Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588262#Comment_3588262
Ruin does nothing if the survivor just holds the repair button. So it rewards the killer for effectively defending gens.
defending gen is part of normal killer gameplay loop.
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@GannTM said:
I feel the cooldown to this perk is only there to give something in regards to number adjustments for three perk tiers. Another reason perk tiers should just get removed entirely as some perks have these unnecessary features that are only there because of perk tiers.
I agree. They could just reduce the cooldown to something irrelevant like 3-2-1 seconds.
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@WiseTraveler said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3587732#Comment_3587732
If Ruin goes back to 200% then it would have to die after one kill. 200% is probably too much because you can stack it with things like pain res. I rather have the perk constantly working after all it's a hex perk and it doesn't feel good when the perk shuts off itself.
i don't know, ruin rewards killer with regression for doing absolutely nothing. there was not a good reason to not run ruin other than the fact that totem could spawn in a bad spot and do nothing. My impression is that if they revert ruin, they will likely revert recent DH nerf and Decisive strike because Decisive strike+DH is kinda survivor equivalent of passive reward for doing nothing. I guess getting hit is something but it is inevitable part of the game. Dev specifically wanted to change the meta and Ruin was definitely meta perk before. only time will tell if these old meta perks get buffed again to must-use status.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3587346#Comment_3587346
But the point is non of killers can do that easily. SM's power just fits perfectly with this strategy.
I really hope BHVR is coming with good solution for 3-gen without making game misarable for killers.
most killer can artificially slow the game down by 3 gens. the challenge for killer is to end the game, not necessary slow it. the most concerned as aspect of 3 gens is holding game hostage for prologues period of time, say 50 minutes. This should not possible now because the perks that slow gens down barely have any impact and base regression is 400%(4x slower) then survivor progression. matching lasting more then 20 minutes should not be a regular occurrence. It is just that with current system of infinity regressing generators, it is hard to balance such an extreme.
Skull merchant is not responsible for 3 gen. what trapping type killer do with 3 gen is that they make 3 gens risky to work on. Since your forced to finish objective, the traps are more likely to activate. Without 3 gen, there is no reliable way for a trapping killer to trigger traps. Survivors can simply entirely avoid every trap and spread to do gens. A trapping killer without their traps is M1 killer with no ability. As a result, every trapping killer is end-game killer. You play the game at 1 gen because you cannot ensure that your traps will do anything. You'll still try and end chases but like.... there is little that a killer can do when a survivor team rushes gens in 4 minutes. 3 gens is somewhat killer's last chance to win the game. It is only real way to stop gen-rushing as killer. that is why i am not sure what changes to 3 gens your looking for. the survivor already does gens 16x progression than the base-kit killer regression. you should be able to break any 3 gen with that much progression.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3587367#Comment_3587367
First paragraph
It should take no longer than 60s to suss out the strengths of the team if the Killer cares to win, or even shorter if you use all the information available from Lethal Pursuer (walking thus likely Sprint Burst, AFKs, running with excessive wiggling suggesting inefficient pathing, etc.). A 3v1 essentially guarantees a tie best case for Survivor, unless the Killer colossally screws up. Big difference from Killer loss of 4 out, 3 out, and 2 out. Plus if the Survivors screw up too bad, they risk giving a 3k or 4k instead. Since we were starting from the concept of a 'competent Killer', that means on their worst day they still merely end with a tie, and the majority of the time they get a 3/4k instead. Earlier today I had 2 soloq matches where the Killer turbo tunneled they baby Surv at 5 gens, and the other 3 fell as a result. In one of them every player other than the tunneled player was individually better than the Killer, and frequently ran 1-2 minute chases (beyond average expectations) before the Killer merely Bloodlusted them at filler pallets.
"My first question is what about the mechanic is bad design to you?"
