Johnny_XMan
Johnny_XMan
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Because it wouldn’t make sense RNG-wise.
You already have the ability to bring a map of your choice via the offering system. Why not just use that?
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@Hex_Stalk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1689371#Comment_1689371
Did you not read the very first sentence? I specifically said "These are things I've heard so take them with a grain of salt"
Can't blame them tbh. Considering how much "talk" and "rumors" go around these forums, that it wouldn't take you but 2 seconds to post a source. Because unfortunately it gets people rattled up about things that haven't happened yet.
Edit: Here is a screenshot from the stream, where it shows what you are talking about. There was no word if that is a typo either way.
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What rank killers are you facing?
Rank means nothing, but in rank 5-12 you are still going to get baby killers who don't fully understand the game. While you (a killer main) has at least experience they might not. So you can mind-game in areas they still have yet to learn.
This was my experience when I started playing killer. I was kind of bad in the beginning, but then I started thinking "what would I do as a survivor" and it game me a whole new perspective on gameplay.
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I’m still enjoying killer.
I think it’s funny when I’m playing someone like trapper against SWF red ranks and getting 3-4ks and the thought of these forums constantly complaining crosses my mind.
I get bored when I play against boosted survivors because I feel like the matches are super boring. Like, even when they go super sweaty they can be so boring because of how many mistakes they make.
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@MadLordJack said:
Uh... So you want to discuss your own extremely sweaty build? Or are we gonna ignore that and jump on the anti-SWF bandwagon?
It's okay to bring strong stuff on both sides. I see no problem with anything in this screenshot, except maybe the exceptionally high gamma. I'm not attempting to justify behaviour but we only have your word for it.
We may not agree on everything, but I agree with you here.
It's another case of "Stop being so sweaty but let me be sweaty".
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I agree OP.
The reason why many solo survivors are bad isn't because they are solo. They are just bad.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Why cant Killers accept that SWF does not mean that they become godlike players by just clicking a Button to invite other players to their lobby?
Because there is a segment of this community that apparently think you get magical skills when you play in swf.
Like you know... the ability to loop a killer, the ability to hold M1 when you are in the killer's TR, the ability to understand map set ups, the ability to save teammates off hooks in a safe way, the ability to get out of sticky situations. All those things that normally require thinking.
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@DerpyPlayz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686636#Comment_1686636
Again this is why your argument is fallacious.
It is that there inherently is a "gap" or whatever word you would like to use that's its equivalent.
A "Gap" in the context used is obviously inherently as a disadvantage as well.
This is whats known as a strawman this second part, as your statement implies that my argument was that bad survivors who can't loop got better at the game solely due to them being in a SWF when that is no what I said at all.
Sure its important ONLY when we are talking about skill, and not inherently unfair advantaged based on the function of the party system being able to be abused to give this unfair advantage. Sadly we only talking about the second part, so what you are trying to prove is irrelevant as it doesn't have anything to do with the conversation.
Well of course you stated your case silly, I mean sure you say its not to repeat yourself but very clearly anyone who saw my reply to you would realized I quoted you on three different equations and in all three made valid counter points. Silly, you aren't fooling anyone by implying I am just stating what others say and that's the reason that you won't reply to my previous arguments. Its very clear as of now especially then before that if you don't strawman me then you have no way to actually give a counter explanation because in reality you don't have one.
Not what you said at all?
Dude. Read what you imply here:
The fact that you think it is irrelevant to the conversation when the very topic of this thread is about the state in which solo queue survivors find themselves in, because of this "gap" since they do not possess the information that swf do makes it important and relevant.
Skill is important because you are referring to a player's ability/inability play the game. If you have a bunch of players who do not understand how the game works and want to use that as your excuse to buff killers simply because swf gives you some advantage. Then it is important to discuss.
Strawman?
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@DerpyPlayz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686520#Comment_1686520
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686509#Comment_1686509
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686484#Comment_1686484
I'd like to address your fallacious argument.
Firstly, this is just a fact that SWF are unbalanced. There are a multitude of reasons for this however information IS the reason. It (being information) allows for you to choose the perks of everyone before the match starts, items, addons, map offerings (This likely is going to be changed from what I hear, also I state that only SWF have this choice as even if a killer brings an offering if two or more survivors bring one it makes it unlikely to be the killers offering), ect.
Meaning a swf in general, even a bad one as long as they are somewhat competent can lay the ground rules for everything other then what the killer will be doing in the match (and ofc random loop formations, and general rng) and this is just the start of a SWF's power before the game has even started purely based solely on information. The fact that all this is true / can be true is troubling.
