Kaitsja
Kaitsja
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@Nos37 said:
Core issues are too deep in spaghetti to be changed.
Wait a few more years for Dead by Daylight 2...
- Built-in limitations for queueing as a group
- Built-in information for playing solo
- Map offerings now prevent the Entity from choosing that realm
- Downed survivors are taken by the Entity and placed on a random hook unknown to the killer, while the killer immediately gets back to patrolling and chasing (no slugging, no camping, but also no flashlight saves, no sabotage)
- If the killer is near the hook, the unhooked survivor is dropped into a random spot in the map (no tunnel-off-hook)
- Hooking different survivors reduces repair speeds (spreading hooks rewarded)
- Hooking the same survivor twice in a row resets the repair speed penalty back to 0 (tunneling punished)
- All endurance effects are disabled after all the generators have been completed (to give the killer a chance in endgame)
- All killer powers are disabled (and movespeed set to 115%) when there is only 1 remaining survivor (to give the last survivor a chance in endgame)
"Built-in limitations for queuing as a group" sounds an awful lot like "Punish people for playing with their friends."
"All Endurance effects disabled in endgame to give the killer a chance" Sounds an awful lot like "Killers deserve free kills in endgame"
"Downed survivors are taken by the Entity and placed on a random hook unknown to the killer, while the killer immediately gets back to patrolling and chasing (no slugging, no camping, but also no flashlight saves, no sabotage)" Have we really reached the point that hooking is a core issue?
"Hooking different survivors reduces repair speeds" Oh goodie, built-in repair speed reduction stacked with plaything+pentimento. That'll be so fun.
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Basekit Unbreakable would probably be a bad idea. Better to have an option for survivors to bleed out faster when slugged.
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Based on what you're saying, you're bad as clown. The Afterpiece Tonic's effects without add-ons has a 15% Hindered Effect on Survivors within the gas which lingers for 2 seconds upon leaving the gas. If you can't catch them with that much slowdown, the problem is you.
To put this into perspective, Survivors move at 100% (4.0m/s). Clown moves at 115% (4.6m/s). Afterpiece Tonic applies a 15% hindered (0.6m/s) to survivors within its area of effect. This means survivors move at 85% (3.4m/s) movement speed. Made for This is 3% (0.12m/s) Haste while running.
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This really isn't anything new. I consistently play against Huntress, Trapper, Blight, Oni, Myers, Wraith, and Wesker. I occasionally see Ghostface, Singularity, Plague, Knight, Pyramid, Dredge, Skull Merchant, and Pinhead. Almost never see the remaining killers.
This is at what I assume is mid-mmr. Or average, to put it another way. I almost never see particularly exceptional survivors.
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@NAERUUU said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3521077#Comment_3521077
Yeah, idk why so many gaming corps making BAD DECISIONS, mojang, blizzard, and now Steam
Because they can. It's really as simple as that. So long as people continue to throw money at them, they really couldn't care less about how customers perceive them.
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@NAERUUU said:
I signed, man, you have all my support.
Guys, think about the players who paid Stranger Things, check the current prize of the DLC, and sign the petition
The people who paid for the Stranger Things dlc are unaffected. Only people who were getting that DLC via Family Sharing on Steam are actually affected by this. This thread is placing the blame on BHVR, when it's actually Steam who changed their Family Sharing policy.
While I sympathise with people who no longer have access to the Stranger Things DLC, it doesn't change the fact that this has nothing to do with BHVR.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3520900#Comment_3520900
As for the topic: Made For This is absolutely fine in every way.
No it's not.
People who complain about it are really asking for survivors to go back to using exhaustion perks.
Yes, that is what I'm asking for. I'd rather go against 4 Sprint Bursts. I'd rather go against 4 Lithes. I'd rather go against 4 Dead Hards. They're at least slightly more interesting to play against than just "I go faster all the time lmao".
Until they're not and players end up clamoring for nerfs to those perks aswell.
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@Icaurs said:
So with made for this here is the real issue.
Against certain killers like nurse, blight, Singualrity. Killer's with fast downing potential MTS is honestly very manageable. I still think it should be nerfed, to at least 2% but it is something I can manage with as killer. The problem is some killers, the perks make the survivor almost uncatchable, largely because of how easy it is to break chase. Use it to break chase and killers will not get blood lust. MTS is another example of some killers being so far above what a killer should be that the perk appears balanced.
MFT is the abbreviation, not MTS.
