Langweilig
Langweilig
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@Royval said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3837032#Comment_3837032
god forbid a killer gets rewarded for a fresh hook 😂
I have no problem with the regression by it self, but how it turns out in my matches. Gen 99% boom, gen 99% boom again, gen 99% again and booooom agaaaainn. Last but not least the killer comes, chases me and my gen regresses again. When I come back it is at 0% again! Fun!
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I agree franklins deserves a nerf. It’s one of the most frustrating perks to play against next to pain res.
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Agree maps have become too small, especially on the reworked maps
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@tubalcane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3809096#Comment_3809096
There's no agree to disagree here when you are just blatantly and factually wrong. The game is easy mode for survivors and getting easier by the month. Killers got a few scraps, nothing like the camping and tunneling nerfs that have come along for them.
😂😂😂😂 What game are you playing
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@A_T_E said:
Don't DC, then you won't be punished.
If you already waited 2 mins, you can wait another 2 to prevent DC penalty. You have nothing to complain about. Stop leaving matches.
I should not get punished for leaving a match, where I can do nothing! That’s why the leave button exists after all. There should be something like the endgame collapse for this scenario.
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@TheArbiter said:
Probably the 12th
@Royval said:
Tuesday the 12th
I have to wait another week 😭😭😭.
Thanks for the answer.
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Call of brine,ruin and overcharge could be buffed to 150%, but definitely not 200%.
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@Vishlumbra said:
Personally I think Sadako is a super fun killer. She is my main and I enjoy her so much.
I think there’s room for a few improvements:1- When a survivor reaches full condem, make them exposed and broken until you down them or they deliver the tape. This makes condemn a bit more impactful.
2- Give her a slight speed increase if you Demanifest - Manifest. That would help on chases.
3- Downing a survivor carrying a tape and hooking him, gives everyone a condemned stack, basekit.I’m very certain 1 and 2 will never happen since exposed would be too much in combination with a mori ability and getting a speed boost after uncloaking is wraiths thing.
3 should definitely be basekit. I would go even further and say: Everytime you hook someone, every not downed/hooked survivor receives one stack of condemned.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3831342#Comment_3831342
Its an interesting concept. I'm more used to the idea of survivors wanting to turn TVs turn off of course, but it makes sense if taking a tape wants to be discouraged.
The demanifest changes look good, no objections to any of that.
The condemn on teleport having its own individual cooldown per TV is a cool idea in conjunction with the TVs never turning off when Sadako uses them. That makes it more clear of the trade offs.
You would need to redo iri add-on though, if survivors have accepted the penalty for taking a tape being able to undo it with the iri makes that add-on pretty busted unfair. Either have TVs stay on unless you take a tape, or the iri (with nerfs) to turn projected TVs back on. I don't think it works if you can do both, unless the iri brings back turning off TVs to mess with Survibors grabbing/delivering tapes.
I tried to make suggestions for the current version and 1.0 with the thought, that behavior might not do every idea (for example TVs stay on), but you are right iri tape would be a bit unfair with that version. Maybe it should only turn on 1 TV or the following idea could be its new effect.
- Sadako can tp to a turned off TV and activates it afterwards again, she does not spread condemned when doing it. 🟢/🟣/🔴
Only to clarify I made all the suggestions, that aren’t the revert part, also for the current version.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
I propose this to the devs.
Revert Sadako to 1.0 - keep the following changes.
*Keep the Reduced Tv cooldown times
*Cannot be stunned while demanifested
*Keep increased speed coming out of TVS.
*Stealth fixed and corrected from Patch 7.5.0
*Revert Yoichis fishing net back to 12% faster on passive condemn on tapes.
*Revert old ring drawing to give condemn upon heals only not slugs OR make current ring drawing base kit.
*Keep the Lock in condemn.
New - The Onyros lullaby has been dramatically increased in size from 24 meters to 45. OR reduce it to 18 meters.New - The Onyros TVs now turn on after 20 seconds. (Was 30)
(I feel like I am missing stuff?)I basically want the same, just a bit more.
Small correction: TVs have a 45s cooldown after teleporting not 30s.
About the lullaby: I would prefer it being 18m or smaller since it directional and I don’t want survivors to have wall hacks on me with a 45m range.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3831365#Comment_3831365
Her old ring drawing was an issue, until they fixed it to where slugged opponents would not receive condemn upon pickup.
I said, “the last version of it (without the slugging part)”wasn’t an issue. I haven’t denied, that the first version wasn’t good.
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@radiantHero23 said:
@UndeddJester iri tape was what made her consistently viable. That's why this addon was so problematic. It was basicly the only addon you every saw on her because it made her a lot easier to play and gave her kit a lot more consistency.
It's similar to the problem clown had and Myers very much has. One specific addon is so strong that it elevates the killer way too much. This becoming a hindrance in case that the killer actually gets some buffs.
I think a proposal back then was to make thw addon partially basekit and to rework the addon completely. This would have been an incentive for her to actually chase people and because her chase is so bad, every hit would actually make an impact. Obviously this idea had its downsides in form of being very strong in slugging situations.
The real issues back than was ring drawing in terms of unhealthy playstyle and iri tape because it made her a lot more easy and consistent to play, resulting in everyone using it.
Iri tape wasn’t problematic and the last ring drawing version (without the slugging part) wasn’t either.
Sure iri tape without adjustments in the current version would be too much, but her old version with todays buffs and that addon would be fine. In the current version I would make that only one TV spreads condemned and keep it as it was.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3831304#Comment_3831304
Oh I gotcha, cheers for the breakdown, I'm glad to say that (mostly) falls in line with what I knew about her.