I like how you state "if you can't loop a killer, are not good with timing" ect, because this is irrelevant to the conversation. The point is, that SWF have an inherit advantage due to information and ability to coordinate from a level that is unparalleled to solo survivors.
if we were to look at the two; a fair argument would be that you could being in info perks such Bond, therefore in this situation a solo surv would have great information and can make and foresee plays that otherwise could not of been done otherwise. I have a counterargument however, because as I already demonstrated, the ground rules for a SWF are set from the start, and they already naturally have coms. For this reason Bond would be a perk waste as long as the survs are decent, as they could just use coms instead, not only could they save a perk slot however coms would disable any other limits (Such as Bond's X radius to see survs) and be able to give universal callouts to everyone all at once.
Yes you are acknowledging that there is an advantage however you all the same are downplaying it the same way you think person(s) are unplaying it.
Im unsure of the buffs to killers universally I don't know how that would fair, although one thing they could do is give an extra X or XX seconds to gen time when you are vsing SWF. It would be subtle and even only an extra 7 - 10 seconds would be nice.
Lastly, I would assume someone with 4000hrs in this game would know of the other ways a SWF is unbalanced other then what I have already listed so I decided to keep this as short and not go on about the other reasons for a time save. Although I have been playing this game since late 2018, I have much more then 4000 hours in total I am sure as I avidly played the duration.
I only stated this last bit to prove how irrelevant as a point this is to bring up, as it doesn't matter to the argument how long you have been playing and more so it is a appeal to authority which is a fallacy.
The discussion isn’t about how SWF is unbalanced. It is about the “gap” between solo vs SWF survivors.
Please show a video where someone who can’t loop a killer magically got better at looping once they were in a SWF group. Please do.
I did point out the skill of the player because that is important when we are having a conversation about a gap between both types.
As for the rest, I’ve already rested my case. So I’ll simply keep it at refer to previous comments. I am not going to repeat myself.
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@MusicNerd_TC said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686520#Comment_1686520
As far as I'm concerned, you quoted and mentioned me, so you did reply to me, and I just replied to you.
"So again, you can't generalize and assume that because solo queue survivors don't have comms they are bad players." That's what you literally told me, I never said that, ever, so you did say that I said solo queue survivors are bad because they don't have comms.
Because that was in connection with the message I responded to, in which you intervened. I never meant YOU yourself can't generalize. I meant that comment as in general no one should generalize and assume.
I replied to you because your response acted as an extension the person's comment I responded to. Which was this:
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@MusicNerd_TC said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686502#Comment_1686502
Yeah, it does validate the existence of buffs for killers, because it is a ridiculous amount of free information, that solos don't have. Also, might I ask you if you were going against SWF as trapper? If so, how many survivors were trapped, also I'd like video evidence, because that sounds cap.
You don't need to be a good player to share free information across the team. I never said that solo survivor are bad players because they don't have comms, this is a strawman.
First off, you are replying to a reply I made to someone else. Something which I have seen you do time after time.
I responded with comms DO NOT give you skills needed to win the match. Then you go ahead and list those things as if I am not somehow aware that they exist. Which just goes to show you miss my initial point.
And also where did I say that you said solo queue survivors are bad because they do not have comms? I know you didn't say it. I am letting you know my perspective/stance after over 4000 hours in this game on both killer and survivor.
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686484#Comment_1686484
Of course,i've never said that you couldn't do good in solo queue.
I also know that information doesn't equal easy wins.It's obvious that you need a certain amount of skill to capitalize on that information.
What you can't deny is that more information will make games much more consistent.
For example,just knowing when somebody is on a gen or in a chase and planning accordingly can make a big impact.
And just the same I acknowledge that there is an advantage to being in a swf. What I said was that it wasn't as big as some would like to think.
Why would the devs give indirect universal buffs to killers which are already in a good spot? At that point you are not giving them a buff you are overtuning them.
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@MusicNerd_TC said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686484#Comment_1686484
Really? Comms give you...
- Map wide bond.
- If one person has OoO they can call out the killers location.
- Immunity to blindness.
- Invalidates trappers whole existence.
- And so much more.
The only thing solo needs is a functioning MMR system, so good players can play with good players, and a totem counter.
And yet again... none of those things validate the existance of uneeded buffs for killers.
You can have all those things and still be a bad player. They wouldn't equate to a "buff" for solo survivors.
Wanna know what an actual buff looks like in solo queue? Kick the solo survivor out of the match and put a bot to hold M1 for you as you loop the killer. Too many times you are found carrying the team in solo queue.
On #4 Yikes. Really? I just had two matches as Trapper and got a 3k and a 4k in the other (in red ranks). So again, you can't generalize and assume that because solo queue survivors don't have comms they are bad players. They are bad players because they don't know how to play the game. Period.
