Rapid99
Rapid99
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4078471#Comment_4078471
You aren't punished for stacking them though. Diminishing doesn't affect all perks, only certain ones. You can still bring popular builds like Pain Res, Turn Back the Clock, Surge, and DMS and it's unaffected. On the survivor side if you bring Deja Vu and someone else brings Prove Thyself, there's a speed nerf. Or if you bring Deja Vu and Resi. So why should there just be random buffs to perks that weren't affected by this system when most gen speed perks essentially got nerfed but most slowdown ones didn't?
I am talking about perks like COB and Overcharge that require stacking to be meaningful yet get punished for it.
Just saying "use the meta options" isn't actually a retort that's not my point. If that's the case never change anything because people can just use the meta options lol. I'm talking about helping out the gen perks that have been mostly terrible since the 3 gen meta nerfs.
I didn't say "buff pain res".
Eruption is still a detriment to use ever since the regression events changes. COB and Overcharge have mostly been terrible ever since 3 gen nerfs (even when COB went up to 150% it changed hardly anything) and the main way to use COB is by stacking it with something like overcharge.
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@cogsturning said:
Gen regression perks were almost entirely unaffected by diminishing. Gen perks on the survivor side got more heavily nerfed by diminishing than killer ones.
I mean they're not entirely unaffected though? They are still hit by diminishing returns.
The point I'm making is that they've already been nerfed to hell from the old 3 gen meta to the point of needing to be stacked to get value out of regression perks, then they did the regression events change where a gen can only be hit with an regression event like 8 times iirc, and NOW it's diminishing returns on top of all that.
So they've gotten worse and worse and worse, while still being individually horrid perks. They are bad on their own and require stacking to get meaningful value but now you get punished for stacking them with diminishing returns, unless you just play the same old meta of gen blocking with pain res dms.
It's essentially a flat nerf to something that didn't need it and is reliant on stacking to even be meaningful in the first place.
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Aura customization? Please tell me I can change aura colors I will reinstall the game so fast, I've had to deal with eruption's aura reading being essentially useless for too long with gen and survivor colors both being red.
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@bleep275 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005992#Comment_4005992
if its subjective to some, then its not objective at all..so plz…no more hyperbole. Its great for story telling, poetry, and manipulation. Not real discussion. And yes...I loved the changes as killer because it gave me a massive buff for a playstyle that i have already been playing for several years prior to the PTB.
Things that ARE objective:
2+2=4
Triangles have 3 sides
A kilogram is 1000 grams.
Things that are NOT objective:
Anyone's opinion ever.
Ok fine let me rephrase:
It's not objective, and it is subjective. If you liked the changes, you do not believe in wanting a "fair game" because the changes objectively (and yes this part actually is objective) they were affecting things that they were not intended to affect and were never the problem.
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@bleep275 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005977#Comment_4005977
don't use "Objectively" for your opinion. Hyperbole has already ruined most of the English language.
It's only subjective to those who are disingenuous in wanting a "fair game" like people claim, because if you want an actual fair game, there is zero chance you looked at those changes and claimed them to be fair for both sides. It was entirely inarguable that the changes were simply entirely lobsided. When a set of changes intended for one purpose, extends far beyond that one purpose, yes… they are in fact horrid changes that shouldn't have gone through.
That doesn't mean anti-tunnel or anti-slug mechanics in general are a bad thing, it means the ones they did and tried to implement were horrid.
Hell nor does it mean BHVR isn't incompetent for nerfing things that were nerfed due to the anti-whatever mechanics that didn't get pushed through. But… that's BHVR. I doubt it's "we don't want survivor players" it's "we're dumb". They've showcased that clearly, this is like what… the 10th massively controversial decision they've made in the past 2-3 months with their game?
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@Alicia_Tried6041 said:
They scrapped anti slug and tunnel as well. Clearly they favor killers. Why even hook when you can down 4 survivors and bypass 8 hook states? The crybabies got there way and now solo q remains almost unplayable. If this keeps on we're going to have to start talking survivor buffs to keep up with the killers because as is its pretty unfair even for skilled players (p100s)
It's so funny people bring up them scrapping the anti slug and tunnel like it's some "we hate survivors!" thing, as if those changes weren't objectively horrid. They were changes that affected beyond what they were intended to affect.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991395#Comment_3991395
If you truly think this is a requirement, you can continue to tunnel to your heart's content. It just means that all the years of talking about "incentivizing spreading hooks" and "buff regression" were just flat out lies the whole time. Now that they've done all of that, you still want to just tunnel away.
