Interrupt_Vector
Interrupt_Vector
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875492#Comment_3875492
That a SWF tanks their MMR just to annoy low-MMR/new Killers, which will just lead to them being banned. Yes, I think this is fabricated. Unlike extensive slugging, this happens quite frequently.
How will you ban them? For what? Having a streak of bad games? Good luck with that, they barely ban cheaters, let alone read whiny report tickets. They probably get thousands daily. Who will even report them? The killer with 20 hours game time that doesn't understand what is even happening?
SoloQ MMR is already eff'd. Every now and then I get exactly that type of killer. I've had killers that could't catch me at a cowtree longwall gym combo for the entire game.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875484#Comment_3875484
Sure, if you want to fabricate a situation to have an argument. Go for it. Realistically… This will not happen.
What do you mean realistically this will not happen? Take a 110% Killer that has no clue how to use his power yet and respects pallets. It's over, I'll get 10 rounds on a godrock without throwing a single pallet, get respect one time and it's 5 more rounds, get slapped and swap the player while you heal. Or you know, just use a syringe or styptic.
What about this scenario is fabricated to you?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875476#Comment_3875476
The thing is, Killer behavior has way more impact than Survivor behavior. A Survivor cannot really do the same as a Killer. The "best" the Survivors can do which compares to slugging until bleedout is to wait at the Exit Gates. But the Killer can do something against it.
Everything else is just nothing which impacts the Killer that much. The Killer on the other hand can take away the possibility for the Survivors to play the game - either by slugging them or, if they dont care about being banned, by bodyblocking. The Survivor cannot do that.
Killer Toxicity is just more impactful.
So what if I just swf up with some good survivors, tank my mmr and just never open the exit gates while running the killer around objects he doesn't yet know how to run correctly? You can easily do this for an hour without him catching you. There's no way for him to end the game except DC.
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Brother, who is supposed to read this.
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@Alicia_Tried6041 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875385#Comment_3875385
Oh look the standard get better comeback from a killer main who never played survivor in his life. Magic hand needs nerfed to where it slows him down if he lifts a pallet. Right now its incredibly broken. All survivors have is pallets.
No, he's right. Some of ya'll just do it to yourselves and there is unfortunately nothing and no one that can help you. I've seen it with my own eyes, over and over again.
That babymeg that predrops every pallet. There are no mindgames, just taking a hit and still dropping that pallet. The only time a pallet isn't dropped immediately is when they camp it while self caring so that anyone who might need it gets conveniently bodyblocked. It's that meg that stands in between you and that bubba that is facamping you so that the Anti-Facecamp Bar does not fill up, costing you a hookstate. It's that meg that tries to heal you at the start of the game even tho you are running No Mither.
There's thousands of this meg out there. They all do it to themselves. Nothing but food for the Entity.
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I will just coin the #DoingMyPart tag.
Since BHVR doesn't see a problem with it I will 4-man-slug every lobby and let them bleed out on the ground.
They will get afk crows or DC right away to eat a penalty.
This is in no shape or form toxic or problematic since it's 100% an intended feature, all I am doing is playing smart while using the tools that were given to me. Just imagine all those kids buying DBD because of the FNAF chapter. All of those poor, innocent souls…
On that note, can we get a Charm that depicts a slug? I want that hanging from my hooks, will pay 15$ for it, thanks.
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I just ran No Mither, Plot Twist, Flip Flop and Power Struggle vs a Clown on Badham
At the start I slugged myself within the first second of the game. Once the guy found me under a pallet I made him eat it, ran away and Plot Twisted again only to 99% Bleedout timer. I then looped the guy for 4 gens before he gave up and killed everyone else. At the end I gave him 5 rounds around the tiniest pile of trash I could find only to instantly die the second I get hit.
Absolutely worth it.
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That's just me. Top level gameplay. Always.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875150#Comment_3875150
How do you define tunneling?
- Directly off the hook
- After unhook, found working on a gen/ healing with another survivor(s) and the killer goes after you.
- Hooked twice in a row regardless of time.
The killer looked into his general direction and only because the killer was wiping cheeto dust off of his Glorious Model 0 wireless gaming mouse it appeared to the survivor as if the killer was nodding. Very toxic behavior.
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I just played a match as Bubba with Knock Out / Third Seal where I slugged everyone quickly and let them all bleed out for the full duration only to mori the last guy. It's ok tho they brought the map offering.
Amazing gameplay. I don't think that is problematic at all. Finally I can kick back and relax as a killer. I can just leave and make some coffee and when I'm back they are all dead. BHVR doesn't think that this is problematic either.
See you in the fog!
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It's 8 pages of valuable content. Deep insights into the human psyche and the underbelly that the dbd community is.
Entertaining as well.
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@TwinsMain2004 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874606#Comment_3874606
killer has 4 perks
yall have 12 total
Calculated nonsense
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Bubba - Iron Grasp, Agitation, Enduring, NoED
Huntress - Friends till the end, Furtive Chase, Deadlock, Grim Embrace
Survivor - No Mither, Plot Twist, Scene Partner, Tenacity / Champion of Light, Finesse, Windows of Opportunity, Open Handed / Fixated, Lightweight, Light-Footed, Finesse
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@GentlemanFridge said:
I’ve stated this before, but I find baffling how hypocritical this system is.
People swear in the tomes. There’s no slurs in those, obviously, but guano regularly appears.
I find it hilarious that I cannot use the word Kill in a game that is about killing and getting killed.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
8 Pages of this garbage.
Everyone on both sides, hows this: We all want to play the game to have fun. (If you don't want to have fun, then I'm at a loss.)
Why is it this difficult to do so? Seriously, we're on a forum arguing over a game. A game shouldn't be difficult to enjoy. Add humans and suddenly its quite difficult. I just don't understand why everyone is at each other.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875150#Comment_3875150
Was this all in one day?
I just don't understand why everyone is at each other.
For sports.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N26N7lQHNW8 -
@FMG15 said:
It#s a common occurence in this mode. When I play survivor I get sweaty killers, when I play killer I see people bringing stacked items and strong map offerings.
People are overrelying on their perks and in this event it shows. Since add-ons, items and offerings aren't random, people are compensating the lack of perk strength with those instead and play as tryhard as possible. BHVR should make everything random, maybe even the survivors and killers. That would be so much more funPeople are overrelying on their perks
Always have been. I play most of my time without and still beat groups that believe perks are going to save them. Same for both sides. So chaos shuffle does nothing for me. People really should try learning this game without perks at some point.
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@TieBreaker said:
Listening to him say that limiting killer agency will kill the game, whilst he's playing slug only, made me cringe somewhat.
I watched his stream yesterday and it's so painful to watch.
Like I get it, he wants to "win". Not even he sounds like he's having fun. He's not even a good player either so it makes the whining somewhat funny.
"Oh I have to slug her here otherwise <insert giga OP perk here>", no brother you are playing a generic anti-loop killer on a semi decent level at best.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874767#Comment_3874767
We do, there are people on the other end of the game you are playing, if you aren't socially playing games by any means why are you playing multiplayer games? LOL Are you that selfish?
Like really your opinion is literally "You're not allowed one", that's not how a discussion works. People are entitled to opinions whether you like it or not :> Like what does playing this hateful get for the killer playing? Nothing, it's encouragement to treat others bitterly and it's not healthy for anyone playing.