The 100s cooldown was the one that stuck out to me, there was that iri add-ons that turned back on all TVs you'd projected to after hit from manifestation.
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Iridescent_Videotape
This looks like it just made her better in every way with her push people into TVs and cut off gameplay, and it was my understanding this add-on was the one that really would make or break her, but that's obviously only from what I understand talking to others.
Regarding tapes, I was asking about your reworked version with the passive 60s condemn.
Is there a reason not to grab a tape? Does the tape do anything other than turn off the TV and help remove condemn? Or is this going back to the 100s projection and 70s tape recovery on TVs?
I loved iri videotape and I was so sad as they removed it. I wished they just nerfed it accordingly and kept it.
Is there a reason not to grab a tape? Does the tape do anything other than turn off the TV and help remove condemn? Or is this going back to the 100s projection and 70s tape recovery on TVs?
Tapes would only be for turning off TVs and removing condemned and they would give 1 stack of condemned every 25s like in her first version.
@Langweilig said:
Hello folks,
Here are some of my ideas for Sadako or the Onryo depending on how you want to call her. I try to make her more fun again. My three topics are chase buffs (flicker and tp), a revert of two aspects and addons (changes/ideas).
Chase/flicker buffs:
I think her flicker is a really cool ability, but not quite useful in most cases. I‘m trying to change that.
(Is the invisibility still bugged? If yes, please fix that behavior. Thanks)
- The otherworld visible duration gets reduced to 1s or 1,2s (was1,5s)
Through that change her invisibility would happen more often and make keeping track of her more difficult. Currently this is not really the case and it is very easy to know where she is located in chase. It would allow for smother and more fluid mindgames as well and maybe encourage more players to use that part of her power more. The time you have to wait for getting invisible again often discourages me to use it.
- The lullaby range decreased to 12-18m (was 24m) and please remove the directional part of it
It is really frustrating to have a stealth power that simply does not work. Like 90% of my opponents notice the lullaby in the visual heartbeat sensor and run instantly away before I came even anywhere close to them. Then the directional part of it always tells survivors where I will come from, so that they don‘t have a chance at running into me and it makes mindgames as her really frustrating when survivors have constant wall hacks through the sound of it. That was one of the big changes you did to dredge, please do this for her too.
- In Sadakos post manifest flicker the red stain is hidden or she is undetectable for the flickering duration (new)
A small change to make her flicker a little bit better. The red stain often gives you completely away and makes using the ability rather difficult, especially when you want to focus on using the invisibility in the right moments instead of focusing on hiding the red stain.
- She flickers for 4s after crawling out of an TV (new)
This is a nice thematic change she does in the movies and it would be nice seeing it in the game. I don‘t think it will have much use, but in some cases it might help. This is more a change for the horror theme of her.
- Demanifest flicker and manifest flicker get the same values, which means she is invisible for 1,2s after manifesting like when she is in demanifested.
Mainly to merge her two addons (reikos watch and newspaper), which both do exactly the same thing and it would just be a nice little buff
- Her invisibility does
not deactivate through breaking pallets and vaulting windows
When playing shack I often feel like my ability does literally nothing and like it should work for the window at least. I tried serveral times vaulting it while being invisible only to find out it does not work and I see no reason why it shouldn‘t. Other killers have a lot better abilities than this could ever be.
Teleport/chase buff:
-Please remove TV auras!!!!!! (Very important) or give me an addon for it
I know what your intentions were when you added them, but they did not solve the issue you wanted to solve of survivors not knowing where and how to find TVs (which wasn‘t hard before). Most of them who struggled still ignore and do nothing against her power, but it makes playing her a nightmare. You can never get close to anyone with the teleport like you could before you added them. They always prerun half an hour ago in the opposite direction while you crawl out of TVs, because they see you from a mile away through walls, which forces you to ALWAYS run bloody fingernails to not have a completly useless teleport. I remember in the past how good and fun it was to chase people through the TVs and what it is now! (It’s not fun anymore). Secondly it makes survivors disable most of her TVs all of the time against survivors who know what they are doing, which isn’t fun as well to have no teleport points. Last but not least it hurts the horror feeling of this character when you always know where she will come from. PLEASE BEHAVIOR THIS IS MY BIGGEST PAIN POINT WHEN PLAYING HER, PLEASE SOLVE THOSE TWO PROBLEMS IT WASN‘T ALWAYS LIKE THAT AND SHE WAS A LOT MORE FUN IN HER FIRST VERSION BECAUSE OF THAT!
- Tape insertion speed and the speed for turning off TVs is 1,5-2s (0,5s/1s)
A thing I liked doing in the past was interrupting survivors when they want to put in tapes or turn off TVs, but currently the interacting time with TVs is so low, that it is almost impossible to tp to the TVs in time. This is especially frustrating when playing aura builds and seeing them at the TVs and not being able to demanifest in time in order to get there. It’s not really about interrupting the removal of condemned for me, but this would be another use.
- TVs no longer turn off after projection (was 45s); Edit: TVs have a 30s long condemned cooldown after teleporting towards them, which still allows you to teleport there, but they don’t spread condemned while on cooldown
I don‘t see why not. Survivors can always turn off TVs for a long period of time and even without the TV auras TVs are loud and have an effect around them, so there is enough things that limit her tp already. She even has a cooldown in form of switching into the otherworld mode.
