PetTheDoggo
PetTheDoggo
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
Being trying (and failing) to do the Houndmaster adept all evening and I'm finding she has a LOT of problems. Most of them on their own aren't major, but the sheer quantity of them is making her kind of frustrating to play.
I was gonna make my own thread to air out my grievances but it seems easier to keep feedback in one place so I hope you don't mind if I just paste over what I was going to say in here.
- Search sensitivity: Getting the cursor to "snap" onto generators while readying the search command is way too difficult. You have to be looking right at the generator, at a specific camera height. Looking at generators above and below you doesn't snap on properly, which makes searching on multi-storey maps difficult.
- Debris: Snug gets stuck on seemingly everything. This is probably my biggest issue right now. I'll send him out and he'll just prematurely stop after brushing up against clutter on the map that doesn't look like it should obstruct him. There are a few places where I'm consistently having trouble getting him to run past or curve around objects:
- The bushes on Badham Preschool.
- Clutter (tables, chairs, flesh piles?) inside the classrooms on Midwich.
- Bushes and pottery on Eyrie of Crows.
- Chasing across elevations: Snug behaves weirdly if you send him to chase across a change in elevation. Sometimes he drops down and chases, but most often he straight up refuses to chase and will stand still after you send him out.
- Grab detection: Snug's chase hitbox feels too narrow. I've had a bunch of instances where he runs straight through the survivor and nothing happens. His detection definitely needs looking at.
- Snug running away from you: After getting a grab, Snug sometimes just takes the survivor in the opposite direction to you, making you walk wayyy off course to land the hit. Don't know what's up with that.
- Pathing: The dog's pathing is seriously bad. He seems to take the most inefficient route possible when you send him out to search. On Family Residence, his routes were so nonsensical I had to keep pausing to watch in utter confusion. Towards the middle of the map I had clear LoS on a generator. There were no obstructions between us and the gen, so you can imagine my confusion when Snug decided to path around some random rocks and bamboo that were completely off the route. You'll have to excuse my poor art skills but this was situation.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Z20C49AXKJR8/image.png
There was a straight line between us and the generator, completely free of any obstructions. And yet when I send Snug out he decided to do this:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/L86OGQVDUUAV/image.png
And by the time he got there, the survivors had left.
Houndmaster has a lot of potential, but right now she's very clunky.
I wouldn't have such an issue with pathing, because you can say he is actually searching for survivors.
Issue is you have to stay on exact path to use the speed boost. Just give it some lingering effect, so I can go straight to the target… -
I would also like at least 1 second lingering for the haste while walking on search path. Kinda annoying when Snug's pathing is simply weird most of the times, so you can't go straight to use speed boost.
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That's low quality bait, or high skill issue
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You think I am going to drop my BP offerings? Hell no.
I will just go tryhard mode whenever someone tries to use map offering.
I wish we could see exactly who used that offering even when offerings are not used by everyone. You bet that would reduce map offerings… -
Basically only build where I kinda had fun is Knotted Rope, Rapid Brutality, STBFL build.
Almost never even try to go for redirection hits (unless survivor is in corner and can't run away).
That massive slowdown whenever she cancels power is highly annoying (often happened to me I used wrong call). I get it on chase, but why is this on search command too?
Give at least 1 second lingering for that haste, the dog is doing zig zag motion, he is not going shortest path to the gen, so it's not really that good neither.
Also for some reason, the dog often doesn't pull survivor to me, they just wait in a spot, or go away from me. -
I hate her visually. I hate her theme. I enjoy the power (dog).
I hate her, because she killed two popular concepts (huntmaster and pirate). She is just hybrid of those and it doesn't make sense to me. Also because of her, we will not get proper version for either of those…
I won't be playing her until she gets some full mask skin. -
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3845468#Comment_3845468
Nooo, it's not just killer power exploits. If you want to care, then do it properly and complain about ANY exploits. But for some reason people like to cherry pick a lot.
