Kalinikta
Kalinikta
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- Kalinikta
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Uninspired generic talked to death suggestion, maybe do some research on what has been said before.
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People that have clearly thousands of hours in the game that are unable to be real and claim it is free are just being untruthful. It did shift to a scenario in which both sides have chance which favors killers, as they previously had zero counter play. Like the weakest member would have an immunity shield, with which they could protect themselves and their team.
The claim that this is entitled by killers, just shows bias towards their own entitlement as survivors believing that if they are in the end game and get unhooked that they should escape without the killers ability to do anything against it. Having counter play means you can do something, not that it is 100% successful. Otherwise it means you are uncounterable and that isn't balanced.
Is this a buff to killers, yes. Is it more fair, also yes. If you are never able to save 1 person with 3 in end game... That is an execution issue.
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@Onyx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3061001#Comment_3061001
I am soooo tired of this excuse of "it will just be abused/used aggressively". If they are doing that it means they aren't doing gens, so like... who cares?! I want fixes not excuses. Killers can be balanced around that after, no need to implement a fix around the current killer status. Literally implement anti-camping and harsher anti-tunneling methods, then rebalance killers around the new gamestyle. Waiting for this miracle solution to drop from heaven won't do anything for survivors, because it is not gonna come.
So... what buff for killers are you talking about. The notion that people need to consider some imaginary status of killers rather than the one in the game is not a reality.
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Mmmh maybe don't go into the extremes and act like it is one or the other? Just as survivors complain about tunneling and camping, killers will complain about games in which they barely got to play due to gen speeds or when they are not able to get hooks when they manage to down people.
Most people want to have a match in which it feels like they had a chance to win. Not one where it is a dumpster one way or the other and dont enjoy having the feeling people are messing with them for their enjoyment. If you want to get the perspective of the other side there is a simple way to get it... play that side for a decent amount of time and you will experience the games people complain about.
In the end play as you want, it isn't your responsibility to ensure your opponent has fun.
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To compensate for the inability of the killer to hit and hurt any survivor after they got hooked, shall we add that if a killer kicks a generator until it has deteriorated until 0 progress if a survivor touches it they will take a health state of damage and a debuff that removes their ability to sprint and provides the exhaustion effect for that duration?
These type of suggestions sounds like people never played the role of killer against any type of decent team.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2984016#Comment_2984016
This game needs both though. Only a motivation not to camp will not be enough. Camping and tunneling need to be nerfed hard as well, it makes no sense to have strategies that take such little skill to be this effective.
Motivation to do something else will go far more into making the game better than just nerfing the viable tactics of the killer end. At its core hooks are designed around the danger of the killer being in the area, yet there is little reasons to stray far from it.
The effectiveness is based on the survivors and the huge gamble that leaving the hook brings. Motivate people to leave the hook and you might be able to adjust camping and tunneling... but all we ever see is people suggesting only a nerf. Where is the motivator? Even if you leave camping and tunneling alone, adding a motivator will reduce camping and tunneling yet that is not what we see once again.
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You started off so well with the premise that they should Motivate killers to not camp... yet then your solution falls flat and relies on punishing killers once again which is not a motivator.
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@Icaurs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2983943#Comment_2983943
This is my response.... I just can't with you.
If we have 5 generators at 80 seconds each, and you throw on corupt, to block 3 of them for 180 seconds. Let's say it takes 3 survivors still spawn on 3 gens so that is 80 seconds and you get one down in that time. You then camp that survivor, for a total of 120 seconds. Then you run deadlock, to guarantee 30 seconds buffer making it 120 seconds for gen 2. So now that survivor is on the hook for 40 seconds, assuming they are a 4 man SWF with constant communicating and no survivors go for a save. So 2 survivors complete a gen in 45 seconds (to make numbers easier). But then deadlock activates, blocking survivor 3 gen progress for 30 seconds. So now we're at 85 seconds. So then those 3 survivors start a new gen (otherwise they have to wait for 30 seconds). Now do a gen in 40 seconds. Now already, that's 125 seconds. So that survivor hooked is already dead. Now using NOED you get one down, now you don't even ned to do this, but let's say you run No way out on top of this to get an extra 21 seconds to ensure the down. You have now easily gotten 2 kills, with plenty of time to go.
All of this, and we ae assuming that the survivors are all 4 borderline flawless, and you are completely awful at killer. This is in the absolute worse case scenario for a killer. in reality, its rare for all 4 survivors to have mics, so they waste time checking the hook, and obviously its down to luck how the gen go for survivors. Of course if the killer is running, say pain resonance, or thrilling tremors, or hooks the survivor near a gen being worked on, then the killer has even more time, but hey why would that matter in a post, about HOOK CAMPING. But I guess you're just too smart for me.
If we are to assume that survivors are flawless, then they won't be simply slamming down pallets instantly and they will utilize windows. Flawless survivors can deal with camps, just look at competitive DbD.
You just cannot deal with the simple math not being on your side. So, now a killer needs to use a specific build as if each killer runs it. Your idea of flawless survivors is quite different from what we see in higher MMR brackets which aren't even flawless by a mile. To me you underestimate what survivors are actually capable of.
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@Icaurs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2983869#Comment_2983869
Unbelievable you are beyond insane.
You do realise that I have tired to put the game in as much favour as killer as possible, exaggerating it to such an insane degree, to demonstrate the absolute worse case for a killer can have, which 182.5. I thought you would have some integrity and admit, "oh ok that's actually not that much, that's the worst case scenario, You want to use my numbers? ok glad you ignored half my original post where I mentioned the pallet variation., In the best case scenario for killers? 47. 5. barely half a generator, Let's break an average of 16 for a half way point is that fair.
16x 5=80+ 2.5x16=40 Total 120. So let's use that as a baseline, for an average match. There every single pallet destroyed with no anti gen perks, and the killer is a complete braindead player, with 2 gens left to go. This is still with all survivors doing gens in the most optimal way, which is not guaranteed. I thought Maybe you would have some respect, and admit "oh he's really trying to consider the worst case scenario for a killer I could have used the the 47 second baseline. There you go game is op killer sided, anyone who says different is wrong. But instead I exaggerated it to a massive degree, because I thought you would recognise that. But instead you go "survivor op, see 182.5, 80 seconds. I thought better of you, and I apologise for that.
Now imagine if you have just one bad solo Q teammate on top of this, all of a sudden only 2 gens go in that time. Thank you for demonstrating a complete lack of respect
"I even stated that what you state is flawed in any reality, as a better killer breaks off the chase and herds another into a dead zone."
READ
MY
POSTS
FOR
THE
LOVE
OF
THE
ENTITY
MY POINT, WAS THAT SURVIOVRS ARE NOT PLAYING LIKE THAT
OMG HOW HARD IS IT FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND THAT
But there you go mate, some basic math for you. How about next time, you respond, you justify 47 second timer with 4 solo Q teammates. Stop creating an argument for you to have, and actually respond to what I'm saying.