I'm sorry you think your point of silencing others is worth any salt. But it's not lol Just say you like playing this way and move on, or say you disagree and move on.there are people on the other end of the game
While I see why you would want to lead with that as a strong point, it is simultaneously the weak point of your argument.
Out of those 5 people in any given random public match you'll very likely get differing opinions on whatever strategy or perk.
When I play killer I treat every survivor roughly the way I would treat myself when I was the survivor in that position. It's very rare in my lobbies to have 3 people on the ground at once without them literally doing it to themselves (Running right in front of me for absolutely no reason or step in my trappers traps).
In this case I consider that a learning experience and if you are unwilling to learn how to play the game then you will inevitably suffer from your own ignorance.
What I do have to say though is that I play the game with the objective of having fun. If I get a survivor in my lobby that manages to run me for 5 gens then I will absolutely chase you for 5 gens. Take those gens please, I want that chase because that is the most fun part about this game to me. The gens, just like the hooks are nothing but a means to end the match, a handle for each side to pull to progress things towards an end. I want what is happening in between that. As a survivor I often found myself dying to the endgame collapse because the chase with the killer was just that fun.
Maybe he can think that I'm toxic. I'm sorry for having fun, I guess.
The most impressive thing that you can encounter in this game is a great survivor player, that guy who who just can't catch. That's my opinion.
What I have yet to find out is how slugging is any different from hanging from a hook? Somebody still has to come and save you. There's still the same amount of players on the map. All that is happening is that Perk procs are denied, as if that never happens outside of this issue. The slug can even move around, something you can't do on a hook. What you CAN'T do is end your participation in the match prematurely by quitting on hook. I wonder if this debate would die down if we gave the survivors the possibility to bleed out quicker.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874572#Comment_3874572
This is how you know SBMM isn't fully functioning during events lol I havent seen one of these Bubbas in a loooong time
I play as one every now and then. Just to keep the tradition alive.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874628#Comment_3874628
I find the charm wears off when this kind of thing is done ad nauseam.
Can I group with you? I want more facecamping bubbas in my games.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874581#Comment_3874581
I don’t think it’s hilarious or adorable.
Call me jaded, but I think it’s old and tired, and drives people away from the game. Why boot up DbD in the limited spare time you have when there’s a decent chance this is what you’ll encounter?
idk, there's just something about a facecamping bubba that makes me smile. I don't see them too often anymore, sadly.
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@ChaoticCoconut said:
Oh no.. I cant teleport directly to a generator, whatever shall I dooooo
You have no idea how Sadako's power works, do you?
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
These people really have the trolling down to a tee don't they? Pick Leatherface, get a hook, and just plant yourself 16 m away for 140 seconds.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/5KV2HKFTPLAV/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/C1QPE6ACTTES/image.png
DbD events truly bring out the best in people.
Come on, that's hilarious.
Look at him, he's adorable.
I recently had a game where I looped a bubba on gashaven only for a body blocking meg do ruin a really goofy 10 minute chase.
I went into spectator mode and prayed for bubba to kill em all. He killed them all and even moried that exact meg. Best game in months.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
My queues on either side are kinda long right now. Easily double that of the normal queue. Was watching a streamer earlier today and they commented that the queues feel bad too.
Don't get me wrong, they're nothing like 2v8 levels of bad. But it's noticeable and I'm left wondering why?
I only played until I had all the challenges done, will play again when the next one unlocks but that's about it for me.
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Give survivors skillchecks while they are slugged. Problem solved.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874045#Comment_3874045
Because MMR scores a bleedout as a kill. It just does. Each trial is four 1v1s. The system doesn't care how someone dies. A gate escape is a survivor win. A hatch is a draw. And a sacrifice/bleedout is a killer win. The system would be even more of a mess if killers could essentially smurf by circumventing MMR gains.
Each trial is four 1v1
Which is nonsensical at a level I cannot even start to comprehend.
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@TonTon said:
Dbd posted on the official twitter revealing Bot Fill has been added to drastically reduce Queue times on PTB.
In lobbies is a default clothing anon mode survivor but when loaded in the match reveals a bot tag on the survivor.
Most likely this will be added to Live and event gamemodes like 2v8 to help reduce the extremely long queue times.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CZPUS3UZR0N0/screenshot-2025-01-10-20-25-31-7e2.png
Yesterday I've had a very weird game in public soloQ where I was facing a knight who almost definitely was a bot.
The entire time going against him something felt off and mentioning that in the endgame chat confirmed that I was not the only one who felt that way. He used his power almost exclusively to check if generators were worked on, he never mindgamed anything and always went for the shortest path, he swung every single time I was technically in range –– around tight corners on low walls or what really gave it away for me was that swing he did at the long door at shack when you go for the window while he is still outside hugging that wall. This is the exact and reproducible behavior that the Trapper bot has in the "Survive with Bots" Tutorial.
That knight was more sophisticated but the entire time I had the exact same feeling I had when going against that Trapper bot, and I did that a lot just for fun and experimentation.
I remember like 2 years ago or so where there were afk bots farming exp and iri shards by just standing still and swinging, I have never seen a bot like this in soloQ before. Is this a known thing?
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@Mr_K said:
If it wasn't for the glow around the icon I would never known.
Brother, what?
I kept wondering what happened to those rewards, thought it was just a thing over the holidays.
I don't know which one is funnier. The pretty lackluster 2 year old stats they sent out or this.
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Always a good idea to keep in mind that there might be region differences, so you might want to mention for what region you are searching. Otherwise there might be latency issues.
I shot you a friend request and we'll see. I'm in EU region.
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@Shaddoll_Serpent said:
It's the one where you have to down survivors 20 times with hatchets further than 24m from you, and I'm struggling greatly to even get a single one. It probably just comes down to practice, but does anyone have any advice for getting these far range snipes as Huntress? Please help a homie out. Even basic advice would be appreciated.
What region are you? If you want we can hop on a custom match and you can snipe me. Shoot me a PM if you're interested!
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You can just walk up to her and make her hook you if you are so desperate to move on from this experience.
Can some games be annoying and less entertaining than others? Yeah sure, same as in every other game. Just force the next best exit from the match.
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@TieBreaker said:
It's not holding the game hostage. It's just a player using the tools that BHVR has given them. It's obviously a miserable experiences for the survivors, and the Huntress is aware of that. But it's part of a gameplay loop that BHVR includes. So it's acceptable.
Maybe it's not miserable to the huntress at all and that player just likes throwing hatchets? Maybe he's practicing shots because he wants to play more huntress. I'd say if she just stands there and throws hatchets, she's probably chill af. I've done that and a lot of survivors catch on, then they do goofy things like popping in and out of obstacles in a distance I want to practice.
To me it's amazing when a survivor plays along with this and I often end up letting them go. If they are boring and just hide I kill them for the sake of the survivors who at least either play along or do gens.
As a huntress player who does this, there is no malicious intend at all. I'm just throwing hatchets because I enjoy the process of getting those really good shots. I get bloodpoints, you get bloodpoints, maybe we even end up adding each other on steam.
Why always assume the worst in others? To me all of these things just add to the unique nature of Dead by Daylight public matches.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
So I was playing Chaos Shuffle and the Killer (Huntress) burns a Damaged Photo (Offering) to send us to Mount Ormond. They were using the Wooden Fox add-on to be perma-Undetectable for most of the game.
