LazyPayday
LazyPayday
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@Atrushan88 said:
I dunno what people are complaining about. I still have 5 challenges left, and 2 are master challenges, and I'm tier 70. I think the majority of players complaining only play one side, because you get bonus exp for your first game playing killer and survivor each. I didn't even play every day, and have 5 days left.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/961240#Comment_961240
When I played Fortnite and bought the battle pass I never ended up finishing it. That said, I wasn't a hardcore Fortnite player, but I only remember getting around tier 24 or so on it playing nearly every day. I finished DBDs with 5 days left and that was without playing every day. Fortnite's system also pretty much tried to push you into buying tiers by giving you an outfit that had upgradeable looks at higher tiers, so you felt pressured to complete the outfit. I only wanted David's tank top in this battle pass super hardcore, but all the other stuff was nice to get on top of that. I really liked Huntress' new axe, the Trapper mask, all the charms, Billy's shotgun, Wraith's outfit, Meg's shirt(not her hair because that #########'s ugly asf), Nea's top(again same with Nea's hair), and Jake's outfit.
The fact that the archives screw over players that only main one side is a problem for another day.
However, I have to disagree with you completely. I just think that you're probably in the minority that play this game enough consistently to not even notice the grind. The rest of us who actually can't play this game for that long of a time (especially when the progress is so absurdly slow) are obviously going to complain that it's too grindy. It is literally not possible for you to not play for an absurd amount of time and get to tier 70 while not even doing 5 challenges.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/961185#Comment_961185
As I said, it remains to be seen whether the Rift was accessible to the average player or not. If, after the Rift ends, it turns out that around half the playerbase was able to complete it, then maybe we can conclude that it was accessible to the average player. That's something I'm personally interested in finding out.
I agree that the grind can be tedious, and could use improvements. I acknowledged as much in my original comment. I just don't think that, in the case of the first Rift, that can be blamed entirely on the developers, since changes made as a result of player complaints also contributed to the overall grind. Perhaps increasing the Rift fragment gain from the challenges would have helped - I'm not entirely sure why they didn't do that, to be honest. I doubt it was to try and get back at the players, though, since that would be a pretty stupid motivation from a business standpoint.
I didn't say we should be generous with criticism, although I tend to lean that way myself. I just think we should be fair - or rather, just - in our criticism, and only criticise things that are actually deserving of it. I see a lot of people criticising the devs on the basis of things they never said, like the "casual players" thing. I believe that if we're going to criticise them, we should criticise things worth criticising. Which is what you seem to be doing, for the most part, so I commend you for that.
I'm also not sure how they got their estimate so badly wrong either, unless they weren't taking queue times and failed challenges into account. But again, I believe that we can give them the benefit of the doubt there and assume good intent, not because we're being generous but because it makes rational sense. If they knew that that figure was false, they wouldn't have published it, because it was only a matter of time before the players figured out that something was up (which they did almost instantly, in this case) and that could only be detrimental to PR.
Yeah, you're right. I'm just being extremely pessimistic I doubt they really would be so bold as to purposely lie but it just one grand mistake that caused a huge annoyance. I also acknowledge that it is unlikely that they were petty enough to do it as revenge but my point still stands that a lot of these large problems couldn't been solved had a little more thought been taken in. I also should be fair in that it still isn't absolute statistics wise. However, I seriously doubt this to be considered average unless everyone is in the red ranks. Well everyone will be by the end of this but that's beside the point.
I know it's too late to fix anything now and the damage has already been done, but there is one thing I want. I want the statistics of how many people got tier 70 WITHOUT buying shards. I don't want them to be under the assumption that buying shards is average. Purchasing shards should be a last resort, not a necessity. That's why I feel like a large portion of people bought shards in a desperate attempt to actually get to 70. This massive failure of a debut has a large chance that a more than normal amount of players bought shards to actually get their rift maxed out. I'm not wrong in thinking that this should be relatively common right? Considering how bad the grind is.
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@Pok said:
When I finished the archives, I was at tier 60, and almost all my games in the last months were played with a challenge (not saying I got them all on the first try). The last 10 tiers are hell for me, it's fun at the beginning, but now it's just playing again and again for baby steps.. I played a lot more than usual since november, I don't see how I was supposed to finish it with 1 hour a day. Maybe they should decrease to 60 or 65 tiers? Or have each tier worth 700 xp? Or add more challenges/rift fragments per challenge? I liked the challenges, but if it stays so grindy, I don't think I will bother with the pass next rift
Don't know how you were so lucky to get to tier 60 after completing all your challenges. I'm jealous if i'm being honest, if you still have free time, load up the match as a killer and just be afk, a stealth one preferably. Trust me, if you can do that all day, it'll be much easier. I did that for twenty tiers and it was hell on earth so it should just be a nightmare for you. Good Luck!
