NewPlayer100102
NewPlayer100102
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😣
And suddenly the game got harder.
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Did he just say they balance a PvP game around the loudest voices on a forum?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3358949#Comment_3358949
It's not though. Not every chase is happening in a vacuum. Your first chase is going to take a bit longer at times because more resources are available. But you have slowdown perks to mitigate that and chase perks to make chases go quicker. Having a long chase with chase perks equipped isn't indicative of skewed balance.
He said in his original post that he does not want to use slow down. A precondition to giving advice on this one would be respecting his conditions. So, CE, PR... and whatever were specifically pre excluded. I assume from his post that he's well above the skill floor required to read a perk description.
People want this game to be chase oriented. But the victory conditions are primarily linked to generator time. These are simply too short, IF the survivors want to finish the game quickly. Split on the first gens is 80-90 seconds with no PTS(for 3 gens, concurrent).
The second one is 90 seconds, and 45 for the PTS one(concurrent). For 180 seconds total time, excluding travel.
But, I already said that, and the only refuting there was is PTS IS BAD!
My first chase in a match is often like 10 seconds. who cares? Solo que cares, because at that point they're done. And they are the only ones that care. When I said 30-45 seconds I meant average, across the whole match.
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He said under 5 minutes.
Gens are easily done in under 5 minutes.
@Bwsted said:
I put down 3 traps in the game, on my way to the other side of the map
I'm not denying that Trapper is a weak killer, or that gens can be done quickly. But here there's mostly a perception dissonance at work. You're running a full chase build on a territorial killer. Then, you waste time setting up traps that you won't be able to take advantage of because you're traversing the whole map. You can't conceivably imagine to have a fair shot at winning after undercutting yourself.
You're not playing your killer to his strengths. You have to expect to do poorly under those conditions. Because if that wasn't the case, then many issues would come together.
He's saying the generator speed vs the down speed of a survivor in a chase is all ######### up.
And it is.
This isn't some deep thing, skill issue or anything aside from common sense and basic arithmetic 30-45 seconds is too long measured against how long it takes to finish generators.
Yah, at this point everyone knows each killer has an optimal approach to the match, and perks to support that. He even stated the master win trapper OP strat. Basement. Traps. Altruistic survivors.
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Well...
3 gens at once take 80-90 seconds, and the next two can have 2 on one gen with PTS, and that one would take 45 seconds and the other 90 assuming it was just done as one while the other two practiced their T-bag skills.
So, total without travel time is 180 seconds.
Three minutes. I'd say you did great, you upset them by 2 full minutes.
Pretty impressive, for a game thats a ****** mess
😀
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Yes. I want to see the map and the killer available.
I want to buy the Demogorgon, and Eddie/Dustin.
😀
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It feels like that because if you have a coordinated team to com with the game is not hard.
People that play killer a lot get to have a set of visual things that tell them a SWF is sitting in the lobby, if they aren't in the mood, they ditch the lobby.
The match making system seems to put whoever is next in line against that team, regardless of MMR. The smart move would be to stick the SWF on a 45 minute wait for a killer that had the skill AND the desire to play with them. Don't force things, let people play who and how they want.
I don't want additional compensation for facing harder challenges, I want them marked as such so I can do it if I want.
And pass if I don't.
Seems simple, but for some reason, the developers have said a hard no.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
Yeah, yeah, another Dead Hard post. But I want you to sell it to me. How is this perk fair?
I played a game of Trapper today. In it, there were four dead hards. I kept track and I ate 9. How did this happen?
5 of them were from Dead Harding into a pallet. What do I do? I didn't lunge, btw, I just kept walking because I know they can react to me lunging. Swing when they end their DH before they can drop the pallet? What if they don't DH, which did happen twice? Not to mention, latency/server can make the timing borderline impossible to nail at times.
3 of them were from body blocking a hook, and obviously, waiting isn't much of an option. (to be clear, those 3 were all on the same hook/for the same survivor).
And then there was 1 in the open when I tried downing a Yui when she got off a gen while injured. Alright, that was fair.
9 Dead Hards, 5 of which I could literally do nothing, and 3 that were done in solidarity to save a teammate. Even discarding the latter, that still makes 5/9, over half, being Dead Hards I physically could do nothing about.
