RainehDaze
RainehDaze
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312179#Comment_3312179
But it's not indicative of a certain playtime gap?
I have at least P3 on every character. That's 60+ characters, each at P3 or a bit more, which equals a cumulative 180+ prestige levels, realistically 200+. Instead of P3ing everyone, I could have two P100s. But when you face me, the highest prestige I have on my main currently is 15.
One P100 doesn't mean that player necessarily has any more time than someone at half of my personal playtime. Also, if you P1'd everyone before the prestige changes, then you automatically converted that into P3 on everyone. Someone could have P1'd everyone, with on P3 that was instantly converted to a P9, and then they only have 81 prestige levels to make up to get that one P100.
I mean, if I add up the prestige on all my characters, it comes to 24, plus a handful in the 30's-40's from the old prestige system.
So anyone with a P100 character has vastly more playtime than I do.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310105#Comment_3310105
Your math is way wrong though. Let's do the math together.
Some data:
Survivor movement speed: 4.0 m/s
Survivor post hit movement speed duration: 1.8 seconds
Survivor post hit movement speed: 6.0 m/s
Killer movement speed: 4.6 m/s
Killer movement speed while carrying survivor: 3.68 m/s
Killer Terror Radius: 32 meters
Killer hit cooldown: 2.7 seconds
Killer pick up speed: 3 seconds
Killer hook speed: 1.5 seconds
Generator repair speeds: 90 seconds
Average distance to hook: 12 meters
Average human response time: 273 ms (https://humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime)
Average map size: 9850 square meters (~99.25x99.25 meters for a square)
So, let's assume killers and survivors all spawn at opposite ends of the map. The survivors spend the first 20 seconds looking for a generator and the killer spends the first 20 seconds running to the opposite end of the map. With a killer having a 32 meter terror radius, and taking into account movement speeds and human reaction time. if we take the human reaction time and 6x it to account for figuring out the direction the killer is coming from and making sure you can run the opposite direction, the survivor will spot the killer in 1638 ms. To make math simpler let's round it up to 2 second. during this time the killer gets 9.2 meters closer. So now the killer is 22.8 meters away. During this time the survivor runs in the exact opposite direction of the killer.
Remember, no powers, no pallets, no windows, just a straight line. In order for the killer to catch up to the 5 meters (lunge is 6 meters but taking into account human reactions and lag and spinning and such, we say 5) required for lunge distance the killer needs to move 17.8 meters to close the gap. The difference in movement speed between them is .6, this means the killer closes the 17.8 meter gap in 29.66 seconds. The killer then lands a hit.
The survivor then runs in a straight line and the killer is unable to move much for 2.7 seconds. During 1.8 of those seconds the survivor is moving at 6 m/s and for 4 m/s for .9 seconds. This means the survivor gets 14.4 meters way. The killer now has to close a gap of 9 meters for a lunge. It takes the killer 15 seconds to catch up to the survivor and land another hit.
The killer now picks the survivor up taking 5.7 seconds (3 seconds for picking up, and 2.7 seconds for attack cooldown), and they walk to the nearest hook about 12 meters away. This takes 3.25 seconds, the hooking action takes 1.5 seconds.
The time to find this survivor, hit them once, catch up, hit them again, pick them up walk to a hook and hook them took: 29.66 + 15 + 5.7 + 3.25 + 1.5 = 55.11 seconds. This would mean the killer would likely lose 2 gens in the first chase. (just barely reaching the 3rd survivor before it finishes).
It's not about the survivor going 200 meters. You need to factor in survivor movement speed is 4.0 m/s and killer is 4.6 m/s. That means every second the killer gains .6 meters of distance, and they need to get to 6 meters to lunge. This means that a lead of 20 meters doesn't mean the survivor is downed in 4 seconds, it means the survivor is downed in 23.3 seconds. People highly overestimate how fast killers move in relation to survivors. And "Looping" allows you to run a straight line without actually running a straight line. So all you need is a decent sized structure that can't be mind gamed and you get your baseline of 55 seconds of time wasted.
