Emeal
Emeal
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@Alionis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3729876#Comment_3729876
I'm sorry, but no, a wiki isn't a game guide, it's a game encyclopedia. If people look to it for gameplay guides, they're looking in the wrong place and that mistakes is solely on them.
You may believe the two to be the same, but they are by definition two different things and you're trying to call an apple an orange.
Unfortunately for your argument it is a common association. I myself have used many guides found on wikis.
Besides we should not deny people the help they seek when they come to the wiki.
Therefore… the Wiki should contain strategy information. Simple as.
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I would be happy if Map Offerings became as rare as Ebony Moris, that way they are easier to avoid picking in the bloodweb.
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@JackOf4llTrades said:
Bump. I guess nobody cares about problems with items and massive grind or 100 prestige for 70+ survs and killers? Everything fine for DBD community and devs?
Well it might be that the Bloodweb System is just a mini entertainment system for getting useful items in between matches.
But im sure bHVR wishes they could make all addons a good choice, but that would take crazy amount of time, revisions of revisions. So it would likely be a slow process. They could probably use a lot more survey data on this too. It would take years.
And to some degree that are already doing it with addon passes, but I guess you want to faster?
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I second this notion, I believe bHVR should take a look at the sum of beginner friendly perks and add those to the general perk pool and then give the character a new perk. I know its monetizable to have good perks on a character, but it is simply too greedy to do this to the new player in the game. The person who needs the best tools to learn to play the game, seems to be the person bHVR is demanding the most from, its too harsh in my opinion.
I encourage bHVR to take a look, make a list of all the Perks that are good for new players. Add those to the general perk pool and make new ones to replace them on that character. This would make the beginner experience WAY better in the long run.
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Yeah, he feels incredibly addon dependent and the Power needs to get taken a look at. Its terrible when the Power bugs out.
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@Alionis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3729482#Comment_3729482
A wiki is first and foremost a place for information: stats, facts, trivial knowledge, etc. It is not a game guide, there is a reason those exist alongside wikis for most games out there. The two fulfill different functions.
I wholly agree with the wiki editors in that they prefer to just list factual information and keep that up-to-date, which is already a momentous task by itself, rather than also give gameplay tips and instructions that can quickly become outdated or that different people have different opinions about.
I think the wiki crew should be welcoming Killer experts in to create pages of Strategy.
- People come to wikis for help.
- People go to wikipedia for facts.
dbd wiki is not a wikipedia, because if it was people would not look at it for help.
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Would you post some gameplay so we can see how you manage this?
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I have always found it strange that bHVR has a super useful system for giving players info during loading screen. But instead of putting advice from their most knowledgeable players, the advice and directions are very arbitrary.
If I was director for a second, I would start a program for filling the loading screen with the most useful instructions for Killer counter play for Survivors. I would ask the bHVR statistians, "which Killer has the highest Killrate for lower mmr" and start there.
Also @Unimatrix00
Is the Site Dead by Daylight Wiki not good enough for people as a guide to the game? I mean, it is basically the offical copendium for the game, no?Actually this is an issue I have complained to the wiki editors about many times myself, they do not actually give constructive advice on that website. They only state the facts about Killer. I personally believe they should, but they don't. They dont want to deal with the momentous task of keeping up knowledge and are perfectly fine letting video creators deal with that.
We as community has to realize that the wiki does not help new people much, it only gives them facts.
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@Skillfulstone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3728942#Comment_3728942
There's a difference between knowledge of a Killer's kit (although add-on-less Doc isn't exactly rocket science) and being essentially forced to run an iri add-on to do a challenge. This single challenge can potentially cost quite a few BP depending on a player's interest in Doc.
I'm all for challenges requiring game knowledge (for example a challenge that would require Artist to get a down/injury through a wall) but I'm a bit iffy about challenges requiring an add-on.
Funny side-note: I don't think I've ever seen you agree with someone's complaint despite seeing you everywhere XD
Im not iffy about that at all.
I would be way more concerned about challenges that are badly functioning.
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I am perfectly fine with challenges that require knowledge of the Killer to complete.
its a chance to deepen yourself with Doctor and understand more. -
Yeah, I wanna see how the rates compare normals mode vs. chaos shuffle.
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@Peanits said:
Hey folks, I see a lot of questions and confusion so I'm going to do my best to clear up as many as I can.
About the program itself:
- This program is not new, it has existed since shortly after the game's release. Previously consultants were not able to confirm they were part of the group without breaching their NDA. We have recently restructured the program and allowed members to say that they are members.
- Consultants are asked for opinions on upcoming changes and invited to closed playtests where they can give feedback.