@Xernoton said:
If you are so desperate to keep your 3% haste effect, then we should at least change it to have some actual downsides.
I think MFT should make you permanently exhausted but lose the downside of it not working while exhausted. This would remove any synergy with other exhaustion perks. Something that I've seen people claim is the case anyway in the defense of MFT. So it shouldn't make that much of a difference, right?
Second, the Endurance effect is stupid. You do not need to have an insanely strong perk and give it an additional effect that is also strong. And you shouldn't have so many possibilities to gain Endurance that the killer has no possible way of knowing how you got it.
Third, there should be an indicator on the HUD telling the killer, that a survivor has an active haste effect.
Fourth, haste stacking should not be a thing. The killer already has no early game, as they will be busy walking across the map to find the first survivor, while the survivors already get a head start on their objective. 3 genning is due for a nerf, which results in a significantly weaker late game for the killer. Haste stacking on top of that removes the killer's end game. If you manage to get caught while you move at 110% speed, than that is the worst case of skill issue I can imagine.
We want killers to play nice and not tunnel, camp and slug all the time and not run the strongest regression perks every game but we simultaneously shorten matches and remove more and more ways for them to create pressure. At some point, I've got to ask: "When is the killer actually expected to get stuff done?" Especially when matches can already end in well under 5 minutes and BHVR want the average chase to take about 45 seconds (which let's be real, is way shorter than in reality for many killers and isn't helped by MFT's existence either).
I do agree that the perk should have an indicator, and I do agree that it should lose the endurance. I also agree with the removal of haste stacking.
I think that having it cause exhaustion but allowing it to work while exhausted just removes one of the only three counters the perk has, and I'm not so sure that's such a good idea.
It would be less of a problem if there were more perks and add-ons that cause exhaustion.
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@Hester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3520560#Comment_3520560
Behavior has changed it and is now pretending that steam policy has changed, and steam policy was changed 9 years ago.
They addressed this on twitter. This is a Steam Policy Change and has nothing to do with them.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
Make a perk that exhaust survivor on basic attack hit.
Like 10 seconds would be probably enough.
You can add some random secondary effect and behold meta killer perk.
I think main issue is killers don't need strong perks to be sold (DLC), survivor does.
That's probably why there is no good gen regression/slowdown perk in last 5 chapters or so. Best killers can get are information perks.
I agree with you. Killer generally doesn't need strong perks to sell, provided their power is strong, but SM and Singularity didn't quite hit the mark in terms of having what I would consider strong powers. Their perks also don't really seem too great either.
I've skipped Singularity and SM because their powers are too gimmicky and because their perks are fairly weak/niche.
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No. If the survivor has already cleared the window, the hit should not connect.
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Self-care for Survivors, Blood Echo for killers. With self-care being as bad as it is, you have to run it with Botany unless you want to be healing for an eternity. Blood Echo because there is a noticable lack of perks and add-ons that actually cause exhaustion, which is concerning.
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@Raccoon said:
You did watch the video you referred me to, right?
It showed WoO at the end of every round.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3517610#Comment_3517610
Bond is already in the top 10 or something - but I can't really address whataboutisms and fictitious scenarios.
Lethal Pursuer is definitely strong, I'll agree, but again, the topic is WoO.
I play the game at what I can assume is mid or mid-high MMR on both sides using very low tier killers on the killer side - I use and go against WoO constantly.
I know WoO is good.
The video I was referred to also highlights a few instances where WoO provides crucial information - There's a reason WoO was used in said experiment as it makes optimal looping/pathing/chaining easier.
I'm not jumping on a bandwagon or anything - I've said this about WoO for a very long time.
I did, and while I admit that I was wrong about the video I still stand by the opinion that, while the perk is strong, it is by no means overpowered or in need of a nerf. I've had some time to watch more experienced players using the perk to run loops, and it's only further highlighted just how badly designed maps are in general.
Map knowledge, at least in regards to the older realms (Azarov's, Coldwind, Swamp, MacMillan's), is still the closest thing to WoO, and while it may not be perfect, people would still be making M1 killers miserable, which seems to be the basis for the complaints surrounding WoO.
Does it provide perfect information? Yes. Does that information turn people into god loopers? Hardly. If anything it encourages "Holding W", which is a complaint I've heard on here that I don't fully understand.
