Karaage
Karaage
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- Karaage
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Hi, my idea for Heavy Steps was to have it activate during the chase to a) possibly confuse Killer b) provide information for the rest of the team that You're currently being chased and You've been chased for some time already (enough to alert 10 Crows). Changing it to Killer's TR would also make You accidentally trigger it even if You didn't want to; unless we change it to manual trigger similar to Diversion?
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Hey there, I also fear that one character could become meta, that's why I'm suggesting that buffs should only be slight. Realistically tho, we already have one character meta, which is Claudette meta
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Update: Added Survivor name and lore
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My aim was to reduce RNG elements completely. Getting "lucky' like this wouldn't translate well into satisfying gameplay, I think. People mostly appreciate mechanics that give You consistent results; like, recently Hex;Ruin was reworked because inconsistency of skill checks made the perk either non-existent or very frustrating to play against.
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Hey everyone, I agree with all that was said. My bad for writing down ideas hastily, before I could think more about them. I now reworked my post with different approach.
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I agree with both of You that Luck is not useful. It affects:
- Unhooking chances (just use Deliverance)
Chest Search results (just use Plunderer's)- Freeing Yourself from Bear Trap (just use Slippery Meat... oh wait, please don't)
Edit: I checked wiki for any more uses and apparently it doesn't even affect Chest Searches, yay.
Still, I wanted the perk to be more interactive and reward You for completing objectives in a Trial. Getting 30% in the endgame is pretty pointless though, surely at this time You've been hooked at least once so no unhooking for You.
At least this discussion rn got me thinking of possible Luck mechanic reworks.
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Hey, they just mentioned it in last Devstream, all feedback is a good feedback, so criticize me all You want ;) I myself am not totally sure about this perk and how it could work, I just want a perk that'd let me crawl anytime I want.
As You said, "this perk is entirely riding on the killer planning to slug you". It is meant to counter slugging, similar to Unbreakable.
Difference between this perk and Unbreakable is that it is more stealthy and can be used multiple times. Practical example would be: You Fake Out near another Survivor and/or Generator, Killer leaves You for a second to hit/chase the other Survivor or pressure Generator, You crawl away/hide in nearby grass, Killer comes back and can't find You since You don't leave Blood or make noise.
If the killer hits You, the perk doesn't activate. You leave no Blood, make no noise and can recover only if You go into Dying State using Fake Out. If the Killer downs You normally, the perk doesn't work. And since You can only Fake Out while Injured, the perk is countered by instadown abilities, in which case Unbreakable is better.
Added luck is there to inform other Survivors than You can pick Yourself up and to leave You down. Unbreakable has no such feature.
"what’s the difference between dodging a hit with Fake Out and taking a hit with Unbreakable?" Ultimately, Your end goal is the same - pick Yourself up. Unbreakable offers quicker recovery and is undetectable by Killer, as in they can't discern whether Survivors are using this perk or not. Fake Out offers more stealthy recovery, has multiple uses and rewards crawling away to hide from Killer. It can also be used outside of Chase, since it doesn't require You to be downed by the Killer.
Unlike Unbreakable however, Fake Out would be easy to notice by the Killer, which may be its biggest flaw. First of all, using the perk You dodge the attack. So no hit animation for the Killer, no wiping off blood from weapon, no BP score event, no Save the Best for Last stacks etc. Second of all, You make no noise while down, while normally You should be loud. Fooling concious Killer using Fake Out may prove to be difficult.
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The concept of this perk, as I see it, is that Survivors bleed to death. Death, aka Mori, is essential to realize this idea then.
I designed the perk so that taking precautions against bleeding to death is Survivor's individual responsibility. it is not meant to empower Killer and used against other survivors similar to Devour Hope or Thanaphobia, it could be an idea for a different perk. As of now, I can only think of few mechanics that make killer directly benefit from injured Survivor: Bloodhound perk, Stridor perk and Oni's Power. You may think of Thanaphobia as well, but rather than benefitting Killer, it hinders Survivors.
