EldritchElise87
EldritchElise87
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Idk, I just consider a game where 5 gens get done as a failure as a killer. I used NOED a lot for the first 100 hours or so (Especially when I played a lot of Trapper) but my goal as killer is points and pips, and NOED kind of goes against that.
I have nothing against it, but even M1 killers can apply pressure if you play smart, but its always got the stigma of using it is admitting defeat. (The psychological effect of being called baby, noob, various slurs for daring to use a perk might be part of this bias too though.)
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Yeah that would be insane. Snares are actually useful in a chase, and you can pretty much negate most window loops and the majority of pallets without dropping speed. (The snares are visible, sure, but they also thicc, if you put them in the right places (not even then, because you can just spam them.) survivors can't run around them or disable them like they can with hag or trapper, they just have to either take it or abandon that route.
They could be a little smoother in placement, but they are fine.
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Considering that you need to take 2 perks to actually use Spirit Fury, no. If it didn't require enduring to work then fair enough.
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We have this thread every week.
NOED is a crutch, rewards the killer for doing badly, and is unfair in certain situations. But the way the game and emblems work, most killers will move on from using it as they get better. (Given that going into a match expecting 5 gens to be done is usually someone who gets yeeted on consistently, and now unless you did everything perfectly just letting all the gens be completed is a saftey or even a depip, even if you 4k afterwards)
Saying that, I think its a perk that most killers use at a certain points as they play, I know for me I used it for my first 100 hours of playing killer or so, as it seemed a good option and I was trash, but as you get better its something you leave behind. (Partially because taking a perk isnt really worth being called slurs on your steam profile every day, or just generally guaranteed that the post-game chat will cause severe depression for a noed-using killer) It is a crutch, but so is a lot of perks-
Learning totem spawns inst that difficult. And if someone is being camped with NO-ED then just leave- (Although pulling off a save with good baiting/borrowed time/dead hard to rescue someone with noed on is a bit of a rush if you pull it off.)
In terms of feeling fair, NOED can suck, but in terms of actual game-balance its not that bad, do bones, plan for it. If you don't have anyone in a chase when you pop the last gen, its not a problem, if you do, you either lose a guy or everyone ends up killing themselves. NOED at best will get a bad killer a pity kill unless the survivors do something stupid.
And really is giving a bad killer 1 pity kill at the end (After that survivor has had all game to get points/pips) any worse than denying a killer a kill/down with adrenaline? There are a lot of killers that rely on a survivor losing a chase to be activated.
tldr- do bones, get to higher ranks where its not used as much, don't worry about it.
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Moris are annoying in certain situations but this would make it overly situational.
My idea has always been make moris only be usable after all 4 survivors have been hooked once. This keeps them powerful, but removes the ablity to use them just to tunnel one person out of the game instantly.
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Yeah this is what they have talked about on stream a couple of times, more frequent pallets but very few safe ones, most have counterplay to them. Its a good way to do it.
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Well, I hope this continues, I like add ons that radically change your playstyle, and I hope they take this philosophy with future killers and add on reworks in future. I realise it may be impossible to change older killers too drasticly without calling it a full rework. (And really, as much as it would be cool, full power reworks should only really be done for serious balance issues such as Freddy or Legion, they shouldn't be overdone. Only other killer that needs a full rework is probably LF perhaps Trapper to bring them up to spec.)
But for future killers i'd love to see more alternate options with add-ons. It adds a different layer of strategy and changes how you approach each killer as a survivor too. Freddy isnt perfect, but the direction hes been taken in makes me really positive about the future of the game.
Also Wraiths soot add-on, pigs old combat straps, there has been a few commons and other tiers that change gameplay to varying degrees, so its not without precedent. That and most irris that change the gameplay are a net buff to the killer, they don't take away the original power they either make it much better or change it in a way that dosn't take anything away. (Aside from a couple of exceptions.)
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They are working on what makes SWF opressive in the map changes, removing longer loops, reducing the number of safe pallets and generally making looping a way to buy extra seconds and escape, as opposed ro just being able to mindlessly run for an entire game.
And you know what, ill say this as a Killer veteran, SWF can be annoying, when you get a perfectly optimised group that play every tile optimaly with pitch perfect routes, those are incredibly rare even at R1, and if your team has got to that level of communication and skill, yes you should have an advantage. Just as putting hundreds of hours into Nurse should give you an advantage to learn her.
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No, No no.
Because any ability to recover exhaustion in a chase, and we have infinites again. Even at 60 seconds.
