Kind_Lemon
Kind_Lemon
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@EvilJoshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1185106#Comment_1185106
Actually there is and it's been here all along. Don;t rescue right in the killer's face. At least not without BT. Wait for the killer to actually leave. If they don't leave, do gens and get out. Camping a hook is actually a detriment to the killer if survivors know what they're doing.
I'm a killer main and most of the time I don't tunnel off the hook. Not because I think tunneling is wrong, cause it isn't. I go after the rescuer because I assume the person pulled off the hook has Ds and BT. In that case it's actually better for me to go after the one who did the saving. Spreads the dmg out. If I see 1 healthy and 1 injured survivor, it's 90% of the time best for me to go after the injured one. If I suspect DS and BT, it's better for me to go after someone else. Provided there is someone else. If I tunnel off the hook it's because I couldn't find anyone else or you were being a douche and deserved it.
I recently had a Jeff who would run at me toward the hook, popping defensive traps along the way, and then rescue survivors in my face as soon as I was out of animation. I, of course, smacked the survivor who was unhooked because A. I didn't want this Jeff to get any potential WGLF stacks and B. because what do you think I'd do when someone's destroyed my trap network and given me an opportunity to remove a hook stage for free? The Jeff complained after the game about tunneling, and he seemed pretty self-righteous that he was doing the right thing by farming teammates because "You would have come back".
Just thought I'd share what you shouldn't do as a survivor if you wanted to prevent the killer from tunneling. Give respect and receive in turn.
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@[Deleted User] said:
A lot of what you said can also be applied to Nurse, but because that one change to her base kit apparently made her trash (it really didn’t), hardly anyone is playing her and everyone is playing Deathslinger because he’s new. GOOD, it SHOULD feel like you’re playing a different game, why would you ever want to load into every match feeling the same, the format of the game is repetitive enough as it is.
If he always had exposed on his shots then I could see there being an issue, but for the most part it takes two reel ins and hits for a down, he’s really not that bad, you just need to get better.
Which is why I used to play a load of Nurse until the devs made her unfun for people who don't hit every blink. The changes didn't make her power "trash", they just removed much of the fun components about being a mediocre Nurse, especially one who knew the thrill and power of playing her before the nerfs to her fun factor, which is why she's an extinct breed. I can't remember the last time I've faced one since the changes.
I dislike playing against The Deathslinger because he's both good at stealth and good at chases, so the only thing to do as a survivor other than hide (which is unproductive for the most part considering how quickly killers gain momentum when one survivor isn't doing something) is to keep The Deathslinger apart from the survivors. What else do survivors do beside get chased and attempt stealth (both of which are made difficult by The Deathslinger? Do gens. And that's not really fun. It's just the survivors wanting to get the experience over with because they don't find enjoyment in the match otherwise.
If The Deathslinger had been around at the beginning of the game, he would have been by far the most powerful killer, no question. That was the only time when survivors could find significant enjoyment and ways to occupy themselves outside of being chased and/or doing gens, and he would have driven the survivors to advance upon the so-called "gen rush" meta even sooner.
So, yes. I agree with OP that The Deathslinger's design and implementation is unhealthy for the game. It yet again drives survivors toward the one thing that can prevent their impending doom.
While I dislike playing against The Deathslinger, I really enjoyed playing against terrifying Nurses before the changes. Those games were solidly among the few that made me feel like I was in control of what difficult decisions I had to make. I often threw my life away for altruism points because I'm a bloodpoint slave (another thing wrong with this game, imo, but that's for a different discussion), but I never felt too exasperated by my utter defeat. I knew what good Nurses could do, and I was rightly afraid. I almost understand what a good Deathslinger can do, but I have a very good grasp on what he cannot do: protect gens efficiently. So, I focus on gens to just get out of the match. There's no real test in a chase for me. I'm too average, and I have low framerates and often suffer from high latency. And therefore, Pop and Ruin and the like serve to just bandaid the greater issues presented by a killer's inability to be everywhere at once and the lack of fear that should normally alleviate that issue.
TL;DR Deathslinger is unhealthy because he makes survivors clearly focus on gens more intently than do other killers. Fix issue of fear removed by comms and overall survivor knowledge from auras and portraits, do other overall balance stuff NOT related to chases, and then tone down The Deathslinger's overwhelming ability in chase (against most survivors), and suddenly, many people could feel much happier about playing this game.
Edit: #revertNurse (except the reappearance change from the survivor side)
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just in general, when a generator is regressing, it should always be shown in white when seen by a survivor within a certain number of meters, considering how rare it is survivors bring in generator aura perks.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1178712#Comment_1178712
Flash lights do far more than cuck him over though. Flash lights can:
- Be used to blind all killers and prevent them from lunging
- Burn Wraith
- Burn Hag traps
- Burn Nurse and prevent her from charging her blink
- Prevent Myers from stalking
- Prevent Ghost Face from stalking
- Stopping Legion Feral Frenzy (dunno why you'd wanna do this though)
- Flash light saves
There's a lot more than "lul gg wraith" to flash lights.
Certainly. That's exactly what I like about perks/items/add-ons that exist to "counter". They encourage alternate play styles to deal with unexpected variables. Even thought I use Wraith as a case study, I've had the most experience facing flashlights with Hag (and twice with Nurse, of which both times I started freaking out because they were attempts to stop me from blinking into the exit gate to down an injured survivor).
Also, yeah. I did that to a Legion during a vault once for curiosity's sake, and decided it did more harm than good.