So how's this fair? Sell it to me. Justify it. And before you say it, Nurse and Blight being stupid strong does not justify stupidity on the other side. It just makes both stupidly strong.
I don't see how the concept of fair applies to a game like this.
But, If I had to frame it, around a similar concept I'd say dead hard is fun but causes unintended issues.
I wouldn't change it because of the fun parts of it. I'd mess around with other aspects of the game that lead it to feel unfair.
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Just as a point of info, Eruption was not the most used perk. It was not in the top four.
It was nerfed because the counter play was too complicated.
Dead hard though is the most used perk.
It not being nerfed again despite its pick rate is likely related to its popularity.
I kinda like it as it is now, I do not like the quickness with which gens can be completed( a related issue).
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@Akumakaji said:
Hello everyone. I will try my hand at one of this rants, too, just to talk it off my soul
Today I tried a couple interesting non- meta builds and I failed miserable. Unless MMR throws you a bone and you get a full team of potatoes, losing two gens first chase is now the norm, often with the 3rd one following shortly after.
I then tried a couple of games were I hard-core tunneled from gen 5 on, which sometimes stalled the game slightly due to altruism. But someone would always stay sticky to the gens, no matter what happened and every single game proceeded to the end-game or 1 gen remaining with massive progress on that one.
I won those few games, where I managed to down two survivors at the same time and got an early kill, but even games were one survivor DCed at 4 gens, when they realised that they were tunneled weren't a walk in the park and still had me to play devious or perish.
And DH is literally everywhere and hard-carries a lot of games. A lot has been said and discussed about DH this last couple of weeks, but it has become so oppressive that it basically feels like pre-6.1 Yes, in theory it's "much fairer" and you can "bait it out", but by now all the good survivors have adapted to DHs new rules and know exactly how to bait out hits or put the killer in lose/lose situations.
Heck, most of the time I can call out when a survivor is going to use a DH pre-vault and often it's still a 50/50. And at palettes this game sense doesn't give you any advantage at all, as survivors can drop the palette the instances their "parry window" closes. The killer has literally 0.1s to hit the survivor or get stunned
and this is such a dangerous gamble, as if you fail your are left with nothing to show and the survivor doesn't even have to mend.
DH once again has a stranglehold on the game and the killers are mostly relegated to survivors playthings. Many claim that killers have it at their easiest, but that was the week or two after 6.1 dropped; this times are long gone and survivor's can greed palettes with impunity again, having so many resources that they basically can never run out.
I know I sound like "just one more salty killer main who got rekt", but I don't consider myself a bad killer and it really pains me to see the game in this state again. It feels like pre-6.1 all over again, were 3/4 of the games are just torture and you have to play in your most unfun and unsavory way, just to get a foothold, while sniffing each and every survivors butt.
I think that the problem is more complex then a single perk or a couple or overtuned numbers: some players have literally thousands of hours and know this game inside out. They can run every single tile absolutely perfectly and greed every single palette, no matter how unsafe, to its absolute max. This might indeed be the hallmarks of a great survivor, but against such opposition the game mechanics just break down, and you get multiple safety nets like DH, BT basekit and now hyper efficiency via HUD on top!
In the past the game was meant as a desperate war of attrition: you chase, get a couple of palettes out of the way, you eventually win the chase, hook and repeat, while slowly gen after gen was done. Now most of the time it's chase, greed, greed, greed, maybe get one palette out of the way, DH, t-bag, 3 gens pop.
I won't be leaving the game, but soldier on and suffer, and I am aware that few will have any sympathy or empathy for my plight, but: DH needs to go asap, for each match that it stands, it's sucking more and more joy out of the game. And maybe we need more dynamic trials. Let the Entity work as a game director and help the side that has fallen behind and gets stomped a little bit out, it would even be lore accurate. Let The Entity block windows or destroy a couple paletts if 3 gens pop at zero hooks, or hide the survivors scratch marks and maybe respawn a shack palette, if the survivor in chase is on death hook at 5 gens.