The entire game they do nothing by protect a 3-Gen set-up near the Main Building and the Generator spread is so tight that you practically dont have time to get any repair progress unless you are willing to dodge Hatchets. 2 of the Generators are located in Deadzones as well, so working on them in insanely risky.
One of our teammates realizes that they are protecting the 3-Gen set-up, runs into the Killer intentionally, gets hooked, and gives up on hook. So we are forced to deal with a 3v1 against a 3-Gen Huntress.
This Huntress, btw, would not dedicate to any form of chase, they would drop chase to go and check on the Generators and 95% of their time was spent on a balcony overseeing all the Generators and would only occasionally jump off to pressure a Generator if it got above 20% progress.
THIS GAME LASTED 30-MINUTES BEFORE ANOTHER SURVIVOR WAS KILLED.
And it was the result of a teammate giving up, pushing us into a 2v1, an easily winnable position from the Huntress, they can just dedicate to a chase and be fine, and guess what… she STILL wont leave the 3-Gen set-up.
At this point, I was considering on just running into the Huntress because this game had been a massive waste of time since it is abundantly clear that the Huntress does not care about actually chasing or downing Survivor and just wants to guard the 3-Gen for as long as possible.
Keep in mind as well that the other Survivor was not repairing Generators, they were too afraid to enter the 3-Gen. I was the only Survivor actively pushing the Objective forwards and trying to progress the game, but because it is my progress versus the Huntress's regression, I cant really make any meaningful progress. I do have Deja Vu to get an extra repair bonus but it is meaningless.
Eventually, around the 40-minute mark, they actually dedicate to a chase and down my teammate.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZFWIA3VU8LWT/screenshot-from-2025-01-19-11-55-52.png
THEY ARE NOW SLUGGING MY TEAMMATE TO GET A 4K. THEY ARE STILL PROTECTING THE 3-GEN. AND IT IS 40-MINUTES INTO A GAME.
Screenshot was taken because I had to take a really round-a-bout way to pick them up, which means going the opposite direction from the Generator I was repairing. Since they are perma-Undetectable from Wooden Fox, the most information youll get is the Haze instead of the Heart Beat.
The Killer did eventually kill all of us, but the game lasted 40-50 minutes, but it easily could have been shorter had the Huntress left the 3-Gen to dedicate to chases.
Would this be considered "taking the game hostage"?
I don't see that as holding anyone hostage. Just do the gen. There is a kick limit that prevents the killer from doing exactly that.
This huntress could've come to the forums here and asked if the Survivors are the ones holding the game hostage since they weren't doing gens like they were supposed to.
Back in my day, taking a game hostage meant something. Nowadays, every game seems to be a hostage situation.
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@Nocturnum said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873760#Comment_3873760
Why do I have to prove anything to you, a random stranger? You are taking things in bad faith if you need me to literally show you where I live. You are assuming things from the start. That's why we can't have a proper discussion with you.
And no, you aren't trying to understand anyone if you keep dismissing their experiences with "Well, it never happened to me so it must not be as bad as you say it is". That's like if I had a friend next door tell me they were being stalked in our area and my response was "It hasn't happened to me here, so it doesn't sound like a problem"
You are ignoring the experiences of other people.
That's why I mentioned before that you need to try and put yourself in others shoes—I sincerely mean that.
I'm not even trying to say this in a rude way, but none of us can actually really talk to you with the way you assume things. The discussion is already over before it began.You still refuse my invitation to see it my way even tho I kindly asked you to at least try. I am not even sure that you read my posts at this point. I wish you the best of luck with whatever you're doing here. But you and I aren't going to find it anytime soon.
Why do I have to prove anything to you, a random stranger?
Don't do it for me, do it for BHVR. They are the devs, not me. I'm just here checking out what people are talking about and give me opinion on it. I really love the game and some people here are quite frankly legit amazing personalities. I've made friends through this game.
if you need me to literally show you where I live
This is just… what?
@BorisDDAA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873789#Comment_3873789
"Maybe the match was stressing him out"
"I play hostage Doctor"
"It's just a game"
Wall of text
Wall of text
Nobody drops em like I do, baby. Like Babymegs on Badham.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873760#Comment_3873760
other than the terrible package loss issues
You're getting this too? It's been driving me up the wall lol
At this point the only real bullying I experience is this package loss. When I play huntress I hit survivors with a hatchet, they scream like I hit them but they don't lose a health state. As survivor I sometimes teleport from one end of a Pallet Gym to the other. I always think I must look really goofy on the other guys screen, meanwhile I get absolutely scammed. Ruined many moments that could've ended really well.
EDIT: Just now I got disconnected from an active match. The server just stopped responding and closed the lobby. I am already at a 15 minute lockout due to this happening more often lately. It is verifiable not my connection since any connection tests that do not involve DBD are free from such issues.
This is easily my least favorite thing about DBD these days.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
Anddddd here we go again! Some screenshots of the match I just played.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/96YJK5C2RWNI/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/S7TJ7SEISBGT/image.png
As you can see, Pinhead decided to slug from the onset of the match. And before you say, "But you're running Breakout! You forced him to slug." No I didn't. It's Chaos Shuffle and I didn't attempt to do any sabo antics, nor was I near my other teammates when they got downed to attempt to use Break Out (which you can see above).
The only person who Pinhead didn't slug was the Kate who rolled No Mither. He ended up getting Kate out the match with 3 gens remaining after which we were basically just trading who was on the ground while trying to crank the generators in any spare time we had. We got down to 1 generator left but unfortunately Meg bled out so it was down to just me and Alan. Alan managed to put up an AMAZING chase (props to him) and I popped the final gen. He went down a couple seconds after I popped it and Pinhead beelined straight to me and there wasn't much I could really do.
So I go down and instead of just hooking me and ending it, Pinhead decides to stand over me swinging and launching his chains at me right up until I'm 1 second away from bleeding me out. At which point he picks me up, hooks me, and proceeds to hit me on hook.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SJN49ZDXYNV8/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/74DAFW6YAW5W/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/IXK9GV4YBFDR/image.png
And that's EXACTLY how I know this isn't just about "playing to win", "playing strategically", "being competitive" or however you want to spin it. We're both on the ground with hooks readily available. It's not about the fact that we lost. That's fine. We might've gotten at least 1 person out if I played better. I can accept that. The problem is that instead of just taking the win, these people feel the need to drag it out as long as possible and rub it in the whole while. It's malicious behaviour that needs to be addressed.
Alright first of all thank you for the effort, I do appreciate it.
I will now simply narrate what I think about your points and maybe then you can see how I see it.
The first two images tell me you are playing on a Badham Preschool map. Amazing map for survivors, arguably one of my favorite Realms for both roles. Just a personal. There are many, many tiles and resources for survivors to waste tons of time against a Pinhead with little to no effort if you don't make any major mistakes like running into walls, running into a deadzone, giving away free hits. My personal recommendation is to hold W and book it whenever he wants to get tricky with his chain. It is really difficult to aim it and this map in particular is very difficult for him if he is not a decent Pinhead player.