120x3 is 380 seconds, which means 4 gens are done, with 20 seconds left on the last gen pets say we don't touch the last gen to account for travel time. This is with all gens being done solo. 4th as well, meaning 2 survivors can being fondling about for 80 seconds as long as they did one gen. Meaning within the camp time the other 3 still escape.
This is assuming a bad killer and survivor. You state it is a bad killer, but the same applies to the survivors. No perks, no windows, no mind games, no looping and not even accounting for the time to find them, the duration of the chase, just the time gained from the pallets... yet that still mathematical is nearly the exact time they need to buy, while it is hold w and pre drop pallets only... as long as people simply do gens.
47 seconds x 3 is 141 seconds, so nearly 2 gens total. That is is in favor of the killer. Though the maps with less pallets have more windows but let's ignore that.
The skill of the survivors is irrelevant, solo is irrelevant... the killer is horrible no? Like they are just running around kicking pallets. The get good argument for killers applies just as hard to survivors.
Survivors don't play like that, as they are better than that. According to yourself, they do use windows, get more out of a single pallet before they throw it. Making the argument of time favoring survivors even stronger... your math on average shows that the game is nearing completion with the worst tactic for survivors. The simple math favors survivors on average, just in the worst case on the least pallet heavy maps, which are window heavy... if survivors only use the pallets they will lose.
The whole idea why killers camp and tunnel is to leverage the games design to create a better opportunity for themselves... the simple math isn't in the favor of killers.
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@Huntressmain_1223 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2983219#Comment_2983219
Ya but gen rushing?? And all that does is increase camping hooks
The chicken and the egg issue... people camp and tunnel so we gen rusb, people gen rush so we camp and tunnel.
People play to win, there is nothing wrong with it.
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@Icaurs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2983737#Comment_2983737
Have you actually read my posts, or do you just have such an ego that you just want to have an argument?
- Somebody made a complaint about pallet camping, in a post about hook camping, I then made a response.
- He failed to understand it, so I used simple math to show the maximum amount of time pallet camping can theoretically give. I never applied to a real game, nor did I say that is what survivors are doing.
- You, for whatever reason felt the need to start an argument with me about gen speeds? Because.... I have no idea why. And started an argument that both had nothing to do with the original conversation or the post???
- You then respond with things like this "Now you go... but if they use corrupt, deadlock and other perks, yet the survivors use no exhaustion perks or windows in the chase?" If you are being looped by the survivor for 80 seconds, without them using a single exhaustion perk, not matter what map you are on, you are bad, 100% bad, and you need to get better.
LISTEN TO ME VERY CARFELY, BECAUSE YOU ARE STRUGGLING TO UDNERSTAND THIS
". You assumed that the survivor purely runs from pallet to pallet, slamming it down and the killer purely walks after them and kicks it."
The ordinal person, who stated, that survivors, were running from pallet to pallet, throwing it down, and the killer following behind breaking it
WAS
NOT
ME
I never said that, at any point. In fact the entire original conversation, was me arguing the opposite that is why I said you are not bright. You stared a conversation, and had no idea of what each person was arguing. I'm guessing you glanced at it and said "you survivor, me hate survivor, me tell survivor how bad and wrong they are."
1. You aren't reading like seriously do the thing you tell others first.
2. The conclusion you made is that pallet camping is not in favor of survivors, because it only supplies 182.5 seconds of potential time... which magically would result in only 3 gens being able to be completed. While if you apply the math properly it shows that such amount of time is sufficient to do all gens, the gates with time to spare to account for travel time.
You did assume that in your calculations, even if someone else stated it... you claim to the use math on it to showcase your counter argument to that point. Yet fail to apply it to the fact that I that additional time created 3 other people are doing more than 3 gens. You using someone else's parameters to apply math on, means you adopt that premise... so yes you are assuming that exact situation. Insulting my intelligence does not foster a healthy discussion. Your conclusions are flat out wrong, apply simple math, take the gain time and apply it to all 4 survivors and ... the game is over with 3 people escaping and the camp didn't even start yet.
I even stated that what you state is flawed in any reality, as a better killer breaks off the chase and herds another into a dead zone. I agreed in the very first post that it is a bad tactic, but your conclusion of 3 gens being done is not accurate.
You have difficulties with math... why do people bring up gen speeds? Why do people camp? Mmmh maybe because even the little value of pallet pre dropping and providing 182.5 seconds is enough for the survivors to end the game.
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@Icaurs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2982723#Comment_2982723
You're not a very bright person are you?
The only point, I had was how little value pallet camping gives, that is it. You are the one that wanted to bring up gen speeds in a post about "hook camping." Because of cause you do. There cannot exist one post on the forums where killer's don't bring up gen speeds. Then I point out that if you are being run for 3 minutes straight anyway, then you don't deserve to win. Unless you believe killers can play as poorly as they want and still win, Do you, just curious, because you completely ignored that.
If we have 5 generators at 80 seconds each, and you throw on corupt, to block 3 of them for 180 seconds. Let's say it takes 3 survivors still spawn on 3 gens so that is 80 seconds and you get one down in that time. You then camp that survivor, for a total of 120 seconds. Then you run deadlock, to guarantee 30 seconds buffer making it 120 seconds for gen 2. So now that survivor is on the hook for 40 seconds, assuming they are a 4 man SWF with constant communicating and no survivors go for a save. So 2 survivors complete a gen in 45 seconds (to make numbers easier). But then deadlock activates, blocking survivor 3 gen progress for 30 seconds. So now we're at 85 seconds. So then those 3 survivors start a new gen (otherwise they have to wait for 30 seconds). Now do a gen in 40 seconds. Now already, that's 125 seconds. So that survivor hooked is already dead. Now using NOED you get one down, now you don't even ned to do this, but let's say you run No way out on top of this to get an extra 21 seconds to ensure the down. You have now easily gotten 2 kills, with plenty of time to go.
All of this, and we ae assuming that the survivors are all 4 borderline flawless, and you are completely awful at killer. This is in the absolute worse case scenario for a killer. in reality, its rare for all 4 survivors to have mics, so they waste time checking the hook, and obviously its down to luck how the gen go for survivors. Of course if the killer is running, say pain resonance, or thrilling tremors, or hooks the survivor near a gen being worked on, then the killer has even more time, but hey why would that matter in a post, about HOOK CAMPING. But I guess you're just too smart for me.
I am not bright? I am using your own simple math and apply it to the gens to showcase what you are implying. I state that your scenario is flawed and would favor survivors.
Now you go... but if they use corrupt, deadlock and other perks, yet the survivors use no exhaustion perks or windows in the chase?
I never claimed that your scenario was realistic, you are the one that used it for simple math and failed to apply it to the gens. You assumed that the survivor purely runs from pallet to pallet, slamming it down and the killer purely walks after them and kicks it. That is what you applied the math to, yet claimed only 3 gens were done in that timeline. A good killer wouldn't keep brute forcing after that one survivor and a good survivor would not only use pallets... but that is what you claim to apply math to.
