FreeKnives
FreeKnives
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- FreeKnives
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@Ohyakno said:
On the rpd one it looks like you're just hitting the top of that HVAC unit. The MacMillan one is a problem though.
Thank you for pointing that out. I meant to say I dont have a video of the bug, what I have is what it SHOULD look like. So that video is how it was before the update. After update you couldnt shoot over those objects!
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
I stopped reading after "4.4 m/s".
Just no. I don't want old slow Trickster, you can keep that one in the past, thanks.
You should definitely keep reading. Even if you dont agree. At least know what the argument is.
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I missed a lot on this forum. o.o
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This Trickster is not BETTER, he is different yes, and in some ways easier, and in some ways harder. Having a more rare main event is not that hard. 30 may have been too hard for someone who like to pick up Trickster once in a blue moon for a tik tok video, but it was not hard to get with even a little frequent practice on this character. 4.4 is slow. I watch my old videos and I can see that. But he was more lethal with throw rate, and his ramp was more interesting. He can be 4.6 and have a more rare main event, and it can even be half of 30 or even 20…. There are ways to adjust this Trickster so that he feels more like 4.4 without being 4.4 movement speed. In Endzej and Wacek google doc even had a version in there. But for me, if he went back to 4.4, I would celebrate a return of his skill ceiling and no reload. Both as a Trickster main and survivor. But at the same time Im not gonna say this Trickster is bad, cause hes not, hes just weaker where he was already weak, and stronger where he was strong. The benefit of 4.6 is not being outrun around a tiny loop that kind of requires an m1 anyway. And of course map traversal to get to gens. it makes some perks work better. But 4.4 Trickster was more competitive against survivors who know what they are doing, and swfs. So with this Trickster for the average Trickster main, you may hit a wall in mmr that you cant go past unless you have godlike accuracy and game sense. So eventually games will feel stale.
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@Zraith said:
Maybe people don't like the in-game fantasy he represents. His lore is just a phsycho guy with a lot of throwing knives. That's about as deep as SM's. It's more of a thriller story than a horror one.
Im for it honestly. For anyone that doesn't like him or his lore, I can find someone who does. Personally I find him a unique addition to DBD.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3671513#Comment_3671513
No matter what base speed Trickster has that awful recoil had to go. Made him actually unplayable on console with the controller.
Ive been playing him on controller since July. It is no doubt more difficult. But if you keep playing him and just practice, he was more than playable, and was very enjoyable despite his frustrations. Even this Trickster is still hard mode inherently because its controller though he is incredibly easy to use now. There is nothing BHVR can do about using your thumbs and joysticks vs keyboard and mouse (i do both). I went out of my way to prove that I can play this character on controller, and as well as a PC player, but I was willing to put the time into him, and it is very rewarding. I have to say. So it really depends on how bad you want to learn the character and there is no wrong answer there. Whether you want to or not. No recoil is a small comfort but I promise, it has nothing to do with what makes him difficult on controller. Ive played him 4.4 with Trickster with recoil, and Ive played him without. What makes this easier now more so than recoil, is the machine gun frequent main event, and I dont mind it being less than 30 knives to main event, but this feels kind of repetitive and cheap, and low skill being 8 knives...And it doesn't even help where his pain points are because of 8 knive to injure and slower throwrate, in higher mmr survivors know better and stay in high wall tiles or main building. Unless you are willing to forgo his power and just m1...which is depressing, you will lose so much time just trying to use your power. Which is what makes him map so dependent.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
I have had a lot of time to think about this, I have gone through and seen all the changes and tried my best to adapt.
Before I mention my thoughts, briefly, I understand there are other killers in the roster that need to be tended to, and they should be priority. Sadako has had her chance few times so we can come back to this but I want people to know what I’m thinking and feeling. Especially behavior.
Reworks are important sure, but not changing the character from what we paid for. (Trickster, Sadako, Freddy, Skull Merchant)
I have over 2000 hours in this killer. Here are my thoughts and frustrations.
Against low MMR survivors, this killer breezes through them, because they don’t know how TVs work. If I am playing against decent MMR survivors or high MMR survivors, may the odds forever be in my favor.
Behaviour you’ve done amazing work! However, please 🙏🏼 Tapes must be “cursed” OG tapes must return. I’m all for my TVs getting shut off but please they need to be reminded this is a curse! Otherwise counter play is too easy.
1) Tv spawns are not ideal. This affects her ability to condemn. (I shouldn’t have to bring an offering to make it better.)
2) Survivors pre run due to the Visual Terror Radius. Defeats the purpose of being a stealth killer. (Keep lullaby)
3) Survivors Counterplay is too easy. TVS are constantly off. No condemn, which means no slowdown mechanic, and no mobility. 2 aspects of her power out the door. (Wellstone addon. 6 seconds of 70? Isn’t gonna cut it)
4) Tapes need to be a threat again. (OG Sadako.) This will at least buy me some slowdown. Tapes need to slowly build condemn like they use to. This was a very unique feature that got removed and it made me so sad. It’s like playing pig, slappin a trap on someone’s head but saying “Ha!! No timer!”
5) Please bring passive condemn tapes back. Survivor grabs tape. Tv is off. No condemn stack granted. Passive condemn now grows for holding onto the tape. (This goes with point 4. Just trying to break it up.)
6) Tape insertion is 1 second. That’s steep. 1.5 is healthier. There’s very little counter play for her against survivors on this. (I could be wrong but It use to be 3 seconds for inserts)
7) Addons - After 2 addon passes I really thought there would have been more balance changes than this.
*Clump of hair needs a numbers buff or base kit. The main issue though with selecting this addon is that Survivors know you’re coming due to the visual heart beat.
*Distorted Photo is good but the issue is a survivor has to “Witness” you manifesting to take effect. Very annoying. Which means you’ll rarely get value out of it.
*Mothers Mirror - needs to be base kit. New effect needs to be added to it.
*VCR - is useless. They know which TV you are coming out of due to the auras.
*Tape editing deck - this is built on the old design that I love. In its current version it’s useless. Seeing their aura after putting in a tape is poo, they’ve cleansed. The tape is gone and now I get to see their aura for it? It’s a slap in the face.
Yoichis fishing net. Bring back old effect. (We don’t need 2 blindness addons. Sea soaked cloth and this one)
Rickety Pinwheel and Seasoak cloth punish you if you use your power. You no longer have an addon. (These 2 addons should be merged into green, and the addon would be better if it still worked while the tv was off)
Thank you so much for those that read this, and have supported me since I have started my journey out of the well. Honorable mention @jonifire helped me get my thoughts organized and he too has some of his own thoughts on the topic but if we are in this to improve overall quality for everyone to make it the best experience possible, we have to finish the rework we started. Please. 🙏🏼
I hope they address yours and many other Sadako Mains concerns my friend. We both know what happened with Trickster...and I have the same sentiments as you about them trying something, and appreciating it, but when its not working with the mains and people willing to play this character regularly, our insights seem to fall into the void. I hope they see this and stay engaged if they address it. I don't know to much about Sadako, but I think there is nothing wrong with continuing to tweak a character, or reversing things if things arent working. I mean thats how we figure out what does work. But listening to the mains of the character is important. And feedback like this is important. Stay persistent. <3
And hopefully they dont put her aside for months with a promise that they are thinking about it, nothing else...I know they are busy...and I love what they are doing with the new chapter...But some of these characters are really more than just a casual choice when you play this game. Some of us dedicate thousands of hours to get good at a character, some of us are content creators based off a character, some of us hold community events because of our characters with people that play our character, or join charity events using our characters, and it just feels wrong to negate how much impact a game can have on people, how much impact a change on a character can have on people who really look forward and enjoy the time they get to play. Yes these are BHVR creations, and I believe they do know best, of course they do......but I also believe that when you create something for the public, it takes a life of its own. Sometimes the fans know just as much, if not more by how many hours they spend on a character.
Nothing broke my heart more to see the Devs management unpin our Trickster Feedback Forum, when we had some much more we we were figuring out and learning with the updated version, and continued to share. I hope you have more luck than we did.
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@MrMori said:
He's weaker than people let on. Yes, strong when you've got tons of hours in him, but even then most killer give better results for that kind of time investment. In higher skill matches people use his lullaby to prepare to prerun. His throwrate is slow without memento blades, and good survivors know which tiles Trickster can or can't easily get a hit with power, and they take advantage of that.
He's pretty strong vs altruism, shredding multiple healtstates in the open and punishing unhooks, but good players will learn how to juke and dodge to make his "shredding healthstates" not as easy as it sounds. And often they'll know when to leave a person on hook and just do gens instead.
His killrate is bottom 8 according to official stats, low for a killer that people say is "super easy, braindead and requires no skill" and is "super oppressive in chase". I think people have confirmation bias and remember the times where they went down in 5 seconds on a short wall tile, and forget the times they lasted tons of time in chase because of connected tiles with tall walls.
People die to a killer and say "no skill" and rarely ever look at what they did, this is why people are claiming hes not weak...not the people that main him and play him daily. Trickster IS WEAKER in this state, because of the tweak to basekit (throw rate, ramping, and knives to injure) and the literal only thing that makes him playable is his laceration decay. I will never understand the complaints about Trickser and the immediate bias people have without ever playing him or learning correct counter play.