Bleedout as a mechanic or more accurately the dying state essentially puts someone in a state where they have no reason to interact with the game, and their time is better served alt-tabbed. The only reason wiggling on the shoulder even exists is to prevent all hooks from being basement hooks. As such, from Dying state to unhooked, the player isn't playing, or can do all too little to make a difference (recover on the ground at half heal speed, wiggle to prevent distant hooks, nothing meaningful more). Generators aren't exactly engaging, but the penalty of a missed skillcheck is high enough to keep the player focused on the game. Dying as is gives a paltry sum of Survival points to recover/hit wiggle checks.
Final paragraph
It currently is a secondary wincon that is slower but still possible to achieve. It should be far too slow to be desirable, due to the lack of engagement players have until unhooked/picked up. If basekit pickups or no Incapacitation existed during the Dying state (so you could heal/work gens/cleanse totems/open gates), then it would be fine to decrease the bleedout timer, because you can still play the game. Currently it is 'alt-tab time', and that is what makes it bad for the game. Like I said in the other post, time spent out of the game while you should be in-game, means why bother playing the game at all, just watch Youtube and never boot up DBD, or boot up a game you are actually allowed to play instead. As far as regression is concerned, it is basically a personal difficulty slider made alongside Clown/Blight spectrum for mix and match potential. Because the game functions on Killers eventually downing Survivors, Survivors are effectively on a ticking clock to win before resources run out. Slowdown gives Killers a longer timer, thus more resource attrition. Personally I use 1 max slowdown or gimmick combos, (on Killers I enjoy) and that is my current 'crutch/difficulty slider' for most enjoyable gameplay. Any more than 1 slowdown, and my matches are too easy to enjoy, any less, and I strain my skills beyond their current limits where I need to sweat to win, instead of casually enjoying Killer. People who care more about winning at all costs strictly run meta, because it is the most effective tactic available, or easiest to win as seen on the adjustable difficulty slider I mentioned above. I prefer to throw in perks like Blast Mine or Trail of Torment, as they are dopamine generators. I don't get as much dopamine from the raw win because I understand how meaningless it is to me, so the little moments are the most enjoyable like jump scaring as non-stealth Killers, or popping gens during the Blast Mine stun. If I just wanted to win (nearly) every match, I'd run a 3/4 slowdown Blight and steamroll without what I consider any effort on my part. I have more than 70% winrate (as Killer) as is, so I am happy with my results and how I accomplish them. Its just soloq being a torture simulator is what I strain against the most when doing tomes or when Survivor is 100% incentive.
Bleedout as a mechanic or more accurately the dying state essentially puts someone in a state where they have no reason to interact with the game, and their time is better served alt-tabbed.
do you alt tab when your on the hook on first stage? the recovery time is pretty fast. 30.5 seconds? you can still crawl. if your teammate nearby and killer is not, it is not that hard to pick survivors up. I do not see this as alt tab at all.
It currently is a secondary wincon that is slower but still possible to achieve. It should be far too slow to be desirable, due to the lack of engagement players have until unhooked/picked up.
I disagree. bleed out is not possible to achieve on competent 4 man survivor team. you are playing vs very bad survivors to achieve that in normal gameplay. like i said, i think slugging is too ineffective as wincon for pure slugging killers to work in dbd. right now it is mostly used as comeback mechanic in 3vs1's and sometimes to camp hooks.
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what, i don't see anything out of the ordinary. c33 blight has been add-on for 3 years. i thought people complaint about alchemist ring being overpowered. I don't really get it. deerstalker is one of oldest perk in the game. Knock out does not work with m2 attacks. this was nerfed long ago. Deadlock is generic game-delay. Ultimate weapon tracking perk. Looks like learn to play issue post.
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dredge is not good. His 3 problems are
1) Nightfall is not strong enough for the limit use. Needs more utility. The main aspect that nightfall empowers is his teleport but his teleport is dependent on locker placement. What could fix his map dependency is making it that dredge spawns nightfall reminents randomly on the map like old trapper traps where dredge can teleport to them like locker teleporting. this would make him so much more versatile on every map.
