FootMan2893
FootMan2893
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@Deadsea said:
1. Why would they listen to Streamers ? They are people that had nothing to do with the creation of the game. Some have put thousands of hours into the game. Here's their cookie ?
2. I'll say it again, devs don't have to do anything. They don't have to do events or change killers. They do this cause they actually listen to people. Many didn't like how Billy could curve corners and down people. I'm a Billy main and I hated this.
3. They are a lot better than many game companies. Microtransactions and forced dlc is at an all time high with many companies. Angry Joe lost his mind when Valorance added $100-$350 gun skins. Behavior gives maps away for free. You can experience every survivor and killer without paying a dime. You only have to pay to play as them. They charge money (at incredibly reasonable costs) cause they have to pay their team for overhead and for creating unique killers. They have to pay money from their pockets when it comes to licensed killers cause they don't own them. These are incredibly amazing traits when EA and Activision overcharges for $60 or more dlc.
Top streamers are not only influencers that market their game and DLC for them but are also often some of the better players among the known community, which in DBD context is definitely true for the most part. It's bad business to start ignoring the people who literally grow your community for you, especially when they have far better qualifications for making sound opinions on balance changes than the developers who look at their game through a mostly statistical data and theoretical standpoint than actually have hands on experience at high level play.
Well, there's really nothing that actually stops them from doing nothing, but again that's actually horrendously bad management of your company as a business model if you make no effort at all, which is why their bottom line is largely based on appealing to the majority group of survivors on the lower end of the skill spectrum. Is it a smart business plan? Yes. Is it a ######### thing to do to your veterans and experienced skilled players? Yes.
You aren't a billy main and know nothing about the killer, or you're a very low tier killer in green ranks who still knows nothing about the role or how high ranked play works. I will make any bet you want in this world on that statement.
Just because there are worse does not make something good, especially just because said company uses a convenient game design model where they basically flash the shiny things in front of people of people to give an incentive to put money down while also avoiding having to design the game in some weird fashion that segregates people who own different DLC's. Which considering how many they are and the way everything is divided there would've been physically no way to really lock people out of maps and such without seriously scuffing the game and spending a whole lot of additional man hours in making that.
Using a free currency system to be able to buy non licensed killers is also a simple business tactic that you can find in any similar business model. They don't make their big money off the initial sale, the money is always in the after purchases of cosmetics. Though of course it's not entirely impossible to purchase certain things with blood shards, the problem is that like any other free 2 play model with free 2 play currency is that they've well adjusted the rate at which you earn it. Not even the most dedicated of DBD players will be able to grind out all the blood shards needed to buy the majority of 1 side of the character roster in a reasonable amount of time, much less the other sides character roster + all of the cosmetic items.
If it took you 10k hours (which I actually think it takes longer) to grind out every single character in the game, some dude working a basic minimum wage job could've just bought everything with just 1 week's paycheck and called it a day.
In other words what I'm saying is you're misunderstanding the standard efficient business F2P model for generosity.
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@darwinsbrain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1446234#Comment_1446234
Killer main content creators make a living getting 4ks every match. Any changes that will impact their ability to do so are seen as an attack on their livelihood. Looking to them for objective opinions on this subject is ill advised.
If we're going to assume everyone is only out for their own gain then that also means every complaint thread made by survivors are also invalid because they just want to make the game easier for themselves. See? That is not good logic.
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@Terra92 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1446234#Comment_1446234
That is a major leap in judgment there. I don't follow half the YouTubers/Streamers I follow because I agree with them, I follow them because they make funny or entertaining videos.
Maybe I'm alone in this, but I don't follow people based on whether I agree with them or not, I tend to follow them based on my own interests. Sometimes it coincides, but most of the time, it doesn't.
Not everyone for sure. But you gotta remember that a lot of people also look up to these people to learn the game from them, not just for laughs and entertainment value. It's safe to say if they weren't good and their opinions weren't valued as highly then a large chunk of their followers wouldn't be there.
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@th3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1446257#Comment_1446257
There's always stuff companies will not want being discussed before they are ready for public release. Clearly as an active developer he understands what he can and can't get into detail about. But as I've watched his stream he referred reasonable suggestions and criticism to the forums. Also I'm pretty sure they made changes based off the ptb feedback which completely contradicts your original post about them ignoring everyone.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/171729/design-4-1-0-ptb-changes
Definitely seems like they ignored feedback and if you say a majority of people wanted the overheat mechanic removed, they made it clear in the original ptb notes that while they were satisfied with the way he performed, they felt there was more needed.
He'll openly talk about other things, or even openly talk about the parts of the discussion that he wants to. it's not because he can't discuss balance changes. If he and the other developers were truly sure of being right in their decision and they thought they were guilt free then they'd have no problem openly addressing the protest against the changes and could provide a sound argument as to why they were justified in their decisions.
Not everyone is ignorant and only knows how to scream at the devs. If they could provide an open discussion with convincing arguments for their case then I know that most people would accept it. The problem is that they know if they openly contest people in a debate about it they'll have their reasoning picked apart and destroyed. It's easy to ignore people and just force balance changes because then people aren't even given the chance to fight back.
