Green_Sliche
Green_Sliche
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990255#Comment_3990255
But also, how can she improve if a killer identifies her as the weakest link and tunnels her out with minimal gameplay? The longer the weaker players can stay in the match, the more time they have to improve at skill checks, learn maps, understand gen and totem placements, try to identify and counter killer perks, etc.
Play with friends then.
It may sound rude but one should not expect a friendly behavior from the opposing side while playing against randoms in a competitive game.
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@solidgamer44 said:
Not gonna lie for a killer main like myself that never tunnels or slugs and actually go out of my way to not hook the same person twice (unless they're begging for it or not healing and getting on a nearby gen instantly) but that hardly counts as tunneling in the slightest.
This is a huge buff to my playstyle lol, I don't slug either so this is just a win for me and maybe ill play more survivor cause I know how my fellow killers play they can be really nasty and inconsiderate of the other side (this is ofc true for survivors too) But its more brutal to be a survivor on the receiving end.
Gonna suck for all the killers that have been using tunneling to get easy win against soloq survivors cause honestly that's when it works the best when survivors try to put time and resources into the person being tunneled if its a swf they don't do that ######### and you'll probably lose.
BHVR has been kinda trolling lately but we'll see if this is a hit or miss..
Great post mate.
Now you can switch back to your main account.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990199#Comment_3990199
I mean, this just demonstrates your misunderstanding of how the game functions on a fundamental level.
If the killer didn't exist, or was afk, or simply did nothing, then the game is "do gens and leave". The default for survivors is to do gens and escape. The only force/entity in the game that alters that is the killer.
Unless or until the killer gives survivors something to do other than gens the survivors will do gens.
If you are expecting the survivors to stand around politely waiting to be fodder, that's simply unrealistic and sounds entitled.
You're going to an extreme, in saying that survivors aren't "allowed" to touch gens, but that's not the equivalent of what's happening for killer here.
There's a very distinct benefit of free information and gen regression to encourage spreading hooks. And you aren't "completely barred" from tunneling someone out, you can choose to, or slug them to make them in time out in another way, or can spread hooks for the benefits. Killer agency is completely intact and at no point is the killer "unable to pursue their objective" in any sense of the word.
What pray tell will competent survivors be doing while killer is trying to figure out which one of them is weakest and is worth focusing their attention to?
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@Dadeordye said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990232#Comment_3990232
I have a friend that plays pretty bad as surv (never touches killer) and I'm helping her to improve.
How TF she is suppose to get better if killers start to simply ignoring her?!I'm an average survivor myself and I can only give one advice to your friend which I follow myself - play and practice more. It would had been far better environment for beginners if devs introduced Bot Killers that are present in 2v8 for custom match with variable difficulty settings. Right now beginners are simply thrown to the pit and are forced to learn or drop the game entirely.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990228#Comment_3990228
Okay, so, first of all, completely different scenario to the one you discussed first. Gen regression not working isn't a buff to lasting in chase or hiding, not even indirectly. The repair speed bonus could be argued to be an indirect buff here, but it wouldn't be helpful or constructive to take that lens.
Second, those things only come into play if you tunnel someone out, which means there are two broad things to say about it.
1: You still have someone dead, so. You're not exactly necessarily doomed to lose even in the worst case scenario.
2: You have complete control and agency over not being in this scenario to begin with. Sure, I'll buy that cheeky 4-man groups might try and force the issue, but they can't actually force you to hook someone if you choose not to.Third, I mean, the developers do get to dictate how people play their game. A good developer will roll with the playerbase to a certain degree, but it's completely within their mandate to step in and say "this one specific thing is not legitimate" before doing something about it.
Devs should not dictate how players can or should play their game. There are buffs and nerfs and then there are forced new rules which drastically change the way one side can play the game.
The problem with their suggestion is as I mentioned before - it does not take a number of completed gens into consideration. Their proposed solution will punish killers no matter what they chose what to do and it won't matter if this does happen at 5 gens where most killers could really afford spreading hooks or at 1 gen where killer needs a survivor out in order to continue playing the game. Losing ability to defend gens by regressing them is far more impactful when it happens at 1 gen left than 5.
