NuclearBurrito
NuclearBurrito
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- NuclearBurrito
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@KillermainBTWm8 said:
We looove to complain about how OP SWF is but we never talk about how Underpowered Solos are?
we often do. In fact the best solutions try and solve the 1st problem by solving the 2nd and going from there.
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@May_Be_AFK said:
They already have indicators....bond, empathy and obsession. And they're not just instant.
As much as I'd love all the information, just knowing the obsession is being chased gives me the free and clear to do whatever I want. If a survivor is hit, I can see them scrambling for their lives with Empathy or if they're healing now. And if I'm close enough with Bond, I can see someone doing a gen or hiding in the corner immersed.
The lack of information, the reason SWF is meh to me is the comms. I'm not going to go against it because people like playing games with friends.
I play solo and enjoy it. Sure SWF would be fun but not really interested in it.
Maybe they can make more perks that give more information like someone just hopped on a gen here or hooks 99'd but at least then it's costing you something to gain that info. Not just a rewrite to how the game gives everyone info.
All 4 of those are from perks. A SWF team can just not equip those perks and still get their practical benefits while also having room for more non-ally tracking perks.
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@prayer_survivor said:
@se0539, @Shad03.And you could counter old MoM hitting again, and was reworked.
@prayer_survivor that would be the equivalent of saying to counter NOED by not getting hit.
Breaking totems is a REAL counter, not like that "counter" to MoM. The perk doesn't activate and so the Killer won't get the benefit out of it.
Other examples of similar counters are:
Not healing inside the TR (for Nurses calling), slugging DS users, breaking literally any hex totem for the Hex perks, hopping in a locker for BBQ (not being in the direction the Killer is looking would be a fake counter), baiting out dead hard (swinging twice is the fake counter), gen tapping to counter regression, ect ect ect.
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In all seriousness. What do you have in mind.
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*Looks at all of the threads saying basically the same thing
Yup that checks out.
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Doctor
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how does this interact with haunted grounds?
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Terminology is fun
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@Glipngr said:
Okay, you got me, you can technically do all the gens and get out the door yourself. It's just such an incredibly hard thing to do that I've never seen anyone do it besides one youtuber. If you manage to meet someone who has done it, congratulate them, because that is seriously impressive.
As for your points on what makes a team game a team game, I believe it's simply a game where the win condition is the same, or at least similar enough that working together greatly enhances your chance of winning with no downside given by the game itself. A game where teamwork is encouraged and rewarded, even if you don't NEED them to survive, such as L4D, Trouble in Terrorist Town, and DbD. When it comes down to it, I believe our definitions of a team game are just fundamentally different, and I doubt either of us are gonna change our opinions lol. Nothing wrong with that, we just gotta agree to disagree.
@Glipngr Agreed.
For reference I usually use the term "Allies" for people who are currently helping each other as a consequence of circumstance rather than as a goal based requirement.
All teammates are Allies but not all Allies are teammates. Since an Ally doesn't have to stay that way and can betray you whenever they want (even if it isn't tactically sound to do so), whereas for a teammate to betray you the game needs to specifically include a conversion mechanic.
That should make discussion clear.
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@Almo said:
Looks like a net buff, and she's already performing very well at high rank. She's got a shallow learning curve.
Note:
A "steep learning curve" means you spend little time to get very good. A "shallow learning curve" means you spend a lot of time to get a little good.
Most people get this backward... just do an X-Y plot of time versus skill to see how this works. :)
@Almo most people use different labels which is why people think it should be reversed.
For example I always picture it as Y = Effort and X = Effectiveness.
Yours probably makes more sense but I just wanted to say that.
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I did the math btw. When you uncloak the Survivor gains about 4 meters on you.
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The victory cube removal.
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Thanataphobia
Monitor & Abuse
PGTW
Bamboozle/Brutal Strength
You don't need tracking perks for Plague, just use thanataphobia and PGTW down and M&A + Bamboozle/BS to get quick downs on the injured survivors.
I also recommend taking an apple addon. Having a corrupt right off the bat forces them to cleanse, which is your wincon as plague.
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@BenZ0 said:
That sounds mostly really nice but i would personally preffer to bring the old legion back with a few new legion updates for an example:
-back to slow movementspeed killer 4,4 M/S
-vault speed back to old or atleast faster then it is right now, it feels like you are the clown when you vault over a pallet or window
-bring back that you lose 25% of the mend bar for an extra frenzy hit
-back to 15sec recharge timer of the power gauge and you can use it whenever you want
-blood visable in frenzy or as an addon atleast (fuming mixtape for an example)
-reduce frenzy stun to 3 or less seconds (nerf the stun reduction addons to balance it out)
-durotation to 10 sec (or something else, depends on how it is better balanced)
-nerf franks mixtape with an extra downside like considerably reduce the feral frenzy durotation and movement speed
-if you miss a hit in frenzy the frenzy depletes completly / you lose 50% of your power gauge (to have a counter play)
-and obviously in terror radius your mend timer dont goes down BUT while you mend you will lose your mend timer until to 0% just like before, so mend is abit more dangorous and you have to actually run abit away and hide to mend safely.
