Firellius

@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624716#Comment_3624716
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624757#Comment_3624757
There's such thing called pressure.
You may think that getting so many procs of surge or eruption means killer is dominating entire team when in reality it could be the same or two survivors getting chain healed and downed. Think about cases where you had to down survivor and chase another because you see him doing a gen nearby. Cases where you need to spread the pressure one way or another. There are many other possibilities to consider.

If you keep doing that without getting any hookstate progression, you're not pressuring anything, you're going on goose chases.

in Returning back to No Kick / No Gen Regression meta. Comment by Firellius January 9, 2024

I mean, no amount of range will make Boon: Illumination NOT a throw perk, but other boons could be salvaged with extra range. Dark Theory in particular.

IMO, they should make it so that if you have multiple boons equipped, you get the worst stats of each, and then just give boons varied ranges and bless times.

in Boons... Comment by Firellius January 9, 2024

@Green_Sliche said:
Seriously, 8 regression events. It must be a joke, right?
So now perks like Surge or any other gen regression perk that can eat up these regression events without you wanting to means you may end up with generators that suddenly can't be regressed at all because survivors were either to reckless and ''drained'' those events by getting downed ( what Surge will do ) or perks like Pain Ress hitting the same gen over and and over so gen with relatively low progression will get events spent regardless.
Gen kick perks other than Pop are now bad and gen kicking is bad in general because you spend one of those 8 events for 5% regression which is reverted by survivor in 4 seconds once you leave the said gen. Before people say something like - I rarely get a game where I need to kick a gen 8 times or something, - guess what, now you will wish you had these kind of games more often because killers will now concentrate on tunneling one player out asap since gen regression gets limited.
All BHVR had to do is introduce this system when there are only 3 gens left on the map. Instead they now say - if you want to make a gen regress - make sure it does regress massively or don't touch it at all. Guess what is the best regression method in the game already? That's right - tunnel a player out. Once there are less players, this limitation suddenly doesn't feel so restricting anymore.
Mark my words - we will return to a meta where gen regression is either not effective or not possible at all. Games will be all about chase and people will simply tunnel the first target they down asap. You wanted one problem fixed - you ended up introduced few new ones.

So now perks like Surge or any other gen regression perk that can eat up these regression events

Surge only activates on a down, though, so if you're eating through these regressions with Surge, you're probably not going to see these gens progress at all because the survivors will all be dead.

Maybe a gen or two will lock up, but by that point, everyone's on death hook, or you already have one or two kills so what does it matter that you can't regress those gens anymore?

in Returning back to No Kick / No Gen Regression meta. Comment by Firellius January 9, 2024

@IHasDan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624702#Comment_3624702
I never said colossally buff killers, I only offered my ideas on what could possibly work. This would obviously need to be balanced and worked on more than I have. Nothing will ever stop tunnelling and i think tunnelling is fine in certain situations. This is only trying to give an incentive to go for others at the beginning of a match as right now there is none.

I know that's not what you think you said, but it is what you said for the reason I have described. Any 'incentive' would need to be more powerful than tunnelling, making it even more OP than tunnelling.

in Why most anti-tunnelling measures won't work. Comment by Firellius January 9, 2024

Thread #638 with the suggestion of 'just colossally buff killers and they'll totally stop tunnelling'.

Tunnelling is OP. Any alternative you want to create that competes with it would have to be -more- OP.

Tunnelling needs nerfs.

in Why most anti-tunnelling measures won't work. Comment by Firellius January 9, 2024

@Azulra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3622977#Comment_3622977
I just have to mention that all of your arguments in this thread have been illogical so far- You say that one side shouldn't get a free kill while also saying that the other side should get a free escape which is straight favoritism which, as been demonstrated in controversies from multiple places, isn't a good standing in debates. And it's not free kills either because the killer already did the work to down + hook that survivor and it would get the message through to a lot of players to not be greedy during endgame because there's a decent amount of survivors who could've had 3 escapes in my games end up only getting 1 escape because they got greedy for the unhook. THAT is called giving free kills.

You say that one side shouldn't get a free kill while also saying that the other side should get a free escape which is straight favoritism

Not at all. The hatch is not a free escape. It requires three survivors to die and for the last remaining survivor to reach the hatch before the killer does.