I don't know, maybe I am just worn out and burned out by this game, but it doesn't feel like a skill issue, as I was fine till just a couple of weeks ago. Could be that it's mostly the HUD change? Well everyone, you can now shoot me down.
Every match has dead hard. And script or skill, they all execute perfectly the first time.
The second and beyond time would be on me.
Regardless its all time where 1 survivor is off gens, not 2.
Anyways, You don't sound salty to me, you sound honest, and its nice to see.
😀
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I liked the part about Eruption.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3357525#Comment_3357525
Broken also mean OP in video games.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3357614#Comment_3357614
It's on a killer, everything that was unintended for survivors is fine though!
Yah, but in this case hyperbole makes it confusing.
Actually broken stuff is around. Blights hit box things really feel broken when trying to work out how to use them.
Not saying I want it fixed. After anyone Invested 1000+ hours in working with a broken thing, lynching would be justified if changed.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3356776#Comment_3356776
C33 and alch ring are the only ones that are a bit overtuned.
How are they broken?
I've seen C33 interacting with another addon to do something unintended.
As far as I can tell, the ring just does what it says.
What am I missing?
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@Beatricks said:
OmG, KiLlEr so hard you guys!
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FL79J97YX5C3/20230208074748-1.jpg
Seriously, how does anyone even enjoy playing killer anymore?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZXOUTNXRPTDF/20230208193154-1.jpg
Every single lobby is a complete sweatfest with these HUD changes too!
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/A9QSO11RWSPL/20230209080020-1.jpg
I just want to chill and have some fun but they genrush me in one chase, so unfair!
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/G5HK3IRF4CT6/20230209094515-1.jpg
When will the Devs make Killer playable again?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/KBU34E78C9J7/20230209174230-1.jpg
Just give killers that instadown all survivors at the start of the match so we have a fighting chance against these SoloQ killsquads!
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/RRSSYH9BEEQ5/20230211143825-1.jpg
I'm kidding of course. Just play one ######### SoloQ match before you complain about the health state of killer gameplay. Because it's not even in the same ballpark as the actual unplayable game mode. The killer entitlement is even worse than the survivor one and that's a HUGE achievement. Pretty good job so far folks.
I play survivor a lot.
I rarely feel like the killer is doing anything over powering.
Every single soloQ or two man SWF game I play, I feel like the other survivors are actively working to toss the game.
Most of my pictures show Claudette circling in a map corner while the killer face camps with 1-2 gens left.
I don't think its a killer issue, its a solo que player issue and what they want to do, will do in the match.
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@ProHillbillyMain said:
Probably next mid chapter along with his broken addons.
Which addons are broken and how are they broken?
I haven't used them all yet.
All the ones I've tried out seem fine.
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@Dbdfan398 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3356343#Comment_3356343
We come back because there is no competitor.
I wish sony or microsoft would make a similar game with the licences.
This is such a neat concept for a game.
I wonder if the state of the community scares off more competent groups from offer a competing a product, or if the monitization model is too complex or contentious.
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As noted above, with Blight you still have to move.
Normally a chase for me is 30-40 seconds. + 10 seconds to carry, hook and reorient on to the next survivor for 40-50 total. This is too long if the survivors are generator focused.
The problem I see is most survivors do not want to win via completing the gens and leaving, they want to loop the killer and feel good about wining in that context, and they want someone else to achieve the gen complete status. That's too bad, because it leads to a lot of pointless arguments.
In short, you still need to focus someone out, to slow down the generators.
As far as playing optimally by using tunneling and camping as needed. Yah of course its true, only maybe Nurse can use a different approach, and the approach I've seen from the survivor side, is equally unfun.
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Boil over, its just been bad recently.
Corrupt Intervention/dead lock. I like regression better, or a way to block gens that survivors can work around, like DMS, instead of just blocking them because time.
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@Gamall said:
They can spawn because S tier killers exist and can counter them.
You simply had the misfortune of using one of the poorest killers in chase
I haven't experimented with the specific setup in the picture , but...
The maps are like foundational to where we'll play our match, I don't think this is where you want your tweaks to balance out a Blink, Dash, or Rush to be placed.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353942#Comment_3353942
When I said 'Toolbox greens' I meant the green add-ons for toolboxes.
