Fix_Killers
Fix_Killers
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
What the hell is Lootbag?
A Springtrap add-on that blocks the exit gates if someone within 12 meters of them has the fire axe in their back.
Apparently doing the point emote prevents Springtrap from grabbing the Survivor, which makes him attack instead. And, once they are Down, the add-on deactivates because the axe is no longer stuck in them.And, since it's Survivors being able to invalidate a Killer add-on with a literal push of a button; Expect the fix to be very low priority.
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Give Survivors something else basekit to avoid shaking up Survivor meta that Survivors will abuse to bodyblock with. (Like they do with BT).
Then, when they go down due to bodyblocking, they will complain that it does not fix tunneling. (Again, this is what happened when BT was put in the game & later made basekit). -
@ralecgos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3948630#Comment_3948630
Remove bloodlust then. That IS your built in way to shorten chases.
Remove all gen speed perks; Getting Great skillchecks is YOUR built-in way to speed up gens.
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Because heaven forbid the Killer have a way to shorten chases!
If Survivors can't run the killer for 3+ gens before the first hit, then then Killer/the Perks are OP!
But let me guess; Survivors stacking haste, heal, or gen-speed perks is 100% fine and Killers should just deal with it?
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
Well… I guess the more they do this, the more the community will complain and the faster BHVR will have to implement base kit anti tunnelling measures.
Killers are going to force their hand again, so I figure we might as well encourage speeding up that process.
There is already basekit anti-tunneling.
Which Survivors abuse to bodyblock, get downed, and then mald that they are being tunneled.Why should they get more basekit BS to abuse?
And what will happen then? Hint: Survivors will abuse it like they do basekit BT, then mald that they are still being tunneled. -
@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947965#Comment_3947965
I feel ya.
If I come back to the area to check around and you are STILL healing at the hook. 🪝
Welp. I will down you. Not gonna waste time on the healthy person when the injured guy is right there. More pressure for me which means I can breathe a little bit more.
The amount of times I return to Survivors healing under a hook, or body-blocking with basekit B T, and then they screech that I 'tunneled' is why I hate this term.
It's like some Survivors think they should be functionally immortal & the Killer should have to eat a body-block without retaliating.
BT was created so Survivors would get away IF the Killer tunneled.
But within 24 hours; Survivors were body-blocking with it, then malding that they were still being tunneled. Like, ######### do they want? And what did they expect would happen when they grind against the Killer? -
@TheSaltySaloon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947951#Comment_3947951
So basically only the killer is allowed to have fun.
Sorry you tunnel me (or someone else) into oblivion the first minute of the match or leave me on the ground for five minutes to get a 4K I’m leaving.
It’s ok for the survivor to have the most miserable time?Hard Tunneling (especially in the first minute) is so devastating to a match or DBD. To lose a crucial player so early on practically makes the match unwinnable especially so considering the killer. Look end game have at it, it’s a free for all but the first minute?
If you being found in a match ruins your fun; Why are you playing a PvP game?
Sorry you tunnel me (or someone else) into oblivion the first minute of the match or leave me on the ground for five minutes to get a 4K I’m leaving.
So you're admitting you ragequit because you were losing. Cool. Hope I never run into you when I play Survivor.
It’s ok for the survivor to have the most miserable time?
Again; The Killer's goal is to kill you. To win. It's not on him to babysit you and ask 'Did you have fun?' before he kills you.
If you find being killed in a PvP game unfun; Stop playing PvP games. Because your opponents goal IS TO KILL YOU.Hard Tunneling (especially in the first minute) is so devastating to a match or DBD.
If you get 'Hard tunneled' in under a minute; That's a skill issue.
Weird how Survivors are fine with popping 3 gens before the Killer gets 1 hook, though.
When Killers comment on gen speeds, they get told to suck it up. 🤷♂️To lose a crucial player so early on practically makes the match unwinnable especially so considering the killer.
That's…Part of the Killer's goal?
You're acking like any Killer that kills you before Endgame is being toxic. JFC.Look end game have at it, it’s a free for all but the first minute?
Oh, so Killers are only allowed to kill after 5 gens pop?
When all Survivors have left is opening one or two Exit gates?
And you think that's reasonable to expect?Talk about entitlement.
"The killer can only kill in the endgame!" Yeah, no. Depending on the Killer, and on Survivor perks, that can be outright impossible if all 4 Survivors are still alive.May as well just say "Hey devs! Remove all death hooks until we do 5 gens, so we get the Survivor Mandated® Fun Time™"
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Honestly if killers wanna tunnel and slug so be it just remove the DC penalty.
So Killers wanting to apply pressure & win should let Survivors DC for free because such tactics are not Survivor Approved™?