A revert of two aspects to make her more similar to her first version and some buffs to some of her issues back then
I never really liked that she got reworked since she has been my favorite killer back then. Ever since she was no longer as fun to play as she once was. All the focus was on making condemned super annoying and making her teleport trash in the process, which was my favorite part of her power. Don‘t get me wrong condemned is nice, but it should not be the only focus of her. The problem is her current mechanics of global condemned and having no downside to holding tapes forces turning off TVs non stop, which removes all teleport points near survivors. I don‘t think there is a way to have a good teleport with the current mechanics, which you (behavior) would go, so I suggest reverting those two aspects. (One way to solve it in the current version could be my second addon idea)
- Passive condemned: Every 25s of holding a tape you get 1 stack condemned
This is one of the main reasons why I will always prefer the first version. Survivors were not encouraged to grab tapes at all and I had all the TVs available most of the time even tho the cooldown was long. Chasing with her was so much more fun as the focus was not only on making her condemned well (and annoying) even tho I would say her condemned is in worse spot than it would be with 1.0 mechanics. I loved teleporting around and chasing survivor with the TVs, which is no longer possible/viable way of playing her if you want to win.
- Only one TV spreads condemned
Her condemned is only slowdown now if you don‘t play against beginners, who ignore TVs all the time. Then again making it global or all TVs, forces survivors to turn off all the TVs near them, which is extremely unfun. Lastly your own skill does not matter since she is all about the other side misplaying, you can‘t really impact much if they play right and it‘s not good giving the other side so much power over your ability. It‘s also not good Design to have an opressive ability like that, which is only oppressive against people who have no clue what‘s going on.
- Condemned gets spread in a 20-24m range (was16m)
To make it easier to spread condemned stacks, which could easily be outrunned back then, because it gets spread at the end of crawling out of the TVs animation.
Hookinga survivor gives all other survivors1 stackof condemned (new)
To encourage hooking over slugging and to actually chase someone instead of tp spamming. While I don‘t have a problem with slugging, especially on a killer that has no strong chase ability, both ways of playing her aren‘t really fun for the survivors. Instead of forcing everyone to play a certain way, I want to encourage playing in a more fun way instead of removing it and punishing all who play her even tho they didn‘t play that way just seems wrong to me. (This could probably even get added into the current version‘s basekit.) It would obviously also be a nice buff to condemned, which many say was too weak back then, but I think with those changes it would have been in a good spot.
Addon changes
- 🔴Iri videotape: Hitting a Survivor within 8 seconds after Manifesting turns on the last 2-3 TVs turned off (revert) - My favorite addon of all time in this game. With the live version it would need a compensation nerf, which makes that you only spread condemned only around one TV. I would also make current iri tape basekit without the negatives, which is a cool addon, but no worth being iri.
- 🟢Well water might need a new effect, because the buff to the post manifest flicker might make it irrelevant
- 🟢Ring drawing: Condemned Survivors spread their Condemnation to other Survivors, who complete a Healing action on an injured Survivor. - The old effect was a lot cooler/stronger/uniquer and the current effect should be basekit and not be on an addon, which I suggested in the reverting part. Please bring back this old/cool addon.
- 🟢Rickety pinwheel: Survivors suffer from the obvious effect and hear no lullaby (new), when within 12-16m (was 8m) of any TV. This effect lingers for 1-2seconds (new). Turning off TVs halves its range (new). - This addon got rarely used, because it doesn‘t really activate in the live version since survivors are encouraged to take tapes and in her former version it was ok, but not really useful since you are normally not walking around the map outside of her power. The range was also too small and often didn‘t even reach gens.
- 🟡Yoichis fishing net: Reduces the time it takes Survivors to acquire another stack of Condemned by -12 % when holding a tape (revert to its old effect) - The current effect does not really activate often and the older one was a lot more useful. We also do not really need 2 blindness addons (revert focused addon change)
- 🟡Sea-soaked cloth: Survivors suffer from the blindness Status effect when within 12-16m (was 8m) of any TV (was only turned on TVs). This effect lingers for 1-2s (new).Turning off TV’s halves its range (new). - The range was too small to be useful and in live TVs are always turned off, so it doesn‘t activate much.
- 🟡Reikos watch gets a new effect and its effect becomes part of 🔘old newspaper. I never understood why there is a diffrence between demanifest flicker and manifest flicker in terms of addons and power. Old newspaper would still be +33% for manifest and demanifest flicker invisibility
- 🟡Clumb of hair: Reduces the threshold for full Invisibility while Demanifasted by 10-14m (was 6m) and this effect lingers for 1s (new) -The 6m don‘t really matter. The addon could be really cool if it wasn‘t that weak.
- 🔘Cabin sign and 🟡well stone need both new effects since their effects are too minor or they need a big buff and cabin sign would do nothing if there is no cooldown after projection.
Addon ideas/suggestions (the colors represent the addon rarity)
- The haste from protection gets turned into hinderd and given to survivors for the duration of the speed in a 16m range of the TV. - Would be a fun meme addon. 🔘/🟡
- Sadako can tp to a turned off TV and activates it afterwards again, she does not spread condemned when doing it. - Would be strong addon for mobility (if TV auras get removed [Please]) 🟢/🟣/🔴
- Every time a generator gets completed every survivor gets a stack of condemned - Another way to spread condemned, could maybe even be basekit if she gets reverted. 🟡/🟢
- At the start of a match she crawls out of a TV next to a survivor and the TVs are not on a 30s long cooldown - This would be nice get into chase quick at the start of a match addon. 🔘/🟡
I hope my feedback was helpful and hopefully she gets changes that make her more fun to play again soon.
Thanks for reading!
What do you think , please give some constructive feedback?
That is basically how I would change her. I would keep the things from the current version, that I don’t mention.
I would add to the changes I make in that discussion, that every 60s every survivor gets 1 stack condemned, so the focus is not on spamming the teleport button all the time, but I don’t know wether it would be too much. In that discussion I added to her first version, that hooking a survivor gives all other survivors one stack of condemned, so you have to do something for it and to reward to actually chase someone instead of spamming. This would also pair well with the condemned lock in.