Trickster is good at 1v1, but matches aren't 1v1, they are 1v4, and hes frustrating right now in higher mmr. Shreds through people who run in straight lines and group up, and weak when it comes to good survivors who can waste maybe 10 to 15 seconds of your time, long enough for the other 3 you arent chasing to finish gens. He was much stronger basekit in his 4.4 version. And honestly if we had current photocard, haste/reward addons and maybe even haste added to a more rewarding combo system, to 4.4 version that would have been enough to alleviate some of 4.4 Trickster's frustrations. But here we are...the "buff" that turned into a nerf....that turned into just a different less unique version that is either strong in 1v1, but repetitive (because of reliance on m1 and Main Event), or frustrating and weak depending (because of throw rate and knives to injure) on mmr and survivors.
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@Shaddoll_Serpent said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670431#Comment_3670431
None of those are Trickster exclusive, that's all general killer game sense and skills you should have developed playing anyone.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670461#Comment_3670461
That's still little skill expression or floor compared to a majority of other killers. I don't think trick blades has much mastering solely because like you said, janky bounce logic. Only so much you could reliably do with an ability like that.
Bro, you are so wrong on so many levels. His power and how you use it dictates how you use the generic game sense you are talking about. And believe me having general game sense is not enough, you still need to know how the killers power works and how you can use their power. Thats like saying Im good at Trapper, therefore Im gonna be good at Huntress when I pick her up for the first time. And Im giving you examples of where Trickster is different and how you need to be good with him, but you see what you want to see.
Saying a killer that you dont play has little skill expression, is about a mute point as it gets. And frankly, Im tired of hearing people say it.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670398#Comment_3670398
I think your question has been answered by the various amounts of people replying. I’ll leave it at that
I dont think he read it tbh lol
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670380#Comment_3670380
Main Event for me is really fun and this is what is great with new Trickster for me. He feels like walking minigun! haha
I also enjoyed that machine gun at first, it was a honeymoon phase for me I guess with PTB version, (though I never liked getting main event so much) but it does remove the accuracy skill ceiling he had, making his special power more accessible, while simultaneously making him weaker in the overall match, when you want to use him more strategically or against good survivors/swfs. This Trickster is deadly in 1v1 in the open, but with the slower throw rate and higher knives to injure, it kind of makes it so the chase takes longer than before at tiles...so it really didn't improve him where things count. Actually the best improvement this trickster has is Photocard imo, but the basekit changes makes his map pressure weaker with good survivors than before. And gens pop quick so with this Trickster it can be very stressful to handle good survivors. So i always tell people get your Trickster to higher mmr, and then see if you still feel the same or if you notice any change at all. A lot of people start having to rely more and more on m1, as they go up in mmr and I know people dont pick this killer to be an m1 killer, so when you feel like its better or faster to m1....thats a turn off.
The worlds best Trickster Main, could get 252 wins in a row with 4.4 Trickster, thats world record for this character, a C tier underestimated killer at that....he mastered his accuracy on the utmost scariest level ina year or so, and proved with practice Trickster could be lethal even as a "weaker" killer. No one has come close to that winstreak... and he was even one of the first to be able to use Trickster in a comp setting with a more comp playstyle, or basically well. He still wrecks people today but this Trickster is weaker so comp setting is a bit harder now....I dont even think he can do comp now, but I know he did try to do a winstreak multiple times but cant get anywhere near his old personal best number. He is really inspiring to watch honestly. He is insanely good regardless, but as you can imagine with some of the skill ceiling removed...Main Event starts to feel cheap now with it coming so often. And when going against good survivors, being good at 1v1s in the open starts to feel less good because you are wasting more time at tiles trying to use just your power...and then being forced to m1 because you have to or gens will start popping. Its very frustrating as a dedicated Trickster main...who prides themselves on downing people with accuracy and skill....
Main Event is just so often it doesn't really give you a chance to breathe with your skill. But I do understand knives go brrr with Main Event lol, and people like to pick up characters casually, without trying to main him or when survivors arent as good you get to mow them down like grass, which is fun as hell ngl. That feels good, of course! But not long term, and its pissing off a lot of survivors atm xD. But to tbf, they could not group up and stop running to the open lol. Kind on them to learn how to counter this killer. I get mad when people call for nerfs with killers and refuse to learn the counterplay.
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@Shaddoll_Serpent said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670025#Comment_3670025
What do you think is skillful about him? Huntress has the orbitals, Slinger has trick shots, Trickster doesn't really have anything skill expressive about his kit as it's just a machine gun with little range so there's nothing really that hard to master with him especially after the changes.
Timing is everything with him, survivor prediction in combination with aiming, so shooting around tiles before you even see a survivor and still hitting when they turn the corner, conserving knives so that you dont reload every chase or every other chase, knowing when to pop main event, not missing blades or spamming, knowing how to pocket main event with m1, knowing where you can shoot knives and when, at each tile of each loop of each map, moonwalking with main event and other special techniques of mindgaming that can be extremely risky but high reward, how to build map pressure and knowing which targets to go after because you know how long it would take to down that person at that specific loop, based on your accuracy, how to shoot long shots, and hole shots without missing, showing knife discipline.....these are just some off the top off my head. You know...easy stuff cause Trickster just throws knives...no skill. Right....
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669455#Comment_3669455
@FreeKnives I am personally not a fan of his power but to each their own, however I am gonna stop you right there. “Little Skill Expression?”
That is so far from the truth it’s not even funny. I disagree completely.
I have been summoned lol
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There is a whole Trickster thread that BHVR unpinned....Trickster Feedback..... And I just posted something new there. But basically, A lot of dedicated Trickster mains who are decent veterans to top trickster veterans are losing interest in playing Trickster. I want to like this version of Trickster, I really did, but he feels like an extreme version away from what made him great before...I understand why casual players or people just picking him up feel like hes okay. After playing him a lot and both on Console and PC, I am seeing so much wrong with him now, and its hard to unsee or enjoy the more time you want put into him. I still find enjoyment, but I can see his issues...and he feels weaker even to me. So hes feeling frustrating a lot of the time with good survivors and swfs, because even with faster movement speed its not enough and now my power is weaker to trade for it?
I am a 900hr Trickster Main with probably around 9/10k lacerations on controller, and I am now starting to play him on PC with 50 hours and 1k lacerations. Controller will always be hard mode so there will always be a skill ceiling of some kind....but on PC its easier to aim,...so I understand now why he feels unrewarding to Trickster veterans on PC. With Trickster Mains, we enjoyed the challenge, getting downs mostly with knives, and the skill expression of downing someone only with knives is less now because of frequent Main Event (though Main Event has skill expression just not in low mmr and more about when you use it). The new skill expression is now not reloading for 3 to 4 chases. But you wont see new Trickster players do that, because if they take the time to learn Trickster properly they will of course lose for a while...and survivors who win against Trickster seem to be pretty ruthless for no reason......Everyone hates Trickster so the more survivors bash on baby Tricksters for losing trying to use their power lol....a new Trickster who spams (throws knives even when missing more than 3 or 4), camps, tunnels and uses meta everything to steam roll is born. If thats anyone who reads this, be patient, focus on his power, join Trickster community, watch others play. The problem is that this Trickster base kit is so much weaker now when using his power, that its hard to learn his power and not be tempted to do anything to win, including just m1 instead.
I see new Tricksters avoiding his power all the time, rely on Main Event, m1, or meta perks. I dont blame them. This is probably where the "no skill" comes from, new survivors or people who dont know how to counter Trickster in general, just not understanding that these Tricksters are not actually playing well, but if played ruthlessly can win anyway. But its just that the survivors complaining about no skill arent countering him properly. He actually takes a LOT of skill to play him efficiently or properly in medium to high mmr.
His throw rate, especially in Main Event is slow af, making him significantly weaker, but *yay* you have Main Event that pops every chase....you will secure a down probably, and you NEED to use Main Event, because that is how you play him efficiently now. It just gets repetitive at times. And the Trickster main cant avoid using Main EVent either, or he will run out of knives, and reload more often. Trickster HAS to m1 now more too, cause his throw rate is slower...I think that only adds to more frustration on both sides.
Or as I have seen with new Tricksters, forgo using your power altogether by just m1'ing mostly, because you are now 4.6 and you can....it feels like a mess to be honest. I love Trickster, everything about him, the way he looks, his cosmetics, his voicelines, story and gameplay.... I will always play this character, and he is difficult to master, but hes just not the same, he lost something....A lot of dedicated mains are giving up on him as of late.
With this version, 4.6 is nice in theory but they took away so much that anyone who knows a lot about playing this character knows...its not worth the trade of his previous stronger basekit. Not to mention it broke so many quality of life things with visual ques, sound, and animations....They took away ramping when throwing knives, his audio for that was removed, and his weaker throw rate and higher knives to injure make wanting to play him mostly m2 frustrating and hinder you....the fun part about him was using mostly knives. Main Event was so rewarding before because you knew that if you got it multiple times in 1 match, you were playing Trickster really well. It didn't have to be 30 knives to get, but why they went to 6 in PTB Im not sure. Especially because the cool down you have to go through now after Main Event hinders you every time you use it and BECAUSE you HAVE to use Main Event to conserve knives now, you are in that cool down animation a lot. So people learning to use Main Event need to be very careful when to use Main Event. That is where the current skilled expression is now with this version, not reloading for 3 to 4 chases, and knowing when to pop main event especially without an ME extender. But that will start to matter in medium mmr or high mmr, not so much in lower mmr. Survivors arent going to run in a straight line or run in a choo choo train for you anymore. So Main Event loses it lethality with a careful swf, or a survivor who can waste just enough of your time for gens to pop. Which doesn't take long. Hes weaker ironically because of the changes the higher up you go in mmr, and stronger in lower mmr than before. Like the opposite of what they wanted to do I think. He can end chases more quick now because of ME, which helps map pressure yes, but not if you are using his power/knives mostly and dont want to down with m1.... If you are using his power, the chase will take longer than previous Trickster. LOL So....you lose map pressure. Which is why a lot of veteran Tricksters are struggling, because not as much skill expression in m1. No offense to m1 killers.