-terror radius back to 16M so you can sneak up on people
I think and hope i didnt missed anything or forgot, but i think how it looks it should be fine.
Terror radius was 24 not 16
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/613611#Comment_613611
Killer Instinct will have a radius of 32m (what it is currently at default) and The Legion will have a terror radius of 16m. So you're gonna be able to sneak up on survivors even while in Frenzy and give them less time to react. You also have to remember that there are add-ons that increase Killer Instincts range.
Addons that increase Killer instinct range do so by increasing your terror radius while Killer instinct is active.
The entire point is that it reveals people in your terror radius.
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@Shroompy said:
I've also wanted to make Legion able to stall the game, which is why removing the ability for survivors to Mend themselves is a good thing. It forces survivors to get off gens and focus on finding others before they get downed. You should still be able to get that first hit relatively easy because of the 16m terror radius.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/613604#Comment_613604
Lower terror radius is part of the problem. Yes it helps with deep wounds and M1, but his tracking requires a big terror radius.
And it takes WAY too long to get considering how little it does here, a full minute and free bond for a 20 second stall eventually. Not worth anything especially since it is now harder to get and use Frenzy.
This is just a T2 Myers with nothing else.
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This doesn't seem to solve ANY of his problems and removes all of his Pro's besides his small size.
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So in other words, now it doesn't even help you first hit someone? Sounds very weak and doesn't really solve his problems. And what happens if there are less than 4 survivors? And what happens if all 4 survivors are effected by deep wounds at the same time?
And how does this interact with furtive chase?
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There isn't really anything wrong with YaiPa's solution. The low ranked survivors in the group KNOW that they are being matched with high ranked survivors and thus will get high ranked Killers.
You mentioned League, but I que with level 100+ players in that game all the time at sub level 30.
No one is being screwed over, the lower ranked survivors in this case know what they are getting into and have a higher ranked survivor to help them, also probably comms too. And high ranked Killers obviously aren't being punished here. So everyone wins.
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Yeah Hag can def play active.
You place a bunch of traps into an area and then chase people into that area. They pop the traps when running from you and then you can hit them.
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@Acesthetiic said:
@NuclearBurrito We’re talking about Hag lol.
Oh lol
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@Acesthetiic said:
@thesuicidefox I disagree with her being passive. She definitely causes chaos and is very active. And as long as the traps are ‘smart’, she doesn’t have to worry how the survivors play.
Trapper is male
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She also hard counters instant-heals.
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@Acesthetiic said:
I can see Clown C tier for sure. Plague I can see C, but B? not sure. Why do you think she’s B?
I’ve never actually made a killer Tier list before. I’ve dinked about with rankings in other threads, but never have I created a thread to showcase it. Not to mention I’ve changed my mind time and time again.
Few reasons:
First of all she can keep everyone injured at once, which is the primary aspect. Unlike with Legion this sticks unless they give her corrupt. Especially important since most plagues will run thanataphobia. This is comparable to Myers tier 3 (a little weaker but still comparable) but requires less setup and lasts longer unless they cleanse
Second she gets bonus to tracking, because when infected survivors interact with something it becomes infected, thus alerting the plague that something has been touched. Also sickness counters iron will.
Third, with addons she can get corrupt after breaking everyone and get an easy win that way if they don't cleanse. And if they do cleanse then you get an easy win because they cleansed.
Yeah I know that last one is addon-dependency, which is a big part of what is holding her back from A tier. But she's at least on par with Myers.
Her main drawback is that she's limited in what builds she can use, since thanataphobia is pretty much required. However she has more than enough benefits to justify B tier.
Also if they cleanse then corrupt is great.
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@Glory said:
I love how many people on here (not just this thread, fellas, I'm not calling you out specifically) are against any changes that would hide their red stain, when there's a huntress perk specifically for that and none of them would ever consider using it "because the effect isn't worth a perk slot" lol
Just like there's a perk to lower your whiffed attack recovery time, which is also considered "garbage", but heaven forbid anyone make it useful either...
I like the change proposed, my dude. Especially where one commenter likened it to billy's chainsaw in terms of trajectory and aiming, good head on your shoulders
If the perk just said "Your red stain is always hidden" then it would be way more useful.
But it doesn't, so it's not.
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I'd put plague somewhere at B tier and clown at C tier. Otherwise looks mostly right.
How exactly is this official btw?
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@Condorloco_26 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/610618#Comment_610618
yeah.