Ok. So if Survivors keep returning to the same generator after a Killer kicks it; The Killer should be able to DC for free, right?
After all, 'Tunneling' is literally just trying to kill a Survivor (You know; THE KILLER'S MAIN GOAL) quickly.Oh, but here comes the 'It'S dIfFeReNt!' squawking from Survivors. That Killers should not be able to play effectively because their goal involves removing someone from the game. And that's mean. 😢
All Killers are required to play off-meta when demanded, and play inefficiently as possible, so Survivors get the Survivor Approved™ amount of Fun from every match!Oh, but if Killers say 'Stop slamming gens' or 'Play off-meta' to Survivors? The reply is 'Lol. No. Why should I care about your fun?' and 'Git gud'.
Here’s a thought, how bout a penalty for killers who immediately tunnel one survivor out?
AHAHAHAHAHAHA! No.
Force killers to rotate hooks.
Force them to lose, you mean. Rotating hooks usually results in a 3-4 man escape.
Like an invisible timer for 2:30 minutes where they can’t just immediately mow down a single player.
Two and a half minutes of immunity to being re-hooked?
I'm sure the purely pure-good-super-special-awesome-amazing-never-bad Survivors will never abuse that! -
So escape rates that don't differentiate between low and high level play are the Survivor's proof?
For all we know, there's enough low-level Survivor groups dragging the average down by 10% or more.
But those rates will be used as the be-all, end-all proof that Survivors need more perks and Killers need to be controlled so they can't do anything Survivor's don't like. -
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947319#Comment_3947319
brother, the game hasn't been survivor-sided in half a decade.
If you still have issues, seems like it might be a you issue.
Oh please. I may have just joined the forums, but I've peeked in off and on for years.
You've been insisting that the Survivors are weaker in spite of every Survivor buff for years.
Survivors have had everything they want handed to them basekit so they can still play META, and they still want more, more, and more.I'd say Survivors want NPC Killers, but what they really want is NPC Killers with human players tied down to play them, so they can taunt a human while still getting the EZ wins they demand with every update.
Case in point:
People wanted a QoL feature (I cannot remember which one off the top of my head). The devs threw in gen-kicking limitations at the same time, because Survivors need to be coddled.Survivors wanted anti-tunneling. Were given basekit BT. Whine it's not enough.
Survivors wanted anti-camping. Were given a literal anti-camp timer. Whine it's not enough.
Killers wanted a way to regress exit gates for over 5 years. What does BHVR do? Make it a perk, which ruins METAs. Because Killers don't deserve nice things.
Survivors have been gift-wrapped multiple ways to counter Killer tactics they hate, all without messing up META perk loadouts.
And yet you really think the game has not been Survivor-sided for years?
You either have 0 clue, or you're outright lying.A SWF 4-man with 16 META perks will wipe the floor with ANY Killer by any player, regardless of perks, except the top 0.5% players like Otzdarva.
But Survivors will wave their hands and say 'That does not count!' Because they want more basekit BS. More Killer hand-tying, and more easier wins. -
@mecca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947319#Comment_3947319
I am so sorry but that is a straight up story telling. I don't even know where to begin but what I am referring to are advantages to an unprecedented level. BHVR scams survivors with overpriced bright colored cosmetics so killers can see them easier while selling overpowered abilities on playable killer characters. So you are right they are indeed making money on survivors but it is because they know no better. There is not a single purchase able item for survivors that helps them win.
Basekit features:? You mean half baked? Killers still tunnel easily through endurance. Anti camp translates to "ok, I'll stand a few more meters away from the hook".
It is literally so killer sided it really is like a PvE game. Killer feels like playing on baby mode and survivor is like any other game on the hardest difficulty but the problem is no ability to change the settings. You are stuck in misery and here we are punishing people for expressing it or experiencing it.
I am so sorry but that is a straight up story telling
Projecting.
I don't even know where to begin but what I am referring to are advantages to an unprecedented level.
Lying.
BHVR scams survivors with overpriced bright colored cosmetics so killers can see them easier while selling overpowered abilities on playable killer characters.
Rofl. And Survivors are sweet babies who can't decide for themselves what cosmetics to buy or use?
So you are right they are indeed making money on survivors but it is because they know no better.
More 'Survivors are pure, innocent people abused by mean, entitled Killers!' tripe. 🤢🤮
There is not a single purchase able item for survivors that helps them win.
That would be called 'Pay to win', and Survivors would all use any cosmetic that 'helps them win'.
But thanks for ousting yourself as a Survivor Main who thinks Survivors deserve P2W cosmetics.
Basekit features:? You mean half baked? Killers still tunnel easily through endurance. Anti camp translates to "ok, I'll stand a few more meters away from the hook".
Give Survivor Mains an inch, and they want 10 miles.