And it's not free kills either because the killer already did the work to down + hook that survivor

Downs are effectively unavoidable. Chases can take a while, but no chase will last forever. Without the help of the right perks, breaking a chase is nearly impossible.

in Endurance in endgame Comment by Firellius January 8, 2024

I think it's DS, UB, OTR, possibly Adrenaline.

It's predominantly perks that are designed to safeguard the survivors having three chances. Some folks really can't stand survivors having three chances and get upset over them having two.

in What are Second Chance Perks? Comment by Firellius January 8, 2024

@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623333#Comment_3623333
The game already grinds to a halt BECAUSE of the hatch. Because the last 2-3 survivors will often hide hoping you to kill the other(s) so that they are the ones who get the hatch. Encouraging the survivors to actively play against each other rather than against the killer.
Right, and those survivors lost the generator game, so again, why does the last survivor get 3 chances?
Theme doesn't matter anymore as BHVR continues to "gamify" things between the anti-camp mechanic, basekit bt, and the fact that survivors are the true power role if you watch any SWF team like hens/ayrun and you'll see that they don't actually care about theme.
Balancing the game around perks is bad
What does this have to do with anything
That is not actually true, most of the time the gates are on opposite ends of the map, and unless the survivor has already been spotted it is yet again another 50/50. So not only did you beat them at the game, but you won the 50/50 and now you need to win a second 50/50.
Sure, but it still doesn't change that it is a terrible mechanic.

This really doesn't happen nearly as often as you try to pass it off.
Why are you upset over the survivor getting 3 chances when the killer gets an endless supply of them?
'Survivors are the true power role!' No, they aren't. They never have been and never will be. 'Power role' does not mean 'Overpowered', 'Unbeatable' or 'Always wins'. The killer dictates the survivors' actions, not the other way around.
So should we just be blind to how perks interact with the rest of the game? Because in that case, we shouldn't fix hook spawns because they're not an issue. After all, we can't incorporate Boil Over into our balancing.
It is part of the complaint. The OP complains that if he hooks close to the gate, he has less opportunity to intervene if the survivor gets unhooked. Solution is to not hook by the gate.
Where'd you pull the gates from? They're talking about the survivor being -in chase- after the hatch is closed. A survivor's not gonna open the gates while the killer is chasing them, no matter how far apart the gates are.
It's a terrible mechanic -to you-. Because it may occasionally deny you one (1) kill. Everyone else understands the role the hatch plays in keeping the game fair and worth playing.

Also, if you were to remove hatch, kill rates would soar and most killers would need to be kneecapped and that's going to be much, much worse than occasionally having a survivor get out.

in Endurance in endgame Comment by Firellius January 8, 2024

It's not really as relevant anymore due to people healing less, but FTP + Resilience to steal someone else's injury and use it yourself is pretty funny.

in What are some interesting perk combinations we've all found? Comment by Firellius January 8, 2024

@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623093#Comment_3623093
The bias is astounding.
Your statement was "killer should not get a free kill in endgame because they lost the game" my response is "survivor should not get 4 second chances to escape because they also lost the game" You have to beat survivors 3 times in order to kill 4 of them. You have to beat them at the base game. Beat them to the hatch, and then beat them at the gate. Why do they get so many chance yet killers get 0?

You do realise that there's a gulf between 'no free kills' and 'getting a chance to win', right?

Killers still have plenty of chance to make kills at literally any point in the game, but just like the hatch isn't a guaranteed win, EGC doesn't guarantee a kill.

What you're arguing for here is the killer equivalent of saying 'hatch should always spawn near the last survivor'.

'Why do killers get 0?'

If you can't make any kills at any point in the entire game, or even put out enough pressure to make an EGC kill manageable, that's a you problem.

in Endurance in endgame Comment by Firellius January 8, 2024

@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3622967#Comment_3622967
I say the same thing about hatch but people still think hatch needs to exist. If you killed the survivors before they finished the gens, why do you have to close the hatch, and then the survivor STILL gets a chance to go through the gates?

Because that's actually fairer. The killer can still get a 4K with 0 hookstates after 5 gens are done. Without hatch/EGC, if there's a survivor dead at 5 gens, the other three are too.