I literally haven't seen a Trickster in months and finally went against a new one, on console at that...I was so excited..... and then he didn't throw a single knife.... He 4k'd with bat only. That broke my heart honestly. But again I cant blame him.
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Knifyyy is one of the most dedicated Trickster mains you will find, Im glad he finally put his opinion here. A lot of dedicated Trickster Mains, (worlds best Tricksters) even the ones who genuinely wanted to give this version of Trickster a try are starting to realize hes just not the same feel, and his audio/visual ques and animations are not working properly.
I like the movement speed of current trickster but I still stand by its better to have a stronger basekit instead, his 4.4 speed frustration could have easily been alleviated by current photocard, or in other creative ways to reward for aiming, like adding haste to combo system along with duration to Main Event not to mention adding flair like Trick blades to Supreme combo (something like that). Combo system is such a good idea, just needs more reward. And stand out better, I rarely notice it, UI wise.
Even though 4.4 base kit was stronger, he did feel weak then at times, not just because of MFT. This change to Trickster at least in PTB, was to buff him I thought, and make him accessible on controller, but Im on controller.... at medium mmr, and hes fun when you go against low mmr survivors sure...you shred, but 4.4 Trickster could do that... but thats not often I run into unaware survivors, and becoming less often as I climb the experience ladder. Even so, more experienced Tricksters who still shred with him even now, are feeling bored by the lack of skill ceiling that 4.4 had with rewards for aiming. Casual Trickster is fun to play once in a blue moon sure, but to main him like this feels like Im playing a mobile game thats meant to keep my attention while I wait for my laundry to be done, not something most want to play for hours a day or something to look forward to with keeping up with practice to stay good with him.
Luckily for me controller is and always will be hard mode Trickster, so I still have a skill ceiling I can always climb, but I had that before and Im learning PC/WASD so I can still enjoy climbing a skill ceiling with Trickster even on PC now, but aiming is easier with PC, and I can see why this Trickster is going to feel repetitive for PC players after dumping a huge amount of hours into him. I get it now. I like 4.6 movement at times, but because I want to use knives, I feel like I catch up and then might as well be throwing pebbles at them when they cut line of sight properly or loop well because of throw rate and knives to injure, and its just faster to m1. I hate that feeling. Being forced to m1 or rely on Main Event to get the down most of the time. Its just not as satisfying as when you hit a knife on someone to get a down (without ME). For controller 6 knives/faster throw rate was better, but I admit so is movement speed....but there are other ways to give a character haste other than basekit speed, or perks. And still make it rewarding...
I love the challenge of him on controller as much as it is painful at times...but I do admit that this character is and always will be better on PC, and as a controller player Im fine with that, otherwise changing this character to make him easier generally, is going to break the fun/reward of him... He is a skill-based killer. Despite people who have never touched him think about him. I play this character religiously, at this point DBD support is aware of my passion for this character I am sure.... To put in perspective...I have approx 900hrs on Trickster with controller/console probably around 9/10k lacerations, and on PC/Mnk probably around 50-60 hrs with 1k lacerations on Trickster, and the difference in aim is so apparent now, its kind of startling, that I finally do understand what you cant change about this character just for controller players, but also what you can so that he feels good to both PC and Console. This Trickster misses that mark, IMO. No recoil with haste addons or haste to reward of combo would have been a good boost to my controller 4.4 Trickster, you have no idea how much that would have solved when I thought 4.6 was the solution. But I wouldn't have known all this had we not got this version of Trickster, so I guess everything happens for a reason, and if BHVR is willing to continue to improve Trickster, then...hopefully its not too late....and we don't have to wait months for news or changes.
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Looks like work is in progress to fix Trickster's audio issues, and hopefully they continue to resolve all of his bugs. Im sure its more complicated than simply turning up the volume, especially with Trickster's voice lines during his Mori not working or not being synced. So Im hopeful. Its a good sign that they are listening and its appreciated.
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@TricksterEnjoyer5402 said:
Please bring back 4.4 Trickster cause 4.6 is an not something we wanted (4.4 BETTER) This Trickster can't even punish survivors that are doing an specific animations. I don't know how ,but you did make this killer so stale and boring. One of my favorites killers to play became a shell of former self and that's raising some questions.
Why did u guys think reworking Trickster to be 4.6 was a good adition to the a range killer?
Basically Trickster right now his power is meaningless, M1 is far better than knives. Having to injure someone in 8 knives and wasting far more time with each chase. I get ME 8 knives ,but why do i need to be reliant on the ME every single chase and can't focus on my knives. I don't want to be a machine gun. I want to be accurate and have fun , but i'm losing interest in this killer by the day.
I know many people quit Trickster cause is just not that good anymore, he's lacking skill in all departaments. Reworked add-ons that are not even good like Fizz Spin Soda and Ji-Woons Autograph let's not forget Death Throes Compilation.
PTB Trickster
Was fun to play him , but you over nerfed him, he was completely fine. He had 4 KPS and ME 6 KPS was really good, but you've only seen some videos from some interesting people and completely nerfed him. The PTB Trickster was mostly fine cause he had 10 seconds decay down sight a massive one, but nah. [ONE BIG KNIFE BTW]
7.4.0 Trickster
You gave us 3 KPS and ME 4 KPS? Let's not forger 4.6 and no recoil and his 10 seconds decay still ,but after some complaining from the community you backed up on those.
7.4.1 Trickster
Received
- Memento Blades Add-on: Increased the bonus throw speed from Memento Blades to 10% (was 5%).
That was just a bandaid, tbh that was laziest bandaid i've seen so far.
7.4.2 Trickster
Received
- Decreased the base time between throws to 0.3 seconds (was 0.33)
- Increased the Main Event throw rate multiplier to 66% (was 33%)
- Increased the Main Event active duration to 6 seconds (was 5 seconds)
- Reverted the time before Laceration starts decaying to 15 seconds (was 10 seconds)
That means you guys backed up with some his changes and acknowledged the mistake and gave us back some of his kit.
Overall you just admited that u were wrong. I don't wanna be mean ,but make this killer like he once was.
TricksterEnjoyer5402
You were in Wacek stream today. Hello! LOL
I do find myself wasting a lot of time in chases because of the 8 knives to injure, I have to admit... At first it felt challenging, but now I realize challenging for the wrong reasons. But its been 3 months and hes becoming repetitive, where as the 6 months before he did not feel repetitive despite my frustrations. The benefit of 4.6 is canceled out by more knives to injure/down, and slower throw rate, (no ramping either)....to balance him. Which seems fair on paper, but regardless, feels bad in practice and does not age well over time when playing him a lot. And as I said before a lot of survivor complaints would be alleviated with better UI indicators on their side, fixing audio cues that broke even. Even though I wanted 4.6, and liked PTB Trickster initially....Its just not feeling as good as the previous 4.4 Trickster..... I gave it a fair amount of time, I think. This isnt a snap judgment.
Maps are evolving too it seems, and becoming more cluttered with awkward or invisible hitboxes, and having more LOS blockers, and hitboxes on some maps are still broken with invisible walls for ranged killers like Macmillian shack.... so you really feel the 8 knives to injure, 16 to down every chase. You could argue Main Event is his saving grace currently, if you just use it all the time you will be fine. Thats true. I am fine using it all the time, it saves knives....and yet.... he doesn't feel great, it is becoming repetitive. I dont remember feeling that with old Trickster. I like not waiting 30 blades to get Main Event, and yet I think I'd still take 4.4 over new Trickster. He just felt more complete, his blades were better rewarded and more lethal, and his audio and animation worked better with his 4.4 design.
Although BHVR is considering "all players and the overall impact of the game" (a recent email) when it comes to Trickster, they should really consider dedicated Trickster Mains and repin this forum, because whether he was D tier, A Tier for a week, or back to C Tier....Its the Trickster Mains who keep playing him, who play him best, and can teach the best ways to play him, they advertise with streaming and fan art, they even help survivors learn how to counter him (if they arent busy being salty), and they are the ones who will buy all the cosmetics... Which is why I think this forum was unpinned prematurely by the Devs.
BHVR was able to make so many changes to Sadako, and get her back to feeling good for the Sadako Mains, and BHVR did Billy justice (albeit many years later) so it's not a stretch to believe that Trickster will be addressed again too. It's just... are they listening to dedicated Trickster Mains? Will we need to wait a couple of years too?
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642637#Comment_3642637
Streamers are sometimes the worst people to ask for opinions, because many of them are dramatic on purpose, and release dramatic clickbait videos, just to get clicks. And some of them throw entire games away for Youtube montages. And saying words like "most Trickster players" is misleading, because you really don't have a representative sample of the players.
If the sound really is just a "immersion experience", then give me a volume slider to turn off voice lines, and give me a volume slider to lower the volume of killer sound effects.
