FreeKnives
FreeKnives
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@Revvium said:
Thank you for compiling this knives! I'd love to see these sound effects be reorganized and animations synced back up. Let's hope!
Yeah, No prob. The syncing of animation is important too. Qulaity of life stuff that, I think really helps make playing a character feel good.
I was talking with someone about the high pitch sounding 1 knife to injure sound effect, the blade "scream". We were thinking that maybe it was cut out, because of its frequency, just being too loud. So maybe not the exact volume, but it would be nice to hear differentiating tones more clearly for each laceration and bring back some of that cascading sound effect he had with his hits.
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@Flawless_ said:
Can I add that his footsteps sound almost exactly as of survivors'. Makes it extremely confusing in some areas especially when there's a survivor on the other side of a wall
This actually gets me sometimes, and I start mind-gaming myself thinking someone is on the other side of a wall. lol
I don't know if that comes with experience to differentiate the two, I'd have to ask more advanced Tricksters if they got past that. But you are not alone.
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Hey Trickster Community and BHVR,
So...I made another forum post. Actually 2, one to go to bug reporting, but one for open discussion, and because its feedback on the sound quality of Trickster at current versus Trickster at launch, and just an overall how I feel about the sound quality for Trickster at current. I wasn't there for Trickster's launch, but from watching videos, there's a lot that it feels we are missing out on sound-wise. I just wanted to share the comparison I did. I made some very short clips into a playlist on Youtube.
Here is the link to the Feedback and Forum post I made: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/403285/tricksters-sound-and-audio-design-the-good-the-bad-and-the-bhvr-what-is-this/p1?new=1
It shows clips for different sound designs that I think are missing or that are better. How sfx's was affected by animation and basekit changes. If you have opinions or clips of your own to show anything to do with comparing old Trickster audio and sound design to now...feel free to check the forum out and add to it. I tried to look at everything people have been complaining about.
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But, if you have clips of just audio bugs and dont really care about the sound design of old or current. I did also post a version of this post in the bug section, to focus on bugs rather than the feedback.
If you want to add to just bug-related issues and not feedback related then this is the link for that post: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/403289/current-trickster-audio-and-animation-issues-this-is-a-mixture-of-feedback-and-bug-reporting#latest
(I mentioned the wink being missing from lobby)
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623204#Comment_3623204
I don't think both styles can co-exist, because you AGAIN decided to super nerf Memento Blades, just for your own personal playstyle. You are fully aware of how many people like the current effect of Memento Blades, yet you repeatedly try to rip that addon away from us.
And the movement speed addons are important for many console players, or other people that just aren’t very good at aiming, because it allows people to try to use his M2 often, without feeling like they’re getting overly punished for trying to use his M2. Saying it “teaches bad habits” is sort of shaming people that just want to play a character that they might not be super good at. These addons lower the barrier of entry for Trickster, which is a good thing.
And the movement speed addons aren’t “taking skill away” from the killer, because the people using these addons aren’t super good at aiming, which means they are using these addons for quality of life purposes. Nerfing or reworking these addons isn’t likely to force these people to “get better” at the killer. It’s more likely it would cause these people to use his M2 much less, feel like his M2 is not worth using, and just stop playing the killer.
I think it’s important to have at least one ranged character that’s beginner friendly, because many new players have experience with FPS games, where the primary attacks involve projectiles, but before Trickster’s rework, all the projectile killers in DBD were so clunky and purposely difficult for new players, that it causes a barrier of entry problem for this game. Yes, it would be even better if BHVR could find a way to make Huntress beginner friendly, since she is a default character, but the Trickster rework was a good start.
Addons shouldnt be made with a specific platform in mind, they should be about the character and playstyle.
Although I am fine with the new version of Trickster...I think it would be a mistake, and ruin everything that is rewarding about him to think that this character should be easy. It would be a mistake to treat him like he should be the easiest of the ranged killers too. I didn't mind 4.4 version, and yeah I sucked with him when I started....but I never expected to just be good at him without practice, without time. So it baffles me when people said hes "too hard" or hes "unplayable" but dont want to put the time in either.
I dunno, I just dont see why people shy away from things that take time to master. With anything....
Some addons he has can make casual players feel better and dont have to worry about getting better at the character or putting too much time into DBD. No one should shame them for that, however, the moment a casual player or a player who doesn't want to learn how to get better with Trickster, starts complaining about losing....or starts giving opinions about how the character's base kit should be because they didnt put the time in to get better, or can't take advice from people who play this character really well....then thats different, thats not okay either. I see it all the time and its very frustrating to hear as someone who got better by just playing the character more...especially when people said he wasn't playable on console. That lead me to playing him more, just to prove to people they weren't actually trying.
Like if you dont play this game often or play Trickster much thats okay. It truly is okay to just be bad, have bad aim and play for fun. You dont need 3ks or 4ks to have fun with this character. There are other characters as well, that are purposefully made beginner-friendly. Trickster is a hard character to learn, or moderate as BHVR has listed. Thats what makes him fun.
Rant over...
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Did not mean for that to post twice....
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@StarstruckFrog said:
Hello. I’m a P100 Trickster. I’ve spent years learning the ins and outs of this character, and invested most of my DBD playtime solely to him. This post is regarding the recent Trickster rework. I’ll be attempting to thoroughly deconstruct every change, from the PTB to now, and provide in-depth and honest feedback on the entire update.
I’ve loved Trickster since his release, and was really putting in practice to get good at him starting this year. He was an incredibly nuanced, incredibly flashy, and endlessly fun character to me. He was the primary reason I got on to play the game, and unfortunately, this Trickster update has absolutely destroyed any enthusiasm for the character I had.
Many nuanced mechanics have been stripped down or removed, pointless and confusing stat changes have me relearning him every week, and his power just doesn’t feel as strong or satisfying to use as it did before. He feels like a glorified zoner with an increased focus on getting basic attacks and using Main Event, rather than just practicing and mastering how to use his knives.
Despite being highly critical of this update, I don’t mean to insult the developers behind it. I know this stuff takes time to get right, and my only hope is that in the future you will take another look at the character with this critique in mind. There will be a summary of the changes I want at the end for those who only want to skim. I hope this reaches the right people.
PRIORITY #1 - 8-KNIFE LACERATION METER
After playing with the new version more and more, I can confidently say that changing Trickster’s laceration meter capacity to 8 Knives from the previous 6 has been THE biggest tragedy of this update, and has had a direct negative impact on almost every single part of his gameplay loop.
Chasing is less fun, as having to hit at least 4 extra blades for a down compared to the old version feels dreadful. It gives survivors way more time to just run past or away from you without much threat.
Additionally, the order of the melodic sound effects that play whenever you land a blade has changed, often making me believe I’m closer to a down than I actually am, causing me to drop my knives when I shouldn’t have and provide the survivor more leeway.
Finally, the ammo economy of new Trickster is terrible. You have to use over ⅓ of your base ammo capacity just for one down, even without missing a single time. Even professional players can’t possibly hit ‘em all, so I don’t see how this is reasonable. You have to reload after every chase unless you use Main Event, whereas before a down was barely over ¼ of the base ammo capacity.
The solution isn’t to increase his ammo capacity, it’s to reduce his laceration meter back down to 6 Knives.
6-Knife meter fixes so much about this character fundamentally. It lowers chase time in more significant ways than just making him throw faster, allows for better ammo management, and it makes Main Event better too.
I think it’s also worth mentioning that 15s of Laceration Decay makes 4.6m/s Trickster very difficult to lose in chase, however the previous 10s Decay time was far too punishing for Killer, especially those on controller. I think a good middle ground is 12s, with this becoming a nice 15s Decay with the Ripper Brace add-on.
I’m very comfortable hitting my knives and feel like I can always improve enough to just hit more in whatever time is alloted, but FORCING me to hit more knives for every health state is extremely unfun.
PRIORITY #2 - THROW RATE
Let’s go back to Pre-7.4.0 Trickster for a second.
Throw Rate Growth was a mechanic where Trickster’s throw animation speed would increase for each blade he threw in rapid succession. This meant that despite his initial throw being pretty slow, you could follow this up with a flurry of blades very quickly, and it added a nice rhythm to his gameplay loop.
The reason this mechanic was so important was because it gave Trickster a way to punish Survivors very hard when they made a mistake, but it also made sure that survivors who were playing correctly had a reasonable amount of time to react to his initial windup and get behind something before too many blades could be sent their way.
This led to Trickster’s bread and butter gameplay loop. Tap-fire and chip away at a survivor’s laceration meter in tall loops, and when they mess up or are stuck out in the open for too long, mow them down with a full-auto flurry.
Removing this mechanic in favor of a completely static throwing speed has been another major killjoy for the character. Now, when a Survivor makes a mistake, they aren’t punished for it nearly as heavily, because the base fire rate isn’t fast enough to do that. Reducing the base throw rate isn’t a good option either, as this makes it so survivors get punished for the mere crime of EXISTING, and Trickster is able to throw far more knives in shorter spans of time than anybody is reasonably able to react to. This was a big problem for him on the Chucky PTB, and hasn’t been addressed reasonably since then.
With all that said, I think the best thing to do is return his throw rate to how it was before the 7.4.0 Update. 3kps (0.33s windup) base speed, with a ramp up to 4kps after 8 throws, and a further ramp-up to 5kps in main event. Here’s roughly the exact numbers from the wiki since I don’t remember them! Heck, Main Event might have even gone up to 6kps after a few throws, but I have no idea how it’s calculated. Either way works though.
PRIORITY #3 - MAIN EVENT
Main Event is having an extreme identity crisis. The previous version was more rare, only being used every now and then, but it came in handy a lot. The new version is mostly identical to the old version, but has this new tacked-on use of trickster’s combo system? And it’s way shorter? And is so frequently active that it’s basically necessary to use it in every single chase you take to compensate for the throw speed and laceration changes?