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@Bovinity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1446256#Comment_1446256
Dammit!
My meme game just not on point.
I expected so much more. I'm disappointed in you bud. You're losing your edge.
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@Pryzm said:
Nobody said that the forums are not good enough. I said they are not what you want to use to base the best opinion off of. There's Reddit forums, Steam forums, DBD Forums, there's statistics, there are in-game feedback tools, such as reporting tools. There's lots of different forms of communication. They should never take from just one form of it.
As for player base fans of streaming killers, that is a whole other can of worms. I hate when people mention Tru3 and others like him because he is a huge whiner. When he loses it is because the game is so poorly balanced. When he wins its because the survivors were so bad. He never owns up to his own mistakes and weaknesses. Streamers like that are very poor examples to use.
That still comes back to the question of what your criteria is. So if one person makes a post on reddit saying they like the changes and another person makes a post they don't like the changes on the steam forums then what are the reasons for taking one over the other? Majority vote? As I've said all of the forums seem to have the majority opinion of it being a bad change. Data collection? From who, what, and where are you taking the data from? Are you filtering the differences between ranks? Are you looking at both sides equally without bias? Are you taking into considering the meta differences between console and PC?
Also I don't disagree with you about true talent. I've stated before I think he's a good killer but I hate his personality. But that's also why I've tried to maje posts about people who are clearly unbiased and very damn well versed in the game, and even people like them are saying that the changes are definitely negative. So then what criteria does a person have to meet for them to be skilled and unbiased enough to add weight to their word? I think people like Otz, Zubat, and Scott are pretty good examples. They're good players, play both sides to a high level of play, not overly emotional or ego heavy, and they're also very understanding and sympathetic for the actual problems that both sides have to face. Even they say the changes are not good. What more could you ask for?
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@JordanMalicious said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1446221#Comment_1446221
Hillbilly has some small drawbacks, so does every killer. I think the balance changes are necessary to make him more in line with killers they've released since having a cooldown on their abilities. Hillbilly and nurse were the powerhouse killers for a very long time, now it will just take more practice to master Billy (and nurse too since her changes happened)
They are not making him more skilled to play and that's where people are assuming the wrong things. They're limiting his power, period. He'll just be the same exact killer but with more limitations tacked so that it makes him more annoying and far less fun to play for both good billy mains who work for their power and bad billy players who are the ones who should've been the targets for the nerf.
Not everything has to have a cooldown, that's called lazy game design. His limiting factor was in his skill to play, and the only things needed were a mechanic punish failed chainsaws and removal of his broken addon combinations.
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@th3 said:
Keep in mind that this unnamed person streams when they aren’t “on the clock” or working so they really are under no obligation to consider your arguments. Besides from what I’ve read and listened to, they do take feedback and discuss what they can with players who visit their discord’s or streams but they always do say there is stuff they can’t discuss.
He presents himself as an active developer, actively makes it a point of trying to encourage people to initiate feedback and discussion with him in both his stream and his private discord. So where exactly is the cut off that allows him to act like a dev when he hears things he likes and then cut himself away and say he's not obligated to anything when it's things he doesn't like? That's called double standards.
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@Steel_Eyed said:
Chances are, contrary to OP's point, the Hillbilly nerf was more likely because they listened to the community.
Wrap your brain around that for fun.
Ok then, what part of the community did they listen to? Surely it wasn't reddit or their official forums, cause the majority opinion in both cases are against it. If it was the survivor youtubers and streamers then what exactly is the criteria that gives them the right to decide balance but not the killer mains? Was it some weird hidden minority? In which case again, what allows THEM to be the one to have a vocal opinion that actually impacts the game over the others?
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@Pryzm said:
Unfortunately, many people on this forum are killers, most are killers. They are in an echo chamber when it comes to opinions and ideas. Just because this forum thinks something is good or bad does not mean they are right. It likely means the opposite. Less than 30% of the player base uses the forums. Most of them are killers. How do you expect the developers to take the feedback of that type of sample? That would be horrible for the game.
Which is exactly why I asked if not the forums then what else? If you took the combined fanbases of just people like Otzdarva, truetalent, and maybe 1 other popular killer based content creator of your choosing you'd have half the killers playerbase on PC without a doubt. While the majority won't participate in open discussion on forums they will still actively follow the people they like, and it's also extremely likely that they'll share similar opinions.
I'd say the content creators can be considered representatives of their respective communities. So the question is: If forums aren't good enough, and neither are the streamers and youtubers who represent the players, then what exactly IS good enough? that's my problem.
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@Bovinity said:
Did you really just write a wall of text that basically boils down to, "Senpai didn't notice me"?
Senpai definitely noticed, but he didn't like what he heard so he ignored me. Big sad. But yes all jokes aside this is a serious topic and developers blocking out constructive feedback because they don't like it should be cause for concern, not jokes.