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686472#Comment_1686472
The biggest gap between solo and SWF is information,which is why you simply can't play the exact same way you could when playing in a SWF.
As I stated before, this is simply untrue information.
You can be a reliable teammate with great coordination without comms. This has been proven time after time. Communication does not give you the skill needed to successfully win a match. You can have all the information in the world but if you can't loop a killer, are not good with timing (saving, when not to pick up a dying state survivor, recognize the killer is camping so therefore make yourself useful etc.) You will most likely fail if not cost your team time which they do not have.
This isn't as black and white as many claim it is, is what I am saying.
For too long solo queue survivors have been used as "They are just not as good because of comms" excuse in order to excuse these uneeded "buffs" for killers.
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The gap isn't that big. The skill gap is big.
You can't buff killers based on how bad solo queue survivors are doing while blaming it on them not having comms. Because they do just as bad in a swf team.
This is something that this community never likes to bring up. It's always "Let's fix the SWF problem"... which is exactly what? The comms? Cuz I can play the same way with or without comms. What I can't play with is teammates who don't know how to play. There is a big difference.
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I disagree. I have over 4000 hours and there are still moments within the game that scare me.
With that being said, people DO become more desensitized because the gameplay feels very repetitive. This is also why when they bring new maps people who have to learn them are more prone to being scared again.
There is also the fact that DBD isn't a scary experience for people who just got the game. Everyone's first time game experience is different.
I'm not saying you don't have a point, but it isn't as simple as "feeling safe". Just because you have a '2nd chance' perk slotted doesn't guarantee your safety. You still have to know how to play the game. Because by that theory then we would assume that everyone who doesn't have 2nd chance perks or whatnot are always scared. Which is simply not true.
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In what context are you asking if Looping is as "bad"?
Because one could argue that Camping is bad because it's not an effective strategy in most cases... If you mean "bad" in the context of Camping is bad, because it is deemed as 'wrong/unfair', fundamentally that is a part of the game... and it is well within the rules.
For me personally, they are both different because one requires thinking the other does not. One you basically remain idle while moving back and forth, and the other (even if you have a good set up) you still have to call out the killer's next move, and mind-game where possible. As I said that's my personal view.
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The thing is there are things within this game that no matter in what manner you do them, will be deemed as "Playing Unfair"... When in actuality they are all part of the game.
Like, for example... I just had a match in Haddonfield... where I hooked a survivor next to Laurie's home, and I saw a wounded survivor on the rooftop with a flashlight. Now, my first thought was she obviously wanted to be seen while not doing anything productive. She felt safe up there because she knew how much time it would take for me to follow upstairs. So I decided to wait. Meanwhile the hooked survivor goes to phase 2. In the endgame chat, they say "GG but what a camper". Then I feel like I have to explain my actions... while that Cheryl knew ALL Along why.
It's like no matter what you do, this game's actions will be viewed as "playing unfair". You get it from both ends, the real problem is that people could simply say gg (or not) and keep whatever else to themselves, but many people just don't. They would rather drag out a "Chill bro it's just a game" only after they have accused you of basically playing like they don't like. Yes I said THEY don't like, because everyone knows you are not breaking any rules.
Which is why my motto is don't except anyone to play nice. This is a pvp game. It comes with the territory.
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Yep.
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I mean I don’t think it’s a perfect system but it is better than not having it in place.
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Myers is far from being the worst.
He is actually one of the few killers who feels rewarding because you earn your expose. If you think you are meant to use his expose 24/7 you are using him wrong.
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@Ecstasy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1678132#Comment_1678132
This perception ("nah, good players just know what to do") is the excuse here, and a rather ridiculous once you actually break down the differences that "skill" is trying to take credit for here.
There's a thread where I've been burning through a lot of the simple arguments people make in defense of SWF (meaning Voice Comms), and outlining how they're patently false. They're far too substantial to quote all of here, but I'll post the one I'd made that absolutely shreds this misconception apart and link the thread.
I'd have sworn that thread was already in the general discussion forum, but looking now it seems to be in the feedback section. Weird. Stealth nerf to bury the discussion? Stealth buff to make sure it gets heard? Or maybe I'm wrong and always there.
Here's the thread, with this link directly going to the argument I'm going to quote below.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1669999#Comment_1669999
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The only times VC "doesn't mean anything" are matches where the skill levels are inherently unbalanced, and you're facing a team who you would always stomp in normal gameplay. Even casual VC is a crazy huge difference when this game does not take the changes into consideration or balance in any meaningful ways. No, it doesn't make individual players better at looping, or hiding, or skill checks--the benefits massively exceed that something far beyond that which dramatically shifts the gameplay to a different beast entirely.