Yeah… Sorry but I think this has been a terrible part of this update too. It’s definitely one of the most baffling changes in my mind, and I think it mostly needs to be reversed.
Making Main Event such a prevalent part of Trickster’s kit only serves to devalue skill expression even more, instead relying on this entirely binary ability to get most of your downs, rather than just using the knives the way most players always have. I think the ability needs a hefty rework to its activation condition, which I’ll outline here.
- Increase Main Event Duration to 8 Seconds. Remove Combo system implementation.
- Main Event now requires 12 Blade hits to activate.
- The Main Event gauge will lose 2 Charges for any Blade you miss when Main Event is not charged or activated.
Now the ability has been reworked into a sort-of reward system for players with high accuracy. It’ll be about twice as common as the previous version for highly accurate players, but those with lower accuracy, or who take riskier shots, will have to forego the ability for much longer as a trade off.
MISCELLANEOUS THOUGHTS
Figured I’d cap off my thoughts on his basekit by just nitpicking a bit about other aspects of this update that have bothered me, starting with the change to his Terror Radius.
- Increasing his Terror Radius was a good idea, sure. But was it really all that necessary when he still has a huge Lullaby? Why does he even have a Lullaby to begin with? It’s not as if he’s good at surprise attacks, since he has to hit so many blades anyway. Just get rid of the thing already!
- The removal of the slowdown penalty was good, as it seemed to be barely functional anyway, only reaching the minimum speed after throwing 30 entire knives. Not exactly an exciting part of his kit to keep around.
- Trying to make combos anything other than his bloodpoint earning method has been a disaster. It’s too confusing of a mechanic and doesn’t need to be exemplified beyond what it previously was.
- Recoil was cool. I think it encouraged a more skillful playstyle of tap-firing and only going full-auto when it was necessary, and made learning how to full-auto without losing accuracy incredibly rewarding. I am sad to see it go but I’m not exactly combative of its removal either. If it makes the killer more accessible, that’s fine I suppose.
Let’s move on to add-ons now, as they are a beast in their own right.
THE ADD-ON PROBLEM
Finally, I'm gonna wrap this up with a thorough look at each of Trickster’s add-ons, how to change them from here, and why they need updates. I kept this separate from the “priority list” because I think add-ons are a huge problem, but nothing is more of a problem than his current main kit.
We’ll go from top-to-bottom, starting with his Ultra Rares.
ULTRA RARE ADD-ONS
Death Throes Compilation
- Current Effect: Reveal the auras of Survivors hit by Blades during Main Event for 6 seconds.
This add-ons effect is pretty cool and makes Main Event better for sure, but it’s a far-cry from how useful the old version was. The Diamond Cufflinks add-on has a similar, better, and more common effect at a lower rarity, so I think this effect should be reserved for a lower rarity add-on. I would like for this add-on to return to a similar effect as the old version, but with an added caveat that makes it more fair to play against.
- New Effect: Automatically replenishes all Blades when Main Event ends after downing a Survivor during Main Event.
This reworked version makes use of Main Event’s strength as a finisher, rewarding players for their accuracy and smart use of the power with a free reload on demand. Compared to the old version which was basically an accuracy test, allowing you to never have to use lockers if you could hit roughly 70% of your blades.
Iridescent Photocard
- Current Effect: For each consecutive Blade hit, gain a stackable 1% Haste effect, up to a maximum of 7%. This bonus is lost when missing a Blade or putting a Survivor into the dying state.
This new version of the add-on is extremely cool and provides a reward to Tricksters who leverage his tap-fire playstyle well. However, it has some problems. Firstly, with the prospect of lowering his Laceration meter down to 6 Knives, I don’t think it makes sense to keep the effect stacking to 7%. Secondly, the Haste never goes away if you don’t do one of the other two effects, so it provides some value in ways I don’t think are intentional. To remedy this, I’ll suggest a change to its deactivation condition.
- New Effect: For each consecutive Blade hit, gain a stackable 1% Haste effect, up to a maximum of 5%. This bonus is lost when missing a Blade, when a Survivor loses a health state, or when the Survivor’s Laceration Meter begins decaying.
Now the effect is much less stackable and only serves its purpose when actively in chase, which I think is for the best.
VERY RARE ADD-ONS
All of Trickster’s purple add-ons are pretty decent and I don’t think they require any significant changes… except for one.
Trick Blades
- Current Effect: Causes Blades to ricochet off the environment a total of 2 times.
While this add-on does allow for much more cool skill-expressive plays, I think the add-on is currently too strong and makes a good Trickster inescapable. This add-on allows a blade that would otherwise miss two additional chances to deal full damage, and I think it needs to be toned down a bit to stand in-line with the other similar add-ons.
- New Effect: Blades that travel less than 16m ricochet off the environment a total of 2 times.
This limits the effect to close-range, allowing cool shots but still making it so blades that straight up miss are not relevant.
From this point on I'm gonna talk about add-ons that have similar effects
COMBO ADD-ONS
Fizz-Spin Soda
- Current Effect: Increases the time before a Combo ends by 15%.
Ji-Woon’s Autograph
- Current Effect: Increases the time before a Combo ends by 10%.
These addons are laughably awful. I don’t even understand how this passed through. They essentially are meant to increase the amount of bloodpoints you earn and help increase your main event duration. But… There’s plenty of other add-ons that increase main event duration. We don’t need more. Not to mention, the modifiers used here are so pathetically small they barely help in that regard. Both need to be reworked.
Fizz-Spin Soda
- New Effect: Decreases throws required to reach the maximum Throw Rate by 1.
Ji-Woon’s Autograph
- New Effect: Decreases the hits required to charge Main Event by 2.
I’ve given two different effects that I believe are more deserving of their rarities. While restoring Soda to its previous effect, I’ve also decided it needs a nerf. I believe the old version would be too much on the new Trickster. Ji-Woon’s autograph has instead been given the effect that Soda had on the Chucky PTB, as I think for the Uncommon rarity, that add-on's effect works well with the new Main Event design.
DECAY TIME ADD-ONS
Ripper Brace
- Current Effect: Increases the time before the Laceration Meter begins decaying by 3s.
On Target Single
- Current Effect: Increases the time before the Laceration Meter begins decaying by 2s.
While these add-ons both have respectable effects in their own right, I think stacking add-ons leads to less interesting gameplay. I don’t think a decay time add-on needs to be in the Rare group of add-ons, and I think On Target Single isn’t good enough to run on its own.
Ripper Brace
- New Effect: Injuring a survivor using Blades applies the Hemorrhage status effect.
On Target Single
- New Effect: Increases the time before the Laceration Meter begins decaying by 3s.
Now, On Target Single takes the reins as the sole Decay time add-on, unlocking an even 15s decay time, and Ripper Brace has a new effect as a sole Hemorrhage add-on, allowing some anti-heal/hit-and-run gameplay opportunities that I believe suit Trickster very well.
MAIN EVENT DURATION ADD-ONS
Waiting For You Watch
- Current Effect: Increases the duration of Main Event by 0.4s for each Blade Hit.
Lucky Blade
- Current Effect: Increases the duration of Main Event by 0.3s for each Blade Hit.
Tequila Moonrock
- Current Effect: Increases the duration of Main Event by 60%.
Inferno Wires
- Current Effect: Increases the duration of Main Event by 40%.
Counting the Combo add-ons, we have way too many add-ons solely to increase the duration of Main Event, 6 to be exact. That’s 30% of his total add-ons. Unacceptable, we need to cut this down to allow for more variety.
Waiting For You Watch
- New Effect: When a Survivor’s Laceration meter is filled, they gain the Oblivious status effect for 60s.
Lucky Blade
- New Effect: Increases the duration of Main Event by 0.4s for each Blade Hit.
Tequila Moonrock
- New Effect: Increases the duration of Main Event by 50%.
Inferno Wires
- New Effect: Decreases Main Event charge penalty for missed Blades by 50%.
I think these new effects speak for themselves. Watch now unlocks a hit-and-run playstyle, which again isn’t that huge because Trickster gives many warnings to survivors with his knives. Lucky Blade is just buffed since now it’s alone, Tequila is nerfed to compensate for the buffed duration, and Wires is reworked to a completely new effect, allowing more leniency in activating Main Event.
Add-on variety is very important, especially for a killer like Trickster who you can do so much with. For a long time his duplicate add-ons have had the problem of the higher rarity versions being good and the lower rarities being terrible, and the next two add-ons are a perfect example of what I mean.
AMMO ADD-ONS
Bloody Boa
- Current Effect: Increases Blade ammo capacity by 8.
Trick Pouch
- Current Effect: Increases Blade ammo capacity by 4.
These two add-ons are a prime example of what I just previously stated. Bloody Boa is an amazing add-on, it helps you so frequently and is just nice to throw on in any build. Trick Pouch on the other hand, provides so little it’s barely ever worth using, not even stacked with Boa. Since Trick Pouch seems more blatantly designed as an ammo add-on, I think Boa is the one that should be changed to something else.
Bloody Boa
- New Effect: Reveal the auras of Survivors hit by Blades during Main Event for 6 seconds.
Trick Pouch
- New Effect: Increases Blade ammo capacity by 8.
I decided to give Boa the effect of the current Death Throes Compilation add-on since I still like the effect, but don’t think it’s worthy of being an Ultra-Rare. I think this would put both of these add-ons in a good spot for their rarities.
COMMON ADD-ONS
Memento Blades
- Current Effect: Increases throwing speed by 10%
This add-on has had a sad life. For most of its life, this was always an intentionally terrible add-on, forcing you to hit an extra knife to injure survivors. Nowadays, it’s practically a crutch for current Trickster’s design problems. It increases his base throwing speed to almost 4kps with no downside, which is brutal and pushes him right back to his problematic state where he was on the PTB. This add-on needs another full rework.