Only looking at the first two images right now, there is obviously some time in between those two points, depending on conditions maybe 2 - 5 minutes, impossible to tell so this is just a guess. In that time a generator got finished while he was probably searching for the third survivor to down. Seeing that the Kate is reviving you and the Alan got injured in the meantime I assume that you got downed in Main, he left you for reasons I can only speculate about, downed Player 3 and went on to find the next player. At that point you were crawling out of Main and got saved by Kate while Alan finished a generator, which probably got the Killer a hit.
The Kate already has a hook state and seeing that the map is generally considered Survivor favored, since it is rich in resources, coupled with the fact that Pinhead is basically an M1 killer with a really difficult to control Power for many players (especially controller users) I can see that he probably tried to do the best he can to get Kate out, he just couldn't find her while accepting any and all free hits that were presented to him. In your second screenshots I see Pallets that aren't terribly weak if used well so in order for him to build effective pressure is to get one guy out.
Slugging you isn't really doing him any favors as there is very little difference to you spending your time on the ground or on the hook. In fact you still got 2 entire hook states you can work in your favor. So after getting a full heal from Kate, Kate should go work on a gen while you work on resetting Player 3. The gameplay is the same thing. Except when you are down you can actually still move around, recover and get picked up really fast. It takes longer to bleed you out then to just hardcore tunnel you out, even with crutch perks.
with 3 gens remaining after which we were basically just trading who was on the ground while trying to crank the generators
Yeah this is how it goes, but you actually managed to trade you way to 0 gens and that isn't even bad at all. You almost escaped.
So I go down and instead of just hooking me and ending it, Pinhead decides to stand over me swinging and launching his chains at me right up until I'm 1 second away from bleeding me out. At which point he picks me up, hooks me, and proceeds to hit me on hook.
Alright yeah that can reasonably be perceived as BM. If it was somehow provoked, I don't know since we only have hand picked screenshots. Maybe the match was stressing him out, maybe he perceived something you or someone else did as BM, maybe he's a genuinely bad person, maybe he is a hardcore Hellraiser fan and wants to role play lore accurate Pinhead.
these people feel the need to drag it out as long as possible and rub it in the whole while
Yeah they really do, absolutely. I'm the last guy to deny that there are people out there that actively use this game as a bully simulator. And trust me they get bullied themselves too, just in lobbies that you're not in so you don't see it happen. Believe me I've seen all of these things happen. Damn I did them myself just for the fun of it.
Hostage Doctor is by far my favorite method to show newer players just how bad things can get. When I play a hostage doctor you'll beg to get slugged so you can at least bleed out. The bleedout timer is much, much shorter than the maximum match duration. I tried it.
I won't hit you, you will not get insured for the entire match. But every second you do not spend in Madness 3 you'll get maximum difficulty skillchecks that just keep getting worse and worse. Go ahead, do your gens and you are free to leave.
Hilariously free win for anyone who just hits the skillchecks. This has been way more effective in the past and this too got addressed by BHVR in a sensible manner by adding a kick limit to Generators.
Alright so what I am going to need is somehow proof that every game of yours is like this, filled with people who just slug and BM.
How common is this really because this happens very rarely to me and if it does I just laugh about it. It's just a game.
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@Nocturnum said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873708#Comment_3873708
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873727#Comment_3873727
Pretty sure it's because you keep taking everything they and others have said to you in bad faith.
I'm in NA I I've continued to see bad behavior in this event and outside of it lately. So have many others. No one wants the game to be in this state where it's easy for someone to continually grief and prevent others from participating in play.You keep failing to see anything from our perspective and frankly, it seems quite useless to talk to you about any of it. As rude as that sounds.
When you keep saying how "this community is making up stories" and "whining and complaining" etc. I hate to say, it makes you sound arrogant and unwilling to be understanding of others. Why would we want to keep discussing things with you if it feels like you aren't listening?Pages in and you keep dismissing our concerns and experiences of the game. We've said our piece multiple times yet you refuse to accept it.
Pretty sure it's because you keep taking everything they and others have said to you in bad faith.
I am absolutely not. Quite the opposite, I am trying to understand the situation. I'm not here to "have faith" in whatever story you just happen to tell me. How can I tell that you are not trolling me? I am not saying you are, but you could be. So I give you the opportunity to help me understand what's going on.
I'm in NA I I've continued to see bad behavior
Don't tell, show me, I've never seen any evidence of it. I am not trolling you when I tell you that I do not experience any of those problems you mention. Is there 1 in 50 games that really bad? Yeah sure man it's soloQ what do you expect. It seems that you experience not 1 in 50 but what… 45 in 50? More? I cannot believe you because this claim seems ridiculously exaggerated to me because of the vast difference in experience.
So have many others
No one wants the game to be in this state
I don't want the game to be in a bad state. I don't believe that it is, other than the terrible package loss issues and several other lackluster things we could argue about forever…
Yesterday I loaded into Rotten Fields on my P0 Quentin, no perks, no items. Just me in my first match of the day and what do I get? Clown it was, and I gotta say I have my reservations going against this Killer, it is generally an uncomfortable experience to me personally. Which is amazing, that is really great character design because this is exactly what it is supposed to feel like.
To cut a long story short I managed to loop the Killer for 3 gens, everyone got out since at the end the Clown DC'd. We had an amazing chat at the end, added eachother as steam friends and played several public and custom matches together.
So not only is my experience in Dead by Daylight not bad, but it's average at worst and incredibly amazing and rewarding at its best.
If I approach the game with the mindset of "I'm going to get mistreated again" then oh boy I believe that that can lead to a great variety of miserable experiences.
You keep failing to see anything from our perspective
How do you think would I magically be able so see from your perspective? Let us for an exercise try and have you see things from my perspective, do you agree to at least try it?
When you keep saying how "this community is making up stories" and "whining and complaining" etc. I hate to say, it makes you sound arrogant and unwilling to be understanding of others. Why would we want to keep discussing things with you if it feels like you aren't listening?
That is valid criticism that I will address by explaining that "this community" i.e. the particular individuals who come here to read or discuss, has among it people who are reporting experiences that I find hard to believe since my experience is so vastly different. I want to understand, please help me to do so is all I can say.
What I cannot do is having faith in anything you tell me. This is the soapbox I talked about in my previous post. I'm not here to join a religion. If there is a problem, show us.
Pages in and you keep dismissing our concerns and experiences of the game.
I am asking for evidence beyond hearsay.
If there are so many people here doing upvotes and whatnot, is there one of you who can deliver anything that could reasonably be considered substantial evidence to this? I am patient, I've got time. One month, two months, just send me a PM on this forum and we do it in private if you do not wish to do it here.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873708#Comment_3873708
If you manage to prove this to me in such a way that it is absolutely crystal clear that this is all your DBD experience is and there is nothing at all you can do about it then I am open to believe you at once.
irdc if you believe me or not. View my previous comment for my final thoughts on the matter.
Well if you don't care then what are you trying to achieve here? Isn't that somewhat the equivalent of standing on a soapbox?
If you don't really care to prove to me that against statistical odds you have this experience then there is like I said, nothing that I can do. I am not sure how this is meant to help anybody or improve anything, other than maybe serving for your own entertainment I suppose.
But you see how this might look? If you believe that you somehow beat the odds and are trapped in some sort of ELO hell then you gotta contact BHVR Support. At this point, all this discussion does is exacerbate an overall uncomfortable atmosphere that serves no purpose, since there is no clear definition of certain key factors, unsubstantiated statements and a lack of care on your part.