The entire ''premise'' requires a different solution. They want less experienced players have more opportunity to stay in the game, it's understandable. There are plenty of other ways to do that, yet what devs propose is to punish killer specifically if a weaker survivor is eliminated too early from the game without really considering plenty of other situations where this could even happen.
Btw, just so you know, their ''solution'' to anti-hook camping still doesn't work because it takes very little to stay at sufficient distance from the hooked survivor and it takes another survivor to circle around to completely deactivate the entire mechanic. The easiest and far more effective solution would be to teleport the hooked survivor to another hook somewhere else, instead they introduced this half-measure mechanic that does not work. Same thing is being done with anti-tunneling.
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@FabledSpider said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990199#Comment_3990199
am I supposed to see a survivor make a blunder and go “ok chill my guy you just made a mistake, be on your way”?
By recent devs logic, yes.
God forbid you find someone who can't loop against you and hook them and they die before you have other players hooked. I imagine if a similar rule for generators was introduced, there would be an uproar going on every social platform that BHVR does have.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990209#Comment_3990209
You're the second person to say that to me, but survivors aren't getting any buffs in those areas, so I don't really understand the point.
Hell, survivors are arguably going to be made very slightly worse at hiding because of the killer buffs proposed in this patch. Only slightly, but it's there.
It is a massive in-direct buff if you look at these changes from every other angle. They will likely become more noticeable to you when you realize how important for a killer to have any sort of gen regression and how massive it is for survivors when gens can no longer get regressed against a large list of killers, particularly M1 ones. All that will become possible because developers try to dictate how killers should be playing their game.
If their intention was to protect people from being tunneled by any means, they could had granted the recently unhooked survivor full immunity for 60 seconds unless they do any conspicuous action. There, a rather simple and sensible solution where killer would now have to waste 120 seconds of their time just to tunnel a single guy out without any need to juggle around survivors and be punished for hooking someone twice or getting any early kills for whatever reason. Instead, devs introduced this entire nonsense.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990185#Comment_3990185
If you wanted to get really technical about it, it's BHVR's fault. Nobody is forcing Killer's to tunnel though.
Dunno, you'd have to ask them. Facecamping was removed twice for blocking normal gameplay.
To be honest with you, after seeing in which direction does this game go, I'd say I should save my time by not asking them anything than expecting any sensible response. I do appreciate the advice though.
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@jesterkind said:
I've only skimmed the later responses to this thread so I may be repeating others' points, but I want to point out that your scenario here makes two massive assumptions.
First, "You hook survivor A but can't find B, C, or D". Let's talk about this- why can't you find them? I did read far enough to know someone pointed out that these proposed changes also include basekit information to help you out here, and they also brought up that there are a lot of other tools.
To reinforce that point, not being able to find survivors is pretty much just a skill issue. You should have a good idea of at least where some survivors are, and if you know that's something you struggle with, you should bring perks that complement this to better track survivors.I don't say this to denigrate you, it's encouraging - this is in your control, you can fix this problem.
Second, "Survivor A wanders into you and you hook them again". This glosses over that you don't have to do this, you can choose to down them and then leave them there on the ground to avoid penalties. Sure, they won't stay on the ground forever, but that's still to your benefit.
You have more agency in this process than you might think. Spreading pressure is already good, and it's set to get buffs- you're gonna do fine, and there's no shame in crowdsourcing advice if you're not sure what you're doing wrong.
All this is pretty much giving a survivor a free ''hall pass''.
If we gonna talk about not finding survivor being a skill issue, then we should also talk about being bad at hiding, looping and running being a skill issue too.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990160#Comment_3990160
This isn't a hard concept:
How do you know if they're the weakest link if you only chase one person?
If you've chased all 4 survivors, then I could buy this argument, but then... You aren't tunneling and this new system is literally only buffing the killer, since none of the "tunneling deterrents" come into play.
How about survivors let killer chase every one of them first before even touching a gen? Apparently this won't happen in a normal game, only in some fantasy dream one.
