MadLordJack
MadLordJack
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Nope, don't bother with NM. Just replace it with Iron Will and don't heal. Unless you are deliberately trying to force a DS, which... Well, even with NM it's morally questionable. You better have gotten tunneled for THAT one.
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For all we know, that's how map rotation works and you just happened to be in a bunch of lobbies that had that specific map as the next in line, collectively speaking.
That being said, there's thirty-odd maps. You can easily block the last map each person played just played in from the next lobby. It's only 5 maps. Sure, people would then get lineups like we had back when New Lery's got released, but still. It would be something.
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@Fibijean said:
First of all, thank you for all the comments - it's been a huge help. I've finally had time to go through them all, and I have some clarifying questions for some people. Some of these may sound rather pedantic, but I'm genuinely just trying to understand your ideas better.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1253588#Comment_1253588
Which second chance perks specifically do you avoid as survivor? Why do you assume that Nancys and Bills in particular are likely to be a detriment to the team?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1253676#Comment_1253676
You say that you like to do totems as survivor if the gens are going too fast. Is that a tactical move in case of NOED (since if gens are getting done fast, it's likely no one else has bothered with totems), or a kindness to the killer, or a combination of both?
You teabag killers who camped and tunnelled, but don't want survivors to teabag you if you had a bad game. What if a killer camped and/or tunnelled because they were struggling? Do you consider it acceptable as a killer for a survivor to teabag you if you camped or tunnelled them? (I'm not attacking or judging you, just trying to understand your point of view.)
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1253697#Comment_1253697
Can you elaborate on what you mean about being toxic with perks? Are there particular perks that you will never use, or that you will only use in specific scenarios?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1254245#Comment_1254245
What would you define as "abusing" DS?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1254361#Comment_1254361
Do you ever use killers that have an insta-down built into their power? If so, do you use that power?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1254625#Comment_1254625
By "farmers", do you mean survivors who rescue teammates near you, or survivors who are trying to farm for bloodpoints?
If you don't use the Tombstone Piece, does that mean you also won't use Judith's Tombstone, or is that an exception for some reason?
What do you consider "accepting" a boop? Do you let the survivor escape, or do you only let them live until you see them again?
Do your survivor rules apply only to yourself as a survivor, or are those expectations that you have of the survivors when you play killer as well?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1254890#Comment_1254890
Do your survivor rules apply equally to other survivors, or are they purely self-imposed?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1258641#Comment_1258641
Do you avoid Haddonfield and Ormond offerings out of respect for the killer, or because you personally just don't like playing on those maps?
By farmers, I mean teammates that 'farm' you. You know, pull you off the hook right in front of the killer and/or immediately stealth/SB away. Bonus points if the killer chases them there or if I literally just got hooked. If I go down, that is 100% my teammates fault. Don't care if they had BT, if the killer commits to me that's still on my teammate. That includes me getting facecamped pre-endgame: don't reward facecampers. Do gens. You are creating positive reinforcement for that playstyle. That's a terrible, terrible thing to do.
Judith's Tombstone is a massive debuff. The stalk amount alone is enormous, not including the speed debuff. Tombstone Piece, however, is a reusable ivory mori. You just pop T3 (it doesn't take that long, and you can shorten it with other add-ons), kill someone, and now it's a 3v1 against a 16 (let's be honest here, 8) meter terror radius m1 killer. AND YOU CAN DO IT AGAIN. I don't like that add-on.
If survivor boops me, I chill. At least they have a sense of humour. I might let them go, I might let everyone go, maybe I'll meme, maybe I'll give them this 1 free outs and come back later. It's so rare these days, people just want to rush gens and leave (which is fair, don't get me wrong, that's literally the aim of the game). I just don't really want to go full sweat against someone that boops.
And generally speaking, if survivors don't stick to those rules (keys, DS abuse, immortality combo (DS/Unbreakable), ultra non-meming BM) I don't stick to mine. I see a key, I'm sorry if it's green. I see OoO, I'm sorry if you were solo. I get an undeserved DS... I'm not sorry. I don't Mori key holders or anything like that, but I also don't play nice with people playing dirty. Better to ask forgiveness from decent people than give arseholes an even easier game. I've been on the recieving end of a killer scared of OoO, keys, or a team full of Immortality Combo. I get it. I really do. It is not fair playing nice with underhanded people. And the best part is the sheer number of dirty players (killer and survivor) that complain about the filth the other side sling at them after they themselves cast the first... Well, heaping pile of filthy, dirty plays.
TLDR: Farming is unhooking in the killers face, Tombstone Piece requires the same effort as an ivory mori, Boop Transaction is complicated but generally I just like memer's, and if someone does me a dirty they cannot complain when I return the favour.
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@LALYTHIA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1262005#Comment_1262005
Horribly designed for who?
As a survivor, I have definitely run out my fair share of DS timers without forcing a locker pull. Why not? As long as it isn't your death hook, if you can take the Killer on another extended chase while your teammates bust out gens AND save your DS for potentially using it in end game - when it's arguably its strongest - that works for me.
Killers may think its horribly designed, but as I've said, it functions exactly as it was intended. It is not an anti-tunnel perk, and it functions accordingly.
So your argument is that it is supposed to be an invulnerability perk? That is so, so disgusting if that's what the Devs intended. Several times on livestrams they referred to DS as an anti-tunnel perk, and whenever someone complains about getting tunelled one of the Devs suggests DS.
Tell me, what were you doing in those lockers in the first place? Did you ACTUALLY get tunelled, or did you get unhooked and run straight into the killers face because you had a free get-out? Because in my experience, it's usually someone abusing the fact that they are immortal for 60 seconds. Which is a terrible, terrible design, especially when they vault into a locker as you are describing and force the killer to eat a totally undeserved DS or let them go without any punishment. And yes, that is the normal, average, majority use of DS these days. It is a get-out-of-jail-free card for people than can't loop or want to be obnoxious and get in your face with multiple layers of protection because they know that slugging gets you nothing unless someone is nearby. And they can even avoid getting slugged by just jumping in a locker. DS is horribly designed for everyone: the Devs, in their rework post, made it clear that they think it's a bad thing being the obsession because there is 1 perk in the entire game (and not a very good perk) that punishes it. In fact, that was their entire justification for the way it currently works: It makes you the obsession, which is a 'downside' (massive, massive buff). By definition that alone makes its design terribly thought out.