About perk activating after cleansing, it could be an idea for a different perk, similar to Haunted Ground. And I see nothing wrong against punishing No Mither, these guys love being punished methinks ;)
P.S. I know the perk's called Thanatophobia
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Main use is similar to Dead Hard. Killer swings, You Fake Out and play dead, essentially. Killer leaves You to slug others, You crawl away to safety stealthily or get up right away.
You can use it outside of chase too if You like crawling around, but main purpose is baiting Killers into thinking they downed You.
But of course, it's very risky. If Killer just picks You up right away or before You recover, perks becomes useless.
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Hey there,
my idea was for both Survivors and Killer to be notified of the impending doom 30 seconds before it happens, that's why You get Broken in last 30 secs. Reason why it's Broken Status, is because it's the only Status that shows on UI, like on the survivors icons in bottom-left. Any other statutes would alert only survivors and would make it extremely hard for killer to track unless he downs someone and checks for mori. The 30 seconds can be tweaked, of course, but it should be enough to hide/find the totem?
Think of above like when Devour 3 Token suddenly pops up, it's meant to be similar kind of warning.
It already doesn't tick down in chase, dying state or hooked. And since it's based on a long timer (150 seconds), resetting it would means it would never activate. You can't take away Tokens from Devour or Lullaby either.
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ye, Plague was one of my worries for this perk. Initially, I planned to pause timer when You're Broken as well, but then again Plague could use a little buff. Not to mention, You can cleanse Yourself from Plague's Broken, which is even faster than regular healing. And experienced Survivors should always be on lookout for this Hex when facing Plague (like I see streamers playing against Wraith and saying Wraith=NOED, better cleanse totems).
And yes, this perk counters the mentality of running injured for the whole match and rushing gens.
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Survivors are only alerted when afflicted with Broken by this perk. Survivors with No Mither would not be alerted from the start, but only when they have 30 seconds on timer remaining.
It's as passive as Thanaphobia or Sloppy Butcher, still requires You to injure survivors and is countered by Survivors healing. And to prevent slugging, timer is paused while You're down, so if You slug using this perk, You're just wasting it.
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Bunny Feng and Susie
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I don't think there are any useless perks, just many that could use a little buff.
Survivor
1) Buckle Up - I think if the perk had some bonus speed to healing downed survivors, it could be used somewhat
2) Dance With Me - if it had 5 seconds duration, I think it would be better.
3) Distortion - 5 Tokens?
4) Mettle of Man - I've not activated it once since it was reworked to Protection Hits
5) Self Care - it was tied with Slippery Meat for 5th spot on the list, but wasting 32 seconds on healing Yourself and not doing anything useful is damaging whole team, I think.
Killer
1) I'm All Ears - I'm All For removing cooldown from it, so it's Killer's version of Alert
2) Predator - if it had longer scratch mark duration similar to Bloodhound's longer blood stain duration, it could be useful
3) Shadowborn - M&A is superior, would need new effect added to be useful
Couldn't see any other 'useless' Killer perks.
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1) 5/6/7% is same as Hope and Breakout so I assume that's standard balancing for Survivors.
2) Multiple injured Survivors gathering at one spot to heal each other is rare enough occurence that I don't think adding cooldown is necessary. And if they're all within Terror Radius, they risk having whole team wiped out if Killer finds them, for example with Nurse's Calling or by hearing grunts of pain of injured Survivors that are not being healed.
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@Yung_Slug thanks, fixed it ;)
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@david0711 when one of linked survivors is downed, handcuffs are removed from both of them
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Edited Broken Hope to be more consistent. First version allowed it to have add-ons if You ran Ace in the Hole, and it had a loophole that if You found a usable add-on You could deplete the key. Instead of overcomplicating perk to not allow this interaction, I just removed all add-ons from the key.
Now I realize there's still a possibly troublesome interaction with Franklin's, but let's ignore it for now.