And then DH can add another 20s if it's not baited out somehow. Wonder how overcome compares with the actual numbers, though?
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312015#Comment_3312015
I'm not the best killer, but I've killed enough P100s that I don't see it as a threat anymore.
Unless the entire lobby is P50+, which could be a clue that it's a SWF, I'm not bothered. But even that is going to lose it's predictive power as more survivors climb the prestige ladder.
It's still a bit of an extreme playtime gap, and when there's multiple, I sometimes just don't want to bother, especially if there's already a bunch of toolboxes and the like out.
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i mean if you look past the random assemblage of body parts... part...?
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I can't really do five, since I don't think I've even played that many Killers consistently (and I wouldn't say Spirit belongs in the list so long as she's in a weird janky audio-cue land that hands all the info over to the other side unless you use the one addon that helps if someone understands stealth), but I'd say Wesker is top for best designed.
Honourable mention to Pinhead, no matter how questionable the numbers on the chains are given how annoying they are to land.
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When I see multiple people with more prestige on one character than I have total (possibly by 3-4x, I don't think I have more than 25 spread out), I'm possibly going to bounce. Maybe they're just really persistent and not that great, or maybe matchmaking's just desperate.
If I actually remember prestige by the time we're in the game, I'd probably be trying to not chase them, though.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311982#Comment_3311982
Huh. I must be going blind in my old age. Let me check the notes again.
EDIT: Nope, still not seeing it.
Because it was missed from the patch notes. There's a few posts here and there in the PTB forum covering it.
it now also gives a survivor picked up from dying a 10% haste for 10 seconds.
Seems to be the change made
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/360327/buckle-up
Where are you seeing changes to Buckle Up?
PTB, since the new icons overlapped a lot with its role.
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@jajay119 said:
One of the things mentioned in the OP that I always notice is very true is the factor of margin for error. Whilst I don't pay him too much attention, I did see a video once by Otz where he stated that things can turn on a dime due to margin of error i.e. Survivors have a small room for error whereas a killer can have an absolutely terrible match for the most part, but pull it back really quickly in the end game. Whereas survivors can do really well wall match, get the gens done and get the doors powered only to all be hooked and sacrificed in the end game. I don't really have a major point with this, it's just an observation I've noticed a lot recently and it ties in well with the OP lol.
It's the way hookstates and downs work. Individually, Survivors don't have a huge amount of room for error--make one too many mistakes in succession, you're out. And if all of those errors compound at once, then the snowball starts. And it doesn't matter how much of the match has gone, unless people are willing to just leave someone to die and scarper--altruism once the gates are powered can be one of the weirdest swings in the game. Plus, if the errors happen towards the end, the map is likely to be resource-low and that's a short snowball.
On the flip side, the Killer can make one error in decision making (overcommitting to the wrong chase), and that's the game lost in a single action. It doesn't have to compound. Which really exacerbates the general stress of playing Killer from never having a breather in the match.
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@Mockingjay_S451 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310719#Comment_3310719
So your argument is it should be 3 kills instead of 4 because “survivors complain so much about killers slugging for the 4k.”
Here is an idea, maybe don’t slug for the 4k? If you can’t get a 4K without slugging, maybe you shouldn’t be earning an adept?
Because hatch RNG is so much a measure of your player ability, and not just 'who does it spawn closer to after hooking the third Survivor for the last time', right?
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5% haste really isn't enough, nor does it even slightly make up for coming to a dead halt.
I think the idea is workable (if the AI was changed to favour the shortest path and not follow the Survivor's footsteps like a moron), but if you want to incentivise longer paths, a tiny bit of haste isn't good.
"My power is unusable if standing somewhere vaguely close to a wall" is also still a massive issue.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310952#Comment_3310952
Someone got horseyed one too many times...
I'll never forgive the RCPD library.