Side note: I hate how dedicated servers treat flashlights. I can hardly tell I'm being blinded until around .3 seconds into the blind, at which point I often misjudge when to look away. Additionally, this means that the brightness of the flashlight beam add-ons are pretty much useless as of now and that many tricks I've wanted to do that rely on killers looking away during those first tenths of a second (eg. using a flashlight before vaulting to try and bait a swing, etc.) are useless.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I've never been a fan of one perk hard countering one single killer. That's why current Slippery meat annoys me (even though it's bad), and the "Wake Up" portion of adrenaline.
I'm fine with Calm Spirit though, it soft counters multiple killer powers, and has some use outside of that as well. Makes it less of a "F you" to a specific killer, even though it's best used against Doc, obviously.
Maybe Slippery Meat can have some added effect where the wiggle meter fills more if the killer drops you or something.
Huh. I've always found perks that help survivors survive against a part of a killer's power to be extremely fascinating. I've loved the "Wake Up" portion of Adrenaline and the (used to be) added speed Slippery Meat gave to escaping Bear Traps.
I think my opinion stems from a hope that because there are "counters", the developers can feel free to make these affected parts of the killer's power stronger and address that whole power dynamic issue between killers and survivors. It's why I like how Urban Evasion forces me to play differently as a Hag. I hold the same opinion with Flashlights.
I would much rather The Wraith decimate survivors without flashlights and be then be forced into playing much differently when survivors use flashlights than have The Wraith be just okay in both scenarios.
Therefore, I approve of the Slippery Meat suggestion. I would rather have it slow down the Reel In speed, but something's better than nothing.
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@PassarinoT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1175483#Comment_1175483
I understand your point of view on this, but I feel that you are still forgetting that add-ons are consumed without a perk. Alongside this, I think item costs are fine, but with add-ons basically being one time use now, I feel they should be cheaper. Also, with how quick the devs are releasing new content, it feels extremely difficult to level up and prestige each character before there's already more. I guess that is the idea of the game but still, when you compare BP prices to how you earn them, it feels redundant. As a survivor, you sit on a gen for 80 seconds and can't even afford half of a common add-on with that score of 1,250 from doing nothing for a minute and 20 seconds. I feel that maybe if add-ons are to remain the same price, they should atleast change the rewards for being booted from rounds, sitting on gens forever, or getting genrushed. All of these barely reward you well (except for co-op points with gens) and are just painful to go through when playing a game. I appreciate your honesty and feedback though, gave me a nice view on it.
np, I'll try to write my reply when I have time, but for now I wanted to say that, yeah, I agree that the change to survivor add-ons makes me feel like I should be getting them with more ease now. I would much rather that change be reverted, since survivors have to pay for both the item and add-ons (disregarding chests for the moment). Honestly, the change has made me much more reluctant to use items because if I never get to use it in the match, I'll lose the add-ons, so what's the difference between that and having the add-ons just sit in my inventory?
The posts I directed you toward were in truth more about killer add-ons, but it ends up applying to survivors too just because payment for rarities is the same between killers and survivors.
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@DetailedDetriment said:
Dead forum btw
It may be dead for now, but I like to visit the graves of threads I've known and pay my respects to the things that should have been.
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That's a bad idea. If anything, add-ons should be more expensive, not less, and perks should be removed from the bloodweb and set aside in a perk leveling area of their own. I can't use all the add-ons I have before hitting the bloodpoint cap and starting the whole process of buying them again. #makeultrarare8000again
I explain in further detail in these comments:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1160856#Comment_1160856
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@Kind_Lemon said:
Suggestion: The Wraith's uncloak speed curve stays the same for uncloaking when following crouching survivors, but the Wraith has a speed curve going from 5.04 to 4.6 m/s when uncloaking behind a running survivor.
Note: This would be technically determined by whether The Wraith is in a chase with a survivor or not. This requires a change to how the Wraith's stealth works to allow The Wraith to count as "uncloaked" for the purposes of registering a chase in the uncloaking action. This means that The Wraith begins a chase (chase music and all) when he starts to uncloak near a running survivor.
This should remedy the annoyance of the issue for the moment. I think that The Wraith should have add-ons that grant him more invisibility and more silence (i.e. more stealth). Good candidates would be the current Shadow Dance add-ons that replaced the Blind Warrior add-ons. Side note: I would like to see "All-seeing" - Mud make a return.
Note how The Wraith's terror radius can be heard while uncloaking in this video of TrU3Ta1ent:
http://youtu.be/rBmWy6mJ0ss?t=68Imagine that, but with chase music instead of just the terror radius and a Wraith that could have caught Meg before she reached the pallet.
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Suggestion: The Wraith's uncloak speed curve stays the same for uncloaking when following crouching survivors, but the Wraith has a speed curve going from 5.04 to 4.6 m/s when uncloaking behind a running survivor.
Note: This would be technically determined by whether The Wraith is in a chase with a survivor or not. This requires a change to how the Wraith's stealth works to allow The Wraith to count as "uncloaked" for the purposes of registering a chase in the uncloaking action. This means that The Wraith begins a chase (chase music and all) when he starts to uncloak near a running survivor.
This should remedy the annoyance of the issue for the moment. I think that The Wraith should have add-ons that grant him more invisibility and more silence (i.e. more stealth). Good candidates would be the current Shadow Dance add-ons that replaced the Blind Warrior add-ons. Side note: I would like to see "All-seeing" - Mud make a return.
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Did someone say the awesome idea of the EGC starting only after the second door has been opened?
In regards to your ideas, I'm not sure I understand your post, @Trollthem
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@XRuecian said:
I would agree that if she has bugs, they need to be fixed. And any weird inconsistencies like weird objects you can't blink through should be fixed.