Killers have an equivalent to the hatch in how the entire game is built. Survivors just get the hatch.

in Endurance in endgame Comment by Firellius January 7, 2024

@MrDardon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3622967#Comment_3622967
Getting to endgame doesn't automatically mean you've lost.. not sure where that always comes from.
Second, there might not be a hook in range, so you're forced to hook near the Exit. Also, the Survivor can literally run towards the Exit, making it impossible to reach a far hook.
I'm okay with it being hard getting a kill, but there is a difference between "hard" and "impossible".

Getting to endgame doesn't automatically mean you've lost

It also doesn't automatically mean that you are owed a kill. If the survivors

1) Cleared all the gens

2) Opened the exit gates

3) Managed to do so with multiple survivors still alive

4) With at least one or more that still have hookstates to spare

5) And all of them manage to make it to the opened exit gate

At some point, you as killer simply lose the game. You are not owed a kill. If you didn't make one, you don't get one. You could still get one, but you will have to struggle for it.

in Endurance in endgame Comment by Firellius January 7, 2024

@Hex_Ignored said:
a "lore" survivor, like Julian from Mikaela's backstory or another member of Felix' and Elodie's friend group

Yeah, I want more of the Pariahs too. Could be really interesting.

Also, Jesse Faden could be a cool survivor.

in Upcoming survivor - whom would you love to see? Comment by Firellius January 7, 2024

@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3622309#Comment_3622309
Killers standing directly at the hook. This was especially nasty if a Cannibal, Trickster or Huntress did it.
In that regard, I can say that I also got value from it. Had a Huntress standing right in front of me on the hook with her hatchet ready. Bar filled up and I got out. It worked exactly as intended.
Batteling camping as a whole needs a far more complex solution if you ask me.

Killers standing directly at the hook.

But that was never a complaint. The killer being too close wasn't the complaint.

Unhook denial was the complaint.

in why are all these new systems so bad? Comment by Firellius January 6, 2024

@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621798#Comment_3621798
If they have deliverance that's anything but throwing but ok.
Proxi camping is strong. But that was never meant to go with the anti face camp mechanic. That's all I wanted to say.
Camping and tunneling are also not an auto win strategy. Without the correct killer and on the wrong map, it can go very badly for the killer player. If the survivors are not on point though, it is very effective, yes.

They're not gonna get deliverance against a camping killer since it requires a safe unhook though.

What problem, exactly, was anti-facecamp supposed to fix, then?

in why are all these new systems so bad? Comment by Firellius January 6, 2024

@LeFennecFox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3622037#Comment_3622037
Or just completely rework/remove map related offerings because they give too much power to both sides

Honestly, I think they should be changed so that if a survivor burns an offering, it reduces the chance of that map appearing instead. That way, they can't control map spawns as much, but you can still have funny scratched mirror matches.

in Missing the point of a sac ward Comment by Firellius January 5, 2024

I suggest fixing it by making it not exclusive, and instead making it show up when the number of gens remaining is equal to, or less than the number of killed survivors. That'll fix lone-wolfing.

in Hatch mechanic is toxic and should be removed/reworked Comment by Firellius January 5, 2024

@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621738#Comment_3621738
Unhooking?

But if they unhook immediately, you're not camping, they're just throwing by giving you a free hookstate.

in why are all these new systems so bad? Comment by Firellius January 5, 2024

@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621588#Comment_3621588
Friend. If I hook someone and someone is already behind me, I CAN'T stop an unhook. It's not possible.

What's that got to do with camping?

in why are all these new systems so bad? Comment by Firellius January 5, 2024

@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621443#Comment_3621443
that's a matchmaking issue.
If the survivors are supposed to be judged as a team, then 1Ks should be turned to 0Ks with sacrificed survivors suddenly springing back alive and getting out for free, too.
nice. idk. i hang on the hook even in cases i know teammates won't be able to save me just to earn them some time, to get 5k bps. i mean that's about feeling you won, i suppose? a hatch escape after getting steamrolled doesn't feel like a win whatsoever but trading a hook and possibly dying for it for a 2-3 man escape that otherwise wouldn't happen feels like a win for me. the rewarding mechanism(?) isn't really logical.
hatch still causes more issues than it supposedly solves, though and nothing is more vile than that "lone wolf" playstyle hatch promotes.

I don't know, the alternative is leaving survivors with literally no other option than to bore the killer into quitting.