Still, Boil Over is a terrible conceptual thing. It's either just really annoying (which is bad design and ineffectual), or it ramps up to being potentially overpowering (especially when a team can co-ordinate to space hooks apart) and makes sure the game isn't fun for anyone (as it's pretty much forced to be a slugfest). It doesn't need buffing, it needs being hit over the head with a shovel a couple more times.
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Boil Over is a terrible perk and it should remain as nerfed as humanly possible. Something that has be annoying as essentially its entire design principle should be made as much of a dead space as can be managed, since excising the code entirely, deleting all the art assets, and never speaking of it again won't happen.
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@Seraphor said:
PlayStation player here who finished the Rift late November.
I have no problem with them extending the Rift but it doesn't seem necessary to me. If I could complete it that fast with technical issues (and I don't play all that much either, for example I never reach Iri rank on either role, maybe a couple hours about 5 days a week) I don't think anyone else has much of an excuse.
Just focus on challenges, complete every challenge on every tome page, and you'll have it done in a few days. The event tomes are great for this because the challenges are so easy, the two Halloween tome pages got me most of the way, and you can finish the bone chill pages now to get a similar bonus.
"Several hours five days a week" is 'all that much' by most standards.
That's kind of the point of the Rift (to get that sort of playtime and diligence out of people), but pretending that another day of playtime every two weeks isn't long spent on a single game is really underestimating it.
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@[Deleted User] said:
She'll lose quite a bit of variety. On the one hand, it's great because we're closer to people actually needing to know how to play Nurse to do well on Nurse. But we're going to be seeing a whole lot of The Build (CoB/Eruption/Pain Res) on Nurse until they address the slowdown meta, so players will still be able to fail upwards with her to a degree.
As an aside, every strong high skill cap killer should be getting the Nurse treatment. Kill the busted add ons so players can't crutch on them in lieu of learning the killer's mechanics. That goes for Blight with, well, most of his good add ons, and Spirit with MDR/Cherry Blossom.
I always wonder what you're supposed to do to fix Spirit's weird combo. DCB has to stay, since it's basically her usability add-on for anyone who doesn't have good hearing (or audio), but MDR kind of shows how all her other addons that don't just buff numbers are kind of pointless in the first place (pallet breaking is a funny meme one, but some of the others...)
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Nah, wiggle checks should never have had a progress bonus. Turning a usability feature into a potential buff (and making it hard for the Killer to accurately judge how far they can carry someone as that started varying) was always the worst part of it, I'm glad it's no longer affecting carry distance.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309514#Comment_3309514
Throw the game because you didn’t tunnel? I win most of my games without tunneling. 🤷🏻♂️
deliberately not hooking someone when circumstances have made them the only person to be hooked? That's throwing.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309478#Comment_3309478
It’s most definitely a decision. How is it not? “Do I want to lose 25% of my bonus bloodpoints? Or do I want to hook this dude again?” Which is more important to you?
It’s not a punishment. It would be a punishment if you lost 25% of your normal BP gain. This is strictly incentive based hook patterns.
"Do I throw the game and get less BP, or do I hook the guy and get less BP?" It's lose-lose either way if slugging isn't to your advantage. Which is why it's a punishment, because you put the Killer in a choice where they lose either way.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309411#Comment_3309411
You still didn’t answer my question. How are you being punished if you are making the decision to opt out of extra BP, an incentive to NOT hook the same person twice in a row? By all means, do it, but you lose out on potential 25% bonus.
Some people don’t care about BP, and they can still tunnel. People that do care, such as myself will go out of their way to get max bonus BP.
"If you are making the decision" is the exact point in question. It's not always a decision.
(Also, people can be given nice things without pairing the incentive with a punishment)
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309329#Comment_3309329
How are you getting punished because you’re opting out of bonus blood points by making the conscious decision to tunnel? You don’t have to avoid them, put them down and leave them slugged if you want.
because your assumption is "any time someone hooks the same person twice in the row, it's a conscious decision to tunnel". Never mind the obvious case where sometimes the Killer can't find anyone else, people are able to look identical if they so choose.
And I don't think most players would take being slugged but not hooked again as a huge improvement.