In there I go over chase buffs (making her flicker better, TVs no longer turn off after a teleport, the lullaby…..), addon changes/ideas, that could also be done to the current version and a revert part to her first version with buffs to condemned (range increase, hooking survivors spreads condemned).
Sorry for copying this discussion in again, but if you are interested, that are the changes I would like to see.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3831297#Comment_3831297
#########, I meant 1 condemn every 40s, or 0.025 condemn per second 🤣🤣🤣
But on the plus aide, it would achieve the goal of stopping people grabbing tapes xD
Interesting, as I say, I don't know 1.0 Sadako very well, and it's hard to track down a full explanation for her original power. I've pieced together what I can, and I know she was very dependent on her iri to turn hrr tvs back on, what was her chase ability in 1.0?
Well her chase ability was the same , but a lot less limited, because of no TV auras and constant availability of all TVs. Most Sadako players back then ignored the condemned mechanic and just chased with her. I’m not saying she was perfect, but with just buffing her numbers back then, she would have been. That’s basically what I did in my Sadako wishlist suggestion, which I linked in my last response to you, where I buff every aspect of old Sadako.
I played her hit and run and was constantly switching targets. It was like chasing multiple people at the same time. I chased them away from the gens and switched targets and repeated it. From the survivor perspective it was also a lot more fun too, because you never knew, where she would come from and therefore you never felt save. Another thing that didn’t exist was the visual heart beat, so most people didn’t even know she had a lullaby, because it is very silent and her stealth ability did actually work. Basically you switched targets all the time and kept the whole team busy and sometimes you condemned people and then go for them. The funny thing is, I never played for condemned and it happened at least once in three matches, so people who played for it could archive this very consistently.
I would not say she was addon dependent, because her addons were a lot better back then. The TV cooldown addons were quite useful, all the tape related adddons were good and her chase addons were good. You had much more variety in my opinion since you weren’t forced to playin a certain way/for condemned. It was optional and not like now the only viable way to play her. Most of her addons are now outdated, because they are still designed for 1.0. If you only see the condemned part of her power, then yes, she was addon dependent, but that’s not how most people played her back then. Most just used her mobility to be omnipresent everywhere on the map. She was so scary back then.
Is there a reason not to grab tapes in this version?
Tapes were a risk (every 25s 1stack), so most people didn’t take them, except when they did not want to get chased, so they disabled the TV and she couldn’t teleport to them. Secondly they were taken to remove stacks, when they got too high. Another problem with the mechanic was, that TVs stayed longer inaktiv if you teleported there (100s) than when survivors disabled them (70s). Tapes back then had a completely different concept than now. They were meant not to be touched if not needed to, while now you have to touch them without even thinking a second about it.
But on the plus aide, it would achieve the goal of stopping people grabbing tapes xD
🤩👍
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3831283#Comment_3831283
This is why I suggest a 3.0 condemn change of say:
- 0.5 condemn within 16m of a powered TV.
- +0.5 condemn within 16m of the TV Sadako teleports to (maybe 0.75?)
- ~40 condemn per second for holding tapes.
Please explain why this doesn't address those issues? Condemn is always building, and the trade off is you control Sadako's ability to interrupt you on a gen. It makes sense for survivors to partner up to minimise condemn build up in this scenario.
This is far better than the 2.0 version, which you keep advocating for, but aren't addressing the problems I bring up...
I'm happy to hear your revisions for 2.0, but just saying 2.0 is better, which can only even be argued as possibly true in the very thin band where survivors are good enough to not get steam rolled, but not good enough that Sadako gets completely minced... is not helpful.
Why don't these changes work with 3.0? What changes would work with 2.0?
Cause as it stands you're gonna really struggle to convince me that skill is born from landing a single m1 then spamming TP every 10s to mori a player, and it's the speed at which you do so that determines whether you win or lose.
My problem with condemned is that her chase is damned to be bad because of it. I want condemned and her chase to be in a good spot like in her first version (sure condemned needed some buffs, but the buffs from the reworks would have buffed 1.0 significantly already), where she was so much more fun to play as and against. The sad thing is, as long as all the focus is on condemned, she will never get any buffs or changes to her chase, which is a very cool aspect of her, but overlooked by so many.
I think they should make, that you always spread condemned around one TV and every 60s every survivor gets one stack of condemned (if not hooked or slugged). Thisway there would be passive condemned build up, she could get buffs in other areas and she wouldn’t be designed to constantly spam tp to get stacks on people (at least less).
I think your idea is fine too, but I like it more to have one full stack, that gets spread.
40 condemn per second for holding tapes.
Tapes would instantly make you fully condemned after one second 😅. What would happen to the other 33stacks?
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I would make ace in the whole basekit, so chests become better, more worthy and to slow down gens by a bit.
The second thing would be what @GeneralV says.
@GeneralV said:
Shattered Hope.
It would be kinda pointless now, but I think having its effect basekit would allow for future Boon perks / changes to be better and more in-line with what those perks should be.
I hope they make boons good one day again and it would be such an easy solution.
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Agree with all three.
I suggested, that wicked should allow self unhooks in second stage way back in the ptb. Sadly the devs didn’t want to do it.
COH needs a higher self healing penalty. 100% self healing speed is simply too fast. Additionally killers should be able to break boon totems basekit.