However, i do not think she needs a buff. She already has two blinks, and in the right hands (even with the bugs) she is literally unstoppable with very very little counterplay. She is VERY HARD to use, that doesn't mean she sucks, she just has a really high skill requirement. And once you practice and learn her well, she instantly passes pretty much all of the other killers. The reason she has a low kill rate is because most people 'dont' master her. They play her a bit here and there, and do bad with her.
Because she has THE strongest killer skill in the game, she has to also have a lot of downsides to keep it balanced. If you allow her to blink MORE, make her faster, etc, then she just has all the upsides with no downsides, and would just sit at the top of the killer ranks for everyone, regardless of skill level.
To be fair, i have no idea how she works on console, but i can't really see how it would differ much from PC.. you just point and blink. If people can make insane twitch shots in call of duty using their controllers, im sure people can manage to aim her slow ass blink charge in the right direction.
@XRuecian This thread isn't actually about how to make nurse more powerful, per se, even though it may seem like that because of the suggestions of the OP. It's about how to make playing as The Nurse a more fun experience for players who can't be perfect all the time.
The Nurse should not be made more powerful for the sake of kills, but she should be changed so that players such as myself can find fun in playing her. It's annoying to barely miss a survivor repeatedly because of high sensitivity or misjudgments of distance and/or latency and then have to walk after the survivor for lo those few seconds before the artificial restriction to use her power is removed. Any killer who has all of his/her hardware set and/or has sufficient experience can usually hit the survivor with no problem, so the cooldown wouldn't bother him/her as much (if at all).
As several Nurse players in the community have pointed out, the developers haven't actually made The Nurse noticeably less powerful, especially if she equips add-ons. They even included a comparable version of omega blink in the game without addressing any major problems with it. What the developers have done is nerf the ability for killers who play Nurse just to blink around and smack things to do well and have fun.
A personal experience and a preface: I have severe cornblindness, and playing Nurse on corn maps has always been a major guessing game where I can sieze only very specific moments to hit the survivors not near hooks. Yesterday, I played my first trial of Nurse on Rotten Fields since the corn changes* following the Nurse rework. It was extremely not fun, significantly down from the usual "not fun" of Nurse on Rotten Fields. Many times, I would just swing and hope to hit something because I didn't know if a survivor was there or not. If I waited, I would have most certainly let any survivor nearby get out of range of my attack. I hit around 7 successful attacks that game, two of which were near a hooked survivor in the basement. The most painful thing about that game was that I would blink twice near a survivor, not swing, go through fatigue, see the survivor briefly through the corn, and then lose the survivor in the impenetrable rows because I couldn't blink after the survivor. Additionally, I couldn't afford to make any risky guesses (which I find to be fun) because the ground I would lose due to the cooldown by incorrectly guessing would result in even less hits. I could only rely on blinking to a generator and catching sight of a survivor in the clearings of the jungle gyms to even hope for a non-guess hit. Any Nurse player without the debilitating disability of cornblindness would have not been bothered by the cooldown, but for Nurse players who just want to have fun and use her to teleport around in chases, the cooldown is extremely bothersome. Every moment I'm about to blink, I have to think, What's my cooldown progress? Can I recover if I miss the location? My blinks in a match have probably been reduced by about 20% on average, and the time I spend walking around has increased proportionally.
When I play Nurse, the fun in her for me is the feeling of unrestrained power and dexterity in chase which is achieved through her blinks. This is why my most favorite add-ons to use together on The Nurse were Jenner's Last Breath and Anxious Gasp, which would result in crazy speed at the cost of a blink. The exhilarating feeling of being able to blink around that fast was amazing.
Then the devs removed that, making consecutive blink chains more tedious. It was as if someone had just attached a ten ton weight to The Nurse and had asked her to carry that around in all her trials. Many Nurses responded, "What weight?" Many others responded with aggravation that the things that had made Nurse fun for them, different from other killers, had been removed without a single acknowledgement of the consequences. The devs went so far as to even state that they hoped the add-ons would bring fun and interesting new effects. I don't think I've seen any Nurse use an add-on (other than the Spasmodic Breath's appeal due to novelty) that changed how she played and express, "This is fun and new. I think I'd like to use this more often!"
TL;DR
The Nurse changes have overall decreased fun in playing the killer for many Nurse players who were decent to mediocre and haven't significantly affected the trials and fun of Nurse players who are experts. The add-on changes were lackluster and did not generate as much engrossment as the developers had hoped (note that this point is based significantly on speculation). For me, I've been forced to walk slower than a survivor runs more frequently, had less fun playing The Nurse, and been unable to use the add-on combo I once loved. So, please revert the decision to implement a cooldown on The Nurse's blinks at least temporarily.
P.S. As survivor, I appreciate the change to how the Nurse reappears. That's the silver lining to this whole ordeal.
*yes, these were a thing
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I'm more for the developers requiring pallets to be untethered from surroundings before use than for anything as potentially complicated and as different from other game mechanics as what you're suggesting.
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I was unaware that game crashes that pull up the "send report?" prompt also count as disconnects. Now I know.
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downvote
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If you're suggestion deterrents to sick survivors due to survivors not cleansing, you obviously haven't experienced being doomed after that one Meg decides to cleanse, The Plague gets Corrupt Purge, and everybody's in the dying state within five minutes.
I've understood the design behind The Plague to be similar to Myers' in that she interacts with survivors from a medium range and receives the potential to do a large amount of damage in a short period of time. If smart survivors can avoid that, they will.
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To my chagrin, the last time I equipped DS (and was "tunneled" that game), I missed the skill check...