You are not the bright one here, I used YOUR own mathematics and applied it to the whole game not just the pallet side. That time would be utilized by the rest of the team and favors survivors not killers as you claimed.
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People play to win, nothing wrong with that in my opinion regardless of side. Sticking to gens is simply the smart play.
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@Icaurs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2982559#Comment_2982559
I mean the point was to demonstrate how much time pallet camping literally gives, which is my only point. But if you want to be smart, if you can't down a survivor in less then 180 seconds, then there really is no hope for you is there.
We used your numbers there mate, you can act all high and mighty... but those are the numbers you provided. You wanted to demonstrate a point, using math and simply put your numbers don't add up to what you claim. If it gives you that much time as you point out, you have enough time as the survivors to finish the game with just pallet camping.
I stated your scenario is flawed. So... what is your point? I am the one is pointing out that it is a 5 gen chase here and at that point you failed as a killer, you were the one that claims that the pallets are providing that much additional time and is beneficial for the killer?
Sorry, but you are simply bashing your own math here. You are the one showcasing that survivors when utilizing their pallets instantly and manage to all of them with a min of 5 seconds benefit... buy enough time to win the match.
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@Icaurs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2982396#Comment_2982396
Ok.. let me explain some basic math.
If you have one pallet
and a survivor runs to and drops it. let's say they get 5 seconds of value not including pallet break time.
Now let's take that same pallet, and a survivor runs the killer around it. Let's say 5 seconds per loop for a maximum of 3 loops. 3x5= 15. Notice, how one number, is bigger then the other.
Now some maps, can have as little as 7 pallets. and others can have up to 25. So 25x5= 125 or 2 minutes and 5 seconds. Let's add 2.5 for pallet break time 25x2.5=62.5, total 182.5 seconds. And that is with the most optimal map, with the most optimal pallets for survivors. It literally only gets less then that. That's assuming, the killer breaks every single pallet, instead of mind gaming them, when can be done at the majority of pallets. Let's say 3 gens go in that time period, you have 2 gens, with no pallets at defence. So... yes, you are the problem, this game requires survivors to loop because otherwise they will have nothing to use. Please learn to play both sides, instead of just complaining about something you clearly have no understanding of.
Let's apply some basic math, a single solo gen takes 80 seconds, there are 3 survivors doing gens while one burns through all the pallets in 182.5 seconds... what have the other 3 survivors been doing for 102.5 seconds if only 3 gens pop in that timeline?
Like I don't believe that simply burning pallets is a good way to play survivor, but if you want to be mathematical like that. That chase means 3x182.5 seconds is 547.5 seconds of total time between the rest of the survivors. 5x80 is 400 seconds, 30 seconds for the end gate means you have 117.5 seconds of travel time and 3 people escape.
If you are in chase for over 3 mins purely from additional time gained by using pallets, that will in reality be usually a 5 gen chase. The main reason why dropping pallets like that doesn't work is because the killer will break off and chase people into the created dead zones.
Your own scenario is flawed, but if that happens as you describe... the math favors the survivors.
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Because it is a strategy that places pressure on survivors, it is engrained in the games design. If you want it to adjust one must consider the underlying reason why players do it, just taking away manners in which killers create pressure without any other adjustments will simply lead to even more people forgoing the role all together.
It isn't always the best or correct strategy to apply, but it surely is one.
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@l_vip3r_l said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2982042#Comment_2982042
Maybe I'm not explaining it correctly I'm not on about killers moving around chasing survivors trying to unhook, that's not what I'm suggesting to be penalized, I mean the ones who point-blank just stand right in front of you hooked. And Survivors don't seem to approach if the killers camping and do not move from the hook location by standing right in front of you.
I probably split my survivor/killer play by 60/40, I have a fair amount of time in the game, I don't see the need in either to get 4k matches, play logically, and its do able.
I don't see how you can put good killer and utilize camping in the same sentence. I gather you play killer more because I don't see how you think a cheap tactic is fair. I've played bubba many times and have not required to camp to get 4k.
I only came on this to make a suggestion but seems like people just want to argue, it was merely a suggestion for the devs, im sure they could come up with something fair off the back of the suggestion not a word-for-word thing jeez.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2982071#Comment_2982071
I've kind of already said it "Maybe I'm not explaining it correctly I'm not on about killers moving around chasing survivors trying to unhook, thats not what I'm suggesting to be penalized, I mean the ones who point-blank just stand right in front of you hooked. And Survivors don't seem to approach if the killers camping and do not move from the hook location by standing right in front of you. "
Merely a suggestion, not an argument
I do play more killer than survivor, yet the claim people don't approach a killer that is camping is false. Some even dare approach a Bubba, though that is a different topic as you are stating any killer. I specifically have BT in all of my survivor builds to be able to get people off the hook, at worst trade hook stages against killers that camp. That buys time for the survivors to do gens and if my teammates don't mess it up should mean at least 3 get out, if they are good we all get out.
The fact that you claim not to aim at chasing away or after survivors going for the unhook showcases the lack of understanding the flaw of the mechanic you suggest. As survivors can linger around the hook, to force the situation. It is literally forcing the killer to give the unhook for free. Now if they do that they either need to commit for the save or reward the camp... you just want to make it a risk free option, approach the hook with 2 and the killer has to let you insta save.
The fact that you don't understand that camping can be utilized to make pressure, showcases you don't play killer to its potential. A simple example of a good camping setup is in the middle of a 3 gen. Why would a killer leave that area, as they can pressure 3 gens with the pressure of someone dying. Another is you have a hook with 2 survivors looking the area, meaning a max of one is doing gens. There are situations where it just is smart to be in the area of the hook, it is a pressure point.
Additionally you fail to understand that a survivor group most definitely can save against a camp. It is a 4v1 game after all. I don't mind being left behind either if I am camped, if 3 escaped... that means the killer lost.
You claim to play logically, but that includes when to camp or tunnel. Both these things can make you lose btw. There is a time and place for it, just as leaving the hook can lose you the game or help you win. Good killers know what they should do. You don't play for the 3/4k or 3/4 escape and that is fine, but it doesn't mean that the rest of us don't try to win. I still make mistakes and misjudge a situation, sometimes I leave when it would happen to be better to stay and visa versa.
Even killers like OhTofu whom go out of their way to avoid camping and tunneling admit they should have and are most likely throwing the game... they have thousands of hours to fall back on, general players however don't have that luxury.
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There would be no incentive for it, the "casual" mode will still be competitive and wouldn't change anything.