Yeah no, nobody in their right mind is that anal about DbD in 2024 unless they've got an extrinsic motive or they're new enough to not be jaded. I certainly don't have the time, energy, nor financial inclination to sit here all day complaining about every little exploit in DbD. People are allowed to choose their talking points, and talking about controller related issues in DbD is enough wasted time for one lifetime considering it only ever bore fruit (directly) once.
And I can see what you mean about Chucky, the 3rd person thing is a fair point in terms of balance, but I doubt they even considered it as a reason when they were patching the 180 out. I've already said what I needed to say about this before. Said about all I needed to in this thread on the first page come to think of it.
I certainly don't have the time, energy, nor financial inclination to sit here all day complaining about every little exploit in DbD.
Nah, but you can make generic post, listing all exploits on both sides asking to remove them. But for some reason almost all posts I see are asking for specific killer, so I guess people just die to it and go complain on forum.
Like there are exploits that should be fixed, but Oni's flick is not one of them imo. Basically exploit needs to be really gamebreaking (without counterplay) and easy to do to be removed.People are allowed to choose their talking points
my talking point is don't be a hypocrite. Quite simple…
I can see what you mean about Chucky, the 3rd person thing is a fair point in terms of balance, but I doubt they even considered it as a reason when they were patching the 180 out
Most likely not, but that fix simply didn't affect his overall performance that much, so it didn't need additional changes with it.
I don't think that would be true for Oni at all. His performance and pickrate would drop and changes to "balance" would simply make it worse for both sides imo.
Main reason is simply they tend to fix techs(exploits) only on killers, where they are doing additional changes anyway. Which are usually new killers. I don't really think Oni needs any changes, so he should be safe. -
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3845461#Comment_3845461
But Oni would not be fine. Oni would be very bad killer, if he was capped at 90 degrees. It would be so easy to avoid on most loops. Funny to say it's not equivalent, simply because it doesn't affect you. I am sure survivors would be fine without all techs, they would just be way more boring.
Hence the care I put into word selection in the title, and my first reply to someone in this thread stating I wouldn't mind if they made the 180 a basekit feature that also works on controller.
I don't care what they do to it. I care more about them fracturing any illusion of consistency they have with regards to addressing killer power exploits, especially when a direct comparison can be made with Chucky now (given that their powers behave very similarly on an end-user level). Nerf it, buff it, add MnK support to console, add a flick stick option for controller that bypasses the intended turn cap…I don't care. I care that BHVR has ignored the topic entirely. For years.
Hence the care I put into word selection in the title, and my first reply to someone in this thread stating I wouldn't mind if they made the 180 a basekit feature that also works on controller.
And I have stated several times, I don't mind that, or M&K support.
I basically don't care as long it doesn't affect the killer directly. Simply don't nerf killer, because of console players.I care more about them fracturing any illusion of consistency they have with regards to addressing killer power exploits, especially when a direct comparison can be made with Chucky now
Nooo, it's not just killer power exploits. If you want to care, then do it properly and complain about ANY exploits. But for some reason people like to cherry pick a lot.
when a direct comparison can be made with Chucky now
I mean, Chucky can still get those downs, because he is 3rd POV killer, so he can look directly into the wall and 90 degrees is enough when you reach corner. That's not true for Oni, because unlike Chucky, you can't see anything in that situation.
Also Chucky has access to his power whole game (low cooldown), has undetectable and 3rd POV is bascially additional power. So how did you say it: "Total false equivalency". -
He is not really OP. His chase is quite limited, if you know what to do against him. Just don't give him any window, or pallet for free.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3845451#Comment_3845451
So several other techs in DBD, whole looping was not intended.
Total false equivalency. DbD wouldn't exist today if looping never took off. I think DbD would be just fine if Oni was updated.
That's not true. PH is same and his flick is better than Oni's.
Better is overselling it, and controller has (or at least had, haven't played him in a long time) a slight flick. And besides, playing him the safe way (zoning & animation locks) is hardly affected by the ability to flick harder. It's not nearly as fundamental as a shift as intended Oni is to 180 Oni.
Better is overselling it
I am pretty sure console can't get even close to real flick on PH. If you do it right it makes it basically unpredictable, because you don't see any animation.
