Firellius
Firellius
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- Firellius
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Decisive Strike:
Stun duration from 3 seconds -> 5 seconds.
Can now be used on both unhooks, not just once.
Off The Record:
No longer grants endurance.
Instead, removes scratch marks, sounds, and blood trails, blocks aura reading and prevents screams and killer instinct for 60 seconds after unhook. Performing a conspicuous action disables Off The Record early.
This way DS is the guaranteed value, and OTR is a riskier but potentially more powerful anti-tunnel.
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@C3Tooth said:
Boil over should increase the stun time when wiggle out instead of the drop penalty.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3630978#Comment_3630978
4v1 doesnt mean 4 < 1. Both side have the strength to bully each other. Bullying is wrong on survivors part, and so do killers think only the 1 should be able to bully the 4.
Boil over should increase the stun time when wiggle out instead of the drop penalty.
I actually really like this as a rework idea for Boil Over.
"If the killer is stunned while carrying you, the stun duration is increased by X%/Y seconds"
Complimentary perk to Decisive Strike as the most obvious use. Though Flashy saves would need to be nerfed to prevent it being too much of a bully power.
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@MalekithHatesSnow said:
When we talk about survivor we assume every survivor is a trash soloq player when we talk about killer every killer is a 4000 hour 4 meta perk using Nurse that's the rules
Also, the norm is 0K. Somehow.
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No, you're not getting it. What RpTheHotrod is describing is a tactic that -should- also be operable on live. Not as effectively, but it would still work. And it would be more efficient than banking on a long chase.
What you have been positing here is that a killer consistently fails to find any survivor for a very long time, despite those survivors also consistently getting work done on gens. That doesn't require a regression stop. That's feasible on live, too. Possibly more effective, even, since gen-kicking doesn't do as much. The killer would need to kick 16 times to get the equivalent value.
What I and others have been trying to tell you is that the scenario you are worried about is not a feasible scenario. It's not a functional tactic. If it was, it would be on live, too.
You are just constantly lowering the bar of competence for the killer, and then insisting that his rock-bottom MMR is valid reason to redo the entire system.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3630726#Comment_3630726
So you agree that excessive hiding needs to be nerfed or punished somehow, because it makes it impossible for the killer to win?
I think you missed my sarcasm. Nobody employs this strategy because it doesn't work.
@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3630605#Comment_3630605
Except they have been on the ptb, and people are posting about it in the ptb feedback.
People are complaining about gen dribbling, which is the opposite problem.
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Hook denial is by far the biggest thorn in killer gameplay's side, IMO. Boil Over should never have been buffed. This is stuff I want to see addressed.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3630716#Comment_3630716
It doesn’t matter when the killer kicks the generators. If the survivors are doing a strategy of “repair for short bursts to time, then excessively hide”, then eventually the generator progress will be high enough for the killer to kick, and this process can repeat itself until the generator is damage immune.
No, you don't get what I mean.
The killer currently kicks for 2.5%. So if survivors can easily do 5% of repairs and then hide so the killer literally physically can't find them, they can just do that forever! Yeah, the killer gets infinite kicks, but that doesn't matter, this tactic still makes it impossible for the killer to win.
Excessive hiding is therefor surely the way to go on live servers and the absolute top strategy across the board.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3630605#Comment_3630605
5% isn’t very powerful in the current game, because the current game doesn’t have damage immune generators. If survivors are only repairing in 5% bursts on live, then the killer can always just kick the generators and reverse that small amount of progress.
5% bursts of repairing is only powerful when generators can become damage immune, because that means any % of repairing, no matter how small, gets permanently locked in, and therefore can eventually reach 100% if the game extends long enough.
You're not kicking for 5% though, and if the killer is not able to start ANY chases, that means the killer gets 0 progress, while survivors still make some progress themselves! And a lot of regression perks like Pop and Surge would not come into play either!
This tactic sounds infallible!
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3630211#Comment_3630211
Literally never said that. Don't spread misinformation. Also, maybe you're new to the game, but survivors have a variety of tools to escape a killer if they were on a gen. We aren't talking about just things like surge. Killers will want to obviously kick a gen that's being focused on. If that's the only gen survivors are touching, then it's not a true camping situation - it's the only objective to defend. Survivors can entirely get 5%+ in then hoof it the moment they hear a terror radius. Killer will want to start regressing it. Not to mention, if the killer chases, they got 3 more survivors that pop right back onto the gen. Forcing 8 regressions is easy. The only alternative would be for the killer to not kick the gen, but that's practically handing it over at that point.
No matter how you cut it, this update will absolutely affect killers who are not campijg a 3 gen.
We've moved from one survivor managing to dodge the killer 8 times without ever being caught despite constantly hanging around the same area to a whole gaggle of 'em.
Killer competence in these scenarios keeps dropping and yet...
Also, if they can 'easily put in 5%+', then this'd be an unstoppable tactic in the current game. And yet no one pulls it off?