Soooooo, for my sake, I may say, "skill check that's 80% of the circle, plz?"
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Incinerate the vulture. I'm against redundant threads, but I will put aside that standard for the sake of expressing my distaste.
Even better, set the vulture on fire, and put it on display, eternally burning in the background as a warning to other ideas like that vulture.
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@ASurvkillivorer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1167808#Comment_1167808
Not sure what you mean by not serious. I am 100% serious and stand by every word I said. I said it was BS in general and gave a hypothetical that amplified the struggle I had just had with Tier 1 Myers/SC when I made the post. That isn't an exaggeration it's an obersation based on what I had just experienced then and in the past.. The "other" person gave their opinion and then when I added back with my own more detailed opinion they got snobby about it. Then after when I called them out on it they personally insult me multiple times. IF you can even call what I said "an opinion" meanwhile their statement a gleaming example of what an opinion actually is "its fine the way it is" " wasted perk slot". I stated multiple facts. Why is Myers extra slow in tier 1? To balance the fact that having no terror radius is an advantage. That isn't an opinion. Spine Chill adds another penalty to Myers in tier 1...is being slower AND having them know you're coming not a penalty? Do survivors need to know the exact location of Myers in Tier 1 to use Spine Chill as a means to gain safety? No.
Sure, lets slowly pass around the fact that walking backwards is not a counter AT ALL. A trick that can work at times? Yes? But lol....good luck defeating competent survivors who you need to SEE that are going to struggle because you appeared with no indication with your back turned..... It isn't like stealth killers are this cheap OP aspect and the ones that are strong would flat out be countering their own advantage by trying that on a consistent basis. Myers, Ghost, need to SEE the survivors.
A Myers planning to leave Tier 1 would overall do more harm to their game then good by walking backwards assuming players had spine chill. More often than not you would just lose chances to gain stalk.
A Ghost is capable of moving at normal speed so they might as well just play normally and if Spine Chill is present you still gain some advantage as they can't be 100% sure where you are and they don't have the option of getting into a safe spot like they would with Tier 1 Myers because Ghost is moving 15% fast than them.
As for exaggeration. What are some elements of this game on the killer side that are blatantly worse than being a Tier 1 Myers going against multiple Spine Chillls? One of the most popular perks in the entire game.
I mean, yeah, I agree with you about the game aspect, perhaps on not all of your reasons and observations, but I agree with the principle.
I treat this thread seriously. However, I do think there are more serious aspects of the game that have issues in regards to "fairness".
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@BattleCast said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1166078#Comment_1166078
So what are you trying to say the Survivors goal is? Is it not to get everyone out alive? I'm confused as to what you are trying to say. I've always thought the goal of Survivors were to get everyone out alive and the goal of the Killer was to kill everyone by any means necessary.
I'm saying that the current goal for many survivors is to get everyone out alive, but the goal as first envisioned and implemented by the devs was for a survivor to get him/herself out alive and not need to worry about getting someone else out--that part was optional. I bought the game under the latter impression, and I've slowly realized that most players play differently from that because of how the game forced the survivors to change.
Just as some mild back up, take a look at how many perks there are in the game for survivors to have information on where each other are in addition to how many perks encourage and facilitate survivors helping others. Those perks were supposed to make an almost definitely unrewarding action rewarding (eg. No One Left Behind), but now the perks make necessary actions (like healing other survivors and performing unhooks) easier.
If I don't unhook a survivor or heal an injured teammate when I have spare time, I am certainly going to die (excluding very specific circumstances).
I made my post just so that newcomers to DbD who read your comment weren't under the impression that it's a given that the goal is to get all the survivors out alive, because it's not exactly hard fact. The killer and survivors have conflicting goals, but not entirely opposing. That's why the biggest balance issues occur in this game when survivors go out of their ways to help another survivor live.
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@TheOneElric said:
Disclaimer: The first iteration of this post was an in-depth reply to Kind_Lemon longer, and deleted by the forum software having a laugh, couldn't even recover it from my memory via hex editor. Can't be arsed to write it all write this wall of text again. It's likely neither of our posts are going to have any impact on the developers or the game, and I'm not spending any more time on this, so I'll keep this very short.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1160945#Comment_1160945
I absolutely agree with Spine Chill being a decent perk no matter what the killer runs - But this thread was started with the exaggeration of Myers being able to be detected by it on T1 being one of the most BS and unfair aspects of the ENTIRE game. Therefore, I exaggerated myself, to keep in line with the type of argumentation we're seeing. And you even said yourself that yes, you have felt that you could've brought a more useful perk against the matchup you've had. That's what I was talking about regarding the sacrific of a perk slot, in a less exaggerated way.
And I'm sure we can agree on that there are more worrysome and unfair mechanics in this game?
An inconsistency like the OP suggests would cause frustration in players not understanding why spine chill or premonition isn't working for them when Myers keeps sneaking up on them on T1. They'd have to change EVERY stealth related tooltip in the game to accomodate a line of "Does not work on T1 Myers", and I just don't see the proportionality.
And even then, frustrated newbies and lots, LOTS of false cheating reports are bound to lead to SOME unlucky Myers players being falsely banned for cheating simply due to the sheer volume of reports. This will ebb off eventually yeah, but damage done is damage done.
It would also damage the fun and excitement of running your builds and gambling on if you'll win the game with them or be matched up against a counter-build. I find this FUN. Nothing should work all the time, there should always exist something to counter something else.
And yes, you could argue that Spine Chill does NOT a counter, but it does and it's a ( to me ) much more fun and creative way to circumvent that hard counter: Ingenuity.