2) He is loud in nightfall. Terrible stealth killer. Just reducing his ambient noise would do a lot.
3) His anti-loop is too easy to shift-w. He relies on cornering the survivor to get guaranteed hits. too slow. I am not sure how to fix this problem. I find his anti-loop uninspiring. I would prefer to rework it to something else.
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that is wrong way to go about perks. Buffed perk should not necessary make them meta. the perks should just be good at doing what one would expect them to do.
For example Technician has two effects. the first effect is making skill-check not produce loud noise notification. The second effect is that it makes generators have lower volume. In other words, your suppose to be able to do silent generators. Does this perk fulfill silent generators? Well no, not really. If i am working on generator and it is on, chances are that killer is going check that gen. Why would I use this perk if it does not fulfill that fantasy of doing stealth generators?
On broader scale, perks contain synergies. For example, Plunderer instinct+Ace in the hole+Appraisal is chest looting build but.... it is not worth looting chests. Why would anyone uses these perks if it is not rewarding to loot chests? Dance with me, Deception, Parental guidance and self-preservation are all perks to suppress scratch's marks to try to lose killer but once again, none of them are worth using. They have very bad numbers to fulfill that fantasy.
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lots of controversial changes in my opinion. decisive strike gaining haste is weird because entire reason why they nerfed DS to 3 seconds was to not make a must-pick perk in first place. Unlikely there would be an additional effect added over increasing stun duration.
Deliverance and Breakdown are strange changes that promote instant unhooking in the end game.
Power struggle is odd design because.... their design is to be a perk that punishes the killer for attempting to hook survivors that were slugged. I do not think your change supports dev vision of that perk.
Fast Track: The fast-track perk is another weird perk. From survivor point of view, it is comeback perk for when killer does well in chases. you get rewarded for hook progression. From killer point of view, The killer is getting punished for killing survivors early. Killer is buffing survivors for successfully winning the game? Really weird design.
Hyperfocus & This is not happening changes are weird because I am very certain that these smart perk synergy are intended to work together. This is not happening could use better numbers.
Hope is end game perk.... it was always designed to be an end-game perk that does nothing throughout entire trial but gives a absurd advantage in end game. I remember otz saying that Hope is terrible perk 1 year ago when he made a video on it and now it gets buffed to infinity duration and suddenly it is a problem? very confusing.
Self-care being immune to mangled is weird. Reactive healing and Reassurance being immune to hemorrhage is also weird. All these perk are healing perks and those effect are anti-healing effects. why even making anti-healing effective if they don't do anything? /shrug
Spine chill, Better than New and Cut loose all have window vaulting speed. I highly doubt it would be possible for these to not stack. window vaulting speed perks are weird for survivor because survivor already fast vault in 0.5 seconds. this is already extremely fast so I don't think 30% is doing anything with 0.5 second. where window vaulting speed is super strong for survivor is at medium vaulting. this is because medium vaulting is 1.1 seconds so being able reduce medium vaults by 30% is substantial because it reverts that old change from 5-6 years ago where survivor could fast vault from any direction and any distance. the current fast vault becomes same as "buffed" 30% medium vault. In other words, you can camp windows... and that is super strong for long-wall window tile set loops like shack, jungle gyms etc.
I do support survivor having increasing perk variety but i think that perk variety for survivor has to be looked at from perk genres and perk types rather then individual perks.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3587130#Comment_3587130
I would say Survivor's skill is having less incompetent allies than the enemy, which isn't skill in your control (outside of SWF and you pick who you play with). A competent Killer ignores the competent Survivor, and wins by default (as long as there is 1 Survivor less competent than the Killer). A 3v1 might as well be a free (delayed) win for Killer, as if you have 1 on hook, 1 in chase, the final 1 has to rescue, so gens will never get progressed, and hook states will accrue.