I'm really trying to see your point here, I hope you know this.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873651#Comment_3873651
The discussion is whether or not a killer slugging 4 survivors, when it's 100% being done for the sake of winning the game, is acceptable or not.
Because there's absolutely no situation where this is necessary to win in 2025 DbD. Hooks respawn now. There's no need to bleed everyone out for 4 minutes from the onset of the match. People who go into every match to do this are trolls. Period.
And I'm not going to try and convince you any further. To be frank, I don't think I need to. The overwhelming majority of the playerbase (rightly) recognise this as malicious behaviour and it's clear the devs have cottoned on to it too (given they attempted to implement a solution on a previous PTB and are asking about it in feedback surveys). I'm 99.9% sure this behaviour is already on the chopping block and will be addressed in the near future. And when it does, I assure you the kill rates aren't going to change because no one is legitemately doing this as a strategy to win, and instad are just doing it to prolong already-won matches 👍
Because there's absolutely no situation where this is necessary to win in 2025 DbD.
Depends on what you mean by 'necessary' and 'win'.
Since 2019 I have personally had very few soloQ matches where a 4 man slug was executed to win, and those were hooked, the game was finished. I was new back then, like many were. Even rarer were those games that I personally would categorize as griefing, namely those where this 4 man slug lead to us bleeding out for the sake of it. Very, very few in my countless matches. Maybe 15,… 20 of those thousands over 6 years.
I quickly learned that for a 4 man slug to occur precisely 2 factors must be present.
A) The killer wants to employ this strategy (for whatever reason)
B) The survivors give him the opportunity
A killer can't just suddenly create this Gamestate without any substantial effort OR substantial misplay by the survivor team.
4 megs on a gen in a tight indoor map with an undetectable Bubba… You would do it, admit it. That is the game, you messed up and the entity punishes you for it. Guess what, I laugh about myself, about this situation. I can still hear Bubba's cute noises he makes when he sweeps or throws a tantum while the entity takes me away to my next trial. I won, that was silly and fun.
But all of that is probably meaningless to you. Maybe you wouldn't be that Bubba. In that case I am sorry, while there are still chill and memey lobbies out there, you really cannot reasonably expect them to be anywhere regular. In this case I would suggest looking for a community of like minded people, on discord for example and arrange custom matches. I'm serious, try it it's fun.
The overwhelming majority of the playerbase (rightly) recognise this as malicious behaviour
What does this mean? That the overwhelming majority recognizes this and does not partake in it?
Or does the overwhelming majority recognize it and some of that percentage actively do it? If so then give me your best guesstimate.
In case this overwhelming majority is against it, then it is statistically unlikely that this occurring anywhere near as often to you personally as it seems to me you're making it out to be. And that is congruent with my experience. It's there, yeah sure I give you that.
If you still insist on claiming that this is happening all the time to you then I fear that we are at an impasse unless you are willing to deliver hard evidence in form of handing over a continuous recording of your play sessions or even stream them.
If you manage to prove this to me in such a way that it is absolutely crystal clear that this is all your DBD experience is and there is nothing at all you can do about it then I am open to believe you at once.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
I’m gonna tackle this question looking at both sides of the playerbase. So I had game as survivor where we got destroyed quick after someone gave up. It was against a well know streamer and I went back to look at the playback and the player said “let’s see these unique builds. Unique build #1 and unique build #2”. He was talking about the Steve and yui. When he looked at mine he said it was “semi unique” I was the Claire btw.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/V55CVXB9B7PM/img-9628.jpeg
I have also seen survivors, streamers and players I have played with in a swf complain about any perk the killer brings. For example, we load into the game “omg the killer has corrupt” or “omg the killer has pain res”. There are other perks that both sides complain about and those eventually get nerfed like ultimate weapon.
But I have to ask what builds or perks does this community approve their opponents of using. I don’t sit there and use 4 meta perks when I play survivor or killer because I find that boring and because the other side always complains about that.
Good stuff. He was clearly pulling a fast one on you.
I personally don't care about Perks unless they catch me by surprise, they are used in an impressive way or I am trying out new perk combinations to add a particular variation to the fundamental gameplay.
A meg that can barely make a round on shack vs an M1 killer doesn't impress me when she immediately takes off with lithe. I got hooks all over the place, be picky, it's your freedom to choose where you'll hang out and think about the consequences of your actions. Maybe some other target decides to bump itself up the ladder of priority for whatever reason and she lives to lithe another day.
If you're that guy who can squeeze a couple of rounds out of a pallet I'm all ears. And if that same guy hits me with the pallet stun and takes off with "Smash Hit" then so be it. I probably deserved it. Then, and only then is a slowdown build a pretty convenient thing. It evens out the playing field in that regard. Other than that, rather gimmicky. Unnecessary even.
When I play survivor and the killer plays on the all too common slowdown I'll find a way to deal with that. It prolongs the game for everybody and maybe he really needs that. Maybe I can show him how he can't catch me if he doesn't know his fundamentals, maybe he knows his fundamentals and I get to learn a thing from him. Maybe I just get hit by NoED. Stuff happens.
I generally play without perks. Perks can only get you that far if that is all that you rely on. If you're a good player then they can make a huge difference. My matches on both sides are quite varied, thank god.
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@ChuckingWong said:
What a wonderful time to end my game on a weekend then to deal with some 10 year old that wants to make everyone elses experience in the game a waste of time.
BHVR fix your game already. Slugging should not even be a playstyle, much less have a perk revolve around it.That's just some bad luck man, sorry your last game went like that. Roll the dice again at your discretion.
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872744#Comment_3872744
I agree it's a crappy way to play during an event, but frankly, I don't think that's actually the case that everyone thinks ONLY Killers are sweaty this event, and I strongly believe we have an upvote bot or vote-buffing issue on these forums - that is, people being banned, making new accounts, and then getting access back to old accounts and logging in to vote the posts up on their current one. Not even 30+ people are participating in this thread, so how are some people getting 30+ upvotes for posts that amount to "Killer/Survivor bad"?
It's pretty clear too that all the upvotes given are angry ones done to hyper-boost the more one-sided and angry responses. Because it surely IS NOT just Killers behaving this way - this is provable, and it can easily be proven by anyone going in with a mid to lower tier Killer and having to face Survivors that bring strong items every round in the mode who then do things like teabag at the gates while refusing to leave. It's really everyone behaving this way; pinning it on one side only is immature at worst and very woefully unbalanced of a take at best.That, and you simply cannot and should not tell the quality of a post by its upvotes; I see plenty of people here very calmly and rationally pointing out that EVERYONE is being jerks in the event queue getting nothing or few upvotes, while many people who are being one-sided or us vs. them are getting lots of upvotes. The anger drowns out rational thought so no real discussion can occur outside of a popularity contest.
This is how groupthink works.
You raise some good points here that I will definitely into consideration, I also agree with you on several parts here.
I've seen 'em all, from the absolute toxic games where the endgame lobby devolves into name calling, confirming that actions previously during the match were both inflicted with ill intend and perceived in bad faith.