- New Effect: Laceration caused by Blades is based on proximity to the target, starting at a minimum of 50% Laceration. Each Blade Hit increases the Laceration caused by Blades to a maximum of 200% Laceration. Missing a Blade resets Laceration to its initial value.
If you’re confused, this is the ORIGINAL effect of the Death Throes compilation add-on. It was a great add-on that was fun to use, but it had a short life before being removed, presumably for making the character even more difficult than he already was.
The gimmick with this add-on is that hitting your blades from close-up will cause them to deal half as much damage, but hitting them from incredibly long ranges will cause higher damage. In addition, hitting shots without missing also increases your laceration output by a significant amount.
This add-on effect would fit right in as a brown add-on, as it provides a hefty challenge for those who desire it.
Killing Part Chords
- Current Effect: Increases movement speed in the Throw State by 1%
This add-on is just terrible. It’s a copy of the far better Caged Heart Shoes add-on, but way less useful. Not even noticeable, and never worth running. I think this add-on needs an entire rework just to make sure no terrible duplicate add-ons are left.
- New Effect: Increases the Main Event activation window by 8s.
Now this add-on has a dedicated use, letting you hold on to Main Event for longer so you can use it when a good opportunity arises. This is accomplished by changing the modifier that drains the main event gauge from -0.33c/s to -0.25c/s, increasing the time you can hold onto Main Event from 24s to 32s.
(Which by the way, is a change that was swept under the rug, because changing Main Event’s Base duration also affects this. When Main Event was 10 seconds, this allowed you to pocket it for 30 seconds. When the duration was changed to 5 seconds, this resulted in you only being able to hold it for 15 seconds, and now 18s with the new 6s duration. What a mess!)
Well, by this point I’m sure I’m running out of space to type anything else, so I’ll end it here. Please consider my words, as I think this direction would help make Trickster feel fun again for many people.
Here’s a summary of the changes I want as a tl;dr. Thanks for reading.
Since you asked my thoughts, I wanted to take some time before answering right away-
6 Knife to Injure
If he was 4.4 m/s then 6 blades is okay.
Laceration Decay
It shouldn't be less than 15s Laceration decay. If he was 10 like before or even 12s, like others have said he would need to shoot faster, but if he shoots faster, then he needs to be 4.4 m/s. If his decay was any faster, it pressures you to get down quickly, maybe even just m1, and would eliminate many playstyles, including yours, for more of the spamming you are concerned about.
Laceration Meter
The laceration meter decay suggestion, I’m having a hard time following. Correct me if I am wrong, but you are saying…if the laceration meter, the individual bar, was halfway to disintegrating, and you hit a blade on a survivor, rather than refreshing that particular disintegrating laceration, you get that laceration back as it resets, and then gain a laceration beyond that? Thats interesting, but again I dont think he should be below 15s. BHVR doesn't want him to not be 4.6, and in the PTB version, 6 blades to injure/12 to down, was thought to be too much on the survivor's end. It all has to fit together based on him being 4.6. If you alter any part of his kit then everything else in that kit needs to be altered and balanced to a similar degree.
Combo System
I definitely like the idea of the Combo system for this Trickster, I just think its weak as hell right now, and needs a significant buff to be a worthwhile reward. I’ve seen some creative ideas with the Combo System from Revvium and it makes me think that it can be used to alleviate some of the complaints about this Trickster. So I wouldn't throw that out, BHVR is on to something there. Definitely would appreciate a reward system for accuracy and for a longer Main Event.
Main Event
Main Event activating at 6, it always felt cheap to me. But in PTB, his overall strength made me think I liked it…. But 6 is just so frequent…8 does feel better. I see what you are doing though with lowering it to keep the negative charges idea, but I just don’t think a punishment system is the way to go with Trickster. BHVR's goal was to make this character more inviting. And I want him to be challenging like 4.4 Trickster, but not frustrating. There are lots of reasons you can miss a knife, things out of your control, and needing new Main Event in a clutch moment, and not being able to pop it, sounds frustrating.
Add-ons
I read your add-ons, but more or less they feel lackluster. It doesn’t offer anything that makes this character special or unique to him. Like all the things we’ve already seen in the usual perks… Even one of my suggestions had Oblivious but the more I think about it, I think I would prefer scream reveal, as its more in line with lore, while also preventing some complications of what this character is capable of and why he has a lullaby. So I would say no Oblivous embedded in his add-ons
I’m hoping for more punch and creativity from BHVR on these add-ons, with Trickster specifically in mind.
But three add-on suggestions you have suggested, I do want to comment on are Trick Blades, Photo Card (PC) and Death Throes Compilation (DTC). Because I think you might not know how some of these are used or how they can be useful. If you are used to sticking to what you know and like, then I can see why. Its good to really branch out and talk with other Trickster Mains who play different ways to get a healthier opinion on add-ons and perks in general.
Trick Blades
There is no reason Trick Blades should be nerfed. Trick Blades takes a lot of skill to master, and a lot of time and memory of surfaces and maps. Spamming is not something you can stop bad Tricksters from doing.... but reloading frequently will and then they will lose because they spent too much time at lockers.
Sniping with Trick Blades at a distance, and actually downing someone with a second bounce is rare, very rare. Seeing someone do them in a compilation clip is cherry picked, and I guarantee took ages to make. If you even see it happen. Having a 20-meter limit is just taking away a very rare fun thing that MIGHT happen these blades.
Not to mention Trick Blades is often used for information, with throwing Main Event Trick blades out into environment to see where people are hiding or stealthing. That extra bounce at a distance helps. But most bounces that result in a hit are calculated when done by masters, so if someone could get a second bounce to down someone…then they deserve that down. Its also very in line with this character from a lore point of view. It adds to his showy maniac personality. It’s the little things, like blades chaotically bouncing around.
Photocard
Why are we nerfing Photocard? Since most people don’t play Trickster to m1 the majority of a match, and the accuracy required to make use of that 6 or 7 percent stack would mean you really earned it....it feels unnecessary to nerf to 5. Most people use PC to take those long snipes or hole shots, then use the speed to catch up since you probably lost sight of a survivor, who has gained distance. I would say this add-on we should at the very least keep as is, for people that want to play more like your style.
Death Throes Compilation
I have been finding value in the aura reading for Main Event with DTC and Tequila. I really enjoy it to be honest, but it feels like that is more of a purple add on, and DTC is lackluster as is.
I have said it could use more punch in my suggestions on the original Trickster forum, whether it makes other survivors scream or reveals their aura, I don’t know what but it needs something more… just a punch to it. It is iri after all.
However, I loved and strived for the no-reload playstyle of 4.4 Trickster, I would not mind an add-on replenishing knives based on accuracy with Main Event. But it could not be the same way as old DTC with a frequent Main Event, and need some difficulty to get blades back. If you are suggesting that, I think it would be worth testing, but you better be ready to go to bat for it cause even if it was difficult to do, as soon as people see the top 5 percent Tricksters master it/or do it, they will call for nerfs not realizing how 95% of Tricksters will struggle to get it more than once a match.
Hope that helps.
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@Revvium said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3622611#Comment_3622611
The current is not 6
Very True.
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@Liozio said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3622612#Comment_3622612
Trickster is punished with less MEs and more reloads as is. OP cares about the surv counterplay a lot imo.
Everyone here does as well though, I'm sure. Some of us I can say for certain. Like Endzej and myself. But most of us all play survivor and actively hope they find a Trickster in a pub. I play a lot of survivor, and many I know and even some on these forums, actively go against Tricksters as much as they can in custom matches, of varying skill levels and experiences on both the Tricksters and survivors' part. Basically we are play testing unofficially.
I think thats important to understand Trickster's rework and what he needs, to actively go against as many Tricksters as you can. Which is going to be more valuable information, than the occasional time a baby survivor went against a Trickster once.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3622577#Comment_3622577
As I mentioned before, the entire point of rapid fire gameplay, is accepting the fact that Trickster shouldn't ever be expected to have 100%, or near 100% accuracy. So every single idea you create, that heavily punishes Trickster for missing, is garbage. And yes, frequent Main Events are a mandatory part of rapid fire gameplay, as it's the only time he can bother to try hitting survivors that aren't near him, because of how easy it is to micro dodge knives at mid to far ranges.
We already have a projectile killer that heavily encouraged to have 100% accuracy (Huntress), and Trickster needs to have rapid fire gameplay in order to have his own identity, and a reason to pick him instead of Huntress. And yes, people can make Youtube montages from Huntress hatchets, so "I want to make montages" isn't an good enough excuse to ruin Trickster for the rest of us.
As someone who has made those montages for content lol..Hole shots and snipes does look cool and feels good to play for. But like you said its not something I would want him to be geared towards at his core. Understanding that when I dont feel like being casual and going on long chases to practice accuracy (basically willingly throwing matches)...when I want to play for "money" and win against a good swf, efficiency matters. Whoever is playing the most efficiently wins the match with good survivors. If I was forced to play without Main Event or without some rapid fire (not spamming)...then my efficiency goes down. Especially when survivors are grouped up, I need some rapid fire, and having Main Event to punish is peak feeling. And I of course will miss blades in matches, I am not Wacek, it would be too punishing to have negative charges. I would feel like I was playing K pop Dark Souls. Survivors...4 of them...with duplicate who knows what endurance/second chance perks, who know how to break LOS and Micrododge, (OMG and bots too) and get gens done quickly and then I cant pop Main Event cause i missed shots...oi.... I am already feeling stressed at the thought.
Using everything Trickster has in his kit matters. That includes Main Event /rapid fire, whether old ME or New. People spamming wildly and missing every shot under the sun but somehow still getting downs and then calling him OP with "underserved" downs .... usually those aren't Trickster Mains and are just playing him once in a while...or they are baby Tricksters who dont have the accuracy YET. Worrying about them is not really something I would change his basekit over.....because as soon as they run into good survivors they realize very quickly spamming does not guarantee winning matches. It guarantees reloading...a lot....and gens popping faster.