Boon: Circle of healing
- Press and hold the Active Ability button on a Dull or Hex Totem to bless it and create a boon totem. Soft chimes ring out in a radius of 32 metres. All Survivors benefit from the following effects when inside the Boon Totem's radius:
- Increases all healing speeds by 100%
- Allows you to self heal - reduces the self healing speed by 155% (was only -50% last time)
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I honestly believe those people, who claim scampering was a free hit, have no idea how to play against Chucky. It only was a free hit if someone camped pallets or at god pallets, but we have so many anti loop killers, who do the exact same, so I don’t see this as a problem. Scamper had a lot more counterplay than slice and dice and was weaker, so I really don’t understand how a almost guaranteed hit every 10s is better. Scamper could still be mindgamed or looped at not too big loops if you knew where he was.
Chucky right now is so boring to play as and against. The only thing behavior needed to do was making scamper longer like from 1.4s to 1.7s or make it consume the power completely or partly the more you do it. There would have been so many ways to keep scamper without straight up removing it. I hope they bring manual scamper back and adjust the numbers a bit.
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I think your ideas are fine, but I don’t want it to be a scorch hook perk. It was a decent tracking perk before it became one.
Old Hangman’s trick
Your ingenious modifications to Hooks alert you of tampering. Gain a Loud Noise Notification when a Survivor begins sabotaging a Hook. Unlocks potential in one's Aura-reading abilities. While carrying a Survivor, see the aura of any Survivor within 2/4/6metres of any Hook. -
@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830293#Comment_3830293
I want 1.0 with buffs as well, but 2 addons should not come back the way they where. Also, there are a few good ideas from the reworks that I think are not that bad. Not getting stunned while demanifested and stacks being locked in are good additions if you asked me.
I agree, that the buffs and Quality of live changes from the reworks were good, but they should have been on 1.0 (lock in condemned, shorter cooldown, pallet stun immunity…)
@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830293#Comment_3830293
I see what you're saying, and I wouldn't necessarily be against that either. Though I personally think I would prefer the 3.0 version with a weaker global condemn and a direct teleport bonus because that does mean survivors do still have to interact with tapes, but there is more thinking involved all round.
Fundamentally she is still an m1 killer, and her condemn is her slowdown mechanism. If you have condemn solely with only direct TPs and holding tapes it means that ignoring her TVs and cranking gens with your items is usually better. After all, why would I volunteer for a guaranteed condemn stack every 30 seconds by holding a tape and losing use of my item, when I can instead force Sadako to commit to me, or only get a 1 stack every 45s she TPs to me? Her 1.0 version was quite weak unless you took very specific add-ons and benefitted tunnelling/slugged 1 player constantly.
With the revised 3.0 version, there is a passive build up of condemn in play still, but actual direct predictive and purposeful TPs are more effective, and an active decision for survivors about when they want to grab the tape. Paying attention to the HUD and shutting down a TV at the opportune time would be more rewarding than where it currently is of always grab tape whenever possible. However also ignoring the global build up and grabbing a tape when you can complete an objective for a quick delivery might be more preferable.
Sadako in this form still also has more choices to make, she can chase survivors at loops, but has to be demanifested to TP, so constantly has to assess which gens are important, and guess what survivors are doing to decide if she should close out chase, or pressure TVs that aren't shut off. Her ability to spread a limited condemn allows her to maintain pressure on all survivors, so It's a more thinking version all around that builds up pressure to breaking point, rather than try and condemn out 1 player as fast as possible.
At least that's how I see it.
Though I personally think I would prefer the 3.0 version with a weaker global condemn and a direct teleport bonus because that does mean survivors do still have to interact with tapes, but there is more thinking involved all round.
I’m not a fan of forcing someone to grab tapes, because it removes my teleport and there isn’t really much thinking involved from either side, survivors just have to grab a tape and the killer has to spam the teleport when survivors haven’t turned off TVs in time. What all of this means, she is only good if survivors have no clue what’s going on and ignore condemned.
That is the version I want with some buffs to condemned, her chase, addons…
@Langweilig said:
Hello folks,
Here are some of my ideas for Sadako or the Onryo depending on how you want to call her. I try to make her more fun again. My three topics are chase buffs (flicker and tp), a revert of two aspects and addons (changes/ideas).
Chase/flicker buffs:
I think her flicker is a really cool ability, but not quite useful in most cases. I‘m trying to change that.
(Is the invisibility still bugged? If yes, please fix that behavior. Thanks)
- The otherworld visible duration gets reduced to 1s or 1,2s (was1,5s)
Through that change her invisibility would happen more often and make keeping track of her more difficult. Currently this is not really the case and it is very easy to know where she is located in chase. It would allow for smother and more fluid mindgames as well and maybe encourage more players to use that part of her power more. The time you have to wait for getting invisible again often discourages me to use it.
- The lullaby range decreased to 12-18m (was 24m) and please remove the directional part of it
It is really frustrating to have a stealth power that simply does not work. Like 90% of my opponents notice the lullaby in the visual heartbeat sensor and run instantly away before I came even anywhere close to them. Then the directional part of it always tells survivors where I will come from, so that they don‘t have a chance at running into me and it makes mindgames as her really frustrating when survivors have constant wall hacks through the sound of it. That was one of the big changes you did to dredge, please do this for her too.
- In Sadakos post manifest flicker the red stain is hidden or she is undetectable for the flickering duration (new)
A small change to make her flicker a little bit better. The red stain often gives you completely away and makes using the ability rather difficult, especially when you want to focus on using the invisibility in the right moments instead of focusing on hiding the red stain.
- She flickers for 4s after crawling out of an TV (new)
This is a nice thematic change she does in the movies and it would be nice seeing it in the game. I don‘t think it will have much use, but in some cases it might help. This is more a change for the horror theme of her.