The impact of being able to just say "hey I saw the NOED totem!" while being dragged to a hook is HUGE! Just in the early game something like "hey there's a trap right there" during a rescue could be the pivotal moment that ends up shifting a 0K to a 4K in a match that's actually balanced with how essential that early game is and the sort of momentum that can snowball from downing the savior and pulling the other 2 off the gens. Even the simplicity of "hey there's no traps around" is a huge boon when that 10 seconds of caution per occurrence is something that rivals the benefits of some time-waster perks.
VC is like everyone has the obsession skull marking where they know if you're in a chase, but obviously better because that means being able to rely information as it happens, heads there direction, or if its really over vs evaded temporarily.
VC is like everyone having kindred, but better obviously because you don't need to ever wait and see who's gonna stay and who will go for the rescue.
VC makes every killer into a plague or pig where everyone sees who they're up against as soon as one of them does and it eliminates those other few chances of catching someone off guard when early game is the most critical time for killers to start putting on pressure.
VC lets everyone know everything as soon as one player does and pool knowledge/experiences to determine your perks together.
VC is like everyone has distraction except instead of 20/30/40 meters they can orchestrate it across the map with the cooldown based only on however many second of the other player's time it takes.
VC adds a long range spine-chill where you get to know if the killer is coming from the other side of the map as long as someone else sees them pivot directions.
VC is a dulled version of the map marker where you can use any recognizable spot for meeting or decide whose going to which exit gate.
VC changes the whole dynamic towards optimization and compartmentalization where "the team" ends up being as strong as its strongest player instead of its weakest. Hell, it's the difference between being a "team" at all versus the asymmetrical gameplay of killer versus survivors who benefit from (but not beholden to) mutually beneficial cooperation. The whole idea of the survivor side is "survivor together... or alone" and creates that risk/reward of altruism and cooperation.
The list goes on and on... and, again, that's just casually. That's NOTHING if accounting for the game modifiers that come when skilled players are determined to bust this games wide open and start exploiting things like object of obsession. Any match balanced when the players don't have communication cannot also be balanced if those players had the benefit of communication. Period. One is balanced or the other. Never both.
I think anyone who (sincerely) says they "prefer the challenge" is mistaking the meaningful variable. It's really that the ranking system is so out of whack (and that's no surprise) they would've been paired with players below their performance level anyhow in that match. It's not "the challenge" of voice communication that's enjoyable sometimes. It's just that it changes things up with random cheats/debuffs that make bad "teams" they'd face decent. If you take any balanced/reasonable match-up and suddenly go from no communication to complete communication then the difference of voice communication means an opponent (ie, the teem in total, not each individual) can shift from good to damn near godly.
GitGud isn't the issue. Never has been, never will be. The issue is that "Dead By Daylight" offers 2 incredibly different games, but when you play killer you don't actually get a choice whether you'll play the fun one or not. You don't even get to know which one you're playing for sure, and most of the time you won't know until you're a goodway into things either. One game is balanced fun, and the other game just isn't. It's not fun watching gens go pop pop pop while you're in a single chase with their designated looper because VC lets you optimize and coordinate. It's not fun trying to find someone and having to dig behind every rock in futility because they were given a heads up in time to run off before you even got close. It's not fun having to run moris or tunnel the first player because leveling the playing field early on is your only chance of catching up to anything more than an end-game camp. It's not fun when the game is stripped of so many little variables of chance and confusion that otherwise yield interesting and unpredictable because some people would rather just cruise to the finish line when those chaotic elements are the very reason essence that makes games worth playing.
Its. Just. Not. Fun.
I am not saying that SWF comms don't make a difference...but SWF comms does not define nor dictate your skill level. I am saying that people on these forums want to pigeonhole every match 'strat' used on them as "It's SWF so therefore my skill didn't matter" When there was no skill to begin with.
Why do I say this? Because there are people who will use every little move a survivor does (Taking hits, Flashlight Saves, Sabo'ing hooks, Trading hooks, etc etc) as THEY MUST BE SURVIVE WITH FRIENDS! When it simply isn't and they are just players who know the game and how it works.
You can keep saying it's not fun, it doesn't mean it is as broken as you claim it is. Like I said you are really underestimating good players (not the ones who crouch all the time, not the ones who are scared little chickens when going for a save, not the ones who don't know how to look behind them).
Just because your friend knows the killer is on them doesn't mean they aren't able to sandbag. Doesn't mean they aren't capable of losing the killer and not knowing where they went. You are assuming that that one survivor being chased knows EVERYTHING that killer is going to do. Which is not true.