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@StarstruckFrog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621553#Comment_3621553
Main Event is not a core part of the character. Never was. It's a core part of NEW Trickster, because you are required to use it to get good results. I could go many many many games of previous trickster without using Main Event and still have fun and get good results with just his old regular throwing mode.
I do not want Main Event to be a core part of his kit, I've given many reasons as to why I don't enjoy it, and it's a common sentiment among my friends and people I see on social media. I will absolutely own the fact that my idea to rework it isn't perfect and could be replaced/altered in many ways, but I still maintain that the basic foundation of "Hit Knives accrue main event, and it never loses progress" is simply not a good way to balance the ability. I think it should be something that can build up quickly if you're good but can also be taken away quickly if you don't play optimally to some degree.
at this point, I'd 100% be willing to accept a different idea, along the lines of the meter draining slowly after long periods without hitting knives, lowering the amount of charges lost when missing, or heck just reworking what main event is fundamentally. But I don't like the current existing version at all, it lacks nuance that trickster's old throwing mode had. And at this point, i'd easily sacrifice main event entirely if it meant getting trickster's old basic throwing mode back.
I can appreciate that Starstruck. You were playing in a different way, and different from the people that I know and follow. (In regards to not needing Main Event with 4.4 Trickster)
However, I think making changes so that he finds more value in his base knives through add-ons is better than trying to make his base kit cater to that specific sentiment of ME not valuable.
Ironically, even though the rework you are painting for this Trickster is more punishing for acquiring Main Event, it feels like it is trying to get closer to 4.4 Trickster; yet, your view on Main Event value, meant you were disregarding one of the most difficult accuracy playstyles that you could achieve with 4.4 Trickster. His Main Event value with no reload.
The no reload playstyle with Death Throes Compilation (DTC) of 4.4 Trickster, which required you to be as accurate as possible to get value from DTC was a very rewarding and difficult playstyle when your goal was to achieve 1-0 reloads a match. VERY difficult to do, and required a lot of thought and knife management. I was striving for it but at best got 2 reloads with DTC in a match. I avoid saying the words “reload for free” because that ######### was not free, it was hard. It doesn’t seem like you ever tried that style, if you are disregarding Tricksters Main Event like you are and that’s a shame. I think you would have liked that playstyle based on what you like about high accuracy, and people like yourself might have seen the value and potential in this character's special ability had they tried that specific reward system. Not to mention that once you start getting higher in MMR, and the wild west of duplicate meta perks, Tricksters Main Event management is what made him competitive with competitive swfs in high MMR.
I’m telling you… the idea that Main Event was invaluable was the exact mentality or view that led BHVR to think Main Event needed to be changed in the first place. And with him changing meant reworking everything to fit New Main Event.
I also played 4.4 Trickster as I've said and I enjoyed a lot of things about that version’s base kit too. But with Main Event being frequent, Trickster being more aggressive in chase, and being 4.6, his kit needed to be altered. Laceration decay can’t be below 15s, its too punishing with 8 knife/16 down. And 6 Knife is better for 4.4 version Trickster, for counter play.
I think where the current Trickster is still ailing or not feeling good, is becoming apparent though. Some things that I can see that we agree on like the frequency of Main Event, being tweaked to hover around 12-16 to activate, is a common sentiment. Starstruck, I know you don’t find value of Main Event, but for the majority who do, shares the sentiment of having a bit longer Main Event, whether reward-based through a buffed Combo System to allow a much longer ME or integrated from Tequila Moonrock into base kit ME, or having both (my opinion) is a shared sentiment. We all agree his add-ons need a buff and also some creativity. They are all still based on a 6 knife/12 down Trickster, and many are weak and don’t promote variety of playstyles. But I do think keeping certain add-ons Main Event Orientated as they are is good, they just need more to them.
Whether you liked old Trickster more or not, this is the version we have now. This Trickster’s current kit accommodates for a different Main Event. If you removed his Main Event, made it too difficult to achieve or disregarded it as a I dont care about it (which would be a tragedy…) hes just Huntress 2.0. Many people do not want Huntress Trickster, including myself. I would be so depressed if that happened….If I wanted to play like Huntress, base kit, I would just play Huntress. But I got to be honest…I only play this game to master Trickster, if that was no longer fun or felt he was just a knock off character of another....I dont think I would play this game as much.
Add-ons to accommodate a Huntress-like playstyle, with long shots… is okay though, I think one Revvium's add-on suggestions I mentioned in original forum, rewards a player for snipes or hole shots… but he is too unique to make him just a Huntress. His Main Event is important to this character whether 4.4 or 4.6 version. Can it be altered and tweaked? Absolutely. But with the acknowledgment that it is a core part of this character and should remain so.
Trickster is so fun to go against. He requires you to be on your toes, and good teamwork because of Main Event. Many people don’t understand the goal with Trickster is not to not go down at all, but to spread out and avoid grouping up, spreading out the downs and wasting his time. He's an intense killer because of the looming threat of Main Event and I love it.
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Since this is an ongoing process of improvement, Im sure opinions are going to evolve. I think mine have some, along with me familiarizing myself with this version of Trickster.
I was trying different add-ons, including Memento Blades. Started formulating Ideas, and shared those ideas with other Trickster Mains....Heres some of my/our thoughts.
- Memento Blades
From what I have seen from both my games and others with different skill experiences, the value of Memento Blades at 10% will vary. I still think at best, baking in half would be better than the whole 10. I dont think this add-on is worth existing as only a 5% increase of blades alone. Im not sure on this one.
A lot of competitive top Tricksters will feel this is an advantage or that it changes the outcome of their game, and is not necessary, because of their accuracy and other skills they can utilize during the match.
Newer players might feel it's essential because they tried it and don’t have experience without it.
While maybe more casual or casual-competitive Tricksters might not think it's necessary, but that it just feels good.
It’s a faster down for sure, more cushion for mistakes in other areas that the player may make during the match.
I think it feels good, but it still doesn’t feel worth running to me. I find it under stimulating. Plus, I find other add-ons more needed. Which brings me to the next add-on…
-Tequila Moonrock
I am married to this add-on. I don’t want to be married. I'd like a divorce….but I can't afford it.
I feel codependent to this add-on because of my play style, which is more of hitting survivors when they don’t expect me to take shots… So more in that mid to just before “You shouldn’t be wasting knives, they are too far, laceration will decay…” kind of distance. Not all the time, but I do like using Main Event in unexpected ways. When they think they are safe, or when they perhaps got a bit of speed boost from injury and I pop it as they run away. It's very risky, but its usually when survivors start running in a straight line, when they they think they are safe to stay in the open, at a distance.
There are certain unexpected ways to use Main Event, but I can't do that without a longer duration. I can’t moonwalk to mindgame with Main Event either, when its too short. Which requires you throwing blades at the ground before turning to surprise them with Main Event. Endzej has an example of that in the Google Doc. Im not sure BHVR ever opened it, but for the communities sake, if you want to know what moonwalking with Main Event looks like, it is there in the Goodle Doc, earlier in the forum.
Even with tying longer Main Event as a reward to Combo system, not having Main Event longer as basekit feels limiting. Moonwalking with Main Event is extremely useful in high tiles, one of Trickster's weakest areas.
Joystick makes Main Event inherently harder to control than on PC (I’ve tested both) too. So naturally you may miss some knives at the start of Main Event before positioning correctly or even if the survivor is weaving. So longer feels better for a controller for that reason, but its nothing I would boycott over, it’s a byproduct win if it was to be extended base kit.
Also, I don’t like the idea of having to only be right on the survivor's toosh to use all of my Main Event on them, it feels cheap. I like the surprise attack or variety use of a bit longer Main Event.
Suggestions:
I know Main Event can't be too long…not with this Trickster.
So how about this:
-Roll some of Tequila Moonrock percentage into base kit
-Some of it into Combo Scoring that makes Main Event longer, based on accuracy
-Then make Tequila Moonrock add-on a lower percentage
This gives an option to run Tequila Moonrock if your aim isn’t good enough to get the benefit from Combo Score as a Main Event extender. While allowing Main Event to feel viable enough without Main Event Extenders, and even if they miss and mess up Combo Score, they still have some extra duration at base kit, and some creative ways to use Main Event.
Tier list of longer main event would be- Best/Longest- Combo score, Second Best- Tequila, Third Best- Base kit
Combo Score- Main Event Extender
With Combo score being incentivized with a bigger payoff for accuracy, like Revvium suggested (he has numbers for this system on his post) this also incentives not having to feel “married” to Tequila, bringing more value to other add-ons that are more creative and promote different playstyles. (If other add-ons are improved than the current state that is... ).
You would probably need to still buff the Combo system beyond dividing up Tequila to be honest, to fit Rev's idea, and make it worth the reward of accuracy.
-I think the longest and best way to extend Main Event should be the reward system for accuracy, so Combo Score System.
-Trick blades
They are my new go-to add-on that’s different and exciting among the many flat an outdated feeling addons, with New Trickster. Trick Blades helps save time in chases that inevitably end in a pallet or obstacle that a survivor can use to waste a lot of time… which despite Trickster being 4.6, does not give him a huge advantage when using your power at strong tiles/obstacles.
I saw some suggestions about extra bounces or that the current extra bounce is too op or something like that. I play against Tricksters a lot in customs, and I never felt that the random blade that might have hit me or downed me was too op, just because its rare. Just knowing a Trickster has Trick blades (easy to tell) means I can adjust how I take chase or take cover. A lot of survivors will sit in place even after the first blade bounces off the wall and hits them, until they are down.