If your issue with Windows is simply that it provides perfect information, then I've got nothing, because it does.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3517547#Comment_3517547
Hens is clearly running WoO and pre-emptively calling out stuff in his commentary like "We don't have the good window."
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZDCJ3C3HS9W7/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/JEB02IE1A1DP/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZJF3T058ARHR/image.png
Can you explain why you don't think WoO is being run on the survivor side?
Oh, you're right my bad. Dunno why I thought he wasn't. Maybe I just tuned out all the yellow. Idk.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3517496#Comment_3517496
Are you talking about this video....where he uses WoO....and also says stuff like "Oh, this isn't a good pallet" / "We don't have the good window" while playing?
Yes that video, where Otz was running Zanshin and Hens was not running WoO.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3517459#Comment_3517459
Ah, the WoO gaslighting with the fallback on map design.
I don't recall mentioning map design at all in my arguments - just WoO's current effect on the game in its current form.
I'll just go back to my WoO and continue to succeed using the PERFECT information it provides instead of ignoring the reality of the perk, its popularity, and its usage in high end teams (solo or not) - It's clear there is, per usual, no real discussion to be had.
Everything's an insult, and everything's a put down.
And I will once again point out how you can achieve the same results with map knowledge. Look no further than Hens vs Otz 1v1.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3517447#Comment_3517447
"Excluding Windows that will either be open or closed, window locations are static and determined only by the type of tile that spawned."
Windows does not give me grief - I use it in my main build.
I'll just bow out as the conversation is circular.
The conversation is circular because your smoking gun is a window that may or may not be closed, but hey, it's not like there's a billion pallets in the map or those infamous L-T Walls, or all those guaranteed long loops that are just pain for killers. General map knowledge gives you 99% of the information Windows gives you with the only exception being the few Windows that may or may not be open.
Come back with an actual smoking gun, instead of a water pistol. WoO is not responsible for bad map design.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3517406#Comment_3517406
Is there way to know a window is open without seeing it? I'd add it to my arsenal if you share.
It also guides me to pallets and vaults without thinking about the map at all.
If I'm the first person chased, the killer usually has to drop chase or loses a crazy amount of time and, often, the game.
If I'm not the first person chased, I get enough knowledge about what is used/remains in order to chain enough stuff together to burn a decent chunk of time.
People really like to downplay WoO when it provides PERFECT information. There's no guesswork, no wondering if there will be a pallet/open window - The information is 100% accurate and in your face at all times.
In my 1400 hours of playing, I've seen very few windows that change due to RNG. Ormond comes to mind with the vault into main (where the basement stairs would be) is blocked if basement spawned in shack. Not hugely impactful unless you're running balanced landing.
Excluding Windows that will either be open or closed, window locations are static and determined only by the type of tile that spawned. Jungle gyms will always have a window and a pallet, for instance while pallet gyms (Long C-shaped wall with a short I-shaped wall) will only contain a pallet.
As for pallets, they have fixed locations and will either spawn in one spot or in a different spot a very short distance away. Ormond's Balcony Pallet will either spawn on the outdoor stairs side, or it'll spawn on the indoor stairs side. Similarly, there'll either be a pallet between the couches next to basement in main, or it'll be near the fireplace. It'll never not spawn.
With enough knowledge of maps and tile spawns, you basically have WoO built-in. As I've said, the strength of the perk is not in knowing what spawned where. It's in knowing what resources you still have available. You can always change your loadout to counter it if it's giving you that much grief. It's an aura reading perk, and like all aura reading perks, it's affected by blindness.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3516569#Comment_3516569
It also shows you where the window spawns are without having to physically see them, SWF or not.
Not that window spawns are particularly unpredictable either. People act like WoO is guiding people to pallets and vaults when anyone with sufficient map knowledge can do the same.
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These challenges don't actually require you to be hiding. They simply require you to be within X Meters of the killer while not being chased or looked at by the killer.
You can chase the killer while they're chasing someone else and it'll work. That's how I complete these challenges.
As for Doc's static blast, the radius for that is directly proportional to his terror radius. So 32m, or 40m with Distressing.
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@Snowball777 said:
It needs either a distance reduction or a cooldown, it is free wallhacks for every safety net across half of nearly ever map.
I don't think people understand just how crazy this perk is, it's the most used for a reason.
If you haven't watched the Hens vs Otz 1v1 video, I recommend you do so. Hens didn't run WoO, but it still took Otz a minimum of 1:52 to get his first hit on Hens, and that was purely due to Hens making a mistake. Map was Garden of Pain.
