Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542502#Comment_3542502
You can't just Mori people from the start. That's literally the entire point.
You need to fully stalk THREE people, iirc. Considering how frustrating it can be to get a normal Tier III, that's a tall order.
your associating judith tombstone with tuft of hair when you do not need use tuft of hair to use said mori. the strength in myer's mori is 99% EV. the only real difference between judith tombstone and purple tombstone is one of them allow you to chain moris while other only allows you to mori a single survivor. Chaining-mori is impractical because counter-play of jumping into a locker is so striaght forward that your unlikely to get 2 mori's back to back with judith tombstone. that is why nobody really uses judith tombstone. the double iri add-on is mostly achievement add-on.
@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542499#Comment_3542499
I mean it is more balanced than Tombstone piece however still the fact you can Mori people from the start is just overpowered. You can also remove the downside with PWYF stacks and still move faster than 115% Killers.
myer's just somewhat relies on that type mori gameplay to be relevant in the game.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542501#Comment_3542501
Hens once said something along the lines that old slinger was free to get hits and now you need to put some effort in, I think that is fair and I still would not call it easy slinger, he can still hit you at the vast majority of tiles if he is good enough.
old slinger was more on survivor to outplay the killer. new slinger is more on survivor to make a series mistake in chase rather killer having any input in outcome on the match. he can still hit you at the vast majority of the tiles if you make poor plays.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542455#Comment_3542455
You do realize the bots dodge range shots because they have 0 reaction time right? Just like they can see you through walls... So maybe don't take them as an example...
i am saying you can side-step slinger harpoon gun on reaction if you far away enough from him. the bots can do it on any range. The human player has to manipulate distances and use line of sight to outplay old slinger. It is sophisticated counter-play. don't worry, you don't have to do anything of that. you can just play vs easy mode slinger.
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@radiantHero23 said:
Im looking forward to interrupt survivors searching boxes with ultimate weapon on Pig....
Fun....
what do you think i am playing? they might nerf pig again.
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@OneAutmLeaf said:
I mean this change wouldnt affect that kinda of a build if anything it would actually make it better.... as it is by itself the perk is garbage 20meters is super small smaller then your Terror Radius which is 30 I mean starstruck works off your terror radius why dosent Awakened Awarness, there should be 0 reason it needs to be such a small radius for a aura on picking up when most aura perks are either map wide or like nowhere to hide which is 24 meters on every gen hit..
i think it is better to increase flat radius to 32 meters and put back 2 second linger on it. the perk is alright with BBQ because you can find people near you as carry people near hook and bbq does everything past that distance but it is kinda wasted perk slot.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542306#Comment_3542306
The problem with old Slinger was that he could repeatedly zoom in and out at a split second without any downsides, leading the majority of Slinger players to use & abuse that method during chases and as a result, Survivors would be locked into a lose-lose situation no matter what.
The typical scenarios goes like this: Slinger would zoom for a split second during chase and the following would usually play out as a result.
- The Survivor don't zigzag and gets hit from a shot.
- The Survivor does zigzag and as a result, loses some distance on the killer, Slinger would then repeat the process of baiting his shots until either
- A. Has caused the Survivor to lose so much distance from zigzagging that Slinger gets a basic attack hit
or
- B. They force the Survivor to vault and get hit from a shot there because they've been forced into doing so as they can't do anything else to escape Slinger.
Xeno does not come even remotely close to Old Slinger at all because unlike Old Slinger, Xeno cannot bait it's shots constantly like Old Slinger did which is the main important difference between the two, hitting over vaults and pallets is not any different from any other range killer, who also can't bait their shots either as easily as Old Slinger could or force Survivors into a lose-lose situation during chase the same way Old Slinger did so easily.
Also old Slinger was not that hard to master, i know because i used to main him and i also know how annoying he was to face for Survivors as back before his nerf, his split second quickscope was a frequent topic of discussion on the forum. You could not go a day without someone making a complaint thread about it, those complaints threads continued all the way right up until his nerf.
He may not have been Nurse levels of broken, but he was without a doubt overtuned and unfun to face for alot of people.
you were not locked into lose/lose situation. you put yourself in a lose/lose situation by over-respecting shots that did not need to be respected.
the deathslinger harpoon has small hitbox and a travel time before it reaches you as survivor. you were suppose to be doing a single wiggle to left or right similar to how AI plays vs ranged killers. there is no reason to wiggle between 14-18 meters of the shot at all because shot is possible to react to. When slinger approaches 9-13 meters, it becomes much harder to react to side-step his shot however he is 110% m/s so your suppose to very far ahead of the slinger. In cases where you are not, you should be using obstacles as walls to avoid wiggling to lose distance. eventually when you pass a certain tile-set corner or approach a pallet, this is where you should consider wiggling and baitshots because old deathslinger will try to take shots as you approach line of sight blocker.
in certain instances where deathslinger has clear line of sight, wiggling was tactically a good idea because if pallet is say 5 meters away from you but deathslinger is 13-14 meters away from you, you could wiggle in unpredictable pattern while approaching the pallet linearly to make shot more difficult for slinger. you lose distance for wiggling but due to proximity of the pallet, the distance loss will not matter once you reach the pallet.
@SimpleTora post is talking about xeno's tail strike has similar mind game potencial at dropped pallet as old quick scope deathslinger had. that is why he is questioning current slinger with current xeno runner mode at loops. due to perception you explained in your post, the deathslinger remains have long wind-up because survivor did not play correctly to counter the hold-w elements of deathslinger between loops. with xeno, the mind games are only at pallets as xeno tail strike is only 4.8 meters. not 18 meters like the slinger. Old deathslinger had greater depth in looping for survivor.
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@Venusa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541984#Comment_3541984
Removing hiding from a game whose foundation was built on hide and seek and saying it harms the game... That is kind of out of touch. It's suppose to be a horror game. Not everybody wants to be a 5 gen looping e-sports legend. Nor do they have the time to.
it is not like that anymore. if you want stealth in the game as survivor, you can run anti-detection perks for your stealth fantasy. The game has moved on to be more scooby doo chase game. they more likely to keep ultimate weapon for how it is.
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@Xernoton said:
The idea isn't so terrible but constant aura vision in the boon is too much. It makes mindgaming completely impossible and the 2% speed penalty will amplify that further. So the killer is forced to snuff the boon every time. The problem here is that the boon can be reset an infinite number of times (let's be honest, nobody runs Shattered Hope) and the killer won't always know where it is.
Also: second floor boons. 💀
laughs at wiretap perk.
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@Venusa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541938#Comment_3541938
Why should I run any other tracking perk instead of Ultimate Weapon now though? It does everything and better.