But that is definetly enough, so Oni is not really only killer with high DPI flick.
Total false equivalency. DbD wouldn't exist today if looping never took off. I think DbD would be just fine if Oni was updated.
But Oni would not be fine. Oni would be very bad killer, if he was capped at 90 degrees. It would be so easy to avoid on most loops.
Funny to say it's not equivalent, simply because it doesn't affect you. I am sure survivors would be fine without all techs, they would just be way more boring.
All techs in DBD are not intended features. Your difference is only with how many players fix would affect. -
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3845447#Comment_3845447
Well, just explain to me why so many people ask this about Oni, while it is true for several other killers.
Because Oni's 180 was never an intended feature. That's why they made early strides to patch it out. Same with Chucky's 180, which was patched out quickly (except that patch actually worked). Same with Blight's old J-flick (which in the process of patching they also updated him to be playable on controller, thanks again M&M).
Yes, every killer is more difficult on controller by virtue of controller's input nature, the lack of modern settings, and certain design quirks (like Wesker's sensitivity being artificially slowed during a dash + no single digit frame flicks making followup dashes harder). But not every killer has an exploit that drastically changes the way they play that only works on one input method. Oni is the standout in this regard.
Because Oni's 180 was never an intended feature.
So several other techs in DBD, whole looping was not intended.
Oni is the standout in this regard.
That's not true. PH is same and his flick is better than Oni's.
It's not like Oni is too strong killer, because of it. -
@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3845012#Comment_3845012
10 minutes? How to kill a game step 1
I highly doubt that, if you implement my suggested features to fix extreme situations where DC is required.
If this make players without any self control leave DBD, I am fine with it. Would improve the game for everyone else.
10 minutes is not really that extreme anyway. Dota has 15 minutes, if I remember correctly and you can also get into Low Priority Pool (so you play with other players who DC).Low Priority Pool would be very good feature with low DC penalties.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3845083#Comment_3845083
It doesn't make sense to design killers most of the community cannot ever use anywhere near their full potential, because of a mechanical issue and not a skill issue.
I'm not asking to dumb down any killer or their skill expression. All I'm saying is it should not matter as much as it does for DBD which platform you happen to buy the game on. That disparity is super exaggerated when it comes to running all killers in general, and glaring for the ones you've mentioned.
The devs should want their hard work in designing and tinkering their killers accessable to all of their players. If that means adding M&K support, fine. It that means messing around with the controller sensitivities again and/or more robust setting options for them, fine.
But often they seem to take the route of changing the killers' kit to limit or outright remove these fun little things our PC cousins are so good at finding. Despite it obviously being the easiest and most resource efficient way of doing it I don't agree with that approach, and I can tell you don't either.
So we circle back to the overall problem. How do most of the players run Oni in an engaging and potent way to bring down very good survs? The devs should not accept the answer "you can't" because of your platform. The community certainly ain't accepting that answer, as this post is clearly showing.
On a side note, your forum name is most excellent! 👌 😊
It doesn't make sense to design killers most of the community cannot ever use anywhere near their full potential, because of a mechanical issue and not a skill issue.
Well, Houndmaster is next… Realeasing only killers that are managable for console would get boring quite fast, skill cap will be simply lower than could be.
I'm not asking to dumb down any killer or their skill expression.
Removing flicks and techs in general is exactly that.
If that means adding M&K support, fine. It that means messing around with the controller sensitivities again and/or more robust setting options for them, fine.
As I said, I have 0 issues with helping console in general. Just don't nerf killers, because of console players.
How do most of the players run Oni in an engaging and potent way to bring down very good survs?
Well, just explain to me why so many people ask this about Oni, while it is true for several other killers.
Like really, what else can you do to change killers who require precision, or fast camera movement? I bet survivors would love if killers get autoaim, that's simply not realistic to ever happen.
So best bet would be spam devs asking for M&K support.On a side note, your forum name is most excellent!