It is RNG dependent, it is not always consistent, unless you have it mastered or have tested every specific area of that specific map ahead of time ….It is not even close to being op for 99 percent of Tricksters, except Mr. Meow.
Suggestions:
A little nervous to give this suggestion for this add-on, since it is fine and the best overall add-on.
But like Edge of Revival Album, there is a certain amount of experimentation with these add-ons that you feel less inclined to take, because you are at 44 knives and 8 knives to injure/16 to down.
-Adding extra blades attached to this add-on. Maybe 8, or since it is a purple add-on maybe 10. I will leave that up to debate.
(not too many that might encourage spamming, but enough to allow some experimental shots)
-Edge of Revival Album
I started using this when I first started playing Trickster 5 or 6 months ago. I stopped using it for dumb reasons (Was told it was what you use when you can't aim), but recently tried it again with this Trickster. I really like this add-on, but given that we are at 8 knives to injure, I feel it could use some buffs.
It is actually pretty useful for controller players especially. You are going to miss some shots at tiles and with good survivors, so you can aim near them and the building laceration will push them out from behind an obstacle into the open where you can down them.
You can aim at the feet with weaving survivors, and build up lacerations if you do infact miss some shots. This might pscyhe them out thus straightening them out to make it easier to shoot them. Again good for controller players.
But I do think it could use a buff or some extra flare. I like Revvium's idea, I think it was to extend the radius of the splash damage a bit.
Suggestions:
-Slightly bigger splash damage radius
and/or
-Adding extra blades attached to this add-on. Since it is a purple add-on maybe 10.
Especially since inherently Album is going to use more experimental blades, or blades to push out survivors. I feel more confident about suggesting extra blades here.
-Boa and Trick Pouch
Suggestions:
-I feel like it could use some more knives. The lacerations meter went up, why are these still the same?
This gives these add-ons more value because of the suggestions for Trick Blades and Edge of Revival Album (extra blades).
It also will allow the current default amount to stay at that symbolic 44 Knives, which 4 being associated with death, but offering more blades for this current Trickster who has a higher knife-injure ratio now through add-ons.
It would be cool to see someone run both Boa and Trick Pouch, and forgo any other advantage but just have extra blades. Could be its own playstyle.
-Waiting For You Watch
I didn’t try this one for long with this Trickster, just because I get more value for my playstyle with Tequila. It was usually end game, or with survivors who haven’t learned how to counter Trickster yet, who grouped up for an unhooking (the worst thing you can do) that Stopwatch really shined. But once you start going against people who know how to counter Trickster Stopwatch doesn’t really shine as much anymore. If they are good at breaking LOS, it starts to depreciate its value. But it can be very lethal if survivors do group up.
Suggestions:
During one Endzej’s recent streams, who is a prominent Trickster Main In the Trickster Community, had also Wacek, top winstreak Trickster Player and Revvium who is another well established Trickster main In the community, had a whole podcast brainstorming ideas for add-ons and just creative things to do with Trickster for a few hours.
One of those ideas was assigning different colors of blades to certain add-ons. Apparently, this is something the community has asked for before, for cosmetics having different colored blades.
So….With Stopwatch and its lethality:
-Maybe it would help if the blades were a different color that survivors could at least see visually, and tell themselves “hey, this is that dangerous af add-on that we absolutely can not group up with or need to scatter like rats if we are found.” Then the survivors would at least know they shouldn’t body block based on the color of blades they see.
Maybe then we could be more lenient with Stopwatch if there is more active counterplay. Then its current lethality is less of threat…And a visual que would be fun for survivors to have to look out for. Using more brain and strategy. Maybe it still needs a tiny nerf, but I think with counterplay it could be fine as is.
-Cut Thru U Single
It's not going to get a lot of value as is. Just not that often that you are going to find survivors who body block, and even if you found a match where you got more value out of this…by itself Cut Thru U Single feels meh. I want it to be exciting and worth its weight in slot space….
Again, the knife-to-injure count went up, so this add-on should be adjusted.
Suggestions:
-Revvium suggested a full laceration for the next survivor hit. I would add, that it does an effect as well.
-The second knife to hit the second survivor, causes deep wound on them. So if they do get away, they need to mend. Cut Thru U Single is very situational, so I think high reward is okay to have. It also adds some unique pressure for more than just 1v1. As Trickster is strong in 1v1, but if 3 survivors are doing gens at a time elsewhere, it doesn’t matter how strong he is in a 1v1.
-Death Throes Compilation
I enjoy this add-on. It is the one I go to when not using Trick Blades, and works well with Tequila Moonrock.
Suggestions:
You could probably be more creative here, maybe this is where it causes nearby survivors to scream when Main Event is used on a survivor, with this add-on. Maybe it causes blindness too *nudge nudge*.
As an Iri, it just feels like it needs more punch.
-Diamond Cufflinks
Another one of my most used and go-to add-ons that I love, Is Cufflinks. I would use it to make more flashy shots…sometimes longer shots or snipes. But it feels like it has less synergy or maybe it just needs more now with New Trickster (because of knife to injure/knife count/Main Event etc…).
Not to encourage any notion of making Trickster like Huntress, by taking longer snipes and hole shots. I don’t want Huntress 2.0, but the *cool factor* of this character is snipes sometimes. It's what makes him look stronger than he is, and feeds content creators with content with compilation clips. But it's not an efficient way to play Trickster and competitively you probably wouldn’t take too many of those shots. With that acknowledged, I like the idea of rewarded longer snipes. I was talking with Revvium on this one, and the idea of incentivizing snipes through add-ons can nurture anyone who wants to play Trickster that way.
Suggestions:
-Survivors hit at a certain distance away (this needs to be tested) gets 2 laceration meters.
How this would balance out-
If you hit a survivor at a longer distance away, they are going to go for cover of course, but you still need to catch up. If they run to cover (which they probably will) that prevents further lacerations, and by the time you catch up, maybe the second laceration might have decayed, but you will be rewarded with a remaining laceration. So you still have progress on them. And doesn’t feel like the shot is totally wasted for sniping.
If they remain in the open, and you can manage to hit them from far way 3 more times, with them swerving, you down them. Then you are rewarded for the snipe. (This would be a nice flex for anyone not using crosshair)
This could be an add-on on its own, but I thought since Diamond Cufflinks is the go to add-on for hole shots. Maybe it can have an attached incentive for long snipes too.
I am still thinking on the other add-ons...
I think the key with Tricksters add-ons is to actually buff them, be creative, and add some flare while being a functional asset. Being too afraid of being too strong is underserved because this killer is very counter-able, and it will be a matter of time when survivors stop DC’ing and actually learn to counter him. Because again strong in 1v1 doesn’t mean a killer is going to win.
The point of taking chases or being chased by any killer….is not to escape chase. It's to waste as much time before you go down. And that depends on how much you are willing to learn about each killer and each add-on they might have. Creating variety in gameplay and counter-gameplay. The killer needs to be able to down a survivor in a relatively short time because of how quick it can take to do a gen. If every survivor could escape every chase, or waste too much of a killer's time because of their weaker basekit or obstacles/tiles, then this game would fall apart. At the same time, if a survivor becomes skilled enough they should be able to waste a killer's time for a while, but not indefinitely… If every add-on of the killer was nerfed or too safe, then the killer gameplay becomes a one-trick pony and predictable. Not fun to go against either. You might as well just call this game Gen Simulator at that point. I think Trickster's add-ons could use a buff.
Overall, this Trickster may be stronger at finding chases, but he is still as weak as how effective he is at snowballing. He is at his strongest when survivors make mistakes and he capitalizes on people's unwillingness to learn how to counter him and accept that the team might make it out, or two might, but they might not. Not every time. I think too often, over altruism and lack of understanding of counterplay results in misinformed complaints and unnecessary nerfs with this killer especially. Make his add-ons strong, creative for this character, and versatile.
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Hello,
I have been following this thread, and I also have seen some of your posts on Twitter. Since the subject of controller and console players has come up….I thought I’d chime in. Especially because I think you misinterpreted what Revvium was trying to say. And I want to make sure Revvium knows that no one I know (controller player) or at least myself, took that the wrong way.
For context, I am a console player. 1000 hours on DBD, and have 600 hours on Trickster alone. I am p100 with him, iri rank, and I play Trickster religiously. Hes the only killer I really play but I do play survivor too. I am involved in the Trickster community, and a content creator exclusively for Trickster and showing what you can do on the controller with Trickster. For better or worse gameplay. I hold and participate in Trickster matches in customs, with all types of platforms, and with different skill leveled Tricksters. So helping people practice with Trickster and going against many different Tricksters myself. I am probably one of the better controller players on console. And I also encourage top PC Trickster Mains to play on controller for fun. Not just because I find it funny, but because I know its hard, and I want them to experience it for themselves since they have a platform in the Trickster community. They would agree, controller is just a whole other beast. I also have been practicing with Mnk, so that I can better understand the differences between Console and PC with Trickster. All that to say, that I am not just thinking of myself, and my particular playstyle but other Trickster mains from a variety of backgrounds when I agree or make suggestions.
Revvium is not being disingenuous. I would argue, and please don’t take this the wrong way, but it kind of sounds like you are. You posted a clip on Twitter I guess to showcase that the controller wasn’t as hard as people make it out to be….about skill issue, or about controller players saying its harder to play Trickster on controller and they just need practice. It sounds like based on your few matches you determined its not that hard at all. While that is appreciated that you took the time to investigate controller to give an opinion… Let me be very clear on this as someone who has been playing Trickster on controller for hundreds of hours, as well as talking with other controller Tricksters who have thousands of hours, it will NEVER have the same advantages as Mnk, and will always be Hard Mode for Trickster in regards to accuracy. There is even advantages and gaps between controller on PC vs controller on console. Thats okay. We controller/console players relish in that difficulty and in being Trickster chads of the Trickster community. Yet we do appreciate BHVR’s consideration and attempts to address frustrations. Even so, Trickster on controller is still inherently harder, and there is nothing BHVR can do to alleviate inaccuracy when using a joystick with this character. Again that’s okay, we still enjoy the character. With that said, saying its not hard and that it can be the same on Mnk with just more practice, or that is skill issue….when you are not a console player, that seems disingenuous.