- Demanifest flicker and manifest flicker get the same values, which means she is invisible for 1,2s after manifesting like when she is in demanifested.
Mainly to merge her two addons (reikos watch and newspaper), which both do exactly the same thing and it would just be a nice little buff
- Her invisibility does
not deactivate through breaking pallets and vaulting windows
When playing shack I often feel like my ability does literally nothing and like it should work for the window at least. I tried serveral times vaulting it while being invisible only to find out it does not work and I see no reason why it shouldn‘t. Other killers have a lot better abilities than this could ever be.
Teleport/chase buff:
-Please remove TV auras!!!!!! (Very important) or give me an addon for it
I know what your intentions were when you added them, but they did not solve the issue you wanted to solve of survivors not knowing where and how to find TVs (which wasn‘t hard before). Most of them who struggled still ignore and do nothing against her power, but it makes playing her a nightmare. You can never get close to anyone with the teleport like you could before you added them. They always prerun half an hour ago in the opposite direction while you crawl out of TVs, because they see you from a mile away through walls, which forces you to ALWAYS run bloody fingernails to not have a completly useless teleport. I remember in the past how good and fun it was to chase people through the TVs and what it is now! (It’s not fun anymore). Secondly it makes survivors disable most of her TVs all of the time against survivors who know what they are doing, which isn’t fun as well to have no teleport points. Last but not least it hurts the horror feeling of this character when you always know where she will come from. PLEASE BEHAVIOR THIS IS MY BIGGEST PAIN POINT WHEN PLAYING HER, PLEASE SOLVE THOSE TWO PROBLEMS IT WASN‘T ALWAYS LIKE THAT AND SHE WAS A LOT MORE FUN IN HER FIRST VERSION BECAUSE OF THAT!
- Tape insertion speed and the speed for turning off TVs is 1,5-2s (0,5s/1s)
A thing I liked doing in the past was interrupting survivors when they want to put in tapes or turn off TVs, but currently the interacting time with TVs is so low, that it is almost impossible to tp to the TVs in time. This is especially frustrating when playing aura builds and seeing them at the TVs and not being able to demanifest in time in order to get there. It’s not really about interrupting the removal of condemned for me, but this would be another use.
- TVs no longer turn off after projection (was 45s); Edit: TVs have a 30s long condemned cooldown after teleporting towards them, which still allows you to teleport there, but they don’t spread condemned while on cooldown
I don‘t see why not. Survivors can always turn off TVs for a long period of time and even without the TV auras TVs are loud and have an effect around them, so there is enough things that limit her tp already. She even has a cooldown in form of switching into the otherworld mode.
A revert of two aspects to make her more similar to her first version and some buffs to some of her issues back then
I never really liked that she got reworked since she has been my favorite killer back then. Ever since she was no longer as fun to play as she once was. All the focus was on making condemned super annoying and making her teleport trash in the process, which was my favorite part of her power. Don‘t get me wrong condemned is nice, but it should not be the only focus of her. The problem is her current mechanics of global condemned and having no downside to holding tapes forces turning off TVs non stop, which removes all teleport points near survivors. I don‘t think there is a way to have a good teleport with the current mechanics, which you (behavior) would go, so I suggest reverting those two aspects. (One way to solve it in the current version could be my second addon idea)
- Passive condemned: Every 25s of holding a tape you get 1 stack condemned
This is one of the main reasons why I will always prefer the first version. Survivors were not encouraged to grab tapes at all and I had all the TVs available most of the time even tho the cooldown was long. Chasing with her was so much more fun as the focus was not only on making her condemned well (and annoying) even tho I would say her condemned is in worse spot than it would be with 1.0 mechanics. I loved teleporting around and chasing survivor with the TVs, which is no longer possible/viable way of playing her if you want to win.
- Only one TV spreads condemned
Her condemned is only slowdown now if you don‘t play against beginners, who ignore TVs all the time. Then again making it global or all TVs, forces survivors to turn off all the TVs near them, which is extremely unfun. Lastly your own skill does not matter since she is all about the other side misplaying, you can‘t really impact much if they play right and it‘s not good giving the other side so much power over your ability. It‘s also not good Design to have an opressive ability like that, which is only oppressive against people who have no clue what‘s going on.
- Condemned gets spread in a 20-24m range (was16m)
To make it easier to spread condemned stacks, which could easily be outrunned back then, because it gets spread at the end of crawling out of the TVs animation.
Hookinga survivor gives all other survivors1 stackof condemned (new)
To encourage hooking over slugging and to actually chase someone instead of tp spamming. While I don‘t have a problem with slugging, especially on a killer that has no strong chase ability, both ways of playing her aren‘t really fun for the survivors. Instead of forcing everyone to play a certain way, I want to encourage playing in a more fun way instead of removing it and punishing all who play her even tho they didn‘t play that way just seems wrong to me. (This could probably even get added into the current version‘s basekit.) It would obviously also be a nice buff to condemned, which many say was too weak back then, but I think with those changes it would have been in a good spot.
Addon changes
- 🔴Iri videotape: Hitting a Survivor within 8 seconds after Manifesting turns on the last 2-3 TVs turned off (revert) - My favorite addon of all time in this game. With the live version it would need a compensation nerf, which makes that you only spread condemned only around one TV. I would also make current iri tape basekit without the negatives, which is a cool addon, but no worth being iri.
- 🟢Well water might need a new effect, because the buff to the post manifest flicker might make it irrelevant
- 🟢Ring drawing: Condemned Survivors spread their Condemnation to other Survivors, who complete a Healing action on an injured Survivor. - The old effect was a lot cooler/stronger/uniquer and the current effect should be basekit and not be on an addon, which I suggested in the reverting part. Please bring back this old/cool addon.