- While the program itself is now public info, the details of what they are playtesting and/or giving feedback on are not. Please do not ask them what's going on in there, they cannot tell you.
- There is no public list of all consultants, nor do we plan to share one. We leave it up to each person to decide if they are comfortable disclosing it as it could attract unwanted attention and/or scrutiny.
About consultants and requirements:
- Consultants do not need to be content creators. While some are, others are not.
- There is no application process. We select and invite people who would be a good fit for the program and fill the needs we have in terms of experience with specific aspects of the game.
- Being selected as a consultant is not simply a reward for being a die-hard fan. Consultants are contractors who are paid and have certain responsibilities.
- Consultants have varying experience (e.g. Killers they've mastered), preferences, playstyles, and skill levels.
About the consultants role & responsibilities:
- Consultants must participate in closed playtests. Inactive consultants would be removed from the program and replaced with someone who is able to participate.
- It is a consultant's duty to give feedback on upcoming changes that are presented to them.
- Consultant feedback is used to help make informed decisions, but it is not the sole deciding factor. We need to keep in mind that consultants are highly experienced players and that their impressions may not always align with the wider community (though they often do).
- Consultants do not come up with balance changes and are not responsible for how things turn out. It falls on us to decide what needs to be acted upon. (Please do not harass consultants if there is a change you do not like.)
- Consultants are not QA - it is not their responsibility to test the game and find bugs.
Qualities we look for in consultants (among other traits):
- Trustworthy, as they are given information early
- A wide range of experience within the game (and ideally experts in certain areas)
- Able to provide constructive feedback
- Able to maintain a civil discussion with people who have differing opinions
- Able to set aside biases when giving feedback or acknowledge that their biases may be influencing their opinions
Most importantly, none of this means that your feedback doesn't matter. This program helps us gather feedback for changes early on in development and make adjustments before they are revealed. Once they hit the PTB, feedback from the wider community is just as important.
I like this last part:
Most importantly, none of this means that your feedback doesn't matter. This program helps us gather feedback for changes early on in development and make adjustments before they are revealed. Once they hit the PTB, feedback from the wider community is just as important.
Could it ever be possible for developers to go though some of the changes ever made and say something about how we helped?
Its mostly because I see a lot of people messaging that they don't feel listened too, but I understand its a silent understanding relationship we have here with feedback. But I think all people have an innate need to be acknowledged. -
@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3728301#Comment_3728301
naah, poll for every single rift
not possible as those cosmetics are made in advance most likely.
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3727981#Comment_3727981
I personally think they stopped truly reading years ago, the actual developers use to communicate a lot more on here, but you know this community just loves to ruin a good thing and people started responding to comments the devs made with insults and a little over the line criticism in my opinion, slowly but surely they've stopped all together and we only really see Mandy and Rizzo on here now to tame the crowd when they get too wild and not people who are actively designing and coding this game giving us what insight they were allowed like before.
No, they do read it. I know some developers in private and they have acknowledged my existence here for better and worse.
There are also multiple changes which I have seen go through which I have made passionate posts about.
I am not the cause of those changes, but If I am able to make good convincing arguments that seem like a better solution for bHVR, then they are willing to go that direction. This is how we know they do read them or they read the reports that Mandy, Rizzo and Peanits make for them. Devs are busy people, cant sit here all day like we do D: -
Let the Community pick the Deep Rift Colors every year!
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I dont care about the extra bloodpoints, I will scrample my perks for fun.
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I like these ideas.
Make the perk be able to 'correct' for a Survivor failing a skill check right next to you for free.
You start with 1 token.
If you succeed this Corrective action skill check, gain 1 token.
if a survivor fails a skill check map wide. correct for that one too. consuming 1 token.
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Us Forum posters need a Union!
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bHVR is not going to just take what the consultants say uncritically, bHVR has a design process and all ideas must go through it.
This is absolutely fine approach for bHVR to take. I just hope they wont stop reading the forums, cause thats what we are here for.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3727308#Comment_3727308
That is just phrasing. Whether you call it bridging the gap of existing differences, evening out the tools they have or just "equal opportunities", that is all pretty much the same. Sure the degree to which you bridge this gap differs, but in the end is about balancing the differences out.
Right, but has bHVR given any word on more than needs to be done on this gap?
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@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3727304#Comment_3727304
Because her kit has way too much, instant injures, free hindered , haste, tracking, stealth. She has way too much. I think she needs some form of change, her currently design is unhealthy, and extremely boring to verse.
isnt that just because people dont disable the drones?