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@MegaWaffle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1261675#Comment_1261675
Oh I'm not against them fixing the blinds for consistency sake, I just think it would be neat if killers had small little differences in how you approach situations. Now NOT being able to blind them is clearly not ok, but if smaller killer simply required different angles it would be another neat little thing to learn.
I totally agree with that. The Devs, however, really don't seem to. Look at what they did to Pigs terror radius.
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@Respectfulnancymain said:
Iri head is op becasue it has no down side any decent huntress can start using it for ez 4ks. Most people cant dodge 3 hatchets let alone 5. And conisdring your using the "just adapt lol" argument I trust you can adapt to ds,dh,bt and unbreakable
You forgot styptics, BNP's, deliverence and adrenaline.
My personal adaptation to Iri Heads, btw, was to go down on the third hatchet. Those extra ten seconds really help get the gens done. I feel like I contribute so much more to the team.
Oh, and then she reloads and snowballs. But still, those ten seconds... valuable, no?
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@MegaWaffle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/150921/spirit-and-hag-looking-down-to-break-pallets
Hag has the issue because of how low her camera is on the character model and I personally think its a neat thing with Hag.
Spirit I find odd because she isn't a small/short character. I do think she needs to be looked into when it comes to flashlight blinds.
If they wanted to make small/short killers have a different flashlight timing that would be neat but it'll need to be consistent, this is why Hag doesn't bother me.
Spirit is a very short killer, she just doesn't look it because of her character model (she stands up straight, her hair stands on end, and she doesn't have any obvious disfigurements like Hag). But with pallet blinds, it's not about their height but their animation: Freddy and Pig are both the same relative height, yet they don't avoid the pallet blind.
Still, I don't think the Devs want people to play differently when it comes to game fundamentals. I'm surprised Clown's pickup animation hasn't been fixed either, unless it was and I just happened to miss it.
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The map rework has (somehow) changed a lot of tiles to make it easier to get caught. Debris and loop alterations have made a lot of loops... Sticky, for lack of a better term. It would not surprise me if other maps had these same problems: I almost want to deliberately check to see if the Temple is the only one that genuinely gets you permanently caught.
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The best part is, survivors can cheat like this as well. Use the cheat software to know who the killer is and choke your connection.
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BP is hard capped so that people that already have every perk under the sun and every p3 outfit cannot immediately level up new characters (Killer, mostly, their powers take time to figure out the counterplay) and gain an unfair advantage over everyone else. This is what the Devs have stated and it actually makes sense, at least in my opinion and experience.
Could the cap be higher? Yeah, probably. It could be a few million higher: it really wouldn't impact the game's economy. A hard cap is good, but not such a small one. People already use dailies and tomes to bypass it somewhat. You could just force dailies and tomes to be turned in and raise the max BP.
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@StutteringSpartan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1259230#Comment_1259230
No I am actually a killer main and use none meta perks, and also use a wide variety of killer. Sounds like your problem is you classify a win as a 4K.
Change your perspective of you can’t let your ego get tarnished. It’s ok for survivors to play better than you in some matches
Please, and in detail, explain what you consider a "win". And don't pull the extremely subjective "I win if I had fun" BS.
And you clearly do not play much killer, don't BS me. There's nothing wrong with not playing killer, but don't pull nonsense out of thin air to make yourself seem respectable. I cannot help but notice you haven't even mentioned those VERY generous numbers I gave you that were best-case scenario for killers playing by the Survivors Rulebook for Killers.
I do not main killer. I do not main survivor. I play both, all the time, and like it or not I can tell that you are either straight-up lying or are deliberately deranking to bully fresh-faced rank 15's. When the killer plays fair, survivors win. That's just how it goes: this is not opinion but mathematics. Minimum generator time is less than half of minimum 12-hook time (it takes about 4 minutes to finish all 5 generators). So killers have to take shortcuts: the nice ones slug and punish farms. The dirty ones softcamp and tunnel. Arseholes facecamp and bring mori's.
I know the pain of dealing with dirty killers. But I know why they are playing dirty. I don't like it, I think the Devs should do something about it, and based off of recent changes they actually are. But it would be nice if people didn't come to forums, brandishing the Survivors Rulebook for Killers and pretending they can 12-hook-2-gen a half-decent team as Pig, Demo or Myers.
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@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1259466#Comment_1259466
I said that before: OF COURSE it is a mess RIGHT NOW, but we can throw the whole system away is we assume that a working ranking does not work. If the system is working correctly, we would just need a rank reset to 20 for everyone. Might be a mess in the first week but then you get to the ranks you belong to. And back in the days, rank 1 wasn't leagues ahead of rank 5.
Okay, so... What? Do you think the Devs will ever make emblems harder, because they definitely will not: they don't want to have to tell people they aren't actually good at the game. This isn't Dev bashing, it's just the logical reason you would do as they are doing: they see "rank" as a problem that causes a lot of tension in the community and so want to hide it. But you can't suddenly hide rank, that would piss everyone off, so they are developing an MMR system and hiding that instead. And the game will be better off than it is in its current state, even if the MMR system is literally the rank system from a year ago.
Yes, all our problems would be solved if it was harder to rank up and they reverted matchmaking/ranking to what it was a year ago (or earlier). But that is NEVER going to happen: this is a toxic, fragile playerbase we're talking about. Try telling 100k Ochido's that they aren't as good as they thought they were and see what happens. The Devs have to do a lot of smoke and mirrors to keep them happy: the doctor rework was written almost entirely from a survivor-based POV, and for good reason.