Just as a Survivor pre-dropping every pallet, or suiciding on hook ruins the experience for other players, bleeding out instead of hooking also ruins the experience for players. We shouldn't encourage bad designs. Lessening the buildup on DCs penalties could solve the suicide on hook problem, but more complex measures might be needed for intentional predrops of all pallets. Similarly a simple fix to bleeding out is a basekit pickup, at a longer than normal timer to reach the 95%.
Removing bleedouts doesn't force the Killer to hook so much as it forces the Killer to hook in a timely manner. The same player could be in an Exponential boon zone, or picked up by another player, or have Soul Guard or Unbreakable, and a basekit pickup mechanic would remove the ambiguity and have a simple understandable timeframe. Encouraging Bleedouts as a valid alternative primary 'win' would encourage the death of the game. People don't have fun when they don't get to play. Bleeding out forces people to not play. Most Survivors I pickup in a bleedout match are AFK and don't even move for 15-30s as they were clearly resigned to their fate and were alt-tabbed watching a Youtube video or something. At the very least Survivors could complete actions like gens/totems/exit gates if they were to include a bleedout intentional win, otherwise people would hard quit Survivor, because being AFK on Youtube is the same gameplay in or out of a match.
It most certainly isn't punishing Killers making good plays, it is punishing Killers for making plays that would kill the game. We don't allow cheating for the same reason, because people would quit in mass. The game's very nature of asymmetrical sides requires slowdown or lack of agency from the greater numerical side, but pushing that lack of agency too far makes no one play. Similarly the lesser number side must be hard designed to 'win', hence 4.6 v 4.0, hence Bloodlust, hence finite pallet resources, hence entity blockers on windows. No one is going to queue into a 15 minute match with 14 of those minutes better spent AFK outside of the game, especially if they made the correct play in every circumstance, and the games decision of 'you go down now because this is a 1v4' comes into effect. Naw, I'm going to either swap games, or only play Killer, but then there will be no one to play Survivor unless they are cheating, so you can't even play Killer.
A competent Killer ignores the competent Survivor, and wins by default (as long as there is 1 Survivor less competent than the Killer). A 3v1 might as well be a free (delayed) win for Killer, as if you have 1 on hook, 1 in chase, the final 1 has to rescue, so gens will never get progressed, and hook states will accrue.
few talking points. First, the killer does not know who weak links are in a team at the start of the game. The killer has to chase survivors and find survivor which is timing consuming task in itself to find weak-links. Survivor does not have any build-up to their generator objective. the objective is exactly same at the start the game as it is at the end of the game. secondly, strong teams don't have weak-links. the killer has to create weak-points for survivor to capitalize off mistakes. It is not that easy to create 3vs1's when the team is good. lastly, the idea that 3vs1 is auto-lose for survivor is not true. if there 1 gen or 2 gens remaining and they're all split, there is still good chance for survivor to win. You have successful to be looping the killer. there is no reason why survivor team cannot finish 3 gens before someone dies. gen speed in the game is very oppressive for killer when 4 people are alive. My opinion is that the matches for survivor have "delayed" wins when you use up all the effective pallets in the game corresponding to the killer. as long pallet remaining in trial, you can still complete generators in 3vs1. It is just many survivor are used to losing chases but still finish all 5 gens. 4vs1 is like that for survivor.
bleeding out instead of hooking also ruins the experience for players. We shouldn't encourage bad designs.
My first question is what about the mechanic is bad design to you?
Encouraging Bleedouts as a valid alternative primary 'win' would encourage the death of the game. People don't have fun when they don't get to play. Bleeding out forces people to not play.