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@HugTechLover said:
Give BBQ the blood point bonus back, but if any survivor is hooked twice in a row, you lose a permanent token.
Can’t say it would work for all tunnelers, but it would help.
"You get outright punished if you don't avoid someone like the plague, no matter how stupid they are about it" is not a good design choice.
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I miss old BBQ. It actually gave a reason to not tunnel. And some other goal in a game aside from killing people as fast as possible.
I really don't get the attitude of "well you probably don't need to tunnel, so why are you doing it?" Like... what is with the constant refrain of "you should play in a way that makes it harder for yourself just to be nice"? Nobody's being nice to me on the other side. <_>
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The sheer number of wall holes is a bit of silliness.
Porous walls are just plain terrible. Only the Killer tends to suffer (unless it's shooty harpoon gun man), but they're just... weird?
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@hiken said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3308469#Comment_3308469
try breaking a 3 gen with a solo group agaisnt a decent killer, good luck, your arguments are fantasy not the reality, there is a difference.
"A killer should be unable to patrol 3 nearby generators because solo queue with no game awareness or information can be absolute potato" is not a point to balance around. If the solo queue is that bad and that disorganised that they can't win against minimal regression, then they deserve to lose. Again, do not change the map generation to try and fix how Knight and meta perks are currently interacting.
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@hiken said:
i love how people dont read and keep on not reading. im not talking about survivors creating a 3 gen because being dumb, im talking about RNG creating A 3 GEN FOR FREE FROM THE GET GO, when the killer sees his 3 gen and will guard it the hole game for a very long ass game were nothing can be done with the current meta, is wrong, poorly designed and MUST be adressed.
tell me how your dumb suggestions like using deja vu is gonna change that, or changing the meta could when literally there will always be perks to regress gens and camp them with certain killers will make it a Nightmare like the Knight, Doc, artist, and to lesser extent huntress and plague
Without the ability to stop people from working on the 3-gen for nearly 30s (and add fast regression at the same time) every time someone goes down, it doesn't matter. It's only this combination that turns it into oppressive against four survivors; with any other set of regression perks--even triggering Jolt smack bang in the middle--a group of four Survivors can break the 3-gen setup.
Ergo, your conclusion is false. The map design doesn't need to change because a Killer might hold a 3-gen without these perks against a bad group, or if someone goes down. If anything, the problem most maps have is that they're too big and a big chunk of Killers can't effectively patrol gens or get anywhere in a reasonable time; fixing that would actually push gens together. And on smaller maps, they literally can't be further apart (especially those with more static features like Dead Dawg) because the map doesn't have space to sprinkle gens more tiles apart.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3307883#Comment_3307883
Actually you have it backwards, the fundamental game has too many issues and needs to be addressed first before perks come into play. The problem is, if both sides had 0 perks, then the survivors will win most of the time because gen regression and 3-genning is basically required for the killer to stand a chance.
Even if you look at it the other way round, you don't change game design to balance out the effect of perks. So, in this instance, you obviously don't change map spawns to spread out generators so that Knight+genkicking can't hold a three gen, because then you're making the game design an even bigger problem.
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@TWS001 said:
Survivors 3 genning themselves is entirely the survivors fault, and Deja Vu can help against that.
What is being talked about here is when from the start of the game a killer (very often The Knight, but not always), sits in an area probably no bigger than 10% of the entire map that contains 3 generators and refuses to leave it for anything. Deja Vu won't help you in this situation! The game will end after an hour when the lobby auto closes, or when the survivors get so bored that they simply can't be bothered any more, normally around the 45 minute mark, unless they are super masochistic!
It's happening more and more by the day and together with the awful servers right now in the UK, the game isn't fun for anyone here at the moment.
And the problem is the perk and character interactions that can fuel this.
Not 'gens are close enough together a 3-gen can exist'. Trying to change the maps to 'solve' a particular interaction is going to cause far more problems than it fixes.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3307883#Comment_3307883
I think OP didnt complain about 3 Gens that caused by survivors, but Killers that just stay at 3 Gens to force 3 Gens. This is why as Trapper main, I want alot of buff for him but starts with all traps should not be a thing.
