Michi
Michi
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- Michi
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@Boss said:
I see this a lot in my Hex: Devour Hope build. 🤭
Well devour hope is by far my fav perk (in general hex perks are my fav type of perks) so I use it a ton.
My 2 fav hex builds to use on my Hag are : dh+undying +thrill
And
Undying +hg + retribution
Thing it is taking months for me to see a killer using undying with smth that isnt ruin. Same can be said about hex perks in general. I see ruin, undying and Noed being used daily. Devour hope maybe once per month. Haunted ground once in 2 weeks. Perks like toth, lullaby, retribition, crowd control, 3rd seal are hex perks I see twice per year if lucky [it doesnt count if Killers are using their own perks so crowd on trickster or lullaby on huntress as example])
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I still think that hex: lullaby should spawn an additional skillcheck for each token it has (max 6)
So basically whenever a skillcheck that is not caused by lullaby happens, more will spawn (depending on how many token you have + with the delayed Sound I can imagine that it could be good challenge and make this perk hex worthy)
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If you are using this perk then the basement hooks and 3 random hooks are converted into shrine hooks. These have a different appearance compared to the other hooks.
Survivors on shrine hooks cannot try to kobe and as long as a surv is hanging on a shrine hook (the killer must be atleast 24m away from this hook) the closest 2 gens in relation to this hook are blocked by the entity as long as the surv is hooked there.
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@C3Tooth said:
I think traps only trigger if Survivors run near traps. Walking triggers them is a bit too much, make it impossible to escape from basement.
Plus add some action to remove her trap, 2sec animation would do.
You can disarm/remove hag traps already.
Just remember where a traps is, come closer, trigger it on purpose at the border of it's activation radius and run away. Hag cannot get you when trying to instahit you.
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So I was looking at this for a while and here are some Infos, facts and also a bit of help.
To everyone saying Hag is not interactive:
Hag is a very interactive killer. The difference is, that survs have to seek the interaction with her. Instead of complaining that you get instahit during a chase and that there is no interaction happening how about finding out that it is the hag youre playing against at the start of the match? After that you can follow her and disarm her traps while maintaining a safe distance between you and her. Hag is planting traps during a chase and the other survs complains that the,, only option " is to run away? Well you can just disarm the trap while they moved out of the loop and make that loop usable again. Hag and survs interaction is a permanent game of hag trying to hide herself and her Web and survivors trying to find her and disarm her Web
If survivors dont go out of their way to interact with this killer then dont complain, it is your own fault then.
To everyone saying that you cannot disarm hag traps, you need a flashlight and that you should be able to scratch out traps :
All of this is completely wrong. Being able to scratch out traps would make her a very bad killer + the counter would be too similar to the one of Trapper. You can already safely disarm traps. Just remember where a trap is, approach it and trigger it at the border of the activation radius. Then sprint away immediately. Even with an instant tp hag will not be able to hit you. With that simply and easy action you did the following things :
1) You made this place safe again
2) if she teleports you know again where she is and therefore you can harass her better
3) you disrupted her stealth
4) you maybe saved a surv that was in a chase
So you dont need any Tools except for your eyes to disarm any hag traps. If she does not teleport the trap is a wasted ressource of time, if she teleports you are already too far away. Also this is again heavy interaction with this killer but again, you have to seek interaction
To everyone saying that you do not like the cam swing:
Hag needs this. This is one of her most powerful tools. If you dont like it then just look at the center of the trap whole triggering it. But to know where traps are to avoid this you have to spectate and harass her which is interaction again.
I agree that hook Camping hags are a huge Problem and as I said often enough traps should all vanish in a xm radius after a rescue. Survs have to crouch to hooks, but not back.
Also make her chase music similar to deathslingers with a soft start but as soon as the chase begins or a trap gets triggered a jumpscare Riff should be played. Also an addon rework since her addons are either useless, make her weaker or are just boring stats increases.