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@Mat_Sella said:
So my friend gifted me the battle pass for Fortnite, which coincidentally is also 10$.
I have never played Fortnite since it was in Alpha, and had always judged it with a biased eye for no apparent reason.
Yet, my god, is that maybe 10X less grindy than DBD's rift, with significantly better rewards.
Yes, I get it, DBD does not have the team and budget that Fortnite does, but the overall experience is significantly better, as it doesn't seem like I'm exhausting myself trying to advance in a system that i paid for.
Also, the challenges in Fortnite were much more streamlined, and rarely involved something you wouldnt normally do unless it could be done in one match, or didnt make you go out of your way.
I never thought in my life i'd choose any aspect of Fortnite over another game, but they simply do it right. The pass has a value, the pass is fun, the pass does not feel grindy. These are the things that DbD should strive for.
Warframe has a slightly more grindy experience with "Nightwave" in comparison to Fortnite , but it still doesnt make you feel like you're pulling teeth just to advance, and you are giving an extreme amount of time to complete Nightwave's.
Overall, the DbD battle pass experience is lackluster, I wouldnt mind it as much if the rewards were better, but there's barely anything I could care about.
Even if this doesn't have much to do with my topic, I just want to comment on it.
While I do agree that as a whole, the Fortnite battlepass is significantly better, with superior rewards and less grind, but I completely disagree about the challenges part. Fortnite has a terrible tendency to give challenges that just send you on a treasure hunt or some sort of goose chase without actually participating in normal gameplay. It's one of the reasons I didn't like the game. The battlepass was the only reason to play the game (unless you purely play it for fun) yet a great deal of challenges encourage not participating in normal gameplay. Not that I like the gameplay anyways but still.
I found myself spending a great deal of time spending matches not actually playing the match, but going around the map collecting and doing odd things. Both game's way about going challenges are bad examples in my opinion. Fortnite spends a great deal of challenges encouraging players to not participate in normal gameplay, and DBD encourages players to instead farm or give up the match just to complete the tedious challenges that don't offer a significant enough reward for it to be considered worth it.
You just have no other choice but to complete these challenges if you want any chance of completing it.
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@doitagain_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/960782#Comment_960782
Yes I know why people do it and I didn’t bother watching this persons clip but from my experience it has killed me more than it’s helped in matches.
It could be just bad luck or poor decision making on your end, if you're already injured then you really shouldn't be the one leading the charge and if you're the last one left then that one second delay will rarely cause your death. I'd recommend dead hard if you have that poor luck when it comes to this.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/960730#Comment_960730
I wasn't trying to excuse anything, just making sure we're being fair in our criticism.
On that note, the devs never said that the Rift would be completable by "casual" players. They said "the average player" would be able to complete it, which isn't the same thing. "Casual" implies that anyone should be able to complete it, but "average" actually means that around half of the playerbase won't be able to complete it. People have conflated the two and so blamed the devs for something they never said, which I don't think is fair. Whether or not the Rift was actually completable by the average player remains to be seen, but it was never meant for "casual" players.
The 70-80 hour estimate was clearly off, I agree, and should be called out as such. Players are right to complain about having to put around double the time into the Rift than they were apparently supposed to.
When it comes to challenge difficulty, though, I can think of only one challenge in the entire Tome which was actually unreasonable and deserved to be changed. Whether the challenges overall were "absurd" is a matter of perspective, but if you're approaching them on the assumption that "casual" players - that is, basically anyone - should be able to complete them all fairly easily, then I can see why you would say that.
You are right, average is different from casual, that's my bad.
But this clearly isn't meant for the average either (At least in my opinion it isn't). If we're talking about average in both playtime and skill, then this is still surpassing it. Your average player isn't going to spend days upon days grinding out this game for the challenges, especially when they're told it was going to be easier than it actually is. They'll give up after purchasing the pass when they realize the time required isn't worth it and feel like they've been cheated.
Of course people like me who grind it out because they want to get their money's worth will feel even more cheated because they actually had to struggle when the reward was clearly inferior to the effort they put in. Like I said, I only worked towards it because I like having exclusive items. As for the challenges, I agree with you, I only see one challenge being completely unreasonable no matter the player as well. However, my point still stands that the time required to complete them is unreasonable. It's tedious to complete the challenges and the reward feels lackluster because of it. Either increase the reward for each of the challenges, or keep them as they are and add a fifth level to the archives.