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Hatch should probably not be reverted, but on the topic of alternative paths to victory, BBQ and WGLF should.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629842#Comment_3629842
Have you seriously never done the run/walk scratchmark thing, and you've never seen anyone else do this? Like you seriously just 100% run, and leave a solid trail of scratchmarks? And you seriously can't even understand how this strategy works?
I've seen people do it. I've also never seen it work for anyone else. I've been able to make a variant of it work myself, once, using Fixated against a Myers on a map where I had a high vantage point and thus could see the killer coming, but he could not see me leaving. He still found me on the third time because he figured out I was hiding further away.
Sincerely though, at this point, get better. If survivors are leading you on goose chases to this degree with any sort of consistency, not being able to permanently lock down a generator is the -least- of your concerns.
Or maybe bring a Nowhere to Hide to do it for you?
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629777#Comment_3629777
Survivors have about an 8 second head start, which might be even longer if the killer needs to path around objects to get to the generator. The main point is the survivors will have a giant head start.
And survivors aren't forced to literally run 100% of the time. Usually when survivors have a giant head start, they will alternate between running to a line of sight breaker, and walking to another line of sight breaker. When survivors do this strategy, there will be gaps in the scratchmarks, and the killer needs to guess which direction the survivor went, and if they guess wrong even once, there is a good chance the scratchmarks will be gone before the killer can guess the correct direction.
And this strategy works because 1) the survivor is so far away that the sound occlusion will make the survivors completely silent on the killer's point of view, and 2) the survivor is so far away that they have time to alternate between running and walking to hide their path.
Survivors have about an 8 second head start, which might be even longer if the killer needs to path around objects to get to the generator. The main point is the survivors will have a giant head start.
They can't use that 'giant head start' though, because they HAVE to walk. And they have to get around those objects same as the killer does.
And survivors aren't forced to literally run 100% of the time. Usually when survivors have a giant head start, they will alternate between running to a line of sight breaker, and walking to another line of sight breaker.
That does not work, because if they run, even for a second, they leave a trail that the killer can pick up on. And if the killer finds that trail, they're likely too close to hide from again.
And this strategy works because 1) the survivor is so far away that the sound occlusion will make the survivors completely silent on the killer's point of view, and 2) the survivor is so far away that they have time to alternate between running and walking to hide their path.
But if it would work like this, it would work under the current circumstances as well, and it simply doesn't.
You're building a scenario wherein the killer is flubbing really badly, and the survivors are executing an impossible strategy to absolute perfection.
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@Xernoton said:
It doesn't matter, if these perks are good or bad. As long as they aren't better than the established meta, they will be considered weak and nobody will run them. At least not for long.
I think there's a bit more of an argument. BHVR seems very nervous about new perks, so a lot of these come out half-baked or with heavy drawbacks. Potential Energy is a decent concept, but it's hamstrung by a double whammy of drawbacks that make it both very inefficient and extremely risky, for example.
Deadline is kinda the same. It's an interesting perk option, and could be very fun to play with...
If it didn't both require an injury AND made every skillcheck harder. (Including skillchecks that have nothing to do with the perk)
10% more skillchecks probably wouldn't break the meta all on its own already, but having it require injury would put it firmly into the 'niche' category, but to then also make it make skillchecks harder just nerfs it out of viability before it's even released. It doesn't need to be meta, it just needs to not be buried under horrible conditions.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/402883/the-devs-support-exploits
If the Gen isn't being finished that is half the point. I don't need pop if they aren't finishing the gen.
I think the point is that they're 'dribbling' the gen. So they do 4.5% of the gen repairs, then let go for a moment, and then do another 4.5%, repeating until they're done.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629577#Comment_3629577
None of that works for low mobility killers, that can’t hide their terror radius, if survivors are pre leaving generators when the terror radius lights up, and hides until the terror radius goes away. There’s no “sneaking up” on survivors when the terror radius can give a 7 second warning to survivors.
Alternately, the terror radius numbers should be decreased, to give survivors less prior warning to pre leave generators.
How are the survivors going to pull that off though? You can't walk all the way out of danger, and if you run, you leave a trail.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629439#Comment_3629439
Often in the current game, this ends up being an extended 3-gen, because the survivors are pre-leaving generators early and often, and the killer isn't chasing the survivors that are pre-leaving the generators early.
You never double back even once to throw a survivor off? You never look around the area they cannot have left without leaving scratch marks?
You're just going to auto-pilot between three gens for ten minutes while never actually putting in any effort to find a survivor?
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629156#Comment_3629156
Not necessarily a win. They could have been kicking my ass by also hitting other gens. They had an incredibly lucky killer shack right next to 3 center gens on top of having the center building available for looping. In this example, sure, the survivors totally screwed up, but only because they were an swf obsessed with wanting to do altruistic swarms. If they actually tried, the match could have gone very different, and I would have been completely locked out from one of the 3 center gens. That's absolutely being punished all in the name of "stopping the killer from just sitting at the 3 gens and never doing chases from the beginning of the match" as BHVR claims is ONLY when this would kick in and "normal non camp matches will never reach 8 regression events". That is completely incorrect.