If the maps are reworked to the point where recovering exaustion while running won't create infinite loops again, sure, but as is now, no. Surley survivors realise theres no fun in chases that are 100% safe for the survivor, it was boring before because there was no risk.
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I think if BHVR gets the licences for Predator he would go to Deathgarden, would be a better fit there.
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@CyberianFaux said:
Update: This is an intentional feature with some finicky mechanics that is just occasionally breaking so I am remaking a post in bugs. When a pallet is spawned on a survivor inside of 1 meter of the fake pallet (asleep or awake) collision stays gone on the pallet until there is 0 players within 1 meter of the pallet as a way to keep the collision from trapping them. This is actually a clever design but I believe it occasionally bugs out, or people have found a way to make them all bug out, to allow you to tell the difference between real and fake pallets.
Glad it's not intentional because that would suck.
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Nurse add ons have needed a pass for some time. There is no reason for 5 blinks and omega blink to exist in the context of the game. I say this as a killer too, playing with them feels cheap- and not fun for either side. "All hex totem Prayer beads spirit" is fun even if it has limited counters, but Nurse is pure cheese. She should absolutley remain S tier though, and require a lot of time to git gud, as thats rewarding.
That and even if they get rid of Omega blink and 5 blink. (Which must be the intention, or nerf them severly) That does mean she gets 2 UR addons, I just hope they are fun, change her gameplay up a bit or let you make builds out of them, and don't have some stupid drawback that makes them a liability.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Prayer Beads change places with Mother Daughter Ring in terms of rarity or have their effect altered to play the phasing sound for all survivors whenever she phases, similar to Wraith's boneclapper.
As a Spirit main, I strongly disagree with removing collision when phasing at this time. I say that because survivor audio levels are not remotely consistent from survivor to survivor and map to map. Everyone has tier 1 and 2 Iron Will on Mt Ormond. Jake sounds like he's underwater in corn fields. Bill echoes badly on Autohaven. I could go on. Collision is the final confirmation when the audio is uncertain, but audio uncertainty isn't always a player skill thing.
Lets also not forget that from patch to patch there is every chance of survivor breathing/footsteps being silent or otherwise bugged again.
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The EGC changes didn't really bother me, I never played "Endgame pig" and although I get a lot of people did, it wouldn't have worked with the EGC and the EGC has been a big positive for the health of the game IMO, so I get it.
This though is just a bit sad, in that is a straight nerf. Again, I understand, Huntress hatchets don't work with One-shot perks, or other projectiles, but ambush isn't a projectile, there was no reason to do this.
I like playing with a variety of perk options, and if I am on a killer that dosn;t interact with that perk well, im not going to use that perk. (IE why would I use an insta-down perk on Billy/Myers/GF/Chainsaw killers etc, because you have that ability anyway, or that dosnt work with it such as Huntress.
That said, if this is really what you want to do, perhaps for some grand plan that will come into force at a later date, please give the Pig some love, the crouch time buff was pretty insignificant.
Plus her new cosmetics are beautiful.
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@ArecBalrin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/593033#Comment_593033
I understand the design was frustrating for survivors, but the frustration expressed by most killers concerned the fact that he was weak in a chase and specific clutch-moments for survivors; which is the same issue a lot of killers have. Those more general issues of course have not been addressed at all, only the ones specific to Freddy and in that sense, only the ones specific to survivors frustrations.
Killers no longer have to worry about not being able to hit a survivor while waiting for the debuff to apply; something the devs could have easily addressed by just allowing Freddy to hit anyway, as survivors can with pallets and flashlights. It didn't need a full character rework.
What did need a full rework is survivors no longer having to worry about their progress being stalled, not being able to see where Freddy is coming from as they now can from a huge distance of 16 metres(only twice the distance at which pallets can spawn together) and being visible to Freddy a lot of the time.
The only drawback for them with this rework is he now has viable chase utility, which still favours them because they prefer a playstyle of extended chases, stacked 2nd-chances and looping, which Freddy's original design was disruptive to because he worked best when stalling them. What is meant by 'frustrating' in terms of survivors is that their playstyle can still be used, but doesn't do them much good if gen progress is so slow. Now they don't have to worry about that and can play against Freddy as if he is just another killer.
This is why I really want an answer from the devs in the next stream. I last asked a question years ago and haven't since because they basically dodged giving a real answer(concerning population balance). My question now is about what this design is even about; is he meant to be a jack-of-all-trades or a specialist in something and if so, what?
I'm guessing he's now meant to be the former and the devs are relying on killer's to innovate what he is meant to be good at, but that's going to be hard with everything we do to innovate being nerfed or removed not long after.