Did my best
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Well, those players have to play with someone…
Yesterday we had kinda fun session, where we had full SWF for 2v8. I think lowest was something around 1,5k hours and highest player had 18k hours. Well, of course no killers ware even close to what this would deserve, because it's not realistic with low queue times. -
My best build is Lithe, Finesse, Babysitter, WGLF.
Two perks that let me have good chases, then two altruistic perks to deal with both tunneling and slugging. -
@RFSa09 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3845060#Comment_3845060
I am fine with making 180 possible by whatever means. Your issue is it will make Oni unplayable for most console players, if you make sensitivity too high, because it would be suddenly way more difficult to control.
that´s the main problem
Sounds as problem of a platform, not Oni. Precision and fast camera movements are console issues in general. It's not Oni specific, so I don't see a reason to approach it differently.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3845071#Comment_3845071
You mean the breakdown of the players by platform? We cannot ever know exactly numbers due to the various UEA's and such.
As a rough guide though, for DBD there's more players on the various PlayStations than on Steam for instance, say around 25% of the overall total and about 22% for Steam. Something like that. Next would be those on one of the Xbox machines and then those on Switch. Epic Store isn't too large, neither is Steamdeck, and Stadia never had that many players either before dying out.
The game is out on like 8 different platforms not counting mobile. Any sizable game that is CrossPlay is always mostly console. It just doesn't seem that way sometimes as they're less vocal here and elsewhere, generally less sweaty in mindset, and most of the content creators are on PC. All of the Fog Whisperers are on Steam as well, as is the PTB.
generally less sweaty in mindset
so why should we worry about platform where people are unlikely to use something like this anyway?
Oni is simply one of killers, where console players are always going to be worse at. Nothing new in DBD and there will definetly be more killers like this.
For example I don't think Houndmaster is going to be console friendly unless they are going to add for direction swap same thing as Singularity has (so it auto aims for survivor when you switch). That simply something hard to do for console (camera flicks) -
@iseriaqueen said:
Any and all exploits should be addressed.
I looked this up online and it seems it has been around for years as you said OP. Does this company normally not fix bugs like this? I noticed one in 2v8 also. That is not good if it continues to be ignored.
Well, many of those "exploits" simply make game more fun on both sides.
I would fix only those really broken, which you can't do anything against and are easy to do. I don't think Oni's flick is one of them.
And definetly with your "fix everything", do some on survivors side too…
I think most exploits are good for the game, beacuse it is simply additional thing you can learn and mess with. Basic DBD would get boring very fast to me. -
@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3845001#Comment_3845001
Most of the playerbase is on the consoles, and the answer should never ever be "just get a PC" either.
Until they support M&K for the consoles these kinds of discussions will keep happening. And they've said repeatedly they have no plans to add that support.
Most of the playerbase is on the consoles, and the answer should never ever be "just get a PC" either.
where did you get that information? It really doesn't seem one sided to me and you also can't tell who is console and who is from epic.
Until they support M&K for the consoles these kinds of discussions will keep happening.
as I have said above. There are several killers, where console is worse playing than PC by default. Anything with high precision, or camera movement in general.
Even if you increase Oni's sensitivity by whatever means (devs updated engine, so might be possible now), most console players won't be able to manage it anyway. -
@RFSa09 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3845001#Comment_3845001
dbd was released in 2016 made for old generation consoles, the issue shouldn´t exist at all, and some people can not buy better platforms because everything is mega expensive now, there´s no choice if you only have 1 option, they should remove it somehow or make his turn 180° instead of 90°
I am fine with making 180 possible by whatever means. Your issue is it will make Oni unplayable for most console players, if you make sensitivity too high, because it would be suddenly way more difficult to control.
It seems weird to handicap everyone, because someone got platform with limited controls by default. There are several killers, which are way more difficult for console than PC (often overall less effective) and I don't see a reason, why Oni should be treated differently.
Oni is simply not good killer for console, if you play it, you are going to have worse results than PC player of same level.