If they actually tried, the match could have gone very different, and I would have been completely locked out from one of the 3 center gens
Except you also said that if they actually tried, you wouldn't have hit 8 regression events on the same gen, because the gen would've been done in the meantime. Not to mention that this took quite a long time to reach. And keep in mind that there's regression buffs it's being paired with, so they would have less progress overall, meaning they've wasted more time and are more likely to lose.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629073#Comment_3629073
You missed a key isssue, though. IF they did focus it, then I wouldnt have got that number, the the fact remains, they didn't. Why should I, as the killer, be punished for the survivors making a mistake and give them some sort of "catch up" mechanic to help them win?
How would it be a punishment?
If they did all heap up on that gen and got it done, you wouldn't have gotten to that number. How did you get to that number? Because the survivors were playing very poorly.
So to me, this kind of reads like: Either the survivors are good and you never hit the 8 regression event limit,
Or you win.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629073#Comment_3629073
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629081#Comment_3629081
Can you all explain to me why these killer mains insist that survivors are somehow in a good spot if the killer is kicking the same gen 8 times? It just seems like the survivors are throwing the game from my perspective, and I can’t imagine losing a game as any killer under such a circumstance. But it appears to be a major concern for the killer mains here and on Reddit. Why?
There's this insistence that any anti-X mechanism must not benefit survivors under any circumstance outside of the absolute most egregious examples of X. This is in disregard of whether this'll make survivors actually win, or indeed, if it is even beneficial. Bit of an issue of scope, I think.
Reminds me of this discussion on 'pausing the hook timer if the killer is nearby', and someone was insistent that survivors would abuse this by standing on opposite sides of the zone limit, and if the killer starts chase with one, the other would go for the unhook. In that scenario, the paused timer would benefit the survivors, compared to that scenario without the hook timer pause.
But that didn't take into account that without the paused hook timer, that scenario wouldn't play out, and those two survivors would instead both be on gens making progress and forcing the killer to spend more time searching, so the very existence of the scenario is a killer boon in the first place.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
I just recently had a match that I had 8 damage events on a single gen, but it was super unusual. All of the survivors were ignoring ALL of the gens with the exception of three center gens (and eventually one far off). They just kept pouring all of their resources into these 3 gens, so they were literally the only gens to even defend. I'd keep popping over to other gens, but nope - all of them untouched. This was even with me running away from the center 3 gens and running off to chase people (despite being a "bad idea")
The first one was technically a grab, but for all intents and purposes, that would have been a damage event via surge otherwise.
This would have actually been closer to 12 damage events if they happened to go down closer to the generator. Many of the downs they were just beyond the range of surge. If I had used eruption, then I would have reached 8 within minutes of the match starting (but then again, I wouldn't pair surge with eruption to begin with).
https://youtu.be/w_PqS6RSC8g?si=AJ8zLm4xB5qKe-jr
Now someone might say, "Oh, you won, so who cares?" Yeah, I won because the Survivors were making some serious blunders and also didn't have tool boxes or gen rushing perks. On any other match, this could have easily been a loss. They were more interested in playing altruistic than actually doing the objectives. They could have easily knocked out that center gen if they actually tried, and with the other gens spread out like they were, that may have been walking miles as an m1 killer with no map traversal power.
They could have easily knocked out that center gen if they actually tried, and with the other gens spread out like they were, that may have been walking miles as an m1 killer with no map traversal power.
That's kind of an argument in favour of the new system though, because if they had closed that gen out earlier, you wouldn't have gotten to the number you did.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629027#Comment_3629027
But then, even using your logic, they implementing an SBMM is not what "sucked the fun out of the game" (somehow), but the way BHVR implemented the SBMM was. So, you are agreeing with me, right?
Also, the only problem with your logic (surprisingly, you are being almost coherent with your argument this time and I can only maybe point out an ambiguity of language fallacy... I'm so proud of you) is that you didn't even explained how the change to the SBMM somehow "sucked out the fun of the game". Because even following your logic of "the old system rewarded fun", that system is still in the game in form of Grades, which is completely visible and up front in it with the SBMM being hided and only affecting match making, meaning that like I said, most people even today doesn't even know it is a thing.
Like I said in another post: "The question here is how something that only works in the backend, is not mention in game once, most people even today doesn't know is a thing and doesn't affect gameplay at all can have that effect in the playerbase. The reasonable answer here is: It doesn't, and never did."
But then, even using your logic, they implementing an SBMM is not what "sucked the fun out of the game" (somehow), but the way BHVR implemented the SBMM was. So, you are agreeing with me, right?
Depends on what your terminology is.
I'm just saying that the terminology you are using is not what most of the folks around here are using, nor what was used in the video.