To OP. I dont think Devs will ever do anything, but something something basekit. For now the only thing you can beat Knight 3 Gens is 4 Potential Energy, quietly move to one of 3 Gens, instantly slam 80 charges on it.
Think about it, they always make Killer's power/perks and Survvior's perks that counter each other.
Feng's Technician counter hard Doctor's skill check.
Twin's Hoarder counter Elodie's Appraisal.
Adam's Diversion to create scratch mark against Spirit.
I bet Devs knew too well that Knight is good at 3 Gens, and give Vitto Potential Energy
Eruption just add more salt onto it.
See, the part I was being snarky about was the suggestion that 3 gens should never be close to prevent 3 gens from even being possible.
People are way too keen to suggest massive changes to map gen that would make far more problems and always backfire by harming the people not using all the regression perks, rather than addressing the immediate cause of 'people being able to hold a 3 gen against up to 4 survivors for a whole match'. Big sweeping changes that aren't thought through are exasperating.
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Ah yes, all gens should be super far apart instead of addressing perk balance. This is a well thought out and not at all hasty plan that completely misses how maps with spread-out gens like that because of size already penalise low-movement Killers a ton.
And now you want to arbitrarily space them out further.
Haha, no.
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@TWS001 said:
It's an absolute embarrassment that servers have been left like this for 5 days now in the UK. If we have to join a server in Spain or something then great. Switch the London server off! I get the office is closed but the past couple of years with all the working from home that's gone on, surely a short term fix can be performed?
The twitter account can tweet nonsense out every day, but a proper statement on the main page, not a two line reply buried in a thread somewhere that hardly anyone can see, isn't hard to do. If it can't be fixed until next week at least put out a message saying so.
It is honestly baffling that an always online game doesn't have the ability to have someone just... do basic server admin for overtime or holiday pay or something. Is 'the game is barely playable to the point people aren't playing in some regions' not enough???
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I hate all the twisty halls and doors on one side of it. Add in "what is a straight line to move in" and I don't really care about balance, it's just really annoying to move through.
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@Heytherebigguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3307403#Comment_3307403
You get what you're cooking, if he's playing in an annoying way to ruin someones day he deserves to be known as such.
And the difference between accuracy, salt, and malice is nonexistent. It's the sort of thing that should just get your ability to post on other people's profiles suspended.
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Good grief, the number of people in that screenshot going to someone's profile just to complain. Why you can get away with littering people's profile with permanent negativity...
Also, part of the player drop right now is it's kind of unplayable in some areas because of server stuff and people being busy with other holiday bits.
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It's a server somewhere in the UK, specifically, but because nobody's in the office for the holidays... uh, they apparently don't have any way to A) reboot it, or B) shut them down until the problem is fixed.
which i must say, is not great for an always-online game. nobody even wants the damn server fixed right now, specifically, just to not load into rubber band hell during a bloodrush and holiday period. "Your online game is unplayable during the holiday period because nobody is available at extra cost to fix it during the holiday period" is awful timing.
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@SmarulKusia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304785#Comment_3304785
But they do, they impact how easy or hard sometimes looping can be by how the addons change the powers of the killer. Perks are literally there as an addition to what you don't have - they are meant to be used to help tailor to a certain playstyle or to cover for weaknesses.
Addons don't fundamentally change how a Killer interacts with loops (aside from Freddie). A Killer with no anti-loop still has no anti-loop, and unmindgameable pallets don't change at all.
And what I said is that having to use perks to operate around loops at all is bad gameplay and balance, because you wind up with some Killers having to sacrifice perk slots to compete effectively, and others... being able to run what they want. Or fun perks, rather than "I stun less."
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Any chance you're on UK servers? There's issues there.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
Weird. My experience hasn't been anything different. I definitely noticed some players had a near-constant red ping but I myself hardly noticed anything.
EU-West, by the by.
If it happens, you'll know because everyone gets hit by it.