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@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1259421#Comment_1259421
And rank 5 from my example (purple tier) is one behind rank 1 (red tier). If you treat 4 ranks difference as "leagues ahead", then this game will never have a working matchmaking, because you will never be able to have games purely consisting of equally ranked players across the board. I think even with a tolerance of +-1 this would not be possible without queue times like 30 minutes
RANK. DOESNT. WORK. It is no longer an indicator of skill. It never really was, but now it's completely not because you can barely lose ranks. The Devs themselves said this. The developers. Of the game. Not just the professional content creators whose job it to be good at the game, and the significant majority of the community: the games very own developers. This is the gaping flaw in your example: that killer very likely has NO idea what the hell is happening. They probably only have the basics of mindgames and loops: that's not enough. Not even close.
Rank used to reset every month. Now it really, honestly doesn't: play 10 hours a month and you can maintain your rank 1, because it's super easy to black pip even though you got steamrolled. And that's just as a killer: as survivor, you get steamrolled and PIP! #########! Matchmaking is basically a roulette system: even if it worked perfectly and matched rank 1's against rank 1's, it's just as likely that you are matching babies with GODS. And tbsoe babies can it learn from gods: it's like cranking the game to it's hardest difficulty. This has been well documented. That's WHY the Devs started talking about an MMR system in the first place: they admitted that ranks didn't matter and it was just a personal victory.
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@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1259315#Comment_1259315
Another thing: I can't imagine that they completely removed matchmaking parameters. Then you wouldn't need to wait 8 minutes for a game. It would be kinda "first come first served"
That's pretty much what it is, there's just less killers than survivors which is why it takes 8 minutes. Case in point: ever since matchmaking COMPLETELY broke about 2 months ago, survivor que times actually got a fair bit shorter on average. This pretty much dispelled the OhTofu theory that everything could be blamed on SWF-skewed matchmaking.
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@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1259315#Comment_1259315
Well, first, if we assume that ranks completely mean nothing even if they would work as intended, then we don't need ranking and match making at all. Rank 5 to rank 1 is not leagues ahead. And not sure what you want to say with the context. Do you get more context when playing against the same ranks? It is up to the player if he learns or not. If not, he doesn't get better and therefore doesn't pip (assuming a working system)
Just as an example: In Quake 3 Arena, I played a lot against AI bots. I noticed that I get better when playing against same level bots all the time, resulting in more matches I could win. Then I increased the difficulty, having bad matches, going back to "my" level. Trying again after several days of "training" to increase the level, same result. I just managed to get better significantly by playing against a difficulty that is a bit to hard for me, to get to a point where I started to win matches against them.
Meaning, when you don't play against people mindgaming you, you will never learn mindgaming. Counts for all the other things you need to learn in DBD. That's why I don't give up every chase when the survivor seems too strong for me. I give up the game and try to find ways to catch this guy, to make it better next time
You proved my point with your scenario: You didn't immediately crank the bots to max difficulty. That's what I mean by context: you have to know the previous 'tier' of skill in order to understand what's right and/or wrong about what you are doing now.
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@Speshul_Kitten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1258837#Comment_1258837
Try winning 12 chases with clown on Asylum against any optimal red rank team. If you’re really a killer main you would already know the answer to your own question.
Try winning 12 chases with Nurse or Spirit in that exact same scenario. Optimal gens trumps nice killer any day of the week.
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@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1259218#Comment_1259218
Do you refer to what I said? If yes:
3 ranks 1 with a rank 17 would be an average of 5. A rank 5 killer should not be a low-skill killer, he is on his way to red ranks. So he should at least be close and get some action going, maybe not able to 4k, but will also have a good amount of learning from this match. I think that is ok.
Other scenarios: 1+5+10+15 would get you an average killer rank of ~8. Which would mean, 1 survivors might bully him, the other two are close to his rank and be a good match and one of them being an easy target (like in the first scenario as well). So if you struggle against the god looper, leave him and concentrate on the other 3. Once in a while you might get the rank 1 offguard.
So, yes, the incredible amount of sweaty tryhard full SWF messing up almost random-guess of my matches, that are actually not that far away rank wise, would be ok. Especially compared to the randomness of matchmaking, that puts green rank killers against full red rank teams, how it is currently frequently happening.
DBD currently has (effectively) no matchmaking parameters. They were disabled a while ago. The search parameters now expand too quickly for the old "highest-level-swf" parameter to matter. The game's current MMR system, emblems, is all but ignored. (I really don't care that it's not technically an MMR system, they serve the exact same purpose.)
And no, rank 5 doesn't mean that someone is good (because it's easy to get to rank 1) or that they can learn from their awful experience. To put it bluntly: you cannot learn from someone leagues ahead of you. Learning requires context: if you don't understand the context, you don't learn. This is why throwing people off the deep end usually results in them drowning.
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@ArtCrusade said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1259218#Comment_1259218
What region do you play in? I'm from Germany and hell no my queues aren't instant. I sometimes wait 8-10 minutes at rank 1.
MMR wouldn't fix matchmaking, it'd work atop the Emblem system from my understanding
Its not about the region but the time of day you play, though for posterity I'm from NZ so I think I play on AU servers.
Trying to play killer at peak times is near instant, this has been well documented by both the community and content creators from all regions. You may just be getting unlucky, however. On the flip side, survivor ques take 5-10 minutes.
When I play at midday, it's the precise opposite: Survivor ques are instant, killer takes up to half an hour. And when I actually get a killer match, it's some of the easiest games in my life because the Bully With Frien- Sorry, "Survive" With Friends teams haven't gotten together to just absolutely ruin peoples experiences.
Don't get me wrong, not all SWF teams are like this, but to be perfectly frank it's not fun to go against the ones that aren't abusing meta perks either. It can be, if they suck or meme, but generally speaking I don't go into a match to be someone else's plaything. And against a half-decent 3-4 person SWF, it's just an absolutely awful experience even if they are trying to be nice. You have to play like such a scumbag right from the start to even have a chance, and you have to have the one of the best possible builds in the game. And I'm not talking about some victory condition, like 4k or pip. I just mean a chance to get an actual close game.