Also, I'm still a Blight and Nurse main. And yes, their repetitive noises are obnoxious too, and I wish I could volume slider them much lower. The difference is that Blight and Nurse are currently stuck with their garbage loud noises, but Trickster currently isn't stuck with garbage loud noises. So there is actual hope BHVR can keep Trickster at his currently good sound levels.
Blight and Nurse main...that makes a lot of sense now. You do indeed just enjoy the wins. Thats interesting.
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@Shrimplover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641546#Comment_3641546
I'm using this killer because I'm attracted to Trickster's sound and abilities, so I think I'll quit DBD when those things disappear. It's not just a game where you aim to win, but a game where you can enjoy the best experience. If you're just aiming for victory, I think you should just play another game or use a wraith that isn't interesting at all. What I see as a problem with the current Trickster is that the ``feel-good experience'' has decreased because the knife posting speed has become slower.
I agree with you. Many Long Time Trickster mains, and even dedicated Trickster players like myself who have been only playing him for 6 months even, are starting to feel the difference, things are not feeling as good long term....and I think it comes down to the "feel good experience" like you said....Its very sad to see the best Trickster players feel this way too.
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One more thing, with the suggestion I made....just so its clear. Allowing a survivor to DC without penalty, Im talking about the third survivor, the other 2 survivors would need to be dead. Thats what 4k slugging is. Just clarifying, just incase.
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I think you need to play killer more...You seem to lack an understanding with killers in general, just by reading some of your posts. And keep in mind that all killers pain points are different and balancing around just "killer" is oversimplifying at best, and hurts balancing, because all killers have different ranks, abilities, and weaknesses. Balancing is very delicate in this game. Not to mention all players have different skill levels. Again....YES, there is ABSOLUTELY good reason to slug before end game in certain situations, and its actually end game slugging for the 4k that can become problematic. If your team doesn't pick you up during the match, then thats on them, if you dont have unbreakable, thats unlucky, and if the killer slugged you and camped you before end game collapse...he may think he owned someone....but hes about to lose all the gens or the last gens.... So I dont see a problem with slugging in general, you say you dont either, but you clearly do because you want killers to be forced to immediately pick up.
End-game slugging can be alleviated so the 3rd survivor slugged at endgame doesn't have to wait for the game to end if they dont want to. Again...without boiled over perk, because that exploit kind of shoots itself in the foot, and I think they should wait to leave the match if the goal was to exploit not being hooked.
As for no mither, actually, I will leave a no mither on the ground if I see someone else and that person has more hooks. Its strategic. Same way I assume everyone has unbreakable....I leave people on the ground if I am chasing someone waiting for the save, i.e. flashlights, and I always assume the person on the ground may have unbreakable but downing people even if they get up, prevents people from working on gens for 26 seconds, its one of the only ways to counter swfs, especially good survivors when not using overwhelming perks or not using S tier killers. So...thats not a good example that "killers always pick up no mither and so letting people get up is the solution". As with every situation when playing killer...you have to think 7 steps ahead for everything, because you arent just dealing with just 4 perks you are dealing with 16 perks....and map variables, and 4 different player skill level variables, and 4 different item variables. So....again, over simplifying with the "they left me on the ground and they shouldnt be allowed to do that" is just not taking the whole picture into account.
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@Revvium said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633082#Comment_3633082
Tricksters sound design was probably the best sound design that this game has ever had, trying to entice sound design bugs to remain (while unintentional) for the sake of winning? It's fine if you don't want to be immersed in this game but trying to say that Trickster saying 2 syllable phrases is "hurting your chances of finding a survivor" feels contrarian and along the lines of a hypercompetitive-only-wants-to-win-mentality. You will not always win games, so ripping the guts out of the game just kills the overall atmosphere and enjoyment.
Respectfully I'm a fan of my killers having sound depth, personality and artistic design. I don't remember ever losing a survivor because I got a voiceline while stunned, reloading, or having someone wiggle off my shoulder. and I play this game a lot and watch a ton of VODS of this character in competitive settings.
You should look into Playstation's playtesting. The passionate feedback you give would be wanted, and they pay pretty good for it. Ive done it many times. I dont know...but it just dawned on me. lol
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641469#Comment_3641469
This is a PvP game. Yes I'm trying to win. There's nothing wrong with trying to win in a PvP game.
I'm not trying to "rip the guts out of the game". I'm wanting this character to be as good as he can be, for actually winning games. Yes this is a valid viewpoint.
Yes but our point is that you are trying to prevent something that gives enjoyment and soul to the overall character, not touch his basekit, at the 1% chance it give you an advantage. And thats why we are saying this.
I would watch vods of competitive Trickster Mains then. Maybe ask Wacek if he ever felt the sound got in his way of his 252 winstreak....as 4.4 Trickster. It didn't seem that he had issues with winning when Tricksters sounds were present. And Revvium here has been playing Trickster so long, that he can listen to music while playing him and still win. I cant do that, because Im still learning and inexperienced, so I need to focus when playing Trickster, because I'm in experienced. But for me, no immersion is soul-sucking and voicelines and sfx depth with this character are what made me and many Trickster Mains I know fall in love with this character. Hell you can even hear Otz excitement when this character came out, and when he heard him laugh. It was an overall feel of the character. So yes everybody's opinion is valid, but maybe your opinion is coming from an angle that you dont realize is the issue. Maybe as you go and learn, you will be able to predict survivor movement and wont feel you need any and every advantage to get the wins with Trickster. Cause you could always get wins and do well with this character even as 4.4, you just needed experience to do so. But even if you dont have the experience, and lose a lot, most people love this character, for the feel of playing him not because hes a winner. We all played him as 4.4 Trickster, some played the original launch Trickster...lol, you had to love more about him than wins cause if that was the case...why didn't we just learn and main Blight, or Nurse then?
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@StarstruckFrog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641143#Comment_3641143
Oh cool, I'll have to find it sometime. Thanks for letting me know, Revvium seems nice.
Yeah Revvium is a cool dude. Very passionate about Trickster...well, I guess we all are huh.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
@FreeKnives What do you think in regards to Kate’s post. Should killers be severely punished for sluggin?
I will and always be adamant on this. Incentive is always better than limitation. I don't like when killers slug for a 4k, but I would not say to remove the ability to slug, thats absurd, because its a bandaid on a bigger problem that will cause more problems and frustrations for killers. And what survivor mains who dont play killer, dont realize, is how frustrating playing killer can be, which is why they would never play killer seriously. Lets look at the reasons people slug other than being toxic, because in that situation you can tell when someone is doing that.
- Rank Reset. Killers trying desperately to get the BP from iri. Same way Survivors play in swfs, coms, and meta perks to gen rush and get iri during rank reset. Its a bloodbath. Cause soloq is hard, so killers use slugging strategically against swfs altruism, and it can make for very exciting games honestly. Its a meta fest but in high mmr, it already is even without rank reset.
- Based on the survivors track record or behavior during that match, of constant attempts to save, sabo, or body block, the killer can expect someone is nearby anytime someone is downed, and will leave the third on the ground to do a sweep around them.
- The killer spots the 4th survivor, and goes for the 4th while third is down. This is at the killers own risk because that survivor could have unbreakable. And yes that can result in that person opening the gate, or healing so they can take a hit or rescue the 4th person. Its happened. I have seen very clever survivors who use slugging against the killer and honestly well played.
- That person slugged knows the boiled over exploit spots on the map, and keeps returning to that spot so they cant be hooked. If you have boiled over and run to these spots, you honestly asked to be left slugged. The killer cant hook you.
Now when a killer doesn't have the above reasons, and has no idea where the 4th is, and/or isn't even looking for the 4th survivor, then yes, that is pretty rude to the player slugged.
But you can't punish killers for slugging without pin pointing the cause and if you cant fix all those causes then you can't do a blanket fix for the specific instance a killer is being toxic or having an ego trip.
You could make it an option for the 3rd survivor to DC (if they dont have boiled over) without punishment if the killer is in range for a certain amount of time, but keep in mind I have seen where slugging for the 4k backfired on a killer. Because a person will know better what to do if they are picked up to help that 4th teammate, a bot won't. On the other hand if the 4th survivor sees the person DC'd they know that survivors body is being camped and can stay hidden or go for gate. So that is the best thing you can do without adding unnecessary limitations to killers, especially because you would be punishing killers who dont slug to be toxic, but use it strategically and in some cases to counter-boiled over exploits.
But at least they can leave and not feel trapped, and they can get their blood points and let the game continue with a bot on the ground.
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@NaveR said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640988#Comment_3640988
Can I pm you so that I get updated?
Yes of course! Unfortunately, we have to move Trickster customs to next weekend. Hopefully, more people can join that way anyway with more notice. I'll update it in my Twitch schedule as well, but feel free to pm.
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He is in a better spot than the previous update. I wouldn't say hes better than 4.4, just easier to use than 4.4. Which over time can feel less rewarding...More so for PC. Because at least for console, we still have the inherent difficulty of joystick to chase mastering. Something to work towards. He is held together by 15s decay meter for sure. Could he feel better? Yeah. But no matter what is done or left alone, the complaints coming from survivors could be figured out without nerfing him or reworking. He could use fixes to survivor hud with laceration meter and that can even be improved to help survivors understand what his power does, which could lead to better counterplay without touching Trickster himself. In fact, if survivors could do better counterplay by knowledge alone the fear of him being strong wouldn't be such over-exaggerated fear. Maybe thats hand holding but I prefer that to nerfing him or making him m1 leaning. His animations that had sfx, like knives, and Main Event, that he had before getting lost to the ether, could act as cues as well as quality of life to his overall feeling. Very subtle not obnoxious sfx. Why is so much of his sound and animation broken in the first place anyway? He could feel a lot better and I can say that these changes could help balancing without worrying about things getting worse, because these things dont affect his basekit.