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There's a very dodgy server somewhere in the UK area (or EU as a whole) and it's unplayable.
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@JayRRivera01 said:
Since the original Pinhead from the 1987 movie Hellraiser is a killer in this game, I wonder if the people behind Dead by Daylight will add a new skin for Pinhead from the 2022 Hellraiser reboot.
I think it would be an epic idea, to have a male and female Pinhead to choose from.
What do you all think?
I think it's a terrible idea and that movie is an abomination that should be cast down into the fiery pit from whence it came.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305745#Comment_3305745
Not really, its just the rest of the perks don't have as much of an impact nowadays.
Back in the day when maps in general were much larger, had more pallets, and healing was faster. Killers opted for perks to deal with those better. Perks like Nurses Calling, Brutal Strength, Whispers, Enduring, NOED, and more were used over gen regression simply because they didn't have many options for gen regression. Over the years they've nerfed healing, looping and made maps brighter with less tall grass making it harder to hide. Perks that covered these just didn't become as useful as new options for gen regression came out.
From what it looks like, the devs see this as well and I think they might be trying to push the game into a more info perk based meta by making gen regression not needed as much (increased gen times). All of the current perks in the gen kick meta also give some form of information. The most recent killers as well have all brought pretty strong perks to locate Survivors, if we look at just the last 4, they all have very solid options. Sadako brought Floods of Rage, Dredge brought Darkness Revealed, Wesker brought Awakened Awareness, and Knight brought Nowhere to Hide.
Its been a long time since the meta wasn't just some form of gen regression. We're in an era where its probably the least needed in the history of DbD. I really hope we can get something else. A true meta shake up
OTOH, at the same time, the game has moved in a direction where trying to slow healing doesn't return the investment. 16s heals are almost a myth; the bloodweb changes mean there's almost no reason to not have a medkit (or a toolbox with all its problems) of some kind, and Circle of Healing continues to provide its buff and free self-heals. If healing can be limited (going by the recent tournament), suddenly sloppy butcher comes out once again because now it does have an effect on increasing risk or slowing the game down.
Aura Reading slips into its own strange boat. For one, Distortion can just turn if off, but on the other, it's often better to use an add-on than bring an aura perk. Then we have durations that are set with the existence of Lethal Pursuer in mind, and let's not pretend that they didn't get way less attractive when BBQ stopped having a BP bonus. Removing incentive to spread hooks and bring an aura perk (and a built-in goal aside from win) definitely hasn't helped the health of the game or meta.
chase perks are just a forgotten middle child of only occasionally providing enough time benefit to be worth it.
(and all this aside, apart from the healing times, the comical potential variability in how fast a gen is done is not helping matters for either side)
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Oh, and I don't think it helps that the "More BP for me as a Survivor" perk is also a "do gens faster" perk.
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305785#Comment_3305785
It's complete luck whether you end up on a normal server or a server where everyone has unplayable, rubberbanding lag all game.
I'm enjoying the bloodrush coinciding with 'the game doesn't want to be played'.
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@RaccoonInATrenchCoat said:
If you had two out, with two to go, and kills ACTUALLY mattered to you for some ungodly reason, you could've dropped chase when the survivor clearly showed they were going to play like this, and find the other one possibly in a worse scenario.
Instead, you focused, probably didn't do many mindgames, just kicked every single one instantly, and then lost then came here to complain.
Yes, you'll lose some, sometime slowdown feels necessary, and it is, but there's no need for four.
I usually run just pop, or maybe pain res, and then three chase perks and normally end the game with 9 or 10 hooks, 2-3 kills.
Just accept you won't 4k everytime, realistically you should be 4king less then ~60% of the time, even if you're fairly good.
Except kills didn't matter. If they mattered, I wouldn't have been running four aura perks in the first place. It's quite straightforward: after running such a build, I didn't see much point to breaking off the chase to go for the other survivor; maybe it would go faster, maybe they would go do the same thing, maybe they'd try and go into a deadzone.