The reason many people play in SWF is not because there is this gigantic advantage. It is #1 To play with their friends #2 Because they are reliable people. I play with my friends without comms sometimes and we do just as fine. We understand how the game works. I also play killer in red ranks and against swf teams... and it is just as fun for me.
You don't have to take my word for it though. Many killers out there are doing just as fine, and don't have a problem with swf teams.
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You know that crackling sound when the entity kills the survivor with its claws during endgame collapse?
That’s what my bones sound when I get off my bed.
Ok just kidding, but I grew up watching 90s X Men the animated series (hence my name) So I'm up there 😄.
I’d like to think that more ‘adult’ age players play this game... but we know that isn’t exactly true.
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Sounds to me like you went back to basement hook to force a possible snowball. Which is very common with Oni players who camp.
In the end there is very little to go by, without any info, but if you were as skilled as you claim you are then you would know that there is a possibility of a DS stun waiting to happen, and would have slugged.
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I agree. Just on hitboxes themselves Huntress is worse. Hitboxes on here are less forgiving.
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@Yamaoka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1675822#Comment_1675822
Shouldn't DS help against a killer that camps and tunnels you off the hook (which in this case would deactivate DS by hooking the unhooker before you)?
Anyways I think current DS is fine. I have never lost a match solely because of the current version of DS.
I agree with you.
I also think DS is fine right now. Camping and Tunneling don’t have any downsides unless countered by perks, so I don’t understand all these people that want to nitpick everything about DS and ‘deactivate’ it by touching a gen or healing when they know damn well a good killer will just play around it.
Maybe we should just have them play as survivor without DS or BT against a camping and tunneling killer and see how well it goes for them.
The game is too flawed because of built-in mechanics to further nerf current DS.
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I think if would be cool if the entity showed itself just to slap the killer and say:
”You fool!”
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I know this is gonna come as a shock.
But everything I have seen listed that SWF can do, can also be done by good players even if they are in a Solo Q.
I feel like at point this SWF conversation has reached its limit where we are now just listening to excuses.
Literally everything I do in a SWF team, I do in a solo match. Why? Because if you are a good player you can still coordinate accordingly.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1676657#Comment_1676657
I don't disagree with you that this build was selected for my own playing style. I'm counting on them cleansing those Totems. It helps me find them faster. Instead of Corrupt Intervention which slows the furthest Generators down by cutting them off for two minutes, I'm using something that simply helps me locate my targets quicker. I gave the context that I use this for Myers and why. I agree that Killers that have higher mobility will probably not find the same utility here as they don't need this kind of edge.
But again, I disagree with you as my ability to get where I need with Spooky Myers is quite adequate. It is the FIRST Totem that they attempt to cleanse that will take the longest, and it is that Totem which I will be on before they are done. The key is that I will have found them, which is really my goal. Anything that happens after that is cake. If the Totems last, wonderful; if they get hit one by one, it is not really a loss and again, I don't care too much about them beyond being motion detectors. I only play Myers until I feel I am competent with him, so I can't speak to the efficacy of this build for the other Killers. But what I can tell you is that it works very well for me.
Are you including Undying in your build? Because of so, then here is the question I have. Most people (the ones who play optimally) will cleanse away any totem (hex or not) they find on their way to a gen.
Undying therefore has a smaller chance to transfer to another totem. Since you are already using 3 hex perk slots and two will most likely get cleansed... there is no totems left for whatever hex is cleansed next to transfer to, so the value of Undying then is basically very low, because the only thing Undying is left to do then is to give you those 2 second aura reveal, until it’s gone.
Like, (IMO) you get more value out of it when you pair it with like 1-2 hex perks, which is why I said I think adding Thrill is overkill. Then again since you are talking about a specific build maybe that would be an exception.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1676417#Comment_1676417
Not really, no. I want that audible notification so I immediately swing the correct direction (if I was looking the other way when they touch my totem). The extra time is usually enough for me to get there. This is because as Spooky Myers I tend utilize the center of the map extensively at the start to maximize my Wall Hacks while I'm doing the initial searches. I've failed to reach a Totem once with this configuration on the Mother's Dwelling Map (it is just huge) but aside from that if I decide to defend the Totem, I always get there before it blows if it is the first one being cleansed. It is that first Grab that I really want too.
You are using a VERY specific build to coincide with your point, I thought OP was asking in general. Undying reveals the survivor’s aura which is already giving you enough information IMO.