You mean the sabotage supporting stuff?
Please take those out(not serious). Having survivors reveal early in the match that optimal play involves slugging them all, is not fun. For either side.
Now, to be honest, I mostly see BnPs loaded and not the sabo items, but those greens do support a style of play that I see often enough in SWF that want to annoy the killer, and I wouldn't seriously advocate cutting their game play options down.
So, yes, those add ons do support a play style.
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Apparently they won't fix the matchmaking system, and the most reasonable excuse I've seen is match expediency.
A note to play nice from the system, along with some incentive to play nice, might not seem like much, but it might be just the thing to encourage some non rancid behavior in match, particularly on the killer side, as they play in a void.
As far as a survivor system to the same effect, I do not think you can fix that, its a different type of broken and requires force to fix.
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Yah...
Although I love being able to glance at them on demand, making the icons affected by status things seems like a good balance.
Weird that they didn't do this on their own, maybe they just wanted to see how the hud would playout before adjusting it.
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I guess I might use it with Jolt to camp a 3 Gen.
But since I can't camp a three gen because it requires the wrong type of patience, I don't see a use for Eruption like this.
The ability to stop people from progressing the last generator is what made eruption useful. It doesn't do that like this so, I think its better to stick with Pain Ress.
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Other maps do this. Grim pantry does a similar thing.
IDK what they are thinking that they allow this stuff to spawn like this.
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OMG
" Toolbox greens for example are terrible. As are most offerings. Keys and maps are pointless"
Keys remove your collision last time I checked. That is not pointless. Maybe exploitive is more accurate. Toolboxes still load BNPs, and reduce generator time.
Survivors have the potential to be set up all wrong beyond a certain point, when coordinated and loaded with toys.
And this feels like a massive over compensation for the lack of decent tutorials that might tell new, solo survivors how to succeed.
I'm not really wanting to compare add ons for each killer vs the total survivor pool of junk, but I do not see it being contentious to note that some killers only have a handful of useful add ons. And I'll take 25% of a gen+ 1.5x basespeed for 16seconds over Blight's shredded notes or placebo tablet.( To pick a killer with good add on options to highlight that they all have some trash.)
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@BenSanderson55 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3330871#Comment_3330871
Because you don't see them reworking maps for survivor benefit. Where's the Midwich and Dead Dawg reworks? Also most games are soloq and duoq, killers acting like they have a 4man swf every game on comms is just really bad or has 4k'ed there way through camping, tunneling and slugging soloq into the high mmr brackets.
Yes, I do not see them reworking maps to help, anyone.
The only time I see Midwich offering is when survivors that want to boil over/sabo troll play it. And that is as much fun for the killer as eating rocks.
Dead Dawg I only see when a team wants to headon/flashbang. Which is not as obnoxious as the sabotage thing, but not something I would sign on to play. On either side.
RPD as it was had a neat tight 2 Gen +1, that required some planning to breakup early, and was very hard to get near if you left it for mid late game.
Clearly you don't like it.
I did like it as it was, playing on both sides.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353032#Comment_3353032
Okay, but you do understand they're not actually telling people what to think about the chapter, right? It's just a little BTS video that was absolutely filmed ahead of time and was just released on schedule like the rest of their promotional material.
Like, at most, you could make a passing comment about it ending up being poorly timed on a purely accidental level, but it is literally just regular ass promotion. A little behind the scenes to interest people who like that kind of thing and shed some light on their design process.
This wasn't a response to the backlash. If it is, I have to commend BHVR on how quickly they filmed and edited it, frankly. If you expect a response from them, I'll refer you up to my first comment here: What could they possibly say that isn't "we're not releasing this" to make everyone happy?
I think the release was despite of the backlash. A deliberate attempt to control the narrative. And yes, I know they had that ready to go.
They could also have slapped together a response video outlining their revision pipeline and showcased the new chapter going through it. I feel that would have been well recieved.
"What could they possibly say that isn't "we're not releasing this" to make everyone happy?"
" We as a company appreciate your dedication to our product, and although we will release this chapter as is, we will commit to doing our best to bringing it up to the communities expectations in future patches."