For me, 4.6 really doesn't do what I thought it would. Maybe the map changes are infact the reason for updating him, IDK. It does feel like in many situations that you gained map pressure with 4.6, you lost the lethality of his power which was also overall pressure....and I think thats why he doesn't "feel" good to people asking for revert Trickster. It doesn't mean this version is bad, or that 4.4 couldn't have been improved, its that something is lacking currently that 4.4 had. He was well-designed as 4.4, but maybe needed updating because of meta perks and broken chain loops. But...maybe those things should have been addressed in other ways outside of Trickster...
I agree. Hes fine. I really dont mind this Trickster, but he is still lacking in something that is hard to articulate without leading to "just change this" "change that" Because you cant just change this or that without adjusting everything else. And thats delicate. It's pretty complex with Trickster, and thats what makes him so unique. You may be concerned because the update fumble, but they did come up with this character in the first place, the same team that brought the bad update also made 4.4 Trickster and a not so bad 4.6 Trickster. So hopefully, Mandy means it, they are thinking on it and hes not on the back burner.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641092#Comment_3641092
People aren’t sending out new ideas though. People just keep asking for the rework to be reverted.
Sadako’s rework was partially reverted for the sake of survivors. Every single part of her rework was designed to make it more difficult for survivors to get condemn killed. Global condemn was reverted for the survivors…. not for the Sadako players.
So there’s no pressing reason to revert Trickster’s rework. The complaints about him being unfair for survivors, is pretty much where it was before then rework. He’s still “a worse Huntress” for just about everything except camping a hook in a dead zone when 2-3 survivors are trying to swarm the hook for a save. So there isn’t much of a reason to have mass complaints about him being too powerful currently.
He feels more or less the same, just different, in terms of strength. Its like his weaknesses and strengths shifted to other areas. You said that people who enjoy Trickster now still admit he was more fun then...Yeah thats not wrong. Hes missing some of his flair and attraction from before. The reason may vary slightly from person to person. I miss when his audio and animation worked and was synced properly, I miss the ramping. I miss his no reload playstyle as a carrot to chase....and miss that he was high-risk high reward. To some extent, again its like things shifted, he still requires skill but not as much in some areas. Yeah he is easier to use now, he can get downs faster now, which helps when you have gens popping faster than expected...and for console, I would say that my carrot I chase, is still there but there is no reward ingame for it. I.e. No reload from DTC. The carrot I chase now is working towards "PC smooth aim" with controller, but I would have strived for that with previous Trickster too. But no recoil does help. PC might not feel as rewarding now though. And thats unfortunate. The only thing I ever asked for was no recoil, and 4.6.... but 4.6 wasn't because I was on controller, it was a bigger problem that I had yet to grasp... it was some of the survivor perks, some of which have been nerfed since. Which leads to even bigger problems, balancing with perks in general. So if I had realized that this was bigger than just Trickster issue, I may have not thought 4.6 was the solution for Trickster, if I had known what I know today about Trickster. That said it helps with tight loops, but so can current PC addon (if you dont miss). I still enjoy him but he still feels like something is missing that 4.4 had.
I always say incentive is better than limitation when trying to correct an unwanted behavior. Im not sure what exactly Behavior is trying to correct or prevent with the reworks when it comes to Trickster...whether camping or tunneling. The whole time I assumed this was all meant to be a buff...and learned it really wasn't when the update happened after PTB (laceration decay was 10s). It would be nice if BHVR was more clear like they wrote on Sadakos update after PTB, whether they are wrong or right, in why they made certain changes. We were made to believe the rework was to be a buff, but a lot of tweaks would say it was to add limitation, so just understanding and having clearer dialogue with the thought process to changes would be nice.
Survivors that say Trickster 's "spam" lack the understanding of his power. Throwing knives in general, is "spam" to them. To me missing knives and continuing to throw mindlesslessly is spam. Basically wasting knives. A lot of survivor frustration could be alleviated by UI changes to help survivors understand Trickster's power and laceration fall off, rather than nerfs and limitations. You could even, dare I say "buff" his basekit, if more survivors stopped DC'ing and actually started using counterplay that they learned. Ultimately you have to buff a killer if counterplay is becoming too easy. I used to think survivors didn't want to learn counterplay, that they were lazy about it, but it dawned me, this game doesn't quite help people learn anything....There is so much to learn...lol its on the community to teach other, but UI and making sure things work properly, is a good start to helping us help each other. Maybe better tips acquired from top killer mains, in the loading screen for survivors....Just throwing more ideas out...into the unpinned forum void. But BHVR needs input, they cant function without player input. So I doubt they willingly dont listen. Maybe they think they have it all figured out already? At the same time...Nobody who develops games has the same amount of time a player can devote into said game, so a developer will never have the experience to fine tune their own game by their own experience. Unless you are Yoshi P, from Final Fantasy 14. Then yes, you can trust he knows cause he somehow has the time to play an mmo, but even he has to take player considerations into account cause its impossible to know what the community knows collectively.
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I am also curious about this watch list. The original Trickster Feedback page has 7 pages and Im sure will grow more. Why wouldn't that be on the watch list to continue to monitor and get insight from Trickster mains?
We may not all agree on specifics, but we can agree that we all want BHVR to keep an eye on that forum and hear us all out.
Mandy herself said they have not forgotten about Trickster, but did not have a timeline.
I dont know if its Killa Whale's Paradox of loving DBD video that has me feeling pessimistic .... but it started to make me nervous on whether or not they were actually considering this or if it is on the back burner to make way for something new instead... I have no reason to doubt Mandy, but I just want to hear a little more.
BTW Starstruck,
Revvium added a visual representation to the initial idea you posted about better indicators for survivors when it comes to the laceration meter without harming the Trickster reliance on decay. This version Trickster is literally held together by his decay meter, which is why I was wary of your suggestion before. But it makes sense now. You should take a look at that. Its in the original forum.
I also took a lot of time (A lOT) to clip and show many audio and visual bugs some of which affect balancing. Not just quality of life but would be nice if thats considered too. Im not even talking new ideas, I'm talking fixing things and bringing things back that exist on back up Im sure.
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@NaveR said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640693#Comment_3640693
Have you decided on the time yet?
Hopefully.... 3 pm EST. If everything works out. But it will probably go on throughout the night, cause usually we have to have a queue line for joining when all the Trickster mains I know are present, and I want everybody to get a chance to practice Trickster or go against him. Im starting early so that EU people can join if they want to.
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@SlowLoris said:
I'm so amazed we're at a point where survivors are begging for killers to be forced to M1 all the time. The reason killers have unique powers is so they can use them. Each power has a different counter play that you have to learn. M1 is supposed to be a back up if the survivor is counter playing PERFECTLY and you need pressure on them.
Examples:
Someone running around a large rock with Huntress. How do you get them to move? You m1 them.
Someone repeatedly vaulting T&L as Bubba, you m1 them to make them leave if you aren't able to get the chainsaw down.
Someone pre-drops safely and is very unpredictable, or knows tiles that have bad collision when versing you as Billy? You M1. In the vast majority of these games, I have not experienced people do this at all. I've had maybe 5 survivors since his buff that do this and you know what? I have to M1 them or leave them, because the chase is taking too long. Crazy, I know.
Killers are supposed to use their power as their main attack, so please stop trying to get Billy nerfed to where he's constantly forced to M1. Billy is massively reliant on map RNG / Collision and survivor mistakes. Once you understand proper counter play it is MUCH harder for Billy to get a down with his saw and he'll force you away from rough tiles by M1ing you.
The unfortunate truth is, because the massive amount of anti-loop killers we've had over the last few years, people have gotten complacent with just pre-drop + shift w winning the chase for them. Billy is from before this worked against most killers and having him buffed is showing you that he is the type of killer you cannot do this against, but you haven't learned that.
I'm not even shaming skill level here, I'm simply explaining, you need to adapt. What works against the majority of the roster does not work against Billy, but he has ample counter play when you do learn how to verse him.
I will repeat once again, miss recovery after LoPro when paired with Thompson's mix is overtuned, and so are double stack recovery add-ons. You're not seeing Billy players run those, because they want something OP, they're running them for two reasons.
- They made the majority of his add-ons boring/useless (Billy players begged to have the add-ons looked at on the PTB, so we could keep variety, since the point of this rework was to make him feel better and not tied to two sets of add-ons.)
- Removing the movement after bonking (even if slow) makes that + his new stun animation feel pretty bad, so the recovery add-ons make up for how bad that feels overall. Even if it's not FOR THIS, it makes him feel less like a slap to the face when you bonk, because you know if you don't bonk, you aren't as hard punished. Re-adding the movement + no camera lock after bonking, then nerfing recovery add-ons / the way they effect LoPro would make him feel MUCH better for both sides.