Walk backwards towards the survivors, turn around at the last second. I've done this with Myers, Pig, Wraith and Ghostface countless times. It's a bit weird and finnicky to get used to and reliably pull off, but it WORKS, and it should be hard to reliably pull off since well, it circumvents a hard counter.
Now add surveillance so you can hear gens from further away and you can navigate to them backwards even easier. Gen monitoring perks are extremely useful for slow killers anyway so there's less time wasted moving to gens that aren't being worked on.
There. I'm not writing anything longer than this, but out of respect for your polite reply, I had to get you some reply.
First off, I feel you about the forums eating up walls of text, that's happened to me once, and second off, I've started walking backwards at gens too XD.
I understand now how you saw your response fitting into the theme of this thread, and I can sympathize with the need to be just as exaggerated. tbh, I skipped past the OP and went directly to the comments, so I missed the wording of the OP. I treated the thread seriously, even though I now see it wasn't entirely serious.
To answer your points, I want to acknowledge that, yes, when Myers had immunity to all detection perks, every once in a while, I would spot a thread from a survivor who would say something like, "Myers is bugged" or "Spine Chill doesn't work properly, he was even staring right at me!" To concretely stop this, the developers might need to include mention in all detection perks that Myers is immune, and yes, while it may seem like more work than is worth it for the outcome, the importance of stealth to Tier One Myers is critical to his success and fun factor. There's even been a precedent for something similar: Tinkerer. The only reason that was discontinued was because the developers couldn't keep up with the work required to balance an (effective) additional set of charge add-ons for each killer.
As you said yourself, nothing should have no counter: Premonition has no counter, and Spine Chill only has that "walk backwards at survivors" thing, which is not really a counter per se, since Spine Chill still works in most chases. In terms of Myers' stealth, he can still be detected by eyesight or through his masked breathing, so it's not like he can never be discerned in the fog. I would just like the spirit of impregnable stealth to remain with him even if the reality might be something slightly different. Spine Chill and Premonition shouldn't have no counter, and that's a major reason why Myers' should be immune.
I find fun in not knowing whether a group of survivors will be able to handle what I'm putting down, but I don't find fun in having all my preparation thrown out the window because I'm as slow as a turtle and I loop just as well as a truck does simply because I'm playing Tier One Myers. It's just one of those things where I've sacrificed power for stealth, and then I find that all my stealth power has evaporated, and I'm left, unexpectedly, with just the downsides of my choice. In reality, it's never that bad (except for a few times, one being on Haddonfield), but I hope I've gotten my feelings across 😅.
And finally, thank you for your kind reply.
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@BattleCast said:
Sole Survivor needs an entirely new effect in my opinion.
Any perk that relies on your team mates to die and rewards you for their death just isn't healthy for the game in my opinion.
The goal is to get everyone out alive, not to wait until that hooked person dies so you can get your perk to work.
I would like to contest the misinformation that you've put forth as "the goal". Aside from the fact that is perfectly healthy to slightly diminish a survivor's odds of death due to teammates dying, "the goal" of the game as designed for survivors is A. to provide survivors with scary fun and B. for a survivor to escape. Survivors are meant to escape, and other survivors are meant to be of benefit but not a guaranteed help. For many people, due to the way that the game has changed over the years, the goal is to get all the survivors out for several reasons.
The first reason is that other survivors don't just provide optional help and atmosphere to a solo survivor's experience. Other survivors are critical for any survivor's success, and three survivors are going to have a tremendously decreased chance of survival when compared to four survivors. That's the selfish reason.
The second reason is that survivors have an incredible amount of power when the killer is carrying a survivor or when the killer is chasing another survivor, especially when the gates are powered. If a survivor has a flashlight or has access to go for a pallet stun, why wouldn't the survivor attempt it? Additionally, if a survivor manages to successfully perform an unhook in front of a camping killer, the amount of time the killer has to make up is much greater than the survivors' gain that it is almost guaranteed to be beneficial to the survivors, at least in terms of bloodpoints and fun interaction. It's a matter of lack of killer-survivor interaction (or lack of the threat of it) and the boring nature of doing gens, which no longer imbue any constant fear of danger. That's the altruistic reason.
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@[Deleted User] said:
A major buff it could have is them fixing it so it actually works -- because right now it's bugged and literally does nothing at all.
It's only visually bugged. The perk still activates and functions properly. I recently used it to moderate effect against a Scratched Mirror Myers on The Game, but that was before I knew it was working :(.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1160894#Comment_1160894
Wrong. If those addons are so overpowered that seeing them more often is a problem, then they need to fix those addons. Also, maybe instead of directing people to another thread, you keep it in this one.
You've just focused on the least important part of the comment, breezing past the fact of the matter regarding how I am unable to spend all the add-ons I have before I reach the bp cap.
On the topic of linking other pertinent threads, I'll do it again if only for the reasons specified here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/47254/sort-by-upvoted
Scattered feedback is much less useful than coherent, structured feedback, and would love to see a forum where sharing another person's similar or great idea isn't considered to be just spam or unwanted.
About the original post, encouraging altruism blindly is often the force that kills most of the survivors in my matches, so I'd rather not see (without tests) WGLF implemented into the base game.
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I've always wanted TotH to make any survivor in the process of cleansing it hear a loud terror radius.