Something like that would likely bring good will.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353014#Comment_3353014
Sure, they released their little behind the scenes thing to talk about the design and show off the work they're proud of, but the debate had started before that was even posted. Clearly the reception was mixed before BHVR posted anything at all, and so clearly the people who like this chapter aren't swayed by official comments one way or another, they just actually like the chapter.
So... what's your point, exactly? That releasing a BTS video for a mixed-reception chapter is Orwellian? That the people who like the chapter should be discarded for thus-far-unstated reasons?
I'm being sincere, I'm not following what point you're making here. If it's not that BHVR are influencing people to comment positively where they wouldn't otherwise, what is it?
I didn't see a mixed reaction, I saw mostly negative.
No one's opinions should be discarded. They should all be weighed equally and individually. I see the balance to lean toward negative on this chapter.
The Orwell reference concerns Behavior telling the audience what to think about their work instead of reading and absorbing what the audience said and deciding how to respond in the product expression realm.
Other people clearly(you're here) support the chapter, this is acknowledged. I believe they ignored the criticism of the chapter across all its levels and just went right ahead and said:
"STFU and enjoy."
"Also, she'll be in a bikini next month."
I don't care about any of the above. I was just pointing out that they told people what they should think, which is the norm today, instead of letting the work stand on its own.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352989#Comment_3352989
Then who are you referring to? The only people who'd have an investment in following BHVR's wanted response would be the Fog Whisperers, and they seem pretty split on it from what I've seen.
Since they aren't giving the same response, and nobody else is under any influence, that just leaves the simplest outcome: that anyone commenting positively is doing so because they feel positively about it.
The PTB forum does not show the actual public sentiment about this product. It shows this forum's sentiment around the product. This forum is not the entire playerbase, and let's face it, this is where people mostly go to complain to begin with. Besides, this forum's opinion is as split as any other area, there are people here defending the chapter.
I am referring to Behavior, themselves. They released a promo video to explain the chapter. They told us how to feel about the design and use of the killer.
The public responded with some other ideas, before the video was released based on PTB testing.
Reading over the PTB forums and Youtube the general response has been negative, for various reasons.
I suppose, it being an internet space, you can find someone to support any point of view. Weather or not they actually enjoy the product on its various levels, I don't know or care.
And as an aside Fog Whispers, as far as I understand the program(similar to EA game changers) are paid, via influence over development and clout. Both are valuable commodities and allow the payer to assert pressure.
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They don't seem to have an interest in fixing things this way. Each map pass seems to result in a slight alteration of the map to be more of the same. Eyrie of Crows got smaller, but its still a safe map.
One you didn't mention was the seconds floor of the pantry on Grim Pantry.
I followed a Kate through it for the entire match, just to be sure that there was no solution to the chase.
OFC common sense says break off to win. I can't say that I much care about that, but I'm fascinated by these clearly broken map areas, and even more fascinated by what that says about the developers...
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352908#Comment_3352908
My guy, it's a video game.
If people say they like it, Occam's razor indicates they like it, not that they were paid by the company to say so or anything. Is it so insane to consider that people might just have different opinions to you?
I did not say or imply anyone was paid. They presented the opinion they wanted the public to have about their product.
How is it contentious to imply that the company that financially invested in a product would cultivate a positive opinion about the product to drive sales?
And what does this have to do with Occam?
I think it is simpler to assume motive from the entity invested in the product. I mean, its not a conspiracy, its common sense. Its the status quo. Hence my Orwell crack.
PTB forum shows the actual public sentiment around this product.
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They did respond.
They loudly proclaimed that it is AWESOME and you LOVE it.
They got some people to assist in the assertions.
Orwell, is feeling very smug in his grave.
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Why don't they just link generator regression to not tunneling?
Spreading hooks around could give a bonus to current regression perks, working like CoB.
This really does not feel like a deep topic. It feels very simple, I'm convinced somewhere in the decision making chain someone is blocking common sense revisions.
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Bad map most of the time, unless you want to leave people on the floor for 4.
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If you have a match making penalty for leaving a lobby, those people will just stop playing.