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@l_vip3r_l said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2981613#Comment_2981613
I'm not saying free unhooks for everyone - I'm saying if a killer decides to camp, within a 5m/10m/15m or 5m/7.5m/10m radius (if they are outside that radius, you dont get a free unhook you need to wait to be unhooked), to make it impossible to save someone that person is getting penalized for someone who just isn't willing to play properly. I get the aim for the killer is to hook people but hooking once and waiting for them to die is a boring tactic. Killers have way more attributes than the survivors and yeah you could say that's fair because it's 4 vs 1 but I've played many games that have had a good killer that has been able to hook everyone 3 times to win. It's possible to do without camping. However most of the games that involve camping results in people DC, leading to the killer having more of an advantage..... wheres's the consideration to the survivors then.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2981811#Comment_2981811
I agree with dead hard and tbh you could apply that to BT as well and yeah a lot of perks, you are right there..... But they are perks - camping isn't a perk and saying that it only seems to be particular killers that do it. Maybe that says something about the mechanics of those killers. But doesn't change the fact that if you get hooked in the first minute and the 2nd minute your out of the game, not exactly enticing you to play further is it. Same as tunneling it isn't fun but it's rewarding if you can loop your way out of it and you can control the outcome,,,,,most of the time with camping, you don't control the outcome.
To be fair im not a fan of dead hard, i never found it particularly useful however I do know it has got a lot of people out of being downed.
Edit - first game of the day - tunneled hard - looped killer for 3 gens get downed eventually and killer just stands there slashing me till i died.
Telling the killer to stay clear from the hook means exactly to give away free unhooks, as you are punished for being near it regardless of the fact of where the survivors are. You really don't get the gameplay at all that killers face and the state of the game.
Good killers can 12 hook, it is possible to do... yeah if you outclass the survivors by a mile or play Nurse/Blight at a good level. Go play killer at a decent level and come back when you meet survivors that know what the hell they are doing. If the killer is getting 12 hooks, the survivors are not at the same level as the killer player.
Play properly, but you don't understand the killer gameplay if you claim that camping and tunneling are not part of playing properly. Tunneling and camping is not always the best choice, but it is sometimes good killers know how to utilize them properly.
If survivors DC that is on them. If you aren't facing a Bubba, your team can save you. You expect to 1v1 the killer to determine the outcome of the game... but it is a 4v1, as a survivor you have to rely upon others.
Go try playing killer for a couple hundred hours, then tell me how you play...
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Free unhooks for everyone, eliminate any pressure on the survivors for going down and being hooked? You don't see how survivors can abuse such a mechanic?
Makes the game more "fun", without any consideration for the killer player. Maybe figure out why so many people use a tactic if it would be more fun to play differently?
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"Every time I see a post about a surv complaining about a killer perk like noed, I always see killers bring up the same four perks as a counter response."
"My point is these perks are always called unfair for killers during any discourse about broken or cheap perks when they have counter play and, depending on the killer, hardly work."
"They’re in the game to make a certain game play style more fair for the other side"
The whole reason they are used as counter arguments is because the same conditions apply to them. Take your initial example NOED a perk that helps against gen rushing. It has clear counter plays from doing all 5 totems, simply leaving with 3 people or cleansing a single totem in the end game.
These killer perks are in the game to make a certain play style more fair for their side, just as the survivor perks are there to make it more fair for them.
Frankly your whole post comes across as a clear example of a player that doesn't play killer and just survivor. DS, BT and UB are extremely powerful perks that by many are seen as quite fair and in the same ball park as the killer equivalents. Dead hard is the most biggest out there in terms of strongest perk with no clear example of similar strength, it is the best perk in the game from either side.
Seriously, how much have you played killer?
Like don't get me wrong, BT and DH make it into nearly all my survivor builds. Just as Corrupt Intervention is a fairly common one on my killer builds. There is no fault in using them, but yeah they are simply the other side of the coin.
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@DarKStaR350z said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2975169#Comment_2975169
I read what you said and it is missing the point of this thread; which is that Shadowborn is not comparable to other perks and should be a basic option. You are not "taking it a bit further" but conflating the power of all perks and saying none of them should be 'free' which is the discussion in this thread; that FoV should be an option not tied to a perk; no other perks are being argued for being given as an option.
If you read what I said; they can always adjust balance later for things like fatigue animations, but a small FoV increase should not be tied to a perk. As the pictures I shared in my previous comment show, a 15% increase option is very small and does not make the difference to balance that you imply it does, in my opinion. People used to argue against including colourblind options because that would be 'a buff to killers'.
You accuse me of bashing you whist simultaneously passive aggressively insulting my intelligence and understanding; the one thing I can agree with you on is that no rational debate is going to happen with you, despite my best efforts to keep things civil and on topic.
No you are misrepresenting what the thread is about. The OP states that it is a base setting in games being behind a perk. While the reality is that FoV is a game design choice that influences balance. It is not the same as color blind variants, as those don't provide additional information unlike increasing vision by 15%. I simply pointed out that FoV is not just an accessibility option, but a distinct choice within game design. The max value is a choice in each game by developers based on how much they want a player to be able to see. Having set points of view is also not as uncommon as people here claimed and also a distinct choice.
Shadowborn is comparable to other perks, you yourself did it and compared it to BT in one of your counters to me. To make the claim if they consider making that base kit they can consider this, which I stated is true. Yet just as with BT they will need to see what needs to be adjusted accordingly. It isn't a base option that should be handed out for free without consideration and will have impact on developers spending time on making adjustments.
It provides additional information for the cost of a perk slot. You claim an increase in vision by 15% is nothing worth mentioning, but it is more than you think. Its affect to like the fatigue animations are clear showcases of it and does more than you would believe. It feels like just a tiny bit, but it is the accumulated effect of it as it is always active. There are multiple FoV increases attached to perks, monitor and abuse is another. The idea that using that parameter as an effect on a perk is totally fine. Them doing so showcases that the developers understand what it does and what type of effect it has on gameplay.
You are twisting what the topics original statement was namely that a FoV slider is a base setting of which the max should be higher than the current value. This is what I commented on, you on the other hand are trying to twist what I am stating as if pointing out the reality is bad for the topic.
You state yourself they would need to change aspects like fatigue animations, meaning it no longer is just a base option without any gameplay effects. Maps are designed for the current FoV of both killers and survivors. 15% is a lot of additional vision to always have and losing a perk slot is fairly significant, else people wouldn't be here complaining about it. It is like stating stretched res was just a small percentage further out and the game isn't built around it. Can the devs consider adjusting the FoV for killers, sure... but it is more than just a base option, without consequences and impact on the games balance. It is a flat out buff, which I would not mind but at least I understand what it is.
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@DarKStaR350z said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2974774#Comment_2974774
Increasing FoV to see an extra inch around the edge of the screen is not comparable to seeing auras through walls across the whole map, or having an audio queue when within a certain radius of a player.
No one is asking for BBQ or Whispers as accessibility/QoL options.
Im not ‘bashing’ you; just pointing out that the comparison you are making is very disingenuous.
If you would actually read what I state, you would also have read that I stated it is taking the same premise but just a bit further to showcase the point that perks are not just QoL, but part of gameplay. How irrelevant you might believe it is, this is a gameplay balance metric that impacts nearly all elements in the design. Having more vision means you get more information. Information that is key to making decisions in the game. People already brought up fatigue animations being less impactful with the additional vision, ability to sneak past a killer, etc.