I am not saying that it should be primary win condition. I am saying it should be secondary win condition that is slower but still possible to achieve. right now, it is too slow to achieve and almost impractical which hurts killer with slugging designs. I agree that being on the floor is not fun. that is why I said that increasing recovery time for survivor is not a good idea because the survivor becomes too disengaged from the game because they're on the floor for too long. DBD should remain as fast-paced game and increasing bleed out recovery by a large amount would potentially slow the game down. The only way positive i can see from doing that is that you do not need to give killers any base gen-regression perks but this comes at expense of survivor's fun factor. The reason why I say this is because Peanits wrote long ago in 6.1 june update : " Slowdown perks should be an option, but not the only option to stay competitive. Fast-forward to today after 1 year and 3 months, killer still use most of the same perks that were stated to be used in that post Pain res, Pop goes weasel and Corrupt Intervention. the only perk that you do not see is hex:ruin which has been replaced by Surge. These are still most common perks used by killers. This means killer are still mostly dependent on game-delay perks. The only variation that killer have is what type of game-delay perks synergy with said killers. Slugging is a possible form of making killer not require any of those game-delay perks. I am just not sure whether slugging is correct type of game-delay for survivors to play against if recovery timers were increased by a lot.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3587062#Comment_3587062
Exactly, only a fool would leave a Survivor on the ground for an extended time if they didn't have a plan. The Killer can easily just hook the Survivor (and should, so that they don't lose on the pressure gained), and win much easier that way. The Killer deciding not to play the game in an engaging way should be punished, not rewarded. Reward hooks, punish slugs. There is no reason for the original 45s PTB basekit pickups, or even the more tame suggestion of 90s basekit pickups, to not be in the game.
The Killer deciding not to play the game in an engaging way should be punished, not rewarded. Reward hooks, punish slugs. There is no reason for the original 45s PTB basekit pickups, or even the more tame suggestion of 90s basekit pickups, to not be in the game.
I do not agree. the survivor's skill-cap in the game is how you manage resources to repair all 5 generators and escape through exit gate. As this sounds, bleed out timer is resource in itself for survivor. Hook-stages, pallet resources, health-state are all different types of resources. The killer's skill-cap is about managing time. hooking survivors is a time consuming action. the killer needs to be able to allocate time for how they see fit in the game. forcing killer to hook takes away intricate killer decision making. The killer does not decide how fast or how slow the match goes. when survivors do generators quickly, slugging is one of only ways for killer to have chance to comeback and win. with any form of high-speed unbreakable, unbreakable prevents you from being able to perform comebacks because you can recover quicker then killer can down survivors.
In my opinion, I think slugging-bleed out slugging should be more plausible winning strategy for killer however I don't think it should be stronger then hooking. Just possible. there should be bleed out risks when playing as survivor. from my perceptive, slugging too unattractive when 4 survivor are alive for killer because survivor gets too many pick-up chances. That is my opinion to why i think Twins is unpopular killer. It is so unattractive to hook people as twins when victor downs people from far away because it takes too long for killer to complete their objective. the idea of pure slugging from start to finish is not effective enough for killer. the main challenge is how do you make slugging engaging for the survivor. my concern is that buffing recovery time for survivor gameplay to be too inactive. The survivor becomes too disengaged from the game because they're on the floor for too long. they will feel like they're not participating in the match. Most of strength in slugging in current dbd is 3vs1's. This is because if you can down 2 people next to each other, you camp the 2 survivors to potential find the last survivor. once you find last survivor, you can chase last survivor because you have near infinity time to down them. The final survivor trying to pick up other survivors while being chased by killer will result in killer waiting for slug to be picked up only for them to hit them right back on the floor. Once recovery timers are reset, then killer only needs to down you to end the match. All of this still relies on two survivors consecutively failing chases in short time frame. in that sense, I always see it as survivor misplay for killer to get a successful slug. this why I do not agree in regards to punishing killer for killer making a good play. One thing I will say in regards to slugging is that I do think that 3vs1 slugging and 2vs1 slugging is too killer sided. when someone picks you up from dying state, my opinion is that it is little cheap for killer to be able to directly put you back in the dying state. As far as end game 2vs1 slugging is concerned, i do not really like how survivor end games can be drawn out by either side from excessive stealth or excessive slugging for 4k. I am not entirely sure how to properly address it but I do not like how the end game is when the killer is winning. I wish there was some faster method of concluding the game for the killer in some capacity. I believe finisher Mori was dev attempt to make end-games finish faster. I just do not think it was hitting the goal.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3586229#Comment_3586229
The funny thing with the 45s that people kept claiming to be bad was actually the Mori system tied to it. Even in a classical slug scenario of an Oni snowballing with 3 downs, that yielded 28s of the first person downed, with 17s to pickup, then everyone else could still be hooked sequentially as long as you carried them to hooks en route to the next person.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GSX27I5QGK2M/onislugginggroaningstorehouse.png
(Here is a more detailed breakdown of the concept and picture above, feel free to skip if you got the gist of it.) In this basic Oni slugging from 3 power hits across the map, Oni still has time to hook each of them even when they were downed in a triangle of opposite corners (with 45s basekit pickups). From the first down in the top left, and the final down in the bottom center, the Oni merely needs to remember the order of downed Survivors, and they can't pick themselves up if they moved. After Oni downs the Yellow Surv 3, they go back to hook Red Surv 1, and try to find the hook en route to Green Surv 2. After that, then have a shortened timer of (an average) 11s to pick up Surv 2, and can repeat the same rough process en route to Surv 3. At that point the Oni could take the closest hook available (H3A) or attempt a more central hook to be closer to the action (H3B).