Also, the only problem with your logic (surprisingly, you are being almost coherent with your argument this time and I can only maybe point out an ambiguity of language fallacy... I'm so proud of you) is that you didn't even explained how the change to the SBMM somehow "sucked out the fun of the game". Because even following your logic of "the old system rewarded fun", that system is still in the game in form of Grades, which is completely visible and up front in it with the SBMM being hided and only affecting match making, meaning that like I said, most people even today doesn't even know it is a thing.
It's an issue with match quality. Before SBMM, iridescent had slightly better match quality where you could expect your teammates to have a generally healthy understanding of the game and a drive to experience the full breadth. Even killer players would be somewhat less likely to camp at those higher ranks because camping gets you de-pipped.
The issue is with how the matchmaking sorts players out. If you win, you get rewarded with sweatier opponents and teammates. Losing, on the killer end, isn't that big of a deal in the matchmaking since you're more likely to get worse opponents, but on the survivor end, that translates to worse teammates.
Think of it this way: you're a nice killer. You don't camp, tunnel, slug, any of that. Under SBMM, every time you get more than two kills in a match, your MMR goes up, meaning you're more likely to be pitted against survivors with higher escape rates. However, how these survivors hit that escape rate is undefined. As you go up in MMR, then, you're more likely to get sorted against players that genrush their behinds off. As your competence rises, you're therefor more likely to get dissatisfying matches.
Conversely, under the ranks system, your playstyle will likely push you to iridescent faster, but the survivors you get at that rank will, themselves, be iridescent as well. Which means they've developed broader playstyles, as that is what is required to keep pipping all the way up into iridescent rank. Iri survivors are more likely to be altruistic, to take chases, to do a totem or two and generally spread out their gameplay.
SBMM sorts only by success rate. Ranks sorts by breadth of gameplay. Under SBMM, a competent player that wants to have a broad experience will get matched against sweats. Under Ranks, those that want a broader experience will get matched with others with similar gameplay goals.
With that in mind, as an added theory: Bad manners are contagious, and in much the same vein, there's a suggestion that 'nasty' killers create bully squads which create more 'nasty' killers, which create more bully squads, etc. So by sorting competent 'nice' players against 'nasty' players, it's well possible that the nastiness spreads faster.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629020#Comment_3629020
Not as anti-fun as your haughty attitude from post 1 though, you really need to get some self-control.
With you? After the "interactions" we had till now in other posts? Nah. The day I see you not discuss by cherry picking, twisting logic and using fallacies maybe I would try to be a little more civil in our "debates".
The big difference is in what Ranks pushed as a win condition versus what SBMM pushes as a win condition.
First: "Now, the way SBMM is implemented in DbD, that's a point worth discussing." It's not like I didn't already addressed that the way BHVR implemented an SBMM to DbD "leaves much to be desired".
Second: Fun fact, there is nothing preventing BHVR from refactoring the SBMM to works exactly like Ranks did but instead of pips making it add or subtract points from a rating used for both ranking and match-making. Nothing. In other words and using your logic, you can make an SBMM that rewards "fun" too.
You should learn what SBMM and Skill Based Ranking really is, so you don't make the error of thinking that "Taking in count every action that happen inside a match" is something exclusive of one system in particular.
First: "Now, the way SBMM is implemented in DbD, that's a point worth discussing." It's not like I didn't already addressed that the way BHVR implemented an SBMM to DbD "leaves much to be desired".
That's why I said that when we're talking about SBMM, it's specifically about SBMM as opposed to the old rank system.
You should learn what SBMM and Skill Based Ranking really is, so you don't make the error of thinking that "Taking in count every action that happen inside a match" is something exclusive of one system in particular. Or, using your logic, you can make an SBMM that rewards "fun" too.
Yes, but that is specifically what was changed when we moved from the system called ranks to the system called SBMM. I know that ranks is a form of skill-based matchmaking, but they're two different terms in the colloquialisms of DBD. 'SBMM', in DBD terms, specifically refers to the system we have now, as opposed to the rank system we had before its implementation. Even the devs use this language, because the system of SBMM was specifically introduced as a novelty.
That is what I was I was referring to with my comment. You don't need to get all up in yourself every time you see my name on these forums, bud.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3628931#Comment_3628931
An option that let's us switch between the following would be nice.
- Hearing no voicelines at all
- Only hearing your own Survivor's voicelines
- You hearing all Survivor's voicelines
Options would probably be best, yes, because contrary to the OP, Alan Wake's voicework is actually making me more likely to get him.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3628850#Comment_3628850
Like I said in another post, Ranks was an even more proper ranked SBMM system that what it is in the game right now, not differing much of what most of the hardcore competitive games do right now, and it was implemented directly into the game unlike the current SBMM which only works in the backend, so you could see your rank which would make you more inclined to tryhard to see it get higher.
For example, the ranking system in MTGA is almost the same, the only difference being it only counts wins to "pip" and loses to "depip" and when you reach what would be "Iri 1" in DbD you enter the "Top 500", which has a separate MMR system where you can literally be the number 1 of the game that season.