You don't need WoO to know where pallets are on maps like Garden, Gideon, Ormond, Coldwind, Autohaven. On Gas Heaven, I know that there's a pallet inside the shop section of main, and another pallet in the garage section. I know there is a pallet either adjacent to the fuel bowsers, or over near the window. I know there's a pallet at killer shack.
On Ormond, I know there are three pallets inside main. A pallet by the snow tractor. A pallet on the balcony. A pallet between the rocks on the way to shack from the snow tractor. I don't know every pallet location, but I know enough to make it hell for the killer even without WoO.
The strength of Windows lies in the fact that you know which pallets have been used so you can avoid deadzones. I just don't get how y'all think Windows is a problem when pallet spawns are static enough that you never really need to question if it's there or not.
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@DemonDaddy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3516529#Comment_3516529
It's not that I think solos are better or don't goof, surely the do and mistakes are aren't uncommon. Getting 3 randoms all throwing to the killer immediately, now that's something I very rarely have witnessed. The exception to that for me is swf. Is it every swf, no, but I'd still take a longer que to avoid swf altogether.
I'm not suggesting this to make swf ques worse, but if that's the outcome from so many solos picking the option, then I think the solution would be for devs to review and address why such a majority would opt out.
And again I'm only asking for this as a survivor option, there is no doubt how negative this would be if killers could pick.
There'd be nothing to review. It's not like a perk where you can simply adjust a numerical value. Solos make up the majority of survivor queues, followed shortly behind by duos, with trios and 4-mans making up a much smaller percentage.
There's nothing that prevents someone from just stealthing all game, never working a gen or getting a rescue, all so they can get hatch. Similarly, there's nothing to stop people from bringing flashlights and trying to blind the killer and goofing off instead of trying to win.
Enough solos would opt out of playing with swfs to disproportionately affect queue times because enough trios leave them to die on hook. There's really nothing that can be done about that.
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A ranked mode would not make the game any better. It would simply result in split queues, which benefits nobody. If I wanted that, I'd go play Overwatch. People complain about balance in dbd but forget that their competitive multiplayer games are generally balanced top down.
Dbd does not balance from the top down. In top-down balance, the game is most balanced at the highest level of play and the people at the top inarguably know the most and what's best for that level of play. But top-down balance isn't perfect. It's based on the idea that buffs and nerfs will trickle down the ladder, which makes sense in theory until you realize that buffs and nerfs don't affect each skill bracket equally.
Here's an example from Overwatch. The devs released a hero to shut down a meta. This hero went on to dominate the game, quickly becoming the most picked with the highest winrate and basically being a tank despite being a support. After many many nerfs, they settled on a rework that turned the character into being heavily reliant on their team. The hero was still strong at the highest levels of play, but inarguably significantly weaker at the low and mid levels of play.
The rework did not have an equal effect on every skill bracket, because the changes were made with the highest level of play in mind.
Arguably, dbd is the most balanced it's ever been. The devs are working on maps to make them less survivor/killer-sided. Perks could still use some work, but the devs are getting there. Killer powers are generally pretty balanced, too. There's not much in the game that could be considered too strong.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3516006#Comment_3516006
Overwatch was much easier to get into than dbd. And in my experience overwatch is way more toxic
Oh 100% Overwatch is more toxic, but that's not the subject of discussion here. It's that a ranked mode wouldn't make all the sweaty players just play that mode exclusively.
In Overwatch, you have Arcade for goofing off, Quickplay for a quick match with no ranking, and competitive for increasing your rank. In QP, you've got: "It's just qp lol. Why are you trying?", "We're warming up for comp", and then you've got the premades who just want easy games.
The first example is people who are just testing out new heroes, not even trying to progress the objective. The second example is a group of 3 - 5 who use qp matches to "warm up" for comp, and proceed to steamroll your uncoordinated team with all meta picks. The third example is a 5-man premade who just wants to ruin everyone elses fun.
Ironically, the ranked mode is far more chill and less sweaty than quickplay because people derank for losing and nobody wants to be stuck in Bronze hell.
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@DemonDaddy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3516020#Comment_3516020
I don't want killers to go easy, my issue is getting placed for the benefit of swf groups. It's also not a matter of fairness since what you stated is disregarding an individual's desire for fun just to benefit a groups access to faster matchmaking.