Since his creation Billy has been a killer with massive map-wide mobility and strong chase potential IF THE SURVIVOR MESSES UP. Unfortunately, when he was nerfed into the ground it left even the most skilled Billy players unable to punish survivor mistakes a lot of the time, because of how stacked maps are now. The map design for Billy has been such a rough thing, because over the years maps have gotten MUCH safer, and his nerf became EVEN MORE painful. This buff allows him to actually play maps now without being tied to the same add-ons permanently.
Besides his add-ons, it is just VERY CLEAR most of you do not understand how to verse Billy, since he was almost non-existent and you need time to learn. He requires patience in chase and not just pre-drop + shift w, or he will punish you for it. Chainsaw in Overdrive IS VERY HARD to control, so be unpredictable. Pre-drop and avoid a LoPro hit by not being next to the pallet after it's dropped. If there are a lot of obstacles between you and Billy, you can pretend to play a tile and LEAVE, this will make him waste a lot of time trying to mind game for an instant down. THERE IS A LOT OF COUNTER PLAY, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW IT, YET! Not to mention the fact that still in 2024, you can crouch tech Billy, which is crazy - just, the majority of you have no idea how that works.
You know things are bad when the Legion main comes to the Billy thread to defend him.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640054#Comment_3640054
"I'm so amazed we're at a point where survivors are begging for killers to be forced to M1 all the time....."
I want to high-five you. I will just stand up and clap instead..... SO ON POINT.
Makes me think of BHVR's words at Trickster PTB... "you know whats better than throwing knives, throwing more knives" was them being excited about a killers power and encouraging the killer to use their power...before those words were removed in the update. Because it was the opposite in reality.
I know little to nothing about Billy except going against him mainly. But I can say old Billy was boring to go against, and I think because he had so much counterplay against him.
I went up against two Billy's last night. First time with new Billy. I died, and I had fun. Second time I could have gotten out, but I did the watch-me-leave thing at gate and learned a valuable lesson, that he moves really fast with that chainsaw LOL. I love going against new Billy. Its exciting. So much personality from the Billy Mains too.
This can apply to Killer mains, but when it comes to being the loudest and slower at getting their balancing changes...Survivors do have more weight. So survivors who only play survivor really should be encouraged to play more killer more often. Many do a challenge and then farm the rest of the match, which doesn't help them understand the pain points of different killers. So much of their complaints is not understanding the killer they complain about, the role or their power.
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@Revvium said:
I thought I would also take a second to break down VISUALLY exactly what I find as a missed opportunity with Laceration meter decay and what gives so much negative feedback on a system that could be elaborated on without TOO MUCH WORK.
Video of my visual description: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2050469846
BHVR please consider that this meter could be changed without any unwanted balance problems on the side of Trickster or the survivors, QOL is the name of the game with the figuring out of what can be done. I want to do my best to elaborate on how to play against Trickster without removing the guts of this character.
The big problem that this would solve is the misunderstanding of "Dodging knives" as opposed to breaking "line of sight" I acknowledge that Killers aren't going to be super known about in all cases but I believe a utilization of visuals that shows survivors when they are doing the correct thing more clearly would give a better "evergreen" experience for people who might not understand how EXACTLY the knives work.
This is accompanied by a bugfix to the laceration screen effect on survivors end, but also has design implications talking about WHEN Tricksters meter goes down, as well as how long it takes to reach 0 after the decay begins. Thanks!
BHVR, to go along with this...there are quite a few BUZZWORDS that people are not articulating well and I am afraid will be misinterpreted. For example "spamming". A lot of people dont understand Tricksters power or how to counter it. So what Rev is suggesting is not about nerfing or taking time away from laceration decay overall, hell you can add to the time to decay overall, if there is meaningful feedback a survivor can use to counter like what Rev is suggesting.
His Main Event being called spamming concerns me, which people dont understand that is his snap pressure, one in which he needs. Especially to deal with shack, and strong tiles. They say spamming, but its really his insta down thats not instant it. Its his Overdrive, his rush, or iri hatchet, that can down you very quickly but not as quick as other killers with one shot. It still provides people with an opportunity to get away, while being still lethal enough to be a "special" power. So when people say spamming I think they are lacking understanding in how Trickster works in general. Which is why I urge you to take a look at the Audio and sfx bugs/feedback I reported. Some of those subtle things like Laceration lines appearing one at a time and falling off one at time, on the survivor hud is crucial feedback for the survivor and can even be improved like Rev said. Hearing his knives that feint subtle whoosing through the air, can tell a survivor hey...this guy is missing a lot, without having to look behind them. Main Event with its distinct reverb that it had before, was an indicator in itself. Subtle, and not obnoxious either but distinct. So fixing Tricksters audio is important for balancing not just quality of life for the Trickster main. You can give indicators to survivors and that wouldn't hurt the Tricksters ability to remain lethal. For other complaints about Trickster from survivors, like how Trickster mains play ruthlessly, honestly, Trickster basekit being strong, is what alleviates the pressure to play the way survivors complain about. But survivors panic when they hear "buff" and dont realize that is to make it so the killer doesn't feel they are locked into certain perks and a set way to play. This isn't just a Trickster issue though Im sure you are aware.
I also think that there is a reason we pick Trickster and not any other character. Everybody who mained him before his recent PTB did not pick him because he was the strongest character or because we cared about winning. We would learn Blight or Nurse then. We picked him because of this character's feel, how it feels to play him, how exciting it is...that includes things like audio and animation bug fixes....that includes his Main Event feeling like a Main Event. The heart and soul is his knives, his flair, and because he was challenging and rewarding character to learn. 4.4 Trickster definitely had that despite frustrations. 4.6 version is easier to use yes...but he is missing something 4.4 had. So making sure that changes stay true to the character and what we love about him is important. Understanding what we love about him is important.
Just wanted to say that since Mandy mentioned they haven't forgotten about Trickster and were still considering things about him.
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@KateMain86 said:
The problem I see and have with so many of the killer's we've gotten in the past year or so is that they aren't fun to engage with. When a killer can spam their power endlessly and down you with it especially at range then that isn't going to be a very fun experience. Survivors should have engagements with killers that involve more than just running to the nearest wall to block the killer's power for a moment. Lately its just overtuned killers that turn survivor chases into a slaughterfest.
Throwing around the word spam is becoming quite the popular buzzword, not just from you. And to be honest I doubt we agree on what spam is...Maybe baby Tricksters. Maybe you are in low mmr. Im not sure. I know some Tricksters that haven't gotten good with aiming will spam....but they run out of knives quickly and good survivors make fools of them. Ive watched a very good Huntress main and content creator miss 20 or more knives on one survivor.... Some survivors consider Main Event spamming, not even realizing that is his special power. It's his "Chainsaw" or his "rush", and it takes some skill to know when to pop it now because it's so short. Again, good survivors know how to make a Trickster waste it. Did you watch the video Revvium posted? Showcasing a Trickster main partied with other good survivors and a good random, going against a good Trickster. I encourage you to do so if you haven't. And thats on EU where everything is supposedly more sweatier.
I am going to try and have Trickster community customs night on Twitch, if there is enough people. On Saturday. I welcome anyone including people who just want to play survivor to join. If you want to join, again offer still stands to help you learn to counter him. Learn about Trickster. Or even try him yourself.
I understand that in your opinion this killer, and apparently, Billy too (you mentioned him in another forum) aren't fun. Im telling you...nerfing killers is what causes them to feel powerless to play with anything other than meta, use unfun tactics to win, and make them robotic and unfun to main. It doesn't help to nerf killers when survivors can't figure out how to counter them. What could help survivors is better indicators and Trickster's audio fixed, including his laceration lines on the survivor hud, but thats in another forum. Ive addressed that in a Tricksters Forum and bug report, maybe BHVR will take a look.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640528#Comment_3640528
You can post all you want that’s fine respectfully but it’s survivors similar to you that damp a killers power because you don’t know how to counter them or bother to learn it. I urge you instead of posting on the forums learn first, adapt. It’s been 24 hours since release..
but somehow that’s the killer fault. After three years, you should know better.
you were just complaining about trickster and now you’re complaining about Billy. @FreeKnives and here we go again.
Nerf Billy....already? Honestly, they have been in a bad spot for a long time....Let BHVR cook....Let Billy breathe....
Maybe they should have a mode for casual players with no BP, no rank, no gens...just about you and the killer and the engagement. IDk. I hear prop hunt is fun. But like Mech said he's only been out for 24 hours....and Im sure good survivors will start to figure him out, if they havent already and counter him as they always do, given time to learn the right counterplay.
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@LeGranEmi said:
Do they really complain about him? He's in a good position but he's still weak. Just learn to play against moving from side to side. It still works but it seems like you don't know how to do it. Also, if you want him not to hit you, play in high loops in 80 percent of the maps. He has these structures
Yeah, Revvium gave them a video of a good example. Im even offering to take them into a custom.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
Trickster is still a B- tier killer. https://youtu.be/28Pgh-K2NjE?t=68
Yeah. I would argue C+ in most Tricksters hands, but hes not close to A or S tier by any means. Maybe he should be... Hes too complicated to not be strong enough to go against people who are skillful survivors. If that makes sense. I dont care if he is S tier or C tier. I just care about whether or not he is fun to use and the experience I have with using his main event and power. I enjoyed playing him even as 4.4 Trickster. I just enjoy this character. So I really hope they focus on this characters feel and flair, and how it feels to use his knives and the reward for using them. Lets be honest, you dont pick maining Trickster if all you care about is winning. You'd pick learning Nurse or Blight if you did.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640220#Comment_3640220
It didn’t delete anything? I still see your original post.