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@Marcavecunc said:
I assume this is about the changes to Hillbilly. I'm most likely not the best person to criticize the changes because I only played a handful of games as Hillbilly, but I still think the changes are long overdue. With every new killer coming out having a cooldown on their power, it makes no sense that Hillbilly (and Leatherface) had instadown powers that had no cooldowns to them. Especially if you consider how Hillbilly's chainsaw allowed him to travel across the map within seconds.
And they probably checked data the same way they did when they changed Ruin.. too many games with ruin ended up with wins for killers.. Too many games with Hillbillies ended up with wins for killers.. Then they compared data if it was the perks that were at fault, or the add-ons, or simply the killer himself. And there you go, changes to how Billy works.. The same has been applied to Sally last summer, don't be surprised they went after Hillbilly next. It was long overdue.
The thing I never trusted about the "data" is variables were never mentioned and potentially never taken into consideration, that or they used selection bias to excuse their changes. When the ruin changes were made they basically told us Ruin was nerfed because it was used every game, it hurt new players who apparently couldn't learn to hit skill checks, and that it was fine because the perk was inconsistent so we wouldn't miss it anyway. Never once addressing why killers felt the need to run such a potentially inconsistent and risky perk so much.
They also quoted data from red ranks saying Ruin was used in 80% of games, then as if to preemptively strike they then told us this same logic wouldn't apply to things like DS, borrowed time, unbreakable, and adrenaline because they weren't used by the majority of survivors, self care being the most used perk but it's fine so no need to nerf. I'm pretty sure the problem here is clear from the get go that they never brought attention to the population difference, the rank difference, the platform meta difference, ect. They just pulled blanket stats and stated the ones that sounded convenient for their argument.
I'm sure if you took another data collection of DBD but this time focused mainly on purple and red ranks I'm willing to bet everything I own that you'd find that at bare minimum 2/4 survivors use some combination of these perks every match, and the closer you get to rank 1 the numbers will only go higher.
Hillbilly's limiting factor was his skill cap. If you wanted to punish bad players but not good ones you could've significantly nerfed his recovery time from misuse of the chainsaw. And yes, skill cap can and SHOULD be the most important factor when considering balance. Even a good billy who will consistently use his chainsaw optimally and will lose games in red ranks when the survivors are equally good. Even after nerfs a good nurse will still dominate games, but people are more aware of the skill ceiling involved with her so generally the community doesn't have much to complain about.
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@IronWill said:
I am sick and tired of people complaining about "second chance" perks in here. They are fine they way they are. You want the devs to remove them? Fine then give camping, tunneling and slugging a HUGE penalty. Like, for example, it will cause the killer to actually LOSE points for doing so. Hook the same survivor twice? Lose 5k bloodpoints. Slug a player? Lose some BPs overtime.
Slugging is a necessary tactic, and the higher ranked killers who state that DS is stupid are not complaining because they're camping, they're complaining because it's being abused in an offensive manner to turn it into a free 1 minute "you can't touch me" card that you can play when you want.
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@JasmineDragon said:
I play both sides at high tiers. I will say decisive doesn't need a nerf, per say, but you should not be able to use it from lockers. Its meant to be used defensively, not to charge the killer with and force him to yank you out of a locker or let you waste their time. If you call that a nerf, then fine, other than that, you are insane. Unbreakable is incredibly low tier and used as a comfort perk. I have no idea what you expect from either of these...
That was exactly what I suggested. A change suggested by both the streamer I mentioned and a community manager on the forums. DS can last as long as you want it to and if you want to make it infinite use even, but it needs to be disabled to you start to perform any of the major actions. Healing, being healed, repairing, unhooking, sabotaging, ect. The way they phrased it which I liked was DS is perfectly fine if you honestly just want to not get tunneled, but if you make the decision to put yourself back in the game by performing an action to progress it forward then you shouldn't have protection.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
@m0rtalk0mbat012 you do realise how oppressive they can be, right? If the killer knows how to pressure properly and knows where their area of focus should be at that particular point in the match, the Slowdown perks become insanely difficult to contend with.
PGTW, 25% of a gen instantly regressed. Combine that with a killer that gets quick downs and is also using action debuffs...yeah, you're really saying they aren't strong? The only time slowdonws don't have an impact on the game is when the killer plays terribly in general or makes one too many mistakes.
C'mon man, do you seriously think oppressive and highly dull gameplay needs buffing? Jeez
Pop regresses the gen by a whopping 20 seconds of solo unbuffed repair time, dropping down to 11 for 2 survivors. That's 20 seconds of repair time you're buying yourself by needed to chase, hit, chase, down, and hook a survivor. Even if the survivor is pre injured you need to get VERY lucky to have that chase last under 30 seconds.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1444383#Comment_1444383
Oh, I'm absolutely against survivors measuring the level of 'fun' by how frustrating and obnoxious they are. swf is fine, but if you do it to be a douchecanoe to feel powerful, it's not.
and as stated: balancing a game as this is extremely hard, BECAUSE you have a lot of people who play for their ego and who are usually the loudest.