Since they tied the finished Mori to that same mechanic, Killers were instead purposely bleeding out to speed run attempts for a 4 down win. Personally I think the finisher Mori should be tied to (only) 1 Survivor alive and on the ground, and then 3 button options pop up over the Surv (like the current Mori/pickup button prompts), Quick Mercy (skip Mori, counts as hatch escape), Mercy (play Mori, counts as hatch escape and Kill by hands), and Murder (play Mori, counts as Kill by hands). That way people don't have to look for hatch, they can just end the match there and then. At the same time it doesn't prevent the Killer from having the option to manually find hatch themselves if they liked the old system.
almost no killers have any time to down 1 survivor in 45 seconds if the survivor is skilled at looping said killer. Just hold-w with 1 health-state is 20 seconds for m1 killer. this is not accounting all pallets or windows that exist in the map. down 3 people in demon fury is learn to play issue on survivor end. Oni's demon fury is loopable. it is just that it takes survivor skill to loop.
even at 90 seconds, you barely have enough time to down two survivors and walk back as killer from one end of the map to other end of the map. It is just that if someone is on floor for 90 seconds, they might bleed out eventually so killer might get a reward for downing people. that is why unbreakable works with that long recovery time. The only problem is that it is not fun for survivor to stay on floor for 90 seconds. that is why I do not advise increasing bleed out recovery time. It is better if killer get rewarded with faster bleed out timer for applying pressure to the team then trying stagnate the game. at same time, maybe slower dbd games is a good thing? it is a way to give killer's game-delay without introducing any game regression perks into the game for killer. I am just not sure if that type of game-delay survivors and killer were necessary looking for.
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useless perk because it disincentives tunneling. you spend time in a chase in which you want your opponent to heal then ignore them the entire match. There is too much of time sink to use the perk for what value you get out of it. to add insult to injury, it is also rng based.
I miss original thanatophobia.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3587022#Comment_3587022
curious of what is wrong with current state of the game as base-kit?
That's the thing, I don't see any major issues right now for generic games. There are some changes that would be good for sure, but nothing game breaking so far. I would probably start with nerfing blight addons. That's a good start.
Basekit Bond is really big deal in my opinion, that's really not going to keep status quo.
Kindred survivor aura reading would help, but I don't see it as something that would need other for major changes, that could be left with wait and see approach.
I don't think this would end well with Bond basekit without any other change.
As you said Bond is not going to help bad players, it's going to help a lot for good players, but do they really need a help? Kindred would help mainly bad players, because their macro game is not good enough to guess situation just from HUD.
So change that makes bad players less miserable to play with is good and I don't see it as major issue.
Change that makes good players even better is definetly an issue.
your post makes no sense. what does nerfing blight have to do with buffing killer and nerfing survivor?