Personally, any time I see someone say that "tunneling is necessary" it's because they can't adapt to using any other strategies and have boosted themselves to an MMR that is far above their skill level.
The killer role has largely been "choose your difficulty" for a long time now, it's just that people deliberately choose easy wins (until they hit an MMR where they can't anymore) instead of correctly skill matched games. You kill 60% of the survivors either way, but hard tunneling every game just means you're going to sweat for it.
I literally don't tunnel unless absolutely necessary. No one said I want to tunnel? Nothing in that reply even insinuates that, I was explaining how it is ignorant to say "well just don't tunnel" because sometimes you do not have a choice. We don't even know the numbers on the multihooking stuff and they haven't buffed regression perks.
But it is an objective truth. Yes, sometimes you HAVE to tunnel if you want a chance to win. If they make the multihooking buffs good enough numbers to where that is no longer the case? Great! If they dont? You'll just have the problem where when you need to tunnel but you can't due to the anti-tunneling changes and then you have zero option on actually winning in that scenario because the incentives to multihook aren't good enough.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
Almost all of these, including the killer buffs, are entirely within the killers control as to if they even come into play.
If you're complaining about all of the anti tunnel effects, then don't tunnel, and elusive guarantees they can't come into play.
This is being purposefully ignorant to the fact that sometimes tunneling is a literal requirement to be able to win lol. There's a reason they're having to buff multihooking in the same breath as introducing anti-tunnel because multihooking is a literal detriment to do.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3978273#Comment_3978273
You're right, it's not comparable. Slugging is way worse. At least when there's some mist for a few seconds the killer can still act and make choices. But if you want to talk about disengaging tactics, there's this one very common one that is still going unaddressed. Meanwhile, Fog Vials have been out for two weeks and are getting nerfed because killers are crying about it.
And it is a form of counterplay. I'm using it to win chases by making turns they're not predicting. Not everyone wants to run in a circle until they get whacked. This is a potential way to end a chase differently.
I think you've misunderstood my entire point. I don't care about fog vials, I care that their existence removed the entire counterplay to items, that being franklin's. That is not comparable to slugging existing, because slugging still has counterplay.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3978243#Comment_3978243
And that only applies to the killer perspective? It's cool for a killer to slug and run?
That's a conclusion you reached on your own. Nowhere did I say that (it's also not even remotely comparable??? idk what you tried here).
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3978007#Comment_3978007
You don't like it so no one should have it?
I don't think something should exist in the game if it actively causes the removal of counterplay to an entire section of survivor gameplay for the killer side… yes.
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Most anti-heal perks are god awful, which is the problem and why franklin's is the only real counter.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3978009#Comment_3978009
Then feel free to use Franklins in every game if they revert it. Totally worth running it over an actual good Perk, trust me!
I did use it before it got changed. Constantly. And it worked GREAT for me lmfao.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3978007#Comment_3978007
They could have just kept franklins as it was. It really makes no sense why they removed it. And I guess you got what you wanted fog vials won‘t be used anymore either way.
I don't "get what I want" because franklin's is still dead. They couldn't keep franklin's because they couldn't figure out how to make it work with items that use a cooldown instead of charges. That's the problem.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3978009#Comment_3978009
Franklin's was only halfway decent at countering medkits in particular, it's never actually been a good overall-item counter.
A halfway decent counter is still better than… no counter at all.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I mean, they could, if they want to. But I dont think many people would actually care, since it is not like Franklins was a popular or good Perk to begin with. They can reverse it and it would not really increase in usage.
Franklin's was the only counterplay killers had to items lol.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3977933#Comment_3977933
Clown isn‘t fun, plague isn‘t, blight isn’t … I could continue! Do they get nerfed nope. Clown got even buffed to be even more miserable.
Fog vials also are super easy to deal with. If you have problems dealing with them it‘s a skill issue.
No one said anything about problems dealing with them. They are an obnoxious item that also caused the only counterplay to items to get removed because the cooldown system physically doesn't work with franklin's lmfao. So yes, I'd rather not have them in the game at all.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3977950#Comment_3977950
Most of the time I encounter a Fog Vial as killer it's more like "Oh no, anyway!", and then I continue the chase unimpeded.
Yes. I never said they were strong, I said they're just annoying. Which is my problem with them, it's just an obnoxious item. Plus you can't even make it any better because visually / audibly impaired people wouldn't be able to play the game and it would make them broken.