Killers need to capitalize on every mistake survivors make, just like killers are currently punished for every mistake they do. This seem to be a norm when applied to a killer role but when same principle is given to survivor role, suddenly things stop being fair or equal.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990130#Comment_3990130
Because searching for the "weakest link" isn't a part of this process in any way. You're just chasing the first person you see into they die.
You're trying to imply there's some calculated strategy here, where the reality is it's literally a "shut off your brain" and "chase the first thing that moves until it dies".
If you get lucky and get fast chases, then that results in a steamroll win. If you get unlucky and find the strong link, you can still lose (although the "good" survivor is still likely to die).
Maps have been nerfed, pallets weakened, loops nerfed, tile spawn logic required to avoid chaining. This isn't 2018 with literal infinites, it's 2025 with entire maps of dead zones. Getting chased and downed isn't a "skill issue" when the last few years have all been pushing to make those chases shorter (demonstrably, with stats to show that was successful). Not by skill, by literally stacking the deck in the killers favor.
So even with this "strategy" killers can still manage to win games quite often because the mechanics to stop it simply didn't exist in live yet. The band aid perks are merely suggestions the killer can freely ignore.
Then how is killer supposed to find the weakest link in the fist place?
Doesn't getting someone hooked and killed early already indicate the presence of weakest link in the game?
The way I see it killer should purposely ignore weaker survivors and go for the strongest one because weaker survivors also want to play. Yet if it's a killer who is weaker then it's fine to give survivors full reign of the match.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990130#Comment_3990130
Because the game ceases to function as intended when the Killer purposefully denies a player the ability to play the game.
Tunneling is FAR too strong for how easy it is.
Is it killer's fault to begin with?
Also what is the ability to play the game in DBD in the first place? How do we measure when player has ''played'' enough and it's now ok to ''end'' their session in the competitive game?
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@FabledSpider said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990130#Comment_3990130
exactly, their whole argument is that that it’s a skill issue if you can’t find anyone. Well it’s also a skill issue if you get caught then, it’s also a skill issue if you don’t last longer than 10 seconds.
Thing is many survivor players can't and won't accept this statement. For some reason they feel like something is wrong with game balance that they got badly positioned or simply outplayed in any way and expect such cases to be addressed by the devs, usually in their favor.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990087#Comment_3990087
If every survivor goes into a locker every time you hook someone then no one is on a gen are they? Use that haste buff you got from your hook and start patrolling. I think you're overestimating the number of survivors that will notice you're hooking someone, think to hide in a locker, and have easy access to a locker right when they need it though.
If you 'unintentionally' tunnel someone out early on you've still turned the match into a 1v3. The match isn't exactly going in the survivor's favor.
The problem that does rise here is when does this happen. It isn't regulated at what amount of gens are done before survivor is killed. This rule essentially forces killer to go for a potentially stronger target who may have chase extension perks equipped, making catching them extremely tedious and time consuming.
All this talk about not commit to the bad chase now effectively can be thrown out of window now because for some ''genius'' reason killers shouldn't kill anyone until there are 6 hooks performed.
What if we introduce the similar rule for survivor then? No gen can be completed until at least 1 hook is made by a killer? Make it a forced 1 gen per hook rule?
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
I say the same thing every time this comes up, which is that the killers role at its core is to find, hunt/chase, and sacrifice survivors.
There are dozens of information perks, and even killer kits and add-ons that help you locate survivors. Distortion was deleted for exactly this purpose.
If you can't find people, that is 100% a skill/game sense/game knowledge problem on your end at this point.
(I'm also going to add that this feature brings base kit BBQ, you don't even need a perk with this update).
Same can be said about survivors. One of tasks that survivors have is to run away from the killer for as long as possible. Why killer should be punished for finding the weakest link in the survivor team? Survivor's inability to last longer than 10 seconds in chase should be on them, there are plenty of perks to ''extend'' chases and remain relevant in the match too.
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Devs could tie Fog Vial recharging to generator progress, like flashbang or other ''reusable'' perk effects. That way it would remain rather generous defensive tool that still requires some effort to restock.
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Right now killers who see survivors holding absolutely any item have to automatically assume they will use the exploit and have to react accordingly.
What a nice time to play the game.
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
I don't mean t bagging the killer at the exit gate.
