Firellius
Firellius
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- Firellius
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Had one match where I kept finding David by accident. I refused to hook him because I didn't want to get him out of the game that fast. One instance, he got stuck in one of the structures in the swamp, so I decided to down him, bring him outside, and leave him there to be picked up by his teammates.
Post-match, after he got out via hatch, he did start complaining about tunnelling, but one of his teammates did point out to him that I'd been lenient.
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@BuffDoctorClown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3478780#Comment_3478780
It's funny how people are nitpicking 1 killer out of 4 killers he mentioned but doesn't explain the rest of them. Is it because he's right?
Sadako is just the best example of my point: Community perception isn't really a good guideline. Sadako is statistically speaking quite powerful, despite being panned as a terrible killer to play, so calling her a 'weak killer' just skews the conversation a bit.
Likewise, there's also a problem with differences across MMR. If you take all MMR into account, Doctor last had a kill rate of 55%. Below Trapper, but more likely to win than lose. But if you only look at the higher MMR ranks, his kill rate increases to the 58-59% bracket. That's a pretty considerable leap towards being dead-average. Trapper, meanwhile, is sitting on 56% across the board.
There's just a lot more nuance to the entire thing than just saying 'this killer is perceived as weak, and therefor it should get buffed'.
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@whickedchainsaw said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3478761#Comment_3478761
trapper? sadako? trickster? doctor? do u even play the game??
Sadako was revealed to have a sliiiiightly above average kill rate last time, though. At least in top MMR. She apparently wrecked shop in overall MMR.
Sometimes perception doesn't quite line up with reality. That can make it difficulty to identify which killers need buffs, and what buffs they need.
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What do you define as a 'weak killer'?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3478534#Comment_3478534
I did not personally comprise this list.
I do not know of any other Survivor streaks besides Hens', which they lost at around 200.
That still puts them below Killers like Onryo and Clown.
I merely pointed out that people don't have much interest in doing Survivor streaks because Solo, Duo and Trio streaks aren't really possible. You need to have four competent and skilled players in order to have a chance.
Solo survive streak might be possible with excessively selfish play, using things like Sole Survivor. I'd still like to see those solo, duo and trio streaks, and if none of them get past, say, four or five matches, that'll be pretty interesting to know by itself.
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Tunnelling being extremely effective kind of is the entire problem?
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3472156#Comment_3472156
Damn yea imagine if they listened to feedback about the perk that would be craaaaaaazy.
If they 'listened to feedback' from this forum, we'd be seeing nerfs to freaking WGLF and Autodidact.
Killer mains whine, and they're not always right.
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I wouldn't. It's in a similar spot to Boil Over. Hook denial is very frustrating to play against, so I'd rather it be kept low.
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Once again, 'genrushing' has been defined as 'people doing a gen'.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3463641#Comment_3463641
Judging from the amount of complaints about this, it could actually be considered a full gameplay experience.
Sure, dying with so little points sucks. But most of the time i see those points, its because that survivor suicided.
I´ve also seen killers play a full match with less than 10k points (its possible...) doesn´t happen a lot, but meh.
Best thing to do is move on to the next match and not wait until the match ends, to tell the killer how much you love him. I´ve been at that point, where i was fuming. But at the end of the day, its just a match you won´t remember in a couple of hours(days).
You can try and defend it all you want, but that doesn't change anything about the argument.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3463613#Comment_3463613
Now make the same statement and switch the roles.
My darling, my dude, the 'full gameplay experience' does not consist of one (1) chase and then sitting on hook until end-of-game with 5K BP.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3463575#Comment_3463575
Full, proper match is subjective. Completing all gens with barely any killer interaction would be considered a full, proper match for survivors. Meanwhile the same match would be considered a gen rush for killers.
That doesn't matter for the killer, you still get the full gameplay experience and you get a bunch of points.
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@Tsulan said:
Have you considered playing killer during the event? You can play as farmy as you want and the only thing that can ruin it, is survivors rushing out.