I mean they took a Killer that was known for being gen-rushed out of existence and made him one of the best gen-defenders in the game.
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I'm not sure what exactly changed but snares feel easier to use in a chase now, they place correctly 95% of the time. (Which is a lot better than Hag/Trapper) And they feel snappy enough to pop in front of windows mid-loop.
Might be different after a few days as most survivors seem pretty brain-dead vs freddy rn.
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Old legion was awful to play against, new Legion just isn't fun or effective in the slightest. But at least hes a standard M1 killer.
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Because a well co-ordinated group can do gens and escape in less than 4 minutes, and the killer is expected to perform 12 hook actions in that time.
Thankfully you don't see 100% optimal survivor groups every game, but when something like that is possible, its a problem. There shouldn't be a possiblity of either side having 0 chance.
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BT is probably the best survivor perk right now. It already has very limited counters, the TR is one of the only ways to play around it.
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@DrDeepwound said:
If the rank 15 killer wasnt good it wouldnt be an issue, when a post is made complainig about a rank 15 killer who is p3 at rank 15 versing rank 20 survs, it wouldnt be because they werent good, it is because they are good that proves they know what they are doing and playing at a smurf account rank.
If you even play killer a little bit, you have to actually TRY to stay below rank 15 come on.
I have played DBd for over 2 years, with over 2k hours, I have done everything in the game from a killer side, been at Rank 1 for most of it. In the last 3 or 4 months I have played much less, I go on and play a game or two for dailies or to farm BP, im not playing enough to warrant it, but I still have 2k hours of experience. its a week after reset and I am still rank 13.
(It dosnt help that if you 4k in 3 minutes or people DC you saftey or even depip anyway.)
Its at a point where playing killer now is more just to mess around doing chainsaw only billy or meme builds than trying to win or pip anymore, I don't play enough to rank up because its not fun to wade through 10 ranks of potatoes to get to competitive games anymore. Id rather play survivor with my friends or other games.
(Although even at rank 13 I still see red rank survivors trying to boost thier buddies all the time, or 3 red ranks in with a rank 20)
And if being P3 is your defintion of skill theres somthing wrong, it takes about 2 days to p3 someone if you grind it out, thats no indicator of skill.
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I agree the experience for a new player must be awful, but it takes a long time to learn and git gud. Its not for everyone, but making the game easier for rank 20 survivors is not the way to go.
The grind is awful though, and I can imagine someone starting from scratch its a hell of an uphill battle. (Especially if you suck and only get 2-3k bps before dying.)
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A lot of people like to assume if they got outplayed then people are cheating, but unlike other games there arnt a lot of working cheats for Dbd, the standard FPS cheats like autoaim and the like don't work/have an effect on DBd, and I have never seen people writing custom hacks for it. The only cheating is lagswitching and even that is pretty rare. (99% of times its just the game lagging.)
Saying that its pretty easy on open maps to just zoom around with the saw and listenien for breathing, if you have enough hours you can hear breathing anytime you are within 8m or so even while sawing, and tiles are set up so that if you know someone was in an area, its no hard to see the most likley tree/rock/object they would hide from.
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See the biggest mistake here, aside from not mindgaming, holding W and generally letting Bill set the route of the chase. (No attempts to cut him off, loop him back around to spaces where hes used pallets etc.) Is at 1:41 you get the hit. You have been chasing for nearly 2 mins here for the first hit, leaving 3 survivors to just do gens in comfort, feeling pretty safe. This is where you should break off and try and put pressure on. The bill is injured, meaning he either needs to break to heal or he is very easy to hear.
The biggest difference between good and bad killers is knowing how to properly apply pressure and when to abandon a chase. If you swap targets it keeps everyone occupied, makes you unpredictable, and puts the pace of the game further in your hands. If you just follow every survivor you meet till they are downed, stuff like this will happen.
There is just so much value in pressure, its the only way to actually win unless survivors are actually braindead.
Saying that, and I mean this genuinley, don't sweat it, it takes a lot of hours to "get" red rank killer chases and how to play them without falling into this trap, hell my first 100 hours were just this most of the time, because playing against badly skilled survivors makes you think it works, when it really dosnt.
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Because the game has started to be balanced around decent survivor-level play, Red rank survivors arnt the ones complaining, the bad ones are.
If you are having a tough time playing survivor, perhaps try to get better? I don't even mean that in a condesceding way, the game takes a long time to learn and the mechanics actually fool you into thinking you are skilled, when you are not.