EDIT: Or we can bring old hatch back, that'd fix your issue with it.

in Your thoughts on forced 4K by Killer Comment by Firellius January 4, 2024

DBD Mobile isn't by BHVR though, is it? I thought it had a different developer?

in Why is BHVR putting all their eggs into mobile DBD? Comment by Firellius January 4, 2024

@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621365#Comment_3621365
being last alive doesn't reflect survivor's performance at all so they aren't relative. they might have hid all game or just happen to be last alive while being useful all match and taking necessary aggro also. that doesn't change the fact that survivor side is a team, and if they lost they lost, as a team; everyone in it. you don't get lp after you go 20/4 something in a lost match in league do you? same thing.

But a platinum player going up against five gold players with five iron players in their wake pulling them down doesn't make that platinum player suddenly a sub-gold, does it?

If the survivors are supposed to be judged as a team, then 1Ks should be turned to 0Ks with sacrificed survivors suddenly springing back alive and getting out for free, too.

in Your thoughts on forced 4K by Killer Comment by Firellius January 4, 2024

@roundpitt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621401#Comment_3621401
The thing that you give killers to do has to be basekit and in opposition to tunneling.
For example, if you only want to play the math game and not come up with something interesting, you could do something like;
Fear: Every hook state on a living survivor gives a token which reduces survivor’s healing and repair speed by 10%. This effect cannot exceed 50% healing and repair speed reduction. When a survivor dies all tokens are lost.
If you had three hook states on three different survivors, that’s 30%. That’s more value than hooking the same survivor 3 times by 5%. Congratulations, no one is going to tunnel. There’s no reason to.
How do you counter it? Don’t get hooked.

That's not enough though.

Regular game progression after the first hook is to have one person in chase, one on hook, one on rescue, one on gen.

If one survivor dies, it goes down to none on gen. So a 30% reduction is still 70% short. Killers would still tunnel with your suggestion, survivors would just be 10% slower after the first hook and 20% slower after the second.

You just buffed tunnelling.

in why are all these new systems so bad? Comment by Firellius January 4, 2024

@roundpitt said:
Basekit endurance was a success. It was needed. It only punishes killers who actively tunnel off hook. Does it prevent tunneling completely? No.
To stop tunneling you need to give killers something to do that provides more value than tunneling. Tunneling a survivor out effectively reduces all pressure from survivors by 25% permanently. If there was something killers could do to get that much value instead of tunneling, they would be doing it. If you prevent tunneling completely but don’t give killers some other way to get that value, people will just stop playing killer.
The anti camping system, in my mind, was not as much of a success. Not because it encourages camping, like you say. But because people still camp in spite of the system. I’ve seen it myself on Cenobite and Bubba. It doesn’t prevent much on some killers. It does prevent outright face-camping so it’s not a complete failure.
Again, I think the correct solution for anti camping would be to give killers something to do other than camping that has much more value. Why chase survivors when you can just wait for them to come and give you another free hook? At lower skill levels where it may take someone much longer to secure a down, camping makes a lot more sense.
What is that thing that killers could be doing? The possibilities are endless. But the solutions we received are unimaginative and ham handed. Unfortunately.

To stop tunneling you need to give killers something to do that provides more value than tunneling. Tunneling a survivor out effectively reduces all pressure from survivors by 25% permanently. If there was something killers could do to get that much value instead of tunneling, they would be doing it. If you prevent tunneling completely but don’t give killers some other way to get that value, people will just stop playing killer.

This same story gets regurgitated every time the word 'tunnelling' is mentioned. Tunnelling is not 'the only thing we have left', it's just flatly overpowered. If you want to make killers strong enough to not need tunnelling, you'd end up with a colossal inflation of kill and winrates for killers.

Tunnelling has to go. In part because almost everything you give to killers will also collaterally buff tunnelling.

in why are all these new systems so bad? Comment by Firellius January 4, 2024

@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621302#Comment_3621302
why would they need an extra chance to get a free escape after a lost match? how can you think the 4th kill is more free than rng escape out of nowhere lol

Problem is that whoever the last survivor is didn't necessarily fail. Whatever happened in the match cannot be put only and exclusively at their feet. If you want to do that, fine, but you have to admit that that survivor had literally 0% chance to 'succeed' to begin with, considering one survivor cannot do 5 gens and the gate by themselves.