'Complain about the outcome' wasn't why I made the thread, because if you reread the post, you'd see that I won by the usual standards of 3k=win. I made it because a scenario like that shows how much time there can be in the map in pallets alone, and when games are closer or no Survivors get out, hm, no wonder it feels like not bringing slowdown is shooting yourself in the foot. And yeah, four slowdown would be completely overboard, but it just seems to live in an odd spot where you can get maps with enough inherent delay lying around that there's no room for error.
(It was also, as I noted, Lery's--it's not exactly got the most excitingly positioned pallets for most of the map)
Not really? A lot of the direct responses are impressive in a 'I read into this opening what I wanted to and have missed every post made since repeating what the intended point is' way, really shows off how many people just read the initial post in a thread and then skip to writing a response.
I've repeated my point like five times now because of this, since direct replies appear to be the only thing anyone's going to notice. <_>
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305560#Comment_3305560
I mean, this would be a reason why Eruption made it into the game. They clearly did nto playtest it (or at least not enough).
@Topic:
Seriously? People STILL complain about Hyperfocus/Stake Out? I have not seen any of those Perks in my games for weeks. Because they are not good enough to be used.
Hyperfocus/Stake Out was decent when you encountered Wesker in 9 out of 10 games and when those 9 out of 10 games happened on RPD. Killer with big Terror Radius + small Map = many Stake Out-Stacks to protect the Hyperfocus-Stacks.
Whenever you did not end up against Wesker and on RPD, it did not do much. And since both variables are not as common anymore (RPD is back to normal in the rotation, not everyone runs Wesker anymore), you get less value out of Stake Out and utlimately Hyperfocus.
Maybe dont rush to the Forums when you just lost a game and have seen the 1 in 100 chance that someone actually runs this combo...
makes me dread seeing an offering for The Game, though. I don't think I'm going to forget the time I saw someone bring Hyperfocus, Stakeout, a Commodious Toolbox, BNP, that perk to restore charges, and the one that gives a repair speed boost for cleansing hexes, all at the same time. And I'd made the mistake of bringing Ruin. Which they spawned on. <_>
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305486#Comment_3305486
I mean if youve reached a point where theres only 2 survivors left and theres still gens.. i dont think you can lose that unless you yourself make a lot of mistakes
Yes, which is why there was enough time to find out how much time just going between the pallets here could burn.
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304751#Comment_3304751
"But the amount of slowdown people want to bring does seem to have kept creeping gradually upwards."
Because stacking Slowdown is the easiest way to play Killer.
Why even bother thinking about a build which somewhat compliments the power of the Killer, when you can just slap on the same 3 or 4 Slowdown-Perks, which work on every Killer? (Which is easier AND probably more succesful)
If you drag out the game long enough, every Killer can win, because even if the Survivors are better than the Killer, without any ressources, they will go down pretty quickly.
Furthermore, I think the reveal that MMR is based on Kills and Escapes has drifted the game more into "I want to win" than "I want to have fun". So players are more inclined to use the really strong stuff so that they can say "I am at high MMR", even if this does not mean anything, since MMR is not working at all. (at least the currently implemented version)
So players, and I feel especially Killers, since I see more variety in Survivor-Builds latey, just slap on 3-4 Slowdown-Perks which are not that fun to use, but lead to more 4Ks, than just using Perks they like and have fun with and maybe get less 4Ks.
Ah, but what I'd consider a correlation is that it gets more fun as a Killer is when the map has at least been half-stripped of resources, when there are actually deadzones to push people towards and good looping can't automatically extend a chase just by chaining together expendable resources.
But getting to that point requires, well, time.
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Giant maps are just bad all around with how they interact with everything to do with radii and distances.
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Spirit's power is unreactable if she uncloaks on top of you.
Uh, given I've seen people do that, I don't think your dismissal is all that credible.
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@bunnyfengenthusiast said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305124#Comment_3305124
"sufficient timing" is an unrealistic standard. If a killer is at kissing range from you, you cannot react in time to their M1. Again, the only guaranteed situation where DH gives guaranteed value is around a pallet.