And on the flip side of THAT experience is playing survivor with trash teammates against a good killer. This is way too common. Your entire team gets shredded by a Freddy that just got hardcore bullied and is NOT in a merciful mood. You can pull your weight all you want, if everyone in the match was the same skill level you might stand a chance. If not, too bad. And guess what? They're not, because it's solo que and everyone is boosted. Including me. But we're all boosted from different ranks.
This is why some form of MMR is needed: Nothing is good about players bringing, for lack of a better term, the most powerful crutches because they don't have a chance to actually develope some sort of skill. And, in the case of survivor, their random teammates ALSO don't have a chance to develope skill, so they rely on SWF.
If the game had a half-functioning MMR, then "good" players (whether skillful or crutch-users) wouldn't be able to go against "bad" players. That is, in fact, what used to exist with the old ranking system: It wasn't by any means perfect, but at least it was somewhat functional. Sort of.
It was better than this, at least.
Which is why I think that an MMR system, even a bad one, is better than this absolute nightmare of an experience.
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@StutteringSpartan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1258672#Comment_1258672
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1258668#Comment_1258668
You can also easily get 12 hooks per game with 1-2 gens left, and not play Freddy, Huntress, Nurse Billy etc etc.
Like I said it’s a cop out.
I see, you are not actually a killer main. This is good to know.
That, or you only play the tippity toppest of killers with their best meta perks and add-ons.
Seriously, it is mathematically impossible to get 12 hooks before all the generators are finished, assuming you are going against decent survivors. Expecting 1 minute chases, hits, downs and hooks (which is unrealistically low), 12 hooks takes 12 minutes. 5 gens, with 1 survivor working on them, takes 95 seconds (including travel time). Assuming 1 person working on them, that's 8 minutes.
And you know damn well killers don't get a hook a minute if they let survivors go and heal up. And you also know that only 1 survivor on generators at all times is impossible.
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So it's totally okay for tryhard sweaty swfs to get matched against low-skill killers?
DBD needs some sort of proper matchmaking, but the Devs are too focused on the wrong thing. Nobody wants instant ques if they are going to get bullied 4 out of 5 matches. Seriously, it's just plain wrong. Why do you think no-one plays killer at high ranks? The ques are instant.
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@zone_dymo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1259145#Comment_1259145
pretty much but in my head I have the hardcore patrolling kind.
You run up for the unhook:
"oh the killer is back, ok the killer is after me oh dear oh dear....oh wait no, killer is going back? did they see someone else? OH THEY DID QUICKLY NOW...wait...no....no the killer is just coming back....and yep.....yeah I think thaaaat.... yep we got a camper, ok lets do some gens...dude is already in stage 2, this is great."
Bonus points if it's a cloaked wraith "countering" BT and punishing "farms". Had that twice this week.
And a Trapper that never used his traps. That one was wierd. Like, it's a Trapper: you could at least set traps. But no, I wasted a whole minute figuring out he was patrolling, not setting up.
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@zone_dymo said:
Point is, Do gens or dont, the match is over anyway, like what value is there for anyone involved? if it was any sort of tournament it would be disqualified.
Also the real problem is campers who dont appear to camp, by the time you realize they are its already too late, too much time has been wasted.
But like I said, it does not matter, that match has had no value anyway, might as well just run up to the killer and die so you can go to hopefully an actual match after that.
By that do you mean stealth campers? Or or hardcore hook patrolling? Or both, I guess
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The developers themselves have stated that DS exists only to prevent tunelling, and that if it continues to be abused they will look at it once more. Unfortunately, they consider making 2 changes to the same thing in under a year to be 'making knee-jerk decisions.' I am personally shocked that they reverted the Oni nerf, and disheartened that they overbuffed Doctor because by doing so they are reinforcing their own terrible policy.
And you are close: the correct play is to have never been in that situation in the first place. But, if someone is on the hook and the killer downs someone close to them, you should either bum rush the unhook (if there is safety to be had for one of the hooked persons) or leave and do gens. Hook states take 60 seconds to transition, that's plenty of time to patiently plan your next move. The downed person, if they are not put on a hoo,k, should just crawl away and force the killer to make a decision as to whom they should pressure. If you have a decent 4th teammate then you can do the unhook tech, that's a real sneaky one that most people overlook: Force the killer to smack you, and while they are in cooldown the last survivor comes in, yoinks the teammate off the hook, and bodyblock, leaving plenty of time to unhook the other hooked person (or pick them up from the ground) while one of the 3 injured people is getting chased. Once again, however, I cannot overstate the fact that it's the survivors fault for being in that situation in the first place. Very, very occasionally it won't be, but you cannot balance on minority situations. It makes no sense.
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@BigBrainMegMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1258474#Comment_1258474
You're fine. We're on the same page.
It was just confusing, but I get you now. See, it's not that survivors deserve the second chance when the killer is snowballing, it's that you can't just....NOT hit your DS. Hit your DS, continue the chase, if the killer is doing that well, then catching you wouldn't be an issue. But it at least gives a fairer chance for survivors to do something other than just hang on a hook for 2 minutes.
And you're talking about Unnerving Presence. Smaller Skillchecks.
Unnerving doesn't effect DS any more. Overcharge has the same skill check as DS. I honestly wish DS didn't have a skill check, I've had so many games where someone tried to locker DS me and missed, thereby rage quitting.
And sure, I get the whole 'snowball' argument, Unbreakable is a pain but it's not broken by any means. The problem is that people run DS, hook bomb, get 1 DS off and suddenly all the killers map pressure gone because everyone scattered. I know that you cannot change DS without getting rid of the hook bomb potential, but all the killer has to do is confuse 2 blendettes...
DS is complicated, not because of how people can use it but because of what it does to the game in general. Maybe that's why I hate it so much: I go out of my way to avoid people that just got unhooked, to the point of wasting my time looking for the unhooker AND FAILING, and still get DS'd by that same person because they 59 seconded me after their second hook. If I get punished for playing nice, why play nice? Well, because I have empathy and I hate getting farmed by my teammate, too. But if I didn't care...