+can trigger it quickly with a locker don't have to accomplish anything
+the perk follows your radius around and keeps applying
+activation window is so long you almost always get all 4 survivors to scream
+applies blindness for a long time which counters perks like woo/bond
+works even if survivor is hiding in a locker which is very inconsistent with other perk designs
+it's too oppressive on killers like nurse who can just teleport to a location
+it completely eliminates the stealth playstyle since killer can find out where you are whenever they please
+"bring calm spirit" isn't a valid argument dbd isn't a counterpick card game
+cooldown is irrelevantly low so it usually leads to slugfests
+distortion doesn't counter it
+its like playing doctor without actually having to play doctor
+"bring calm spirit" isn't a valid argument dbd isn't a counterpick card game
But at that point, you don't really care about the perk, right? With most perks in the game, your suppose endure their negatives of the other side. The negatives of other side are positives of the killer.
+cooldown is irrelevantly low so it usually leads to slugfests
that is a bit extreme. the act of putting multiple survivors on the floor is consequence of not using resources on the map properly to loop the killer.
one aspect that I find funny about the perk is that it makes my end games as killer a lot less tedious. Like I am not normally a killer that slug for 4k or anything but the perk almost does that tedious job for me without really aiming for that 4k. my thought on the perk is that dev are experimenting with tolerance level of strength of tracking perks. The dev could definitely weaken the perk activation duration from 30 second to a much lower value like 6 seconds. My guess to why the perk lasts for so long is that dev at some point got accused of balancing perks around stronger killers so they just put high activation time so every killer gains tracking perk value equally from Ultimate Weapon.
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@UndeddJester said:
Another potential change might be it only remains active until a survivor screams.
You open a locker and anyone in your terror radius will get hit and then the perk deactivates... but if not it follows you until it hits the first survivor who screams, then deactivates.
Does it cause survivors that are on hook to scream? I think it does, but not paid enough attention because I've been focusing on finding others. If it does, that actually solves a lot of the perks problems.
i think the perk is released like this because of anti-camping measures. The perk is definitely strong tracking tool as it allows you to locate all 4 survivors by walking around but i am not entirely sure if tracking is can ever be considered unfair.
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@Xendritch said:
I'm fine if they thought 2.0 was too much but I'm less fine we didn't test 1.5/1.6 first. I don't know why BHVR is so against incrementalism when it comes to balancing. Everything is either gigabuffed or gets a hammer taken to it.
You pretty much only take the safe shots now and being forced to DS yourself to deal with turrets feels awful. I don't think Xeno is gutted by any means but they're absolutely back to being B tier and they definitely don't feel good to play anymore.
I'm kinda at the point where I'm very doubtful we ever see another A tier killer released which is a bit depressing but it is what it is I guess. Time for the community to go back to Wesker by Daylight.
You pretty much only take the safe shots now and being forced to DS yourself to deal with turrets feels awful.
it was like that in the PTB. survivor said turrets are ineffective. now they're very effective as passive health-states that never end. you just have to accept the turret type drawback aspect of the power. just another annoying aspect to deal with as killer.
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@Alther_Primus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541347#Comment_3541347
I'd rather she retain some relevancy as a 3-gen gamer than be condemned to be Trapper tier or worse.
well she was trapper tier or worse in ptb but she was also a 3 gen character as well. they improved her chase but her identity of being 3 gen character is still there. I don't have any particular high hopes for whatever they do change about her.
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oh yes... legion old feral frenzy. a timeless post.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541826#Comment_3541826
Nemmis addons need a full rework. They all center around zombies. Which can be totally useless during a match.
i agree in regards zombies. they need more potency because I barely consider them a threat.
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@Gandor said:
yes please. It feels terrible falling for this as survivor and quite cheap if I play killer and someone goes locker instead of window.
what about dredge? his nightfall ability is all about using locker's? locker are pretty good next to loops because they give opportunity to use deception perk but issue is that deception is kinda weak perk that nobody uses and that perk desperately needs buffs.
the locker and vault problem is likely a problem with hotkeys. going into a locker and vaulting being same key interaction can cause some unintended misplays on survivor end. one locker that made me once make that mistake is locker on RPD 2nd floor room that has those two pallets.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541329#Comment_3541329
That isn´t really hard...
this comment made me laugh. I do wish some of his add-on were tiny bit more effective like that perker's handband but xeno is decent.
@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541377#Comment_3541377
It's actually hard to hit over obstacles with huntress. She has no lingering hitbox to adjust her throws. Hatchets have speed - which is quite low if you throw them right as u can. She provides strong cues before she can use her ability, or is reaaaaly slow when she holds it. She needs to reload while Xeno don't. Also huntress is 110% killer.
So overall Huntress feels fair - u can't just always get hit, just because. Xeno on the other hand felt like pure BS. Sure he had to close gap before he could injure (unlike huntress), but once he closed it you just had to lucky-guess or hope xeno is bad. That felt like total BS unlike huntress
your last bit in regards to outplaying tail whip is somewhat skill issue on survivor.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541064#Comment_3541064
I would agree, if Bloodlust would not exist. So even if the Survivor plays better, they will lose.
I do agree with that.
@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541561#Comment_3541561
It's possible with and without bloodlust though.
You know the pallet is unsafe so why try to overplay your hand rather than move on to a safer loop and force the killer into a situation where they have to reset their bloodlust? You have plenty of ways to play around the mechanic and the game is literally balanced around the fact the mechanic exists.
People do all the time, if you're getting bloodlusted at unsafe loops that's a skill issue on your part. Don't greed that loop, just predrop and chain into the next tile.
just predrop and chain into the next tile.
survivor cannot transition to the next tile with the bonus speed. you get hit before you get to the next loop. the survivor is not greeding the loop. the killer is purposely not breaking the pallet because they know they're confident that they are going to get the hit. when the pallet is overly safe, the killer will not use bloodlust because... safe loops make bloodlust ineffective.
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@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540835#Comment_3540835
Knight needs opposite types of buffs. he needs guards to get hits on their own when he successful predicts the survivor movement in green orb form. with higher m/s on carnifex and dried horse meat, both these guards would be effective at creating risk for hold-w for survivor while jailer would still specialize in that pincer-attack play-style. current knight base-kit promotes using all 3 guards in exact same jailer way.
I understand the buff for this type of gameplay, but the Knight would become the most hated killer in our communitty, as many would use him to play like a Skull Merchant: Stand on a trigen, hurt survivors from afar and stop the game progress. Also, Behaviour also pointed out that the Knight's guards, by THEIR DESIGN, are not made to get hits without the help of the Knight himself. So, i think the probablity of them buffing the guards to the point that they can hit a survivor alone is minimal.
I don't see how a chase killer standing in a 3 gen on knight is any different from any other chase killer standing in a 3 gen. that sounds like an excuse to not buff the killer.
Also, Behaviour also pointed out that the Knight's guards, by THEIR DESIGN, are not made to get hits without the help of the Knight himself
in that sense, knight's already perfect in that design aspect but his power-level will remain gated until that design is altered.