My main complaint isn't really the challenges themselves, it's just a salt in the wound. However, I feel that if they had increased the rewards for the challenges then they've would've killed two birds with one stone. I'm not talking about the bloodpoints, people barely care about that, it's just a bonus when the actual desire is the rift fragments. Increasing the amount of rift fragments, even if it was only by a slim margin, would've drastically changed the amount of time required to max out the rift. I just feel like the devs did that whole warning thing because they wanted to get back at us for actually complaining on how they designed it. The pass seems like it forces you to buy tiers to complete it already and when the community complained that the challenges themselves were unreasonable for the reward given, they did this as a sort of petty revenge. Of course this is how I see it and I may just be being pessimistic.
It's just that it was clear as day that this would just trade one problem for another if this was how they decided to solve it. The already wrong 70 hours was only worsened when they decided to lessen the reward while making it easier. And that's why I have to disagree with you on the matter that we should be generous with our criticism. I believe that being as brutal as humanly possible is the necessary route to take. In my opinion, we should acknowledge that this is their first attempt, so of course there was room for error while being strict so they don't get the idea in their head that this type of treatment is okay. It was a blatant lie that it would only take 70 hours and I don't think it still would've reached anywhere near that time frame even if they hadn't touched the challenges. It just astonishes me that they managed to get their estimations so massively wrong. They just messed up so badly with this that being generous would only add a toxic element to the game. Right now, people are just so desperate to complete the already limited challenges that they don't play normally and the game actually encourages them to be afk after completing them all, it isn't healthy for the game.
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@AvisDeene said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/960757#Comment_960757
I actually agree with you. They need to have more of a balance with their paid and shard cosmetics. Unfortunately, Behavior is in it for the money, and as for most businesses, money trumps everything.
At the very least, I wish they would make the cosmetics cheaper and aim for volume sales rather than less sales for higher prices.
Well personally, I don't believe the price is unreasonable. At first I was outraged like everyone else. But when compared to things like fortnite, I started to see that while it is ten dollars for a single skin, there is greater evils out there. Also I just want to mention while dbd is ten dollars on pc, it's thirty on console. Now we do get more dlc that to start off, the console players don't have the decision on what among those dlcs that they want, it's completely forced alongside the game. But the supporting the game argument annoys me. I buy the dlcs and that supports the devs as well, why should I be obligated to purchase every and anything just because I need to support them? I want a reason to actually play the game and those cosmetics help, when I was told the pyromaniac skin was going to be free, I grinded to get enough shards to get it. Just to realize I once again needed cash to get it.
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@doitagain_ said:
Yeah I agree I hate when people 99 the doors. Just OPEN them.
99'ing the doors is an intelligent decision that allows survivors the time they need to come up with a plan to save their teammates, opening the door carelessly only helps the killer cause now as long as he puts proper pressure, the survivors will be unable to do all that they can under the time limit. She died because of her mistakes, the teammates made the right decisions in that they have borrowed, 99'd the gate, and were prepared to body block, it was her carelessness that caused her to fail, not her teammates making the right call.
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@AvisDeene said:
The game is only ten bucks, it’s practically free. The devs need a constant stream of income to maintain it, run the servers, and pay their salaries.
I have no problem with them selling cosmetics, I just wish they would make interchangeable ones that all our survivors can wear.
While I do understand and support that, I just think it's unfair that some killers have free cosmetics while some don't. I get that for licensed killers but for their own unlicensed killers, it does come off that they have noticed that hillbilly's skins tend to sell more so they're reluctant to sell them for shards. I'm not asking for all skins to be purchasable with shards, I just want a single skin that can be purchased for shards on my killer. I'm even more disappointed to know that the new pyromaniac skin cannot be bought for shards so it further strengthens my belief that they are indeed refusing to make his skins like that because they gain the most profit. I bought the pants I wanted with real cash, but it disappoints me to see another skin that was again, cannot be obtained by people who can't afford it.
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@Fibijean said:
To be fair, it was originally designed so that people would be able to complete all or at least much more of the Rift just by doing challenges. This was taking into account Rift Fragments earned from master challenges, as well as estimated time to complete each challenge relative to the challenge's difficulty.
Because players complained that the challenges in Level III were too hard, many of the challenges in Levels III and IV were made easier, and half of the Level IV challenges were converted from master challenges to regular challenges. The effect of this is that while the challenges themselves are easier to complete, the progress earned from completing them is reduced overall. The devs warned us that this would be the case when they originally agreed to reduce the difficulty.