At the end to sum it up: Hag is not an active killer, she is fully reactive. All,, no fun " complains except for hook Camping are not because of her, but because of survivors refusing to do anything else than gens and expecting the killer to be the one that forces interaction. In hags case she doesnt force interaction, but she offers Heavily. If survs dont take the offers it is not hags fault.
Greetings to @Phasmamain
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I think blood favor should immediately work again as soon as the previous pallets get unblocked. Also instead of 15 seconds make it 20. Also if you hit a survivor it should Block all pallets in a 16-40m radius. This means all pallets within 16m can be used still.
With this perk survs have to make a choice at each hit:
1) stay at the spot and give up their hit speed boost but they can continue to loop this pallet and use it
2) they can run away but then they enter the no pallet zone and risk getting downed
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It is completely fine this way
Trap counters are: crouching, setting it off at the trigger-corner and runninbg away or using a flashlight.
If you dont want your traps to be erased you can either bring Franklins which is a really strong perk on her or you can place traps in not so obvious spots. Hide them better and you should be fine
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My change :
Even without any addons you can use the key to see the repair progression of all gens in a 64m range around you.
You have to charge the key fully up and the auras will appear as soon as the progress bar is full. While charging up the key charges are very slowly burned. The auras will linger for 12 seconds after stopping the charge.
(would also give broken key a purpose)
Any key addon that works with charging too will burn additional charges off the key and if these are aura addons then these auras will also always linger for 12 seconds.
You can use the key on a hatch, but this will notify all other players (killer and survs) with a special notification and an animation with a progress Bar starts. After 16 seconds the Animation is done and the hatch opens. During this Interaction the key will burn through 50% of it's charges. If it has 0% charges left at any point this Action is interrupted. So if killer stops you early you would have a 2nd try.
Dull Keys have way less charges which means that at any interruption of opening the hatch with it it wont have enough charges anymore to open hatch.
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I will repeat : The only changes hag needs and will not destroy her are
- all traps in a x m radius around the hook will vanish after a rescue happened (it is a unique feature of hag that hook rescues are slowed down, but survivors should be rewarded for savely saving and not have to crouch back. I also want to see all camping hags being punished)
- adddon rework: most of her addons are useless, weaken her or are just simple stats increasers. That should change
- a new terror radius: since she is a sneak up character + a jumpscare killer the Terror radius of her should slowly fade in like the one of deathslinger but the moment a chase starts the music should start with a sudden scare ambient and continue to play wildly
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You can crouch. This will not trigger any traps.
Sadly many hag players play her wrong and spam traps around the hook but atleast you do not have to worry about traps at other places.
If you get unhooked or you are approaching a hooked surv start crouching. Flashlights can also erase traps. One last Info to really mess with her : if you know where she planted a trap, approach it slowly and as soon as you trigger it run away from the phantasm. She can teleport as fast as she want, she will not get you if you do it properly
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I think the best changes for blood favor would be to remove the cooldown and also change the affected range from 0-16m to 16-40m.
After a hit the survivor can choose to stay at the loop (Hit sprint wasted) and have a save pallet or the survivor can run away right into the blocked field and hope that it can reach the 41+ m mark with unaffected pallets before the killer gets another hit in
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Well the thing is if you run after hag and look what she does you know exactly where the traps are, therefore rusty shackles wont really work on you. Also keep in mind that with rusty shackles she is giving up 2 things : her Radar and even more important the cam swing. The hag is giving up a lot of important things to get these other strenghts.
However it should be one of her ultra rare addons
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Each killer is designed to be appealing to a specific group of people. So is hag. I know thousands of people that heavily enjoy hag.
Each and every killer is loved and hated by many people.