So, i think the probablity of them buffing the guards to the point that they can hit a survivor alone is minimal.
assassin can downs people with dried horse meat in some instances. it is only carnifex that fails achieve same goal. the jailer has that 2 vs 1 drop guard at loop design and do pincer attack design that you label as "Knight is boring to face" in your initial post. 2vs1 is part of game design at loops for knight. The issue is that being primary design and not secondary design makes him have a lot more weaknesses than he should have. his primary design should be long-range guard spawn patrols and his secondary design should be that 2vs1 gameplay which survivor will dislike due to the binary "you get hit here" gameplay.
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@Steakdabait said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540875#Comment_3540875
It's boring that's the whole point of why people are complaining about xeno. Xeno's power forces you to play in the most lame way as survivor, any killer that does that will be hated.
playing dropped pallets where killer has opportunity to hit the survivor and you have opportunity to outsmart killer is some the most interesting gameplay. what kind of gameplay are you looking for? pallet break and singularity EMP spam simulator? skull merchant 3 gen simulator?
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@WaveyTrey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540092#Comment_3540092
Demo Whistle is fun, but players can always destroy your portals if you’re forced to use it to reach the cleansing on time. Meaning you constantly have to walk over to place them again in case the totem is far from other objectives. In which survivors run away all the time. You also need the add on to make this build work.
I main doctor before, but took a break because I used him so darn much. Impossible Doctor is hilarious, but again. Survivors can reset, and keep trying. It often takes 2 health states to down. Which requires some time to manage. Especially with MFT giving players haste. Doctor isn’t any faster, nor can apply pressure directly on generators while checking his totems.
With Skull healthy players get exposed for standing in the drone too long. Exposed means they’re on the objective for 10 seconds minimum. It cuts chase time of a healthy player in half. If they hack your drone you’re faster. If they have MFT you’re evenly matched. Pallets they drop will break if they’re clawed. So they can’t even loop as long. If they’re doing a gen you simply place the third drone on it after you kick it. Constant pressure on the objectives, and any survivor that hacks her drones. All across the map. All of this is base kit. No special add ons required.
that is why people double portal with lifeguard whistle on devour hope. the idea is that you have 1 portal on totem and 1 portal that is closed.
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@XshyguyX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540567#Comment_3540567
Thanks. So I basically have to camp hooks near gens to pull this off bc most emp boxes are near gens?
I'll give it a try. Appreciate it
ns, you need find the emp boxes and slug(leave survivors on the floor) people near emp boxes. in normal gameplay, your expected to infect survivors every chance you get but with this challenge, your better off not using your power, keeping everyone not infected then downing survivor by m1. after that, you pick them up then dropping them near EMP box. when another survivor picks slug up, you go into camera and infect the survivor.
infect survivor 3 times near emp crates and you get challenge done. this challenge is more tutorial on how to play singularity in regards to making survivor waste EMP through slugging but barely anyone has much interest in learning him.
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@Steakdabait said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540751#Comment_3540751
Just let me spend 30+ seconds of time setting up a web of flame turrets so that there's literally anything you can do vs xeno in chase other than omega comp drop and hold W
pre-drop pallets is smart survivor play. hold-w is just also part of playing survivor well. the pallet are not useless. they're mindgame tools instead safe-zones. xeno is how every m1 killer should be.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540841#Comment_3540841
And in the same token you're also not entitled to fully delete an entire killer's build / Perks, so where do we stand?
Obviously the only viable solution is to split the difference and go with my original suggestion, Token based perks and tokens only regen either in chase or out of chase inside the TR.
Survivors get value from their perks, killer gets value out of his perks.
yes they are if your entire build consist on tracking perks and nothing else. you put all your egg in one basket. there is nothing to change, you have to learn to play killer without tracking perks.
in some sense, survivors are countering your crutch tracking perks if you cannot win without them.
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@appleas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540851#Comment_3540851
If one person came to unhook, that person would probably go down before they completed the unhook action thanks to STBFL. If two people came to unhook, even if A took the first hit and B took the second hit while A unhooked, there is a likelihood that A or B will still go down unless the unhooked Survivor manages to tank the third hit with BT base kit.
It still comes back to the mentality that Survivors should get to unhook in front of the Killer and everyone should still manage to escape without repercussions which is why hook grabs got removed in the first place. Even if STBFL got nerfed to not work near hooks but a new Killer perk that could reduce unhook speed was released, people would still call for said perk to be nerfed.
not if you time hit with unhook. that exactly how you save people from hook when playing end game collapse.
It still comes back to the mentality that Survivors should get to unhook in front of the Killer and everyone should still manage to escape without repercussions which is why hook grabs got removed in the first place.
grabs got removed because they entirely prevent 1 person from ever saving the unhook during mid-game. the killer in 1vs1 had zero obligations hit survivor. they could just constantly wait until survivor over-commits to unhooking then grab them and slug them. basically face-camping in a nutshell. you never needed stbfl to camp. with removal of hook grabs, you can brute force hook trade on most regular m1 killers regardless of stbfl stacks.
you can prevent unhooks using instant down killers but after their camping measures come into place. you won't be able stand near hook with instant downs because 16 meter restriction. if you do, the survivor will unhook themselves at 59 seconds of first or 2nd hook stage where they get endurence for 10 seconds and 10% haste for 10 seconds. I mean you can still like proxy camp -> tunnel people off hooks but you won't get any automatic regression type rewards by that method. by standing so far away from hook, the survivor has opportunity to stealth near hook and unhook before you can instant down them. in other words, they mostly get unhook every time.
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@Pulsar said:
I've always said I thought it should go back to how it was before 6.1.0.
Ie, make the maximum stacks be 6 instead of 8
why? have you ever consider this 1000 iq strategy at hooks.
step 1 - take a hit near a hook.
step 2 - get your teammate to unhook while killer is in hit recovery
step 3 - you successfully unhooked someone. a cookie for you.
-- they used to have a perk in the ptb called background player where when you unhook someone, you break into a sprint for 6 second for 150% m/s but people said it encouraged tunneling. so they removed it. that perk would be good for vs proxy campers.
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@WilliamSN said:
I've already mentioned it in a similar thread, but here it goes.
Perks being able to essentially delete another players build is fundamentally unhealthy.
If you bring distortion you're able to just fully delete Lethal and BBQ, and mitigate every other aura perk unless the killer brings a 4th perk or addon dedicated to token burning like Gearhead , Plague's iri addon, Tricksters purple addon, etc etc.
Calm spirit is even worse because theres absolutely no tokens to burn trough and you get get your scream perk / Build fully deleted the entire game rendering you perkless.
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The only solution to this would be to make them both token based, BUT the only way to get tokens is to either be *IN chase* OR only when you're in the TR but *OUT of chase* that way survivors would still get the effects a good portion of the time and killer also gets to use his perks a good portion of time.
killer also gets to use his perks a good portion of time.
killer get to use the perk a good portion of the time = ineffective perk. the perk are not doing what you expect them to be countering. there is no point in using the perk if your not protected from very things that your equipping the perk in the first place.
your not entitled to get 100% value on every single time the perk triggers, sometimes survivor gets to counter your perk and your forced to try to win without that perk.