They are handheld and gifted basekit features left, right & center, and demand more.
It is literally so killer sided it really is like a PvE game.
No, it's not. But Survivors have been screeching this line for nearly a decade. Though every buff and basekit reward they have been gifted.
Entitlement.
Killer feels like playing on baby mode and survivor is like any other game on the hardest difficulty but the problem is no ability to change the settings. You are stuck in misery and here we are punishing people for expressing it or experiencing it.
Tell another funny joke.
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I wish.
It would also help with cheater reporting, as a player could go back after a match and record from the replay.
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Ah yes, so I should not do anything that makes my opponent sad.
Which is, by being my opponent and thus opposed to me winning, EVERYTHING.
Tunneling is not bad (Only salty Survivors say it is!).
Flashlight saves are not bad.Stop trying to force everyone to play to your personal standards. JFC.
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@dbd900bach said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947297#Comment_3947297
Its kind of a weird discussion to me because what exactly is classic Dbd? We're talking about a decades worth of changes so where exactly does the classic dbd fall onto? Does it fall into an version from eight or nine years ago? Maybe seven? If people got a classic mode back, it would be nostalgic for a few games and then the extremely glaring issues and lack QOL changes we're use too would bleed through like an open vein.
People like to remember the good but forget the extremely scummy bad that a lot of people hated more than anything.
Gods. I forget the youtuber but, way back when DBD was new, there was an infinite near a stone wall with a large tree. I think a pig carcass is in that tree?
The youtuber, in an amazing attempt to b ring awareness to infinites, spent an hour chasing a Survivor around that loop before giving up.
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Honestly, all they had to do was make it so trying to get off the hook does not progress stages:
- You get your two attempts to get off the hook. Failing does not progress the bar.
- For each failed attempt to get off the hook, you suffer a penalty (To be determined. Could be longer to be healed. Reduced repair times for a duration. Whatever). Just something to punish trying, so Survivors aren't expecting two 'free' escape attempts.
- In Stage 2, every failed skill check does not cause progression.
- Failing imparts another (Or the same) penalty.
- If a player runs at the killer to give up, repeatedly vaults/enters & exits lockers/anything else to throw the match; Those actions should be reportable under 'Unsportsmanlike conduct'.
Bam! No more 'Hook DCing' from salty players! And without a buggy system that is causing more issues than it solves at the moment.
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@mecca said:
The game is treated as a boss player versing 4 NPCs. They make money for killers so the survivors are there for the pleasure and sole entertainment for the one player to have fun and easily winning.
When you realize everything centers around killers and their advantages in a video game it makes sense.
Imagine thinking BHVR makes more money on 1 Killer per 4 Survivors.
It reads like mecca just took a Killer complaint (IE: BHVR makes more money on Survivors, because there's 4 of them per match to 1 Killer) and felt like turning it around without doing anything more than switching the roles.
This game has been Survivor-sided for years. Every complaint Survivors had has been addressed with baked-in mechanics and b asekit upgrades to avoid interrupting their 16 META perks on 4-man SWF loadouts.
And yet this brain trust thinks Survivors are being treated as NPCs. 😂 -
@KaTo1337 said:
DStrike after every Hook-Stage by Default would help.
ROFL. Sure. Let's go for the most broken idea.
Now Survivors can bodyblock without fear! They have BT basekit and, if they go down, they get free DStrike!
The Killer has no choice but to hit them when they bodyblock (Which Survivors will screech is 'Tunneling'), and then has to leave them on the ground (Which they will complain is 'Slugging'). 😂 -
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947124#Comment_3947124
Tunneling is not a bad habit. It's a valid tactic.
It's a bad habit if that's all the killer player knows how to do. Which, going by how many people claim you "have to" tunnel and camp every game, seems to be quite a few.
Something is only a "tactic" if you have options and, specifically, situations where you can use that to peak effect. And you generally want to change tactics in response to gameplay.
Something like "stealth" for survivors is a valid tactic, because there are times you do want to be hidden. But you shouldn't excessively use that one tactic, and you're intentionally switching tactics in response to your PVP opponent.
So, tunneling can be a tactic, and should be, but for an awful lot of people, it's the only way they play, and they never switch tactics, not by choice, circumstance, or even in response to other players gameplay.
And for people who only know how to camp and tunnel, yes. It's a bad habit that is preventing them from learning anything else, and from learning the fundamentals of gameplay.
Why do entitled Survivor mains always think they can decide what's good or bad, or a valid tactic or not, for their opponent?
Interesting choice, since this 9.0 patch is basically the nail in the coffin for stealth play.
I've been asking a similar question for years: since it's a primary function of the killer role to hunt survivors, why is stealth such a problem?