My point still stands, that this is more than just a QoL adaptation, but a fundamental buff to killers and affects more than what people like you believe. That is simple game design principles at work, if you are incapable of understanding that premise there is no rational debate going to happen. . I already indicated it is something that they could consider, but if you believe that it is pure QoL then you simply unable to reflect on the reality of what such a change does.
It just comes across that you are trying to fill in what I mean rather than actually reading what I write.
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@DarKStaR350z said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2973425#Comment_2973425
This is the direct quote from you I replied to ‘So, how do you propose to enable stealth, if there are no dark corners to hide, and the fov is wide enough so noone goes unnoticed?’
FoV does nothing to stop people going unnoticed, you can still hide in the same places; except directly at the killers feet right in front of them.
Adjusting brightness settings and using filters are things people already do and are accepted which do affect hiding in dark corners, yet are not punished and an accepted part of the game while not being restricted to a perk slot.
Here are some comparisons of the tiny difference Shadowborn makes, and why it would make no difference to ‘stealth’.
It is quality of life and should not be a perk; it does not make the huge difference you imply it does.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2973658#Comment_2973658
See the comparison pictures above; comparing the 15% FoV increase from Shadowborn to perks like Whispers and BBQ is very disingenuous.
They are talking about making Borrowed Time base kit, but a small FoV increase would break game balance so much it needs to require a perk slot?
If they need to address game balance later then that is fine, but a 15% FoV increase is QoL and should not be tied to a perk slot.
You are misrepresenting what I state, it is not simply an accessibility or qol option as people claim. It is more than just that.
You bash me for comparing it to other information perks, as if they also don't provide better QoL when used. Why you don't like it when people use the same reasons but take it a bit further? This shows the true nature of the argument being flawed.
They are considering bt as base kit, but they ain't just slapping it on for free. I am not stating it isn't something that they could consider, but just as any perk just handing it out for free is a clear gameplay buff.
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@DarKStaR350z said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2972534#Comment_2972534
The ability to increase FoV is already in the game as a perk and therefore taken into account balance wise.
It does not give enough of an advantage to be restricted to a perk slot and should be a basic in game option.
The increase in information comes at a price, acting like removing restrictions means that the game is balanced around it being for free. Whispers, BBQ, etc. all provide additional information and costs a perk slot... should they all be basic in game options.
It is not simply a quality of life, accessibility option and is part of game balance. Acting like giving out perks for free is not impactful at all, is just naive. The restriction is part of the balance, you gain info but use one of the slots that could be used for other perks.
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People that claim it is purely an accessibility option do not have any clue about game design. Games that provide higher options are balanced around the highest levels and that is a distinct choice that is made.
What people are able to see is an extremely important factor in game design. There are many games that have set camera settings for that reason. Changing it in the default options means that maps need to change, etc. to account for the additional vision.
You might not see the impact of it, but the developers are very aware of it. Imagine a more extreme example, give killers a 3rd person perspective similar to survivors it helps people, it is just accessibility or would that change the whole game?
If the default option gives you motion sickness, that sucks. Yet you are uninformed and naive in the narrative that it is a meaningless factor in game design. The games that provider sliders do so to make it possible to be more restrictive than the chosen max, not the other way around.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2968727#Comment_2968727
If ineffectually trying to chase survivors around with a dude on your back, inevitably dropping them, rechasing and trying to accomplish the same pointless task again is your idea of a good time, go for it. Feels rather mindless to me. I can think of a dozen more interesting joke builds off the top of my head.
Did you even read the first post? What exactly else would you do with it?
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There is no one answer fits all, there are a fair bit of variables in the game to consider.
There are a multitude of factors that you need to consider:
1. Know when to drop chase. Try to acknowledge when you got enough out of a chase whether it is a couple of good pallets, them going to an unfavourable area, etc.
2. I identify the weak link, if there is a person clicky clicky chase me, that they are usually not the best choice to go for. If they follow you around just see it as a positive, as they aren't working on gens.
3. Assume they will try and save, don't be to greedy and consider the options. If you know they want to flashlight save, pallet save etc. Don't instantly pick up, what angle do you look towards whe picking up, consider looking first in a different direction and the 180 into the one you want, etc. Slugging is pressure.
4. Consider where you hook people, basement, middle of a 3 gen, etc. Try making it an advantage to you. Yeah this is proxy camp, but reality is that it is effective. If the hook isn't strategic, you should be moving away from it and trying to get a down somewhere else... if they insta save, you can still tunnel them naturally.
5. Don't expect to be able to 12 hook, as much as people hate it. Tunnel, ping pong between the same survivors and actually killing them is just good play. Don't stare yourself blind at it, good survivors when outclassing you can make you lose the game if to focused on it.
6. Adapt to the situation as much as you can, ignore any idea of "but the fun of the survivors" you are playing for your fun and if you start playing for their fun... you will lose. They are not playing for your fun, so who will do so if you aren't either.
7. Try your best, try to learn from the experience and don't worry to much about it afterwards. It was a hard game, you might lose and that is alright. If you do this, then eventually you will learn how to play and sometimes you will win.
As a killer you need to realize, there is a time and place to camp, tunnel, slug, chase, defend gens, etc. Learning when to do what is what makes you better, while learning you will also lose.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2965291#Comment_2965291
That combo would work exactly one time, assuming that survivors are trying to body block.
Body block? You would literally run around with a person on your back trying to chase people.
The concept of a mem build?
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That would make Agitation, Iron Grip, Starstruck, Mad Grid into a fun M1 super killer mode build 😎
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I would stay, as someone that solos as well... the platform of the other survivors doesn't mean that much it is always a coin flip. Then again, I ain't no pro survivor either.
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@BadZilla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2962782#Comment_2962782
I feel like it's mainly how boring gens are so if the game had like a different playstyle of you searching the map for parts and installing them it would be much more fun and appealing maybe.
To many people go, the killer is tunneling! You state to blame the killer gameplay and people don't focus on why the survivors DC. Yet ever consider to figure out why most killers do it?
By your own accord the survivors try to instant unhook their teammates, which makes the obvious choice for the killer to turn around and wack the same guy. If the team wants to instantly remove all the pressure generated by the killer, the smart thing is to simply punish it. If survivors were more focused on sitting tight for 30 seconds on gens, give the killers some space and make it less effective?
The person which is receiving the punishment isn't the one that made the mistake, but as a survivor you are part of a team even in solo queue. The it would even be better for the team that if you are the one receiving the short stick, to stick it out and provide a chance for your team... but they DC.
Now it is the responsibility of the killer to ease up? That is so hypocritical, if a killer gets creamed not a single survivor will give them a free hook mid trial, you know to bounce back?
Blame your team for disconnecting, playing aggressively and failing to do the proper thing. Gens are boring, but it is part of survivor gameplay and so is hanging on the hook for 60+ seconds.
There is nothing wrong with playing to win... both sides do it.
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Imagine trying to shame people for trying to win in a game. What is hard to grasp about that concept? Why wouldn't you try?
Who says people are trying to prove something, they are simply doing their best to play. Why would you play to lose?