So we have the big three (No mither, self care, solidarity)
And Left behind, MoM, OoO, Boil Over, Da Pebble, Deja Vu, as candidates for the 4th slot. Unless I'm overseeing another one.
Not pebble. That one is useful
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Step 1: use the apple addon.
Step 2: Face people (who don't realize this) that don't cleanse and break all of them
Step 3: Activate corrupt.
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@Condorloco_26 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/610608#Comment_610608
open for discussion, since there are two sides for the no heal argument.
But they can't heal.
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No Mither, Self-Care, Solidarity, Boil over.
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@snowflake102 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/609631#Comment_609631
Is death garden dead?
Nope. It's very easy to get into a game right now. Certainly better than the Killer que times right now at red ranks
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@invira_zero said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/609636#Comment_609636
Well, im playing Deathgarden as survivors, something like once a week. Gonna say, that playing immersive in Deathgarden is kinda fun, more fun than in DBD. But on delivering blood, idk, i dont like it.
Running from body pile to body pile to blood post, marking things along the way, destroying drones, topping off on ammo to do those things and keeping an eye on my team to see if someone needs help is a whole lot more involved than just holding M1 and sometimes doing a skill check.
There is a lot more fun to be had delivering blood than doing generators. I'm not saying your playstyle is wrong, just that the alternative is still an improvement, and in my opinion it's fun.
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I like the Hag's design.
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Say what you want about balance. Delivering blood is just fundamentally more fun than doing generators.
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This is why I play deathgarden.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/609556#Comment_609556
I swapped poised for spine chill and Q&Q for lithe. I haven’t seen a Spirit since putting it on, they must be the ones dodging me! >:v
Lame. I hate lobby dodgers. If I ever face you I promise I won't dodge (Prob not, I haven't been playing much lately)
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Why is this in the bugs section?
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Nice build! Let us know if it works.
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@Milo said:
That is more interesting approach... but WAY too situational for 2 purple add-ons.
It is. But I want to make it work.
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@Raven014 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/608407#Comment_608407
Then why did survivors complain again?
Ah, I've always wanted to make a bloodhound build on Legion. : )
He was insanely consistent. He always 2ks no matter how good the players are. Also his addons let him actually 4k, still with little to no skill involved on either side.
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@Marcus said:
You need to find your obsession quickly and your obsession also needs to be together with someone else. If your obsession is good at hiding or if survivors don't stay too close together, your build won't work.
Hey at least Infectious fright makes it more consistent then some other non-STBFL obsession dependent perk builds.
The buff to that perk is also critical to this build (Any downs trigger it instead of just basic attack triggered downs).
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Bam. Not only does it hide the terror radius but it's genuinely useful as a stealth perk.
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Sense of Security
- You're confident in your odds of survival. You are never considered in the Killers terror radius, you cannot hear the Killers terror radius. You are always considered 8/12/16 meters further from the Killer than you really are.
Upsides: Immunity to the Killer's terror radius perks (Distressing, Infectious fright, doctor ect). Sort of resistant to Whispers. Resistant to Nurses calling. Pretty much immune to scratched mirror myers. OoO always procs. Resistant to being stalked (requires them to get a bit closer)
Downsides: Can't hear the TR. Can't use perks that involve being in the Killers TR. Spine chill and Premonition have a smaller detection range (sometimes a good thing). BBQ procs when you are closer. OoO has a smaller effective range, same for sole survivor. Deep wounds always drains (although you're immune to Legion Killer instinct).
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Yeah. We clearly need a 2v10 gamemode instead.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/608811#Comment_608811
Killers are strong enough already though. People always say they are weak, it is untrue. If you suck as killer it might seem like they are weak but if you are a good killer most games, even against top tier SWF, is in your control. Every game I've ever lost as killer I can point to specific mistakes I made that cost me the game.
Buffing killers because you buffed solos is not the answer and is exactly the problem I'm talking about with runaway buffing. Not only that, you just make the game EVEN HARDER for new players. Forget the extra info, they have no idea what it means or what to do with it. They will still get bodied, only much harder than before because killers are even better now.
SWF needs limits. That's the only solution that doesn't require drastic changes to the game. Simple = better, and this is the simple solution.
In order for it to even qualify though it needs to actually work. That just punishes people even when they don't use VC, and doesn't guarantee that people using VC don't go unchecked.
My method has been proven to work with other games. Killers being strong enough now doesn't matter if we are buffing Survivors, since then they WON'T be strong enough. But problems can be solved and balance is the easier to solve problem than just hoping no one cares enough to try and VC with someone in the Solo que.
Heck you could even just VC with strangers right now by sending them discord invites through steam and chatting with them that way. No one has any reason to do that right now because SWF exists and is mechanically identical to Solo's as it should be. But if it's suddenly worse to use SWF then you would expect players to do everything they can to avoid actually pushing the button.