I don't think there's many at the top level though. Objectively speaking with good skill Nurse is still probably the strongest killer in the game. There would be no better ego inflating than playing what's considered one of the hardest killers to master and 4k every game, but they don't do that. A lot of the best killers straight up avoid playing nurse because it's boring. You master her and even after her nerfs you're still the god of DBD. That or maybe streamers don't want to show a string of fail blinks to their audience. Probably the former over the latter though.
However billy is that perfect level. Pulling over consistent curve hits requires a lot of experience, knowledge, and skill with the sensitivity to pull off. Even with 1 hit downs he can still lose, and even with a good billy good survivors can still beat him.
Limiting that just seems dumb.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1444285#Comment_1444285
which brings us to EXACTLY the core problem:
How do we define 'fun' in this situation.
Because often people in cases like this seem to mean fun = how quickly they can win and pet their ego
Automatically assuming it's about inflating their ego is bad mistake. If we're walking into that territory then we could easily start talking about SWF and whether or not what they're doing is "playing for fun with friends" or them bullying the killers for kicks and laughs then playing the "fun" victim card when they get countered by a try hard killer.
It's a subjective matter. In this scenario I think the point is that is drastically restricts his mind gaming and position play that was central to a skill billy pulling off well made flicks, curves, ect. If the goal was to really only punish unskilled players and misuse of the chainsaw then we could've easily added an increased recovery time mechanic and not just a straight limiting factor to him. I actually made a suggestion post about that, though of course those small posts are a dime a dozen so it didn't make any impact. The idea was simply have billy's recovery from missed swings and bumps increase with his heat instead of being a straight cooldown that stops the saw.
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@ohheyitsbobcat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1444278#Comment_1444278
And you think that makes him unbiased?
Yes, actually. You've got a man who is a top tier killer in every sense of the phrase. A man skilled enough to actually push through the mechanics and gameplay that'd otherwise be considered terrible, unplayable, unbalanced, ect., by the rest of the community and stake his claim that things are actually well designed and people aren't doing it right. There's a BIG difference when you have a someone like this, a man who plays, defeats and wins against those mechanics, claiming something like gen speeds are balanced compared to a Mathieu Cote survivor main telling the killer community to "git gud".
So when he has an opinion like this I'll gladly make the claim that his statement holds more weight than anything that could come from the mouths of other lesser players, especially survivors of all people.
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@LordRegal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1444233#Comment_1444233
Nah, Otz isn't a Pig main. I think Scorpionz, though I haven't been on his stream since the Billy changes so I don't know what his opinion was.
You'd be correct, and it's exactly as I said. His exact quote is "Billy will not be bad, but it will remove the fun from playing him."
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@ohheyitsbobcat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1444151#Comment_1444151
I don't know who you're talking about but if they've never had anything bad or negative to say about this game in all the time it would take to p3 everyone then I would hardly say they're unbiased. In fact I would say they're biased in the opposite direction; that BHVR can do no wrong which is just as bad as people who get mad at everything they do.
I can't vouch for 0 things period, but from everything I've been able see so far he literally doesn't have any problem with the current game as a whole. No problems with maps, no problems with killers, no problem with gen speeds, ect. All topics that'd spark a large debate with most other people he thinks are totally fine.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
i think what OP is snarking about is that there's people who will complain about everything that throw them off their winning streaks and have them readjust?
My point, in short simple words, is that even a person who is ridiculously BHVR sided to the point where nothing bothers him still finds these changes bad. The guy literally has nothing else he seems to complain about, and he just casually decides to stomp on whatever killer he feels like regardless of what the community at large thinks about that killers viability. The dude is a pig main with actually 0 f***s given.
If even this person is disagreeing with the changes then you've clearly gone wrong somewhere.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1444151#Comment_1444151
Your writing is bombastic, which makes it hard to read. Be more direct, you don't need flowery speech full of metaphors to make a point.
I think I do in order to convey exactly what this man is about and what sort of completely out of the norm sort of killer he is.
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I think i made myself perfectly clear. There's a man who stands against negative opinions of DBD like a lone wall holding back the tidal currents of a typhoon. Ever steadfast and unwavering. But even this man, this legend of indomitable spirit, this absolutely insane in the membrane bro, still thinks the changes are a negative and unnecessary. Unlike those who have come before him he does NOT think hillbilly will end up gutted, but will definitely lose his fun gameplay.
The point is that I honestly don't think it'd be humanly possible to get a more unbiased and well weighted opinion from a top killer than this.
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@Snowbawlzzz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1442331#Comment_1442331
This isn't entitlement, this is proof that """""""anti-tunnel""""""" perks are just timed immunity that players are free to abuse for guaranteed escapes
Half the time, people with DS/Unbreakable just get off the hook and start doing gens in your face to taunt you, because they know they have a minute-long safety bubble
Funny thing, I just had another "tunneling" incident. Hooked a guy, an injured person came and suicided to unhook the guy. The unhooked guy runs back and BT dives the hook for an unhook while also having BT for the guy getting hooked. I decided to just accept it and tunnel him into a facecamp. I guess if they really want it then i just need to learn to give it to them
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Tell ya what. The moment red rank games stop being so damn optimal and unfun I'll literally drop all of my builds and just go run pallet breaker wraith every game. Nothing gives me greater satisfaction in this game than watching a pallet evaporate into nothingness in less than .000000000000000000000000000002 microseconds. But unfortunately that won't even get you 1 kill, much less allow you have a good match.