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@Caiman said:
Straight-up telling us we didn't deserve to know about the killswitch is disgusting. They don't respect their playerbase at all.
It also doesn't even make sense. Do they think we would see the big red ! over something and it being disabled and we would just be like "oh yea, everything is working as per usual" like???
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Fog vials never should've even made it in. It's not a fun item to play against.
Like other items when they happen it's like "ah that sucks, but ay it is what it is". With fog vials… it's just genuinely annoying. I don't feel like "oh it is what it is" I feel like "oh this is just not enjoyable and just obnoxious to be playing into".
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@Langweilig said:
Wow you are going to make fog vials useless. Guess fun isn‘t allowed in this game.
If by fun you mean just really obnoxious to play against, but not in a like "ou they got me with that item" way but more like "*groan* this is just annoying" way, then sure. It's real fun!
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Good changes but it really shouldn't need community wide bashing of the dev's amateur hour for things like this come about. This NEEDS to be prevented in the future entirely for not just bug related issues, but everything in general. Also while we're on the topic of fog vials and items… revert franklin's.
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It's the fact it wasn't supposed to be a map. There was no map on the roadmap with this chapter, they literally said "this is not a new map and it's just here to show off the new tile". So how on god's green earth they reached the conclusion to put in a literal TESTING ZONE, as an official map into the game is just… this dev team genuinely just cannot get anything right.
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@Coordi said:
Merciless Storm wasn't kill switched to my knowledge, as it wasn't game breaking. Nemesis abuse of PWYF was critical enough that the team moved forward with the kill switch. The criteria isn't my call or expertise; I'm communicating with what information I have rather than ignoring the thread altogether. I can and have takem the feedback to the team, however, that more player facing information on the Kill Switch and criteria is wanted.
But that's the problem. It's like this dev team is playing a different game. On what planet is gens getting 99'd to 0 in seconds or INFINITE TOOLBOXES less gamebreaking than… "fast nemesis" ???? The "criteria" for a killswitch is completely arbitrary.
It's illogical. It makes no sense. Ask anyone who actually plays the game and they'll all tell you the same thing, it makes no sense. Unfortunately you have the job of being the community manager for a game that can't get its act together in year 9, but ay it's not directed towards you. It's directed towards the overall incompetence of a dev team that should know better by now.
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@Coordi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976884#Comment_3976884
Respectfully, considering how long it takes to even exploit the bug, it isn't affecting games enough to meet the criteria. I am not discounting the frustration or feedback about how it is being used. However, until it is gamebreaking, it will not receive a Kill Switch. It is a nuclear option.
It's affecting enough games where people are consistently reporting that most of their matches are filled with streetwise. It is a game breaking bug. Something literally anyone with any amount of time has been saying about it for the past week since people have discovered it.
This isn't "debatable" when the best players of your game are saying "hey this is game breaking and people are exploiting it" and even the casual players are saying "hey this is game breaking and people are exploiting it" there's no reason to hold back on killswitch. You guys are treating killswitch like it's some rare valuable thing… It isn't. It's a system YOU created for situations like this. It's game breaking, disable it. There's no excuses.
At the MINIMUM people should be getting banned for it. But you're not doing either. It's a game breaking bug you're letting roam free and on top of that a game breaking bug you're letting people exploit with zero consequences.
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@Coordi said:
Streetwise does not meet the criteria for a Kill Switch. It sucks to have to say that that plainlyt, as the last thing I want to do is minimize player concerns or frustrations. The team is aware, it's being monitored, but it is not breaking the game.
Acting like streetwise isn't a game breaking bug when survivors can give themselves INFINITE TOOLBOXES AND RUN THROUGH GENS is an absolute joke. There's no way you guys are being serious.
Like I said with the above reply… embarrassing.
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It's so funny how this dev team continues to do this to themselves consistently. This is a 9 year old game still getting major updates that break the game entirely, still introducing horrific perk designs (conviction), refusing to disable GAME BREAKING perk exploits and not even at the very least banning the people very blatantly abusing it (sorry you don't do the streetwise bug by accident, you just don't).
Hell, they didn't even load up a SINGLE game of dbd to test basically anything, which would've led them to see the massive pole that's just in the loading screen.
It's embarrassing. That's all it is, it's just embarrassing. There is no defense for a game this old, still getting handled this way. We're not in the early stages anymore, this is an established title for a near decade now. Basic testing of the game (or at least booting up literally ONE match) and disabling game breaking problems, is the bare minimum.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976540#Comment_3976540
I'm having flashbacks to For The People + Buckle Up.