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@MPUK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1258438#Comment_1258438
No, that isn't what I am saying at all. They aren't invincible for a minute in any way. You can hit them, it doesn't stop you from hitting them, it stops them from going back on a hook for 1 minute after being unhooked. That's it. Which seems prettyreasknable to me since it is a really ######### experience getting tunnelled off a hook.
As for multiple people having it active at the same time, if you're doing so well on your hooks and you're close enough to be able to down and get stunned by both of these people within their respective minute. I am pretty certain you have been close enough to that hook to have seen at least one person doing the unhooking that hasn't just come off a hook, BUT you don't want those healthy survivors, you want to try for the one hit down and get them back on the hook as soon as possible, but then it backfires and it is off to the forum for a rant.
Yes it is single use and yet still killers moan endlessly about that single use perk. I'm not entitled in any way, you're saying that the downside to a single use perk is that you may not get to use but at the same time you are on a thread about DS supporting the person who is annoyed when people DO get to use it, there is the entitlement. I want a kill no matter what, a perk shouldn't stop me doing that. A single 5 second stun allegedly ruins their entire game and you get BS excuses like "Everyone got out but only because that Kate had DS" how would that impact EVERYONE escaping?
I don't even use DS so accuse me of being "entitled" as much as much as you like but I'm not the one crying at the devs to give me free kills because I can't play properly.
So in your world:
1. Survivor A goes on a hook.
2. Survivor B goes for the save but gets intercepted by the killer and hit.
3. Survivor C sees Survivor B has been hit and goes to get survivor A off the hook.
4. Survivor B goes down and is being carried to a hook near survivor A's hook.
5. Survivor C unhooks Survivor A
6. Two seconds later Survivor B goes on the hook.
7. Killer has direct line of sight on Survivor A who has been unhooked proceeds to chase them.
8. Survivor A goes down and because survivor B was hooked 2 seconds AFTER survivor A was unhooked.
9. Survivor A's DS has been deactivated and the killer can put them straight back on the hook.
That isn't going to create really obvious plays of killers waiting for survivors to be unhooked before hooking another survivor to purposefully deactivate any potential DS allowing them to go right for the tunnel is it?
Can you please reread your own scenario and tell me the basic counterplay to this strategy that doesn't require perks in any way? I would love that, thanks. It's pretty obvious, and is the exact same year that people that dont run DS use. If you cannot think of it, let me know and I will tell you.
And no, just because you got hooked twice in a minute doesn't mean you got tunelled. If you get farmed, that's in your teammate. If the killer goes back to the hook and find no-one but you, that's on your teammate. Or you, if you Kobe'd. And if you are actually getting hard tunelled? Yeah, DS should be a thing. One of the best suggestions so far is having it last 20 seconds that doesn't go down in a chase or while slugged, and the perk deactivates when you perform an action that isnt healing or vaulting. Unhook someone? DS is gone. Touch a gen? DS is gone. If you could perform these actions, you weren't getting tunelled. Clearly.
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@BigBrainMegMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1258438#Comment_1258438
You contradicted yourself.
Are you against or for the usage and effects of DS? Please be more clear in your post. First half seems like you're against its effect, and the second half sounds like you're for it because it's a 1 time use perk.
In response to your first half: DS is not overpowered, it only gets to be used if you let it be used.
And you're complaining that a perk halts the snowballing of killers? What's the problem if the stops the snowballing of killers and give survivors some breathing room? It seems like the killer is doing VERY well on his own enough to even take a few seconds off his snowballing.
You're complaining about a killer that's snowballing not getting to snowball harder, when he's doing perfectly fine already. Seems like the killer is doing JUST FINE and a few seconds wouldn't hinder him.
In response to your second half:
It's a one time use perk, and it never guarantees an escape, you have to hit the skillcheck. Yes, it's a rather large skill check but that still doesn't guarantee your free escape.
You went off the road with the last 3 sentences, I don't understand them.
I'm not against DS if it's not abused. But it is, a lot. And honestly, don't use the skill check argument. It's lame. If you miss your DS, ease let me.know so I can run Overcharge against you when I see you in my lobbies.
Snowballing hooks - and I specifically mean hooks, not slugging - never happens because the killer is doing well, only when the survivors are sucking hard. If your team sucks, why do you deserve a second chance? Please, explain.
And I never contradicted myself. You just assume a black-and-white argument. Nothing about DS is cut and dried. If it worked like it should and only gets activated when a killer is tunelling, who cares. Run it. When I ran it, I would deliberately miss the skill check if I didn't actually get tunneled. I only stabbed the killer once in every 6-7 matches.
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@SmarulKusia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1258199#Comment_1258199
I didn't prove it's a measure of time, if it was a measure of time, then my friend that has played the game for years would be at red ranks. But he's not. Devotion is the measure of time - you cannot go into a game and do nothing and still rank up. lol
You cannot even see what you typed, can you? You got to red ranks in 2 months. You played a hell of a lot of dbd in 2 months. Who cares about the casual players that never make it, you put in the time to get there in 2 damn months. I literally cannot play a game for that long. I don't have the free time.
Let's look at this another way: rank 1 used to go down to rank 10 each monthly reset. To get back to rank 1, you had to invest about 50-60 hours playing DBD and not absolutely sucking. In those days, no-one cared about the people with Devotion 10 that had never been at purple ranks, because they didn't invest that much time into the game. That, or they clearly sucked. Like me. Now, in order to MAINTAIN rank 1, you have to win 21 matches. To maintain the coveted "red ranks", you had to win 5. That's playing about 2 hours a month. That is nothing in a game like DBD. In the old system, you had to maintain red ranks by winning a bare minimun of 30 matches a month. You actually did even more than that. In the last 2 months, you have played this game.more intensity than most rank 1 survivors ever have. THAT is what people care about in an online PvP game: not hours total that you farmed by sucking, but hours invested in a select time frame (in this case, a month).