Its something everyone has probably witnessed or experienced atleast once or twice in their time with this game. As i had a round today where we finnished all the generators, made it to the gates, i ran out the door as to avoid sitting their tbagging the killer like most do, and i noticed the rest of the team was still not in the chat. I went to spectate and saw 2 of the survivors holding the third survivor hostage in the corner of the exit gate. Waiting for the timer to get to one split second to run out and cause them to die from end game collapse. At first i thought maybe the new anti collision birds would help them, but they didnt spawn at all, and the killer was somewhere else thinking they were waiting to tbag. So this person was killed by the other 2 survivors because they can still hold them hostage long enough for the end game collapse to kill them.
The other method these bullies use is to line up at the entrance of the door with perfect spacing to prevent you from squeezing through, just long enough for you to be the last person in the area when the end game collapse finnishes.
So the idea that came to mind that couldve saved this person: during the end game collapse if a survivor stands still for 7 seconds without performing a conspicuous action, they lose collision with other survivors for 4 or 5 seconds. BUT to prevent this from being abused as a body gate tech by swfs and such, any survivors who pass through eachother by this method become exposed.
You report such team mates for griefing and move on.
Alternatively you wait until you have 3 crows flying above you which should give you a no collision effect and run elsewhere.
If anything there's a high chance killer will come and do something about it too.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956959#Comment_3956959
Tunneling: Going after the most recently hooked survivor despite there being another equally viable target without attempting to chase another.
See how easy it is to define a version of tunneling?
So if recently unhooked survivor does body block killer from going for the un-hooker, must killer still pursue un-hooker and lose time or killer may instead focus on the unhooked survivor instead? Will this still count as tunneling?
I just wonder why it's ok for survivors to play efficiently and do gens, ignoring everything else while it's rather bad for a killer to do the same and get rid of any survivor as soon as possible in the game that rewards survivors who focus on getting gens fast and does punish killer who tries to spread the hooks instead?
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@Hexbadboy23 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Z9H07K1KH19W/img-5849.jpeg
The killer slugged us and he didn’t even pick us up he was trying to find the last survivor and this kind of stuff is very annoying and needs to be fixed anti slugged should be talked about. Matches have been going too quickly because a killer wants to end us in seconds by slugging.
Don't you have an abandon function for that already?
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954033#Comment_3954033
This isnt about beginners. Its about MMR and how you can chill if you reduce your mmr, thats all.
It's exactly about MMR. As long as it's very very low, you can indeed have the rather chill games. However when you continue ''winning'' your games, it will cross the cap and will begin matching player with more serious opponents. From that point, no matter how many times you ''lose'', either intentionally or not, it will consider player ''experienced'' enough and will keep matching with the same pool of players over and over.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953864#Comment_3953864
The cap is there to protect completely new players.
So MMR isn't perfect, okay so what? Still works 95% of the time.
It doesn't work like that.
You can be beginner player and hit the cap very quickly because you were matched with less experienced opponents or simply lucky. Then, when you cross that cap you will get bombarded with people who play like their lives depend on the outcome and MMR will keep matching you with those because you can no longer go to lower MMR bracket anymore, you crossed the ''beginner'' zone already.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/449557/generators-are-pure-madness
You could also just take some losses and lower your MMR to a place more comfortable for you.
Sadly that won't work because there's that ''cap'' that doesn't let you go lower while MMR may still throw squads at you as a killer or S / A tier killers with top addons as SoloQ survivor.
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Game lacks equalizer mechanics.
When survivors struggle because someone gets tunneled and dies at 5 gens, they don't get any ''help'' and are now at killer's mercy.
When killer gets his first hook after 2 or 3 gens done, it is now forced to tunnel that one guy out asap because spreading hooks is no longer an option. Game also doesn't try to ''help'' killer in such situation.
There should be means to aid both sides when there's such a massive pace difference happening. Something like 2v8 mode has but more refined and effective.