If survivors are encouraged to cleanse regular totems via Thrill, that means your ability (as spooky Myers) to get there in time is low, compared to if you didn’t have Undying. Why? Because the counter to Undying is to cleanse regular totems and get them out of the way. Which also makes your Thrill worthless at that point.
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Doesn’t Undying already give you the information that you need when they are cleansing your Hex?
The cleansing time increase isn’t worth it IMO. Not when having Undying is going to further encourage survivors to cleanse regular totems even more, making Undying worthless, because there’ll be no totems for it to possible transfer to.
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I agree, but It depends on the situation.
If I see a T3 Myers just hovering around your hook, you better believe I am going to let you go to phase 2, or until he or his expose goes away.
The goal is to play smart because in many situations you simply cannot even unhook even if you wanted to. Especially if they are camping with STBL.
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This game would be unbalanced without DS.
Too many built in mechanics that are constantly abused that DS counters.
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4,200 hours later and I don’t agree that devs play the favoritism card. I believe this community has become so divided because of the constant us vs them mentality they try to perpetuate on the daily.
Ps. I can’t believe this is your first post btw.
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@OllieHellhunter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1674995#Comment_1674995
That window Idea seems good tbh, I assume it was before the Ironworks window was nerfed since you give that one as an example. I like the idea of strong things remaining strong yet having limited uses.
Yes it was before, that’s why when they announced them I was excited, but quickly disappointed because it felt like they didn’t really keep interaction between players in mind.
I also agree with the idea of things remaining strong yet with limited uses. I think there is so much potential with this game that I felt like my idea was only scratching the surface.
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@OllieHellhunter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1674849#Comment_1674849
I agree on the breakable walls thing, it seems they make them so they need to be broken or theyre detrimental to be broken
Some time ago, before they even announced they were going to create breakable walls, I made a post which was to balance windows at structures. Especially those that needed balancing.
@Johnny_XMan said:
Something that I think has been long talked about since the introduction of many maps, and that I personally believe could be balanced better, are strong windows, specifically on buildings like "The Foundry" in Ironworks of Misery or "Grim Pantry" in Backwater Swamp... etc etc
Many have given their opinions, but from what I've gathered it's either been rework the entire structure by blocking the window or remove it altogether. Personally I am not a fan of either one.
So I came up with this idea where, the window will now have the ability to be destroyed (not by the killer) but by the survivor! Basically the window will go through several "crumbling" phases where the more you vault it, the more it crumbles to the ground, until it is no longer a window and all that is left is a doorway.
Here is a quick visual I made in PS for what I thought each phase could look like. Note that I only created 3 Phases, because currently the entity blocker happens at 3 vaults, but there could be more added depending on what would be considered "fair and balanced"...
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/827/3V3BB55BD2JC.png
This way the window still remains strong, but also overusing it can make it deplete. It also causes the survivors to be more cautious as to whether they want to preserve it or use it right away. Thus creating more creative plays rather than just everyone being like "Let me go back to that window again". The idea behind "phases" is so that if another player goes to try to use it, they understand that the window has already been used and therefore will know how many times they could vault it.
I also believe this could add other fun/creative perks for devs to create. All in all, I think this is a fair way to balance it without completely making it useless or overpowered.
What do you guys think? Share your thoughts please.
It would have balanced windows by giving survivors the option to use the window but also have to be mindful since it would get depleted (crumbled down into a doorway) as shown in the pics.
Like, I wouldn’t even be mad at these breakable walls but I do feel like survivors should be able to break them as well. Maybe they have to find an axe on the map that they can use, or could be an item that they can bring via the bloodweb. Just something more exciting.
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This is why survivor isn’t for everybody.
I play both sides and I enjoy both sides. They are both stressful at times but they can both be satisfying.
Survivor can be pretty easy if you are playing against less skilled players. Same with killer.
I also have to disagree wholeheartedly with the chase being boring. It is probably one of the most satisfying things about this game. I do agree survivor could use something different, but more objectives is not it. You are basically going to give killers just more time to kill.
What I would do is add more interactive gameplay between killer and survivor, so parts of the chase could feel more memorable. Instead what they are doing now is add breakable walls, and to me that is the opposite of what they should be doing because there is no interaction there.
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@Volfawott said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1673547#Comment_1673547
It has been described as an anti tunneling perk by most of the developers.
After repeatedly stating it's an anti tunnelling perk they can't really switch the narrative now
They didn't say you could only use it as an anti tunnel perk. In fact, it's not. You can take the stun and still tunnel the same survivor out.
It was stated by one of them that the community is the one who keeps saying it is strictly an anti tunnel perk, not them.
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@MusicNerd_TC said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1673718#Comment_1673718
Slugging is absolutely necessary to winning the game at high level play, you simply do not have enough time to get 12 hooks.