I can confidently say that you have played more DBD in 2 months than I ever have I'm the same time frame. And I've been playing this game for over a year now.
But, going back to the whole 'rank isn't time played' thing, generally speaking it is absolutely not. In your case, it very much is (that is a LOT of dbd for 2 months), and in the old DBD it actually used to be important, but people have a difficult time breaking habits.
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@MPUK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/150555/decisive-strike
It isn't an anti tunnelling perk though. It has been labelled as that but it isn't JUST that. It is a perk that is active for 1 minute after being unhooked.
Someone has spent an entire perk slot on it, why should it get deactivated just because a couple of people got unhooked in quick succession? That could result in one person getting 2 seconds of use out of a perk. It also means a killer with 2 survivors on a hook would always try and tunnel the first one off the hook and wait for the second to be unhooked, anticipating that both would have had DS equipped and he is now free to pick the first one up seconds after they game off the hook.
So your argument is that it's perfectly okay for someone to have 1 minute of complete invulnerability? And that it's even better if MORE than 1 person is completely invulnerable?
The effect of DS is borderline overpowered. 5 seconds of stun time? That's HUGE. The only reason the Devs allow it to exist is because they label it an 'anti-tunnel' perk and SUPPOSEDLY punishes an undesirable playstyle. And if it was just for anti-tunnel purposes, fine. That is literally supposed to be the risk of DS: you may simply not get to use it because the killer is playing nice. Too bad, should have brought a different perk. Hindsight is a #########.
But you want Killers to get punished for snowballing HOOKS? What the actual hell is wrong with you? The only way the killer can get multiple hooks in quick succession is if the survivors are massively, massively screwing up. But you are right, as it is now survivors have a free escape that they abuse consistantly.
Also "someone has spent an entire perk slot on it". Holy shite, the entitlement. That is the downside of 1-use perks: you might not GET TO USE THEM! That's the point! If the killer hooks you, you get unhooked, they hook someone else, YOU ARE NOT GETTING TUNELLED AND SHOULDNT GET CAUGHT, YOU HAD AT LEAST 10-20 SECONDS TO RUN AWAY AND HIDE. YES, EVEN FROM BBQ AND CHILLI. I know, because I do it all the damn time against actually good killers that still steamroll my arse because they were quite simply better than me and I didn't equip my 4 second-chance perks.
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@Bovinity said:
Daily reminder that it's the killers job to kill you.
Not sure why people still persist in acting as if it's the killers job to throw you a party and make sure you have a great time or something. It's YOUR job to enjoy the game your playing.
It is absolutely the killers job to kill all 4 survivors. 100% agree. I get farmed off a hook, I blame my teammate (unless it was a facecamping wraith). The killer comes back and chases my injured arse over the healthy, stealthing survivor? Still my teammates fault. The killer prioritises me over the 2 healthy people bodyblocking me? I get facecamped and hard tunnelled? I get bleed out while the killer watches? No, that's just the killer being an arse and ignoring their objective to kill 1 person. And unfortunately, most of those people use that very same excuse, because hey, they secured a kill. 1 kill. So I think we should collectively change it to "It's the killers job to kill EVERYONE".
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@SmarulKusia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1256903#Comment_1256903
It's not - I only started playing 2 months ago, and im rank 1 survivor and rank 5 killer lol, and i don't even have 60% of the perks unlocked. It's absolutely not a measure of time as I have friends who played the game since release and are 'hard stuck' in green/purple ranks.
You literally proved its a measure of time. You honestly cannot just pick up this game, barely play it, and get to rank 1. You had to win, assuming you won every match but didn't 2 pip, 225 trials in 2 months. Does it mean that you've been playing the game for long? No, devotion does that (it's essentially a record of your hours in the trials). But people still insist on using rank because, like I said, that's what they've already been doing. Habits are hard to break. And that's not even including the ease at which survivors pip with certain perks or killers pip with certain killers.
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@SmarulKusia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1256768#Comment_1256768
I don't think the argument of devotion even works here. Most people think that rank is a measure of how much one has spent playing the game which i find laughable. but yeah,
Rank IS measure of how much someone has played them game. It's just not as accurate as devotion. But devotion itself isn't accurate, so people use rank because they've always used rank and are conditioned to think it's important even though you have to play 5 matches a month to maintain rank 4.
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@Peanits said:
It's because Feral Frenzy is a special attack, not a basic attack. If it were a basic attack, it would have to work with other things (like Exposed, which would be pretty nuts).
So the quest to normalise killers doesn't take into account why the killers aren't 'normal' in the first place? Legions power FF hits worked with everything BUT exposed.
RIP pigs fun terror radius that made her stealth somewhat okay and now forces 2 very valuable perk slots instead of 1.
RIP legions basic perk synergy that didn't even elevate them to perkless billy levels with their strongest builds.
I'm guessing wraith getting PWYF stacks by activating cloak is next. It's been fun, I suppose.
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The reward for getting to rank 1 is that your opinion suddenly matters!
I wish I could say I was joking, but too many people actually take that seriously. If we want to use the play-time argument let's all look at devotion level.
Seriously, I've crawled through 2 rank reset bugs now. My games did not change one bit, nor did the absolute rainbow of teammates and opponents.
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Uh, maybe you don't realise this, but ranged hits are all server-side. Which means that the killer having high ping makes her unplayable. Even a moderate amount, say 80 ping, is borderline horrible. Hatchets regularly pass through survivors hitboxes. As in, right through the damn chest.
Same with Plague, same with Deathslinger. High ping = robbed hits. The higher the ping, the more hits that get robbed. If a survivor has higher ping, they are practically immortal. It's the one time VPNing survivors are a real problem.
I agree that Huntress needs fixing. Plague needs it more, but Huntress definitely gets robbed way too much. At least her hatchets are big enough that sometimes the hit registers on the back end of the hitbox as the rest is phasing through the survivors little pill.
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@Bovinity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1256698#Comment_1256698
Not gonna lie, I really, really wanted to love Spirit. But I'm an extremely visual person (Isn't everyone? I dunno.) and not seeing people just throws me off big time.