Not every solo would opt out, just like crossplay is an option not everyone takes. If the change proves that dramatic then maybe the devs could review what makes swf so unappealing.
The kind of games you hate getting aren't strictly limited to swf. You aren't being placed for the benefit of swf groups, you're being placed because you're in a similar MMR range or they've been waiting for too long and the game needs a fourth survivor to start. It just happened to be you that drew the short straw.
You're making out like solos are really good players who never goof around, and always try their hardest, yet I've been left to second stage more times than I can count by solos who stayed glued to a gen.
I've seen solos do the bare minimum the entire game just so they can increase their chances of getting hatch. I've seen solos go down in chase within 15 seconds. I've looped the killer for what should've been 3 gens, and not a single gen popped. But that's just luck of the draw.
You remember the bad games far more prominently than the good ones. This thread is just you being upset that you got matched with a 3-man bully squad, and wanting to increase queue times for swfs because of it. Punishing people for playing with their friends will never be fair.
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@DemonDaddy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3515571#Comment_3515571
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3515941#Comment_3515941
Yeah those ques would likely increase, though that would also indicate there is a problem with swf which drove players to the decision.
But that wouldn't be fair. If you think killers would go easy if they knew they were playing against solo queue players, you have way too much faith in people.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3515681#Comment_3515681
I'm not saying EVERYBODY will suddenly play nicely. Gaming doesn't work like that.
But it will certainly lessen the issue, the sweaty players who want to win at all costs will more naturally gravitate towards ranked play. And in the casual playlist you'll be more likely to run into other more casual players. Not 100% of the time but certainly more than currently happens.
Clearly you've never played Overwatch. Arcade? Sweaty. Quickplay? Sweaty. Competitive? Surprisingly less sweaty.
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@Rulebreaker said:
Could always run the blindness stuff and watch survivors get very confused
But then they'd have no reason to complain.
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@Snowball777 said:
It needs either a distance reduction or a cooldown, it is free wallhacks for every safety net across half of nearly ever map.
I don't think people understand just how crazy this perk is, it's the most used for a reason.
Or, hear me out, you could learn to counter the perk instead of clamoring for everything you dislike to be nerfed.
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I don't understand all this incessant complaining about WoO. It literally only shows survivors the location of pallets, breakable walls and vaults. Use blindness to disable the perk.
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@DemonDaddy said:
I want to choose whether or not I get placed in a swf lobby. Let me flip a switch like cross play and keep me out of the swf shenanigans.
Before someone gets the wrong idea and claims most killers would turn swf off, I'm talking about when I play survivor. Let me play solo with solos.
I don't mind losing because of my mistakes.
I don't mind the killer getting an advantage from someone else's mistake.
What I do mind is being placed in a swf lobby cause their mmr average has them waiting too long, only for the swf to be goofing around and throwing the match. I find nothing enjoyable about watching 3 teammates go down because their flashlight and head on/endurance builds couldn't get the killer to dc.
What do you think would happen to queue times if a large number of solos did that? They'd increase exponentially for both duos and trios.
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@thisislastyearsmodel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3515867#Comment_3515867
This is a fair point, but it's an equally fair point that killers don't want to play against a team that has a built-in advantage. Even more so if they're using comms.
That's not really a fair point considering that the advantage you get from comms is minimal unless you're a coordinated 4-man swf using callouts like Team Eternal does.
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@Nos37 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3515886#Comment_3515886
Killers are punished because they aren't balanced around SWF. They aren't balanced around solos. They're stuck in the middle. Hands tied behind their back and told to keep their head above water. Any skill expression from the killer is considered a bug or an exploit and is swiftly removed. Any skill expression from the survivor is considered a tech or a feature and gets praised in YouTube videos. Whatever makes 80% of the playerbase (survivor role) happy...
If you hadn't noticed, there's this neat little feature called Custom Game where you can play killer against bot survivors. I mean, that's what you want isn't it? Since you're complaining about how much weaker killer is in comparison to survivor.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3515875#Comment_3515875
The goal isn't to make it "get picked less" its to make the times it gets picked feel less opressive
30s is more than enough time to get value out of the perk. Thats 3.6 meters of extra distance that takes effect during the second part of chase , while SB gives you 6m just so you can make it to a loop.
MFTs haste is problematic. Loops were designed with 4m/s in mind and anything over that breaks the game.
Try chasing someone on haddonfield houses where they can break chase and reset BL with mft ans you'll see how broken the 3% is.