If you don't do them, she gets buffed and you run the risk of damage.I play vs teams that do the drones and she is pretty weak.
I suppose Survivors need a better reason to do drones than doing it for others, but to remove clawstacks seems bad because her rate at getting those is so bad when the drones get done properly.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3727301#Comment_3727301
Considering they added the hud to even the grounds in opportunity between those two I would assume that is still their intention. The goal should always be same tools not same outcomes…
What? Why are you assuming that was their motivation for doing it? They said to bridge the gap not "equal oppertunities."
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Why do you believe those changes are required for Skull merchant?
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3727190#Comment_3727190
The gap in outcome, not the gap in opportunity… I'm not about outcome at all.
huh? Yeah I dont recall seeing bHVR saying they would give SoloQ and SWF equal opportunities.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3727125#Comment_3727125
I would not say that, everything that is different when it comes to the players like mentality for example is not really a tool, just like the idea to die for your team... That's just a thing that specific player does. I would define tools more in the sense of what Iinformation, perk, addons, offerings items and what not you have.
I guess that is what you meant? Unless you mean that bhvr most likely won't close the gap between solo and swf.
The gap is less than 10%, You have to play 10 games on average to experience a real difference.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3727095#Comment_3727095
All what seems to make out coordination for you seems to become easier when you have a way to communicate, not necessarily via voice chat but via anything, maybe it is the easiest with voice chat though. However it seems to me that lack in those things might be a result of lack in communication... Calling it selfish was just an example, not necessarily the only thing.
Well when you can communicate with your team it makes it so you can feel more like a unit with the same goals and what not, whereas currently you can play as selfish as you want and the incentive to go down for the team, despite it maybe being the right thing to do to win is not really there, that might change though. People could be more supportive in the match, make callouts and hopefully people will also get better when they are able to communicate and coordinate better.
Sure some people will never get good, but then that feature just is not for them if they are either unable or unwilling to improve... Does not make it a bad idea though.
I suggest that the statement they made is not worth anything, because it is nothing more than an assumption, they did not explain their reasoning, they did not mention which data it is based on or what brought them to the conclusion. And they also did not mention why they believe that communication is not a big factor when it comes to coordination. Which makes the statement useless, because there is no way for us to understand why they said it, aside from trying talk the issue smaller than it is. Because if that's not the reason why not just be transparent about that stuff... Not only would it be way more convincing if they did so it would also put an end to the seemingly endless debate of adding communication to the game, and I think that is just a weird thing to do.
I don't necessarily want voice chat, I just want an even playground when it comes to tools for all players. If it does not happen well so be it.
I just want an even playground when it comes to tools for all players.
Chances are you wont ever see this, because SWF comes in with like way more than stuff than communication, than a SoloQ does.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3727010#Comment_3727010
As for your 2nd point of bhvr stating that… Basically everyone called them out for this nonsense. The reason why people don't commit to saving someone is because they lack information/coordination to pull it off properly… And not that everyone in soloq is just selfish or whatever… It is also quite obviously false when you think about it… You can't really tell me that the information you gain through voice chat is so insignificant that it does not matter towards the escape rate… Trying to make me believe that would insult my intelligence… Not needing perks soloq players run is a huge benefit, saving time when splitting up or going for a save is a huge benefit, not leading the killer to other survivors, not running into deadzones because you can potentially ask your mates which tiles have been used and what not. The benefits are quite big and it is fairly obvious that they exist, how could you even deny any of it and just say "It is not information, but commitment"… That's ridiculous.
You like typing dots? …
People can call out bHVR all they want. But coordination is more than just not being selfish so that is a false assumption.Being coordinated involves more than just not being selfish; it requires clear communication, role clarity, synchronized efforts, mutual support, adaptability, and collective decision-making. Coordination ensures that team members work harmoniously and efficiently towards a common goal, going beyond simply putting the team's interests above individual interests.
However the problem isnt just that all those problems would go away if everyone was in a SWF team on Discord. Rather that people who play together well, stick together and becomes teams and people who dont, do not. Which does lead the uncharismatic summary conclusion that some SoloQ people are just bad, but we knew this already. That isn't ridiculous, its fact.
Furthermore you seem to suggest that this is a reason bHVR states for them to not put in VoiceChat to gain coordination. But its not, you may want voicechat really much. But there are many reasons why that wont happen, especially when you can use discord.
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I agree. bHVR could make a system that checks for for self unhooks during early game.
Or another solution is to remove self-unhook unless its gonna succed. Keep the waving tho its a good signal.
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bHVR just need to make a system that check how often you self unhook in the early games and then punish people for it.