Its cause I have been burned before by editing my posts LOL
I just copied and pasted it when it deleted. The problem is trying to post it the second time, it gives an error and then the third attempt get flagged by spam filter.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640236#Comment_3640236
I mean that’s fair, but it’s the only tactic that seems to work for me just fine lol.
I understand it won’t work for everyone it’s not gonna work for every trickster based upon their skill level but it’s likely something that Kate hasn’t tried and it may help her a little bit, let’s be honest weaving back-and-forth left to right like on Fortnite is not gonna cut it lol.
Definitely, if you are out of position, definitely try, it may work. I just dont want survivors to choose run into the killer rather than taking the injure and get to a safe tile if they are in a bad spot. I see so many survivors do that and I end up scratching my head like, what just happened. Makes for good content though....
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@EQWashu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640220#Comment_3640220
Nothing was deleted, as noted above.
We do have a Spam Filter on the Forum that will often catch messages from newer members, those with lower post counts, or those that make frequent edits. When these occur, we have to permit them manually until the user has a certain amount of posts, and they won't have to worry about the Spam Filter catching things after that.
It did get deleted the first time. Unfortunately when you go to edit, if you didn't copy the entire thing before hitting save comment, the whole thing can get deleted. Its happen to others in another forum as well. They had to retype everything from memory. So I learned to save the whole thing before hitting save comment just incase. I posted it again, and got a mismatch error, and it wouldn't post, so I attempted again, and then thats when the spam filter activates. Which is where you came in.
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640073#Comment_3640073
Survivor movement in DBD doesn't really support the idea of dodging an attack like this. You'll have a few knives fly past you because the killer is spamming them, but from a distance this killer can still down you very fast. Moving left and right while running from this killer is not a viable dodge strategy.
If you are out of position for any long-range killer with decent aim, you are going to go down. Does that mean they should be nerfed?
Can you say without a doubt, there was nothing you could have done better?
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640101#Comment_3640101
I’m not entirely sure to be honest, my friend, truthfully, I don’t play this killer hardly at all. I can only tell my experience based off as a survivor when I’ve gone against him.
before he was reworked, I could loop him for days, it was really easy. In his current state I can loop him for a little bit, but not nearly as long. (to be fair though I don’t use windows or any exhaustion perks. I’m a healer when I play Survivor.)
This is also true, what Mech said here. Mech used to loop me for days in custom matches when I was learning or when I was 4.4 Trickster. I've given tips to Mech for looping new trickster that has helped him too.
Actually Mech is quite familiar with versing Tricksters as he is friends with 3 Trickster Mains and would have to suffer 3 Trickster matches back to back in our customs all the time :). We would lose a lot actually.
We still do these matches on occasion. I still hold Trickster custom matches to help people learn how to play Trickster in a controlled environment, I know Endzej does on occasion. You could look either of us up on Twitch. Revvium who has also posted here would be happy to go over Trickster counterplay, hes also on Twitch. So even if you just wanted to learn how to verse a Trickster you could just play survivor in one of those custom matches, or go and find Trickster main on Twitch and talk to them, ask them questions. Here's a list of some that will be very knowledgeable on this character and have broken down this character into a science: Wacek134, Ayano_hm, Endzej, Revvium, Littleruguaard, Knifyyy36, Geugjigo
The answer isn't nerf, its better understanding.
(Which is why Im baffled by no updates or optimization for custom lobbies, they are so useful....)
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640114#Comment_3640114
Agreed. You need to toy with his FOV, obstacles are a must.
This is true for newer Trickster mains, and can be true for controller or console Tricksters...I would be wary of suggesting it to people, because you wont always be able to tell if someone is on controller or how new they are. I know 1 Trickster main on controller you cant even tell hes not on MnK. Hes that good. And even with me...I will just back up and continue throwing knives at you, and if I dont feel like practicing with knives, I'll bonk you with a bat. So if you are stuck and in a dead zone or caught in the open, definitely do this. Mess with FOV, but dont forget we have shadowborn baskit now.... And I see this all the time and laugh, DO NOT run back into a Trickster trying to mess with FOV if you could have made it to an LOS blocker, or tile. Even if you take the injure getting to an LOS blocker or tile, thats better to be injured in a tile, than in the open in Tricksters Face healthy. LOL
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I hate these forums. It always deletes what I say if I go into edit mode.
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Listen. I am sure that you really believe he is too powerful…I can assure you though the average Trickster is not and plenty counterable. I’ll go into detail later why, and it may even help you understand how to counter him and why this statement is so off and irresponsible to say “he needs to be changed because you cant counter him”, rather than making a forum to ask “how to counter him….”
I am a decent Trickster, and if you make mistakes, I will jump on them so fast, your head will spin, because I know my killer is not S tier, my aim is only decent, and if I don’t capitalize on your mistakes…it can cost me the entire match. And most people are running second chance perks anyway so I need to play for pressure at the start. But heres what you can do as a survivor that I guarantee you aren’t doing:
1. Using LOS breakers, 2. Watching your laceration meter 3. Understanding your killer's power 4. Looking behind you and infront of you. I’ll elaborate:
1. LOS Breakers.
Paying attention to whats around you. Someone designed that rock, that tile… that tree. And If you are not already in a bad position…look where trickster is, and then use Line of sight blockers in your path, in the direction of a safer area. Weave while you are doing it.
2. Watch your laceration meter.
BHVR made a hud to help you. If the Trickster is missing a lot, and they are on you, you’ll notice the meter is rising slower and you will hear the collision of the blades on impact of something (Hopefully behavior fixes Tricksters audio and sfx) and you might even hear Tricksters blades flying through the air, which will tell you hey hes missing, maybe I can make it to another tile. Or this area is safe to waste his time. If the laceration meter is going fast a few at a time and you don’t hear any misses…hes probably good with aim. Best thing to do if you are out of position is take him away, go down strategically, on a pallet or in an open area, hope for a save. If you are really good and you are about to turn a corner around something, dead hard the last knife.
3. Understanding your opponent.
Im guilty of this, though I don’t go on forums to call for nerfs… But I don’t know each killers power or how they work and it can cost matches because of that (my poor teammates). With Trickster…it takes 8 Knives to main event. So you need to pay attention to your lacerations, and count to 8. If they hit you or anyone around you accumulatively to 8 times…They have main event. You need to be at or near a tile….you can use your endurance but if you are out of position then you are going to go down. It doesn’t matter if its knives, a chainsaw, a dashing killer, if you are out of position you are going to go down. Period.
4. Looking behnd you and running in a straight line.
Look behind you to see which knife in which hand he is throwing, and weaving in a pattern that makes him miss. This will take practice, and skill to learn. Don’t expect to be an expert right away. But with the average Trickster it wont matter, try to make him miss as many knives as possible. Stop running in a straight line. You may go down anyway, cause not every Trickster is adamant about using the knives you hate so much….Trust. There are some Trickster players who are happy to go along with your idea of nerfs and make him more m1 style, and then…they will just bonk you with a bat, and you will have no chance. But most tricksters, you should be happy they have egos about using knives….because you could be in their face weaving and they will actually spend 30 seconds to 1 minute to try and practice using knives. So be happy about the knives. I am one of those to a point. Unless Im already behind on hook stages, then practice with knives starts to become less priority and after the match I feel bad because I didn’t use my knives mostly.
Anyway. Those are my tips.
I do run into survivors like you on occasion and they say the similar things. They either DC, stand by hook, or quit at the very first down.....they come into my chat and say "sorry, I hate this killer, or this killer should be deleted, or shame me for enjoying this killer" Sometimes they are nice and just say I just dont like the killer but gg lol. Not saying you've done that but its in the same family of reasoning...because they dont know how to counter or dont want to learn.
If you are willing to learn, and practice, you can counter this killer like any other. Not everyone is going to figure things out on their own. Thats okay. Thats why there are thousands of "how to loop" videos and hundreds of survivor streamers. So I am more than willing to help you.
But it is so incredibly frustrating to hear survivors say things like “change Trickster, nerf Trickster” when our weaknesses are right there in front of them, and good survivors already have it figured out and use it effectively in our pub matches. It's even more frustrating when Devs listen to people who haven't learned the counter play or listen to content creators who just hate this character flat out, and want to see them out the game or nerfed to the ground.
Trickster is high C tier, maybe A in 2 hands, S in only 1 persons hands that you probably will never meet, that I know of (thousands of hours on him). I'd say hes weaker where he was weak before and stronger in some areas than before, so it kind of makes him more or less the same rank. His power has changed to make him friendlier to use though to whom BHVR was targeting I'm not sure. Which took some of the things we enjoyed away but also some of the frustrations away. But he still thankfully takes skill to master. He also thankfully takes unique ways of thinking to go against. He is hella fun to go against when you know what not to do. Very intense matches, that are not the usual m1 killer gameplay, but fun no less. I go against more Tricksters than most of the survivors who say hes “too powerful” do. And I play Leon, so you know Im not that great of a survivor (no offense to fellow Leons).
I also am willing to take you into a custom and teach you how to counter this killer. But making a post like this that reads as:
"I dont know how to counter this killer so, therefore, he needs a nerf or gutted" is just…something else.
And thats really unfair to all the Trickster mains who have painstakingly taken the time to learn him despite him being a C tier killer. Especially with Trickster being in a situation where the Devs are missing the mark on killer adjustments, because they are taking complaints like this at face value.