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I run BT as a survivor and take the hit if needed, it is far more beneficial for the majority. DS is a strong perk, but rather run some type of information perk as a solo. Also, usually not insta saving also cuts down on the tunneling efficiency and frequency.
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Prestige 3 and everything unlocked? 600h in I would simply be happy with a couple of characters I enjoyed playing no prestige and everything unlocked... what the hell are you talking about?
I guess you are clueless of how monstrously large the grind is.
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@Tatt3dWon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2926367#Comment_2926367
no killers win all the time killer is just boring to me its not my thing I found it way to easy.
Congratulations in 30 mins you won 'all the time' it is to easy, with your thousands of hours experience in the game and limited hours playing killer will have a balanced perspective? You focus on how killers play in order to win and state it needs to be addressed without any indication of understanding why people play that way; it is a back and forth.
Have fun playing civ.
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@Wylrin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2926400#Comment_2926400
Oh, I agree! I don't consider winning and having fun to be the same thing. (Though I probably didn't convey that well in my original post, my bad.) To me personally, having fun can equal winning, but the reverse of that - winning equaling having fun - doesn't translate the same way by any means. So the two terms are definitely not perfectly interchangeable. There are games that are stressful that you technically win in the end, but that doesn't necessarily mean you had fun.
I know it's not a conventional definition of the word, but to myself personally, I view having fun as a partial win regardless of how poorly I performed or how survivors managed to outplay me. I recognize that, from a conventional game score standpoint, I didn't perform as well as I could have. At the same time, though, just having fun translates to me as... maybe not a win from the actual game standpoint, but from a personal emotional standpoint. Maybe that's a better way of putting it. I'm not exactly winning at the game, but if I had fun, I'm maintaining a positive outlook and playing a game for its intended purpose - to have fun.
So yeah, honestly, it isn't necessarily a win from a gameplay standpoint, but a, "This made me happy and I really enjoyed that." Which, especially with everything going on in the world, I'll gladly take that sort of win. X3
I hope that better explains my perspective on the matter. :)
If you only consider fun matches a victory, you no longer are capable of establishing a base line that applies to everyone. Simply because what makes something enjoyable is totally subjective. A victory condition is an objective outcome, enjoyment isn't that.
People rather play a game they enjoyed than one that they didn't, even if they lose. The reason is because we play games to relax and enjoy. There is however also a correlation between winning and ones enjoyment. A game can be fun even when losing, but if it becomes the only outcome possible the fun of it starts to diminish with time. We want to have the ability to win, have a chance and for many also means it has to bring some form of challenge. Have the feeling you are improving, becoming better and are able to put up a fight, if that doesn't happen it stops being fun and that is when people quit. In the end people play for fun, this isn't their job it is their hobby.
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It is simply part of the game, sometimes it is simply the correct play for the killer and sometimes it isn't.
In the end both sides have things that are not nice for the other. I do run BT in nearly all my survivor builds.
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I read your piece and believe you are confusing a win and what you considered a fun game. These are not one and the same, as people can have a good game even when they lose and a bad game while still winning. People confuse this so often, but a win is not the definition of fun.
Sure it is nicer to win than lose, but it isn't the only aspect of what is fun. You can have a miserable time during the match and at the end your opponent throws the game... you might win and it is better than losing, but it doesn't mean that it was a good game.
I consider a win a 3/4 kill or escape based on the side I play a 2/2 is a tie and a 1/0 loss. As a survivor I do view it as a team game, so I can die and still consider the game a win.
Don't get me wrong here, I try to win... but I don't always do the best option if there is a more enjoyable path which can still get me the win. I however don't try and throw the match just for the sake of it either.
Above all, you do you! Have fun it is a game.
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Mmmmh 2200 hours as survivor, 30 mins of killer. Tell us, how enjoyable was the killer experience that you gave that up after 30 mins?
You bored, maybe it is time to try killer? Play as you state that you want killers to and see how enjoyable that is, especially after you climb the MMR and face survivors that know what they do and can finish the game in 5 to 7 mins if you last just a tiny bit to long in chases.
You are missing something, the balanced perspective of what it takes for a killer to win.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2921494#Comment_2921494
"Most of the time the victory goes to the sweatier side"
Yes.
"DBD is sided to whatever side decides to be the nastiest (huge flaw in design) and that's why a Killer can get a ~2k average with a huge handicap if they are willing to play as dirty as you can."
Yes.
"- No real incentive to play nice or spice things up"
Yes.
All of these are true and I agree with them. Killers have an "I-Win" button and choose not to use it in most matches. If every killer-player decided to use it, kill rates would sky-rocket. Killers-players for the most part, are extremely nice and don't use the "I-Win" button. I know I don't and when I play survivors, there's a lot of killer-players that don't.
That's not the problem. The problem is the "I-Win" button is there and is used. It hurts killers because it raises kill rates for the killers who want to play nasty. And, it hurts survivors because it requires survivors to have DS and a player running BT to make it hurt the killer time-wise in a chase. Even then, a determined killer and dead-zones can make BT and DS useless.
Your statements aren't lining up;
If for the most part killers are extremely nice and don't use the "I-Win button"
Then all the complaints about tunneling and camping aren't warranted. Yet people claim it is rampant and all over the place.
Then the impact they have on the numbers wouldn't be significant enough to be worrying.
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If what you state were true survivors wouldn't need the perks that you claim they do, as the odd game out would be easily left behind and moved on. Yet they use them all the time (survivor meta perks has been the same for years) even against killers that don't hit this 'button' and pushes killers that don't into playing that way; which is why I state that nearly every single killer actually hits this so called button at some point in the match if they want to win or they play blight/nurse. Good killers just simply know when to hit the button, hit it to soon and good survivors will simply smash out enough gens to escape, do it to late and well it won't provide enough pressure to matter. This is showcased by the experiment of Otz as well, because I can guarantee you that these 5,000 - 9,000+ players aren't just camping and tunneling the first guy they see and slapping them on a random hook without a thought process.
The so called "I-Win" button you claim it is, isn't actually an I-Win button just as splitting up and doing gens extremely fast isn't a guarantee to win. It is simply sweaty play and the side that plays more sweaty is more likely to win. The sweat lords on the survivor end are perfectly capable of putting up resistance against these tactics. Each side has their 'I-Win' button, the question simply comes down to, who uses them better and what mistakes do we make. At high MMR just mindlessly tunneling/camping the first person you see is by no stretch of the imagination a guaranteed win.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2921303#Comment_2921303
Yeah, it's absolutely horrible how hard it is for killer to get kills at high MMR.
I Tried Otzdarva's Killer Challenge... - Dead By Daylight - YouTube
I Did Otzdarva's AFK Challenge TWICE | Night Survivors VS Day Survivors - Dead by Daylight - YouTube
I AFK'd for 30secs with NO PERKS / ADD-ONS! | Dead by Daylight - YouTube
I Did Otzdarva's AFK Challenge TWICE | Night Survivors VS Day Survivors - Dead by Daylight - YouTube
I think you should also realize what the challenge show cases:
https://twitter.com/otzdarvayt/status/1479461876669030400The conclusions:
"Most of the time the victory goes to the sweatier side"
"DBD is sided to whatever side decides to be the nastiest (huge flaw in design) and that's why a Killer can get a ~2k average with a huge handicap if they are willing to play as dirty as you can."