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@PrettyFaceKate said:
All this 2nd chance label is just a made-up slogan with very little basis. Perks are enhancement, for both sides. Nothing more. They had to use '2nd chance' perks to counter your '2nd chance' ability built into your basekit aka camping and tunneling. You failed preventing the generators from being completed and you can't catch them again if you leave the hook. No problem. 2nd chance by just staying with the hanging guy. See what I did there? Get over it, nobody would play a game called 'get rehooked in 1 second simulator'. That's how Deathgarden died out. You have your '2nd chance' basekit, they have to sacrifice slots for their '2nd chance' perks. Learn and move on, none of this stuff is a cheat card to a win.
Two tips:
- in the endgame, hook as far as possible from the gates.
- if they get out, don't get mad. They already completed the larger part of their objective and they've already a foot out the door, figuratively. If you manage to get many kills in the endgame, it's more a bonus for you, not some great accomplishment or amazingly skilled gameplay.
You have no clue how this game works if you think the killer has any ability to stop gens from being done against not bad survivors in red ranks. Not even perfect, no even optimal, not even good, just not bad. You're also equally delusional if you think protecting a hook is 2nd chance in anyway at all.
You're even MORE delusional if you think that any amount of camping or tunneling is happening in this game. News flash, it isn't. These perks are being abused because they're mindlessly broken and allow for things to happen that were never intended to. They aren't prevent tunneling or camping, they're rewarding survivors for bad gameplay.
Even some of the most well known neutral content creators constantly talk about how much of a joke these survivor perks and mechanics are.
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@Karl_Childers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1442950#Comment_1442950
”The totem”? You know there can be up to 5 of those dulls to prevent it, right? Terrible comparison to Legions power, not the same thing at all. Ok, so you are saying there’s no difference in time with a game where survivors spend time cleaning multiple dulls to prevent NOED vs completely ignoring them. Gotcha. Killer receives no benefit whatsoever with that time spent not on gens. Makes perfect sense.
I don’t think you know what high risk/high reward even means.
Yes. Because that means it's at most still less than a single gen's worth of repair time. With how fast objectives are completed compared to how long it takes for a killer to search, chase, down, hook, and repeat, you could actually add in an additional generator and it still wouldn't slow down good survivor teams. So no, a game where all totems gets cleansed will be no worse off for the survivor than a game without.
And for the entire game you then have to play without a fourth perk that MAY give you 1 or 2 downs in the end game before the people either escape or cleanse it.
And actually it's a great comparison. Legion's entire existence is literally just forcing survivors to deal with minor time sinks similar to cleansing totems and hoping to win off that. On an average game of legion you actually get triple the amount of deep wound procs over just those 5 little totems and he's still a pile of garbage. So on average you make survivors waste 200+ seconds compared to 70 for the totems, and legion STILL manages to be one of the weakest killers in the game.
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This has been a discussion going around since the days of hatch stand offs. The short and simple answer that came out of it all is that as killer you're expected to lose 1 kill. It's completely stupid, but that's how the devs want the game to be balanced out.
Only thing I can tell you is always run whispers on all of your builds as that's realistically the only way you can actually get 4k's unless you're a mobile killer or you get extremely lucky with the gate spawns.
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@Karl_Childers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1442725#Comment_1442725
NOED high risk/high reward?! Absolutely not. There’s no risk whatsoever. If it doesn’t activate, that means the survivors gave you time cleansing totems, so you still benefited. High risk means running something that may give you no value at all. NOED is basically a win/win.
Ah yes, you mean the laughable 14 seconds it takes to cleanse the totem? Damn, I've had it all wrong then. Legion is best killer confirmed. So get this. He has this really interesting ability that lets him stab people, and wouldn't ya know it. When they get stabbed they have to rub themselves for 12! WHOLE! SECONDS! WOW! And bruh, get this. If you slap on this purple add on he has that 12! WHOLE! SECONDS! get bumped to 14.5 FRIGGIN! SECONDS! OH MY GOD! And you can hit everyone with it. THEY'RE ALL WASTING SO! MUCH! TIME! Everyone wastes the entire game away! Holy Guacamole! It's SO broken! Kinda weird though how people call him one of the weakest killers in the game. I wonder why?
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@Aneurysm said:
Yeah some survivor perks are ridiculous and they usually get more so at endgame. But even if you're the better player you aren't going to win every game in a game like this. Good survivors die to bad killers, bad survivors escape against good killers, there's so many variables in dbd. Being too competitive about it is just gonna stress yourself out.
It's the feeling of being cheated out of something by a mechanic that has no actual way to circumvent. No matter what you do against these sort of perks you take an L in some way. That's why I hate them.