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@Hendo yea, but if You nerf it from 30% to 9%, You may want to buff it in some other way. Like, maybe it could also be active when Survivors are in Dying State? making it counter slugging as well.
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@Hendo As long as You keep repairing speed in it, anything more than 9% can be risky :(
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Hey there,
right away I can tell You that 30% increase in repairing is way stronger than even Your old versions of Second Chance. Even the best toolbox can give You only +25% speed, and perks like Prove Thyself or Resilience give 9-10%. So I'd suggest to either remove repairing from it or changing %, but maybe increase duration? Like, it stays on for 15 seconds after the unhook. And if You decide to remove repair speed, feel free to buff it to compensate to make it more enticing :)
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I was inspired by Sloppy Butcher making this perk, so it probably would work the same way (basic attacks).
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Hm... I don't think we can do better job than the game's balance team, so keeping perks not so balanced is alright in my opinion :)
But if You want more ideas, I can't decide whether Reassuring Presence is balanced or not. On the one hand, automatic healing like this is strong, but on the other hand You can get same effect using We'll Make It.
And Persistence looks like a mishmash of Iron Will and Hope, but worse than both of them. Of both effects, I feel like reducing grunts of pain effect is least desirable and could be changed to something else. Also, instead of 'last generator powered', You could buff it to "Exit Gates powered", so it also activates when Hatch is closed similar to Adrenaline and Hope.
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Kindred would be a good choice, it combos well with both DS and Borrowed Time. Also Deliverance, but it's trickier to use than Kindred and You'd need DLC character for it.
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@Hendo eh? But I like Your drawings ;(
About SC, I feel like 60 should be tier 3, so like 30/45/60? Or similar to ingame distances, 32/48/64 metres.
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Thanks for the feedback!
It may not be balanceable, but I wanted to think of something strong to give Killers that are feeling under the weather right now.
Incindentally, my first version of the perk had timer of 10-20 seconds each time it activated. However, the way it worked made it very vulnerable to moonwalking abuse and I couldn't fix the issue, so I remade it into what it is now.
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It would be similar to flaw in Make Your Choice. Just let survivors unhook while You chill in the distance, then instantly teleport in to down the unhooker. But teleporting in with SYNT wouldn't be so binary, I think. Unlike Hooks fixed position which makes teleporting to them really easy, You can't really control survivors movement. Also, when found Survivors are more prone to running to the nearest loop instead of running into the distance. You'd grow suspicious after Killer started a chase with You (Obsession) and either just stood still watching You run away or left themselves. This would give You a chance to break LOS and hide ASAP.
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Thanks for feedback!
Regarding perk name and guaranteed add-on, it's a concious choice on my part. Glass Bead places a Light Beacon on the map, and I consider it the most fun and unique function of maps. It is why I wanted to make this add-on easy to get, and name of the perk relates to showing everyone position of yourself or something else.
And yea, I had problem figuring out how should an item be guaranteed from Chest search, since Pharmacy exists. Making it on first search would conflict with Pharmacy, making it second search would make no one use it. As the perk is now, it doesn't combo well with Plunderer's or Pharmacy, and Ace in the Hole is only 50% efficient, so it's best used alone - not in chest builds.
Since Your Cartographer perk idea sounds fundamentally different from what I had in mind, how about submitting it as Your own idea in a new discussion? It would give it more exposure, and maybe feedback, You may also tweak it freely as much as You want.
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"a two in one killer(s)" - immediately thought of Legion and cried inside :(
But great chapter idea :)
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Since it was changed to Protection Hits, I have not activated it even once. I'd rather take my chances stalking other survivors for the same effect ;)
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Since it's similar to Save the Best for Last, I'll compare the two together. STBFL has 8 Tokens, and loses 4/3/2 on hitting Obsession, which is losing 50/37,5/25% of Tokens. Sacrilege loses flat 50% of Tokens every Obsession hit, so how about buffing it similar to STBFL? So at tiers 1-3, You'd lose 8/6/4 Tokens.