That's same for any ranged killer, Nurse, Blight, Billy, Wesker, PH, Dracula. Basically any killer that needs either high precision or fast camera movements. -
@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3844806#Comment_3844806
I'm okay with no DC penalty for the first DC of the day. Then it should increase to 1 minute for the next 2 DCs
I'm okay with 10 minute DC penalty for the first DC of the day, then 1 hour and increase with each DC. Which works if we make some additional changes tho:
- when survivor gives up on hook, it gets replaced by a bot.
- when a survivor DC, everyone else can DC for free and keep their current BP
- create give up system, so you can basically DC for free in specific situation (very long game, lot of slugging, survivors not doing gens etc)
Letting players to DC more is definetly not fix for anything. People DC just for getting outplayed, it's highly pathetic and shouldn't be encouraged.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3844377#Comment_3844377
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3844382#Comment_3844382
Just figured I'd do you both a favor and give you numbers. The chances of any individual self unhooking without any assistance is 11.5264%. If you look at this for the whole team instead, the chances of at least 1 person unhooking would be 38.729024267023%. Have a good day.
Mind to give me how you got to 38%? I wonder where I made mistake.
and if I tried several online calculators, I usually got 47.96% chance -
@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3844401#Comment_3844401
Cannot be done with a controller for this game. Many years back they doubled the sensitivity for them and stated that's the highest it can go for DBD. Combine that with the input delay and dead zones with the joysticks, and no flicks for you. Add in they have no plans to add M&K support for the consoles, and we're very much stuck here.
A strong (and fun) thing can be done with one input device but not the other. This directly controls how effective Oni can be. How do we reconcile this?
Didn't they increase it with Billy rework? I am not console player, so just what I have heard.
A strong (and fun) thing can be done with one input device but not the other. This directly controls how effective Oni can be. How do we reconcile this?
Because of platform has limitations, we make it less fun for everyone else?
I don't really see a reason to nerf a killer, because of platform handicap. That player chose that platform, their issue…There is a crossplay now, so they can always upgrade.
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Hopefully never…
Unless you mean let console flick too, I am fine with that. -
@Autharia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3844377#Comment_3844377
Yes the probability math does add up like that that, but even once you hit the supposed 100% chance and it doesn't hit your math also fails even harder. Cause that's all Probability math is fake hope that a static % changes on repeated use. at the end of the day a 4% is always a 4% on every attempt.
Best example is in WoW there have been people running the Eye raid for 28 years for the mount that's a .1% drop on 11 characters weekly and still haven't seen it drop once. After less then 2 years they should have seen it with your math.It's still simple, is 4% relevant or not? If it is so small as you claim, we can get safely rid of it.
Also funny to compare .1% with 4% and act like it is same. Also % in games, don't always work same. -
@Autharia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3844349#Comment_3844349
It's still just a 4% for all 16. It doesn't change the more attempts tried, only the offerings and up the ante change the chance any. Anyone that plays any RPG with low drop rates will agree unless the game adds bad luck protection that 4% can hit for you the first try or not till the 10000 try.
So who will I trust more, math or your made up story?
Unless you want to prove me wrong with probability calculation, there is 51,3% for this to happen at least once. That's not really low chance and self-unhooking is big deal, there is a reason why deliverance is one of best perks in DBD (at least for SWF).
Get your arguments straight, either it is so a low chance and it doesn't matter, in which case we can as well completely remove it, or it is a big deal and it should never be for free. -
@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3844349#Comment_3844349
If they do just go back to the hook, nothing is preventing tunneling anyway
And not everything needs to be killer sided in this game
you:
"removal of 4% is massive buff for killers"
also you:
"4% unhook for free is completely fine change"
lol -
It's not really 4%, is it?
it's 16 attempts for free, every game…
I was never good at probability, but that should be 51,3% chance to happen at least once. Any math genius here to validate this?Thats a MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSIVE buff to killers
but massive buff to survivors is fine. Funny…
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@Lord_Xylum said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3844055#Comment_3844055
She's a setup Killer. Always has been. She was never conceptualized to be an anti-generator Killer. So you have to play accordingly.
My advice for this playstyle idea? Place Drone Paths that cover multiple loops, or cover a high-traffic location. Then, corral Survivors into your Drones. If they are avoiding the Drones, this can also be a good thing, because they waste time maneuvering and you potentially spend less time chasing.