That and literally any game I played as Spirit, people complained about "OP KILLER #########" in post-game and I got tired of it. :D
Personally, I'm a very auditory person. I like knowing where someone is because they walked too loudly. Which is maybe why I don't like Freddy unless I just want to farm BP, between his dream world and the myriad sound bugs that have been plaguing DBD since a little before Oni's release, I cannot track survivors at all. Scratch marks throw me off, blood is difficult to see, plus the whole dream world is extremely dark.
Then I DARE to go play stridorless spirit against a team that clearly has 2 BNP's, a map and a key and somehow I'm the arsehole after eating 16 second chances. I don't even have a good sound card...
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Freddy is easily one of the most overrated killers in DBD, simply because he is very, VERY easy to play. Spam snares, spam fake teleports, hit. Spam snares, spam fake teleports, down. BBQ. Teleport. Pop. Spam snares, spam fake teleports, hit...
Then look at killers such as Ghostface, Hag, Huntress, Plague, Deathslinger... All of these are killers that have more potential to chase, snowball, or both. And they are also extremely, extremely difficult to play well. Ghostface and Plague are also somewhat addon-dependant (recharge and apples) and ping dependent, but still have far more potential. But these killers are far more difficult, and so people don't Git Gud at them when slappy spam-spam is sitting right there. Why get bullied trying to get better at a killer when you can do the bullying?
Then you have the top killers, Nurse Spirit, Billy... They are all far stronger, hands down. But, once again, far harder. Unless you have cash to burn on your PC, in which case Spirit takes the cake as 'easiest killer in dbd'.
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@Huff said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1256249#Comment_1256249
Which would still get you banned, no?
Even if it's not bannable, this is exactly why they need to re-implement killer ping indicator. If I see somebody with hundreds of ping trying to connect to the server I'm more than likely gonna just say "yeah, no thanks."
I can't stand going against killers that are constantly from China or some crap where I can pre vault a window as early as possible, get a running head start, and still get downed because the swing at a window, where whenever I'm killer and swing at a window I feel like the survivor practically has to be just going through the window for me to be allowed to hit them. It's just simply not fair that I can't see ######### the killer is even gonna do because it's so laggy.
Survivors never had a direct indicator of the killers ping, only the 'server' (the killers pc) on which it was being run. Literally nothing changed in that regard, although I would like it if all players could see each others ping. Nothing is worse than going against survivors with bad ping as Plague/Hag/Huntress/Deathslinger/Ghostface/Myers and maybe even Demo (don't play him enough to accurately tell, but I've had my lunge 'miss' survivors that I definitely hit).
Edit: Yes, I believe lag switching and connection choking is bannable. But as with all offences, you need video evidence because people are scumbags and abuse the 'report' function.
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@Kolossoni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1256247#Comment_1256247
Traveling would be running/walking from point A to point B.
Demo & Nurse does that within seconds. That's more closer to teleporting than traveling...
And yet not the same. Nurses travel speed makes her jukeable (remember Omega Blink nurse? THAT was teleportation). Demo's makes him really ######### slow going from one side of the map to the other, which makes him completely worthless as an ambush killer. Seriously, his portals are barely worth mentioning when talking about demo's power. Even going from one portal to another on the same tile is almost half a second of travel time, not including the animation lock.
Plus, having killers with different movement is fun. Billy has his sprint, Nurse has blinks, Hag has teleportation, Demo has his lunge, Oni has I-#########-HATE-YOU mode... I guess what I'm trying to say is that I really hate m1 killers because they are boring and map-dependant. Yay, you got me, woo hoo, all it took was 3 minutes of mindless looping, yay.
Then Hag rolls up and sets out a web and you've got some decisions to make...
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@JoeyBob said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1256019#Comment_1256019
Would you get banned for it since it gives you an unfair advantage?
I believe it may come under the heading of 'lag switching'.
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Actually, Freddy and Hag are the only teleporting killers in the game. Demogorgon and Nurse both travel, albeit quickly. It's actually quite noticeable once you get used to the game: you can juke a nurse, even a good one, if you can get in her head.
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Yes and no: I've accidentally left my VPN on, had 80 or so ping, lost every match because I couldn't hit anyone as killer or kept rubber-banding as survivor. My bad, I've got to remember to turn it off. It happens maybe once a week for 1 match: I just forget, jump into the game, have an awful time because I did a dumb. If I VPN over to the US or EU, giving myself 200-300 effective ping? People literally look like they are running into walls. As a survivor it's impossible to play. As killer it's a field day. I know, I deliberately tested this. It's not fair.
In short, it depends how much you choke your connection. Small choke = disadvantage. Big choke = mega advantage as killer/mega disadvantage as survivor.
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@StutteringSpartan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1255631#Comment_1255631
Thanks for the mature in depth response 👌🏻
I kept it at a base level as too many variables come into it. Survivors spawning next to a gen, are survivors running small game, detectives hunch, is it a ######### map. Etc etc
the counter argument would be ‘I don’t wanna have a wasted perk’ yet people are happy to run DS & BT against people who tunnel 🤷🏻♂️.
I’ve been playing survivor a lot more and the amount of survivors I’ve personally seen run straight past a totem and not even bother is mind boogling. 3 people on a gen, and I’m the one who cleanses the totem. The other two ran off. And then have the audacity to complain about NOED.
I’m not saying survivors should run around the map and make sure you can find five broken totems because that’s impossible.
what I am saying is if survivors lose their ignorance towards totems, you’ll probably find NOED procs a lot less
If survivors lose their ignorance toward totems, NOED won't even need to get activated. That's the biggest problem with NOED: it's not activated by the killers prowess, but by the team's "negligence". Except that it's not exactly negligent to do your objective in solo que, because your team always has that 1 person not really being productive. Except now it has 2 because you also have that other person looking for "dull totem" number 6.