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The only reason I agree with OP on some level is because often times, I "lose" a game because of a bug/hiccup in the game, the servers, or my internet connection. If I'm downed through a pallet when the killer is at least 2 meters away, and I was about to escape, I of course will be salty if the killer says "gg", because from my perspective, it clearly wasn't, and I see the killer as claiming the game's inconsistencies as part of his/her skill. The same applies for hits not registering in the end game. I, of course, understand that not everyone thinks this much about a "gg", and I don't blame anyone for giving me a "gg" in a particularly "bg", but I thought my perspective should be shared.
I always try to say "gl" rather than "gg" just out of respect that the other party may have had a terrible time that prevented them from enjoying themselves/the killer's self. If it's clear that both parties had put forth their all and/or were content with the outcome of the trial, I'll say "gg" or "wp". Even so, I think to myself every time, Is DbD a "good game"?
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Hmm...this thread is not healthy. Regardless, here is my addition:
Tier one Myers is countered by two perks: Spine Chill and Premonition, both of which alert the survivor as to when to start paying attention or running. I've rarely seen Premonition be used (I suspect due to the cooldown), but on average, I see .8 of a Spine Chill equipped every game. It's a perk that requires game sense to use to its fullest, but once grasped, Spine Chill will practically guarantee that any user will not be prepared for an incoming chase if the survivor doesn't know that already. This is usually perfectly fine for most killers in DbD. It's information given to a survivor and it doesn't directly affect the killer's ability to chase and down survivors. Nearly every stealth killer in the game has some indication that the killer is about to attack a survivor other than breathing, and all of these killers have the ability to travel at 4.6 m/s when need be. The only exception in the entire game to this is Tier one Myers.
Tier one Myers cannot increase his speed to 4.6 m.s or come close to that at any point during the match without the help of perks that stack with one another. The entire idea behind his low movement speed is that he is granted impregnable stealth, unable to be undermined by any survivor tactic. That is, until the Undetectable patch came barging into this delicate drawback and benefit of his. Without giving any thought to the importance of a terror radius to the horror experience in DbD (especially since the introduction of M&A, which I had little issue with on Tier one Myers), the developers completely removed his terror radius (down from 6). In addition to removing atmosphere from the survivor experience (for those who cared), the developers removed his invulnerability to detection perks. As such, a Tier one Myers poses little to no threat to any Spine Chill user, and he was the only killer who was ever able to scare someone using one of the two once-meta detection perks.
Running stealth builds should not be a "gamble". Breaking outside of whatever meta this game has should not be taking a risk. Bringing fear and fun should be possible in any number of means in this game. This suggested change of reverting how Myers' stealth works doesn't even have any downsides to local or overall game health. In fact, variety like that causes benefits to game health. Myers' stealth behaves differently and exists in a different way than do other killer stealth powers. The developers should know that and stop seeking to change things in the game just for the sake of "consistency".
I would love to hear someone else's opinion on why Myers' shouldn't receive this change, and I will most likely respectfully disagree, but giving others the chance to express their beliefs is something I'm always excited to do.
@TheOneElric said:
You have not countered or engaged with any of the arguments I have made, you only keep repeating yourself trying to enforce your opinion, which yeah well, is just like, your opinion, man.
If you have so much trouble with spine chill run perks that negate and counter it. You need to adjust your playstyle, not try to have the devs adjust the game to it.
Every build that is specific like a T1 or stealth build is always a gamble. Nobody has spine chill, you murder them, hard. They have spine chill, you lost a gamble.
Looking at it from the survivor perspective, imagine encountering a killer who gives a ######### about your spine chill because she/he is SUPER effective at locating survivors or REALLY, REALLY fast. Well, there goes your spine chill, perk slot wasted.
This is like complaining that the hooks are too close to each other because you often run flip-flop, unbreakable, tenacity AND wild horse OR sabo/ and toolbox trying to create a hookless area so you can wiggle free EVERY TIME the killer downs and picks you up in that area, buying your mates LOTS of time.
It's a fun thing I do with Ash sometimes, but it's -super- situational and specific and I don't complain that I still get hooked because hooks respawn or there's just too many of them. And well, if they have agitation and iron grip, I lost my gamble. That's fine.
Situational builds like T1 Myers & stealth killers or Wiggle & Sabo and No Mither builds are ALWAYS a gamble. You can win or lose gambles. Deal with it.
In response to your post, I wanted to ask why you think Spine Chill is a wasted perk slot, seeing as it's only half about stealth and half about staying informed during chases. You place a large focus on a "sacrificed" perk slot if the killer isn't a stealth killer. I've used Spine Chill to great effects on most (if not all) killers, ranging from Spirit and Nurse to Trapper and Myers, and while I've felt that perhaps there could have been a better perk to choose, it often gives me enough value (preparation for chases) that I never consider it useless.
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Vulture needs to be stuffed inside a sack and shoved far into the background of the menu. (The unnecessary "dead body" should also share that same fate. That cadaver most certainly does not tactfully add anything atmospheric to the game. Moreover, it detracts from my "fear of the unknown" experience.)
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@Dr_doom_j2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1156519#Comment_1156519
You're giving up two perk slots to have stealth, I think that's mostly fine, especially considering the one killer it woul be a problem on, Huntress, can never really be stealth.
downvote
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I direct you here (https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/135115/the-grind-as-we-are-about-to-reach-19-killers-and-21-survivors#latest) for various thoughts about the grind and reasons why allowing the ease of bloodpoint gain to become more prevalent is a bad idea.
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@Marcavecunc said:
I made the suggestion in a separate topic but here's a suggestion I have to help with the grind.
Every Prestige level gives a +10% (or more?) bloodpoints to help level back to 50 faster, and unlock the perks faster once you reach the prestige level you want. So at Prestige 3, you'd get an extra 30% (again, or more?) after the game has ended.