Because with this very patch, you have that sneaking, hiding, and stealth has basically been deleted and hard punished. And, I'll point out, by the "request of entitled killers" as you put it.
Now, I'd say the same thing here: that if stealth is the only tactic a survivor uses, then there's a problem. But we've already addressed distortion, and added an abandon option to prevent hostage situations. But even after all of that, deleting stealth is the option they went with.
So maybe you should ask why you think tunneling should get special treatment and still be the one and only way people are allowed to play every game, especially if it ruins the match for most everyone else.
It's a bad habit if that's all the killer player knows how to do
So, basically, if the Killer uses tactics to win, and never stops using tactics to win; It's a bad habit.
I never knew 'Trying to win' in a PvP game is considered bad.Something is only a "tactic" if you have options and, specifically, situations where you can use that to peak effect. And you generally want to change tactics in response to gameplay.
Judging by how it works; It's being used to peak effect.
Oh right, but Survivors say otherwise. And since our Survivor Overlords have decided it's NOT being use effectively (even th ough they are complaining that it works); It's not a REAL tactic and is just a 'bad habit'.
And, last I checked, Killers don't tunnel 100% of the time, which means they ARE changing tactics as the game goes on.So which is it?
Is it being used effectively, which Survivors whine about it killing them, so it's a tactic as per your definition?
Or is it NOT being used effectively, in which case Survivors should shut up and counter it?Oh, right; It's whatever Survivors want, in order to whine it's too effective while telling Killers it's not a real tactic.
Schrodinger's Tactic.Something like "stealth" for survivors is a valid tactic, because there are times you do want to be hidden. But you shouldn't excessively use that one tactic, and you're intentionally switching tactics in response to your PVP opponent.
And Killers don't tunnel every second of every game. Therefore they are switching tactics.
So, tunneling can be a tactic, and should be, but for an awful lot of people, it's the only way they play, and they never switch tactics, not by choice, circumstance, or even in response to other players gameplay.
So the tactic is flawed because some Killers don't improve, and thus it needs to be removed/nerfed for ALL Killers?
And for people who only know how to camp and tunnel, yes. It's a bad habit that is preventing them from learning anything else, and from learning the fundamentals of gameplay.
And those people never improve, and get wrecked by better players.
But sure; We should remove it or stop calling it a tactic because a small subset of Killers don't improve.I've been asking a similar question for years: since it's a primary function of the killer role to hunt survivors, why is stealth such a problem?
Because stealth gameplay does not further the Survivor objective. Going immersive has been a meme for years, and even other Survivors have complained when they get an Immersed teammate who ignores gens.
Because with this very patch, you have that sneaking, hiding, and stealth has basically been deleted and hard punished. And, I'll point out, by the "request of entitled killers" as you put it.
And camping was nerfed at the request of Survivors.
And kicking gens was nerfed at the request of Survivors.
And Survivors were given specific anti-tunneling perks, only to whine that they 'don't want to play off-META' and said anti-tunneling should be basekit.
Oh yeah! Let's not forget Borrowed Time was essentially made basekit…and Survivors are complaining it's not enough.Literally every time Survivors have malded about a Killer tactic, BHVR has given them a basekit counter. And yet they continue to whine that more needs to be done to handcuff Killers.
Don't play this way.
Don't play that way.
Only bad Killers do x, y or z.
X, y or z is not a valid tactic.
We want Killer vetos, because we don't want to see META Killers.At this point, Survivors want Killer bots, but with a player tied down in their chair so they can taunt a human.
So maybe you should ask why you think tunneling should get special treatment and still be the one and only way people are allowed to play every game, especially if it ruins the match for most everyone else.
It's not 'special treatment'. Survivors were given basekit BT and then said 'Not good enough.' and pretend it's never been addressed.
Because Survivors want to win, and anything that Killers do against that is bad/unfun/not a tactic. -
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946752#Comment_3946752
Playing a whole set to counter a bad habit of the other side is the saddest thing I've ever heard. Same level than killer playing lightborn to avoid flashsaves abuse, or Iron grasp to avoid sabo squads
Tunneling is not a bad habit. It's a valid tactic.
Why do entitled Survivor mains always think they can decide what's good or bad, or a valid tactic or not, for their opponent?
Is it a 'bad habit' for Survivors to try completing that 75% done gen? No?
Then why is it a 'bad habit' for Killers to go after the wounded, already-hooked Survivor for easy pressure?
Oh, right, because Survivors think 'my fun' is more important than their opponent winning.Weird how that tired excuse never works in reverse. Survivors can 4-man SWF with 16 META perks and then say 'Git gud' to Killers.