We are never going to come to an agreement on this. Your suggestion dumpsters the perk.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3515353#Comment_3515353
It's not incorrect, it's literally what happens unless you want to walk for the whole match.
Congratulations you've identified the problem killer players have been pointing out.
The injured state went from something that was undesirable to something that actively buffs survivors and thats where the problem is.
If "mft only impacts high mmr lobbies" then surely it warrants a nerf , keeps fairness at high mmr without impacting low-mid mmr.
Bottom line is, it makes no sense for a killer to buff a survivor because they... hit them....
30s timer on mft and resi and there you go, perfectly balanced as all things should be.
Your suggestion doesn't simply nerf the perk into being picked less, it dumpsters the perk. Injure a survivor, wait 30 seconds, no more MFT.
My suggestion? The 3% Haste stays, the endurance is dropped, haste effects no longer stack, and the user incurs a 5/10/15% repair speed penalty while injured.
That should encourage survivors to heal while keeping the perk strong, and also result in it being picked less at high mmr. That tackles the issue of it working with Resi and Hope.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3515376#Comment_3515376
There aren't just good players and bad players, though. There are new players with little to no experience, the tutorial is very lacking, and when inexperienced players hear some bit of advice like "99% the gate" they don't understand what it means or when it does and doesn't apply. No one tells them they have to stay by the door and open it or else all they've done is created a death trap to counter a seldom seen perk.
People learn over time. I've gotten better as I've played. No one starts out being an expert at a video game.
EGC has been around for a while, but I've only recently started seeing teammates 99% an exit gate after the other has already been opened. I don't know how it started or what prompted it, but apparently there are a growing number of players who need the exit gate mechanics explained to them.
In my experience, new players tend to immediately open the gates and leave. Yes, the tutorial is very lacking but that's by design, since a lot of the stuff you learn is from playing the game and can't really be taught.
Clearly there's someone spreading misinformation about when to 99 the gates, because I have never seen a single post anywhere telling people to 99 the gates in EGC.
@coco_shotz said:
This mainly started due to blood warden but since the perk is not heavily used anymore I don't see why we have to constantly leave the gates 99
99ing the gates isn't just about avoiding Blood Warden. It prevents the timer for EGC starting, which allows time for rescues. I've had matches where I was hooked as the last gen popped, and because somebody opened the gate, the killer trapped me in a lose-lose situation where I could neither reach the open gate nor reach the other gate without getting downed so I was left in a position where my only choice was to be taken by the entity.
It's very much something that only experienced survivors should do, since they have enough knowledge to make an informed decision about when to open the gates and when to 99 them.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3515368#Comment_3515368
There is no benefit to 99%ing an exit gate once EGC has started. It does not counter Blood Warden. I'm coming across a lot of survivors who don't seem to know how exit gates work.
Yes, I'm aware which is why I pointed out that a PSA isn't going to stop bad players from playing badly and that the good players already know the benefits of 99ing the gates, and already know it's pointless to 99 in EGC.
Tbh it's the first time I've heard of someone 99ing a gate during EGC.
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@TragicSolitude said:
^ This.
Also, I'm getting a lot of teammates who 99% a gate after the other gate has been opened. I mean, I can see them, I'm running towards them, the EGC is counting down, and they pull away at 99%.
We badly need a PSA about how to handle exit gates.
We really don't. Bad players will continue to play badly, while good players already know the benefits of 99ing the gate.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3514777#Comment_3514777
Yes... and you do realize that SB only works every 40 seconds, On the condition that it triggers once you press shift to run anywhere.
You SBd towards the gen that the killer is checking? You essentially don't have a perk.
Even if you do happen to have it on hand , the one time use at the start of a chase isn't that oppressive considering a ranged killer can just shoot you or mobility killers being able to catch up quickly while you're SBing to a tile.
Lithe, once again, 1 time use per chase on a vault condition, 40s cooldown. If you made the vault anyway the perk didn't rob the killer of a hit
Then theres MFT ... a *permanent 3% haste* because youre injured, allows you to make vaults and pallets you shouldn't have, creates infinites because it often breaks chase and resets bloodlust (haddonfield houses are especially bad when it comes to this). It robs killers out of hits and creates chase extensions you don't deserve because "perk goes brrr"
It will forever boggle my mind to see survivors claim SB and lithe are better than MFT, yet they all run MFT+Resi.