The idea that bHVR should remove disconnection is only going to increase rage quitting and I don't care to play against robots.
Anyone who remembers the times we have severe server issues ought to remember that when the DC penalty was removed, players quit over anything. Its a super bad idea. -
"What is a man???"
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The red scratches HAVE been very irregular for a while now.
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@NerdGaming_TTV said:
I think it would be better than people dead hooking at the beginning of the game because they hate the killer and there are alot of players that don't care about what killer they get. If its about selecting perks to counter the killer then how is it fair that the killer can see flashlights in the lobby and put on lightborn or franklin. The developers can make it where the killer can't see the survivors also 🤔 that would be better i guess
than people dead hooking at the beginning of the game because they hate the killer
If this is the case then we should increase the penalty so quitters can stay out of the game longer, so they wont disturb the players.
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- Sounds like a perfect reason people have to people leave a lobby. The reality is players are incredibly fickle, so some will leave.
A better solution would be bHVR think that pressing escape and checking the team's perks isnt a good enough solution and then display the nearest survivor within 4m's perks Example:
- A basic communication wheel for emotes would be cool, but its another thing when you want to make it so Survivors can share the Killer location outside of the Chase Icon. As has been stated and shown by bHVR before is that the last percentage of SoloQ vs. SWF is more a problem of commitment to saving people rather than a communication issue. You wanting to send a message that the Killer is there without engaging in a chase is also gonna impact the Killer's gameplay negatively. This would make hiding a superior strategy.
- I don't want a ping system for the same reason explained in reason 2. It gives Survivors so much power.
- Sounds like a perfect reason people have to people leave a lobby. The reality is players are incredibly fickle, so some will leave.
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Dark Devotion or Unforseen on the Doctor, Activate then walk to otherside of the map. I did it first try.
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Make it 999.
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I don't see the need to make it basekit, but bHVR should move it into the general perk group and give Kate a new perk.
I see it as a general big mistake by bHVR to make super good perks for people who are beginners and then making them pay for them, people end up getting those perks when they don't need them.
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The buff Survivors have been asking for…
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@cornbreadeater said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3726461#Comment_3726461
I pretty much just started playing the artist and I don't understand what you're saying about her in the slightest. These challenges are very easy and pretty much exactly how your highest MMR players are going to play her. In fact, I've had a lot more success using her ability in chases rather than as area denial, as most good survivors will temporarily hop off of a generator right as you send the birds out.
I'm not assuming (and I don't think anyone else is) that because you're having a bad time with her that you're playing her wrong—we're trying to say that your struggle to complete the challenges that most Artist players will get just by playing her normally highlights that you aren't playing her well. Whether or not you like her is entirely dependent on how you like to play as killer, not your skill with a particular killer. And no, being good at a different mechanically obtuse killer does not mean you'll inherently be good at the Artist. It's like saying Nurse mains are going to be inherently good at any killer because Nurse is hard to master—she has entirely different playstyle!
I'm not going to lie to you and tell you that I love the specific killer/survivor challenges, because I don't. I actually really dislike being forced to play someone I don't want to play and especially so when I don't have decent perks on that character, however it isn't because the challenges themselves are difficult. It's just annoying being forced to play something you don't want to play in the first place.
Additionally, the point about her pick rate is fairly moot. The killers with the highest pick rates are almost entirely the free killers, ones from specific IPs, the ultra-strong ones (like Blight), or something in-between (like Nurse and Mastermind). She isn't a free killer, she's quite challenging to learn but easier to play against (with beginners), and even when you do learn her she isn't an insane killer like Nurse or Blight—she's just good.
Feedback is important and it's fine to have opinions, but just saying "the killer isn't fun to play in a way that it isn't designed to be played in" isn't really going to be valuable feedback. In my opinion and in basically every other person's opinion on this thread, you can't fairly assess the killer if you aren't playing them correctly. And really, if you aren't completing the challenges, you aren't playing her how she's designed to be played, no matter whatever MMR you think you are. I think if you ask most experienced DBD players, they'll say the Artist is actually in one of the best places rn. Not too strong, not too weak, decent skill progression, not totally unfair to play against, balanced addons, etc.
I suggest you watch an experienced Artist player play her and try to get some sort of aura reading perks on her. I like watching Otzdarva with new killers because he formats his videos well and is good at killer in general, but there are others who are experts at her specifically that might be even better to watch. I particularly like Barbecue and Chili, I'm All Ears, Lethal Pursuer, and Gearhead for a full aura build, but I'm also not an expert Artist player. I will say though that those perks will make the challenges MUCH easier. Learning how to predict survivor movements when you can't see them completely is incredibly important on her and delaying shooting the birds until the right moment can be really useful.