I play in red ranks, and yes sometimes it is.
Not to the level that he does though. You don’t have to always snowball to win. That is the point I am trying to make.
Slugging is a built-in mechanic and you can certainly abuse it if you want. That is not a secret.
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Are you not gonna mention how he was endlessly slugging too? Or is it going to be one of those posts where “it’s a legit strat”... but what survivors did is not ok?
Listen if you want to be taken serious, at least post a video of someone who isn’t running Undying/Ruin, because that is the equivalent of those “annoying” survivor combos. He got so much free pressure and he is playing a killer that basically shines when survivors are clumped in one section.
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@Volfawott said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1673314#Comment_1673314
I'm sorry but if you recently get unhooked and your first decision is to work the generator that is literally right by the hook you can't exactly shocked Pikachu face when if the killer comes back they go after you.
Here's an idea after getting unhooked how about you make sure you're safe before you just go off and do objectives.
If you feel like The Killers going to come back don't touch an objective or heal someone try to leave the area just in case they starts tunneling you. This way you make it harder for you to get to tunneled and you also have ds strike just in case the killer still finds you.
You shouldn't reward bad play styles with immunity. The problem with decisive strike is that people tend to use it to play a certain way that would often get them killed if they did that without the protection
I never said the survivor was working next to the hook they were just unhooked from. I said killers go back to track the survivor and will go out of their way to tunnel them out. Including but not limited to breaking a chase, even tho they didn’t have to.
Also, DS isn’t strictly anti tunnel so why the hell are we even arguing the timer? You play around it, if you know someone just got unhooked.
Here is an idea go chase someone else instead of nitpicking every little scenario in which DS could be used... I mean after all you have unlimited slug, unlimited camping capabilities.... but we don’t have to discuss how that in itself is broken do we?
Until then DS is fine as it is.
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Just because you begin to do an objective while having DS doesn’t mean the killer can’t come back and tunnel you.
This is why the timer remains after being unhooked. I have literally seen killers break a chase just to take out the person who was just unhooked. So the idea that one could simply touch another body while healing or a gen or totem and it deactivates is not fair when the killer can just play around that.
We don’t give camping/tunneling those limitations now do we?
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Thing is I agree with you OP, but the fact is that loops have also been drastically nerfed. Rendering some zones nearly worthless.
So to me, in order to introduce more “different” you also have to look at whether or not the opposing side has things that have also changed as a means of being able to have counterbility. I play PH and can understand why he comes with downsides, and I have seen people loop me (or try) as you mention (same boring looping mechanic) but guess what? That’s because that’s all they have. There is nothing new that has been introduced even in the new maps. With the exception of breakable walls... most of which are not interactive at all and are very killer sided.
You just cannot have different ideas implemented (as awesome as they might sound) if the other side will not be equipped to be able to counter said abilities in some fashion.
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I don't have a problem with proxy camping, but I think it is so amusing when people want to act like DS and Unbreakable are a problem, but suddenly Proxy Camping is 'ok'... because you used it to 'create pressure'.
When in fact all you were doing is allowing 3 gens to pop and someone to go into their final hook stage, which means you didn't create any pressure at all, you were simply trying to exploit a built-in mechanic.
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If I am a killer and two people dc at the start and I kill the other two, I am most definitely not saying gg out of good sportsmanship. I will collect my points and go.
That is one scenario where I would never say it because it's like saying "I knew I could win based on your circumstances in losing two players but I am still going to say good game to your face" when it was clearly a bad game for them since the start.
Generally I could care less about gg's but that is one time when people use it that I will never understand. It's like if the killer suddenly was unable to use their power and were forced to M1 only... I wouldn't say gg then either.
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@LetsPlayTogether said:
So you think you didnt tunnel? This explains a lot. DS isnt comparable to Pop just because there Was the same time limit. Oh wait lets buff any means necessary to 45s cause it has the same time limit.
Its the problem with this community in a nutshell. DS suddenly has a problem with its timer because another perk (which is entirely different) got theirs nerfed. Lmao
Even though the real discussion should be that we are still allowing Camping and Tunneling to remain as a meta built in mechanic (meaning it doesn’t cost you a perk or add on slot) and nothing is being done about that, so DS being available for 60 seconds is more than ok. If those two don’t change then DS should stay as is.
I don’t care how many Pop changes we see. The game isn’t balanced around perks that have nothing to do with each other.
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1667094#Comment_1667094
Yes,but they are still not compareable to dead hard.
All the other exhaustion perks only require me to walk a bit longer to catch.That can be annoying sure,but it's not that much of a big deal.