That solution exacerbates the issue of add-ons and offerings, which I pointed out is a major problem in a comment above:
@Kind_Lemon said:
Just giving players more bloodpoints is what drives the daily occurrence of very rare and ultra rare add-ons in most if not all trials I play. Bloodpoints affect not only perks, but also add-ons and offerings, which otherwise would not have been simply gathering in inventories collecting dust. It is impossible for me to use up the add-ons I have without first hitting the bloodpoint cap, at which point I spend the points and gain back more than I lost. It's crazy to me that it's gotten to this point.
What we need is a separate menu solely for leveling perks. Not only would this allow for more distinctions of rarities in perks (eg. common and ultra-rare perks), but it would allow the developers to pull back on the bloodpoint reins without affecting "the grind". A simple tab where a player can select a perk and click "yes" to a prompt asking to increase the perk tier would solve a host of problems. That way, I can actually think of the Yakuyoke Amulet as Very Rare and not Uncommon, considering how often I see this add-on on The Spirit.
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Just giving players more bloodpoints is what drives the daily occurrence of very rare and ultra rare add-ons in most if not all trials I play. Bloodpoints affect not only perks, but also add-ons and offerings, which otherwise would not have been simply gathering in inventories collecting dust. It is impossible for me to use up the add-ons I have without first hitting the bloodpoint cap, at which point I spend the points and gain back more than I lost. It's crazy to me that it's gotten to this point.
What we need is a separate menu solely for leveling perks. Not only would this allow for more distinctions of rarities in perks (eg. common and ultra-rare perks), but it would allow the developers to pull back on the bloodpoint reins without affecting "the grind". A simple tab where a player can select a perk and click "yes" to a prompt asking to increase the perk tier would solve a host of problems. That way, I can actually think of the Yakuyoke Amulet as Very Rare and not Uncommon, considering how often I see this add-on on The Spirit.
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I'm more interested in Skill Checks with varying sizes of both good and great zones. Personally, it would make sense balance-wise to remove the great part of Skill Checks (so Skill Checks appear as they do on Demogorgon's portal) until at least one survivor has died.
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@mithrios said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1142486#Comment_1142486
very complicated 😅
is it? Code-wise, it's probably easier to implement* than some other perks, and it makes more sense imo than a token-based system.
* add a sphere, tell the game to show that instead of the character model, and tell the sphere to appear randomly within X meters of the survivor. It could even be 2D but rotate to face the killer like the bubbles in-game.
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I quite like:
Distortion:
Your aura when read appears as a(n) 8/12/16 sphere centered within 6/10/14 meters of your character. Your character model does not appear in auras.
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wow, such animosity. Also, incorrect forum @op?
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Vigo's Shroud:
You spawn as far away as possible from the killer. The generator's aura nearest to you is obscured from the killer until the killer discovers the generator.
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I may leave others in the future, but this one I think is important for the near future if Pig receives any changes soon.
I was having a difficult game against The Pig on Fractured Cowshed. My loops were too big, I kept getting stuck on stuff, etc. Eventually, I received an RBT, another survivor popped a generator, and I had to get a move on. I was still relatively invested in being stealthy and didn't realize just how much it could cost the other survivors (which hindered my survival in turn), so I spent a large amount of my RBT timer loitering around a killer shack jigsaw box and avoiding the killer. Two survivors were dead at this point, and the last survivor had just gotten hooked. What happened next was the hardest and most satisfying choice I've ever made in DbD. My timer had been activated for around 100 seconds, and the hooked survivor wasn't near any un-searched boxes, but I ran through the corn, forgoing the self-caring I wanted to do. It was either heal and try one of the boxes The Pig was surely patrolling, or go and save the survivor, sacrificing myself in the process. My trap was on its final beeping phase when I dropped my toolbox in front of the hook and unhooked the Claudette. I turned toward the hatch, pointed once, and knew that she would live even as I saw my RBT expire.
It was the best moment I've ever had when playing against a Pig, a killer I hate going against.
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@Peanits said:
"The minimal amount of time that it would take to frequently do so would allow for consistent feedback, design ideas for underutilized perks, and promote actual discussion (backed by data) regarding problem areas that people are using perks to 'band-aid.'"
This is the idea behind releasing stats, and I absolutely agree with you, and this is why we've tried releasing stats in the past. However, each time it just ends up in a mess. Rather than sparking interesting discussions, they more often or not end up being scrutinized with questions about their validity when the numbers don't match someone's personal experiences. It's an onslaught of, "Does this count? Are you excluding that?", or conclusions being drawn based off of very broad numbers (averages), and it frankly just causes more confusion than it helps.
In a perfect world, I would love to release stats on a regular basis, but it's hard to justify when releasing them only causes more harm than good.
Do you have any contact with DbD players who have experience with statistics that you could ask for an opinion on how the stats would be received? If not, do you have any plans or thoughts about doing so?
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Would it be possible to enable comments on the document?
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ehh...I like The Hag's current power concept (save for the fact that traps triggered should simply replace the trap on the ground once the time expires. Traps would only be able to be destroyed by Flashlights or if certain add-ons such as Scarred Hand or Mint Rag are equipped.).
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I second this. I have the experience of having my camera be whipped around (often 180 degrees turns) relatively frequently (it usually happens in batches of 3+ times in a trial and then none for several trials) while still missing attacks, and I feel as if having the aim dressing smaller than the hit detection zone would reduce the lack of control I feel over my own movement.