A perfect example of a truly dumb mechanic was a match on Groaning storehouse. Did you know that the center building in that map is still a technical infinite? True infinites don't exist anymore of course, but I'm talking about those godly loop setups where theoretically it's possible to get caught, but in practical gameplay if the killer is forced to chase into it he'll lose all of his gens before he downs the person. Yeah. I had a match where I unfortunately had to face against that. It was 2016/2017 all over again where the motto was "When in doubt, just run to cow tree.".
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@Babyyy_Boyy said:
You’re bragging about smashing on survivors? Why do you have such a high ego?
Because it's not me bragging about smashing them, it's me saying I rightfully won that game and deserved a 3k at the very least. Especially when it's haddonfield, every killers absolute favorite map and a totally well designed one. Probably right along side Midwich in amazing map design.
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@Babyyy_Boyy said:
You’re bragging about smashing on survivors? Why do you have such a high ego?
@PigMainBigBrain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1442716#Comment_1442716
You just explained why no one should have sympathy for your loss at this point. "Survivor teams have at least 1 moron that falls for tunneling and facecamping"
Well in your instance you just became that thing but killer side by being complacent in the middle of the match and "being nice".
Why on gods green earth, would you ever start hook pressure by an exit gate after all the generators are done.... you're making us killers look bad....
Because haddonfield is a well designed map. There was no hooks close enough that I wasn't going to have to risk running around a 5 mile long fence wall to get to and potentially drop the dude.
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Dead hard after clearly getting outplayed and Ormond.
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Had a bro david tell me my pallet breaker wraith build had him shook even though it didn't do a whole lot. I liked that david.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
Hooked near an exit gate and playing 'nice'? Yeah, why would you do that and expect them not to get out? It's not really a complaint so much as telling everyone you're borderline-entitled and didn't play that part of the game smart.
Second-chance perks are very strong, just like slowdown perks are very strong. They're both stale af to go against, but are so common due to the fact people hate the other but they both balance each out - momentum wise. I hate the meta, but until it is nerfed or a new meta is introduced, can't really moan about it in this regard.
But yet if I protect my hook in a situation where I know I should I'm called a camper and "the problem with dead by daylight" by entitled survivors who EXPECT you to sacrifice your game as the killer to pamper them and make their game fun.
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@White_Owl said:
Can you guys stop creating multiple threads everytime he makes a video?
Like it or get out. No one is forcing you to read anything I type out.
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@MiniPisa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1440632#Comment_1440632
I don't see the issue with that though. If there was a genuine personal notification like No Mither has then literally every survivor would need to run DS to not get tunnelled and no one wants that. The Obsession is random for a reason - it lets the killer know that someone has it but they don't know who or how many, but if they did know exactly who has it then they could tunnel the remaining 3 or whoever doesn't have the symbol and that's extremely unbalanced
I think I need to tell you to watch the video again because you're missing a really damn big and crucial point. NO. ONE. IS. GETTING. TUNNELED. This perk is NOT preventing tunneling. It never has and NEVER WILL. All it is doing in it's current state is giving the survivor a 1 minute window of opportunity to do whatever they damn well please while insuring that no matter what a killer does to circumvent it they will take a huge damn loss in the end. Slugging is useless. Not only because unbreakable exists but also because it accomplishes NOTHING. People aren't going to leave their gens for a hook, so why would they for a slug? All a slug does is make their teammate run by later down the road to pick him up free of charge with nothing lost on the survivors side. No time limit, no hook states lost. Nothing.
If you wait out DS that's 60 damn seconds. A solo repair gen repair is 80, and a duo is less than 50. If you eat it then that's yet another chase that has to occur where you can't predict if it'll end in 5 seconds or another entire minute. Don't tell me that if you're good then it's not a problem. No. No matter how good you are there's never a guarantee of jack ######### as where they're are on the map, how good the survivor is, and how many pallets/windows they have at their disposal is completely up in the air. He could dead hard into a tree and die, or he could die only after 2 jungle gyms, a killer shack, and a cow tree.
Having this much control over the killers game by just threatening him with the possible existence of the perk is astoundingly stupid. Unbreakable and DS are the only perks in the entire game on both sides where you're always threatened by if they have it and thus have to change how you play to deal with that risk or else it screws you right when you need it not to.
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@MiniPisa said:
Okay so i'm not against the DS thing HOWEVER that could become quite toxic. I can imagine someone with DS being completely useless because they'd want to use their perk, so they'd just be running around not doing anything.
The killer already has a notification when a survivor has DS, it's called the obsession.
And giving the killer a visual of someone with Unbreakable would make that perk completely useless, just like No Mither is.
You say there's nothing to prevent them from happening but there is - it's called not tunnelling. Ofc sometimes the killer isn't intentionally doing it, but if they're in that situation where it's either DS or Unbreakable then you're most definitely doing something to cause that scenario.
Actually completely and utterly wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_vLlMdu1Sc
Watch this, educate yourself, and come back
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@White_Owl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1440166#Comment_1440166
Yeah you just confirmed my first impression. You don't want balance, you just want an easy game.