And again, you don't know what the Killer buffs would be either since ANY buff can theoretically solve the imbalance created here, especially since it's deliberate.
Specifically, if we give more high skill options to the Killer then low skill killers will be disproportionately effected, for the exact same reason as low skill survivors.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/608651#Comment_608651
Except that there is a very very easy option of playing SWF. Behavior science would show that even though you could do this most if not all players would just opt for the easier route of doing SWF.
The reason they did it before is because SWF wasn't even an option.
Point is you don't want to give solo survivors more information. The game already pretty much tells you everything when something important happens. If you knew when a gen was being repaired or when a survivor was being chased then you become more efficient, and that just means killers get shafted even more. Again you'd have to buff killers to compensate for it and it just leads to endless back and forth buffs.
The game already tells you when the obsession is being chased and when they are being chase other survivors know they are free to do whatever they want. Imagine that for every survivor and you can see why that's a bad idea.
If they want to give solos more information it needs to be incredibly vague. For example, I'm all for some sort of mechanic that would warn players that the killer is near a hooked survivor. Base Kindred, however, is not the way to do this as it's way too strong to be a base ability. I've suggested before, but if you just make the hooked survivors aura pulsate when they can hear the killer's TR (like a heart beat) that tells you the killer is nearby or camping without explicitly saying how far away or where they are. It's vague, meant to help counter one of the big issues with the game, camping. I could say that maybe there should be some indicator of a chase if a survivor was just unhooked, something to say "this survivor is in peril they need help" but again it needs to be vague enough that you wouldn't know for sure they are being tunneled without seeing it yourself.
It doesn't matter how shafted these mechanics would make the Killer, because they don't need to be added in isolation.
The entire point is to buff the Survivors in this way so that we can buff the Killer to match.
Right now Survivors in a VC have this information while Solo's do not.
If instead all Survivors had this information, then we could just buff the Killers to be as strong as Survivors who have this information and then all of our problems go away.
Look at death garden for example. You see other scavangers, you see objects that they point out. There is an easy button to notify people that they are being chased, you know exactly how much progress is made, it's very easy to tell what people are doing ect.
No one is complaining about VC in that game because it's a non-issue. Everyone has the information and the Hunter is balanced accordingly.
The only thing we'd need to do here is have a similar level of information while presenting it in a way that doesn't feel quite as informative even if it technically is. Having it be presented in the form of icons rather than actually seeing them do it is a method of accomplishing this factor.
From there we simply buff Killers in general to compensate for this. It honestly particularly matter how so long as it gets done. For example increasing most Killers movement speed. Or maybe decrease how long it takes to do some actions such as breaking stuff. Or maybe just a lot of case by case buffs to Killer powers.
There is nothing wrong with back and forth buffs. Those power boosts in addition to just improving the game in general also give people cool new tools to play around with and are just satisfying to have. It's simply the best method of solving the problem by far, since it's not something you can abuse just by being a little patient. A bandaid solution like what you are suggesting is just counterproductive and makes the issue appear solved when it isn't.
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Yes people did that before SWF was a thing in the first place.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/608483#Comment_608483
Actually it is.
When you play SWF, only 1 instance of each perk is allowed. This means no 2 survivors can have the same perks. It forces team builds, which is what you should be doing anyway as SWF and bolsters the meta with new perks.
The problem with SWF is really that they can stack all the best perks. If everyone uses Adren/DS/BT/DH then you will body every killer you go against. There's no need to use anything else. Every aura perk, every killer tracking perk, every map awareness perk is obsolete with comms. Most perks that provide buffs are semi-obsolete with comms and using items.
This maintains the integrity of the core game and makes SWF about strategy and not pure meta. If you boost solo to SWF level you just continue to break the game. Now killers have to be made more powerful to compensate, which negates the original changes, and you end up with this runaway "buff everything" cycle until the game is unplayable.
So force SWF groups to share, now they have to spread the meta stuff and use other perks. If you play in a smaller group then you are less limited. If you play solo you have no limits.
Got it. So instead of pushing the SWF button I'm going to get with my friends through the solo que by re-queing.
Now I have the same perk choices as before except it's way more tedious so I also leave a bad steam review while I'm at it.
The issue is that the SWF button isn't the problem and there is nothing forcing people to push it. There are legitimate reasons to reque for all sorts of reasons and trying to oppose artificial limits on people for pushing a button that does nothing but tinker with matchmaking a bit.
VC isn't part if SWF and it doesn't require SWF.
SWF isn't the issue, VC is and you physically can't remove VC.
All you do is make things more annoying for everyone.
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Deathgarden does this really well.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/608432#Comment_608432
Solo players don't need help.
SWF needs limits.
Not possible. SWF is mechanically identical to Solo. The differences are not in the form of mechanics, and thus cannot be explicitly addressed through mechanics.
The closest you can get is replicating the benefits through mechanics.