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@SpringMyTrap said:
- All the distinct things are kinda not worth going for because optimal and generic&boring play is just this much more consistent
- Cameras are not worth it because there are plenty of other clues to go off anyway
- Doors are nice but people are figuring out prerunning with built-in clues and it's going to get worse
- Doors are kinda too good for gen control but the killer is overall too mid for that to be a problem
- Orbitals are unreasonably hard to go for even though they are the coolest part about him while zoning is too easy
https://youtu.be/RuFtGR99Cag?si=993CJLlLMKsD0DmI
I would add from myself that I think door grabs are way too random to really happen so survivors dont really feel like they need to be too strategic when using doors and there's just not much room for interaction there even though there could be a lovely dynamic if springtrap was fully aware when a door teleport happens.
I dont think this killer really needs big changes, though I would make door grabs much less reliable on a wild guess and more reliable on a position, i'd make his own teleport more telegraphed and Im definitely on with the idea of reducing holding speed and making hitbox bigger if you throw in an arc.
Said that Springtrap is a weak B- tier killer from the day 1.
Way too many counters for a character that is only good against inexperienced or oblivious survivors.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
I don't get why Springtrap has to be 110% while he has his axe, while Pyramid, Nemesis, Dracula, Plague, and Xenomorph all have similar projectiles that direct hit survivors as well. To be fair, I don't get why Huntress and Deathslinger are still 110% in 2025. It feels so arbitrary the way BHVR chooses to make projectile killers slower. Plague in corrupt purge has a better projectile than Huntress in every way except range, and she doesn't get slowed down.
When the hatchet lady was chosen to be slower than the regular killer, it was to mainly nerf her anti loop on short range scenarios at a time she was the only projectile killer. But nowadays we have Pyramidhead who can do everything she can do at close range but better. She is already a very weak killer, it does not make sense keeping her that way.
Because devs clearly can't balance projectile killers for people who refuse to learn how to dodge and loop.
It's their universal solution to it.
Thing is there are so many speed perks that survivors can use against 110 killers and the fact that these killers also depend on where they are sent to makes no sense to keep these killers gimped like that at all.
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@Stibfa said:
Kaneki needs his enrage vault to get nerfed, i honestly dont mind playing against him because he has to play tiles as a m1 killer, the vault just feels very cheap right now
How i try to play him is by body blocking instead
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UVFBXJ6R8DQK/1000025880.gif
Pre-dropping a pallet would had worked better ( or stunning him with it since he was willing to commit the chase ). There wasn't really that much space for circling around and killer was lucky that survivor decided to stick to that loop instead which allowed him to position self in front of survivor, blocking access to the pallet and then getting an M1 Lunge Attack.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950027#Comment_3950027
Survivor does not turn instantly, so not that hard to do imo. She can either double back, or hold W, but Kaneki is in power to stop both of it on reaction (at least on PC), so outcome depends on him more than her. Her skill does not affect much here.
Fact is his power is strong to down survivors and also gives free injuries… The whole "he has free injury, but is then M1 killer as Legion" is joke at this point.If survivor doesn't take into consideration that Kaneki can gain distance by bouncing and positioning himself in better spot then it's purely on survivor.
He is a killer who can use walls or other solid objects if they are near the loop and body block survivor. Survivor should either position self better or consider moving somewhere else.
Not every loop guarantees safety against every killer. Some killers can force survivors out of the loop sooner or make loop entirely unsafe. Knowing which one is better is the part of experience that survivor players can gain by playing more games against the killer.
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@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3943832#Comment_3943832
Legion has counterplays to his power.
So does the ghoul. He demands a bit more button clicking than Legion.
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@Naiki said:
I'm so tired of killers deciding to tunnel the first person they hook as soon as the game starts, since this last update I've seen killers tunnel non stop(we load into the game and someone gets tunneled as soon as they get unhooked while there's still 5 gens remaining so no one can say that "they had no other choice"). The new killer is strong as it is, I don't think tunneling is necessary but that's all they do. Behavior needs to do something about this because lately all they're doing is just slowly killing the game so many just want to have fun playing.
Killers will stop tunneling at 5 gen when they become more experienced and confident in their skill.
Don't expect them to stop tunneling if you do 2 or more gens when they only have 1 hook done. At this point tunneling someone out may end up the most effective way to secure the win, unless killer has some end-game perks loaded.