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@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539930#Comment_3539930
Without map of the realm. i would agree. with map of the realm, Knight goes from like 2/10 killer to like 4/10 killer. With dried horse meat or call to arm, Knight is like 4.5 roughly
I think the Knight can be considered a 4/10 without map of the realm, and a 6.5/10 with it.
3 gen for knight is effective strategy with perks. It is boring but it does work. You need to use his iri add-on called knight contract with 3 gen kick perks. Previously old ones were like cob+overcharge and eruption+pwyf.
I've face this strat many times, and the Knight lost. TBH, i think 3gen Knight is annoying as hell, but not strong (different from the Skull Merchant). I've tested this strat sometimes and although i didn't lost, i only won because survivor were bad and uncoordinated (one survivor fell down to a Jailer).
Knight does not need pwyf to anti-loop. As I said in my previous post, Knight is a corner killer. He gets hits in the corner of the map where he is able pincer survivors with his guards because survivor has no pallet loops to transition to. They either get hit by guard or by your m1. In the center of the map, he is weak because you can transition between pallet loops and stay in the center until knight breaks all pallets in the center. This in turn gives him a bad early game. He gets free hits mid-late game portion of the game because none of pallet resources or window resources end up working against him when he uses his power to effectively zone
That why i'm asking for a for a haste buff for the Knight -> He wouldn't be a "corner killer" but a strong anti-loop killer, even in the early match.
The knight with Assassin guard and Dried horse meat add-on can do a full patrol path. If he lands the guard chase, the assassin has mostly the statistic's to get the hit onto the survivor.
A good survivor will jump a window or drop a pallet as the guard gets close, or even do a 180 move around an obstacle and get the banner, even against the assassin.
I wont quote everything, but:
I think Knight should have a restriction on how short his patrols can be (in exchange for some HEAVY BUFFS in his kit), so he would not put survivors into a lose-lose situation in corner (but a good Knight player could still get a hit if plans properly).
- I don't think guards should get easy hits by themselves, as it would make the Knight a worse Skull Merchant in holding gens and the game hostage, or even camping. Although i like the idea of a Knight playing like a Summoner, i think most of his gameplay would be toward holding the game until everyone is dead. I think the way to buff Knight is leaving the guards a little bit strong, but making Knight a very strong M1 killer while his guards are in a hunt. Most of his problems would be solved this way.
I think the way to buff Knight is leaving the guards a little bit strong, but making Knight a very strong M1 killer while his guards are in a hunt. Most of his problems would be solved this way.
The knight is already at his strongest when he has guard chasing you. It puts pressure on the survivor to move away from loops. The problem is that when your in the center of the map, moving away from loops is too easy because there a lot of pallets that survivors can go to outrun both knight and guard at same time when running in a straight line. That is what hold-w counter is referring to in your initial post.
he would not put survivors into a lose-lose situation in corner (but a good Knight player could still get a hit if plans properly).
The knight get hits when survivor cannot transition between loops and knight can pincer attack the survivor. He already has strong anti-loop. It is that his anti-loop is entirely avoidable if there are loops for survivor to transition. The places where it is unavoidable is where knight shines. These places are in the corner of the map. This is why you can avoid the corner of the maps vs knight and you path in a way that makes it as difficult as possible for knight to do pincer attack. This is how you loop knight and how you waste knight's time in the chase. Giving knight 5% haste makes him better at cutting people off at loops in the corner of the map in which he already excel at. he does not need help at that. adding 10 meter restriction will not change his strength in the corner of the map because he can preemptively use his power as survivor is reaching the corner of the map. he still get same zoning hits. As survivor, only way to outplay his zoning is to avoid the corner of the map. by the time, he becomes not loopable, you should finish 4/5 or all generators. 10 meter restriction would make more clunky to play without changing much about this strength.
Knight needs opposite types of buffs. he needs guards to get hits on their own when he successful predicts the survivor movement in green orb form. with higher m/s on carnifex and dried horse meat, both these guards would be effective at creating risk for hold-w for survivor while jailer would still specialize in that pincer-attack play-style. current knight base-kit promotes using all 3 guards in exact same jailer way.
A good survivor will loop the guard while waiting for the banner to be available
You can camp the banner as the knight. As long your closer to the proximity of the banner then survivor then you can m1 them before they get to the banner. When you m1 a survivor, you cancel the guard chase which makes banner disappear. The grabbing banner for survivor is generally only effective when knight is not chasing you with the guard.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540180#Comment_3540180
Ah yes , guess i should look into the future see the endgame screen take note of what counter perk the survivors are running and counter the counter perk before the game starts.
Totally doable , not having premonitions is a skill issue /s
survivor don't know killer perk either.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540139#Comment_3540139
Come on man, you gotta stop being disingenuous.
Nobody is going to double stack distortion and CS.
It's either one or the other depending on the current "meta".
Swapping out adrenaline for CS or distortion is by all metrics a massive benefit for the survivor.
Adrenaline does feel like the survivors NOED, but atleast it only procs once when all the gens pop, meanwhile distortion and CS provide permanent value throughout the match and essentially turn off a killers perks and power for free.
It's either one or the other depending on the current "meta".
if it is not both, you can use aura perk vs calm spirit users and ultimate weapon vs distortion users.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540133#Comment_3540133
I disagree. It's not really 3genning when you make the choice to give up a gen in far away area with lots of pallets and safe tiles around it. On most maps there is at least 1 gen that I won't even try to defend. It's not quite the same as 3 genning when you ignore the existence of Badham's house of pain or Dead Dawg's main building.
I was a bit exaggerating earlier. Obviously you can hardly ignore half the map without 3 genning but giving up a shack gen and not chasing there because it takes too long works without doubling down on a 3gen. And since chances are you are going to lose at least 1 gen for your fist chase anyway, then you don't really have any reason to go there.
i would not call that being territorial. your not really controlling an area with that. i would call that time management on killer? something like that. your avoiding bad chases for potencial better chases from your point of view.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540002#Comment_3540002
This is a blatantly disingenuous argument.
CS is being used now to counter the usage of UW and other screaming build/synergies with it.
CS provides you INFINITE deletion to ATLEAST 25% of a killers build , if the killer is running a DMS/UW combo you counter 50% of his entire build for free permanently.
If doctor one day becomes a super high pickrate , CS would full hard counter doctors power and its synergies.
Distortion is also a full hard counter to aura builds and perks, and the easiness of token regen also lets it stay up for the entire match.
Survivors just end up giving up the "extra" chase perk in their build for an extremely unhealthy hard counter like CS/Distortion.