At the very least, with the killer being the power role, you can play a full, proper match with that. Can't do that with survivor.
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@Pulsar said:
It would be good if it wasn't completely RNG-based.
If the perk guaranteed at least one skill check per heal, then it'd be good.
Or just a token for a completed heal. That way, getting zero skillchecks for the first heal would actually be beneficial to the perk.
Bottom line is that unless you can secure at least five skillchecks, Autodidact helps the killer more than the survivors, and I think you need 7 or so before you break even with perks like Botany and Desperate Measures.
It's a really trash perk, one of the worst in the game.
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Resilience outside of chase is very risky. Yes, you repair 9% faster which matters a lot. However, you're injured.
You need to be injured
Respectively, I have to ask: So what?
You wrote these back-to-back.
I get what you're getting at, but you should absolutely have worded this very differently.
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@Skill_issue said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3449089#Comment_3449089
my point is if they dont bring those perks then yeah it kind of is their fault if they get tunneled easily out of the game...i always bring those perks now and made sure to learn how to loop correctly to be an asset to my team when i play
it is how i would blame a killer who doesnt bring bamboozle (for most killers)and gets looped like crazy on harder loops
Nah, pretty sure it's still 100% the killer's fault, not the survivors'.
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@mikewelk said:
Cycle of revenge. Simple as that.
Not keen on blaming one side for the actions of another.
Killers camp, tunnel, bleedout slug and bully-play because they feel like it.
Survivors t-bag, clickspam and bully-play because they feel like it.
While there will be some who do it out of 'revenge', the majority do it just because they want to.
(And some will claim it's done out of revenge and then have nothing to truly take revenge for.)
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3448202#Comment_3448202
Are you intentionally not understanding what im saying?
90% of all survivors stand and tbag at the exit gate, and will only run out of the killer comes to push them out or if the time is up...
I don't think you yourself understand what you're saying. You are not bleed-out slugging the same folks that tbag at the exit gate. because the folks that are tbagging at the exit gate will just leave if you knock them down.
Conversely, if you are bleedout slugging someone, they're not at the exit gates teabagging. There is no overlap between these two because there cannot be.
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You may need to use that add-on that allows shocked survivors to shock other, nearby survivors?
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At some point, killer players will have to come to terms with the fact that survivors get to run perks sometimes.
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@Skill_issue said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3447490#Comment_3447490
kind of like how some killers can only run 1 type of build for slowdown?
i mean you can run other perks but if you do then get tunneled whose fault is it?
You're talking about not having multiple different avenues of a specific build.
I'm talking about only ever being able to bring one build.
You can still bring chase perks, info perks, stealth perks, TR perks, baggage perks, etc.
But survivors are supposed to just always bring an anti-tunnel build. Because otherwise 'it's their own fault!'.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428090#Comment_3428090
- Team A waste time of Team B, as a consequence Team B waste the time of Team A - now Team A is crying.
This is how i see it.
If team A is teabagging at the exit gates, it's not team A that's getting slugged out, is it?
It really is team C taking the heat for it.
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@illNicola said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3447642#Comment_3447642
You can make a generator's repair time as long as you like, but if the survs have so much stuff that allows them to double/triple the repair speed that doesn't matter.
The real problem, and this is where the term "genrush" comes from, is that survs can gain an amount of gen speed (with 0 effort) that the killer can't keep up with, since the repair speed is 4 times the regression speed of the killer.
Starting off: The killer is not supposed to keep up with it. Survivors need to have a chance to break through and clear gens. When they don't, as we saw in the regression meta, you get extremely long and tedious matches.
That said, yes, genrushing is when you bring a stacked toolbox and/or hyperfocus build, and those need pruning.
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I don't, but that's just personal aversion to camping as a whole. I don't take issue with it in this scenario.
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@Riski said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3447542#Comment_3447542
A bangle could work considering the main use of keys is their aura reading right now. More traps could be fun but I wanted to focus on expanding upon existing content more than create from the ground up.