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@Xord said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946541#Comment_3946541
"He has to bounce off something with M2" that is basically ALWAYS doable so talking like this is a condition is weird. Which map is a perfect plane exactly?
"land very close to you" Yes, and? That'"s not difficult.
"cancel his power" At this point you're making a step by step description of his power? Wow, Nurse has to right click, release, left click again, then release, really Nurse is not good!!!
"wait for 1.5 sec for recovery" Yeah that's the huge problem with Kaneki, he can hit you after an M2 in 99% of scenarios because his recovery time is absurdly low. It should be a tad longer and either self root or hugely slow Kaneki (not an advocate for much longer recovery when a self root or slow accomplishes the same thing, let's not ask for a killer to be unable to input for 60 seconds per game). On top of that in a lot of cases the recovery time matters very little because he can just leap in front of a pallet or window…
"This is not the same as aiming your M2 and landing a hit." You're right, as I've stated earlier (if you had read my posts), it is actually much stronger to use your power to land an M1 rather than injure directly with your M2. That's why Blight and Nurse have been nerfed in that regard, their hit used to be registered as an M1, now it's an M2, but functionally, it's the same (and you still press the Mouse 1 button anyway), it remains a basic attack made after a teleport or rush. Not only can Kaneki do the same as Blight and Nurse, downing using his M2, but he does so while triggering Surge/STBFL/NOED etc…
I explained how to counter him. If you expect to counter him 24/7, sorry to disappoint but there will always be situation where you can't do anything against a killer due to being in a bad spot.A killer with a very close to 4 killrates (basically getting 3 or 4 kills in most of his games) kinda shows that it's not the players being terrible against Kaneki (what a coincidence, it's bad players, but only vs that killer, randomness does crazy things sometimes)
What do you want from a range killer without ability to down survivors with power? 1 million seconds recovery on power? Completely uncontrollable dash? Super short range?
@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946550#Comment_3946550
Some people simply expect a 100% reliable solution
If there is not realible solution and only thing people can say is generic advice, that kinda means there is not much to do…
For every killer in DBD I can say something that is going to improve your chances of escaping, except Kaneki.
Don't tell me you expect every Legion player run around for every survivor before landing the 5th hit for a down?
No, he is free to commit and I would say most player would prefer him to do it. I have absolutely 0 issues with Legion.
It is possible to deny first hit against Legion, not really that difficult, or at least deny him to hit anyone else. His power is very limited to use in chase. His fatigue is longer, his vault is worse, his mobility is worse. Kaneki outclass Legion at everything really…If target is in bad spot, Legion can simply disable the power
sure and his fatigue is longer than Kaneki and if you won't manage to down survivor, then you are actually pure M1 killer unlike Kaneki….
If there is a reliable solution to counter the killer without any drawbacks then the killer goes to F tier instantly.
As for Legion - you probably haven't played against good legion players who equip proper perks and addons and don't mindlessly chase people around. Once you meet one, you will be asking for a huge nerf because almost nothing but going straight line will work against that killer.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946322#Comment_3946322
He can get quick first strike but then he is an M1 killer.
Well, he is not just M1 killer, his power is quite easy to use in chase to deny many loops/pallets and distance.
Legion is an M1 killer after first hit, Kaneki is far from that. That's like calling old Nurse M1 killer, techinically yes, but no.
You also didn't really give any real advice. It's basically still only "learn to play against him". Except breaking LoS, which is not really that big deal imo, but sure.
Against any killer I can give real tips of what to do against them to improve. Fact that you can't do it against Kaneki is quite telling too.Practice is the best advice for any survivor who struggles against killer. Learning to loop is the second best advice. Some people simply expect a 100% reliable solution to the problem and get upset that such thing may not exist.
Regarding Legion - he can use M2 to land a first hit, maintain the frenzy bonus and continue chasing the same target. If target is in bad spot, Legion can simply disable the power, wait for recovery and land the second hit right after. Don't tell me you expect every Legion player run around for every survivor before landing the 5th hit for a down?
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@Xord said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946442#Comment_3946442
He absolutely can, he dashes, then M1. The same way Nurse and Blight Works. They perform a basic attack, yes, but that's a direct result of using their M2.