Also, at Tier 3 You lose 5 Tokens for a dull totems, while for tiers 1-2 it's only 4 Tokens. A typo, I guess?
Other that that, interesting idea for a perk :)
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I like the idea of graffiti :)
But limitting it to just walls would make it really hard to use. Maybe have it so You can paint everywhere, and increase maximum number of graffitis?
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@TruthTheDeceiver I agree that having a perk that's only purpose is to counter Moris seems like a waste, since Moris are supposed to be rare. However, I believe it would be a good addition to the game, not because of it's usefulness but as a sort of psychological relief? (not sure how to name it).
It's like, from my experience, I get times when I encounter specific things several times in a row while playing and get very annoyed by it. For example I'd encounter mutliple Trappers in a row, multiple Doctors, multiple Spirits etc. And since I'd be annoyed by it, in the next game I would equip perks just to counter them (Small Game, Calm Spirit, Iron Will etc.). Or I would get several Killer with Infectious Fright slugging (looking at You Oni) so I would equip Calm Spirit. In short, I would sacrifice perk slots for less meta/non meta perks just for a peace of mind.
In the same manner, imagine facing several moris in a row and getting mori'd over and over after Your first hook, maybe as soon as 1-2 minutes after game starts. You would be angry and ragequit the game at this point, no? But with a perk that was specifically made to counter moris, You would have a choice to use it and continue to enjoy the game. Not only that, the next time You encountered Mori, not only would You not get mad at it, You would feel overwhelming satisfaction since You outsmarted the killer.
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@Hendo While we're on topic of balance, what are Your thoughts on Siren? Like, what is the purpose of her power in Your mind?
As far as I can see, her power is like a mix of Freddy and Pig, aiming to stall the game. But unlike Freddy, she has to actively seek and hit survivors with her power (to be fair, that'd be similar to old Freddy mechanics) and has no tools to help her in chase.
How much would survivors' action speed be decreased while enchanted? If it's similar to how much current Freddy;s power with addons, then survivors would just ignore it and never snap out. If it's similar to old Freddy's (~50%), it would get nerfed really quick. Even Forever Freddy build was recently nerfed, because so many people complained about it.
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I like the False Discovery perk, but it's far too weak for a one use perk. It has same effect as Iron Maiden, but IM at least can be used unlimited amount of times (shame on survivors if they get caught by it after the first time though). Maybe have the survivor affected suffer from Broken/Exposed for the rest of the Trial? And Chest resets after being used, so someone else can trigger it too.
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Personally I'm a fan of Northela, reminds me of Lara Croft :) Finders Keepers would synergize extremely well with a Plunderer's build; but Devs would get a headache trying to implement it.
Second Chance is indeed just like old DS, but even stronger (doesn't require being obsession/wiggling). And with DS, You just get a few seconds head start, Killer can still follow after Your scratch marks, With SC, Killer would completely lose You.
SC certainly needs more looking into at this point. You say You want to counter tunneling, but everyone would be just using SC on their first down when they've not even been hooked yet. Limitting the use to when You've been hooked at least once or twice could be nice. Adding a rule to where You'd be teleported to would help (maybe limitting max distance?) Maybe if You're carrying a vial with You, make it so it takes item slot and can't be dropped before used and perk doesn't activate if you start a Trial with an other item? Just some loose thoughts.
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I would reduce the activation time to 5 seconds or less, basically to just enough time so that it wouldn't activate when You just run straight from entrance of the gate to the exit, but if you linger inside even for a second You will be punished. And it shouldn't show that You're in exposed status until it activates, similar to NOED.
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I feel like Save the Best for Last would be better overall for reducing attacks' cooldown, so maybe a little buff? Since this perk activates at vault locations (windows/pallets), I thought of maybe blocking these locations when you hit someone there, similar to Bamboozle?