But Killers winning in non-Survivor Approved™ ways? 'Bad habit!' and 'What about my fun?'Also, playing Lightborn and Iron Grasp to avoid being shafted by Survivors is not a 'bad habit'. How entitled are you?
Is the Killer not allowed to counter anything Survivors do? Should he just walk to each pallet and allow a stun? Do you think he's a bot or a BHVR employee meant to give you BP? -
@Langweilig said:
- Dcing was punished to harsh. If people don‘t want to play out their match, they should be allowed to leave and give their teammates a bot.
- Giving up on hook was too easy to do.
- Ending yourself on hook bypassed the dc penalty, which encouraged people to end themself rather than dcing and giving their team a bot.
- Too many unfun maps and killers for survivors.
- Camping and tunneling. Self explaining.
- The survivor experience was neglected for far too long.
- Skull merchant.
I also agree with your points GeneralV
Dcing was punished to harsh. If people don‘t want to play out their match, they should be allowed to leave and give their teammates a bot.
No. People should not be able to ragequit just because brainless bots exist.
Don't queue up if you're going to ragequit & ruin the match for everyone else.Too many unfun maps and killers for survivors.
Sorry but the Killer doe snot have to pick who they play based on Survivor 'fun', or, with a large enough player base; every Killer would be banned except the easiest to beat.
Camping and tunneling. Self explaining.
Not really. This just says Survivors will quit if the Killer breaks made-up rules.
The survivor experience was neglected for far too long.
ROFL! Survivors are coddled with EVERYTHING they want to counter Killers being made basekit so their precious meta remains untouched.
But they always want more, more, more. -
@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3945536#Comment_3945536
I don't know.
Do you REALLY need a 4-man SWF?
Do you REALLY need everyone to bring 4 meta perks?
Do you REALLY need to try out the latest content creator build that 'makes Killers ragequit!'
High MMR 4 man swfs still have a sub 50% 4-man-out escape rate, those are official BHVR stats from this year. Less than 1% of lobbies are 4 man swfs running 16 meta perks. The average kill rate is 60%, meaning 7.2 hooks, rounding up is 8 hooks. That's the AVERAGE kill rate.
Seeing you try to throw what I said back in my face and failing shows me you really don't understand the issue and just want survivors to accept your complaints without you hearing theirs. That is literally the case in point of what I was talking about.
Survivors queue up with a 60% chance of getting sacrificed, and a 25% chance of not really playing the match if the killer decides to play meta. Killers load up and wonder how many 4k win streaks they can get. Do you see the difference?
The only 'difference' is you making up BS numbers to cry about how hard Survivors have it, and how it's all Killer's faults, and Killers should stop trying to win because it makes Survivors sad.
These are not made up numbers. Solo queue players have a 40% escape rate from the same BHVR data I referenced. That means they get sacrificed 60% of the time. 25% of the time (1 out of 4 survivors) they are the first caught, and by your logic, are the first to get tunneled out. Math isn't difficult.
Killers are not your hired help.
They are not employees.
They have every damn right to try winning, same as Survivors.
And I am sick and tired of Survivors malding that Killers need everything they do heavily policed ecause 'I'm sad I lost! 😭'
These comments are hilarious when you want survivors to be fodder for the killer player's enjoyment based on your statements. 🤷
Nowhere did I say I want Survivors to be fodder. I even agreed that gen rushing is not a real thing.
But keep swinging at that strawman, because you have literally nothing else to go after. 🤷♀️
Survivors are so spoiled in this game that their own screeching points are BS they say for the Killer, then act like the Killer said it.
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OP is a troll. Every post form him is 'Everything Killer is OP' with sweeping generalizations and outright falsehoods.
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@Frost139 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3945531#Comment_3945531
How is killer horrible when the game is killer sided?
Rofl.
Every time Survivors mald; Whatever they want becomes baskit 'To avoid ruining the meta'.
Meanwhile, Killers have wanted exit gate regression, and it comes out as a META-interrupting perk.Sell your BS to someone else, because I'm not buying.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3945504#Comment_3945504
It's not your fault that the killer meta makes survivor an absolute hell on earth experience, nor is it your fault for wanting to win. But at a certain point, do you REALLY need that 3rd or 4th slowdown perk? Do you really need to try out the latest content creator build that "makes survivors give up!!!!!" to see it for yourself? People want to play the game. These metas prevent at least one survivor from really playing the game. God forbid you get a 3k instead of a 4k. Heavens to Betsy if you walk away from a match with a 2k. Survivors queue up with a 60% chance of getting sacrificed, and a 25% chance of not really playing the match if the killer decides to play meta. Killers load up and wonder how many 4k win streaks they can get. Do you see the difference?
But at a certain point, do you REALLY need that 3rd or 4th slowdown perk? Do you really need to try out the latest content creator build that "makes survivors give up!!!!!" to see it for yourself?