- 🟢Rickety pinwheel: Survivors suffer from the obvious effect and hear no lullaby (new), when within 12-16m (was 8m) of any TV. This effect lingers for 1-2seconds (new). Turning off TVs halves its range (new). - This addon got rarely used, because it doesn‘t really activate in the live version since survivors are encouraged to take tapes and in her former version it was ok, but not really useful since you are normally not walking around the map outside of her power. The range was also too small and often didn‘t even reach gens.
- 🟡Yoichis fishing net: Reduces the time it takes Survivors to acquire another stack of Condemned by -12 % when holding a tape (revert to its old effect) - The current effect does not really activate often and the older one was a lot more useful. We also do not really need 2 blindness addons (revert focused addon change)
- 🟡Sea-soaked cloth: Survivors suffer from the blindness Status effect when within 12-16m (was 8m) of any TV (was only turned on TVs). This effect lingers for 1-2s (new).Turning off TV’s halves its range (new). - The range was too small to be useful and in live TVs are always turned off, so it doesn‘t activate much.
- 🟡Reikos watch gets a new effect and its effect becomes part of 🔘old newspaper. I never understood why there is a diffrence between demanifest flicker and manifest flicker in terms of addons and power. Old newspaper would still be +33% for manifest and demanifest flicker invisibility
- 🟡Clumb of hair: Reduces the threshold for full Invisibility while Demanifasted by 10-14m (was 6m) and this effect lingers for 1s (new) -The 6m don‘t really matter. The addon could be really cool if it wasn‘t that weak.
- 🔘Cabin sign and 🟡well stone need both new effects since their effects are too minor or they need a big buff and cabin sign would do nothing if there is no cooldown after projection.
Addon ideas/suggestions (the colors represent the addon rarity)
- The haste from protection gets turned into hinderd and given to survivors for the duration of the speed in a 16m range of the TV. - Would be a fun meme addon. 🔘/🟡
- Sadako can tp to a turned off TV and activates it afterwards again, she does not spread condemned when doing it. - Would be strong addon for mobility (if TV auras get removed [Please]) 🟢/🟣/🔴
- Every time a generator gets completed every survivor gets a stack of condemned - Another way to spread condemned, could maybe even be basekit if she gets reverted. 🟡/🟢
- At the start of a match she crawls out of a TV next to a survivor and the TVs are not on a 30s long cooldown - This would be nice get into chase quick at the start of a match addon. 🔘/🟡
I hope my feedback was helpful and hopefully she gets changes that make her more fun to play again soon.
Thanks for reading!
What do you think , please give some constructive feedback?
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@UndeddJester said:
I do think the 3.0 version is along the right track, but I'd consider something like:
- 0.5 stacks for global condemn for anyone within 16m of a powered TV.
- Additional 0.5 condemn for anyone within 16m of the TV Sadako teleports to.
- Bring back her passive condemn when grabbing tapes. I'm thinking of 1 condemn per ~40s.
- Condemn is halved on different elevations, using the same logic as the AFC.
Would perhaps also consider an add-on pass, as she has a couple of really good add-ons, and a whole heap of pretty useless ones…
Sadako struggles mightily vs. a team that really knows what they're doing... she's in the same boat as Pig where you can play her effectively, and she has that layer of macro that demands a different skillset to other killers, making her very unqiue and cool... but most survivors don't respect her game plan, and she gets a high KR because if it... but against anyone in the know, you have to be very ruthless and really press any slight advantage you get to really squeeze at the right time.
I don't think she needs radical changes... just a bit of rejigging of her condemn strength to give her some more skill expression and potency when played well, and an add-on pass so shes a little less predictable in how she plays, and I'd pretty much be happy with her.
I’m not a fan of global condemned or all TV condemned.
1. Any form of map wide condemned makes her teleport useless since the interaction for disabling condemned and turning off TVs is the same.
2. It is extremely annoying to play against and only encourages tp spamming over actually chasing or interacting with survivors.
That’s why I want 1.0 with buffs.
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3829619#Comment_3829619
her tp was better back then? lol it had a 100 second cooldown im curious as to why ya think it was better
No TV auras and TVs stayed on. Right now her TVs are constantly turned off and if they aren’t, there is no survivor near the TV or they prerun half an hour ago in the opposite direction, because they see the Tv auras through walls.
Sure her cooldown was long, but at least I was able to use the tp effectively in chase and to get close to survivors.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3829661#Comment_3829661
Which map is she busted on?
He refers to double floor maps like Midwitch, (Hawkins), Verna map and Gideons, but I don’t agree with him. While it is true, that she is a lot stronger there, she is still weak there and only strong if survivors ignore her power.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3829895#Comment_3829895
I only say that as a fair compromise because you are suggesting teleporting to an Offline Tv. :)
Yes, but it makes no sense, that the teleport gets turned off anymore by taking a tape. It is only supposed to be a free condemned counter. Otherwise we would still have passive condemned.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
Maybe if you get to teleport to an offline TV it displays the "well scene" for a second before you can teleport and it makes the sound effect of the tv coming on so the survivor gets a heads up before you pop out of it. :D
I’m not completly against that, but crawling out of TVs already takes very long and adding more time to it would probably not make her tp much better.
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This playstile extremly boring and only really effective if you are on a double floor map or the survivors have no clue about her power. Against survivors, who understand what to do, you have no power.
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I loved old Sadako. It’s so sad what she has become through the reworks. Even when playing her without condemned she was a lot better back then, the tp was so good and she was so much more fun to play as and against. Survivors have so much handholding against her now. I wished they just improved her first version! That she isn’t on the roadmap is just sad. Hopefully the invisibility bug gets fixed soon.