Now, I would ask you to explain your reasoning and logic behind your claim and how if Ranks were still in the game it would make it more fun somehow, but I don't want to debate your fallacies over and over yet again.
The big difference is in what Ranks pushed as a win condition versus what SBMM pushes as a win condition.
SBMM demands kill or survival. Ranks demanded a full breadth of gameplay. Getting eight hooks but no kills was rewarded under Ranks, getting one hook and camping that to death gets rewarded under SBMM. Genrushing and getting out ASAP gets rewarded under SBMM, while grabbing a totem, taking protection hits, going for a safe unhook and more get rewarded in Ranks.
It's -almost- accurate to say that Ranks rewards fun games while SBMM only rewards sweating. And in that regard, yes, I feel confident that SBMM has cultivated a very anti-fun mindset.
Not as anti-fun as your haughty attitude from post 1 though, you really need to get some self-control.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/402650/12-minutes-of-everything-wrong-with-dbd
SBMM sucks the fun out of the game.
Wrong. SBMM prevents people like Choy, Hens or Otz from destroy new players with their high level gameplay, nothing more. This would be like a professional athlete complaining that they can not play an official game against an highschool team as playing with other teams of the league is "too sweaty". Also, no matter what system you would use to matchmaking, you won't stop people to play to win (or "sweaty" or "hardcore" or whatever buzzword you want to use) in a competitive PvP game.
Now, the way SBMM is implemented in DbD, now that's a point worth discussing. In other games, with proper brackets, ranks and mode, it would be nearly impossible for a new player to face a max ranked player unless they played in a mode where there is no SBMM (usually called "casual game" or "player game"). That's not what happens in DbD, as basically every player above average is in the same bracket when they reach 1600 MMR, meaning you can basically face someone with 20K hours played and 2200 MMR when you have 200 and just have entered the bracket.
That's the problem with DbD's SBMM, not SBMM itself.
I think we're talking about SBMM as in 'SBMM vs. Ranks' and in that regard, yes, it's absolutely SBMM that's sucking the fun out of the game.
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Because he's hot.
(This goes for David, Felix AND Vittorio, so it doesn't matter who I pick for my main!)
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Hag's Tower Defense game.
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BHVR took a steamroller to their own gameplay and flattened it all the way out. Healing was bad, so it got dramatic nerfs. Boons were introduced and removed again shortly after. For some unfathomable reason, Ruin got absolutely decimated, making all totems permanently irrelevant. DS got gutted, providing a huge buff to tunnelling, thereby massively increasing killer efficiency on top of the basekit killer buffs. Gen times taking longer was a solid buff to camping. Nowhere to Hide, Ultimate Weapon effectively removed stealth as an option. 6.1 also deleted the subconditions off WGLF and BBQ.
I remember thinking around the time of 6.1 that 'I used to goof off and do some totems for BPs', but anything that isn't rushing gens is just throwing at this point. The gameplay has become sweaty, and it's starting to grow mouldy.
'Competitive' and 'fun' are basically opposites, IMO. The more competitive DBD gets, the less enjoyable it becomes to the average player. This works for MOBAs due to the insane thrill you can get out of a 'hard-carry', where you become the star of the show, but DBD cannot bank on this.
Looking back on it, I think the rank system and WGLF + BBQ were actually pretty solid contributors to success. It's incredibly good for the gameplay loop of an asymmetrical multiplayer if a player's 'win' is not dependent on another player's loss. Back then, if you died on hook with 4 WGLF stacks, you were happy to have your BPs, and the killer was happy to get their kill. Even the rank system helped in this though, as getting sacrificed at the end of a long game where you cleared two gens, held a long chase, did a totem and got a safe unhook would count as a win for BOTH killer and survivor.
Honestly, thinking about it, the rank system was genius, at least for survivors. The win condition was getting the full breadth of the game experience. That was how you won.
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Now that could be a fun new gamemode. Everyone is dumped into the same trial, one person is chosen at random to play a random killer with a random load-out, and the others play their preferred survivor with a random loadout as well.
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With the 'once per trial' limitation, seems like it would be pretty much fine, especially with boons being the way they are right now.
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It wouldn't work anymore, since AFC was added to teach killers to camp more effectively. They'd circumvent Kindred.
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@Unam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3627565#Comment_3627565
pretty simple:
Gen Times are to flexible. They can go from 120sec per gen down to 30 or 20 seconds. There are teams that leave the exit gates after 4:45 min. Bring all the gen progression and regression perks in line so the extend of how fast or slow gens go is not that big.
Maps! Map layouts are completely fcked up. Garden of Joy Main or Haddonfield main are the perfect example. If run correctly, the killer cannot physically catch you without major fuckups from survivors. Lower Tier Killers and esp. M1 Killers really struggle to the point that nearly everyone jus gives up chase if ppl run into GoJ Main Building, bcs there is not point in running it.