You end up seeing builds that consist of WOO+MFT+Resi+CS/Distortion
Effectively giving up nothing of their own core build to hard counter a killers entire aura/scream builds and perks, you can't pass this off as balanced in any way shape or form, it's an extremely unhealthy perk design at its core.
they are giving up something, they're giving up a different perk that might provide different value. example, if their build was WoO+MFT+Resi+Hope. Their build changing to WOO+MFT+Calm spirit+Distoration is giving up Hope and & Resilience.
If anything, you might be gaining value as killer because your facing weaker perks because your perk is gating their load out.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540122#Comment_3540122
Oh darn. I forgot to mention you can also run around his snares and avoid them. Which in larger loops costs you less distance than the hindered effect.
Actually give me a few hours and I can probably come up with a few more counters to him. Like self-care. Which basically allows you to wake yourself up anytime you're injured without having to leave your favority loop.
But I agree that pallet camping is way too effective for how easy it is. I've found that this is mostly due to the abundance of pallets on most maps, which forces many killers to play more territorial. Not necessarily playing for a 3gen but if you can ignore 1 half of the map it's a lot easier and more manageable to deal with this.
i would say it is length of loops. they're too safe. In my opinion, playing territorial == 3 gen. it is just another fancy word for camping.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540095#Comment_3540095
Makes sense. After all, a weaker, more limited and easily counterable version of Clown's bottles is pretty busted.
Seriously, it makes no sense how hard Freddy is countered by basically anything.
Healing: Forces him to hit you twice. When he already struggles to get the first hit.
Staying injured: Allows you to do gens instead of healing. And there is always MFT. Anyway, he is going to have a hard time to keep up with you.
Alarm Clocks: Literally removes his entire power in chase and slows the cooldown of his teleport. Also makes you immune to falling asleep for 30 seconds.
Wake-up Action: No need to run to the nearest Alarm Clock. Just find another survivor that is not asleep and have them wake you up to remove his anti-loop and slow the recovery of his teleport.
Missing a skill check: Instantly wakes you up. At the cost of -10% progress on whatever action you were performing and a loud noise notification. But also counters Freddy's power completely.
Predropping: He doesn't deal particularly well with predropped pallets. Just look at Clown without his yellow bottle for comparison. So he will have to break. He also has no way to speed himself up or slow you down to catch up after.
Pallet camping: Nothing he can really do against it. Other than hoping you are so bad that you can't even drop a pallet.
Shift + W: What is he gonna do? Teleport in front of you? You can see the charge and it only works on gens.
Actual looping: If you are awake, then he has no power. If you are asleep, then you'll only make it around the pallet once before you need to drop it.
Gen rush: Completely counters every part of his kit, since it is mostly paired with Adrenaline. No mobility because he can't teleport to finished gens and no anti-loop because you are awake.
Exhaustion perks: End many of his chases instantly because he has neither the power nor the time to catch up to you and engage in a chase that will take him forever anyway.
Synergy with perks: Freddy is not allowed to have synergy with perks other than Pop. Spirit Fury and Hubris no longer work with his dream pallets.
Getting hooked: Wakes you up. I mean, I get it you are literally hanging from a meat hook but why exactly does he counter himself by doing his objective?
Dying: You're dead. Too bad. But at least you can't fall asleep anymore, which would decrease his teleport's cooldown. Not really a counter in that sense but still funny that there is actually a detriment for Freddy killing someone.
It's only natural that he starts the match completely without any power as well. Now that I see this list, I feel a bit depressed. There is only 1 thing left to say:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/9MGJW92C7DQW/aan6bp3id1j01.jpg
oh yeah for sure. i agree with all of that. pallet camping in particular is really bad weakness in the game. it is the bane of most basic m1 killers. in particular, it counters clown's and freddy power but many survivor do not abuse safe pallets correctly. there is coup the grace that mildly tries to make this less effective of strategy but lunges are still relatively easy to react due to travel time.
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@Mr_K said:
Yeah but Freddy's addons were constaintly getting nerfed. Unless, you are wanting Blights addons nerfed and just using Freddy as the hammer.
freddy only had two good add-on, swing chains and jump rope, -action speed add-on. they got nerfed, rest of freddy add-on were always terrible and nothing really changed for 2+ years.
@Xernoton said:
Honestly, I don't even know why the Paintbrush exists in this way. Are we really that affraid of Freddy actually having a power?
This addon would be pretty damn oppressive on Blight. Oh, wait.... Blight does have his power from the get go.
probably because they thought his snare anti-loop was oppressive. that is why they changed snares. I guess?
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@Crowman said:
I don't think the devs can just prevent chests from spawning flashlights without a patch. They should killswitch coins as to prevent extra chest spawns.
haddies residual manifest perk gives free flashlight when opening a chest.
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that add-on they nerfed when they changed slinger. it used to give you 32 meters of wall-hack a long time ago.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540070#Comment_3540070
Again, if it IS then that's a bug still that they need to address. A Jigsaw box is not "healing or repairing" therefore it should not be affected. While it is two separate sentences, that's just the way it's worded so as to not make it longer or clunky.
Yes, I am aware of the irony that I, as a Pig main, am asking them to Nerf the Pig, but a bug is a bug.
i am just saying it is not bug. it is meme build you can do in gideon's map as pig with those weird skill-check jigsaw box add-on. i have not played pig with that build for very long time. only skill-check it does not affect is decisive strike. it used to do that but it got changed at some point. I do not remember when.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540038#Comment_3540038
Unneerving Presence doesn't either, or shouldn't. If it does, then its' a bug. No perks are supposed to affect a killer's power directly, only their addons.
no it is not bug. it also affect doctor's snap out. you can read description. the description is
"Survivors within your Terror Radius have a 10% greater chance of triggering Skill Checks when repairing or healing. Triggered Skill Checks' success zones are reduced by 40/50/60%."
the first part of the perk is that if your healing or repair, your odd of skill-check is greater by 10%, so this part does not affect pig box/doc snap out but 2nd part does as it says that it affect all trigger skill-check success zones. jigsaw boxes have skill-check zones so they are affected by the perk. Snap out is also affected but... let's be real, those skill-check zones are giant for doc so i doubt it does anything. I have used the perk and nobody ever screams in tier 3 for survivor that i play against.
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@mizark3 said:
One important thing is don't bring Unnerving Presence or Huntress Lullaby thinking it will affect the headtrap skillchecks. Since it is a power, it isn't supposed to interact with those type of perks. There was a patch were it was bugged and worked, but that happens rarely.
unnerving presence does affect pig trap skill-check. it affects all skill-checks. not that this matters at all because.... the skill-check are easy but yeah. only lullaby does not affect skill-checks. it used to do that but it got changed.
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@Pulsar said:
Honestly....I don't think so.