When tagged, looping becomes harder for Survivors because they risk losing pallets fast. Your mindgames are enhanced with no red stain (Undetectable), windows become only a brief respite, and they cannot heal nearby teammates for a time.
Sure, Survivors can work on gens unimpeded by your power. So what? They have to move into your Drones eventually, if you're smart about playing her.
I fail to see how this rework fails to be satisfactory.
Place Drone Paths that cover multiple loops, or cover a high-traffic location.
That sounds useless to me… If drone is not stationary, it's completely random if you catch survivor or not (time when you chase survivor there)
Also survivors can simply decide to not chase there, if effect would be bad enough.So this concept sounds kinda useless to me.
She's a setup Killer. Always has been.
Doesn't mean she should stay this way. They have tried this concept twice, didn't work.
Sure, Survivors can work on gens unimpeded by your power. So what?
So they are not dangerous, your whole pressure has to be created by you chasing survivor. As base movement speed killer. All of your downs will have to be done M1, you have nothing as long survivor won't drop the pallet, if they manage to stun you, they can just run away.
It's setup, with 0 chance for snowball unlike Hag and 0 chance for instadown unlike Trapper. Also would take longer to setup. In what world that can be good?
They have to move into your Drones eventually, if you're smart about playing her.
Even if they run into drones with you chasing them, it's nothing strong really. So you have to play "smart" for nothing really.
I fail to see how this rework fails to be satisfactory.
Well, that's probably core of the issue, isn't it? It would be terrible beyond saving, we have had enough of those.
Not like devs are ever going to use suggested concepts on forum anyway, forum is only for feedback in reality.
You know what would be best way to play her, 3-gen again. You can't put drones next to gens, but you can create a border around the gens, push survivor into it and leave them, why would you ever chase survivor, who can't do anything?
Survivors would have to let you hit them, or run into drones and just watch gens regressing. -
@Rudjohns said:
Suicide on hook can go
But self unhook attempts need to stay
I would say keep the 3 free attempts to self unhook but they don't do anything to the hook timerSo every survivor can try to self unhook for no cost? Hell no…
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@jmwjmw27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3844169#Comment_3844169
showing survivor perks, implementing pings, etc all improve the quality of play at solo level. Which is still technically a nerf to killers. A majority of matches are against solos, full SWF is rare as shown by the data, so you would be nerfing killers as survivors across the board get new tools and their play will improve.
Also, one person on the team running distortion already allows SWF to know what aura reading the killer has and comm it. I don't think it would make killer's gameplay worse in an undeserved way either. If you spawn in with lethal, you won't get survivors running into you cluelessly or hopping into a locker anymore, but you still get full information off their spawn. NTH still full counters stealthing near gens. I'm All Ears still gives you wallhacks in chase, etc etc. I think more than just "this will make gameplay harder for X side" we should consider why before deciding if it should be changed or not.
If it makes the game harder for killers because survivors won't make the worst possible decisions, imo that is not a reason to not make the change. And the benefits for solo imo outweigh having to worry about taking Ls to situations where you cannot reasonably expect the survivor/killer to see your aura.
Which is still technically a nerf to killers.
It can be nerf to kill rates, but gameplay is not changing at all. My changes wouldn't create anything worse than it's already possible. Revealing aura info is massive nerf to any aura reveal perk.
Also, one person on the team running distortion already allows SWF to know what aura reading the killer has and comm it
but hey have to use the perk… So change is still buff for a SWF.
Aura reveal is better than screaming because survivors don't know about it. If you tell survivors, value of aura reveal is so much worse for most killers. What's the point of me knowing their location, when they start running as soon they get in my TR?
Doesn't make sense to nerf Distortion, just to few patches later nerf all aura reveal perks/addons with basekit change…
By soloQ and killers, I would take my changes any day over this.
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@jmwjmw27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3844164#Comment_3844164
Every buff to solo queue is technically a nerf to killer. Also, if 2v8 is anything to go by, you will still see plenty of survivors oblivious to the fact that their aura is being read despite being told. Killers would be fine.