You said that you bet you could get better at Trickster with controller in your Twitter post, well Im here to tell you, yes you can, but you will still miss knives. There will always be a level of limitations and disadvantages. You will miss knives regardless to how many hours you put in this character when on controller, with good survivors. Hell most people cant avoid that on PC with Trickster, but on controller no matter how skilled you get, its going to be harder to be pixel-perfect accurate with moving survivors or survivors who know how to counter Trickster properly. That is what Revvium is saying by your accuracy restriction on Main Event, with the negative charges for missed blades giving another level of frustration for console players. Why should that be a punishment system?
I think BHVR is doing its best to tackle this gap between the two platforms in regards to this character. Balancing him so he doesn’t feel unfun to play for PC Trickster mains, while making it easier for console/controller players AND while also keeping the skill expression for both platforms to enjoy. That’s quite the undertaking actually. This Trickster is not perfect, and can of course be further improved, but he was reworked with the intent to make things easier for console. As much as that pains me to say because I did play 4.4 Trickster all the way to p99 and would have liked to believe that I could have been as good as a top Trickster PC player with 4.4 Trickster, but the truth is controller will always have some limitation. Especially on console.
I don’t agree that hes having an identity crisis with Main Event, but I do agree he could use improvements. I have voiced that I didn’t like the frequent Main Event, but understand especially after playing him more, that the free knives you get from Main Event are critical to using him efficiently now. The new skill in accuracy is in how many chases you can go without reloading.
I don’t think going back to 6 knife to injure/ 12 to down, or that Main Event should go back to 30 knives to activate would work with this Trickster. This Trickster is meant to be fast and intense. I think 12 knives to activate Main Event wouldn’t break him however, and I like the idea of rolling some of Tequila duration percentage length into basekit, that would be nice, while improving the Combo System (buffing it significantly) to reward accuracy. Revvium already suggests such a buff. I think the Combo system is a good idea, its just weak right now. Giving us a reward system for being accurate as we all want and can agree on.
Main Event is at the core of this character. It feels a bit strange to hear someone say they intentionally shoved Main Event out of the way......Even with 4.4 Trickster Main Event was at the heart of this character and what gave him a competitive edge against swf and higher mmr. I would not disregard his secondary power as something you just occasionally think about at rarity, that you either get or dont...but didn't matter either way. His power makes him unique. It was never a bad power, just bad usage of it on the players part when he was 4.4. The same can be said about current Trickster Main Event and how people are using him or refuse to use him.
Anyway, I just wanted to respond to some of the things being said about controller, and hopefully clear anything up that might be misunderstood about playing Trickster on console.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3617514#Comment_3617514
When survivors get something nerfed, I really wish that people would go on these forums and tell survivors that nerfs are good, because it allows them to use more skill expression, and allows them to be challenged.
I wish that were the case too. I wish survivors would ask for Adrenaline nerf tbh Lol....But if they don't play killer they more than likely will see nerfs as " this game is killer sided" which is very much not true.
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@LeGranEmi said:
You are definitely wrong, the trickster does need base memento blades, he is still slow when throwing knives. Also do you know why us tricksters don't usually use the m1? Exactly because we have knives and the launch speed would not be a problem like this now if it were 6 knives but now there are 8 and having to use memento blades in each game so that your launch speed is good is not something anyone like
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3617219#Comment_3617219
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3617219#Comment_3617219
Well, if you say so, but I still stand by this opinion. I dont doubt that you feel you need the extra 10% of Memento Blades to succeed in matches. I'm just providing some thought on when it comes to needing faster throw rate on top of 4.6 AND 15s decay laceration. You are saying its because the 8 knife to injure. Yes that does make a difference, can't deny that. I do feel it when I am comparing this Trickster to old Trickster. However I dont find myself comparing this Trickster to Old Trickster like I did in the previous update....There are lots of times in the previous update I would say "Man that would have already been a down...that would have been an injure". I dont find myself comparing out of pain like I did last update. The 8 knife is a new challenge that you need to account for when in chase and looping. When you do that accuracy becomes more important. Mind gaming becomes important, timing shots...everything becomes more important to make sure you injure them. Before you could injure while in animation, and now thats not guaranteed, unless you start sooner, or your accuracy is better. I don't think thats terrible, I just think is a challenge. One of the things that I didn't like, if we are comparing 4.4 with 4.6 Trickster, is people saying this Trickster was for people who didn't want to take the time to learn 4.4 Trickster because he was harder. Its true though, and I think thats why I am wary to remove any of THIS Tricksters skill expressions or difficulties. And I say difficulties not frustrations, not to me at least, because I am learning to work around the 8 knife to injure. 8 knives to injure is what we are saying we need the memento blades for?
I think 10% is a lot to put in his basekit, and it does whether you agree or not about having it, it does make a huge difference and makes him less challenging to use. Maybe 5% but 10? If the counterplay isn't in laceration, or movement speed then where is it? It just feels like we would be making 4.6 Trickster have everything 4.4 did but with 4.6 movement. And 4.4 Trickster was pretty strong, he was just slow as hell (but for a reason). Just an opinion and some thought. I've been running a build without Memento Blades to see if it is in fact only the better players who can manage without Memento Blades...and I am not the best Trickster, but I haven't felt like my losses were because I wasn't running Memento. Usually because I made a mistake or my accuracy. Like I said before. And remember this is all opinion, even your counterargument. Doesnt mean BHVR will listen to it.
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@dance said:
Thanks all. Glad to hear that for several of you The Trickster feels better after the most recent changes. For those who think he feels in a pretty good spot - is it accurate to say that the biggest pain point / concern is his Add-ons? Specifically that Memento Blades feels like a must-have and/or that the others are too weak to provide much variety?
For those who feel The Trickster still isn't quite how you would want him - I saw a few comments about 8 knives vs. 6 knives, notably around the ammo capacity staying the same even though more knives are needed. I just want to make sure - did I miss any major context around that?
Now that I have spent more time with this Trickster, and because Dance asked about add-ons and points of frustration…Thought I’d chime in once more. Just wanted to spend more time with this Trickster and talk to other Trickster mains first.
Overall, I think this Trickster does feel good, he has to be played differently from 4.4 Trickster of course, and if you are trying to work that out with your own playstyle, he will feel good to play. But, I do wanna address Memento Blades again….
I think it's clear BHVR is not going to overreact, even if people complain about Memento Blades. But even so it is very strong on THIS Trickster. I see people want it as basekit too......I think trying to alter his throw rate at current, is pushing this Trickster towards making him easier, not in a good way, without meaning to. Or taking away some skill expression that he has at current. I understand the idea of Memento blades being basekit in order to make Trickster feel more M2 driven, to lean into his M2-only playstyle that you could do with 4.4 Trickster. And at first, that sounds true, until watching Trickster mains with practice do mostly m2 with THIS Trickster well enough.
So I have to ask, why does a higher throw rate feel needed then? I realized that we have had this Trickster for a week or two and we are already saying his throw rate isn’t good enough, and yet some already have proven it is. Not to mention you shouldn’t feel like you’ve mastered this character in just a week or two, it's not the same Trickster. This goes for other basekit suggestions...and what I said previously about "having cake and eating too", survivors aside, this is about skill expression....There is some skill expression through his throw rate, and through New Main Event, i.e. going as many as 3 or 4 chases without reloading, for being accurate with Main Event and popping it at the right time. As well as skill expression in being careful to not waste knives when looping, timing your shots, and learning what survivors will do so you can get them in position to use Main Event, even if to just save a few blades. All this plays a part in making THIS Trickster skill expressive. That includes keeping his throw rate from being too fast. Given what he has elsewhere in his basekit.
I think Memento Blades feels good, because you don’t have to think as hard about looping and how best to utilize your knives, and it makes downs faster and looping shorter. I disagree that it is needed, and I don’t want to go back on any skill-expressive parts of this Trickster since his skill expression is no longer obtaining Main Event or the no reload playstyle. Memento Blades feels like it takes away skill expression.
I understand the frustrations of feeling forced to m1 or that this Trickster feels not so m2 friendly, but after talking to different Trickster mains, watching the best of the best Trickster mains mostly use m2, and rewatching my own gameplay…on mistakes. I wonder how much of those frustrations with THIS Trickster are really just… not playing Trickster efficiently. Similar to how 4.4 Trickster was not played optimally and his Main Event was said to be "useless" when in fact it wasn't. Because you can't say it's not possible with THIS Trickster to lean hard into m2, with current throw rate, because when I look at Wacek play Trickster, I know it is. He's still playing mostly m2 and with the current throw rate. Ayano, can do mostly m2 if he didn’t use Memento Blades, Knifyyy is another Trickster main, mostly m2, and Guegjigo can do mostly m2 without Memento Blades and at the current throw rate. And you might say well they are top Trickster players, and that’s why….well isn’t that the point? Wouldn’t it be more of a concern if they couldn’t successfully play Trickster as mostly m2 killers with the current throw rate? I think people are having a hard time accepting that he can be both skill-expressive and beginner-friendly, which is what this Trickster feels like. I think adjusting and taking more time to learn better ways to play THIS Trickster might help with frustrations of the throw rate.
Personally, in every case that I chose to basic attack and didn’t feel good about it, is because I made a mistake somewhere, that made me resort to having to m1 over m2 in the first place. Not necessarily because basic attack was the only choice, and a faster throw rate was needed. I could have done something better to do mostly m2. With all this said, using m1 is part of this Trickster's efficiency and I think how little you are forced to m1 might depend on how well you do with everything else...So while being beginner-friendly, he takes some skill to go for the mostly m2 playstyle.