And, my best suggestion: don't do a specific killer challenge if you don't want to play or properly learn a new killer. I don't think I've ever seen a character specific challenge on the tomes that forces you to play a character in order to complete the tome. They have multiple routes, so just play the killer(s) you enjoy and do the challenges that aren't specific and call it a day.
You seem to misunderstood completely why I brought Singularity, its because its a Killer I have learned to play. But I have spent far more time on Artist than Singularity. The reason this was brought up was because a user accused me of having the wrong mindset, as if they could read my mind. The reason this was brought up was that the user is trying to invalidate my critique and dislike of the Artist by questioning if my mindset was right. No say I, my mindset is fine, again, it is the same mindset I used with Artist I took my time and finished like half the challenges in 4hours.
No pickrate is actually worthwhile to look at, it shows you what Killer your players want to play as. its pretty important.
I also don't think its worth it to ask the most experienced DBD players about anything, bHVR does not make the game for the 1%.
You will lose accessibility, enjoyment of casual players and retention. Give me a game that is designed for the people instead.I suggest you watch an experienced Artist player play her and try to get some sort of aura reading perks on her.
Its incredibly bad when the best bHVR can do for its new Killer players playing a Killer. Oh go watch a youtube video about it.
Well I did and It didnt go much better. But I have subbed to some Artist Streamers.don't do a specific killer challenge
Yeah, I wish you could go back in time and tell me that before I give it a try. But in fact Ill much rather write criticism to bHVR than not do a challenge. Chances are they change the Killer and make it better for me, which is what we all want.
@DerpedByDave said:
These challenges are the sole reason I can play artist now, keep trying and experimenting you might surprise yourself.
What is a reasonable amount of time to do this?
Either way bHVR will have stats on this, showing how many times people attempted this with no progress.
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if they do a racing game, I hope its like Mario double dash. With two people in the Car just because Idd love to see Killers and Survivors work together in pairs to beat the other pairs.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3726376#Comment_3726376
Look, I don't completely get what you are trying to say with it, but I don't try convince you that Artist should be fun for you or something. I'm trying to say that Artist isn't "shut down loop and go next" killer like many new Artist players think, her gameplay is way deeper. Try to not use her power only as trap on a pallets, it will help a lot.
Again, assuming I dont already do that.
You seem to be working from the assumption that if someone is having a bad time with the Killer they are playing it wrong.
Which is false, Artist need changes and you will admit to this as well, no Killer is perfectly designed.Artist has always had a terrible pick-rate, its not controversial tell the developer I find her not entertaining, especially when they have suggested I try her out with these terrible challenges. This is what feedback is all about.
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Chaos Shuffle is great, but we assume that every perk will grant us a benefit in some in the match.
Me using Shattered Hope and nobody uses Boons. 🤡
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@fussy said:
The way the Artist is designed (not too entertaining) means her power is most often used for area denial…
Try to get rid of this mindset and it will be much easier. I did it all at first try without even remembering about these challenges, because all of them are basicly usual Artist gameplay.
I play Singularity, trust me I have given her more patience than I have ever given any other Killer. Besides its not a mindset, its a conclusion based on the games I have had with Artist. If Artist games make me conclude that she is rather annoying and boring to play and that I can contrast that to the Most Obtuse mechanical Killer, The Singularity. I think I am able to fairly asses the Killer.
Honestly assuming my assessment of the Artist being unfair, is pretty unfair assessment by you.
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@MixxdMedia said:
I’m relatively new to the game, and I don’t know many of the perks based on their icons. Especially newer ones. It would be nice if when you loaded in, there was a way to hover over the perks (or a different mechanic) and see what they do, as unless I get perks I’m familiar with, I have no way of telling what perks do other than googling them, which wastes time and makes me afk
You don't need to, just focus on playing the game if you are new. But taking a quick check on all 4 when you start the game is smart.
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There are Survivor sweatlords too, you know.
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Lady D please.
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and a hotdog stand.
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Agreed. The current only looks like me at 3am at the fridge looking for a bag of shredded cheese.
Its worth a revision.
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bHVR already did a good tutorial in their first videos on their channel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS3DvvOQI04 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gtu153S5y6oI don't think the tutorials are as good as these, and frankly doing tutorials are boring.
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I want this to be a feature. I also want the game to randomly give me addons and offerings.
It is just great to have all that stuff off my mind.
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I see people here talking about secondary objectives and no punishments for Killers here.
Yet Survivors pull off Hooked Survivors still within my TR, and I should not take advantage of that?????