The survivor is in the following predicament→ "I am in a bad mood therefore the killer is tunneling"
The killer →"This cocky survivor is probably running META builds, I saw him TBag me when he got that pallet stun and now they unhook in my face"
On the other hand I have had games that were absolutely wonderful where everyone had fun, we talked in the engame chat, signed our steam profiles, maybe even added friends and played custom matches. Absolutely amazing moments where I made friends with people far beyond Dead by Daylight. Because I allow them to happen. I allow the other guy to be good. To outplay me. I invite you to. Teach me how to beat you.
A good fraction of players are very emotionally invested when it comes to Perks, Strategies and general ingame behavior (tbagging, excessive flashlight to the face at every pallet, hitting survivors on hook, nodding). Note that I did not mention slugging and tunneling because with this we are about to open a can of worms that not a lot of people here can stomach, I fear.
Maybe I'm wrong. I hope I am.
I focus a lot on fundamentals in this game. No perks, no addons, no Items, nothing. I literally play a P0 Quentin who has yet to read that bloodweb info you get when you open the menu for the very first time. I play a perkless huntress without addons.
I tell you that I don't even look at what perks people have in the endgame panel. I do not care, I legit have no clue what 45% of killer perks are called or what they do. I know the META stuff because that is the only stuff that can significantly impact how the fundamentals of the game work.
I appreciate a really good survivor who got his fundamentals down because those are the ones who are really dangerous and the ones from which you can learn the most about this game. They do not rely on that Lithe, that Lithe is that last bit of juice that he squeezes out of a chase that required far more than relying on perks.
When I see a survivor with weak fundamentals, the perks might help him a bit here and there, but his death is literally inevitable if no intervention happens. He has no chance outside of the very little RNG that the Map offers coupled with a lucky perk proc or a last ditch effort lucky execution of the "Finesse" perk.
Now, why am I saying all this. Who on earth will read this wall of text? I don't know, I hope the right person does, at least.
EDIT: I want to add to this that I not only appreciate the really good survivors, I also appreciate the lesser skilled survivors. More when I play Killer, admittedly, but in general. You can't win them all, but you can choose to give it your best shot, or give up… or throw a tantrum… it's really up to you how you will take it. I've had plenty of silly, non serious matches that were also fun.
Just to add to the point that my experience of the match variety is quite extensive. I can see that my point of view very likely requires a person to invest a good chunk of hours into the game with the clear intend to have fun as well as genuinely improve as a player. The average person probably just wants to finally hit that guy before he reaches that damn shack window, or feel spooky vibes while hiding behind a bush as meg while the killer barely misses you.
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@Nocturnum said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873386#Comment_3873386
Thanks for being understanding. And yeah, I never demanded or whined about anything. I'm not trying to guilt or blackmail anyone either. I don't know why some people have to take what I'm saying in bad faith. I simply want the bad behavior in this game to stop so everyone can enjoy their time playing it instead of being an the mercy of someone who's actively denying their ability to play. Nobody likes that, it's pretty cut and dry.
If you allow me to give you one advice.
Try playing custom lobbies instead of SoloQ. Find some people that you can play with and arrange a couple of games.
It might seem out of place but I would like to tell you a story of what happened to me today so that you might be able to make yourself a picture of what DBD can do for you, and what you can do for DBD.
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@tjt85 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873239#Comment_3873239
There are indeed many different DBD experiences, which makes the game difficult to balance for everyone. But ultimately, I think BHVR should balance for fun above all else and I don't think a lot of Survivors are enjoying the game right now. So maybe you're right about finding out why players are giving up so often.
Especially with regards to the Survivor experience. If you're asking players to choose a side that's going to lose more often than not, there has to be a better reward for your time than less than 15K bloodpoints and maybe, if you're lucky, a decent shot at hatch (assuming the Killer doesn't tunnel / camp you out of the game or slug for the 4K to deny you even that opportunity).
Splitting the queues is a continuing issue, imho. I rarely lose a Killer game with my main in Chaos Shuffle right now because the system is struggling to find me suitable opponents (likewise, Survivor escapes are rare).
You speak of balancing around fun, as if BHVR isn't trying to do that. I am sure BHVR would claim that they want the game to be fun. Obviously, but what does fun mean to you. What does fun mean to Otzdarva? What does fun mean to a competitive player like KnightLight? My christian grandmother would certainly not label something like simulating mass murder for entertainment as fun. to begin with.
People play Dead by Daylight for very different reasons. And out of this entire pool of available players that contains all sorts of reasons you pick 5 and put them in a lobby.
The fundamental experience of SoloQ is chaotic by nature because the ingredients of every match are. This is not necessarily a bad thing. In fact this is really great IF and only IF BHVR can actually capitalize on the data they have in a logically meaningful way.
What I would do is offer a system where every player can categorize themselves in whatever format BHVR can implement. Keep the MMR system as it is for now and compare it to the category the player chose. According to this results you can on one hand compare BHVR data with the perceived player experience and group together new pools.
The key as to why this can work is the supposedly endless data that BHVR has accumulated in conjunction with understanding the playerbase as a whole and on an individual level.
A horror fan who has bought DBD because of the Horror Icons and he loves playing Myers after work and he gets really into the role. That guy in a lobby of people who are on a 100 win streak while watching a "checkspot on longwall junglegym" tutorial… I don't know. Maybe he really loves that challenge and overcoming that obstacle is something that he likes, but he is just not good enough. Maybe he hates that tho and wants the afraid survivors who love hiding and acting like they would act as if they were in this situation.
If you can slowly over a long period of time collect this data you can slowly shift the pools so that there is a higher likelyhood for you to find a lobby with people who are looking for the same experience, but you don't have to completely split the pools apart. Don't do that.
Now some of you will probably ask the obligatory question "But what about all those guys who misuse this system to ruin the experience of others". Which is obviously a valid question to which I might say –– overhaul the Rating And Report system. Make it an easy one click solution to give props to other players you enjoyed playing with. This is even more data that can be used to determine which people are doing it.
I am talking about a system that needs to run parallel to the current SoloQ for a long time. Matches will continue as they are and the playerbase can slowly correct itself if the system is implemented skillfully and the playerbase accepts it.
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You're just afraid that you're bad, aren't you. You little rascal.
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872390#Comment_3872390
This is roughly my experience with about every Killer I play, and as Survivor too.
If I have even one random in my Survivor lobby, they are almost always selfish, egotistical, toxic, greedy, bad at the game, willing to DC/end on hook after one down, or a combination of all of those. That's if they aren't some random anon who is a hacker or a TTV in disguise just looking to style on the Killer to the detriment of everyone else in the round. That means my MMR goes down through no fault of my own, and surely not because of my skill. Then the game smacks me on the wrist and goes "no, bad Survivor no cookie" and punishes me by telling me I lost, giving no pip, and giving me fewer BP. No wonder people go next all the time, it's because it isn't fun to do your best and really try your hardest to just vibe and get points not even playing meta or anything, but then you still get shat on despite all that. This is not fun for me, and it surely isn't fun for the Killer who now has to deal with the stress of some uberplayer or the boringness of an easy target.