Dead hard however lets you recover from situations where the killer put in a lot of effort to get you in (like a carefully aimed shot by the huntress or deathslinger,a precise blink from the nurse,a regular mindgame etc.) very easily and it's exactly that which feels awful and pretty much unfair.
Just dodging a hit with dead hard (when the killer would have been able to wait out the dead hard) or using it to get another loop is just fine and pretty much the same like all the other exhaustion perks.
Yes bloodlust is more or less he same type of frustration,which should be looked at once all the maps and loops are balanced enough for that,but at the very least the killer wastes a huge amount of time to get that one hit.
Sprint burst doesn't let you dodge:
-bear Traps
-punishment of the damned
-shots from huntress or deathslinger
-shreds
-pigs ambush
-a blink from the nurse
-a lethal rush
You can also make plays with dead hard and borrowed time
Sprint burst however just makes it easier for you to get to the next loop near you without having to pay that much attention to your surrounding.
Right because if it did SB would be able to get immunity it would be broken as hell. Dead Hard doesn’t give enough distance to legitimately do anything aside from what it currently does. Hence why I said it is a close range exhaustion perk in a pervious comment.
Also, Sprint Burst does allow you do dodge even if you don’t have the immunity because your movement is faster. I have dodged hatchets and all the other powers you listed before.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1666049#Comment_1666049
You don't have to agree with my points, that's fine.
But I still don't see how "correcting a mistake" isn't valid in the argument at hand, since it's what a lot of Survivors use it for to extend chases. I've also debated that using it for distance to extend chases does not take any skill, if it really does not much.
You also can't avoid it all together by not swinging at certain scenarios, they just use it for distance at a safe pace which would've normally gotten them downed and they vault the window or drop the pallet. If they mess up the loop and almost get downed, than they can use it to correct that mistake by simply using DH to make up for the lost distance.
The perk itself is fair in certain scenarios, but it others I don't see it to be fair. Yes in a deadzone it's basically useless, but at certain long loops it can be a nightmare, especially when most Survivors who run it just use it for distance now.
But again, we don't need to see eye to eye on this.
Extending the chase is the purpose of the perk otherwise what is it suppose to do?
I get that you don’t like the perk but it is not as strong or unfair as people think. Not when you can do much more with other perks. At close range this perk shines, at longer range other perks are far better.
If you are whiffing a lot because you can’t bait it out, that’s on you. That’s like saying that just because you whiff at window fake techs it must be broken and survivors shouldn’t be able to keep sliding against the wall.
I’ve had so many people try to use DH mid 360 and fail miserably. It’s really not hard to bait out. Especially when they have nowhere else to go.
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1666899#Comment_1666899
You can't compare Dead Hard to the other exhaustion perks at all.
My problem is that you could have made a really good play as killer (like a n awesome hatchet throw,a good curve as billy or a perfectly executed lethal rush as blight) that took a lot of effort to pull off on the killer side but very little effort on the survivor side.
Which is why i don't have any problems with the other exhaustion perks,because they simply aren't as strong as Dead Hard.
Also,you can dodge an Oni hit.It's not easy,sure,but that's how it supposed to be and there are many videos/streams i've seen where people manage to dodge it.
Again. I gave you examples of where a survivor can get away via an exhaustion perk even tho you were technically “dead”.
You talk about specific scenarios where by makes killers more vulnerable... well what about when bloodlust kicks in because you refuse to break a pallet? How is that fair? No type of skilled mind-game can avoid that hit.
Like, you literally had to come up with specific scenarios in order to prove your point. Dead Hard is weak in comparison to other perks like SB. Because SB can get you out of more situations where DH couldn’t.
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1666049#Comment_1666049
Holding your sprint burst requires you to waste quite a lot of time.
Not every area you are right now has places to use lithe or BL.
Nobody really cares that it's a chase extender (which is every exhaustion perk anyway).
The annoying and kind of unfair thing about dead hard is that you can erase great plays by the killer that weren't easy to do by a simple push of a button.
Imagine you made a great play as survivor and pretty much outplayed the killer but now he has perk that would give him the hit anyway.It would feel pretty unfair right?
"The annoying and kind of unfair thing about dead hard is that you can erase great plays by the killer that weren't easy to do by a simple push of a button."
This can literally be said about every exhaust perk. You don't have a pallet but you have a window? You can get away with Lithe. Don't have either but your SB is 99'd? You can go to an area that does.
You can deny that it isn't about extending a chase, but that is exactly what it is about. If you are competent enough you can bait DH out.
Oh and about a killer being able to hit you anyway... you mean kind of how you can't dodge an Oni hit?