Old Legion was awful, no doubt about it, but he couldn't hold people hostage in a match nor was he as easy as SM, nor could he get the kind of results even a BAD player can get with SM.
what. he was easier then SM. he ran at people, hit them and they went down. it worked exactly how cope shows it in the video. he wasn't about holding games hostage. he was about non-interactive anti-loop. they're different problems.
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@WilliamSN said:
Imo, perks that just fully hard counter other perks are fundamentally unhealthy.
Distortion full hard countering aura builds/Perks is just ridiculous, a suggestion has already been made previously to restrict the token regen to either only happen while *IN chase* or only happen *OUT of chase*. Theres instances where even with Lethal + 9 BBQ procs, the distortion user doesn't run out of tokens because of how the regen works.
Calm Spirit full hard counters Screaming builds/Perks and Doctor as a whole. Tokenize it like distortion + regen tokens only when out of chase inside the killers TR to keep the theme of the perk.
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Examples of well designed "Counter perks" are Fearmonger and Blood echo.
Fearmonger putting 5 secs/Pausing exhaustion when working on a gen is enough to mitigate the usage of Exhaustion perks while not outright deleting them.
Same thing for blood echo, IF you're injured WHEN someone else gets hooked, you get hit with 45s of exhaustion(60s CD) it mitigates exhaustion perks, but you'll still end up getting value out of them.
--
Meanwhile Distortion and Calm spirit just delete the perks they are countering for the entire game to the point where if you bring Lethal+BBQ+UW+NWTH (or any other aura/Info build) you'll essentially be playing perkless because the survivor decided to bring 2 perks.
calm spirit+distortion requires survivors to run 8 perks out of 16 to counter your build. that is 50% of their entire load out. not only that, it only works vs said perks and does not neccassary improve your raw stealth capacity which is already pretty bad for survivor as is with scratch marks, cry of pain when injured and blood marks all being tracking tools that the killer can use.
blood echo and fearmonger by themselves are terrible perks but together, they're ok IF you can keep survivor injured. This is part of reason why killer do not run these perks because survivors only run 1 exhaustion perk, so even if all 4 survivors run 1 exhaustion perk, they're only using 25% of load out while your running 2 perks for 50% of your load out to counter exhaustion. the irony is that while exhaustion effect makes you indirectly strong in chase, it doesn't improve your raw chase capacity which for many killer is already not very good. the killer that have good chase capacity don't need these perks because they outplay exhaust perks without needing any perks due to her strong-chase in-chase mobility.
counter-perk are part of the game but they're not exactly good perks because cost of running them does not meet rewards in most cases. survivor can run these types of perks more on individual scale to complement stealth approach but rarely will you be ever facing entire team using said perks. by the fact survivors are not all using same perks, it means your perks will activate. Just not on every survivor. if killer or survivor have corresponding perks, you can still win the match without your perks. the perk are optional advantage, not a given advantage that works 100% of the time.
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right, so you get free decisive strike for placing turrets near hooks. almost like build-in sabotage on hooks. that is definitely not going cause the killer to have to slug entire game. /shrug.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539173#Comment_3539173
I mean yeah that's how killers win. Having constant mapwide pressure is so stupid. Like imagine using DMS, you hook a surv then static blast a few secs after, everyone gets knocked off the gen, then locked out. You know exactly what gens are being worked and have incredible slowdown.
Coulraphobia+sloppy makes healing virtually impossible, add unnerving presence and it becomes literally impossible.
Doctor is a very mid killer but infinite TR on him would be broken and make for some absolute awful games. Idk why you're defending the idea.
Like I run the no healing build on gideons with bbq or spies or some other perk to find survs. and it's ridiculous, 1/2 gens get finished at most, dread to think what it'd be like if you could run that build on every map with the same result.
dms requires hooks. it also only lasts 30 seconds from hook. it is not like doctor is very mobile as a killer, so by the time he starts next chase, the gen-blocking is probably already over.
Coulraphobia+sloppy makes healing virtually impossible, add unnerving presence and it becomes literally impossible.
it is like playing vs tuft of hair myer's. your 1 hit for entire game after you use your first health-state. it is also not impossible to heal if you have autodidact or run we'll make it. it takes 20 second for we'll make it to heal you and autodidact takes like... maybe 8 seconds depending on skill-check RNG on autodidact 5.
Like I run the no healing build on gideons with bbq or spies or some other perk to find survs. and it's ridiculous, 1/2 gens get finished at most, dread to think what it'd be like if you could run that build on every map with the same result.
Doctor's shock therapy anti-loop is pretty strong in gideon's. I am not denying that the build is not strong but it is far from unbeatable. 1-2 gens is survivor skill issue with gen progression and ineffective looping of his power.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539101#Comment_3539101
You're not telling me anything new. There's still nothing about that where you "curve the hitbox to hit around a window for someone strafing right". If your hitbox hits a wall, it stops.
you can hit survivors behind window because once tail hitbox goes over window at 4.8 meters. you can move hitbox behind window even when they are behind the wall. it is like sphere that stays at 4.8 meters for 0.4 seconds where you move camera to hit survivor. that is how scott is hitting survivor behind rock. same idea. xeno has a lot of creative potencial skill expression with his tail strike that will take awhile for killer's to master.
do you need to curve hitbox to survivors around windows? the answer is no because you can use his tail whip hit survivors at angle. it is similar to using his power like any of ranged killers where you throw projectile at an angle from the window opening. you can do same with tail attack but it only goes 4.8 meters, so if they're too far away from window, you cannot reach survivor.
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@caipt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3537667#Comment_3537667
I disagree. The point of genblocking to stop that one specific gen from progress for a set time, so its always a valuable effect since it will always prevent progression. Thats why deadlock is good, it doesnt matter if the survivors go to a different gen because that gen isnt going off.
incapacitated does same thing. It has additional effect of preventing healing so that your not being efficient during gen-block.
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@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539024#Comment_3539024
I think they are similar in some things, but quite different. Both of them are centered around zoning, but what their powers do BEYOND that is different. Artist in kinda of a ranged killer, with their crows being used for sniping (even at short distances). A good artist can get a hit through wall after swarming, even against good survivors; the Knight is a killer focusing on reducing the pressure of the 4v1 mechanics of the game. The problem with the Knight is that is his current state, he is not quite rewarded for getting into a hunt against a good survivor or a coordinated team; Artist, by other side, is very rewarded for hitting a survivor with a crow (aura reading, potential hit across the whole map, survivors need to stop their actions to deal with the crows) and she can do this many times in a row. Knight, on other hand, can be has some rewards (aura reading on the guards, survivors forced to stop their actions) but lose all of his power while doing this, an a survivor can easily negate this pressure by dropping a pallet or jumping a window.
That why i think Artist is stronger than the Knight: her power rewards more for less.
A good survivor will loop the guard while waiting for the banner to be available, or will just hold W to another loop if he/she sees the Knight coming. That why i think a 3% to 5% haste buff while a hunt is active would be game changing for the Knight: i've done some testing with Play with your food and discovered its a very good perk on Knight, as survivors are forced to mindgame or go for the banner, because you can catch them up with the extra speed if they hold W to another loop. The problem is farming stacks can take so much time that you will lose the match before you can use them properly.