And for me personally chases are one of the most unfun aspects of the game. I rather win by playing smart and tactical rather than running after survs. Hag is just amazing because she offers a whole different and refreshing experience
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I agree completely with traps in a relatively close range to hooks. As I said a few months ago the perfect change would be that traps get destroyed after a rescue (x m around hook)
I think it is part of Hag's kit that you have to slowly rescue but for that you should be rewarded with being able to sprint away after that.
In any other aspect hag is 100% fine. I think the hag isnt the Problem, it is the people that play hag in a completely wrong way and also the people that refuse to play in a different way to counter her. If survs would apply the different playstyle vs her they all would have massive fun vs her
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2233175#Comment_2233175
Perhaps. I can't think of anything else. But maybe a master can.
@Michi I apologise for the ping, but if I may ask: do you think there are any similarities between Hag and Old Freddy? Or something that can possibly explain this result?
Dont ever be sorry for pinging me please. I did that test by myself and of course I got the Hag but Freddy was nowhere to be seen. I guess it has to do with clicking on the,, I like to Set up" Option and a few other special answers. I guess that for this test Freddy also falls under the,, setup and trap" category. If you choose this hag gets many points and if most others questions get answered in favor of Freddy I think both end up at the top spots
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@Beaburd said:
I'm not sure how I feel directed passive pressure like this, but I'm for adding additional objectives and/or obstacles in the game in general.
How does it chase people off totems (hitting them for a health state?) and how do survivors cleanse totems vs them if they guard them?
It behaves exactly like the zombies with 3 differences:
- it moves way faster and has a different skin
-it gets a speed increase when someone touches a Totem + it moves quickly to that location (keep in mind that it would be probably as fast as a survivor walking at Max speed)
-it will vanish as soon as that hex is cleansed
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@TheClownIsKing said:
I am appalled and astonished that Hag is still flying under the radar.
There is absolutely nothing fun about, or fair about:
a) not even being able to simply WALK around the trial. WALK!!!!
b) once in a chase it’s basically “screw you” because there is absolutely NOTHING you can do as a survivor if you run anywhere near a phantasm trap. Not even TOUCH the damn thing. Just run near it.
c) the fact that there’s is anywhere from a marginal chance to NO chance to avoid a hit once Hag teleports.
And...
d) her hook camping by proxy BS that means you’re basically dead from your very first hook, unless magically gifted with the most competent teammates in the entire world.
There is absolutely NOTHING BALANCED about a killer whereby the determining chances of success against them is whether someone in the team happens to have the correct item.
I just don’t get it. How?! HOW?!
How has Hag been allowed to remain in the state she is in.
All she provides is a lopsided experience for the killer using her, and misery, frustration and a sense of pointlessness “why even bother trying...” for the survivors.
Please, why aren’t more of the community speaking up about Hag’s very real, very big problems?!
Hag is almost perfectly fine.
Look: you said that there is nothing you can do during a chase which is wrong.
If you would have looked where Hag planted the traps you would not fall for them. You could easily go to the border of the activation radius, trigger it and run away. In this case she will miss 100%.
Hag is an extremely interactive killer but there is one thing thats completely different between her and all other killers: other killers seek interaction with you, but in Hags case the survivor has to seek the interaction with her.
Every match try to find out int he first 20 seconds of the game who the killer is and youre golden against the Hag if you play properly.
The only things that should change about Hag are:
- the chase music
- her addons (only the ones that make her weaker or add nothing to her)
- and as soon as a person is rescued from the hook all traps in x m radius should vanish
She is very strong but has the perfect amount of counterplay and is the only real tactical killer in the game, For a change survivors have to play in a tactical way too.
I did a lot of testing and things like cam swing, crouching over traps, flashlight disarming etc should stay 100%.
Removing traps by hand should never ever by a thing, for this you have the method of triggering a trap at the border and if she teleports and has no other traps close she runs slowly after you.