I don't know.
Do you REALLY need a 4-man SWF?
Do you REALLY need everyone to bring 4 meta perks?
Do you REALLY need to try out the latest content creator build that 'makes Killers ragequit!'God forbid you get a 3k instead of a 4k. Heavens to Betsy if you walk away from a match with a 2k.
God forbid you get a 3 man escape instead of a 4 man escape. Heavens to Betsey you walk away from a match with a 2 escape.
Hell, I've seen Survivors say that they expect to be given the hatch if they are the 4th survivor.
Not 'It would be nice if' but 'The Killer has to do this, or they are toxic'.Survivors queue up with a 60% chance of getting sacrificed, and a 25% chance of not really playing the match if the killer decides to play meta. Killers load up and wonder how many 4k win streaks they can get. Do you see the difference?
The only 'difference' is you making up BS numbers to cry about how hard Survivors have it, and how it's all Killer's faults, and Killers should stop trying to win because it makes Survivors sad.
Killers are not your hired help.
They are not employees.
They have every damn right to try winning, same as Survivors.
And I am sick and tired of Survivors malding that Killers need everything they do heavily policed ecause 'I'm sad I lost! 😭' -
@Frost139 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3945199#Comment_3945199
yes if the majority find something unfun it gets changed, same as the rest of the qol phase 2 changes
No wonder playing Killer is horrible; Entitled survivors think they can outlaw legit tactics by whining.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3945467#Comment_3945467
No, the problem is that killers expect survivors to not take getting tunneled personally due to your reasoning, but then take everything personally that happens to them. Getting "gen rushed" is a phrase invented by killers who lost their first chase as a way to deflect blame to survivors. If getting tunneled is "doing the objective" then "gen rushing" is also "doing the objective." Chasing a survivor with 4 second chance perks out of spite is taking it personally. Bringing lightborn for someone who has a flashlight is taking it personally. The list goes on and on. Survivor players hate being told that they just have to "suck it up and enjoy not having fun, but don't take it personally!!" when on the flipside, you can't go one thread without hearing "toolboxes this, medkits that, genrush genrush genrush, heal tech, body block, etc." It gets very tiring.
No, the problem is that killers expect survivors to not take getting tunneled personally due to your reasoning, but then take everything personally that happens to them.
I mean, some do. I don't.
Getting "gen rushed" is a phrase invented by killers who lost their first chase as a way to deflect blame to survivors.
You are correct.
I first started using it around the time Survivor's started complaining about 'Proxy camping' and tunneling. I was hoping to shed light on the fact that 'playing to win' is not a crime.If getting tunneled is "doing the objective" then "gen rushing" is also "doing the objective."
Correct. Both are doing the objective as efficiently as possible.
Chasing a survivor with 4 second chance perks out of spite is taking it personally.
The problem is; Survivors assume everything is out of spite. And this goes for Killers as well.
I once had a Claudette accuse me of racism because I 'tunneled' her out.
You what to know how I 'tunneled'? I ran into her 3 times. She was the WORST on her team at avoiding me, so I randomly found her before I saw any other teammates.
Was that her being bad? Nope!
Was it bad luck? Naw!
It was obviously me tunneling her because she was Claudette! In her mind that was the only rational explanation. That I was a filthy tunneler and targeted her.Bringing lightborn for someone who has a flashlight is taking it personally.
I hope this is an example I am somehow missing context for. Because if not, it's a wild take.
Survivor players hate being told that they just have to "suck it up and enjoy not having fun, but don't take it personally!!" when on the flipside, you can't go one thread without hearing "toolboxes this, medkits that, genrush genrush genrush, heal tech, body block, etc." It gets very tiring.
Funny thing is; The opposite happens, too.
Killers (Like me) get tired of being told to 'play off-meta!' because 'I'm tired of seeing meta killers!'
Of being told 'Stop using meta perks! It's boring!'
Of being told every, single tactic is wrong, toxic, unfun, bad for the game, and 'only bad Killers do <insert tactic here>'!
Camping? Bad!
Tunneling to create pressure? Toxic!
Slugging (Which some Survivors think means 'Pick up NOW, even if you know someone is going to flashlight save!'? UNINSTALL!
'Proxy camping' (A term Survivors invented when Killers tried to stop camping, to say 'You are still too close/Come back too fast')? Stop playing!Each side seems to have it in their head that 'Trying to win' is bad, because it means THEY lose.
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@HeyWillson said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3945386#Comment_3945386
lolballs …. Speaking of "poor sportsmanship" that is exactly what slugging, tunneling, and camping actions are by killer players.
One other commentor here pointed out another aspect of "poor sportsmanship" of survivors who pallet stun killers and blind them, sometimes repeatedly in my experience, or do the same at dropped pallets when the killer goes for the break.