Although i know 3 gen Knight can be very annoying to face, i don't think its an effective strategy, as Skull Merchant 3 gening is: most of the time you will have someone with your guard, you chasing another person, and two people doing gens; Skull Merchant can kinda lock all of the 4 survivors outside her zone. I don't think this is ANY HEALTHY for the game, but its a fact. Thats why i didn't ask for a stronger buffs in the hunts: i believe buffed guards hunts (every guard chasing 4.4 for 20s, ex.), where they can deal damage at distance, could turn Knight into a game hostage nightmare; I think would be healthier for the game that every hunts buff the Knight himself, as the raw power would be dependent on the skills of the player, not in a AI.
"I just think knight is a bit less easy? to play. He requires a bit more outside of the box thinking in my opinion." I agree with you. Knight has a interesting skill ceiling, based on predicting survivors moviment and actions. I've won matches with the Knight because a whole team came for a flash save - as i've predicted - and could not handle the surprise of being chase by an assassin while i with the Knight was defending the area where a survivor where slugged. The Knight is not a tierC killer as some people in our community says, but he needs a buff to be a viable killer against top tier survivors.
The Knight is not a tierC killer as some people in our community says, but he needs a buff to be a viable killer against top tier survivors.
Without map of the realm. i would agree. with map of the realm, Knight goes from like 2/10 killer to like 4/10 killer. With dried horse meat or call to arm, Knight is like 4.5 roughly.
Although i know 3 gen Knight can be very annoying to face, i don't think its an effective strategy
3 gen for knight is effective strategy with perks. It is boring but it does work. You need to use his iri add-on called knight contract with 3 gen kick perks. Previously old ones were like cob+overcharge and eruption+pwyf. If i was doing it now, it would be something like overcharge/sloppy/eruption/unnerving presence. it plays something like scratch mirror myer's. you pick 3 gen closest gen at the start of the trial and you send out guards that patrol gens until you hit 4th guard. as you hit 4th guard, the 4th guard exposes you so you can play little bit like scratch mirror where you hug the survivor's back, instant place guard. They get exposed. You hit them. They go down. You put them on a hook. You kick bunch of gens to apply eruption and OC/Oppression. Sometimes you kick gens with guards. Rince and repeat until you kill everyone. There is also whole process of breaking a all pallets in an area so that you can use his instant down add-on effectively but this whole process is 3 gen in general for every killer. This strategy used to work with PWYF where you could charge 3 stacks of pwyf then use knight contract's but as of some patch, knight's power now consumes 1 stack of pwyf so 3 gen knight is not that good. You can still do it but it is just sort of a joke build
That why i think Artist is stronger than the Knight: her power rewards more for less.
Lots of killer player put artist very highly. I don't think she's particular good vs good players and this isn't me saying that she is weak or anything. I just think she is overrated in term of overall power-level. Knight's power-level is underrated. it is stronger then people give credit for but i believe reason why artist is overrated and knight is underrated is related to counter-play and base-kit power difference. Knight's base-kit is bad. Knight becomes above average with map of the realm. Artist is above average by default and the add-on like Severed hands, Carrison swarm and Mamia shoes slightly boost her zoning/range capacity. the difference between artist with add-on and no add-on is not very big. It is like 4.0 vs 4.5. Very minimal power difference.
That why i think a 3% to 5% haste buff while a hunt is active would be game changing for the Knight: i've done some testing with Play with your food and discovered its a very good perk on Knight, as survivors are forced to mindgame or go for the banner, because you can catch them up with the extra speed if they hold W to another loop. The problem is farming stacks can take so much time that you will lose the match before you can use them properly.
Knight does not need pwyf to anti-loop. As I said in my previous post, Knight is a corner killer. He gets hits in the corner of the map where he is able pincer survivors with his guards because survivor has no pallet loops to transition to. They either get hit by guard or by your m1. In the center of the map, he is weak because you can transition between pallet loops and stay in the center until knight breaks all pallets in the center. This in turn gives him a bad early game. He gets free hits mid-late game portion of the game because none of pallet resources or window resources end up working against him when he uses his power to effectively zone. This entire logic can also be applied to Artist. Artist can put birds in specific places on most pallet loops and force you walk through birds where she fires bird and it does full heath-state of damage. Artist movement speed is slow down when placing a bird so you can transition to pallets. Just like knight, in corner of the map, she can place birds down where there is no pallet to transition so you either get hit by dire crow or her m1. I haven't talk about this about Dredge but his anti-loop is almost same.
Now I am going to pose a question. Does knight and artist have any answer to running forward? The answer is that both killer have answer to running forward but it is so weak that it barely matters. The knight with Assassin guard and Dried horse meat add-on can do a full patrol path. If he lands the guard chase, the assassin has mostly the statistic's to get the hit onto the survivor. I say mostly because... MFT counters all his guard for hold-w and it is possible to run forward and outlast the assassin in very specific circumstances. The Asasssin guard is 1/3 of knight's guards so he has answer to hold-w 33% of the time. The artist has counter to running forward as well. She can throw birds. If she hits a bird, you become swarmed. When two birds connect, you lose a health-state. Between bird 1 and bird 2, if you start repelling as soon as you are hit as survivor, you have very little time between bird 1 and bird 2 to land follow-up hit onto the survivor. With efficient pathing and running forward, landing follow-up hits as Artist is somewhat challenging if the survivor stays in the Center of the map. You lose a lot of distance for missing. In summary, I think both character not good at countering hold-w strategies and they mostly excel at loop-zoning. The knight has requires a bit more outside of the box thinking to zone effectively from killer player. This is why I think the perception is that Knight is bad and Artist is good. Artist's zoning from killer player is far easy to achieve. it does not require as much strategy or mechanical skill to do. It just sort of works naturally.
-Dropping a guard into a loop
As far i understand that this can be countered in some ways, just dropping a guard into a loop is part of what makes the Knight boring to face, as some people say (i don't totally agree). To adress this - considering all the buffs above - i would put a restriction on the minimum distance the Knight would be able to drop a guard: you have to draw at least 10m of path to deploy a guard. Until you haven't drawn 10m of patrol path, you can end patrol mode; if the patrol times end and you haven't drawn at least 10m of patrol path, your power enters in a cooldown, no guard is deployed and you can't use your power for 3 seconds.
This is like saying to artist that you should not be able to direct-hit with birds and take full health-states. You should always get swarmed. Alternatively, making so you are unable to place birds within 10 meters of pallet or window achieves a similar effect as change 1. the change makes no sense. the power are meant to be used at loops. the summary of both characters is that they have strong tile shutdown but their tile-set shutdown is easy to outplay by strategically running forward as survivor. in my opinion, they're not good characters but they are stronger then m1 killers where you can greed loops and zero tile shutdown.