Regarding the hit detection zone, I, as killer, have had several instances of "What the ****? That hit the survivor?" across windows and otherwise, including in open areas with no obstacles. This latter part of this comment is to provide support for the counterargument to only survivors think that hits shouldn't have hit. As a survivor, I have never once felt that a swing should have hit me but was surprised it didn't. As a killer, the outrageous hits I get sometimes leads to poor judgement on the whole as to whether I'll hit a survivor from a certain distance or not.
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I scoff at the notion of overpowered flashlights. HOWEVER, dedicated servers have done horrific things to the cues killers get that they are being blinded. I have repeatedly been able to see clearly and then received the throbbing eye effect almost instantly.
I would appreciate if the devs addressed this issue, particularly because it decreases the effectiveness of the flashlight when being used for high-level gameplay techniques such as using the flashlight's beam brightness (essentially non-existant in most if not instances) before a pallet or a window to misdirect a killer's swing or mistime it.
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Not directly because of the issue above, but a recommended change nevertheless:
The hatch now has a 10 second interaction to be opened by any survivor. A lock visually appears on the hatch until the last survivor is left in the match (unless Exit Gates are open, then hatch remains locked). Once the lock is gone, the hatch can be opened. The hatch gives off a loud sound of screeching metal 5 seconds into the animation, which can be seen by the killer as a loud noise notification.
Problem solved +more gameplay for the last survivor.
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I'm a sucker for points, but I think it's unhealthy to reward killers with points for closing the hatch. I always like having survivors wait around at the exits because it means that I might get an opportunity to catch them off guard and snag an extra kill.
Similarly my opinion about bloodpoints stands for damaging generators, but that's a more complicated argument.
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Head On stuns and Pallet Stuns are both physical stuns that result from a survivor interacting with an object. Unlike DS which is used to give injured survivors who were recently hooked a chance to avoid the killer's overwhelming power (in theory, yes, ik), Head On stuns and Pallet stuns should both be affected by Enduring (100% increase in stun recovery rate).
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@Plaquer said:
4 Blinks was a problem, thats why it was removed, her original move speed being that of a normal killer was a problem, so it was removed, her fatigue was to short and made escaping a chase nearly impossible, so it was increased in duration. All you are suggesting is reverting the nerfs that were made after 3 years of people playing nurse, 3 years of experience and practice and getting destroyed by the still best killer, Nurse. I agree that the bugs certainly need to be addressed, but once she is functional and consistent, she will be in a good spot. Her chasing ability is unmatched, her snowball potential is unmatched, her mobility is only matched by other top tier killers like Billy and Spirit, she is powerful, but she is by far the hardest to play, the ability to totally negate a survivor's defenses needs to come with a harsh trade off, so having a long cooldown and a fatigue allows survivors to punish her hard when she makes mistakes, but inversely, survivors don't need to make mistakes to go down, nurse never relies on survivors being bad, she is so capable that she can take advantage of a situation no matter how well the survivors do, the main problem is she is boring and difficult, many people abused her easy mode addons (i.e. extra blinks, reduced fatigue, omegablink, etc.) to boost themselves to high ranks. Nurse is supposed to be difficult, she has low kill rates because people struggle with her, as they should, since she has the most kill potential out of all the killers, but she relies the most heavily on player input and skill.
If I remember, I will write a more detailed response regarding some issues I find with how you present your argument for Nurse's change being a positive thing after years of research, but I want to at least say:
I am a mediocre Nurse. My mouse sensitivity is sky-high and the area I have in which to move my mouse is small, so I am frequently 360'd or miss swings due to a twitch of my wrist or an erratic survivor movement.
I play to primarily have fun and not for a trophy of being the best Nurse. I don't have fun playing Nurse anymore whereas I used to have fun (especially with Jenner's Last Breath and Anxious gasp add-on combo). I don't expect consistent 4ks or even 3ks, but I'd like to be able to get kills through using my power rather than simply people down that rush the hook like any m1 killer does.
I used to play Nurse 33% of all my games just before her nerf and I used to get 4ks if survivors were stupid, but I mostly got 0ks to 1ks + a boatload of fun. Now I play Nurse less than 5% of my games and typically get 0ks to 1ks. However, I use my power less frequently, to less effect, and to my frustration when I find I can no longer blink after a survivor even though I am staring at him/her "running away" from me.
Was the goal of the developers to make the nurse less powerful by removing what made her incredibly fun to play? If so, well done. If not, there were several other solutions that could have been explored that may have taken some more work and time, but would have resulted in more survivor counter-play while retaining the fun mediocre Nurse players have when playing.
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I appreciate the thought and effort that went into this. I believe Iridescent heads should considerably increase hatchet windup time and only one-shot survivors on a fully charged hatchet (max speed). It should also decrease movement while charging a hatchet. I don't think reducing max hatchets to one is necessary if these changes were made.
WARNING: Rant Below (bc what you said about Nurse and killer changes recently)
"spiced up" I disagree with the implications behind your word choice. Nurse was most certainly not "spiced up", just meddled with and to the detriment of many Nurse players who were mediocre but played just to have fun. I loved Jenner's Last Breath and Anxious Gasp Combo, but now I have no reason to use them. The rest of the add-ons have also suffered from being made uninteresting, worthless, or detrimental. If someone has fun, great. Many people are not and do everything they can to make Nurse play like she used to play.
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I just want SWF groups to be required to equip a general pool perk called SWF which allows for parties with voice comms to form. The perk is automatically equipped in the first slot of any survivor that joins a Survive with Friends group and cannot be unequipped. This may be a band-aid solution, but I'd rather have some compensation for perks given to survivors through comms than no changes at all.
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Giving saboteur 80% speed without a toolbox would be a good start for testing.