Tiles/Pallets are spawning way to close. There are way to much Safe Pallets or safe loops to close to another. Add more Line of sight Blockers but make all loops mindgameable. Tunneling happens bcs there is no point in chasing a healthy survivor into shack next to a jungle gym.
Make NOT tunneling more rewarding instead of making tunneling harder and harder. It will still remain the most effective way to play. f.e. add a "demoralizing debuff" to all survivors if everyone got hooked once and add another stack if everyone got hooked twice.
The most important part in my opinion is the following:
EDUCAT SURVIVOR PLAYERS!
Make them play at LEAST one game as and/or against every killer in the tutorial. They need to understand mechanics, how tiles work, when to do gens and whe to NOT unhook. Most of the survivors accusing me of tunneling are unhooking right as i turn my back on them to leave the hook.
Tbh, a big part of the surv community is just downright Bad!
Gen Times are to flexible. They can go from 120sec per gen down to 30 or 20 seconds. There are teams that leave the exit gates after 4:45 min. Bring all the gen progression and regression perks in line so the extend of how fast or slow gens go is not that big.
Not a killer issue.
Maps! Map layouts are completely fcked up. Garden of Joy Main or Haddonfield main are the perfect example. If run correctly, the killer cannot physically catch you without major fuckups from survivors. Lower Tier Killers and esp. M1 Killers really struggle to the point that nearly everyone jus gives up chase if ppl run into GoJ Main Building, bcs there is not point in running it.
Not a killer issue.
Tiles/Pallets are spawning way to close. There are way to much Safe Pallets or safe loops to close to another. Add more Line of sight Blockers but make all loops mindgameable. Tunneling happens bcs there is no point in chasing a healthy survivor into shack next to a jungle gym.
Not a killer issue.
Make NOT tunneling more rewarding instead of making tunneling harder and harder. It will still remain the most effective way to play. f.e. add a "demoralizing debuff" to all survivors if everyone got hooked once and add another stack if everyone got hooked twice.
Not a killer issue.
This is just a washlist of balancing concerns that are nothing like what survivors have been getting. This is just begging for straight up killer buffs/survivor nerfs.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3627601#Comment_3627601
Still hasn't been confirmed as a bug. It might be an actual game mechanic, for all anyone knows. BHVR has refused to comment on this for months, so it remains a top secret thing in this game, that can steal hits from killers.
Why? Why hasn't BHVR commented on it yet? Is it there on purpose so that survivors can feel like they "outplayed" the killer? Is it a bug that's so difficult to fix, that BHVR won't even comment on it?
I'm pretty sure it's a side effect of an existing feature. Lunges, as far as I can tell, end immediately when you touch a survivor, turning into a swing. If you're already touching a survivor when you try to lunge, that effect kicks in immediately.
Not sure how that can cost you a hit though.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3627565#Comment_3627565
Killers are forbidden to lunge if they are too close to a survivor, which can steal hits.
So, a bug. Anything else?
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NOED is pretty poorly designed in that it has bad counterplay. At least now, once it pops, it's easier to deal with, so it's improved a bit, but it's still not as good as it could be.
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@Unam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3627246#Comment_3627246
I did not say they need to be gods.
Nor did I say you are not a good killer.
Stop using ad hominem to create a false narrative.
You just obviously dont play against survs that know what they are doing and dont goof around.
If the devs REALLY understood their game, explain how maps like garden of joy with its main building can exist even AFTER a re visit for balancing?
How can Haddonfield main spawn with 2-3 windows and at least one god pallet next to it?
How can a TL tile, a jungle gym and shack spawn right next to each other?
If the devs are not die hard surv mains, or, at least, favour survivors more, how did survs get a HUD update that precisely tells everyone what their team is doing while kllers like onryo, plague, etc have to guess how far their power is stacked? Why do killers still have to count hooks?
Why is their accessibility options like visual TR and killers have none of that? No visual Sound cues, nothing...
Dont get me started on hexes that havent been touched and are basically useless if they spawn infront of survs. Scourge Hooks exclusively spawning in one area of the game, etc.
Survs "issues" always have higher priority than killers. FOV slider is the first thin Killers got across the board since the big shakeup in 2022.
I get it, the majority of the Playerbase exclusively plays survivor. And thats why they dont understand most of the game mechanics. Killer is way less forgiving than survivor and requires much more knowledge, coordination and skill overall!
Survs "issues" always have higher priority than killers. FOV slider is the first thin Killers got across the board since the big shakeup in 2022.
What issues do killers have, across the board, that need to be addressed?
The FoV slider is pretty much the only thing on that list, and that's now gone. What else do you want BHVR to do, that is not balance related?
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@Pluto_1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3627473#Comment_3627473
"They don't know the game as thoroughly as the players do. They simply -can't-. Someone among the thousands is going to have a better grasp on some things."
Yeah I give you that. But that's also not what I said.
I know that's not what you said, but it throws a wrench in your appeal to authority.
The devs don't know.
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@Pluto_1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3626848#Comment_3626848
Why do I care what the community believes? It's astounding that you'd think that the people who designed the damn game doesn't know it.