I do want balance. The problem is I literally explained that the devs don't though. They have no intentions of buffing killers to be stronger, they want to start tuning down the actually good killers, and they refuse to do anything to touch gen speeds.
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@White_Owl said:
I disagree. The regression from Ruin already causes survivors to not leave generators until finished even if someone is on a hook, making it possible without the perk would just encourage an unhealthy playstyle. Plus you're ignoring that the biggest advantage of regressing generators is the information it gives.
We're in a time of Dead by Daylight where killers are actually expected to lose atleast 1 gen by their first hook, and then atleast 3 more by the time anyone is expected to actually die on the survivors side.
I don't know where you were in the past, but it has always been this way. Honestly it seems you want your kills to be handed over to you rather than earn them.
No I want my games to actually last longer than 8 minutes where I either kill everyone on 1 gen/0 gens or they all escape if I decided to try and be nice. I don't play Billy, Nurse, Huntress, Hag, ect. I play ######### like Legion and Doctor. The weaker killers in the game do not have what it takes mechanically to actually pressure the map and protect gens, and they don't have strong down mechanics like the others either.
But then apparently BHVR doesn't actually want those other killers to be good anyway which is why we're getting billy gutted. So how am I expected to actually have good matches when the developers neither want strong killers nor longer generator times?
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@CaptainZero said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1440012#Comment_1440012
Geez someone can't handle other people's opinions.
I said a kicked generator should do more damage/regress faster. It would probably put me off playing the game if all generators regressed automatically, as Ruin makes the game a lot less fun for me in general as I like sneaky gen builds over distraction builds.
I could've taken you disagreeing with automatic gen regression. But you had to go that extra mile and claim Ruin, a perk that has already been gutted and reworked into an almost pointless existence, is actually in need of a nerf. A perk that does literally nothing to slow down survivors who just actively repair a generator from start to finish in 1 sitting, and BARELY punishes people leaving gens. And that's ONLY if the game doesn't happily spawn one of the survivors right on top of the totem so they can claim some free points while the killer is left with 3 perks for the rest of the game. And all because you apparently want to play immersive and not have to walk away from your gen to cleanse a totem. Damn. Just, wow.
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@CaptainZero said:
I'm not sure about automatic regression, and certainly not Ruin's speed (if anything, Ruin needs a slight speed nerf).
However - I do think a kicked generator needs to regress a bit faster. Most of the time I kick a generator just to get points more than anything, and if I sneak away from a generator and the killer kicks it, I'm usually back on it within 3-4 seconds (if they are playing the game properly and not just camping it).
So you think 160 seconds, still double of what it takes for a solo survivor to repair the generator, is too fast? Not only that, but apparently that's still too strong when it's attached to an entire perk slot that can be taken out of the game PERMANENTLY from the start of the match?????
Well damn. Maybe generators shouldn't regress at all. Maybe they should have an auto repair function instead where they just repair themselves while the survivors run around with permanent sprint burst. That sounds balanced enough.
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@TheWind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1430342#Comment_1430342
I'm going to ask you some questions because you were cool enough to offer your insight if that's ok.
I understand what you're saying here, I just don't fully grasp the implications. When you call someone Sweaty or a Tryhard are you mad that they used a combination that's in your eyes unfair or because you feel like the other person is trying to actively ruin your fun?
What is the inciting emotion?
Both. What they're doing is inherently unfair and completely frustrating to play against. In the current direction of the game the developers don't want to buff killers towards being competitive against SWF because then the killers are too strong for solo queue players to really have a decent match against. On the other hand though they are infact nerfing some of the killers who were that strong so they're more on par with solo queue games but as a result are leaving the killers with fewer and fewer tools to compete against groups with.
The only killers are really capable of fighting a good group at the moment are Nurse, Spirit, Huntress, and Hillbilly. Nurse was already nerfed ontop of being really skill reliant. She can compete but she's not easy. Huntress and Spirit both have access to strong addon combinations which unfortunately will probably get eventually. Some things like Iridescent head for huntress is understandably not good for the game though. Hillbilly is currently in the process of his rework and will end up being vastly weak and much worse. It's unlikely he'll even be considered good after this upcoming PTB, much less good enough to keep up with SWF groups.
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In any other game? An insult from salty people. In DBD? People being toxic a-holes and bringing in the strongest and most optimal strats. For survivors it'd be running the meta perks with a full 4 man coordinated team in discord and playing to just rush gens as fast as possible. For killers it'd be running certain add on combinations on killers like Huntress or Spirit, then maybe bring a mori as well.
The reason why DBD can be treated differently is because everyone knows that at it's highest form of play it's unbalanced as ######### and unfun to play against. A meta built team of coordinated survivors playing well will one sidedly stomp any killer in the game regardless of how well the killer plays. A Spirit or Huntress with the right addons is just going to stomp solo queue games unless the team is somehow filled with god tier survivors. In both instances it's just not even fun gameplay, it's only purpose is to stroke an insecure ego while ruining the game for the opposite side.