Its not that hard to figure out why or how it works, move beyond low MMR and face SWF3-4 or really good 2's. The game is so radically different in this state that the killer may as well be playing a totally different game.
And a lot of them do not want to play that game.
The way to really fix your lobby dodge issue is to show up front what sort of game you'll be forced to play, and let the players decide if their time is worth it.
I doubt this is what will be done though.
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@H2H said:
BHVR doesn’t see killer players as legitimate players so they don’t care.
They can't. Killers are NPCs
to be balanced so as to fall in line with player skill growth arcs.
@kk602 said:
Don't you think this is funny?
=========================
Survivor Additional Standard Features
●Icons let you know what other players are doing
●Can withstand damage for several minutes after being rescued
● In the future, it will be possible to wake up from a down state in seconds
－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－
Killer additional standard features
No special additions to standard features Good luck lol
What do killers need to address the unfairness that you see?
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@Tjiani said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3351911#Comment_3351911
I am not a new survivior... I have been playing DBD on and off for 5+ years, and I reach red ranks every single reset. The problem is that even in red ranks I still get potato survivors doing nothing all game (Cause matchmaking is not about rank anymore) . Solo que is too weak for the tunneling/Camping strat. SWF is the only way forward to counter it, and while BHVR is trying so hard to keep people playing Solo, I see absolutely no reason to play Solo with the way the game is "balanced" right now. Too many times I have been trying to buy my teammates as much time as possible, just to watch all 3 of them crouching around in the bushes doing absolutely nothing while I dangle on hook. Even the most experienced killers tunnel, because it's the fastest and easiest way to turn the game to your advantage from the beginning of the match.
I still fail to see why people should pay for a game they don't get to play, because someone elses "Strategy" is to deny them to do anything at all. Mention just one other game where one player can determine wether or not someone else gets to play at all ?? People pay for a service they don't get? The killer at least get to chase, destroy pallets, hit, slug ect. even in a bad match with no kills, they still get points for all of the above. Survivors gets absolutely nothing if the killer decides to be a douchebag. And for people with limited time to play, it's just not worth it as survivor compared to killer BP.
You seem reasonable.
Tunneling and camping are things your opponents are doing that you don't like. That is what their game function is. That is good.
Your team is doing things you don't like. That is the opposite of their game function. That is bad.
The only ways to resolve these issues that I can see are:
play SWF, which you already noted.
Request the developers implement a player to player match making ban, that is under each players control.
Petition Behavior to start a media program in and out of game that is aimed at showing survivors how to play.
None of those involve the killer, tunneling, or camping. Yelling at these things is a waste of time. At best the developers will do something stupid and make it worse.
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I don't dodge anything.
I try to make sure to tab back over to see the offerings so I can get ready for the match.
If I cared about not having a bad experience I'd dodge:
TTV marked players.
Full lobbies.
2+ of the exact same cosmetics.
4 of any survivor add on.
If 3+ players enter the lobby I'm wating in at the same time.
Anyone whose steam profile has only 1 game listed.
Anyone whose steam profile lists a ban of any type at any time.
Chinese character only names.
prestige level doesn't correspond with anything in my experience, the above stuff tends to indicate something is going to suck about this match.
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I was in a game with two TTV people.
The TTV was open on a PC next to me with someone else watching it.
One of the TTV players was harassing a Feng Min for TTV content.
I hooked the TTV player.
I ignored the Feng they were bullying.
Her buddy was also hooked and unhooked himself.
The streamer got annoyed on his stream.
I downed the streamer's friend and went to pick him up to hook.
Suddenly a Disconnect on my end.
This is not uncommon.
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Guard that corner !
Seriously, maybe they'll get bored and rush YOU.
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@MonsterDilf said:
Ah, nothing like starting off the night with a console Killer (as usual they're the worst,) camping the hook of any survivor. This guy let the gens get pushed, I managed 2.5 before attempting to rescue a Steve who was routinely hooked, tunneled, and the killer just stood around him, waiting for someone to rescue him.
"oH bUt yOu cOuLd hAvE rUsHeD gEnS" I hear your screech! I did, but I also feel bad for the survivors who have to spend their game, laying on the ground, and then getting hooks and sitting there for 120 seconds + bleed out time.