This community is divided into survivor and killer mains. The ones who complain the most are the same ones who complain over and over. Survivors and killers both. Make no mistake about it, this forum isn't even a drip in the bucket of DBD's player base. The game is balanced around raw numbers. Not individual playstyles.
"It's astounding that you'd think that the people who designed the damn game doesn't know it."
They don't though. They've come up with multiple ideas that -no one- liked. Most of these got cancelled by community input, but there's a reason they ask feedback.
They don't know the game as thoroughly as the players do. They simply -can't-. Someone among the thousands is going to have a better grasp on some things.
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Mechanical change to boons: Boons now each have individualised parameters. When multiple boon perks are equipped, the worst parameter is picked from each and applied to all. Additionally, boons can enter a cooldown when the killer snuffs it.
Circle of Healing:
Radius from 24m -> 12m
Cooldown from 0s -> 120s.
Survivors within its radius can now heal themselves at 35% of the normal healing speed.
Boons in general could use more flexibility in their numbers to open up design space. Circle of Healing also currently only really works for Swiffers. One of the issues mentioned with what CoH was before it got nerfed out of viability was that its resets were too quick, and that it could be put down far away from the action. One of those issues has already been resolved now that the heal speed boost is altruistic, meaning self-heal no longer benefits from CoH's heal speed boost, but the reduced range adds a little extra weight to it by making survivors have to run farther, wasting more time.
Additionally, a cooldown makes it more worthwhile to snuff out.
This might still be too weak, but it'll be in a much more manoeuvrable spot.
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@FFirebrandd said:
No. They reverted the wrong nerf.
I want to stress this.
It's isn't just the wrong nerf that they reverted.
It is the wrong-er-est nerf to revert.
Much like with DS, 6.1 gave a good nerf and a bad nerf. DS lost the EGC activation (Good nerf) and got cut in half (Bad nerf). Ruin got an anti-tunnel clause (Good nerf) and then got cut in half (bad nerf). Undoing the anti-tunnel clause of Ruin makes it better for tunnelling, so that's worse for survivors, but the perk is left in a useless state where the regression rate isn't worth a hex slot.
In other words, much like with the DS -> OTR shift, this change is somehow, some-freaking-how, WORSE FOR BOTH KILLER AND SURVIVORS.
How did they get this so wrong?
Again!?
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@AchlysShadeslayer said:
I was just sitting here thinking; "what if the survivors 99 3 gens and just hide for the remainder of the match?" This would be similar to survivors just not doing gens and hiding but having even one gen that is basically Repressed Alliance permanently sounds pretty good for forcing the killer into having to completely give up certain gens. Either that or perks that apply consistant instant regression like Surge will actually become bad because survivors could FORCE the killer to make a gen untouchable for the rest of the game. If used right a swf could bully a killer Even harder than usual, leaving them with literally nothing they can do at all. Similar to how a swf can manipulate Deadlock except its permanent instead of 30 seconds.
I was just sitting here thinking; "what if the survivors 99 3 gens and just hide for the remainder of the match?"
How is this different from doing the same thing now, without 99ing gens?
This would be similar to survivors just not doing gens and hiding but having even one gen that is basically Repressed Alliance permanently sounds pretty good for forcing the killer into having to completely give up certain gens.
I don't know, wasting at least 8 regression events' worth of progress just to immunise a gen that you probably could've finished already seems -really- wasteful.
Either that or perks that apply consistant instant regression like Surge will actually become bad because survivors could FORCE the killer to make a gen untouchable for the rest of the game.
By dying eight times?
Sounds like a bad strat.
If used right a swf could bully a killer Even harder than usual, leaving them with literally nothing they can do at all.
If the killer eats through 8 regression events per gen and still hasn't won the game or at the very least killed at least one survivor, the Swiffer didn't need the regression limit to bully that killer. At all.
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@jesterkind said:
To be fair, is there much point in designing perks for bad items nobody uses and that need to be overhauled anyway?
I'd say moreso than designing perks for items that are already useful. Might get some variety in!
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@Slan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/402373/pig-players-how-would-you-change-her
- Make the crouching and uncrouching animations faster
- Increase slightly the reach of the ambush, or perhaps the speed.
- Make her speed while crouching be 100%
- Make the timers of the Reverse Bear Traps shorter, not too much, but enough to make a difference.
I never saw pig as a stealth killer per se, I mean, you can see her easily from afar when she is crouching. I always thought that the RBT were meant to be her strongest feat but in reality they are not. I see more pig players relying on using mindgames with the ambush in-chase, and I am sure that is not the intended playstyle for her. Most times I see RBTs be ignored, it takes so long for it to kill you that reparirng one or two gens seems affordable for survivors while one has a trap on him. I would also make some status effect like, for example, hemorrage, be inflicted to survivors who wear a reverse bear trap a basekit feat. In my experience, traps are not that punishing for survivors, especially in swf.