Bottom line is…. The reason you feel he is too strong is because he shoots more than one projectile. It takes 16 knives to down someone. Not one hatchet, not one spear attached to a chain that leads to an m1, not one dash into you….16 KNIVES! Trust me, that’s a lot, for the average Trickster. Have you tried him? Playing him might help you learn how to counter honestly.
You feel the pressure of “gotta do something, lacerations are building…OMG im going to go down, what do I do!” and think…hes not counterable because you inevitably did go down 16 knives later….when that actually buys you time…having to throw multiple projectiles…. buys YOUR team TIME. 16 knives per person, 4 times, and then if they have second chance or endurance perks… Hello he has 44 knives…..Making Main Event(ME) crucial to using him. And even his ME has a long cooldown that gives you another chance to make it to that rock, object or tile. IF he was out of knives when he started ME guess what he has to reload. BUYING MORE TIME.
The point of looping any killer is buying TIME. So in essence, Trickster is inherently weaker and more counterable now BY USING HIS KNIVES. Making him inherently weaker than say Huntress, and yet where are the forums to demand her nerf?
So making him fun, challenging, and strong enough for Trickster mains to play him, is what keeps us playing him….If you take the things mains love about this character away…like value and reward in throwing knives…..the character dies. I don’t want to be an m1 killer….I love throwing knives. I would rather throw knives even if it costs the match (sometimes it does).
Forgive me…but your post is so inconsiderate because it doesn’t take into account the whole picture and you haven’t taken the time to understand your opponent either. The reason you don’t like going against Trickster, as it would seem, is Tricksters knives, basically the heart and soul of the character. BUt really its about the knives pressure on you. That is what Trickster is all about…gradual pressure. With other killers once they hit you its over. No pressure, no need to fight for survival accept your fate, maybe it wasn’t your fault maybe you got sandbagged. But usually you messed up and you are down, quick and simple is the m1 one way. With Trickster you don’t go down immediately and have to buy your team time, you have to think about where you are, and what you are doing, taking more focus. With Trickster everybody on that team needs to pull their weight and keep him busy if he finds you, even if its just 5 seconds, that’s good enough, eventually it will be more, and it adds up. Personally, I find that so fun and unique, and each time I go against a Trickster I learn a little more and last a little more. Sometimes I outrun them altogether. Trickster is so unique I actually am a little surprised that BHVR came up with him. It causes me to pause actually at how creative this killer is.
I don’t know half the roster of killers power, or understand them. I hate going against Knight and Clown, because I feel I cant do anything, but I would NEVER make a post on a forum asking BHVR to gut them, change them, or nerf them…because I know I don’t know how to counter them and that’s on me.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633010#Comment_3633010
I'd much rather have the current Trickster's sounds, than previous Trickster's sounds. I absolutely hate hate hate when killers have loud noises, that make it difficult to hear survivor noises, and previous Trickster was all that.
It's bad enough we have to suffer through purposely loud chase music, and purposely bad sound occlusion. I don't want to hear killers make unnecessary noises, that might make it more difficult to hear other nearby survivors that might be running around with flashlights or flashbangs. Or if survivors break line of sight while a knife is in the air, I don't want Trickster (or his knives) to make unnecessary noises that might make it more difficult to hear where the survivor is going after they break line of sight.
If I have to choose between "killer immersion" and "being able to hear survivors that aren't in line of sight", then I'm absolutely choosing "being able to hear survivors that aren't in line of sight".
So no voice lines, and no feedback loop for you? I mean I guess, but I'm also not asking for anything crazy like flashbang noises lol. We are talking about fixing his voicelines, syncing animation, and feedback sfx. If you need to hear where survivors are and you are in the middle of Main Event....I would say maybe you are using Main Event too early? If you dont see them right in front of you and need to hear where they are.... I cant think of any reason why you need it quiet to hear a survivor while using Main Event. Also the Reverb wasn't loud...it was subtle and eerie.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3635029#Comment_3635029
Anything that adds extra noises, or more variable noises, is a nerf, because it makes it more difficult to hear survivors that aren't in line of sight. It doesn't matter if it subtle... it's still an extra layer of noise that hides survivor noises. And I don't think killers should talk at all during a game, because that can hide survivor noises too.
I always want to be aware of any survivors that might be near the killer. Maybe I'm chasing someone, and another survivor is hiding nearby. Maybe they're hiding nearby with a flashlight, and I need to be aware someone might try to interrupt me picking a survivor up. Maybe they're just plain hiding, but they are in a worse spot than the person I'm chasing, so I might want to switch to the hiding survivor. Sound occlusion is way overtuned in this game, and can extremely muffle noises... and any sort of extra noises from Trickster might mean the difference between hearing a survivor, and not being able to hear a survivor.
Well, that sounds like a more competitive type of gameplay... I understand what you mean about some noises overturned, like the bloodweb, but thats not gameplay, or Spies of the Shadows notification being the same as an unhooking notification....but thats more of "why are all notifications the same and same volume?"..... I can't comment on your opinion being wrong or right, but you are the first person Ive heard say they'd rather Trickster be silent.
This game is still a horror game. I know it has a very competitive side, with people calling out sectors that gens are in or changing the brightness so they can see better, just to be more competitive, and I guess we can include sound in that now. Maybe you would prefer to only hear survivors breathing and footsteps nothing else, but I definitely would not like that...I think Call of Duty has an "addon" that gives the player an advantage of muting all other sounds in the game except the opponent's footsteps........Again, its not that type of game, unless you are doing comp.
Say you could adjust sounds, which Im not saying is a bad thing, but could be an extreme advantage if overturned. I have to admit playing a game purely for competitive reasons is not that appealing for me personally. I enjoy the aesthetics and feel of a game just as much as the gameplay. I enjoy the sound of blades landing on a survivor (its music practically) I enjoy Tricksters laughter when he downs more than one person (I literally laugh every time I hear him laugh that way)....and his voice lines after being stunned, when he calls someone a motherf*cker (takes the words right out of my mouth), as well as other killers voice lines too. Singularity has good ones, and Chucky is kind of funny. I love the chase music of some of these killers too, from their POV and survivor POV. Sound design is just as important as character design. IMO.
Again, it sounds like you want no immersion sound, only competitive-driven sounds...even if you weren't asking for that extreme, most of the people I know enjoy Trickster sfx and voice lines. Luckily his music isn't too loud when you are chasing someone, unlike some killers, like Ghostface. So at least there is that. I dont think it should all go away but I am sorry that it's an annoyance for you.
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This is sounding familiar. I don't play Sadako, but my friend mains her, @MechWarrior3 . He's very good with her. I know that when I versed Sadako's in pubs which was just slightly more common than versing a Trickster, as long as everybody grabbed a tape at the beginning of the match you could put a lot of pressure on a baby Sadako or even intermediate Sadako. She was strong but not impossible to deal with. If more hooking was the goal, then where is the incentive to do so? I also can't help but wonder if this is another case of survivors trying to verse each killer the exact same way, instead of doing the appropriate counterplay for that particular killer or adjusting during the match, causing misinformation and nerfs in areas that weren't needed. Im not saying that its all on the survivor mains, but the patch notes reads like Sadako mains are in trouble. lol And also agreed. PTB is not a good tester, because the queue times are horrendous, so most people dont jump in there as a swf, nor do they go in to play for "money". The real test is live pubs and even then you need to give people time to adjust and develop counter play, if they can. If they can' then you can adjust.
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The forum is deleting comments as I try to post them. So this may show up 3 times. Let me try posting it this way:
So no voice lines, and no feedback loop for you? I mean I guess, but I'm also not asking for anything crazy like flashbang noises lol. We are talking about fixing his voicelines, syncing animation, and feedback sfx. If you need to hear where survivors are and you are in the middle of Main Event....I would say maybe you are using Main Event too early? If you dont see them right in front of you and need to hear where they are.... I cant think of any reason why you need it quiet to hear a survivor while using Main Event. Also the Reverb wasn't loud...it was subtle and eerie.
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I'd also like to add....There are so so so.... many invisible wall hitboxes on different maps with different obstacles. And as a ranged killer it is incredibly frustrating to try and do certain shots and you hit an invisible wall.
Some examples:
- Macmillan Shack.....the boarded windows....the whole window is solid now....pls. It's very inconsistent and frustrating.
- Coldwind some of the obstacles like the mini tractors, I know a couple on the edge of the wall, is just a solid block of hitbox rather than taking the shape of the tractor.
- Autohaven has another one where survivors purposefully take advantage of the invisible walls, there is a tractor and a pallet, and if you hug the wall tight enough, the invisible wall will protect the survivor pretty well. There's like tires and a pallet between and the tractor and cars I think.
- On Midwich there are gaps in between the piles of monster goop, and table and chairs...I think between the tables and the goop, huge gaps but solid hitbox.
- This is a big one, hook hitboxes are ridiculously huge, and when they are on a corner of a rock or a building, and there is a huge gap between hook and the object its next to, you might shoot thinking you have a clear shot, but nope. Invisible wall.
Just going through some of the hitboxes and making them tighter would be nice for some of these obstacles. Im not asking for you to put holes in a chain link fence hitbox, but....some things are wide enough gaps that are very misleading and frustrating for range.
I could actually take screenshots of these areas too, if BHVR was interested in fixing these.