I would not bother to change anything about his loop shutdown. I would just give options to counter running forward so that running forward as survivor is more skill-based. The 5 changes that would do that is
-increase detection radius of Assassin and Carnifex to 12 meters, rework map of the realm to do something else.
-Increase max patrol path by 10 meters( half of the call to arms base-kit), call to arm still increase m/s of patrol path by 25%.
-Knight guards gain 5% bonus base movement speed when he draws a patrol path greater then 10 meters.
-When the Jailer is in the chase, the survivor's suffer a 3% hindered penalty during the chase.
----
To avoid the old prayer bread problem with Knight.
-When knight uses his power, a sound is emitted globally around the map.
With these 5 changes, he does no longer relies on pincer attacks to be effective. He can just use his power everywhere and if he lands guard chase. The guard will get a hit itself. He would feel like Summoner type character where guards do everything for him. Knight can still do pincer attack but he is not 100% entirely reliant on that to get downs. right now he is entirely reliant on pincer attacks and it drags his gameplay down. Knight would be high-tier killer with said changes.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538392#Comment_3538392
I may have expressed myself poorly. When I say weak link, I'm not referring to the weakest individual in the team (there will always be one). I'm referring to one individual whose game sense is nowhere near their other three teammates; things like knowing when to go for an unhook/who should do so/if and when to reset/who should bait chase/where to run the killer/which gens to pressure/whether to take a hit may not be evident to them. I would argue that going for the right play at the right time is more important than being a god at looping who always makes poor decisions (and thus for killer AND survivor).
As far as the hyperefficiency part, I also disagree. I really don't think teams need to be as efficient as they are currently against 95% of the killers you'll play against in pubs. I use solo queue as my time to work on challenges (mostly very stupid and inefficient gameplay, like stalking the killer's TR, or doing every totem, etc.). Despite the fact I waste a lot of time, typically, we'll still finish the gens very quickly if we coordinate to do so. I had a game like this yesterday with some randoms where I did every chest on the map while everyone else was messing around. We had a pretty good Legion as our killer. We had 5 hooks without a single gen done, then we decided to hunker down and start cranking them out. We 4 outed at 5 hooks.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538403#Comment_3538403
I disagree that survivors need to be "so much better than the killer" to win even as solo queue. A 3-gen SM is a different story, but you'd be surprised how many of them will get overconfident after someone DC's instantly and they finish tunneling out the bot. In fact, I had a SM send us to Midwich yesterday (with the chess grandmaster build: overcharge, oppression, sloppy, eruption with shotgun speakers and the skill check addon). Someone instaDCs because it's SM on Midwich (can't blame them) and she tunnels the bot in 2-3 minutes. I spent the rest of the game BMing her and baited her into a few chases. My teammates were extremely efficient on gens, hopping on every time she left, and they were able to finish all of them and 1-outed. Bit of an anecdote, but no one plays perfect (killer or survivor) and killers will get sloppy if they figure they're playing against solo queue.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538407#Comment_3538407
Coordinating to avoid a 3-gen is another thing that can happen organically with a little gamesense. This is typically what I'll do at the start of the match: look for the nearest gen and start working on it. Did I spawn with someone? I will point to the gen and signal for them to do it, then run to the opposite side of the map (or any critical gens) and start working on a gen there. You also don't NEED to run xyz on every survivor (and if you feel the need to do so, you may be the weak link). I've had teammates that ran No Mither, and ONLY No Mither, that juiced up killers for 3-4 gens. Again, knowing what to do, and when to do it, is more important than amazing plays or bringing strong perks.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538454#Comment_3538454
You are literally saying what I said in the OP. Looks like we're on the same page.
I disagree that survivors need to be "so much better than the killer" to win even as solo queue.
if you beating killer without good efficiency on generators than your playing against killer that does not know how to pressure a survivor team.
I've had teammates that ran No Mither, and ONLY No Mither, that juiced up killers for 3-4 gens
the killer player has zero clue how to play the killer. it is brand new player. the other problem could be that your playing a extremely survivor sided map in loops against a weak m1 killer with a crap ability such as freddy on badham preschool.
I'm referring to one individual whose game sense is nowhere near their other three teammates; things like knowing when to go for an unhook/who should do so/if and when to reset/who should bait chase/where to run the killer/which gens to pressure/whether to take a hit may not be evident to them.
what your describing is information perks on survivor. the info perks give swf-level game-sense to soloq.
knowing when to unhook = kindred
knowing where to lead chase away from teammates = bond
finding teammates to heal quickly leaves you injured = bond
knowing what gen to pressure = visionary/deja vu
not running into deadzones where teammates have used pallets = window of opportunity
most of these issues would easily get solved by just showing aura of survivor teammates. strong swf on com already does all these actions perfectly anyway. that is why the game is so easy. basically every game is like 5-6 minutes long. soloq is not nearly as efficient as strong swf but strong solo can still win.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538361#Comment_3538361
You’re taking the piss right
please explain how it would not be, at the very least, counterintuitive as hell to face.
oh no. doctor can pressure the team with his ability/perk synergy. that is too crazy. doctor already does that on gideon's. global tr just allows him to pressure team on every map. pressuring team must be an instant win for the killer.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538861#Comment_3538861
Yes maps are problematic for most killers but let's be real, it affect m1 killers more than others.
At least m2 killers can do something to play around. As m1 killer, you have to run circle.
running around in circle is not inherently bad. having zero opportunity to get hits when running in circles is the problem. many pallets are designed like that in dbd where the survivor can run circles in a specific way where it is only wastes killer time with no downside. the only counter-play for killer in many cases is breaking pallets which just leads to running forward to next pallet and repeating exact same problem as the last pallet. certain windows are also like this and for windows like garden of joy, it is even worse because it is like a pre-dropped pallet where only counter-play is to block window which can be re-used an indefinite amount of times.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539081#Comment_3539081
It can't be dragged up and down because there is no up and down component to it. It hits four narrow rectangles in front of Nemesis going from top to bottom. As opposed to Xeno's tail which is a singular long skinny hitbox (that's still shorter than Nemesis' rectangles) that still needs to account for up and down, and can sometimes miss for something as dumb as a survivor crouching.
the moving of the camera up to down is the up and down component. it also goes left to right if you press A-D. this movement lasts for 0.4 seconds. if survivor hitbox hits red circle on other side after attack finishes, you get hit.
nemesis cannot do this because his hitbox is like IIII but the llll is blocked by line of sight. so only top part of the line consistent of hitbox. Xeno is more like circle/box that you can move in any direction. As a result of this mechanic, Xeno has higher skill-ceiling because he can hit places that other killers cannot. Nemesis whip and Demo's shred have limited skill-ceiling. there is essentially nothing to learn for those killers. it relies all on the survivor to get hits.