There are varying lower levels of being try hard and sweaty for both sides, however a lot of that will end up being subjective. Some people will consider running Dead Hard, DS, BT, and adrenaline/unbreakable to be sweaty. Some people will consider even thinking of touching Billy, Nurse, Spirit, or Huntress to be sweaty. In those cases you just gotta decide what is what for yourself.
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@Deadnaught said:
You are in fact correct with the lack of Killer synergy.
But Hag is not one such example. I run Devour Hope, Ruin, Retribution, and Haunted Ground on her and it absolute rolls survivors in the most hilarious of ways.
I don't believe it is on behavior to tailor every single personal killer perk "With the intention of them being used by all other Killers". Especially given that half the perks are DLC-bound and the Shrine of Secrets is RNG-based. I will personally admit to having bought DLC for teachables just because I don't have the patience for the perks I'm need of to come 'round on the Shrine.
I know this is probably going to be Unpopular Public Opinion but the real base issue here is getting gud. The true show of skill is being able to perform decently (Brutal/Ruthless Killer) while using subpar or even "useless" perks as you call them. I have noticed, climbing ranks, there there is a tendency for Killers to crutch on perks rather than using them as icing on the cake. They cover poor game plays and lack of killer etiquette with perks that are overpowered, and then in threads like this complain that MORE overpowered perks are needed. While I will agree that there are many perks that are in need of a rework, this ain't it chief.
You mean because the majority of killers are weak and underpowered? Yeah, in an ideal world killers can play well without addons and perks, but reality is not that nice. The fact is a lot of killers can barely keep their head above water without some sort of effective slow down and the current perks don't cut it.
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@Deadnaught said:
Token rather than Hex Totem for Lullaby I totally agree with.
Ruin on the other hand, leave it as is. Keep in mind that Ruin is a perk that initially belonged to Hag, and her playstyle is unique in that it's very defensive. You trap her totems and take down survivors attempting to remove them, while her three personal totems hamper survivor progress. Her entire kit rewards patience and long play. Devour Hope in particular rewards you for taking the time to get five hooks and allowing their unhooks.
It's only when you attempt to use Ruin on other killers that you find the Totem harder to keep active. Combine this with the fact that due to unskilled killers crutching on NOED these days, taking out all totems in the trial has become meta more than ever, and this is something killers did to themselves. Rather than changing up Ruin, I recommend pairing it with Perks that make it more deadly. Hex: Retribution can reveal anyone who takes it out, Hex: Haunted Ground can give survivors a 66% chance of cleaning a Totem that ISN'T Ruin and Exposing themselves, and Surge can heavily compound Generator regression.
As for your opinion that double regression speed isn't enough, don't know what to tell you there. If you're already versing heavy genrush or SWF yes, the regression won't do much, but in normal pubs it allows enough of a game delay for me to be effective-again, keep in mind the original owner is Hag, whose playstyle very much benefits from game delay so she can build her other two totems.
I don't believe the argument that basing the perks balance around the killer they're attached to holds up. The vast majority of perks are useless. That's just how it is. And a good number of those perks are useless because they just don't synergize with anything and/or don't actually reward you with an effect that actually impacts the game. An even bigger problem is the fact that a lot of those perks also don't even synergize with the killers they were made for. Take a look at legions perks for instance. The only thing that kinda makes sense would be discordance because of your desire to chain stab. Huntress herself is another good example because none of her perks have anything to do with how she plays. Pyramid head is another killer that also suffers from 0 synergy with his perks. The list could just go on forever.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Ruin would be extremely OP as a normal perk. Lullaby would work as a normal perk, but I think it'd need a rework for that to make sense. I'd buff the regression for missed skill checks a bit (from 6% to maybe 8-10%) but I'd add more tokens before you get to max strength (from 5 to maybe 8).
Did you read anything of what I suggested?
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@Seiko300 said:
I prefer the term reworking rather than gutting, I don't know about the rest of ya'll but I'm not actually after an end goal of nerfing Decisive into oblivion (though honestly it might deserve that)
All I'm asking for are a few tweaks here and there controlling and limiting how it can be used, preventing people from using it aggressively and to enable confrontational plays / strategies and thus in this way forcing players to use it and benefit from it in the way it was intended: an anti tunneling perk meant to be used defensively. Nothing more.
However that is done is honestly up to the devs (as long as it f*cking works and can't be abused unlike last time's sorry excuse of a rework), although my personal recommendation would be to simply deactivate the perk when any of the following conditions are met: Survivor begins repairing a generator, cleansing a totem, sabotaging a hook, opening an exit gate, healing another teammate (stays active while healing yourself with a medkit and / or self-care), or if they enter a locker.
If the perk needs to be buffed in some way such as pausing the timer while that survivor is engaged in a chase to accommodate the numerous conditions that could deactivate the perk, be my guest.
That's kinda exactly what I put in the post. Still agree with it, but did you actually read what I typed out?
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@Sunri said:
Why killer mains are such crybabies just get gut and stop tunneling lol
Please refer to the youtube video in my edit about "tunneling"