Going... well streamers can do it even with a handicap, but they use the tactics that people complain about! Most people will admit that they aren't close to the level of these individual players and so even though people might not give a heads start etc. Their general gameplay will be inferior in comparison.
Getting a 2k average is also lopsided, as it is far easier for a killer that even loses to secure a single kill, as also pointed out by Otz in this experiment. This means that to have a 50% kill rate on average you would have to lose more than 50% significantly and it is also why in the stats by the developers most killers do have a bit above 50%. That is just how statistics work.
Also, which killer you play significantly impacts the ability to how nice you can play. Regardless of that fact, if as a player you want to win in the game you have to play in these fashions for both killer and survivor. Survivors spread out, slam gens, break up 3-gens, try to waste as much time as possible of the killer, go for saves while killers will secure 3-gens, tunnel, camp and slug. Either side holding back is just going to result in them most likely losing, because most people play to win.
As Otz points out there is:
"- No real incentive to play nice or spice things up"
That is not the players fault and whether survivors want to believe it or not... there are many sweaty survivors, which is why people complain about the meta of both sides. Want a change... get BHVR to give people incentives or at the minimum alternatives that are viable and not just for the very few S-Tier killers.
The truth of the matter is, if you want to get kills you either play dirty or you play Nurse/Blight? Nearly everyone else needs to camp/tunnel at some point in the game and even then there are no guarantees, timing and how your opponents respond are just as vital to whether it works or not.
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@Notretsam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2918741#Comment_2918741
what the actual hell? BT only comes into effect when you tunnel is untrue? It's the WHOLE point of the perk and certainly how it's used.
Your right it isn't fun if survivors interject themselves in the chase but it's free hits and there not doing gens, so it helps you. if you run into BT during a chase, then either 1) u tunnelled or 2) the survivor outplayed you but it is frustrating, no diff between that or them using iron will or dead hard to extend a chase
for the rest of your post, go back to my many posts in this thread, I already answered you many times.
I will add if killers didn't tunnel/camp, then kill stats be more accurate and more likely to show BHVR there is an issue with game balance.
an easy counter is to not tunnel which is why borrowed time becoming base-kit, stacking with the perk, and both being doubled is really not that big a deal.
Do you even read what you type?
BT only comes into effect when you tunnel? But...
1) You were tunneling.
2) The survivor did something while you weren't tunneling and that is frustrating? -> Doesn't this mean that it would be used while the killer isn't tunneling?
Where is the incentive: Don't tunnel... still get hit with BT, because you got 'outplayed' by a 24/48 second buff while not tunneling versus the tunnel from the start and get hit with BT from the start hell most likely in a quicker manner. Seeing that time is the most important aspect of playing killer, you should just do it at the start it saves the survivor a 15 second to get to you and means your chase is now 15 seconds shorter of what it would be anyway...
The outplay and extension is the equivalent of what people can do with Dead Hard by your own admission. I don't know the perk that is considered by most as the most powerful perk in the entirety of the game. One of the most frustrating and considered by many an unfun interaction for the killer. Like that is a good idea to add to the game? The game is about fun and considering the other side? Guess once again that only applies to survivors... lets try making more of the most complained and frustrating experiences for killers ooh and to top it off, lets make it basekit!
No worries, once all the killers left the game by adding even more frustrating and unfun mechanics for killers to face with... BHVR will fix their game! BOT KILLERS incoming... because no human being will want to be one.
Like seriously... actually go and try to win a game consistently as killer, actually try getting kills every single match and do that for a longer period of time. Then see how survivors use BT, DH, etc. and tell me where the considering the killers fun comes into play? By your logic, if you were camped or tunneled to death... you simply got outplayed.
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@Notretsam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2918560#Comment_2918560
we're just both repeating ourselves now, its only not fun if you tunnel, if you don't, it's irrelevant <<<<<<<<fact
if they interject themselves in the chase, then it's on them if you tunnel them.
You claim that BT only comes into effect if you tunnel is untrue. You yourself accept the survivor can interject themselves into a situation where the killer is targeting a different survivor... the definition of not tunneling.
It isn't fun for the killer if the survivors interject themselves into the chase, they are already not tunneling and yet get hit with the effect that is by your own according only supposed to be relevant if they are tunneling! You even claim that if they do so... now you should tunnel? But you weren't! Now imagine you actually down them... they have DS and what they are to blame for tunneling? The uno reverse card play does not apply. In essence your suggestion is; Killers should tunnel, here have a mechanic that makes sure that even if you weren't... you are treated as if you were tunneling, so now you can do so guilt free?
You fail to acknowledge the strength the effects and benefits that good survivors can get out of this. How that this mechanic is unfun for killers to face. You fail to respond to the elephant in the room, how is this to be considered enjoyable for killers? Where is the consideration to the fun of killers? How is this making the game more balanced, by adding a really powerful effect and ability to survivors... base kit!
You even have the audacity to claim this:
"it's that the game is balanced too much to survivors, that is a separate issue and quite frankly making the changes to borrowed time I suggest in the long run would help with that."
You don't care about fun of the killers, that much is clear; nothing in your suggestion would help killers, not in the short or long run. You state killers should never win, which means they should lose by definition. I don't know who you think finds it fun to lose especially if that is the only outcome they will ever get... and your suggestion is clearly geared to that.
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@Notretsam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2918102#Comment_2918102
it only ruins the fun of the killer if you tunnel, if you don't tunnel, then it doesn't do anything to you. If you need to tunnel for fun, then I feel very sorry for you.
I'm not ignoring the fun of the killer, I stated a few times things are bad for the killer, mentioned head-on should be disabled, and mentioned killers need love as well. Survivors are just as bad as killers, it's a community-wide issue but for the most part, you can play around the cheap tactics with exception of head-on. killers are the ones that have the power to completely ruin the game for everyone.
The bigger issue for killers isn't the cheap tactics that survivors do, it's that the game is balanced too much to survivors, that is a separate issue and quite frankly making the changes to borrowed time I suggest in the long run would help with that.
BT and DS can only be used against you if you allow them to by tunnelling, if you don't tunnel, they do nothing and survivors get no value. If a survivor runs directly at you after they been unhooked, then clearly, 1) they have DS or 2) they have BT. if they go into a locker, then they have DS. Remember all you have to do is hit survivor once and BT is disabled. if they run at you and they get in your way, then they're asking to be tunnelled and quite frankly it be stupid to run at you, as they wasting the full BT protection they have.
Also how many times do I have to repeat myself on I'm not playing to frigging lose, doesn't matter how many times you try to say I am, I am not, I try to get kills and I do so without tunnelling, it seems clear I'm going to have to keep repeating myself many more times In here because at the end of the day, y'alll clutching at straws to defend tunnelling/camping when there is no defence of it.
an easy counter is to not tunnel which is why borrowed time becoming base-kit, stacking with the perk, and both being doubled is really not that big a deal.