Forgot to clarify, but the bangle is also a reference to Felix and Elodie's lore. I believe it was mentioned that the Pariahs, a little friend group of five kids of a secret society opposing the Entity, had made bangles for themselves.
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IMO, with the way the hatch was reworked, keys should be too.
Keys should be replaced with bangles that innately grant the ability to see the aura of other survivors while concentrating, with add-ons increasing the range, duration, or adding the ability to see the killer.
The actual key for the hatch should spawn in a random chest at the start of the trial.
EDIT: Also, in terms of item variety, there's potential for more traps than just the flashbang/firecracker. A tripwire bell would probably work too.
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A very unfortunate David accused me of tunnelling, and a teammate of his pointed out that I never hooked him twice in a row and spared him on multiple occasions.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3447446#Comment_3447446
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3447442#Comment_3447442
HARDCORE tunneling at FIVE gens vs PROVOKED tunneling - these are seperate things. Treat them as such.
Not really. The reasons for a 'provoked' tunnel vary from actually bringing toolboxes to 'having a perk' and 'finishing a gen'.
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@Skill_issue said:
if you get tunneled then make it not worth the killers time to chase you...simple as that.
first of all are you running windows of opportunity/off the record/an exhaustion perk or unbreakable/decisive strike? good
can you hold w and run to an undesirable structure for the killer to run after you? (killer shack/building/jungle gym) good and if you cant then predrop the pallet and run to the next structure when the killer is breaking the pallet
very easy to eat up the killers time without needing any skill to loop...if you can loop it is even easier and you can mind game the pallet...windows helps with that.
are you being tunneled off the hook? use your base kit borrowed to make distance to a safe loop like described...if you are downed then decisive strike on the pick up and run to a safe loop.
if you are not using these steps and using the above perks then take responsibility on yourself for hurting your teammates...works on all killers in the game for the most part except for nurse and maybe blight
this isnt even counting bodyblocking and sabotages and blinding saves
what are the communities thoughts? do you run the above perks? do you get annoyed at teammates who cant seem to run and at least make distance if nothing else?
"Just commit your entire build so that you can last longer in a tunnel"
Might as well remove the other 95% of perks then, if we always have to be prepared for when we get tunnelled.
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One of the most memorable matches I ever had was on Hawkins Lab, against a Doctor who took full advantage of this. With the add-on to increase his terror radius, he also equipped Distressing to boost it further, and the result was a Doctor that always had everyone in his TR, effectively rendering his TR pointless for the survivors.
It was a pretty impressive 'stealth' build.
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You slow the game down, not stall it indefinitely.
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@Adaez said:
What stops survivors from giving the already replenished toolbox to someone else that doesn't suffer from the repair penalty?
While the survivor with the penalty does something else for the next 30 seconds.
lol
So you go from 2 survivors repairing at 100% each, to 1 survivor repairing at, what, 180%, while the other one doesn't repair gens?
So instead of a consistent 200% repair speed, you go for 180%. Is that abuse?
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@sanees said:
if before the survivor just got x2 toolbox
now the survivor gets a permanent stronger version of prove yourself but in solo
green box gives 32 durability and 50% acceleration repair + excellent skill checks that by themselves can make 15-20% of the generator
(already at the level / prove yourself stronger)
You say "hey scavenger is not that good he gives 50% slow"
yes, but with green box addons you can have 44 durability +80% to repair speed which means even with 50% slow you will have a constant 30% boost, and after 30 seconds this boost will be 80%
and you can get all this all the time just by getting into skill checks (and if you play very badly, then take the detective skill that turns good skill checks into great )
yes, but with green box addons you can have 44 durability +80% to repair speed which means even with 50% slow you will have a constant 30% boost, and after 30 seconds this boost will be 80%
Presumably, this is not how it works.
The +80% will be multiplicative with the 50% repair speed, not additive.