One thing I notice commonly in the camping discussion (tunneling is a different topic) is this patronizing "well you should just do this," attitude, which really does not set tone for a proper dialogue about the issue at hand. It REEKS of this crabs in a bucket mentality, and I'm not here for that: killers and survivors deserve a good mix of risk/reward.
cant wait to see how many posts hit me with a cry harder/rush gens/thats just how it is/should killers just not have any fun then/dont play the game
You can't make the killer play better.
You can't make the killer play in a fun way.
That's why people scream about stick to the Gens.
It's not said to imply you're too stupid to do Gens.
Its because the other option, which is mob the hook, is super high risk and very difficult if you are not talking with your team.
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Yes. Please.
Remove map offerings.
All I have seen them used for recently is boil over trolling.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349749#Comment_3349749
I only do it for memes or if im lazy/drunk. But sometimes it is funny when all survivors try to come to rescue and you get them all down. I still think it's probably most reliable way to 2K if you use deadlock and noed as well. Your team must have very good effiency doing 4 gens in 2 minutes but that is advantage being in swf. Most players play soloQ and usually at least one comes to check if you camp or not. So they are not as effient and waste more time.
When they rush to get an early unhook and risk the entire team to pull one survivor early, I assume they aren't interested in the generator aspect of the game and they just want to flashbang, pallet save, head on around an area and they don't much care if they lose, they just want to fight for as long as they can. And it looks like they are having fun with it.
My point wasn't to judge the morality of face camping/tunneling/whatevering, it was to point out that at least at my survivor MMR that its not very common, and the most comical examples of it don't really give the killer the 4k ultimate victory often if ever.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348509#Comment_3348509
2) You tunnel them out.
Therein lies the problem. The counter to survivors doing stuff like this or brining dead hard, or god tier toolboxes or medkits, is to tunnel them out as fast as possible, which is not fun for them. The counter for killers camping and tunneling, is to just slam the gens as fast as you can with the other 3 and then escape, which is not fun for the survivor on the hook, nor the 3 survivors on the gens, and i'd argue the killer.
The most effective way to play this game, is the least fun for everyone involved. Let's ignore "sides" for a minute. I don't care which side you are on, but don't you think, for EVERYONE's sake, that that should not be the case? That it should be changed and fixed? So that the most effective way to play the game, for everyone, is to play the way that is most fun?
OFC The game should have developers that direct its growth to ensure a fun experience. This was the way to monetize your product.
Now its different, developers feel totally comfortable using negative reinforcements to keep people playing. I think in the case of Dead by Daylight, the developers are too detached, too distracted, too.. something to understand basic things like.
games should be fun.
losing can be fun.
We could debate, refine and go through every step prior to implementation and have these concerns resolved, but it'd be a waste of time. Behavior just does not see the issues this game has as actual issues. And they hold the keys to uploading a new test build.
Don't get me wrong, the game is still fun, its just a sort of sordid, abusive, negative type of fun at times. And its on the developers to clean it up. We can only do so much with our fractured nature as an internet community lead by self obsessed and selfishly motivated media figures from twitch/youtube...
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328690#Comment_3328690
I played sometime ago many games a row facecamping bubba and as long I didn't take too long to get first down I ended almost every game with 2K at least. The games where I only got 1K I failed to get down at the end but I did have chances but I was drunk while doing that experiement. I did 4K one game where survivors tried to come to rescue that you just don't do agains't him.
We just had a Bubba like that earlier today.
We did the first gen and he grabbed me on the way out. He put me on a hook in front of shack and I just called for everyone to stay on the Gens.
When I died the last Gen popped. 3 survivors walked out the door and moved on to the next match. Match was like 5 minutes.
This is a bad strategy to use, its counter play is really just to " Follow the plan and leave."
If every killer choice to play like this, I'd defiantly agree, this is a bad game, but they are super rare. I think this was the only one I've seen in months.
And to be clear, I mean the killer puts you on the hook and just stands there for the full two stage hook timer, maybe twirling in agitation a little or reving the chainsaw, I'm not talking about something sensible like intercepting an unhook or area camping while watching some nearby gens.