Most survivors are actually trash, you only need to play a few games of killer at rank reset or at anything below rank 5 to see this, taking stupid routes, using pallets early, making dumb saves or no saves at all, a bizare complete shutdown of any attempt to do gens with ruin.
This does 2 things, it pushes new survivor players to either play killer, or quit, killer is hard but if yuo are trying to farm bloodpoints even a bad game still gets you a good return, when if you are new/trash you are going to end most games with 3-5k points as survivor.
There really insnt a solution, the game used to be balanced around rank 20 survivors, and as a result the decent players could utterly dominate any killer they came across with near perfect results, it wasn't everyone, but the good players at Rank 1 set the standard for what the game should be, everyone else either needs to get to that level of skill, or whine and complain about it.
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I would love to find out via the archives that some of the Survivors are gay. (I mean, I have a feeling Dwight, Meg, Nea and Ace are all LGBT, but thats just my own projections.)
But as for a Drag killer or making it a central point of a character? Not so much. Give us pride cosmetics though please.
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One more, will the snares be large enough that you can completely block a path, or will you be able to run around them as with Trapper?
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With the cosmetics for Tapp, pig, etc, and grabbing Bruce Campbel for Ash's v/o. Please tell me someone has Robert Englund on the phone and its just a matter of time before we get the real Freddy.
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There are plenty of times I would like to play more survivor but because im grinding out a P3 or trying to get all perks on someone, I play killer probably 70/30 of the time. If survivors had a bit more BP I would probably play that role more, and anything that encourages players to play both sides is good.
People sticking to a main side without fully understanding the other is the cause of a lot of this games bullshit imo.
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I mean hold up, this is valid, but lets see how well not having a directional lullably seems first, because that is pretty huge.
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This was needed, Huntress has been shadow-nerfed in multiple patches, and was easy enough to dodge. Even against decent Huntresses, you get enough of a cue to make her getting a hit a 50/50 guessing game.
Huntress in anything less than a dedicated huntress-main was far too easy to bully around loops.
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But yet the majority of survivor players are Rank 15 potatos who can't hit skillchecks and don't understand the basics of looping or pallets, so apparently its unfair to balance around players who know what they are doing.
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@[Deleted User] said:
You mean like BBQ and Devour Hope?
To me survivors need a perk to punish camping better.
Like borrowed time?
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I think this is just one of those edge cases, the killer was being a dick, but its only 4 minutes and its not like the situation you describe is going to happen in even 1% of games. It sucks but whatevs its better than the old way.
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I wish people would realise that just saying "Buff this" or "Nerf this" without any solid reasoning shouldn't bother. If you think something needs to be changed, explain yourself.
Doctor is mid tier, and isnt that big a deal, but some aspects of his kit can be annoying, so by all means, lay out what you find frustrating or that has minimal counters, consider how games at non-potato ranks will be affected, and bear in mind that if Doc gets any of his kit changed, you would also need to buff other aspects of him to at least keep him where he is tier-wise.
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@Chaddad2169 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/555920#Comment_555920
Many people have told me this but what if the chances are that she is phasing and you run to the next loop. She'll see your scratch marks (and your injured audio if injured) and she'll just hit you again. But with all the tips people have been giving me this discussion, I did run a Spirit that was trying to mindgame for 3 gens, the best part was when she actually phased at a t wall and I vaulted the window only for her to hit the window after I was through. It felt so satisfying.
I can only say in my experience, as someone that mained Spirit for several months and still play her at red ranks, that actually phasing during a pallet standoff as the spitit is generally not a good idea, or at least, phasing to go around the other side of the pallet and get the hit, you are pretty much playing a 50/50 guessing game with the survivor and if it dosnt work your phasing is on cooldown. It pays to try the standing still mindgame more often than not because if they dont fall for it, you dont really lose anything as the killer, theres not as much risk compared to using the power.
Even at red ranks, months after shes come out, survivors will see spirit standing still at a pallet and just slow vault the pallet.
Stop doing this.
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I don't get this forum sometimes.
Is it asia-server folks and its just poor translation?
Is it children that post this stuff?
Are most people that play this game just actual morons?
Seems like every single day the posts get dumber and dumber.
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There is 100% one way to counter this mindgame, run to the next loop. If you think a Spirit is trying to cheese you into making a mistake, then use that time to get to a new pallet/twall/building.
Saying that the haunting mindgame as a killer, is probably one of the single most satisfying plays you can make when it works.
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This would solve so many problems, hookfarming is a real issue, and its primarily driven by both WGLF/Deliverance and just the fact that unhooks are worth so many points, in a game where survivors struggle to earn decent points, due to the nature of there only being so many actions that can occour, and its not enough for all 4 to get decent points, or very rarley.