The hatch doesn't need to be 'fair' to the killer, the killer already got everything they wanted out of the match by the time it comes into play.

in Your thoughts on forced 4K by Killer Comment by Firellius January 4, 2024

The issue is that anti-camp and anti-tunnel measures have to meet the demands of forum killers.

Which means they can't interfere with camping or tunnelling.

in why are all these new systems so bad? Comment by Firellius January 4, 2024

It's a colossal waste of time, honestly. The killer doesn't even get that much out of it, though any challenge or achievement that's still banking on a 4k should be reworked.

in Your thoughts on forced 4K by Killer Comment by Firellius January 4, 2024

For those who don't know what Dark Deception is: it's a horror styled first person pac-man game. It's broken up into multiple stages, with each stage offering a different enemy type. For example, there's a stage with invisible foes, there's one with enemies that hide themselves among inanimate replicas, and there's a weeping angel equivalent.

The story is about a deceased hedonist who is offered a chance to earn his way back to life so he can redeem himself to his family. In order to earn it, he has to help a lady that sold her soul to the devil steal the devil's power.

It's clearly not as iconic as FnaF, though, and I don't really know how you'd do a DD chapter when you'd need to figure out which stage to pick, first. FnaF is better material for an interesting gameplay addition.

in would you rather have Dark Deception, or fnaf join dbd? Comment by Firellius January 3, 2024

"A lot"

What is 'a lot'?

in Killers should play how they want because it's impossible to please most survivors Comment by Firellius January 2, 2024

3 safe unhooks to be able to take one hit? That's a terrible cost/reward balance.

Basically seems like a proper survivor perk.

in Survivor Endearance park idea, Named Savior Comment by Firellius January 2, 2024

@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619574#Comment_3619574
If BHVR could find a solution, where they completely removed weaponization from DS, without punishing survivors that were actually getting tunneled, would you accept that?

Sure.

But they already did.

in Would 5sec Decisive Strike really help with tunneling? Comment by Firellius December 31, 2023

@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619533#Comment_3619533
If the killer doesn't know which survivors have DS, and doesn't even know if anyone is even running DS, then yes, the best option is to tunnel and immediately pick people up, to burn through any potential DS. Then the best option is to double down and tunnel that survivor, because that survivor already used their DS if they had it.
And yes, if I eat a DS, then it absolutely encourages me to tunnel that survivor, because I already ate their DS, and I have no idea if anyone else has DS.
Why on earth should a killer respect DS, if they don't even know if a survivor is running DS? The odds are, over the course of many games, that the killer is better off not respecting DS, because there will be many times when a killer picks up a survivor, that survivor didn't have DS, and the killer can just throw them on a hook.

If the killer doesn't know which survivors have DS, and doesn't even know if anyone is even running DS, then yes, the best option is to tunnel and immediately pick people up, to burn through any potential DS. Then the best option is to double down and tunnel that survivor, because that survivor already used their DS if they had it.

Yes, after eating the DS, there's no reason not to tunnel anymore.

And if there's no DS in the first place, there's also no reason not to tunnel.

If anything, you are currently arguing that DS needs an even bigger stun, because it is currently not enough to properly function as a tunnelling deterrent! If you are arguing that eating the DS and just flatly tunnelling your way through it, then that proves that DS is not strong enough to do its job!

Otherwise it'd click that tunnelling is made worse by the presence of DS, and thus disincentivises tunnelling, not incentivises it.

Again, how do you compare 'Tunnelling' to 'Tunnelling, but you get smacked with a 5 second stun' and say that the second option is the better pick? Because that is legitimately what you are doing by saying that DS incentivises tunnelling!

Why on earth should a killer respect DS, if they don't even know if a survivor is running DS? The odds are, over the course of many games, that the killer is better off not respecting DS, because there will be many times when a killer picks up a survivor, that survivor didn't have DS, and the killer can just throw them on a hook.

That's why it needs to go back to what it was. Where it was so ubiquitous that you were pretty much guaranteed to get smacked with a 5 second stun if you decided to tunnel. Because then it worked as anti-tunnel.