The only counter argument would be that it is technically registered as an M1 but that'd be a weird point to make considering it's strictly better to down using an M1, as it triggers a lot of good perks such as surge…
Let me rephrase it: Using your M2 to guarantee an M1 is ABSOLUTELY BETTER than using your M2 to directly down.
The whole point of what we call an M1 killer is that this killer can have ways to injure or slow down survivors but in order to take downs, you need to chase and M1 like any killer can. Huntress is not an M1 Killer. Legion is. Kaneki absolutely isn't.He has to bounce off something with M2, land very close to you, cancel his power, wait for 1.5 sec for recovery and only then he can do M1 attack. This is not the same as aiming your M2 and landing a hit.
I explained how to counter him. If you expect to counter him 24/7, sorry to disappoint but there will always be situation where you can't do anything against a killer due to being in a bad spot.
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@Xord said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946322#Comment_3946322
He is absolutely not a M1 killer if he can down using his M2. EVEN IF INDIRECTLY.
Nurse was never considered an M1 killer even when her attack was considered by the game code as an M1 hit. Yet it's exactly the same.
He can't down with M2, ever. He can gain distance with M2 which any killer that has similar power do.
If you need a more clarifying example - Wesker can dash, gaining distance and down survivor while doing so. Ghoul can never down survivor with M2, no matter how he does use the power.
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He is not strong, rather on weak side.
Survivors who aren't scared know they can use doors against him and can travel all over the map through them. This means they don't need to run to the next gen by foot - they can use doors as long as they see he is busy chasing someone.
Axe is short range tool and on some loops killer has to get rid of it one way or another due to speed penalty that it does apply. Game encourages you to throw the Axe away as often as possible and recall it only when you are certain that you can land a hit, which is counter-intuitive since normally killers keep their power ready before the attack.
The only reason why some people find him strong is because they don't pay attention to doors near them and get often ambushed by him because he walks with 0 terror radius for some time after exiting any door. Survivors who look around don't have such problem and those who know how to loop enjoy playing against a mediocre killer with a single clunky hatchet and reduced movement speed who has no anti-loop capabilities.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3945922#Comment_3945922
ok, tell me what to do against him. I would really like to know.
So far only thing I can see working is play Resi, stay injured and try to gen rush him. Not really how to chase against him.Learn to loop at tiles and stay in area where you can break line of sight with him.
He can get quick first strike but then he is an M1 killer. He also needs to bounce off something if he wants to gain distance with his power.
Practice more about him. Nobody says you have to loop all killers for 5 gens. Even average survivors can waste some of killer's time if they pre-drop some pallets or run around the shack.
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Learn to play against Ghoul maybe?
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@Pulsar said:
I did not know most Survivors searched for generators.
On a map like Lery's, I could understand, but most maps are wide open fields at this point. Gens are obvious.
The Axe seems to be an exceedingly effective anti-loop from what I've seen. Especially with the speed add-ons/perks, he basically gets an instant down on certain maps like Rotten Fields.Any competent survivor knows that going through the door when killer is chasing someone is the easiest way to find a generator. Swfs especially exploit this knowledge to the max. In fact, you don't even need to go through the doors in some cases - once you see one you already know the gen is somewhere nearby.
Axe works fine during vaulting and on short range. Any loop that can obstruct vision is a bane for this killer because he can't catch up to survivor due to being slower with Axe being equipped. If he does throw Axe, he can try to chase like a normal M1 killer but then he has nothing against a loop of any kind, be it a pallet or a window.
He is currently way too weak against similar killers and is the only killer who's power can not only be countered but used against him. There's no other killer in the game who has his power ''used'' against him / her so effectively.
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@scoser said:
I've been using them a ton as Springtrap tonight for transit purposes but have only caught a survivor using them twice tonight, and once was where I was going to down them anyways so they just used one right in front of me to get grabbed for the lulz.
Yes, in fact game encourages you to do so.
Once you memorize which door to use, you can traverse entire map without any risk when you see anyone being chased by the killer.
Combine doors with map and have a fun time.
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@Callahan9116 said:
Springtraps entire design is such that he is strong against no comms, weak against any comms.