That's the way it works with self-healing too.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3445192#Comment_3445192
The upside is your replenishing a Toolbox with addons that will speed up Gen repairs more. The slower repair speed will also allow for more skill checks meaning a faster replenishment of said tool box.
Not to mention it can be used multiple times per match now instead of a single use perk. This will make Gen rush builds more obnoxious to go against.
Now I agree with the Pyramid head change because that could of been done a bit better
Okay, so you get 30 seconds of -50% repair speed in exchange for up to 52 seconds of +50% repair speed. If you repair during those 52 seconds, you end up getting 30 x .75 + 22 x 1.5 = 55.5 seconds' worth of work in 52 seconds.
You win 3.5 seconds.
You HAVE to negotiate the drawback if you want to get any meaningful value out of this. You HAVE to spend those 30 seconds doing something that isn't a gen if you want to get value out of this.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3445185#Comment_3445185
It's slowed repair speed not unable to repair....so there is no real downside especially if someone is running other Gen speed perks that would make that slow repair speed normal repair speed.
Okay, but there's no upside either if you do repair.
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@meatshield said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3445185#Comment_3445185
"unable to repair a gens for 30 seconds." Uhm, what? You can still repair a generator but slower for 30 seconds.
Okay, but 50% slower would completely negate whatever value you get out of the toolbox. This perk just ceases to exist if you trigger it and then spend the next 30 seconds repairing.
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@Aurelle said:
It's a good thing considering it's nearly impossible to avoid POTD at times.
He really needs his addons looked at first before he receives any base kit changes. Most of his addons are pure dumpster tier and need adjustments.
I'd rather a killer have a solid basekit and garbage tier add-ons, personally.
I think there's something to be said for rewarding PH by blocking saves and saving a ton of time on hooking, it's just that the anti-DS mechanisms that were introduced as an appetiser for his cages have since turned to tunnel-boosters.
The cage should just count as a hook and it'd probably be pretty much fixed.
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@whickedchainsaw said:
you dont think this through behaviour please. one guy refills a commodious wirespool and scraps and give it to his friend. this can be done by all survivors SWF will be unstoppable. why didnt you think this through? Please tell me
You can trade off the toolbox, but you'll still be unable to repair gens for 30 seconds. This doesn't offset the introduced counterweight.
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@Beatricks said:
I feel like it's less them being very interested in hearing feedback and more about them coming up with some insanely unbalanced things that they realize after five minutes of experienced players playtesting would be a horrible idea. I still to this day don't understand why they don't consult with their fogwhisperers, some of whom are far more knowledgeable about balance than anyone on the dev team.
Still, I guess we are getting a slightly worse chapter so...technical W?
I feel like it's less them being very interested in hearing feedback and more about them coming up with some insanely unbalanced things that they realize after five minutes of experienced players playtesting would be a horrible idea.
I mean, that's a pretty big step up from what we used to get, I'd say.
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@Nebula said:
Because this might be one of the worst survivor perks in the game now. Glad enough people complained about a perk that would have never been used anyways…
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0J2HSI26CFB1/a8044c96-9fcc-4206-80d2-e6f7b1f4a8d8.png
It's become significantly clunkier, but I can see opportunities for this.
Pair this perk with, for example, Inner Strength or a boon. Hit your five skillchecks, refill your toolbox, and while the penalty is active, go deal with a totem to maintain efficiency.
It's still a good distance from joining Autodidact, No Mither and Potential Energy in the 'what is this killer perk doing in the survivor section?' category.
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@Raptorrotas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3444618#Comment_3444618
And a survivor can "chase for 5 gens", so? the survivors should, according to survivor logic, just tunneled another gen.
People just being salty other people say tunnel instead of rush (which doesnt exist according to survs) is hillarious. terms change, lol, remember facecamping?
Tunnel another gen, killer shows up, you have to switch targets because you can't tunnel a gen that the killer is on.
Terminology changes, sure, but not in the course of a week because three killer mains think they can make a point by using the wrong words.