Now this may be intended, to promote a somewhat valid, selfish playstyle but it would still be far better for players the way you described. The other major, major issue this would solve, is Q times and lobbies in general during events etc, giving survivors a bit more equity with killers for generating points. (Obviously you are never going to acciunt for just dying instantly and getting nothing, but in general) And people would play more survivor during events, I know that if im trying to grind out a prestige or want to get a good return out of the bloodpoint events, im going to try and play killer 90% of the time unless its just with friends, there is no incentive to play solo-q survivor during these times.
I say this as probably 60/40 slanted towards killer in 1700 hours, so objectivley, this is fair and would make sense as a buff.
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Been this way forever, will never change.
The problem is that the devs used to listen to them, at least now they seem better. (a bit. jk love you BhVR.)
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In order to balance things all killers have the same lunge, GF having a short knife can make this look weird, because it has the same range as Trappers machete, Wraiths bing-bong axe or billys mallet. Its the same.
The game dosn't code an actual hitbox for the weapon, there is a box in front of the killer, when you attack anyone in that box registers a hit, and the game then tries to line up the animations, in a game of chases, where there is always a set time that a killer can catch up and get within range of a survivor, it has to be this way, can't be any different without completly reworking the entire chase mechanics. Hopefully dedicated servers should solve a lot of this.
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The nature of the game means that overpowered survivor perks have a much bigger impact than killer ones. (Not that noed is that overpowered, it can be cleansed and relies on the killer basically losing the game by letting all gens go before it even works.)
When you can stack a perk 3 or 4 times ot becomes much much worse, old ds and mom went too bad, even old brand new part, but taking 3 or 4 of them quickly becomes oppressive.
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You know absolutely none of this matters, he could have perma-exposed and he is still an m1 killer, with a fancy gimmick of removing red stain. He has a harsh cooldown too. Hes strong, probably stronger than Mickey. (Who exposes the whole team, btw, and can do it for the entire game with a tuft. When you think about it, as long as tuft of hair exists, the fact that you have any way of stopping the expose at all is enough. If you get exposed... just hide/run awaay/loop him. Its not like Legion, who can vault pallets and dog someone across the map to get a down, GF is vulnerable to the same things that almost every other killer is.
He still has 0 map control, and hes fun, but in no way opressive. The onlypeople whining are those that can't loop or do anything in chases.
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There isnt much else you can do tbh, we have plenty of perks on both sides that either discourage camping, require the killer to be a distance from the hook to activate or encourage hooking all 4 survivors in a game, borrowed time etc to try and play around a camper.
If you start inteoducing harsher penaltys it will only affect the killers that dont try and camp and tunnel as a sole playstyle, and just hurt those who sometimes in a game might need to be near a hook. Killers who camp already get hardly any points, get genrushed and derank. What else can you do that wouldnt break the game in terms of balance.
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Are there any plans to adjust the chase music for killers, I get it's more tied to balance than survivors but I really would love to play killer without doing permanent damage to my ears.
Also please ignore the screeching about GF nerfs, the changes are so minor and anyone who actually plays him shouldn't be worried, he will still be in a decent spot.
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Can we get this on killers please, not as quiet but would be nice to have working ear drums again.
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Its probably going to contribute to killer ques to, along with GF, playing survivor (at least for the 2 days of 2 x bloodpoints.) Isnt worth it, but killer ques are 25 mins.
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I hope they increase the number for survivors, might improve killer ques (Which are always bad during events, doing it with a new killer out is going to painful next few days, I pretty have to forget about playing killer while 2 x bp and this is on, im waiting about 20 min for game.) And in the few killer games I did manage to get into, im lucky to get 1 extra gateau on top of mine.
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I think most of your points are valid, but its easy to get distracted when you say Clown is the worst killer, when its clearly not true.
Trapper, LF and current Freddy are all far below him, and he sits roughly in low A high B tier, hes very much average in terms of power level compared to other killers.
The point about his slow is true, and without bleach you do rely on survivors avoiding the gas or otherwise using the bottles to cause them to make a mistake, but then thats no different to trapper, or hag to some degree.
Having a killer being reliant on 1 addon to make them decent isnt ideal, but its no different to many other killers.
So yes, Clown could use a few tweaks, and could be buffed without troubling the top 3 easily, but hes by no means the worst killer in the game.
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Didnt the patchnotes say it was only survivor chase music? I too played 2 games with GF and then uninstalled ptb.
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It works both ways, get good, then either wait till reset or take a break so you come back at R15 and bully everyone.