But on the other hand, if I play Survivor and we begin to streak, and I do really well and escape a lot by playing as stealthy and aggressively hard to catch as possible - if I put on even ONE more meta perk besides Lithe and bring ONE more item like a Commodious BNP Spool box or a syringe medkit and use it to win - the game tells me "good job you are always supposed to escape forever" even though it's clear the game isn't balanced for that, then rewards me with a pip and BP increase. That means Survivors play this way more often (not necessarily me). If I play this way, I do win more often but also my MMR increases so rapidly and so far I get just the sweatiest Killers imaginable, every game, forever - because MMR is exponential in gaining it, but not losing it. Four slowdown Nurses and Blights. Killers offering tilted maps. Billys that slug from the word go because they're just that damn good at curving and like to focus unhooks. Me and my more chill SWF don't stand a chance; none of us are bringing anything that meta and we are playing the game as intended, and we just do not have any amount of a chance against these Killers. The game is over before it began and I am left asking why I loaded up as Survivor at all, and then I get told "no, bad Survivor" by the game for losing when it's really not even my fault I won so hard to get here in the first place.If I play Killer, and I play even remotely well with a Killer I do well with, I trip and fall into a 4k so easily it's like the round was not worth it. The game then tells me "good job you are supposed to 4k everyone" even though it's clear the game isn't balanced for that, then rewards me with a pip and a bunch of nice flavor text, and the option to Mori in the end. This leads to Killers (not necessarily me unless I really want the Mori or whatever) playing like their life depends on the 4k, because only 4ks are incentivized. That leads to the Killer doing everything in their power to GET there, be that tunnelling, slugging, camping, or just playing hardball. That's not fun for Survivors to face, at all. There is no mercy or kindness in such a playstyle, but it's what the game expects you to do if you want to win - no fun, no messing around, no silly moments, no chill or mercy or vibing. Just ruthless killing by any means necessary. And I don't really find that fun, but I also don't enjoy being told I'm skill-less by the game if I lose. So… I play to win.
But, if I play this way, I slaughter everyone in my way even with the weakest of Killers on the tierlist, up to a certain point where I hit a wall, and no it does not matter what Killer I use - Nurse, Blight, Wesker, Ghostface, Dredge, Dracula, Chucky, Sadako, Trapper, Myers, Huntress - if I use ANYONE and start to do really well, just because I am decent at that Killer, I eventually face nothing but the dreaded SWF Team 6 every round forever. Survivors who know mindgames intimately and seem to have wallhacks and hug pallets and refuse to even engage in a normal chase because they're too good at checkspots for an M1 to catch. Survivors running full meta perks in every slot AND probably are a SWF in comms. Survivors that crouch perfectly to avoid every M2 hit I do, Survivors that know the counter to my Killer by heart, Survivors with four Syringe medkits or Commodious BNP Spool toolboxes that hide so well I can't find them, genuinely cannot, without any aura read. There is no skill issue, I am playing perfectly, I am doing everything I would in any other game, the issue 100% is not me. It's just that these Survivors are SO GOOD there IS no catching them, it's like all four are the Final Girl in the horror movie and I just don't stand a chance. I have no breathing room, no air, NOTHING I can genuinely do to make the round feel decent, because these Survivors are so ruthlessly efficient, and then I lose and get told "no, bad Killer, you're supposed to ALWAYS 4k". Then I come to the community with how bad this feels, and get told by people there "You did something wrong", "Must be a skill issue", "um well ACTUALLY Killers are overpowered, so if you are struggling it's your fault and you're just bad at the game", "Just use [baby Killer perk I have long outgrown], it's easy you can unlock it by prestiging [Killer I have already unlocked and prestiged ages ago]" - because the game has conditioned everyone to play for the 4k at all times as if that's all that matters. Then I wonder, why did I even log in to play Killer at all?
I genuinely think tierlists are a myth, and "good Survivors" can destroy every Killer in the roster given enough skill against that particular Killer. I believe basically any Killer can be good or terrible depending on the player, and it's clear BHVR also believes this, even though it's buffing Killers that need it and nerfing Killers that overperform. But the community doesn't seem t believe this, the community is obsessed with "but Good Survivors/a Strong Killer" this and that and the other when quite honestly you only start to see those "Good Players" when you sweat and winstreak - something very easy to do unfortunately, on both sides, if you play the right meta. Yes, even with Survivors being weaker now, you can still do this. See, I believe "Good Survivors" are a lot like "Good Killers" - just meta players who realized, "this is how you win and winning is all that matters in this game" - and they ruin the game for the rest of us. They aren't wrong to play this way, the game says this is how you show you are good at it. But they aren't fun to go against at all, because nobody enjoys playing really well only to be told "congrats your prize is demon players from the depths of Hell who have never been defeated and are on their hundredth win in a row, good luck LMAO you're gonna fail". It doesn't reward winning, it doesn't reward skill, and it doesn't reward your hard work getting good at your chosen Killer or at Survivor in general. At all.
The only solution I have found to the MMR crisis is to just… never try. If you even remotely feel like you're getting to the point where the game is slightly even a little bit of too much resistance? Tank your MMR with a meme build or 8 hooking, don't put on anything useful, don't play anyone strong, and don't pretend you're good. Let people go, play friendly, die as soon as possible and let your MMR tank, baby, tank. I genuinely feel like that is what the game expects you to do in order to have normal games, because otherwise you always get a game that is either too easy or too hard. And you have to do it a lot, because you lose MMR half as fast as you can gain it on both sides, which means you gain way faster than you lose it and so you never have a true balance.
And I just wish MMR weren't like that. I wish it weren't exponential. I wish I didn't feel the need to always bring the strongest things to get out of the baby pool or even compete as some Killers. I wish the game did not tell me I'm only worth a damn in it if I win constantly, and I wish I could just pull back and not worry and still be given a "hey good job" even if I don't 4k or escape. I wish the game didn't take itself so seriously, and I wish the comp nature of MMR didn't factor into the game this hard.
Because frankly, this MMR system doesn't work. Not in the same way it does for other games. And neither do emblems.
This is an exceptional quality post and I have read read it from start to finish.
I appreciate that you took the time to formulate your experience in such a detailed manner and I applaud your skill in doing so.
That being said I agree and my experience is the exact same. I have mentioned it in many of my posts but I feel it's necessary given the context, I play both roles equally and 80% of my playtime is without perks, addons and items.
I go through phases where I sweat and really try to learn and improve, mixed with phases where I just relax, become more experimental, try out weird perk combinations that now make a lot more sense and have a deeper meaning to me now that I have been playing without any of them for so long.
Although I have one particular experience that I still find very curious and that is not addressed in your post, and is in fact the only experience of mine that deviates from yours, namely that Huntress is easily my most played Killer, and I can run winstreaks in the hundreds with her without breaking a sweat. As soon as I switch to Bubba, a killer I used to main years ago but that I rarely touch just for fun, every single matchup is exactly those super efficient god survivors you talked about, sending me on a loss streak, probably also in the hundreds if I cared to take it on my chin that often. I haven't had a chill bubba game in ages.
Then I switch to Ghostface and all my games are again super easy and most of the time just a memefest.
This particular part resonated the most with me
The only solution I have found to the MMR crisis is to just… never try. If you even remotely feel like you're getting to the point where the game is slightly even a little bit of too much resistance? Tank your MMR with a meme build or 8 hooking, don't put on anything useful, don't play anyone strong, and don't pretend you're good. Let people go, play friendly, die as soon as possible and let your MMR tank, baby, tank. I genuinely feel like that is what the game expects you to do in order to have normal games
Since my natural phases of sweating and relaxing, as well as the fact that I play without perks and and such put me in a comfortable spot where the majority of my games are enjoyable for me.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
The MMR system is designed to assess new players’ skill levels after a couple of matches and move them to the appropriate bracket.