How many Killers have a power that can down and comes out with no warning at point blank range? "Huntress and Trickster can throw things at that range" doesn't really count.
Overselling DH as balanced by 'difficulty' and 'skill' just leads back to the stupid balance point where you have a perk that is utterly broken and OP for more players as time goes on, and should therefore be balanced assuming its skill ceiling, not with the idea that 'well maybe, there's all the people who will DH and still into a wall'.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305321#Comment_3305321
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305314#Comment_3305314
yeah you 2 are right, I was in the middle of doing something and just wanted to type out a quick reply. I should of gave it a bit more thought. I'll try to go into a bit more detail now with my 3 mains at the moment. Trickster, Billy and Dredge. Just going to say this now though, it might be sloppy as I'm a bit tired while writing this.
As for how I usually go about games, I tend to brute force it by trying to end chases as fast as possible (I do this for Billy and Trickster) and do what I'd like to call a "30 seconds rule". When I see a Survivor and I start going towards them, I basically check for a few things. If they have a really strong loop with a window and I'm not even close, I drop the chase immediately to find some one else. As Trickster you waste WAY too much time chasing around a high wall loop, and as Billy the majority of strong window loops can be reacted to when you curve. When ever there isn't a strong window loop how ever I try to get either a health state, or a pallet. If I don't get those within 30 seconds I leave them to find the next Survivor (of course if I see an opportunity to get a down or maybe a really strong pallet out of the way, I will deviate away from this to benefit in the late game) . Doing this sudo hit and run style gets rid of pallets at a decent rate where usually getting a down towards the late game becomes much faster. Majority of my games do end up usually have 1 or 2 gens left, or just all gens being done.
As for Dredge I play it much differently. I still do that hit and run playstyle but my aim is to get into Nightfall. The information and mobility you have is pretty strong, especially for how long it lasts. While outside of Nightfall, aim for injuries and hooks to build Nightfall up as fast as possible, try teleporting to the Remnant as much as you can as well to add that extra little bit to Nightfall. While Nightfall is up, think of it as Oni's Demon Mode. You want to get as much value as possible from it, and to do so slugging is usually the way to go. The reason why you want to slug is because you want to save the points that you can get to build towards your next Nightfall. A good perk for this is Knockout, depending on the map even experienced coordinated Survivors can get disoriented, and it becomes a bit harder to call out where exactly they are.
Now of course like any strategy, neither of these strategies are perfect. Medkits absolutely destroy both of these, especially the more there are. How ever I've found a good bit of success while doing so. I'm sorry for the initial post @Unknown2765
And again, I don't think any rules about short chases really apply once you're stuck on a barely-used Leries with two Survivors. Breaking chase with one is just going to take you to the other and the same deal, and unless you're really banking on being lead to the one tile you just cleared, it's not great.
All of which is only tangential to my actual intended point, which is "when there can be enough time on the maps from noninteractive to borderline noninteractive pallets alone to buy several minutes, it's no wonder zero slowdown feels super risky for minimal reward. Not every game is going to have an absolute potato and a flashlight spammer to counter the time pressure.
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@bunnyfengenthusiast said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304827#Comment_3304827
Almost any killer I can think of with powers has counterplay to DH. Blight and Nurse can both blink/rush past and wait it out. Huntress can keep hatchet at the ready, Trickster can toss a knife at the air, etc.
Again, my feeling is that the universality of DH is counterbalanced by its difficulty of use. The only situation where killer has no agency is the one outlined in the OP (DH into pallet) which can be turned into a 50/50 with OP suggestion.
... and with sufficient timing, DH lets you negate the hit of most Killer powers. About the only thing it doesn't any more is Trapper's traps.
"Maybe you can bait it out" only goes so far when some people get really good at using it with perfect timing. Which, again, is bad balance. Things should not be balanced around how hard they are to use. This goes for Dead Hard, this goes for Hyperfocus, it goes for Nurse if anyone can ever actually work out how to go about dealing with her.