You are incapable of reading and claim it only affects you if you tunnel. I have stated by giving survivors a 48 second BT means they can cross the map to inject themselves into a chase with a different survivor.
They already do so to defend their mate that unhooked them in front of your nose! They do this to remove the pressure you created as a killer as soon as possible. That is opposite of tunneling, as you are trying to down the other survivor and not the one fresh off the hook. You claim that it is stupid, but it is not, they aren't wasting it as they utilize it to give their team an additional health state... just as they do now, that is what skilled survivors will do with it. With 12 seconds it is them asking to be tunneled, because you can count it out... with 48 seconds you are forced to hit them, it doesn't disable then btw it is activated, giving them a speed burst and that benefits the survivors.
I suggest you start trying to win and get kills, instead of throwing in the towel when survivors play that way and then come back to say how easy it is. This will help killers in the long run? How, nothing you suggest positively influences the killer or changes the balance you yourself state is survivor sided... just makes it more in their favor by giving them even stronger tools.
If fun is the main consideration, your suggestion fails as it introduces a mechanic that is unfun for the killers.
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@Notretsam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2917995#Comment_2917995
I play to have fun, that is why everyone plays games, to have fun, putting your own need to win ahead of other people's fun is wrong. I still get kills playing the way I do and I earn the kills by not tunnelling, I haven't given up on kills, I just respect that other people in the game are there for the same reason as me, to have fun.
Yet again, in no way do I mean you should play to lose, if I meant that, I would say that. I said the fun of the game is trying to get kills or escapes, and clearly, if you do, then well done but I can have just as much fun in a match without getting any kills, and a fun match is a win for all in the match.
Also, yet again, an easy counter to borrowed time and decisive strike is to not tunnel, it really isn't that big a deal if borrowed time became base kit and stacked with the perk. I would love to see the change and I would love to see borrowed time perk disabled in the end game, the quality of life in the game would be immense from this one change.
I repeat myself again, I never once said you should play to lose, it just doesn't matter if you don't get any kills or don't escape if you playing survivor. As for SBMM, why should we care about something you don't see and really have no idea what your MMR rating is, SBMM is just there to match-make us, it's clearly flawed and quite frankly irrelevant.
edit* I'm adding in, that there is a balance shift needed for the killer side and killers need some love for sure, but that doesn't mean what I'm saying about borrowed time is wrong.
Those that play killer and are trying to get kills are playing for fun as well? Your definition of fun isn't one and the same for everyone, as I really don't mind if I am being tunneled in a game for instance when I play survivor. Once again you ignore the aspects of the killers fun in your analysis. People playing to get kills, them tunneling and camping isn't because they aren't trying to have fun. You don't care about whether your attempts to get kills is successful, you claim there is no win... but the developers have defined it.
You aren't trying to win, you even stopped caring about losing and just accept that it is to be expected. Don't you realize that this means your MMR tanks and you might be facing people that are way lower than where it would be if you actually tried to get kills? Good for you that you play in a way you like and stop caring whether you were successful or not, but expecting people to not try and win/kill is unrealistic. Ever considered the fact that people play in these manners, because if they don't they just get creamed and that isn't fun? Why don't people play in the manner you state? Everyone here is playing for fun aren't they? So... if there was a more fun way to play, people would do that no? Yet somehow that isn't the reality?
You are acting like survivors are not capable of making the game unfun for the killer. You act like survivors are going out of their way to make the game enjoyable for the killers in any way shape or form? That is the thing with a versus game, people are playing for their own fun and it shouldn't be a requirement to sacrifice that in the name of someone else's fun.
You state BT and DS can be avoided by not tunneling, while ignoring the manner in which survivors can use these things to protect others as well. A lot of aspects in the game that results in these tactics being used is the back and forth between both sides making the game as hard as possible for the other. Survivors are not worried about killers fun in most games, they slam gens when they have the chance, they will flashlight save, pallet save, body block, prevent the killer of getting hooks when they have the chance.
People already body block for each other, especially if they have BT. Making it quadruple the length just means they can reach any area on the map in that time frame and do it. Is that fun for the killer, you are in chase the guy coming off the hook comes from cross map and blocks you to interrupt your chase... that is fun for the survivor, but isn't fun for the killer.
Your entire attitude and manner of posting is not considering both sides. All you are stating is: Killers must focus on the fun of others and ignores the fact that survivors don't do that either. Then make a suggestion to make the game harder, more difficult, more frustrating and easier for survivors to 'ruin' the fun of the killer. Maybe you should think about why people play in that way, a way you claim isn't fun... if you want to gut that manner of playing, what needs to change on the other end to make other plays more viable?
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@Notretsam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2917179#Comment_2917179
I never said played to lose, I said there are no such things as winning and losing, I also said the fun is trying to escape and get kills, not actually escaping and getting kills.
playing killer is already not fun for most because of SBMM and boons. unless you play like I do and don't care if everyone escapes. doing what I said with borrowed time doesn't change that and doesn't effect any killer at all. Unless they tunnel which we all know is not fun for the survivor who is being tunnelled.
The goal of killer is to kill, even you state it as the fun is trying to get kills. Then follow that up with the statement you don't care if everyone escapes, that means you aren't actually trying to get kills.
Just because you have given up on trying to get kills and to win, as that is what the devs stated is a win for killer. You can play to lose, that is fine but expecting others to do that is unrealistic.
The fact of the matter is you are trying to adjust one aspect of the game, in the name of fun. While you completely ignore the fun of the other end. The fun by your own words is to try and get a kill, the mechanics you suggest make that significantly more difficult and frustrating. It wouldn't only affect tunneling killers, ever heard of body blocking? Even with current BT people go and help their teammates, imagine having the time to run across the map...
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Somehow... you don't really come across as someone that considers both ends. You play killer to ruin survivors fun, as that is what makes it more fun than survivor.
So, now you want to change the game so you can go play survivor to ruin killers fun? It doesn't sound like you are wanting people to have fun, but that you want to ruin others peoples experience in the game.
The claim that either side should never win is completely bonkers... how will you ever have any opponents if people are supposed to play to lose? Why wouldn't they not play the winning side?
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If people care about winning and one side plays the meta, you need to match them; be as efficient as possible aka sweat. Telling people to either not try to win or conform to the meta... is exactly the point that people are trying to address. There are no real alternatives other than outclassing your opponents, which guess what people don't really want either... domination is cool and all, for a couple of games, but most people want to have some sort of challenge. It isn't that they need a 100% win rate either, but a more even match... not just a stomp one way or another.
The OP doesn't understand that wanting to win and only playing meta... aren't one and the same.
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"That way if you wanted to see your competition afterward, that is of your choice as the player."
That is why they are going to hide it after these tests. Grades give no information about the competition. It is a false notion that too many people have and it is in its current state nothing more than a reward system for games played during the month.