Every buff to solo queue is technically a nerf to killer
not really, there are things to do that would make gameplay for soloQ better without changing killer's POV much.
This change would definetly affect killer's gameplay. You dedinetly would notice survivors prerunning whenever you see their aura…You can show survivor's perks, implement some sort of chat wheel/ping system etc. Those are things, which are useless to SWF (they already have this information) and gameplay wouldn't change at all for killers.
This change would help SWF (more than soloQ) and would make killer's gameplay worse. I simply don't think there is need for anything with such an outcome. -
Why are people acting here like slugging is not good thing to do?
There are definetly situations, where slugging is best option, it's not just "toxic" thing done by killers… -
I don't think help for soloQ should be simply a nerf to killers.
This doesn't affect just soloQ, you are trying to use soloQ only as an excuse for this.
There are several other options to do that wouldn't change killers, or SWF much. This is definetly not one of them. -
@Lord_Xylum said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3843876#Comment_3843876
I disagree on a few accounts.
- She doesn't lose distance like Knight because I specifically said "while moving".
- Claw Traps here are meant to give Skull Merchant the ability to capitalize on her info with near-constant, unpredictable Undetectable.
- The Drones don't enable "3-genning" at all because, as I stated once again, you can't place Drones near gens. Claw Traps also give basekit Dissolution and brief Bamboozle.
She doesn't lose distance like Knight because I specifically said "while moving".
Ok, how would that work?
Drone is going to travel basically only where you have walked before → unlike for there to be surivors, or skully will just hold W meanwhile (which can be often worse than just standing).Claw Traps here are meant to give Skull Merchant the ability to capitalize on her info with near-constant, unpredictable Undetectable.
no, it's constant only if you manage to detect with your drones regularly, which will create completely new issues to other side. And it is already worse than her current undetectable.
you can't place Drones near gens.
Then as long survivors stay on gens, you are not able to detect them with your drones at all? I can just run to unfinished generator and be 100% safe? Seems flawed to me.
Claw Traps also give basekit Dissolution and brief Bamboozle.
Sure, but let's be honest, if you compare it to any of two versions of skull merchant, this is simply worse on all levels.
What is this supposed to be better at? If it is not better at something, then it is simply going to be miserable to play as.
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I mean, unless you play killer with very fast chases, you need to worry about gens, there are simply gens worth defending.
You shouldn't try to defend all gens, but I don't think not defending any is better.- don't chase survivors into areas with no gens unless you down them very fast or need them for perk (Grim/pain res)
- don't chase a survivor which won't give you any resource in next 20 seconds (injury, down, pallet)
Knowing when to drop chase is way more important than saying don't protect your gens imo…
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Then make it harder for yourself, when you want to.
Not really difficult thing to do, but most people have simply too fragile ego to do it, because reality check would be too hard.- don't use slowdown perks
- don't use any perks
- use suboptimal addons
- don't use any addons
- never tunnel
- always 8 hook first
- don't play top 3 killers
- never kick gens
- never slug
Pick whatever you like…
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Interesting version of basekit unbreakable I have seen was something like:
- you can't use it if you were hooked before or already used it
- using it cost a hook state for you
- can be used after 40 seconds +/- slugged (not changed by perks)
This basically wouldn't remove mid/late game slugging and even if survivors use it, there is a price. Basically only thing we should try to prevent for both slugging and tunneling is when it is used as primary strategy from start of the game. I think it is perfectly fine and should be a thing for both to happen later.
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There is simple issue. You want her to basically waste time using power, exactly as Knight, but the effect is way worse than Knight.
Unlike when chased by a guard, drone can't do anything to me. Skully needs to catch up to me, if she wants to injure/down me.
Then you have even more issues. If detection by drone will be easy and using it fast, we have 3-gen king again. Just give as many survivors you can Incapacitated status effect and defend your Ruin. If drone won't be able to easily effect survivors, then it is kinda useless, no?If getting claw trap will be too easy, there will also be tons of crying about "underserved" value. If it is too difficult, then she is completely without a power and using her power only wastes her time.