Its still pretty rare in my experience, its not much rewarding for the killer, and having tried it once myself, its not really any fun.
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Her back story has quite a few unnecessary elements that detract from what the stated focus is.
If the goal was to craft a predator that enjoyed the challenge of stalking and killing the family elements, and manga elements, should go as unnecessary distractions with no potential payoffs.
The wealthy immoral predator set up might be better supported via the cruel aloof capitalist aspects of her story and her origins in poverty. So maybe a little of her family stuff could fit in that area.
Her physical design that is supposed to work with written and the set elements to get the audience to suspend disbelief just don't do the work they need to.
To be blunt, while trying not to be rude, I see a 160 pound female with 100 pounds of gear strapped to one side of her body, with no counter weight. I'm not buying that she can maintain standard moving speed, let alone manipulate that mass on her arm to impale someone like David King. It just doesn't work for me. And if can't suspend disbelief, I can't feel anything from the story elements(text or visual).
They could have knitted all that exoskeleton into her chest mass and dragged it down into her hips and I would have been starting to buy it. But this would have messed up the conflicting elements of her apex social predator stuff.
I suppose they could solve all these issues via a new tome that expands the written and a skin or two that try a little harder to show me the predator instead of forcing it on me.
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huh
That's really a neat effect.
I don't play this killer. I don't want to play this killer. I want him to have the ability to hide his traps, like in the picture.
That would be fun.
😮
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348506#Comment_3348506
The two are not remotely the same and I do not think you really understand that.
Pallet stuns and flashlight blinds ≠ Being Tunneled and camped
- Survivors have 3 hook states before they die, and if you are hooked 3 times at 5 generators remaining, I can see why people would be upset, you are basically out of the game before you can really do anything. And it's not like it's just that one match either, tunneling is on the rise and becoming more common to see. And it is also important to point out that if you play with friends, it can be further frustrating since you are forced to wait out the match, you cant just "leave and go next".
- If you are being camped on the hook you literally cannot do anything for 60 seconds per hook state, and on top of that, the Killer is not inherently doing anything either, I just see it as a waste of both players time unless it is end-game since there is nothing left to defend, it's why some perks deactivate during the end-game, and most people can agree with that.
- Killers do not have a limit to the amount of pallet stuns or blinds. Killers dont have to worry about being removed from the game if they get pallet stunned or blinded multiple times. When you get stunned, you cant do anything for 2 seconds? But guess what, you are still in the game and after the stun you can still do stuff.
- If you get blinded, you can still move and track Survivors, blinding is often just a disadvantage since you lose out on distance by blinding the Killer. If someone is trying to make a flashlight save, I can normally bait them out to get a hit, or just force them to waste their time. By sitting there and waiting to get the blind, they are not doing generators, which means the objective is not progress or progress it a much slower pace than normal, which I am fine with.
So yea, there is a difference in standards, because the two are completely different, you are comparing apples to bananas, comparing cars to roomba floor cleaners, it just realistically does not make sense since the topics have a lot of nuance that you are ignoring.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348509#Comment_3348509
Blast Mine is tied to the the first interaction with the generator. So you halfway through the generator kicking animation, you can stop the animation and kick it again to completely avoid Blast Mine.
Albeit this only works if you get the timing down for the kicking animation (it takes some practice).
This has been in the game for a long time, and considering how it hasnt been "fixed" despite there being bug reports for it, I just assume it is intentional at this point.
But now you got a new trick in your pocket to try out. :D
Thanks, we'll mess around with it later.
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Yes.
I would stop kicking gens unless I was running a kick based regression thing.
If I was running that I would acknowledge the start of match advantage they had due to counter perk selection and press harder to pull them off gens. Commit less to chases and try to find the players with the blast mine perks.
Understand that sometimes, for perk or map reasons, you won't win.
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@Unam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348407#Comment_3348407
Tell me the counterplay to blastmine and getting blinded during animation.
Im excited to hear.
1) Stop kicking the generator that the player is on.
2) Just like Head On, Body Blocking, or any other annoying thing a survivor might do, you tunnel them out asap. Face camp them out if you really absolutely do not want to have it occur again.
Those are the ways we handle it.
Dunno about the other guy,