Either someones a liar and wants to defend their new busted toy or all survivor players have an ego problem and think they are godloopers
Somebody using SB incorrectly doesn't make it inferior to MFT. Same deal with Lithe. How is MFT any different to what you've just said in relation to ranged and mobility killers?
SB and Lithe both rob killers out of hits too, but you don't see anyone complaining about that.
Everything in this game that mildly inconveniences the killer can be considered undeserved. I, for one, hardly ever see the perk at mid MMR and when I do see it, the person running it still goes down in less than 30 seconds. So the only people suffering are those at high MMR.
People are running MFT+Resi because healing was nerfed across the board. That's kind of what happens when healing options get gutted and limited to "Hey, either bring a Medkit for one full heal or find a teammate to heal you." If they're going to remain injured, they may as well benefit from it. Not to mention the cherry ontop that is Sloppy.
Sure, SB and Lithe may be one-time chase extenders but if used when the survivor isn't injured, the killer either drops chase on that survivor altogether (Giving them time to get rid of the exhaustion) or it extends chase and "robs the killer" of hits.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3514626#Comment_3514626
It would kill the perk for who?
If low-mid survivors can't last longer than 30s in chase or just hide, then the perk is doing nothing in its current state like you claim.
A high mmr survivor would still get value out of mft and extend a chase for 20+ seconds but wouldn't be able to be infinitely speed bosted and discourage staying perma injured for 9% gen speed from resi and 3% haste from mft.
Again, how is a balance change that only affects already good survivors be bad?
Its like removing blight hug tech, your average blight player wont be affected, meanwhile the best blights would feel the nerf.
You do realize that there is a middle bracket of people who are neither low MMR nor high MMR. You are not necessarily one or the other. Low survivors are still learning how to play the game. That or they're just so attrociously bad at the game that they cannot possibly win.
The perk is killed, as in nobody will pick it, because 30 seconds for 3% haste while injured just isn't worth the perk slot when you can have Sprint Burst or Lithe and avoid being injured in the first place. Not to mention that the on-hit speed boost survivors get is 6.6m/s for 1.8s, and Overcome allows them to retain that for an extra 2 seconds, which makes it far better than 3% haste for 30 seconds.
I would think that you would understand how much more valuable it is at high mmr to be able to wait until the last possible second to sprint burst away from the killer, causing them to whiff and gaining distance, while still preserving a health state.
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@DredgeyEdgey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3514616#Comment_3514616
Dredge Is affected by mft
if they run windows
Of pays attention before night fall
And mft makes holding w stronger now
He really isn't. The teleport ability isn't just for building nightfall.
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@Raptorrotas said:
The difference between tunneling/killrushing and genrushing/gentunneling is the community survivor bias telling every that its bad when the killers do it and fine/normal when survivors do it.
Lol.
Both are bad and suck the fun out of the game for the other side.
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@Exarion said:
the only problematic haste effect in the game is mft. crippling whole haste system because of it? are you kidding? just reduce bonus to 2% and attach 30 seconds time limit
end of story
Because a 30 second time limit will definitely not make the perk a much weaker pick than an exhaustion perk like Sprint Burst or Lithe. You have to be injured to get the 3% haste.
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@DredgeyEdgey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3514544#Comment_3514544
20% more distance is still insane that's a 20% margin of error that surivors can make and still get to a pallet
I didn't say it was weak. It's definitely strong, but I feel like Otz's suggestions on how to nerf the perk would allow it to remain strong without just gutting the perk.
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@GensByDaylight said:
I will describe what "genrushing" is most commonly described as when salt is not involved.
Survivors are ignoring all other objectives, including killer specific in a desperation to finish all generators as quickly as possible. Multiple survivors also running builds that contain toolboxes+BNPs and Hyperfocus+Stake out type perks is also "genrushing", as long as they sit on the generators.
If survivors spray to clear Wesker's uroboros, they are not genrushing.
Survivors favoring an unhook over finishing a generator is NOT genrushing.
A build is not required to be "genrishing", but without a genrush build the term is very narrow.
If there's no incentive to do other objectives, there's no point in taking the extra time to do it. That's just common sense. Do you go out of your way to destroy every breakable wall as killer? Of course not. What's the incentive? You're just wasting time.