From all responses etc I am seeing is that Hag is not the problem, the players are the problem not using the counterplay she has and instead trying the same old formula that works vs all other killers
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How I would change it:
- scratchmarks only appear closer together if youre in a chase with a survivor
- the survivor youre chasing becomes the obsession after 12/10/8 seconds of the chase
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They are fine they way they are. See it like that. If the radius would be smaller she would hit you out of her teleport every single time.
The radius is big enough to make her land attacks if the surv is not expecting a trap but at the same time let the surv escape if they trigger it on purpose.
Sometimes I see people suggesting to remove traps by hand which should never be implemented. If you know where a trap is just walk up to the border of the trigger radius, activate the trap and run away. This is very effective
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@dtavares7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2167674#Comment_2167674
What do you do about survivors that just follow you and watch you place traps? can't do much about them since hag is so slow
Okay look, there is one very big thing you need to know about Hag: operate from the shadows. You have to constantly look around you if someone is watching you because surprise traps are 100x times more efficient than the ones the team saw. Make sure all the time that no eyes are on you. I often set up a web on the fly during the few times I follow a survivor. The moment the survivor runs around a corner set a trap. the moment you see during a chase that they have no line of sight towards you, search a good place (should not take more than 0,5 seconds) and trap it, then herd them into this trap. Also constantly look at character models if they look back at you. Also do not trap while being too close to them or they hear the trapping sound
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From your messages I can see that you play hag wrong/ play her like other killers which is not the way to play her. You need a very different mindset while playing as her. Hag is a character that mirrors your skill perfectly. In that case she is like Nurse. The better your skill the better the killer is in your hands Regardless how the other team behaves your skill with her shows how the game ends.
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From your messages I can see that you play hag wrong/ play her like other killers which is not the way to play her. You need a very different mindset while playing as her. Hag is a character that mirrors your skill perfectly. In that case she is like Nurse. The better your skill the better the killer is in your hands Regardless how the other team behaves your skill with her shows how the game ends.
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Uh no as I said when a killer brings up 4 hex perks that light up 5 totems then 5 totems will glow with the effect of the 4 perks.. so basically that ,,no effect hex" is not existing in this case.
This idea is there to make one survivor stop for a few seconds doing this ,,pointless" totem + a team will never know if the killer is playing now with 3 perks or still 4 (also I mentioned that slight retribution buff since it can now trigger twice potentially)
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Except for 1-2 very tiny things she is completely fine.
She is rewarding to play, interactive and has enough + healthy counterplay, she brings a different playstyle to the table for both sides and she is the only killer that is truly strategic.
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Depends on the nerf. Tbh almost all nerfs you could give to Hag would kinda destroy her.
The changes I would personally would give her are: each x seconds she is close to a hooked surv a trap in a xm radius around that hooked surv is erased. So basically you draw a trap and then run away. Placing more or proxy camping will erase the previous traps.
Change 2: after a surv is rescued all traps in Xm distance are erased. While I think that it is Hags thing that survs have to crouch to go for the unhook I am 100% on the surv side that survs should not be forced to crouch away again after a rescue. That is too much.
Something that should never ever happen is to allow survivors to remove traps via action other than with a flashlight. This would basically kill her + make her way too similar to trapper. There is already an amazing counter to Hag traps: come close, trigger them at the trigger ,,border" and then run away. If Hag teleports immediately you maybe interrupted a chase she was in and youre wasting her time. Like with gens before you pop a trap plan ahead. Look for a save escape route.
I see some people saying that Hag is not very interactive which is totally wrong. In fact she is heavily interactive but instead of Hag offering interaction the survivors have to force it by (as example) triggering her traps at the border etc. But many people try to play against her the same way they play against the other killers and do not take any opportunity to create interaction.
I guess the main reason that she is not played that much is because she is the only real tactical killer. Even trapper is not that tactical because he can chase fine without traps etc. while Hag has to play in a tactical way only to win.