Now, with a paltry 3 seconds that most killers will just eat through without much trouble, no one picks it anymore, and thus there's no reason for any killer to ever think twice about tunnelling.

in Would 5sec Decisive Strike really help with tunneling? Comment by Firellius December 31, 2023

@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619507#Comment_3619507
It's 3 seconds compared to 5 seconds.
Also, DS was nerfed because off the record was being presented as a healthier anti-tunnel perk.
Also, DS encouraged tunneling, because the optimal play was to immediately pick up anyone that might have DS, maybe eat a DS, then hard tunnel that person out of the game because the DS is out of the way. It's bad strategy to try to ignore a survivor because they might have DS, or to slug a survivor because they might have DS, because the killer doesn't actually know if the survivor has DS. And yes, there were people that pretended like they had DS, to see if they could bait the killer into leaving them slugged on the ground.

Also, DS was nerfed because off the record was being presented as a healthier anti-tunnel perk.

Nope, DS was nerfed because it had a high pick-rate. And OTR is not a healthier anti-tunnel perk, actually. It is, in fact, worse for both sides of the fence. It's better for bodyblocking since it doesn't incapacitate the survivor using it, and it can be disabled by tunnelling hard enough.

Also, DS encouraged tunneling, because the optimal play was to immediately pick up anyone that might have DS, maybe eat a DS, then hard tunnel that person out of the game because the DS is out of the way. It's bad strategy to try to ignore a survivor because they might have DS, or to slug a survivor because they might have DS, because the killer doesn't actually know if the survivor has DS. And yes, there were people that pretended like they had DS, to see if they could bait the killer into leaving them slugged on the ground.

And then what? Waste half a minute of their own time? Pull their fellow survivors off their gens to come to their rescue? This is an incredibly wasteful play that just throws the match for the survivors.

DS did not encourage tunnelling at all. The only thing it changed about tunnelling is that, for one hookstate, tunnelling was met with a 5 second stun-wall, that's it. That doesn't encourage tunnelling, that makes tunnelling flatly less efficient, by a margin of a five second stun.

How are you going to compare 'tunnelling' to 'tunnelling, except you get smacked in the face with a 5 second stun' and say 'Yeah, that second one is clearly the better option'?

in Would 5sec Decisive Strike really help with tunneling? Comment by Firellius December 31, 2023

@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619489#Comment_3619489
The fact that it's now 3 seconds addressed the weaponization. The perk needs to stay weak, unless BHVR can find a way to address the weaponization issue.
And besides, we now have buckle up + FTP, which is a much more powerful at extending chases.

But it's 3 seconds now versus 0 before. So why isn't it being used MORE?

in Would 5sec Decisive Strike really help with tunneling? Comment by Firellius December 31, 2023

@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619452#Comment_3619452
It was a popular perk because it could be weaponized. That's what a lot of people want. A perk that's anti-tunnel... but if the killer isn't tunneling, then the perk can still be weaponized against the killer so it's "not wasted".
If DS were changed so that it was truly only an anti-tunnel perk, that it wouldn't be as popular, because survivors would complain that "in some games it wouldn't get any value".

No, it was very popular and wasn't widely weaponized. With how high its pickrate was, you'd expect to see it 'weaponised' every match, but it was a rarity. Over the course of hundreds of killer matches played, I fell for it once and then punished maybe half a dozen survivors for trying to bait me.

Ironically, nothing about the way it was changed actually addressed this weaponisation. You can still use it in the way that folks are claiming was the only reason it was being picked up. So why aren't people using DS to bodyblock bait now? If anything, it should be MORE effective right now, since no one picks DS up anymore so killers are infinitely more likely to eat the stun!

So why isn't it being used that way now?

in Would 5sec Decisive Strike really help with tunneling? Comment by Firellius December 31, 2023

@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619376#Comment_3619376
If a survivor is purposely bodyblocking, or otherwise purposely trying to bait the killer into eating a DS, then they aren't being tunneled. DS is supposed to be an ANTI TUNNEL perk. Slugging is unacceptable, because it's basically giving the other survivor an extra health state, because the killer has to waste an attack on someone else.
Let's be honest. People are concerned that they might not be able to weaponize the perk. I'm sure BHVR could find some way to determine if a DS user is the primary chase target, or if the killer is chasing someone else, and the DS user keeps following the primary chase target instead of running in a different direction. And if BHVR couldn't figure that out, then having false positives would be better than allowing survivors to weaponize a perk that shouldn't be weaponized.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619431#Comment_3619431
5 second DS was a problem, because many people were weaponizing it. That's the reason it got the conspicuous action nerf. And when survivors STILL weaponized the perk, it's why it ultimately got the duration nerfed.
And it needs to disable on entering a locker, because that prevents the killer from being able to slug the survivor. If people honestly want to say "just slug the DS survivor", then the killer needs the option to actually slug the DS survivor.