The concept of poor sportsmanship is rife on both sides and you are very clearly missing the point - when a survivor clearly sees they will be left hanging for the remainder of their time in the match, it is better to leave sooner than later. This mechanic change just forces those hooked survivors to have to endure essentially doing nothing for some or most of the game.
Self-unhooking is an exlicit game mechanic or it would not be an in-game function. It is a risk-reward part of the game and Behaviour has effectively nerfed it for whatever reason. Maybe the louder voices here made their case that it was happening too much.
imo slugging, tunneling, and camping happen too muvh and these are NOT game mechanics, they are player choices that just happen by interating with the other players. There inlies the difference.
Is "we" don't want the self yeet, remove it completely and let the stages flow as they may. The overall Luck mechanic is incredibly weak as it is, so why bother sustaining it? It's like keys which, since the change to hatch spawning, are all but useless. In fact, you actually have to work harder and blow more perk slots to even try to open a hatch with a key lol
Love and earworms!Speaking of "poor sportsmanship" that is exactly what slugging, tunneling, and camping actions are by killer players.
So trying to win, if it makes your opponent unhappy, is 'poor sportsmanship'? Nah.
One other commentor here pointed out another aspect of "poor sportsmanship" of survivors who pallet stun killers and blind them, sometimes repeatedly in my experience, or do the same at dropped pallets when the killer goes for the break.
Pallet stuns and blinding are not poor sportsmanship, either. They're ways to slow down the Killer and/or save a teammate.
I'd make an argument that t-bagging and rapid flashlight-clicking on Survivor's side, or repeatedly revving a chainsaw in a Survivor's face (Bubba and Billy), t-bagging repeatedly (Pig, Ghostface) and the like ARE poor sportsmanship.
Along with staying in the exit gate to taunt the Killer.The concept of poor sportsmanship is rife on both sides and you are very clearly missing the point - when a survivor clearly sees they will be left hanging for the remainder of their time in the match, it is better to leave sooner than later. This mechanic change just forces those hooked survivors to have to endure essentially doing nothing for some or most of the game.
That's an inherent flaw in the hook system, honestly.
I saw an idea, years ago, when I browsed here & Steam, that someone had. It's too late to use it, but it's nice:
Moris replace all hooks.
When a Survivor is Mori'd, they become a ghost. They can run around the map. They cannot see Survivors or Killers. Or Gens or Totems. To avoid 'scouting' in a SWF.
They have a countdown before they can respawn. Afterwards, they can respawn at-will.
After being Mori'd 3 times; they are out.Or, alternative gameplay loop:
They can be mori'd infinitely, and the Killer's goal is to simply prevent them from escaping in a time limit. Which means the removal of kicking gens & changing gens to be more interactive to progress (IE: No holding M1. You need to find parts, work for a bit, find more parts, etc).
If Survivors ultimately escape before time is up; They win.
If the Killer prevents them from escaping before time is up (Or kills them all during the EGC); He wins.Sadly, this will never happen.
imo slugging, tunneling, and camping happen too muvh and these are NOT game mechanics, they are player choices that just happen by interating with the other players. There inlies the difference.
They are tactics to slow down the game, since the devs, in their infinite 'wisdom', stacked so many gen-speed perks and healing perks, Survivors can pop 3 gens in the Killer's first chase.
Even if the chase is quick.
At that point, the Killer HAS to knock someone out of the game as fast as possible, to slow down any more progress.
Problem is; Survivors keep claiming the Killer trying to win by taking out the weakest link (The person he caught first & can catch again) is somehow 'poor sportsmanship'.Is it 'poor sportsmanship' for Survivors to return to a gen they got to 75%? No! It's 'doing the best objective'.
So why is it 'poor sportsmanship' for the KIller to take out the wounded Survivor who was already hooked once? It's one less hit (So a shorter chase) and Stage 2 (Requiring saving sooner).Oh, because it affects a player instead of an object like a gen. So OF COURSE the Killer should be required to not do that. Because losing is not fun and that's the Killer's fault. Somehow.
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@HeyWillson said:
Wow, love ALL the changes in patch 9.0.0, don't change anything! Thanks to this update I now have a whole raft of useful items including:
Chalk Pouch of Go Next
Salt Pouch of Go Next
Cream(y) Chalk Pouch of Go Next
Ivory Chalk Pouch of Go Next
Black Salt Statuette of Go Next
and
Vigo's Jar of Salty Lips of Go Next
It's a wonderful little pattern!
More seriously, Behaviour, you addressed the one aspect of play that is lowest on my list of game user attitudes and practices. The top BS problem that is happening all the time in matches is killers slugging, which is why survivors are giving up on hook and trying to free themselves from that state to at least move on to another match or, if successful, at least play the game.