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Thank you for the good work. I wish you the best peanuts.
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@WitchWalpurga said:
I will never understand it but for the devs there never seems to be a middle option. Between 150 and 100% is a lot of numbers which could be chosen. The same for trickster blade decay. It's 15 or 10 secs, nothing in between is possible.
Agree it sucks at 100%. They should have tried 130%
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@NickMilian said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3826970#Comment_3826970
the nowhere to hide bug right? they were quick with that one.
Yeah, sadness
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@NickMilian said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3826956#Comment_3826956
so true
if they doubled the invisibility duration instead of halving it, it would have been patched the following week no doubt.
There was a bug, where she was fully invisible and then she got kill switched. Couldn’t use it sadly.
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@NickMilian said:
Soo are we all surprised that another bugfix patch was released today without a fix for Sadako?
😭
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We gonna live forever is trash again and no longer worth the perk slot.
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I don’t like the ptb, I hate waiting a month for the update.
The distortion buff was announced before.
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I will stop using we gonna live forever again. It is not worth it with 100%, it is far too situational to use it now.
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@AggressiveFTW said:
So almost everyone's predicting game was off?
I don’t know what you mean?
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Ghost face buffs for sure.
Myers and demo probably buffs.
The rest I’m pretty sure are nerfs.
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The only buff I’ve ever wanted were moving illusions, but I would not give them the zombie AI.
I like the your other ideas too.
I want additional illusions: First, one where survivor illusions get chased by doctor illusions. Second, one where injured survivor illusions spawn, they make the follow emote near other survivors and run to the killer as soon as you follow them.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3825325#Comment_3825325
Well, that's the end of the happiness and enthusiasm.
It was good for the few hours it lasted.
I would wait on how it turns out, but technically combining his old power and some elements of the current one would be a new power.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3825153#Comment_3825153
Hehehehe we'll see, sadly no Luck Rework xD
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3825032#Comment_3825032
Cautiously optimistic my friend!!!!! 🥳
He's even getting new perks 😶😶😶😶
Also Myers!!!!!!!!!! 🤘😁🤘
There is still hope. I think the toolbox sabo buffs weren’t on the roadmap either
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Is it possible, that you the devs can tell us, what the other killer and perk changes are?
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@MrDardon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824910#Comment_3824910
So it does not trigger if I heal the Survivor to injured or full?
You mean the current one or?
It is active while you heal and it lingers for 10s after you stopp healing, but you have to be in the terror radius.Back to your question it should work while you heal and it doesn’t require you to fully heal someone. After you stopp healing it does linger for 10s (regardless of whether you finish or stopp healing).
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824984#Comment_3824984
Ah, I'm really happy right now!
I hope it will be a good change. BHVR knows what to they should do to him. It is just a matter of actually doing it.
FFFRRREEEDDDYYY 🤩
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@UndeddJester Ace in the hole becomes basekit!
(Hopefully🤩)
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@MrDardon said:
I'd change it to work only on basic attacks and increase the Exhaustion effect to compensate. That way it'd be stronger on M1 Killers and weaker or useless on strong anti loop Killers, but those don't need the effect anyways.
The exception would be Spirit, but you'd have to change her functionality.. because any hit on her is a basic attack.
I would not increase the exhaustion timer to be honest, it would make playing around the exhaustion timer almost impossible and I’m also not a fan of perks only working on certain killers (,that’s why I don’t like the nerf they did to STBFL), but I don’t disagree with your reasoning for that.
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@adam1233467 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3825087#Comment_3825087
I think you blame your losses to much just because of a perk, and I don't even run windows lol
What’s your problem?! I’ve never complained about it and haven’t said such things! I have no problem with this perk, I play it myself as survivor and it saves me most of the time. Without it I would run around and die, because I can’t find pallets/windows. You are so heavily biased and if you only want to annoy someone, pick someone else.
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@adam1233467 said:
I love that you really want to screw yourselve even more, you want a not so good perk to be nerfed, for what?
You killers want survivors to use stronger stuff? If I were you I'd be grateful that the survivor has windows, one less perk I have to deal with, why do you hate windows so much? The pallet and the window will exist whether the survivor uses the perk or not, I'll never really understand the windows hate.Windows is a very strong survivor perk, you can’t deny that. I don’t have something against it, but it can be very annoying to face and it is funny, when people all of a sudden loose their yellow auras and run around like chickens.
If you think 8s after getting injured would be too much, then you rely far too much on that perk!
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@MrDardon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824951#Comment_3824951
Oh you mean with Bite the Bullet, I thought you were referring to the healing action in general. Got confused.
So basically if one has the Perk, and 2 others heal the person.. everyone is silent?
I meant both. The perk now gives its iron will effect to everyone in a 8m radius and it allows 3 survivors to heal one survivor. At the moment only 2 survivors can heal 1 survivor, the third can do nothing.
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@MrDardon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824921#Comment_3824921
But 3 Survivors can already heal at the same time, no?
Nope only 2 can heal at the same time
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I had the same idea a while ago. I don’t think it needs the tokens. I would add, that you can heal with 3 people. This way the perk would be more appealing.
Bite the bullet
- When somebody is getting healed or heals another Survivor within 8 meters of your location (did only work when you healed someone for both of you or when you healed yourself), you and they benefit from the following effects: Suppresses all noises and auras (new) related to Healing and Grunts of Pain.
- Failed Healing Skill Checks do not trigger a loud noise notification. Reduces the Penalty to 3/2/1 %of the total Progression.
- Allows 3 survivors to heal one survivor at the same time (new)