This is why, I don’t feel the current throw rate is an issue, or use Memento Blades out of necessity. if I saw better Trickster players struggling to play mostly m2 at the current throw rate, and if no one could do it, I would be concerned then.
Just in case anyone forgot….I am a console/controller player (as mentioned for the millionth time) and in theory, whatever pains PC Tricksters feel, I should be feeling it worse or are more sensitive to basekit changes because of well.... joystick….. But I have to say, I’m not feeling throw rate pains. Maybe that’s just me…
I think a better compromise than adjusting his throw rate would be to buff Boa and Trick Pouch to allow for missed blades, zoning blades or breathing room for addons that might require experimental blades... should someone feel too restricted by the number of blades in basekit.
Other add-ons should be adjusted and could use buffs. I like the idea of half-laceration damage becoming whole-laceration damage for some add-ons like cut through single and even buffin Album. I agree with that, it would make them feel worthwhile while I think to experiment with.
Do something with Soda and Autograph, for sure. It's just not even a little enticing, nor am I even curious to try them. Opening the window a little for combo score? Not interested.
Thank you BHVR for taking the time to go through the comments.
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@FreeKnives said:
Trickster is good. Can you increase the snowball count. I think 6 is too little.
Actually on second thought...NVM.
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Trickster is good. Can you increase the snowball count. I think 6 is too little.
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BHVR, Trickster feels good.
I played Trickster yesterday, and it was a night and day difference. He feels better than PTB Trickster, and to me, feels better than 4.4 Trickster overall. If you think about not “having your cake and eating it to”. There are things that are arguably better about 4.4 Trickster and there are arguably better things about this Trickster, but no one here is going to say that this current Trickster is not better than previous update. So Sincerely, thank you for the patch.
Now, I don’t like using an add-on to get 4.4 Trickster’s Main event value back, but I am starting to understand the trade-offs with a 4.6 Trickster. You can't have everything all at once. You already confirmed you are not moving away from 4.6, so its more about understanding what you can have from 4.4 Trickster with a 4.6 Trickster basekit, without killing many playstyles at the same time. But the laceration meter, thank you sincerely for reverting that. It was the biggest problem and makes a huge difference. I can now play Trickster without being punished severely for my play style. I also feel like this Trickster feels better to me, because with 4.4 Trickster…even if you played well, he felt like he was more at the mercy of randomness, when trying to win. Albeit rng, meta perks, guessing whether you were facing swfs, or exploits in maps. It just feels like this current Trickster feels less at the mercy of randomness. Again I liked 4.4 Trickster, especially his Main Event, but I can appreciate this Trickster and where the skill expression might be now instead. Maybe doing more with combo score and extending Main Event through accuracy. IDK. But This Trickster does feel good. I actually feel like my hours and prestige actually reflect, in the outcome of the game when I play well.
Trickster's power now feels like a threat again, where as in the previous update, survivors could and would swarm towards me during Main Event, and ignore it with enough body blocking, and not even for objective purposes, just because they could and knew it. Now survivors have to avoid my power (Imagine!). They have to play smarter and cannot abuse the nerf of the previous update. That doesn’t mean he is OP. Chaining tiles together, running through LOS blockers, second chance/endurance/haste perks, and stealth/gen rushing are still very viable against this Trickster.
I am also going to back up @endzej_ on this…I think you should go back to your original idea of 5% with Memento blades rather than 10%. Unless leaving it that way was on purpose and you are going for that...uh maybe not a common brown add on then. I just don’t want a repeat of PTB Trickster fiasco, because people are already making click-bait videos calling Trickster “OP, Broken” because of Memento Blades and Stop Watch combo. It is a really fun addon (I have other preferred addons though) and it makes shooting really fun when you feel in the mood to use it. I don't think its necessary at 10% to use Trickster effectively. Again looking at him overall, and being 4.6. It does end chases much more quickly, but I can see how it can be oppressive in a way that triggers survivors. Especially when combined with Stop Watch. I would rather not have fun with those add-ons at their current numbers or rarity, than keeping it as is and this results in misinformation and Trickster being accused of being overall OP. So please take a look at the addons that @endzej_ _ mentioned. Adjusting the numbers a bit would go a long way. Because let's face it, people dont really know anything about Trickster unless they play him ENOUGH and they will take one "broken" thing and make it about the character overall.
Again,
Just know that survivors will complain about this killer till the end of days, and even among Trickster mains we all play differently, which is why he is so fun. We might not all agree on every detail, but we can all sleep better now, because the previous update Trickster was abysmal. Thank you again for making it a priority to adjust Trickster, especially with an upcoming event. Appreciate all your hard work.
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To my newer console and controller fam,
I know some of you are so focused on no recoil and 4.6.
Trickster was always available to you. Recoil was not the main issue with aim, it was using the joystick and building muscle memory in general, as well as knowing when you can shoot because of recoil on controller. You were always more than capable of being lethal with this killer at 4.4. Im not saying recoil should be on Trickster, or that it wasn't harder on controller, but Im saying dont ignore the nerfs of this update for no recoil. You shouldn't be satisfied with Trickster's skill expression being gutted, or his nerfs, just because you are afraid to lose no recoil and 4.6. I understand some think he was unplayable, but I and many other console Tricksters who have hundreds to thousands of hours are proof that he was more than just playable. Remember this was all supposed to be a buff, to help. And instead, it became a rework to Main Event/ his basekit, and an overall nerf. If you want 4.6, thats fine, but its not needed to be an effective skill-expressive ranged killer with Trickster on console. Yes 4.6 is nice, yes it would be cool if we could have both, 4.4 Trickster base kit but 4.6..... I could be wrong but I think BHVR is saying you can't have both...you can't have 4.6 and have his 4.4 Trickster Main Event and skill expression of his power. And his power is everything, it's what makes him fun. So if BHVR is making this a trade for 4.6, then why would you trade that usefulness and skill expression of his power and Main Event, for being more useful to just basic attack? Every Trickster main hates not using their knives to down someone...
I was p99 when this update dropped, always Rank 1 and thats without using overly oppressive perks. My fellow console player friends, are also high prestige and also did well with 4.4 Trickster.... I'm telling you, if there has to be a trade with Tricksters base kit for 4.6, you are getting less than you had with 4.4 Trickster. You are losing what made him fun and viable in higher MMR. You could do so many cool things with accuracy (because of throw rate/laceration decay) and Main Event from 4.4 Trickster, even with controller. Im sad you guys will never get to experience that joy and pride of being a 4.4 Console Trickster for all that he was and all the skill you had to build up to be one. You would have been very respected, and immediately bonded with other Controller Tricksters for the patience and dedication to be one.
Controller fam, you didnt need this update to be good at Trickster. You just needed more time and more practice. This was just supposed to be a little bit of a buff and quality of life change... I dont know what happened. But I implore you, dont accept the nerfs.
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@tyantlmumagjiaonuha said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3602729#Comment_3602729
I don't necessarily need him at 4.6 m/s; I wanted him to be a killer, even at 4.4 m/s, capable of finishing off survivors by knife in certain positions and at certain distances.
Agreed. If the trade off for 4.6 is to make Main Event less effective, I would rather him be 4.4, and make using knives more essential. Again, I am a console player, and Im telling you, Id rather shoot knives and use bat as a last resort than have these changes.
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I think it would be best to #RevertTrickster as he is too weak in his current state, and its too difficult to try an make him good for both higher mmr with skill expression and easy with little skill expression for low mmr.
(I was asked to make a full sentence by a mod.)
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@dance said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3601888#Comment_3601888
We've been reading through all the feedback in this thread (huge THANK YOU again to everyone for sharing your thoughts !), as well as on social and other platforms, and passing it along to the rest of the team. We have noted everything that we've seen - including the laceration feedback.
Thank you Dance. I know there is a lot the team has on their plate, but this is really tough to sit with without any word from the dev. team themselves. I hope they dont find all this passion insulting.
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@dance said:
Hi all,
For The Trickster, we are still looking into the slow throwing speed, on both base and Main Event.
Thats not the only problem... Pls read the #RevertTrickster google doc carefully. Trust the Trickster community on this. We are talking hundreds and thousands of hours on this character, both advanced (Top Tricksters from around the world), less advanced Tricksters, console Tricksters, and Tricksters who also play a lot of survivors. Pls BHVR, dont ignore this community. It's practically unanimous in what we are asking for.
#RevertTrickster
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To add to this BHVR, a lot of people, including myself, play DBD for this character. Not saying he's the only fun character or that survivor isn't fun, however, there is just something special and fun about this character gameplay. It requires patience and time to get better which has turned me from casual once in a blue moon player to more frequent player. Im sure other mains feel the same about their character, but Trickster mains are very passionate about this character... Its not to be stubborn or sulk, when they decide to leave. But what else can they do, if the character is not fun and there is nothing to look forward to with skill, but move on? And thats sad considering how loyal the Trickster community is. Many are waiting for you to announce something today before making a decision to leave DBD...Both high level and low level Tricksters.
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Because of the hype and Youtubers sensationalizing PTB Trickster, people who just picked up Trickster and are in low MMR are suggesting more nerfs... So many people who have never touched Trickster, are calling for more nerfs.... Twitter is a buzz with misinformation once more... And I bet anything BHVR will listen to them. Not the people who actually play Trickster. This update has killed this character. There is no rewarding feeling for playing him like 4.4 Trickster had...
Trickster is so misunderstood by people who dont play him, and BHVR refuses to listen to people who have mastered him. I just cant. I havent been this disappointed in a game company since EA dropped the ball on Battlefront 2.
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I have more to say...