Yep, except instead of 2 survivors doing it! Now it get to just be literally one survivor doing FTP + Buckle up on themselves! :D
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It's a perk that punishes killers for literally just… playing the game. You hit someone that was vaulting a window? Oh too bad they get to get away because of it!
You spent some time putting pressure on a survivor you know is nearby, that could or could not be going for a save? Not even slugging? Oh too bad they get to get away because of it!
It's quite frankly an embarrassing perk design and even more embarrassing that it made it to live servers.
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@Trappler said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972721#Comment_3972721
… Okay I don't think I can ever have a constructive discussion with someone who unironically says that there was ever any version of map that could ever be considered close to overpowered so I'll just say I hope you have a great day.
I didn't mean overpowered maps, I said overpowered medkits, and then the rest of the items listed because those are the only other items that franklin's benefits against. Franklin's doesn't do anything against toolboxes unless it's the first chase of the game. Because by the time you get to someone who has a toolbox later in the match, they've already used it unless they're running some built to last build which ay congrats I guess.
@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972717#Comment_3972717
Are you calling a brown med kit with brown add-ons broken?
If we're going to sit here and act like most of the time survivors are bringing in the weakest version of an item possible then we're being disingenuous and I will just stop the discussion with you.
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@Trappler said:
Or perhaps because they want to make other items and chests more viable and because it's an incredibly problematic perk that overwhelmingly harms solo-Q? I understand where you are coming from but it's a healthy change to encourage survivors to bring other items and go for chests as well as encourage killers to bring anti-healing perks if they are concerned instead of one perk that just potentially deletes survivors builds for free. I mean really it would be silly if the devs released a perk that said do a gen to remove killer power.
Franklin's was the only counterplay to overpowered medkits, flashlights, maps, keys, etc etc. Anti-healing perks do NOT do that as well.
They aren't comparable to turning off the killer power. Make certain items not busted and then we can have the conversation of franklin's being problematic until then, you're just wrong.
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@MDRSan said:
Maybe they just didn't want killers to be able to completely negate the value of bringing an item for the low, low cost of a perk and a single M1 strike they were going to do anyway. People still have to go back for it if they want it back.
I can use this same logic???
Do you think bringing in a broken item takes effort? Do you think it takes skill to do that?????? Like what, brother?
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It's ridiculous, full stop. Completely murdering the only perk that let killers counter strong items is just blatantly ridiculous. They had all the feedback in the world but instead of fixing it, they'd rather change it so they can implement new item cooldown mechanic that not a single soul asked for.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966705#Comment_3966705
I've been seeing Hawkins a ton this past week. I prefer The Game, but I'll take any indoor levels I can get my mitts on these days.
Like trust me I don't mind getting the map but it's like… damn, again? During this whole event it's been by FAR my most played map and shattered square.
So it's either I'm getting the killer sided indoor map with hawkins, or the map the size of a country with shattered square.
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No but I've been on the stranger things map like 500 times.
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This post just screams of "I just watched the most recent Scott Jund video"
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I love psych. Just recently rewatched the whole thing.
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@jedimaster505 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964333#Comment_3964333
lol ... resurgence is nowhere near busted. it's just at most 2 fast heals off hook assuming killer has no anti heal perks. what it does is make tunneling more difficult and since too many killers rely on that low skill cheese tactics to inflate their real MMR, they hate it
pain res is also overrated. let go of gen right before hook and lose a wee bit of progress. only works against low MMR survivors. but since most players copy content creators we end up with this braindead pain res/healing "meta" that isn't even real, just a snoozefest to go against
It makes healing off hook entirely inconsequential. Shaving off an entire 12 seconds off of your healing is busted yes. And the only anti heal perks that even stop it are gift of pain and leverage so again… dedicating half of my perk slots to counter one perk. It's not about tunneling being countered, it's about the complete lack of time that survivors need to waste to heal. Healing is meant to be a natural slowdown and resurgence removes that entirely.
Also you say pain res is overrated. It's not overrated, the problem is it's the ONLY gen regression perk worth even rating lmfao. Every other gen regression perk is god awful.
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I'm not sure how Sadako isn't macro heavy. She has zero chase power and her entire shtick revolves around managing the 1v4 and less about 1v1's. It's entirely based on managing condemned, managing TV's, managing who has a tape. That is easily as much macro as the people that are listed as "macro heavy".