"5 second DS was a problem, because many people were weaponizing it. That's the reason it got the conspicuous action nerf. And when survivors STILL weaponized the perk, it's why it ultimately got the duration nerfed."

No, it got the duration nerfed because it was a highly picked perk. Same reason Ruin got gutted. It had nothing to do with it being 'weaponised' after the conspic nerf, that was never even brought up as an issue because it's incredibly easy to circumvent.

"And it needs to disable on entering a locker, because that prevents the killer from being able to slug the survivor. If people honestly want to say "just slug the DS survivor", then the killer needs the option to actually slug the DS survivor."

Why do you get to have that kind of control over an ANTI-TUNNEL perk when you are TUNNELLING? You want to tunnel like that, eat the stun.

in Would 5sec Decisive Strike really help with tunneling? Comment by Firellius December 31, 2023

@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619348#Comment_3619348
There were many people that were still weaponizing the perk after the conspicious action nerf, so there were a bunch of people that still thought it was a good idea.
And, we all need to remember that buckle up + FTP is now in the game, which means there will be SWFs that absolutely would weaponize DS if it was brought back to 5 seconds, just so they can combo it in as an actual health state. SWFs with voice comms was always where weaponized DS was the most obnoxious.

There were many people that were still weaponizing the perk after the conspicious action nerf, so there were a bunch of people that still thought it was a good idea.

IF the killer takes the bait, it does work out for the survivors. But any competent killer will only fall for it once and never again. And from that point onwards, trying to 'weaponise' DS is just throwing. So some people will try to take that gamble, and a lot of them will get themselves and the other survivors killed over it.

We've had 5 second DS for over a year, in which it was not even remotely a problem. For some reason, people are now needling a perk that's been proven to be healthy for gameplay to cramp it and restrain it as much as possible. Introducing new fail states to try and save the one killer that just slams that spacebar the moment they get a down without any kind of thought.

Survivors perks are allowed to do a thing. They don't all have to be No Mithers and Autodidacts.

I don't even agree with the locker disable. Why would it disable on entering the locker? The only way that that is a problem is if the killer is tunnelling, so why would it disable under that circumstance?

in Would 5sec Decisive Strike really help with tunneling? Comment by Firellius December 31, 2023

Currently, splitting up is both the most efficient, and the safest method of doing gens. It's pretty much a no-brainer. Which is annoying, but there's a problem if you try to invert it.

I have thought about it before, making gens take longer at base, but then inverting the co-op penalty to a co-op bonus to encourage grouping up on gens, making it easier for the killer to get pressure in. It would also reward the killer more for occupying a survivor's time, or incapacitating them, which sounds great on paper, as it's a way to give the killer more playtime without necessarily condemning survivors to more M1 holding.

But the problem is that camping and tunnelling are still things, and those would be buffed massively by such a change. Currently, a hooked survivor cannot cost the survivors more than 1 c/s, barring gen-speed perks. If you were to invert the co-op penalty to a co-op bonus, that hooked survivor can cost considerably more than 1 c/s.

So until that's fixed, you can't really do anything about this.

in Why is making a generator alone better than making a generator together? Comment by Firellius December 31, 2023

@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619190#Comment_3619190
It's still weaponizing the perk. Survivors are purposely weaponizing the perk, and that needs to be fixed. The actual anti-tunnel part can stay. And super honestly, if people really truly want to use DS as an anti-tunnel perk, then they shouldn't care if the weaponizing part gets nerfed.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619168#Comment_3619168
The fact that survivors were purposely bobdyblocking, purposely baiting the killer, and purposely trying to get the killer to eat a DS, means the survivors were weaponizing the perk. And why would you care if the weaponizing part gets nerfed? You obviously would never try to use DS offensively, right? Because if you don't, then you shouldn't care if the weaponizing part gets nerfed, because it wouldn't affect you at all, right?

Because you're not going to isolate the 'weaponising' part. How're you going to distinguish between 'bodyblock' and 'another survivor happened to be nearby'?

Pre-6.1 DS was fine, outside of the EGC usage. This talk of it being 'weaponised' only arose once people started asking for 5 sec DS back.