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My first thought was that it is a situational perk. Like when the Survivors are super committing to the last Generator so that they can do a clutch play with Adrenaline, this perk would counter it. But since this perk would change game's objective from doing 5 Generators to doing 5.5 Generators, maybe it would be strong enough to use it more commonly? Maybe you could buff it slightly, like let's say, when last generator is completed it's repair progression is brought down like You said, but also all other generators are brought down to 0? That would be
evilinteresting experience for survivors. -
I didn't forget. As said, I tried to balanced the perk around 2-3 generators near any Hook, which gives us a conversion of 80~120%. BHVR would probably balance it so that 80% would be the norm, and 120% the rare cases. However we can't forget that all this conversion is divided between 2-3 generators, not just one single generator.
So let's say You get lucky and there are 3 generators around the Hook. You get a total of 120% charges for these generators from sabotaging. But in my opinion 40~80% charges would still be wasted. Why? Because repairing all these generators would not be optimal. As far as I know, You need to spread out which generators You repair to counter Killer's pressure and avoid ending in 3-gen hostage situation.
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I tested sabotage in game just now. Took 15 seconds to sabotage with a Toolbox and 30 seconds just using Saboteur perk. With Hooks having 15 charges, that gives us a speed of 1 charge per second. Generators are repaired at the same speed (1.0 c/s), so that would mean sabotaging has the same speed as repairing? Not sure how sabotaging is more efficient. If You mean toolbox like Alex's, it moderately increases sabotage speed, which is +15%. Meanwhile, Engineer's increases repair speed tremendously (+25%), and Mechanic's increases Considerably (+20%). If anything, repairing is more efficient.
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From what I found, repairing a Generator takes 80 charges, sabotaging a Hook takes 15 charges. With 40% conversion, sabotaging 15 Hook charges would be converted to 6 Generator charges. I'm not knowledgeable about relative distance between Hooks and Generators, but I'm aiming that there would be at least 2-3 Generators within certain distance to any Hook, so that sabotaging 1 Hook would give You a total of 12-18 Generator charges.
That means You'd need to sabotage 6,6~4,4 Hooks to get a total of 80 Generator charges; they would be split between many different Generators though so in the end of Your little sabotaging adventure You'd still be left with no Generators done. Which is why I don't think nerfing it more would be a good idea.
Also, should this perk ever become a problem, Surge is a counter to it.
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Great perk :)
However, similar perks like Dance with Me or exhaustion perks have a cooldown of 60/50/40 seconds. so 120 may be overkill.
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I'm afraid removing so many pallets would mess with game's balance way too much.
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"Ain't got time" sounds really strong. Some restrictions would be nice, like You can't use the perk while exhausted or cooldown similar to "Any Means Necessary" (Yui's perk) and that kicking a Hex Totem doesn't instantly destroy it but permanently decreases it endurance by half, so You'd need 2 kicks to destroy it (and You can't double kick because of exhaustion/cooldown).
"Stay Focused" sounds cool :) Maybe extend the dizzy to 15 seconds and explain what dizzy does.
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Not only does the perk have 2 activation requirements (unhook/flashlight + heal 1 state), You gain absolutely no profit from it. After meeting first requirement You're rewarded with negative status effect, and second requirement only cures the self inflicted status.
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I'd argue that Oblivious is that strong. You can still see Red Stain, and if You're just looping Killer around the Pallet You don't really need to hear the TR. But the perk would in exchange counter Sloppy Butcher and various Killer addons (like the just reworked Legion). And since You're taking the perk, might as well pair it up with Spine Chill.
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I feel the effect is way too strong. Combine it with Hangman's Trick and You create uncounterable 3-gen Meta, where every Killer just facecamps a survivor on a hook near 3 generators. It'd create a situation where it's literally impossible for survivors to progress the game.
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Hm.. at high ranks every survivor not in a chase would be doing a generator, so being hindered would do nothing to them. It might slow down searching for hex:ruin while You're in a chase, so it has its uses :)
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I added some extra bloodpoints to the perk. I still wanted to keep the activates-only-after-death theme though.