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Hag is very unique in many regards. As mentioned already she does not like to chase, she lives in the future and she is a very manipulative and investing killer. But keep in mind that Hag is always reactive, not active. You prepare an outcome for specific situations and then you lightly steer survivors into said situations to make your plan work. Hag's effectivity depends on how survivors play. She is also unique in the regard that gen rushing backfires heavily but only 1-2 sruvivors that harass her are enough to make her struggle.
I am reading often that people do not like Hag because of the no chase style and having ,, no interaction" with her. The thing is she has both of these but the difference is here that the survivor has to force it. You can interact in so many ways with Hag but people refuse to do so. You can also force her to chase you but again you have to take the initiative, not her. In these ways she is very unique.
Tbh I think she is one of the best designed killers because: she does not need any perks or addons (good basekit where I can run fun builds all the time), she can adapt to many situations, she does not struggle with the speed of the game but at the same time she has plenty and good counterplays and force survivors to act differently which is very refreshing.
But I really wonder what the point of your thread was? It is kinda coming out of nowhere? How did you get these thoughts all of sudden?
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1: At the start of the game take a few secs to look around and figure out where the survivors might have spawned.
2: build a web using the fortress technique which means: select an area of the map (usually 1/4 - 1/2 of the map) that belongs to you and that should be safe for you and where you win chases easily as long as survivors are inside (I often see people saying select a 3 gen, I personally never look at gens, I select an area that would fit my web in general)
3: after you selected your area draw traps close to points of interest for survivors that counter as many structures as possible with one single trap. At the end these traps should surround your area of interest.
4: each web has a ,,door site" this is the line between traps where survs will enter or leave your web and this is usually the point where traps trigger first. A web can have multiple door sites but try to limit it to 1.
5: use your low height and tr to run to survivors, but do not confront them directly, run around them and come from a side where theyre forced to enter your web. When they reach the door site and trigegr these traps hit or down them and set these traps again. Mantain the door site as much as you can. Inside your web youre the master, outside of it youre weak. Generate points of interest inside your web (hooked survivors) to lure them in.
6: early game is the most important time for Hag. Build up your web and then lure the first survivor in. The rest is up to you
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It is weak because: survivors leave the area of effect during the hit-speed. The cooldown of this perk is massive and it even prevents survivors from dropping pallets when they would get hit at the same time meaning no pallet is wasted.
Effect now: currently it blocks all pallets within a 16m radius after a hit for 15 seconds with a 40 secs cooldown.
My rework: It blocks all pallets in a radius of 16m - 32m after a hit for 15 seconds with 20-30 secs cooldown.
The survivor can now either: use the speed after the hit as normal but that surv will then run into tho pallet block zone (16m - 32m)
The survivor can try to run past the 32m radius to use pallets which is risky because chance is high that killer catch up and hit again.
The survivor can not use the speed given by the hit and actually stay inside the 16m to use the pallets there.
With this rework + the cooldown being reduced to 20-30 seconds this perk would actually become decent and make survivors not use their hit speed boost and if they still do they enter the blocked-pallet-ring.
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People just do not want to think too much and they prefer the chase. They want to run after a survivor and maybe outsmart them with a tiny mindgame here or there but that is it.
Hag on the other side is for people who like to be very strategical all the time, think and plan nonstop but also hate chases or running after someone.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1905823#Comment_1905823
Are you the real Michi @Michi ??
1: I guess so
2: ITH = Insta Teleport Hit (teleporting and hitting a surv the moment a trap triggers)
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1: Use distance traps
2: turn around and follow the survivor that keeps following you -> they run away and the moment they break LoS you place a trap and run away again.-> they trigger this trap on their way towards you -> use ITH -> if you have a stable web you finish off that surv quickly
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She can defend gens still like every other killer
If she comes closer than 32m and a rescue happens she is close enough and does not need traps
Also if someone is running with hag around a hooked surv then there atleast 2 survs not doing gens.