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@Raptorrotas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3444085#Comment_3444085
"Tunneling survivors is a made up term designed in the survivor rule book to make killers play less effectively....", I'll spare you the rest, but I surely hope you notice the hypocrisy?
On another noteit feels like survivors complaining about the usage of "tunneling" for generators instead of genrush (which doesnt exist according to survivors) just because their own spells are being used against themselves.
You know what tunnelling a generator means?
A while ago, there were two BPS and a Flan being brought into a match against me playing Trickster as killer. With that many BP boosts, I decided to play for fun and points. I staked out one gen and refused to let them do that specific gen.
We just did some fun cat-and-mouse stuff where the survivors would try to sneakily do that gen while my back was turned. They had way better options to pick from, gens I was not defending, or even able to consistently defend, but the survs tunnelled that one gen I was defending.
THAT is gen tunnelling.
And it doesn't work, because the killer can keep that gen from being done, indefinitely.
That's why 'tunnelling gens' is a dumb term.
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@jamally093 said:
I thought I was losing my mind but this happened twice I was facing a survivor who used dead hard they saved so no biggie but then later one it was two people left a Dwight and David(he has Dead Hard) the Dwight had been saved by someone else long ago and it wasn't David reason I know this is because Dwight had been on hook once meaning even if David saved him he technically would have only one dead hard use which he used up. Now what gets weirder is the fact that I was chasing him he used Dead Hard when I know clearly he shouldn't have it has he never saved anyone and he was on death hook. Did they revert Dead Hard to its old self and never changed the description? This has happened twice now to me where someone dead hards but never saved anyone.
DH now depends on being saved, not on saving someone else. That PTB change didn't get pushed to live, IIRC.
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@Jejune said:
It's not gen rushing because you can (attempt to) do something. You can't do anything on the hook and dead zone.
1v2+ chases, where even if you down someone, you can't secure the hook due to blinds and sabos.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3440174#Comment_3440174
And this summarizes the whole DBD forums perfectly.
I've written it before, and I'll write it again; The default position for most posters here is Killer being essentially a NPC. Survivors are supposed to have a good time, and nobody cares if the Killer has any fun at all. Hell, most of the Killer advice on these forums is for the Killer to try something other than to get 3+ kills. IOW, "sweaty".
The forums aren't healthy, and are not a useful guide for future game health, IMO.
The killers on these forums don't care about fun. They only care about wins. They won't complain about stuff that's annoying or unfun to deal with, but they'll yammer endlessly about survivors having a fighting chance.
Survivor complaints are predominantly about unengaging gameplay, but killer complaints are predominantly 'I can't win, therefor it's impossible for anyone to win'.
Yeah, people care less about killers' 'fun' when said 'fun' consists of a 4K and nothing else.
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I've only watched some footage, but I don't think TCM has that much replayability. While it does look pretty impressive, I think it'll quickly fall into a sloggy routine with too little variance to give it longevity.
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@Spectralfx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3441724#Comment_3441724
Right back at ya!
As survivor ou are not entitled to anything more lol.
But honestly, our points have been made and you don't seem to contribute to the conversation anymore.
Right back at ya!
You don't really get what was happening here, do you?
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@Spectralfx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3441501#Comment_3441501
Wdym???
The DH and CoH nerfs are literally the only time the devs addressed a concern killer had for MONTHS, they did that while nerfing our meta-builds on top of Years of previous nerfing to our meta builds...
Meanwhile survivors got base kit endurance from hook, a bunch of other base kit crap. BS maps that favors survivors with a map size of the continent of africa and more pallets than 3 warehouses combined
Y'all have it waaaaaay too good.
And why would you get to bring that up to the devs?
Why not just 'decide how to deal with that fact' and realise that you're 'not entitled to anything else'?
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The Nancy perk that gives you +30% walking speed is a phenomenal stealth perk and is, IMO, one of the most underrated perks in the game.