Make the timers of the Reverse Bear Traps shorter, not too much, but enough to make a difference.
Strong disagree on that one. An RBT kill should be a failure on the survivor's part, not random luck. The more RNG gets involved, the more terrible she is to face and balance. If she can get a kill in a single down by pure chance, you can't buff anything else in her kit because she can, theoretically, be by far the strongest killer in the game.
In actuality it's likely not going to happen, but it's an eventuality you have to account for.
RBTs should be retooled to be for slowdown, not for killing directly.
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IMO, the complete RNG swing on the RBTs can be controlled to make things better for both sides. Just make each RBT take a random number from 2 to the total number of boxes -1, and that's how many boxes the survivor will need to clear to get the RBT off. This'll still put a tangible pressure on them, but they won't randomly get sniped for no reason, while simultaneously cutting off the absolutely terrible outcome of them lucking out on the first box and getting rid of Pig's major slowdown in no time at all.
And then just work on Ambush to make it more functional, like increasing the crouched movespeed and perhaps making the roar occur at the end of the charge-up, rather than the start. (And make a brown add-on to have the roar at the start. For meme purposes.)
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3625983#Comment_3625983
hatch doesn't work as stalemate fail safe in 3 gens because it doesn't spawn. it is there to try accelerate 1vs1 survivor. Speaking of which, Left behind is Key item perk. Plunderer instinct used to be a key item perk because it increases rarity of items and key is iri item so your more likely to get a key from plunders instinct. Many survivor used to run plundered back when keys were free escapes until they were eventually nerfed.
In term of aura reading, The key already have supporting perk to buff their aura reading capacities, this perk is called Open handed. It is just nobody uses it.
In terms of maps, Maps also have a supporting perk to buff maps. This perk is called detective hutch. it puts everything on the map. Again nobody uses it because pointless.
So the perk to improve unpopular items exists. they just suck.
Open-handed and Detective's Hunch aren't really perks focused on these items, and they don't really expand their functionality as much. I think there's more interesting ways in which these items could be put to use.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3625939#Comment_3625939
Why should a hook not be a chance to secure a kill??
You might aswell argue that as soon as 3 gens are done the survivors should win, because the killer could not stop it?
Or perhaps the game should just end as the last gen is done ?
Conversely, if there's that many survivors alive, with that much to spare, and they're all at an open exit gate, why should they not win? Why do the rules of the game need to be bent?
Keep in mind that we're not even talking about this being impossible to secure a kill from.
Just -hard-. You can get a kill, possibly even multiple. But you don't get to skip the requirements for it.
If you want quick EGC kills, bring NOED or Rancor.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3626279#Comment_3626279
Having Selfcare available to all four survivors for the cost of one perk slot out of 16, was broken.
It's nothing like the other Boons. Even Exponential on paper is "Unbreakable for all four survivors" but it's so highly situational and location reliant that it's not easily accessible. And when it is accessible, it's vulnerable.
But what does a survivor who needs to heal themselves always do? They run off to a safe spot across the map. CoH was far too efficient for a single perk that benefited the whole team. It was the only Boon that benefitted from being placed far, far away from where the killer would go.
It led to infinite healing loops, where you hit a survivor, they run off to a safe area away from all of your objectives, heal up, return, repeat.
The only way I see it coming back is with heavy restrictions. Something like adding "...also allows a survivor to heal themselves at 50% healing speed. In the event of a survivor recovering a health state by themselves, the totem is deactivated and must be reblessed."
It led to infinite healing loops, where you hit a survivor, they run off to a safe area away from all of your objectives, heal up, return, repeat.
What is this era where no one ever finished a chase?
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@Rovend said:
Makes me laugh that Pharmacy is such a bad perk for medkits that you dont even mention it.🤣
I legit forgot, but it's also an older perk, I think, compared to the others.
@Seraphor said:
Hatch isn't really a core mechanic anymore, it's a stalemate failsafe, so in their current iteration I don't see any perks interacting with Keys, unless it grants a broken key with useful add ons.
Doesn't need to be that, but having perks whose effects only come into play when you're holding a key, or that give new functions to a key or map could be an interesting addition to the game.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3625852#Comment_3625852
Bloodwarden require a hook after the gates have been opened, and i think most survivors know that if the killer opens that gate before hooking, they should get out ASAP.
And it is a free escape, as i already stated :
If the survivor is hooked somewhat near an open exit gate, its a free escape... nothing the killer can do about it.
I always tell my team to open the exit gate before unhooking me for that same reason.
Especially after the grabbing have been removed, survivor takes a hit while im getting unhooked, now i bodyblock with endurance and get sprint boost -> everyone gets out.
Easy win at that pont.
And it is a free escape, as i already stated :
But you are ignoring the entirety of the trial leading up to it.
At some point, yes, you as killer cannot secure a kill anymore. That is -normal-.
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It's a great camping tool, granting free extra time, plus it works with DMS, and it even serves as a handy-dandy indicator for the AFC!
Just like we wanted! /s