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@BoonRainDice said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964117#Comment_3964117
Yes, this would make more sence. Also, people who claim healing meta… they only buffed botany perk that isn't crazy imo. I don't even see that perk.
No it's survivors realizing that resurgence is actually busted. So then as killer I'm forced to dedicate half of my perks JUST to countering healing off the hook because otherwise, the healing off the hook is entirely inconsequential for survivors.
Also… the overarching issue of every gen regression perk has gotten 100x worse, to the point where only pain res is left as anything useful, but gen progress hasn't gotten any slower for survivors.
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They need to just completely remove this whole standard spawning mechanic and just decrease hunt times to compensate. Guaranteed value even if weaker, is so much better than a killer power that is essentially in the hands of the survivors to just completely disable COUGH COUGH SADAKO COUGH COUGH
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3960983#Comment_3960983
I disagree with that assessment. I don't believe at all that gen regression is required even your alternative example of proxy camping.
The only way gen defense isn't a requirement is if the survivors you go against are so bad that they can't even last like 20 seconds in a chase. It's simple math, if you go against decent survivors who know how to even remotely loop, without gen defense you WILL lose.
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Changes like this do nothing but remove uniqueness from killer builds depending on what killer you play, due to special interactions.
More of just copy and pasting the strong killer build on all your killers I guess? Idk it seems like a pointless "fix", it's not like it was broken or that these killers were just astronomically S tier with things like this.
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There's no universe a human who has even 10 hours on dbd, looks at the franklin's change and goes "Yea this is a buff".
This straight up deletes the only counterplay killers have to strong items in the game.
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Knight is just objectively worse. Hunts are useless, even more than what they already were. You essentially have no power outside of the one scenario they were trying to make weaker… double teams. You are now forced to double team because you waste more time setting up a hunt than survivors will to grab the standard.
The call to arms basekit stuff doesn't matter because… you aren't going to utilize it, you aren't going to go for those long range hunts, since they made them useless.
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3959621#Comment_3959621
This is absolutely feedback I can bring back to the team - both regarding Franklin's and the Jailer.
With regards with the standard spawns, though, I'd be interested to see if the spawn times still feels too quick when the extended times for longer paths is factored in during testing. While it is 4 seconds on the short end for the Jailer and Assassin, this can be extended up to 8 seconds by drawing a longer path.
Brother 8 seconds is nothing. You waste more time setting up the hunt, than survivors will waste running in a circle and grabbing the standard.
It makes hunts objectively weaker when they were already mediocre to begin with. These changes take a B tier killer, borderline C tier if the survivors are even remotely aware of the counterplay. And make him straight up D tier, he's abysmal now. You're forced to cause double teams because hunts do nothing anymore.
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4 second jailer standard spawn, this has to be a prank bro…
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Nerfing knight, an at maximum B tier killer just doesn't make sense. Carnifex standard taking longer to spawn means nothing, you need him for pallets you aren't using him for hunts.
Assassin and jailer standard spawning quicker makes using guards for hunts a pointless action. You already waste more time getting in range and setting up the hunt, than a survivor does just running in a circle with the garbage guard A.I and grabbing the standard, and you're making that quicker. So then in an attempt to make the double team scenario weaker, you're just incentivizing people to do the double team scenario since the only thing the standard spawning quicker does, is make hunts worse, when the knight is off chasing someone else.
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@AdamZ said:
As a knight main myself, im not sure abt the standard stuff, might be fine might be not, since we still dunno the numbers, and bhvr said "during double team scenarios" so it could mean that it only works once u are in the 8m radious of a guard.
As for the carnifex buff, im pretty happy abt it, since there are moments where u only have the carnifex and u need to stop the other survivors from finishing a gen or u need to spread the pressure.
"Where's the buff to let him use carnifex to break a pallet without despawning the other guard who's in the middle of a hunt? Where's the buff to let carnifex apply gen perks when kicking a gen, so that using a guard to kick a gen is actually something worth doing?" i also made a suggestion abt this before and it would be awesome if they implement it.
This killer is buggy enough, I don't trust bhvr to be able to code in standard spawning quicker specifically in the double team scenario. Especially since they didn't even word it any differently all they put was "assassin and jailer standard spawn quicker".
And if that's the case, the whole call to arms basekit stuff won't matter because you won't have a reason to make use of those longer range patrols, since it wastes more time than survivors will just running in a circle and grabbing the standard.
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I don't think you understand the nerfs survivors would be getting hit with if this game was balanced around SWF's lmfao.