I love this character. So Im still playing him. But every match is accepting loss and just practice in the hopes Trickster gets reverted, or play in a way that survivors complain about (though they will complain either way) to make up for his deficiencies. He is worse on console now, if you prefer to be mostly M2 killer, which was the pride of playing this character, it's just so punishing to try to perfect your aiming and practice. Laceration meter and throw rate, on top of main event being too often too short, is literally turning every match into feeling weak, slow, and more punishing for missing knives than before. Console already had enough to try and make up for, now this update added more problems. I'm trying to compensate with weak bandaid add-ons and with perks to mitigate the changes. But there is not enough perk slots or add on slots to make up for already existing deficiencies with console AND the update changes. Chases take longer when you are learning to be accurate, especially on console, and then on top of the new nerfs, its too much. I can't enjoy no recoil because everything else is so bad. I dont want to be a mostly M1 killer. Please don't force it on all Trickster players.
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Someone mentioned hotfix. I think that would be good, cause he feels so frustrating to play right now. Revert (without recoil) or consider google doc changes. Pls BHVR address soon.
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Console Trickster Main here with beginner - intermediate hours, aside from no recoil, Trickster feels like Im playing underwater and his Main Event is underwhelming and not practical in most use case scenerios. The gutting of the skill ceiling and death throes/noReload playstyle (which was not easy to achieve prePTB as people complaining about it dont understand) has left Trickster soulless. A killer that is now encouraged to be a basic m1 killer who occasionally throws knives. Trickster being labeled Moderate is deceptive, and should be labeled Hard, and its being hard (as he is outside of lower mmr) that prevents an overpopulation of people abusing spamming on survivors, not nerfing him. This killer is too unique, with too much potential, to try to force him to be an easier basic killer for general use.
Taking the time to learn accuracy and make good shots actually benefits the survivor, because it means you arent going to spam on them for the easy down. Good tricksters try to be conservative and strategic with knives, and you arent even going to be hitting survivors with a bat when they are in range....giving them a chance to escape. Again because of the pride and rewards that were in place with Main Event prePTB. The heart and soul of Trickster was learning to be accurate, reaching that no reload with Death Throes that could take a year of dedicated practice, or 4k hours was a lot of Trickster's goal...Having rewards in place like this, for being accurate, is what will prevent people from making the matches unfun for survivors, not making Trickster easier/weaker. The changes overall, missed what was rewarding about playing Trickster and nerfed him because the dev team does not understand the best way to use his power. Which is understandable, but researching and asking the right Trickster Mains could have gone a long way.
But no recoil and 4.6 is more welcoming for new Tricksters I admit. I appreciate the no recoil as a console player, its just more healthy physically, but Im not willing to trade his nerfs for it. Ive already proven that you can play Trickster well enough on console with recoil, with practice. So I'd rather have a Trickster I can be proud to play and one that feels good to play.
-Laceration Meter needs to be reverted.
-Reverting Main Event or making it just a bit shorter and longer duration like the #revertTrickster google doc suggests makes it more viable against good survivors out of low mmr
-His throw rate is awful.
-Leave no recoil, and leave 4.6 if it makes sense- 4.6 helped map traversal but again with accuracy being the goal, it doesnt give an overpowering advantage at loops because you are looking to get downs with knives and to use the bat when its necessary or critical to do so.
-Revert the add-on changes to pre PTB or PTB, with a higher skill ceiling and a longer Main Event, add-on nerfs are unnecessary.
--Talk to Trickster mains on the lacerations leaderboard, they are not just thinking about the comp level or just PC players, but for Trickster mains in general, and even survivors.
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Listen…BHVR. Look….
I appreciate the attempt to address areas that made Trickster frustrating to play. But this is not it…it misses the mark completely. It is so far removed from the strength he had in PTB, and is so unfun to play and overall more weak. He has lost his uniqueness to his special ability Main Event as a showstopping, crowd controlling, multiple survivor threatening power to…”take a hit so he wastes it, or just go behind a rock” and that works…against his “special” ability. It is not just underwhelming it literally killed what made this a threatening killer special.
The lack of build up to 4 blades p/s to static 3, and the whatever slow-motion blades p/s of Main Event, ESPECIALLY ON CONSOLE completely overshadows no recoil, makes him feel bad to use, makes main event feel bad to use on top of it being useless because of its short duration and laceration meter. Not to mention shorter duration means you can only use it one way, it feels stale and lack luster. Its mechanical, and rigid. Its no longer exciting to use Main Event especially not being a reward from achieving it in the first place. Its just a dime a dozen. It was the heart of the character....not just a way to spam a survivor.
You can no longer use main event in different ways or creatively, whether moonwalking at a tile to surprise a survivor, long shots (for faster throw rate) to down a single survivor at a distance, nor can you use it to secure a down or securing a hook as effectively against altruistic swfs (ESPECIALLY end game with the survivor 99 a gate tactic to swarm a hook, and if you though hook grabbing was awkward...) its less effective against sabo/breakout squads, overly alriutistic plays/hookfarming, or against multiple people greeding 1 gen at a time. His Main Event being weaker and less threatening means survivors don’t have to play strategically against him and this makes him boring to go against…it also takes AWAY from his map pressure now, because Main Event can easily be countered, this is a real concern in Medium to High MMR...
The laceration meter to “counter balance” this Main Event you were so afraid would be op from PTB….has nerfed him tremendously, for a Main Event that doesn’t help secure downs when it counts….Main Event is too short and too often. This nerfs Trickster for the exact players you were hoping it would help appeal to, beginner and intermediate Trickster players who are no longer in low MMR. He was already fine at MMR, he decimates lower MMR. The goal was retention wasn’t it?
He feels less fun to play because this Trickster makes me only focus on securing a down quickly by any means necessary opposed to having more room for creatively using his knives without worrying about the punishing laceration meter. This New Main Event and ALL the nerfs to make it feel “fair” for the people who never play him, hardly go against him and refuse to learn to counter him and DC, have made him mechanical and tedious to play now. He has lost his soul and energy that I got from getting good shots, or using Main Event at a clutch time.
4.6 and no recoil were meant to help bring newer Tricksters in and make him feel less frustrating, as well as thinking about console players who refused to touch Trickster because the recoil on top of joystick was incredibly hard. And I don’t want this to come off like Im not grateful for that. I do appreciate your consideration….I do appreciate 4.6 and no recoil….HOWEVER….You have completely overshadowed that with his New Main Event duration, his throw rate, and laceration decay. 4.6 was never going to make this killer op….it was just an update that I felt he just needed in general, not even a buff, just an update to the endless amount of endurance and haste perks in the game, for ascending beyond low MMR, and tackling SWFS who take good control of gen pressure across the map…….For the average Trickster. But these changes make it feel like you seriously overestimated the average Trickster player at 4.6, with average aim, which is the majority. You made things worse while offering something I think was just needed in general in return. If 4.6 is so scary to give without nerfing his strengths into the ground, gutting an entire playstyle and addons, nerfing his laceration, or throw rate. Then make him the 4.4 again, or the first 4.5 killer. Meet in the middle….Lose the nerfs, change Main Event to be an rewarding showstopper. It doesn't have to be 30 knives to build but it didn't have to be 6 or 8 knives either.
Speaking of meeting in the middle, why go to the extreme for Main Event and the nerfs to “balance” it? THAT feels like back pedaling and panic nerfing because of backlash from people who rarely play Trickster, and RARELY go against him. If newer Tricksters struggle with aim, and have trouble building main event up fast enough to be fun for them….then why not have made Main Event 15 or even 20 knives to build up main event. Hell even the 25 OP suggested is good because it usually is about 5 or less knives away from Main Event that I usually realize Im out of knives. Then you wouldn’t feel the need to have to “counter balance” with all that was taken away.
Keep Main Event longer and less often triggered, so you don’t have to nerf him into the ground, alienate an entire player base of Tricksters who play him for accuracy and skill. If the cost of new Main Event is making him unfun to play and boring, then what is the point of all of this? Trickster felt good in PTB because he was overall strong. He wasn’t OP, just very strong. Yet that was too scary? Meanwhile, Blight and Nurse get a pass? What was wrong with making him go up a Tier in strength? This Trickster feels terrible and I would prefer the prePTB and I am on console if that says anything. I am 700hr Trickster (not quite intermediate)….I have decent aim on GOOD DAYS, I struggle at higher mmr, I get gen rushed, my ankles get broken at tiles and loops, all the time... The play style of going for accuracy is difficult for me and the perks I use are to make up for his slower speed nothing aura revealing, or super oppressive. So believe me I understand the people who say Trickster is painful to play sometimes. I truly understand. But at least he feels good to use, it feels good to use Main Event and his knives, you could play him in different ways. You had the option to make it harder to play or easier to play (with the right perks and using Basic attack more). You had the option to use Main Event by just popping it whenever, to secure an injure, or 1 down, or strategically. With Trickster before this update, you could play to hit experimental shots without being severely punished (laceration decay) you could afford it because of the laceration decay. Now I feel like I cant do that, and if I want to get kills I just need to basic attack more, use main event less. And that’s so sad for such a unique killer.
This Trickster has lost his versatility and what made him threatening to swfs. Which is mostly what you are going to see as you go up MMR. I don’t want to wait for the newer Tricksters to realize this after the honeymoon phase in lower MMR with this update. But Im not sure who BHVR is listening to if not the people who have hours on this character both playing him and playing against him. I personally feel terrible about all of this because I was on PTB Trickster hype train. I was also a huge advocate for 4.6, no recoil, and giving us stronger variety of add ons. But if I knew BHVR was going to backpedal so hard from PTB, and gut my playstyle I am aiming for and rip the joy out of playing Trickster which is throwing knives not spamming them, I would have said pls just don’t attempt it then. But I know BHVR can make this right. Pls, make this right.