TL;DR - Although the Rift is by no means perfectly designed and the grind definitely could be reduced, the fact that it is as grindy as it is is largely the fault of player complaints rather than a flaw in the design.
While that is a valid point, it is not an excuse. The devs themselves also said that "casual" players could do it as well. However upon seeing the challenges that were clearly pass the definition of "casual" (through a bug to make it worse) that would by no means be all completed with another claim of theirs that was that the rift could be completed in one hour a day, so people obviously complained. It wasn't the vault of the players, but rather the devs making a false claim that the challenges were reasonable without actually showing us what the challenges were. Lessening the challenge was what people wanted, if they had to lessen the reward as well then they should've found another means of getting through the tiers to actually make the rift a "casual" friendly battle pass. If they had actually warned people that it wasn't "casual" friendly, then all the people that were complaining that the absurd challenges (which they were) weren't worth the reward they were given when some took up to multiple hours to complete, with the reward being 30,000 bloodpoints (which you get double of by performing well in one match with bbq or we're gonna live forever) and 3 rift fragments.
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@kcwolf1975 said:
I am hoping that they will make the next one less grindy.
Maybe drop the tiers to 50 or 60.
Or drop the exp points per fragment from 800 to 600.
Anything would help because trying to finish up the rift without any challenges is horrible.
No, dropping the amount of tiers is unacceptable. When I first saw that they're was only 70 tiers, I thought "oh good, it's a more casual battle pass" and I was happier to pay for that. However, it's the worse battle pass I've ever seen with less rewards for actually grinding.
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@Eye66 said:
I need to grind 30 more tiers but thankfully have all the survivor challenges left. However doing the math it only gets us halfway if I finish them all. I just pick nurse and go afk (that's what survivors ultimately want facing killers to be like anyway) and it's been good enough to grind out a few levels while i read a book or whatever. You get 300xp per match and it jumps to like 400 if they run in front of you for a little bit. I haven't gotten a single complaint or report for hours
I was in the exact same boat as you, I just turned on the match and read a book, But it's absurd that's what I have to resort to in order to grind it out.
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@FearlessHunter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/875072#Comment_875072
While frustrating as it may be to go up against campers and tunnelers. It doesn't give someone the right to bombard another person with rude comments. And for the record I never said "people can play however they want and people should not get mad" There have been times myself where I have gotten extremely mad at some killers but do I go on their profiles and swear at them? No I turn off the game and play something else until I have calmed down. You'll find that half the reason why a killer camps and tunnels one survivor is because that survivor was most likely being toxic towards the killer, other times they will camp to secure a kill if the game is almost over and they haven't got a single kill. Not saying that the playstyle isn't scummy but that people shouldn't loose their s#it over a game.
You're wrong about that. Most campers you go against will camp from the very beginning. People who use this strategy are ruining everyone else's experience and they know it. I completely understand why people would try and message a killer that goes out of their way to ruin the survivor's experience. No one complains when a killer camps in end game or if they camp a survivor that has flash light saved multiple times and ran the killer for three gens but it's a whole different story when the killer starts camping and tunneling for no reason. This game doesn't allow the survivors to vent their anger out in the match when a killer is camping so the ones more prone to anger will of course message their killer as a way of cooling themselves down.
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@Acetyr said:
The title says it all I tried buying Legion and I typically run Ruin, Monitor, Thana, Barbecue, and I consistently get smashed into the ground and am lucky to get one death where if I run Freddy or GF I can 2-3k pretty well. I try and not tunnel at all, I use my power to hit one surv then find as many as I can and tag them as well but by the time I tag 2-3 survivors my ruin is gone and 1-2 gens are done.
Basically what I am asking is how do you play this legion in a non-toxic way and get any results?
I strongly recommend sloppy butcher, survivors will spend ages healing back up and that'll give you more time to breathe.
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@Go_Go_Roboto said:
It really isn't all that challenging if your somewhat well versed in the game. Several are essentially 'just play the objective'. Getting a grab takes a few games if you are unlucky and the Dark Sense challenge where you must compete 3 generators over also over hyped. I completed it in my first attempt.
If people are freaked out by this stuff, then they have no chance of getting Tome IV done.
But, maybe there was just come confusion about the requirements of the harder challenges.
Dark Sense challenge; you do not need to complete 3 generators by yourself 0-100%. Just bring a good tool box and play a little immersed with perks that help you before the exit gates are done/do generators.