I don't see any problem there
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I am currently working on a video where I am explaining how Hag should be changed (in my opinion) when a midchapter arrives that is centered around her. One part of that is the elimination of her campy playstyle I tried to solve with following mechanics:
- Like with Pyramid Head and Cages there will be also a system that checks if Hag stays close to a hooked survivor and this system will remove a hag trap in a 12m radius around this hook every 6 seconds if Hag stays inside that 12m.
- If a rescue happens and Hag is closer than 32m to the unhooked surv all traps in a 12m radius around the hook will vanish
This should ensure that Hags place one trap close to a hook at most and cannot use the traps to camp or proxy camp.
If she stays too close survs won't need to crouch away from hook, they only have to do so when Hag is more than 32m away during a resuce which is enough time to crouch and run away
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As Hag you need to place traps, you never chase as her. Many survivors trigger traps on purpose by sneaking to the border of its activation range and then running away, this might be the reason why they gain so much ground after a trigger
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@rafajsp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1803222#Comment_1803222
Yeah i know i'm your YT sub.
The point about HAG is that's not part of the game mechanic. Besides the "epic battle hag LOL" there is no chase and as consequence hard to defend yourself as a survivor.
Same as Spirit which is way worse ... you get to rely on luck and predict and when it works.
Dbd was made to chase a survivor, loop, pallet, defense, mindgame. None of these are good versus a good Hag.
It's all about interaction between killer and survivor. Sometimes is easy others are hard.
Also you are mentioning a probably SWF wich is another rare thing like 90% of games i do is soloq.
Lastly i forgot about 3gen strat which most of Hags do because of web and slow speed.
I want to do a vid about it but Hag is extremely interactive. Much more than many other killers. The thing is the surv has to seek the interaction with Hag and most refuse to do this.
Example if you spot a Hag early, trigger a trap at the border of its activation radius and run she cannot get you. Now if she place other traps repeat. If she commits then there is your chase! Also as soon as a trap triggers a mindgame starts which a surv can easily win from my experience. Against Hag it is not a guessing game like against Deathslinger Spirit etc as long as you spectate her. You can turn Hag into a chase killer. If she traps a loop during chase run to next one and loop until she does again. If she is tp -happy trigger a trap during a loop and change directions (mindgame)
She is heavily interactive but everyone refuses to do so and rather says that she is not (I see tons of survs doing the above mentioned stuff to me and it works really well for them)
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@rafajsp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1803107#Comment_1803107
Hard to harass without being hit by a scroll hag.
Just take a look at some Michi YT videos.
I'm not criticising but take a look ... he even write "since my web is done is almost gg".
Where is the skill ? Roll a button ? You don't even have to chase wich part of the game and what 99% of the players like. There is no chase, just scroll and hit and hook.
Actually there are many things you can do. Sadly I did not record that one but last night I had a game where I set up but a hidden Meg was spectating me. She triggered all traps constantly in a specific way so I could never get her. The team did 3 gens during corrupt intervention. She was also very good in running tiles and she only focused on ruining my web. The mistake she made is that I played in a certain way on purpose to analyze her and at some point I created 2 webs at once, one web she was familiar with and kept disarming and one hidden one where she didn't pay attention. This 2nd web combined with stbfl got 3 of them down ( including Meg) in a span of 11 seconds. If she would have paid more attention to the secret web this wouldn't have happened. But only 1 person that focus only on Hag and not on gens and never loose focus can potentially ruin everything as long as that person spectates the trap spots.
On videos everything looks easy but in reality every trap I place has a long process of analyzing and going through dozen of scenarios in a matter of seconds behind it.
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You mean she was top tier and still stays there after the changes
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I teach people how to play hag. You can contact me when you're interested.
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There is also one more problem with hag: she is (yes she rly is) the hardest killer to learn, master and play (even nurse or billy are much easier) but sadly less rewarding. Normally hag should be by far the strongest killer because of the effort it takes to play her effectively compared to any other killer.