The other aspects that are new killers getting a free end game mori is contributing to slugging and 'slug camping'. And since the anti-camp mechanic is disabled in end game, no one on hook wants to hang around watching the rest of the survivors dally about mindlessly,
The game has gone the wrong direction, imoThe top BS problem that is happening all the time in matches is killers slugging, which is why survivors are giving up on hook and trying to free themselves from that state to at least move on to another match
Oh please. Every time I find someone before 3 gens pop; they give up on the hook.
Slugging, tunneling, and camping are just excuses Survivors use to blame everything and everyone except their own poor sportsmanship.I, for one, was 100% done with Survivors hook-DCing just because:
- They were found too fast
- They were found first
- I was using a Killer they don't like
- I was using a perk or perks they don't like
- They got a map they don't like
Etc. Etc.
Claiming hook-DCing is the Killer's fault is pure copium. -
@Frost139 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3945164#Comment_3945164
We can if the strats are deemed toxic or unfun just like the devs aare doing now with tunneling, slugging and camping
So, basically, you think you can control the Killer if you call anything you don't like 'toxic' or 'unfun' and screech loudly enough?
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@Frost139 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3945106#Comment_3945106
Yes you should eventually commit to chase
That's the Killer's choice.
It's not 'toxic' to do anything Survivor mains don't like. Stop thinking you can dictate how your opponent plays or wins.
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So now the Killer picking which chases he commits too, and deciding which pallets to break, are 'unfun' and 'toxic' strats?
This is either bait, or someone thinks the Killer having any free will is wrong. 🙃
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Why learn to play against a new Killer when you can just claim they are OP and demand they be nerfed?
"It's never my fault." - The Survivor Main Motto.
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Survivors are unhappy that they can't beat him, since he is new and they have not learned his power or how to play around it.
But it's so ingrained in the Survivor play style; Either win, or use any excuse to DC while saying 'It's not my fault I have to DC!'
I see it from Survivor team mates when I pub:
First down? Quit on hook.
Found 'too fast'? That's a quit!
It's a Killer the player does not want to learn to counter? Hook DC!
It's a perk the player hates? Time to run at the Killer to hook DC!This game has, for years, fostered this mindset that Survivors will win, or they can hook DC to avoid DC penalties.
Now that Go Next is a thing; They are acting like children told 'No, you can't do that.' for the first time after 8 years of getting whatever they want.BHVR has capitulated to Survivor demands for years: Anti camping was made basekit (To avoid the precious Survivor META); Anti tunneling was made basekit; Slugging would be 'looked at'.
Every time Survivors complained, BHVR gave them what they wanted.So now that they can't hook DC to avoid Killers they hate & new Killers they don't want to learn; They are angry they have to play the game.
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@Sheffield said:
In every Match with the new Killer i or we have no Terro radius. This is Game braking.
I'm really angry because he can easily pull me off the Generator every round.😡
Use your eyes and ears, instead of staring at the generator and ignoring your surroundings.
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Ah yes. Let's nerf Killers just because Survivors DC against them. That's in no way abusable!
Survivors will DC against literally anything they don't like. From 'I was found first' to 'I am not having fun at this very moment' to 'I personally don't like that Killer/Perk/Map'.
Allowing them to control what gets axed by them being salty would be horrid.
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Remember:
Killers tunneling/camping/'proxy camping' (Not a real thing)/slugging/patrolling nearly-completed gens/using META Killers or Perks is bad and 'unfun' and 'rude' and Killers should 'think of Survivor's fun!'@vol4r said:
"Mechanic" was abused too much. It is person's decision to play this way, people chose it and tunneling mechanic comes to dbd because of it.
Making the game miserable for 4 people just so one person can be happy is wrong.
People leaving the game because it's unfun. If people can't find fun in a game so they move to another one.
That's the case for a lot of people.This this person said; Killers should think about their opponent's enjoyment! Which means playing sub-optimally!
But Survivors in a 4-Man SWF with full META perks trying to win in under 60 seconds is perfectly fine!
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What I don't get is why the devs don't put in checks & balances?
Like, program an upper limit on movement speed based on their own perks, and have the game auto-flag anyone who goes over that.
Program in a height limit & depth limit; Auto-flag anyone who goes past those numbers.
If a person has 30+ player reports of 'Flying' and the game says they went 40 meters in the air; They are probably cheating.
I get that this does not catch the subtle cheaters, or the wallhackers, though.
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Killer is out for less than a day:
Survivors:He killed me?! Screw learning how to play against him; He's clearly OP! I should be getting 4-man escapes against every killer, regardless if I know how to play around their power or not! 🙃