Grab challenge; grabbing off generators, totems, out of lockers, exit gates, pallets, and windows will complete the challenge. You'll most likely get someone out of a locker, pallet, or window. The last two can happen when a survivor is injured and either slow vaulting or slow sprint vaulting when you are very close.
Edit: It should also be noted some of the harder challenges are not required to be done to complete the Tome. You only need to follow one track and there are many challenges that do not lead directly to the Tome Epilogue.
It's because the challenges encourage scummy/poor gameplay and the rewards aren't worth the time and frustration it takes to complete them. Just because you got lucky and the stars aligned for your challenges doesn't mean it will for everyone.
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@FancyMrB said:
They are challenges for a reason. They will take time, patience, skill, and some luck.
If you don't like challenges, don't do them (or spend your money on a rift pass).
But challenges are meant to have a reward, you get basically a daily amount of bloodpoints so people are only playing for the rift. And people were only allowed to see the first level of challenges, which weren't unreasonable. It is flat out unfair that these challenges are overly grindy and not hard or excessively difficult and only cause frustration. For 10 dollars, the cosmetics are a wonderful deal, but the challenges cause hours of frustration and boredom.
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@theArashi said:
It's probably the most pointless addon in existence but I have no clue as to how change it to be useful... at all.
Making chainsaw completely silent wouldn't do anything (I think) .
Do the complete opposite, make leatherface's chainsaw quieter by default and make the add-ons have the chainsaw sound distant, then closer, and eventually sound like it's just out sight. Only on leatherface of course.
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@Acetyr said:
The title says it all I tried buying Legion and I typically run Ruin, Monitor, Thana, Barbecue, and I consistently get smashed into the ground and am lucky to get one death where if I run Freddy or GF I can 2-3k pretty well. I try and not tunnel at all, I use my power to hit one surv then find as many as I can and tag them as well but by the time I tag 2-3 survivors my ruin is gone and 1-2 gens are done.
Basically what I am asking is how do you play this legion in a non-toxic way and get any results?
I strongly recommend sloppy butcher, survivors will spend ages healing back up and that'll give you more time to breathe.
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@FearlessHunter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/108013/toxicity-again-why-opinions
The sad thing is that people like them forget they are talking to a human being. They forget they are talking to someone who has feelings and is free to play however he/she wants. People forget that this is just a game. they are not gonna win every game they play in a row. Loosing is a part of life no matter how much they want to avoid it.
People like that tend to bully others because it makes them feel better. Just ignore them and move on with your day. Best thing to do is not to engage in the conversation and just block them immediately.
Good luck in your future games :)
While i do agree with some of what you said. Your reasoning that you should let people play however they like without us getting mad is plain wrong. Killers tunneling and camping ruin the survivors experience so they have all the right in the world to message them. In this case, the killer really should just ignore them as they did nothing wrong. NOED is an annoying perk but it's completely justified on killers like him, you should expect a high ranked trapper to run NOED, they have no choice.
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@ad19970 said:
Well thank god. Haven't seen the challenges myself yet but they seem to be absolutely horrible and encourage bad gameplay that is unfun for both sides.
You'd be right. Certain challenges for survivors are impossible unless you got a full swf, people farming each other, and killers farming constantly because it makes things easier. The challenges are just too grindy with barely any reward.
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@vossler25 said:
Stop, I am looking to play a game, sometimes I get the time for a game before I need to leave and decide to be survivor, but then someone decides to not play and farm with survivors, stop, please make this something one can be banned for, It's extremely irritating and completely ruins the game anyone that enjoys it, why? Are you trash? Do you not enjoy the game itself? I don't get it, screw farm games and every killer that does it
Farming only exists when the killer needs to benefit from something they can't through normal gameplay. The reason you're seeing so many farmers is due to the difficulty of the archives. It's kinda pathetic that out of all the bull that exists in this game, you're complaining about farming.
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As someone who has been playing dbd for a long time and who has been following the game since beta. I really love the game but god does it suck to be forced into the low ranks.
I'm a killer main because I like to keep my ranks high on survivor so I can actually enjoy playing with friends and frankly because it's extremely frustrating to have to rely on strangers on low ranks who don't even seem to know how to play the game.
The fact that you're forced into lower ranks is good in theory, it's not fun to go against players who have significantly higher skill than you, but the system doesn't work. It promotes sticking to characters you've already leveled up and not trying out new characters.
This is even worse on the killers side of things. You're forced to play top tier killers because you get destroyed whenever you attempt to play some of the weaker killers and it's extremely frustrating. I'm forced to de-rank so I can actually play new killers and have a fun time because whenever I go back to the killers i'm good with. I pip up extremely quickly.