Ayrun’s hardcore solo survivor shows this pretty well. Starts on a new account and after a couple of matches of easy games, he’s then being matched with P100 killers.
Anyone who plays a lot (like content creators) will have their MMR move to where it should be pretty quickly. The only way they could keep “smurfing” is to buy the game hundreds of times over or intentionally lower their MMR (which is unrealistic and accusations of this have been debunked several times over).
That is to say, no, I don’t think bans for this are warranted because I’m not convinced this is legitimately happening with any significant frequency.
I have nothing to add to that besides my support for the statement.
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873022#Comment_3873022
Hello! Im not the original person you replied to, so my input may or may not be wanted, but the topic you’re discussing I actually am curious of your opinions/thoughts because I myself created a post somewhat long ago asking to define what Gen Rushing is. My main concern was that I had heard various different people call gen rushing various different things, sortve like how sometimes people say “tunneling” when it really wasn’t because tunneling does have a very specific definition.
When the term was originally coined it was back when the BNP was instant, a 4 man would come in with the exact same items/build dedicated completely for gens and they would complete then all in a sickening amount of time. It was so unfair that thankfully it was gutted, and it is no longer possible to do now what used to be done then when gen rushing was created as a term. (Changes for those perks, the BNP, and gen times for longer) But the term has still stuck around despite its qualifications of existence having not, and so I asked the community to help define what it was. The consensus was mainly “it’s dependent upon that person” as in it doesn’t have a specific definition as everyone defines it differently. Which to be honest with the way my brain works, found that to be an extremely difficult answer because it’s something generally regarded as negative, it has negative connotations, and is used as a justification for many other things, so not being able to have a definitive answer of what it is kinda drives me nuts lol.
So if you don’t mind sharing, what is your personal definition of gen-rushing? Is it simply if gens get done without a certain number of hooks being met regardless if any gen perks or toolboxes are present? Is it when a specific builds or items are brought in, regardless if its Solo?I find your post very interesting and you're clearly a person with an investigative and analytical attitude. I like that.
I asked myself the same question, also analyzed the general consensus and found that there is none. It's a lack of cohesive definition on a macro level since on the micro level the individual definitions do not align.
This is not exclusive to this specific term, but to the perception of Dead by Daylight in general, which is in my opinion a prime factor contributing to the current "disorderly" state of the community.
But to answer your question:
To me personally "Genrushing" is neither negative nor positive as it is a strategy that can be employed in order to achieve a goal. On a macro level the entire team of survivors knowingly has to participate in this strategy in order for there Genrush strategy to reach its maximum potential. On a Microlevel this means that Perks and Items which focus on maximizing this strategies potential must be chosen. It is also necessary to utilize these perks and items in a meaningful way to the best of ones ability to rush gens. In other words if I have the perks and hide in a corner, am I a genrusher?
Given that all survivors knowingly chose to utilize this strategy to whatever success, we can say that the gamestate is thus such, that the gens are getting rushed. From a killers perspective this is an apparent fact of the gamestate. Whether or not the survivors are successful depends on an incredibly complex set of circumstances.
Given the unpredictable nature of SoloQ, true genrushing in its maximum potential is probably exceptionally rare.
Here we could easily philosophize the nature of time, the experience of time and what "rushing" really means. And here, naturally you will again come to the conclusion that there is no clear definition.
The inherent difficulty in defining Genrushing lies in the overall loose definition of what Dead by Daylight is, as well as a myriad of ideas of what Dead by Daylight ought to be.
Personally, I play both sides equally, and I do believe that I have a strong grasp on the games fundamentals. The soloQ experience is very varied with games lasting from mere minutes to 25 minutes+. Mind you the the majority of my playtime both on Survivor and Killer is spent playing without any perks, addons and items.
From experience, the extreme cases of genrushing requires a coordinated swf and is in itself an impressive feat of teamwork that is nonetheless object to the knowledge and skill of the killer they are facing. If I can identify a genrush early and am successful in reading the other teams play style I am now faced with an incredible task of identifying or even creating weakspots.
If the execution of the survivor team is flawless, if I do not manage to capitalize on any mistakes or create weakspots, the defeat can feel overwhelming. I just got genrushed. What an experience, how can I counter it?
I feel a big part of this is the Map Design that can either favor killers or survivors in terms of available resources. On a resource heavy map, given those same survivors from above, the experience of my time rushing by will be a lot more intense than on maps that offer less in terms of defense for survivors.
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@tjt85 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873195#Comment_3873195
Oh yeah, I've definitely gotten into the habit of jumping into a locker if one is available anytime I face a high mobility / teleporting Killer. There's always a very good chance of BBQ being in play.
I just don't like the direction the game is going with regards to the overall nerfing of the stealth playstyle, as brighter maps with less places to hide and aura reading perks become more of the norm. Also, I think the content creators and streamers that have BHVR's ear don't understand that for more the casual Survivor players, hiding is usually the more optimal way to play. The time and knowledge required to learn how to loop well is astronomical, but pretty much everyone knows how to hide. Of course, excessive hiding is a problem for the game's health and that needs to be dealt with too (especially when the last 2 Survivors are hardcore stealthing around the map and refusing to touch gens).
That said, I think the problem with giving up is the number 1 thing to be addressed before BHVR can get a really good understanding of the true state of the game. I have a feeling that a lot of balancing is being made around SWFs who give up less and tend to be the more reliable / gen focused teammates. Of course, you have some cases when a duo will give up an otherwise winable game because their buddy died before they did. But overall, these Survivors are much less likely to be in games with players that let go on hook without the decency to give their team a bot, because you wouldn't SWF with a Survivor who played that way for long.
I don't even jump in a locker except for very specific scenarios. Having played this game for a long time I have invested a lot of time really learning loop possibilities to an extend that the majority simply can't be bothered to do. That's why I am confident in using all of my available tools as a survivor, both stealth and open confrontation aka looping the killer.
As you say it's an astronomical endeavor to really learn this by yourself, let alone in the chaotic environment that soloQ is and therefore it's very obvious that stealth will be pretty much the only defense a casual player has. In many cases survivors even want to get immersed in it and do not want to consider the gameplay that emerges when stealth is not an option.
A skilled player will have the option between stealth and action, an unskilled player does not really have that option yet, if ever.
For me personally I find myself successfully applying stealth to turn a situation in my favor even when I don't use perks. Sometimes it does not work, either due to the killer finding me naturally or the killer utilizing an aura reading perk. In both cases I am not necessarily mad, it is what it is. But I only think about it like that because the other aspect of the game is just as nice to me.
To your last paragraph, it is interesting because I believe the total opposite is the case, namely that the giving up epidemic as many people call it can only really be addressed once BHVR understands (read: acts upon in a meaningful way) the true state of the game. I largely believe that we are talking about two different games. Two different Dead by Daylights. And that's precisely why a balancing is hard to find, if not impossible to bring about in such a way that everyone is satisfied.
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@SelectDevotee68 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873185#Comment_3873185
I think you should turn your comment into a discussion.
Thanks for the feedback. I am planning on it and will get to it at my earliest convenience.