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I know, right? Survivors 'hit' hitboxes are so damn tiny, all they have to do is jiggle a little and your lunge will miss! 360's never made me miss a lunge, now I can't land one on someone that tapped the A key! And forget using ranged killers at more than 60 ping, I mean DAMN... Huntress can do okay, but Plague? Deathslinger? DEMOGORGON? Hells, even Hag has issues!
Plus they've changed the way window hits work, now a fast vault is completely safe unless the killer is inserting themselves into your butt head-first! Great, remove SOME infinites and completely screw over killers with more than 60 ping.
Oh, wait, you were bitching about server latency, not hitbox interactions.... My bad... Oh, wait, I was doing the same thing but from the killers perspective... Oh, wait, hitboxes are fine, it's just server lag that makes wierd shite happen...
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@StutteringSpartan said:
4 x survivors.
5 x gens 80 seconds per gen = 4:00 minutes based off 1 x survivor
chances are you come across these totems they’re just not a priority in survivors heads. Yet survivors state they take too long to cleanse..... 5 x totems 14 seconds perk totem = 70 seconds for 5 totems. You can’t say you don’t have time to do totems.....
Hypthecially say the killer only got 2 hooks all game, he got a third during EGC and Devour Hope procs It’s the exact same thing as NOED (besides the speed boost). Only DH will likely be cleansed early game because of the “Oooo shiny!” Mentality.
On the opposite end if the killer is constantly hooking, engaged in chases etc. Then the killer is simply better than your team. If he has NOED so be it. Blaming a 3 perk killer for 1 perk that’s activated in the final 2 minutes of gameplay, instead of acknowledging survivors ignorance.....
I’m not saying you’ll find all five totems every single game, but if all survivors change their mentality they’ll all be cleansed more often than not.
A simple all rounded survivor acknowledgment of totems are priorities would make NOED obsolete and killers would stop running it.
But go ahead, make a valid argument on how it’s not ignorance I’ll wait.....
This isn't taking into account the time it takes to search for totems, the difficulty of spotting dull totems in many totem spawns, or the fact that most players are solo que and cannot communicate to their team how many totems they have done.
If there was a giant totem.in the middle of the map that took 70 seconds to cleanse, you might have a point.
Just so you are aware, an average search time for a totem is about 40 seconds. Assuming you only stumble upon 2 totems (including time to get there and cleanse, we'll call that 35 seconds). It then takes you another 3(40+14) = 162 seconds. Manageable for a good swf team, perhaps.
But what happens if you aren't a good swf team? What happens if you simply do not spot the totem your teammate destroyed? How much time will yiu waste before giving up? What happens if you waste all this time (and I'm giving you some really small numbers here) and you don't get to the last gen because the killer isn't even running NOED? What happens if you simply cannot find the 5th totem? How much time did you waste then? What happens if cleansing all totems immediately became meta? How much time would people waste searching for totems that don't even exist? How many games would have every dull cleansed in 2 minutes but have every survivor sacrificed because they were trying to find totems that had already been cleansed instead of doing their objective?
The 'counterplay' is stronger than the perk itself, which in itself is only a problem because it's an unearned second chance perk. You can literally get it by AFKing. That's not fair.
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Dying light is a terrible perk. It's only good on Legion (because you actually want them to group up and heal). Even Plague doesn't get much benefit.
Thana is similar. Sure, at max stacks you add 12 seconds to a gen, but on average you will only have 1 or 2 stacks.
These perks do, however, shine on one particular killer: Legion. Because getting people injured is easy as they already have built-in slowdown (mending) you can use them with PGTW or maybe even Ruin for the ultimate gen slowdown.
To a lesser extent they can also be good on Nurse or Spirit, but if you are a good Nurse or good Spirit there are better perks to run.
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The rules I follow are pretty simple. Mostly.
Killer:
Play nice til someone does you a dirty. No tunelling unless object of tunnel does a scummy play (see below), no facecamping EVER.
If it's early game, play even nicer. Don't punish farms. Let them have a match.
Don't run: NOED, ebony/ivory Mori, tombstone piece.
Don't use Stridor on spirit. My soundcard and headphones don't let me take much advantage, but the survivors don't know that.
No BM.
Accept boops.
Survivor:
Don't run infinites. Use the window to escape? Sure. Run it? No.
DS only when actually deserved (so rare I never run it). No locker DS, no 59-second DS, no immortality abuse.
Never combo DS/Unbreakable.
Never use OoO, the killer cannot tell you are solo.
Never use a key. If I plunder a key, I hold on to it or hide it. If someone else uses a key, I sacrifice myself to make up for robbed points. Who tf cares, I'm playing survivor, I pip for breakfast and black pip in my sleep.
Never spam noises.
Never BM when I am in a safe position. I will t-bag and give the pointer all day long after sandbagging myself. You're an arse if you do it after dropping a safe pallet on an m1 killer
Don't abuse snoot boops. If killer lets me boops, I am chill.
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@LetsPlayTogether said:
So tunneling and camping is okay?
As long as people continue to think 'tunneling' is downing someone and 'camping' is putting them on a hook, then yeah.
I try really hard to play nice even against survivors that don't extend me the same courtesy. I don't think I've eaten an actual deserved DS in half a year. I honestly don't remember why I play nice sometimes. At this point, if the survivors lose, you tunnelled them and facecamped their grandma. Let's all ignore the fact that you got 12 hooks.
I really do see it as comparable to the 'clearly a swf, that's why you won' thing.
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
Why do you care about your rank though? It means nothing. You get no reward for ranking up.
Normally you care so you don't bully people that have very little skill AND very little playtime. Rank may be a joke, but at least a terrible rank 1 player knows the drill and is (hopefully) trying to improve themselves.
But the matchmaking is broken now, so yay. Let's all bully rank 20's because we have no way of knowing someone's rank pre-match.
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Funny thing: I don't ever run DS and I rarely get tunneled. Maybe it's because I haven't been conditioned to think that actually using DS means I got tunelled.
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Deadzones really shouldn't spawn generators, imo. It would be better if they didn't spawn in the first place, but the fact that they spawn gens is insulting.