Terrible Design
I know that balancing SWF vs SOLO is really hard, but why make a killer who stomps no comms and gets squashed by comms?
A minor correction here.
B or B- against solo, F tier against coms.
As for why he is made like this? Guess someone ran out of ideas and now stuff gets recycled and applied to new killers. A shame given this title could introduced something original, instead it offers a poor hybrid of two existing killers that struggles way too much than he should have.
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@KingOfDoom55 said:
He's what xenomorph would be if the flame turrets never existeed, except, a better version of xeno anyways
He's b tier at the least & a at the most, just learn how to go against him & you'll see that he isn't as op as you claim
To be fair, I had much more pleasant experience with Xeno than him, even after the so-called tail ''nerf/fix''. This guy isn't even a jack-of-all-trades. He is essentially the combination of demi-gorgon and huntress, yet severely inferior to both of them for some weird reasons.
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@Pulsar said:
He seems pretty overpowered, so that's hardly surprising.
Maybe in dreams of beginners and low skilled players.
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@Orvarihusklumpen said:
I
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3944168#Comment_3944168
Doubt it, this is the biggest chapter in DBD history, this will be the norm for 2-3 months imo.
Unlike ghoul, he is not such a fun experience. Unless he receives some buffs, the ''wow'' effect will be gone much sooner than you'd expect.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3944225#Comment_3944225
I don’t get it? I’m trying to play the way I saw online but I’m making so many stupid mistakes and then I can’t even down one person without losing 3 gens and there claiming he’s A tier?
am I missing something here?A classic buyer bait mate where some people make killer look easy or fun by either playing chill games with friends or against clueless opponents. In reality such killers quickly get put down by opponents who know how to loop or use the power against killer himself.
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He is slow killer. His axe shot is also very tricky to use.
You pretty much depend on addons that increase your speed. He has 2 of such. A perk that can help you increase your speed also helps.
There are two ways to play him right now - stealth ambush which involves going through doors and catching survivors off-guard. This is 50-50 because it won't work against vigilant survivors, but against gen-huggers it can give quite good results. Still you depend on how well survivors can loop and where things did spawn.
Another way is going for an aggressive chase. You can use Axe as haste boost by throwing it before yourself and with certain addon you will be able to catch up with survivor in a loop. The downside is that survivor too may gain the bonus from the axe ( stupid idea to let this happen ) but if you do it right, it can be that extra help that you need mid chase. However, quite often you may need to land some hits on survivor or else you will get looped forever.
To sum him up - he is B- tier killer who has to rely on very poor survivor performance and who's power and addon's can be used against him. His teleportation ability can be used against him as well. He was selected to be added into roster of killers for very obvious reason, unfortunately there's nothing original about him and he is currently extremely gimped for M1 killer with unreliable global mobility and almost no anti-loop presence.
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He is B tier killer. Learn to play against him.
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Give it few days tops.
Hype will quickly die and when people realize that he is a glorified mediocre killer they will stop playing him so often.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3943992#Comment_3943992
I have played him and I am not convinced.
Too sad then.
I can only advise to play more. Everything else likely won't get to you anyway.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3943832#Comment_3943832
False. Legion has to actually hit you with his power. Ghoul does not. I could have a pallet between me and the killer. Guess what? I still get hit
Have you even played as ghoul in the first place?
Ghoul needs to bounce off something before his power does land a hit.
Legion can click a single button and land a hit straight ahead.
Give ghoul a try and once you start getting some competent opponents you will realize how tricky this killer is to play.,
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3943269#Comment_3943269
They did this to Chucky, Knight and Unknown. Now nobody plays those killers and sit on a solid F tier. A job well done.
This is just false. I still see these killers quite often. Job well done on spreading false information.
Its not about nerfing a killer that cant down someone with his power. Its about nerfing the killer that gets completely FREE hits off his power and has almost 0 downtime for cancelling his power AFTER using it. Make that make sense.
I don't. I also play survivors and I haven't seen any of those killers picked. I see Singularity far more often than these killers even though it is much harder to play as.
As for free hits - Legion exists. I don't see people asking for a nerf when it's much easier to get free hit with legion than ghoul.