This concept is not possible to balance and even less possible to make it fun for both sides. -
Well, you shouldn't do it if you expect/know survivor is using Dead hard.
Or if you have perk where you can get better value like STBFL (grab obsession), or Coupe (don't waste stack if you don't need it). -
Who cares about Deathslinger? He is usually free escape in 2v8…
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@Gardhome said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3842750#Comment_3842750
Pinhead is more m2 killer
Hag is no way stronger than Wraith. She is one of the 3 killers (with Ghostface and Trapper) when survivors can denied your power for the entire game by one survivor follow you and destroy your power and your left as 4.4 m1 killer with no mobility or anti loop power.
Sadako is literally worse version of Wraith cause everything she is done he did better. - He has huge speed in stealth mod, she is not. - She having directional lullaby, he is not - She cant bodyblock in stealth, he is - Wraith has option to be completly sneaky with right addons (silent bell) when sadako always stack with wooshing sound when manifested - He has insane amout of good, strong and even broken addons when mostly sadako addons are garbage
Spirit is a good example but she has many downside that Wraith doesnt have, her ability on cooldown, she is 4.4, she cant see survivors in her power. So yeah she is only m1 killer who is stronger than Wraith, but it compensate with many downsides that Wraith doesnt have.
Pinhead M2 is only slow, so kinda Clown with extra step. (unless iri addon is used)
Hag is going to destroy soloQ groups more than Wraith can ever do.
Funny to say how Spirit has so many "downsides", but is better than Wraith anyway. It's almost as Wraith has his own limitations. -
@GeneralV said:
Wraith is fine as he is.
I will say though, I don't think they should have removed the Lightburn mechanic.
It made a lot of sense thematically, as the killers in DBD are sensitive to light. You can clearly see it on the perk description for Lightborn and the original description for Shadowborn:
"Unlike other beasts of The Fog, you have adapted to light".
"You have a keen vision in the darkness of the night but are highly sensitive to light."
Yeah, lightburn was fine for me until flashbangs become a thing. That was so annoying to deal with…
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I mean, I would love to have 400% bonus back, but I play most of my games in 2v8 on survivors solo/duo and it is quite easy to escape.
Even if it goes bad, it ends fast, so not really "signing myself up for punishment". -
I wouldn't say half are bad. Just Deathslinger and Trapper…
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@Gardhome said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3841449#Comment_3841449
He is strongest M1 killer and real nightmare for solo survivors also biggest tunneler and camper
Spirit, Pinhead, Sadako, Hag are technically M1 and way better than Wraith (Wraith is easier tho)
Combination of words M1 and biggest tunneler/camper doesn't seem right. Biggest definetly can't mean best, because he is not even close to any of those. Also not even biggest for either of those.
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Well, they made it survivor sided to help queue times. It's expected for survivors to escape, so I would play killer only with friend, never solo.
Then I just don't care, if someone manages to escape. Well, we play Blight, Spirit so doesn't happen that often…
Also just give up on Deathsligner and Trapper, but everyone else is managable in some scenerio. -
@Toystory3Monkey said:
Here's a better idea:
after being slugged for some time, survivor can instantly pick themselves up, but they lose a hook stage.
it's completely up to them to use that ability or not so killers cant really exploit it and it can become really useful in situations where killers are ignoring hooks too much.
maybe limit it to only one use per match and only if you werent hooked once, so that it cant be exploited in mid/late game where slugging is a fair game.
I would be fine with it, if timer is like 40 seconds (not affected by any perk) and it can be used only if survivor wasn't hooked yet.
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I think there should be such an option, but under specific conditions, so it simply can't be spammed for just a little inconvenience.
It should be always middle/late game only and basically when game is lost for you.
BTW if one side will have an option to surrender, then both sides (killers, survivors) should be able to do it. I wouldn't even make it vote system, simply if conditions are met, you can leave the game. -
Except survivor classes are better than anything we have in normal game…
If survivors have an issue escaping in 2v8, it's kinda sad.