Pinhead's Box can't be ignored, Pig's helmets can only be ignored if survivors 99 the gens, there's no benefit to using the vaccine against Nemmy, Plague's fountains are ignored to avoid giving her a power-up, Wesker's infection inflicts survivors with 8% hindered ontop of automatically carrying them if they're caught by his virulent bound so there's incentive to spray, there's little incentive to not be in the dream state against Freddy, and you have to snap out of Doctor's Tier 3 Madness in order to do gens.
I feel like I'm missing a few, but I can't think of any others. I mean, there's Demo but I haven't seen a Demodog in ages. Does anybody still play him?
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I agree with you. It needs to be addressed ASAP. It's blatantly overpowered and unfair.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3514566#Comment_3514566
Keyword is "lobby"
A 1k hour survivor isn't going to run a 1k hour killer for "multiple gens".
However a 10h survivor vs a 10h killer will juice an extra couple of seconds just by holding W with MFT in a straight line. Coupled with the fact that even a badly thrown pallet can gain you 10-20 seconds vs a new killer, it isn't hard to juice a minute of chase in low mmr.
However in high mmr lobbies where both killer and survivor have optimized their loop/anti loop skill, being just 0.6m (every 5s with mft = 0.6m distance gain) ahead of where you would be is enough for you to drop a pallet in the killers face or make a vault you wouldn't have otherwise made.
Slap a 30s timer on mft and the low-mid mmr lobbies won't notice or feel the difference while high mmr lobbies won't feel horrible to play.
A timer that short would kill the perk. It'd have to be at least 90 seconds for it to remain a viable alternative to exhaustion perks.
Low MMR survivors spend half the game hiding in lockers and walk everywhere because scratch marks. A 10h killer hasn't even learned how to mindgame. Little Timmy with 10 hours is still going down in 15 seconds because he only knows how to run in a straight line.
Let's not pretend like low MMR survivors are somehow getting immense value out of MFT when they haven't even grasped the fundamentals of the game.
As for high MMR lobbies, the developers have stated they won't make changes that would make the game better for the 1% if it comes at the expense of the 99%. High MMR will always feel bad for that exact reason.
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@GensByDaylight said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3514562#Comment_3514562
"Adversely short"
Ok, here are the killers it hurts massively. When survivors have MFT:
Myers: Almost unable to catch anyone unless in tier 3
Doctor: Charging your shock makes you slower than survivors. Nothing else must be said.
Freddy: He's an m1 killer.
Pig: She is also an m1 killer
Deathslinger: His 4.4 movement speed makes hitting shots in loops even harder.
Dredge: Oddly enough, he is heavily impacted due to the benefit when a survivor W-keys. Keep in mind that it takes 20% longer when someone just straight W's.
There are many other killers that aren't killed by it, such as GF, but they are still massively impacted.
The real issue with MFT is that impacts low-tier killers the most. It doesn't impact nurse/blight and barley impacts most A-tier killers.
Slinger would be affected by literally any exhaustion perk, and pretty much any competent survivor in general. Freddy's snares apply a 15% hindered effect to survivors in the dream state, and injuring a survivor puts them in the dream state. T3 Myers ignores MFT since, you know, Exposed insta-downs.
Dredge isn't really affected by MFT due to his built-in anti-loop, and Nightfall significantly reducing survivors vision. Unless a person running MFT knows every nook and cranny of the map, Dredge has the advantage during Nightfall. Dredge also has the iridescent plank add-on.
I've already addressed Pig and Doctor. As I said, the list of killers adversely affected by MFT is actually quite short. The vast majority of the roster is largely unaffected by MFT.
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@Snowball777 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3514562#Comment_3514562
Literally every Killer that is not Nurse, Blight, or ranged is adversely effected by this.
The best Killers are unaffected while it is a baseball bat the head of the weakest Killers, it is AWFUL design that has ruined the game.
It's really not as bad as that. Maybe you're just bad at killer. I main Ghostface and have zero problems with MFT. Other people on here have reported having zero problems with MFT and they main Pig and Doctor.
The killers most affected by the perk are Trapper, Hag, Doctor, Pig, and Nemesis. To be fair, Nemesis has a very weird design with infection not really doing much of anything against survivors. Trapper and Hag want to push survivors into their web rather than away from it. That just leaves Doctor and Pig.
Doctor is particularly adversely affected by it due to how it messes with the timing of shock therapy preventing survivors from interacting with pallets/vaults, while Pig is adversely affected by it due to it messing with her dash.
So, that's 6 killers who are particularly affected by MFT. Clearly not the baseball bat you claim.