Basekit Bond is really big deal in my opinion, that's really not going to keep status quo.
your acting like giving free base-kit borrow time is keeping the status quo. The whole point of changes is to move away from status quo. hopefully in a positive direction.
As you said Bond is not going to help bad players, it's going to help a lot for good players, but do they really need a help? Kindred would help mainly bad players, because their macro game is not good enough to guess situation just from HUD.
So change that makes bad players less miserable to play with is good and I don't see it as major issue.
Change that makes good players even better is definetly an issue.
Perhaps I worded this incorrectly. Bond does help bad players but bad player will not suddenly win every game just like borrow time does not make survivors instantly win games. When you say "Do they really need help?", the answer is no because the soloq survivor is equipping the perk but the whole point of the change is to not have near mandatory perks without being in a swf-type severe disadvantage. that is what OP post is about. Although I think WoO goes a bit too far. Just knowing what pallets are dropped is sufficient.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3586935#Comment_3586935
sometimes leaving survivors on the hook is best play
That's true, but this is only when you have information, which is not something you have unless you play SWF, kindred would give you quite a lot of information at that point and it's up to you to decide.
Bond would also not give you that information anyway, because of limited range. Kindred would simply work way better for this and definetly way more balanced (only survivor aura).
that is why this perk should be base-kit so soloq can make proper decisions in-game
You would have to make global changes either nerf other aspects for survivors or buff killers. This is simply not perk to bring into current state of the game as basekit.
This won't really do anything for bad survivors
So it won't help bad survivors and good survivors are going to be even harder to deal with...
It would just remove many mistakes survivor would do otherwise.
UI already gives a lot of info on hook saves. most of the time, you should not be going for hook saves if your across the map. you can use bond like a radar where if you just walk like 15 meters forward, you can scan around 50-60 meters of the map. that is half the map.
You would have to make global changes either nerf other aspects for survivors or buff killers. This is simply not perk to bring into current state of the game as basekit.
curious of what is wrong with current state of the game as base-kit?
So it won't help bad survivors and good survivors are going to be even harder to deal with...
It would just remove many mistakes survivor would do otherwise.
do you find it too difficult to win games as killer? None of those efficiency errors or decision making errors are intended for soloq survivor. it is just that there is lack of base-kit information to play as team so everything in soloq at base-kit is often left to luck and chance.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3586185#Comment_3586185
Kindred is situational that's the point.
It would help survivors basically only when they need it (someone is on hook), it wouldn't happen you are left on hook, or there is multiple survivors going for unhooking (this got way better with HUD change tho).
Survivors don't really need help when everyone is standing.
Bond is really underrated perk
- you will never bring killer to survivors working on gens
- you can easily go for body blocks
- easy to find survivors to heal
If soloQ survivors had passive bond, they will be often worse for killer than most SWF groups.
that is not true. sometimes leaving survivors on the hook is best play especially if killer is camping and is poised to tunnel player out. It means you can work on generators and loop killer without needing to loop killer because they're not committing to any chases.
Bond is really underrated perk
you will never bring killer to survivors working on gens
you can easily go for body blocks
easy to find survivors to heal
If soloQ survivors had passive bond, they will be often worse for killer than most SWF groups.
I disagree in regards to being worse then Strong SWF groups. those just some of advantages of playing as 4 man swf. soloq would be the same as most swf groups. those are some of main problems of soloq. slow healing, poor teamplay and improper looping/generator efficiency. that is why this perk should be base-kit so soloq can make proper decisions in-game and not leave everything up to chance/luck. This won't really do anything for bad survivors because bad survivor cannot loop properly, they do not have game-sense to bodyblock correctly and healing does little when your not good at optimizing chase-time.
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@HugTechLover said:
Premade teams are often no better than a solo q team. Many of them are just having fun with friends, and die to altruism.
Also… just because a group of survivors beat you, does not mean they are SWF. I promise you there are solo q teams that are spanking killers. Refusing to believe they are anything but solo q is copium.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3586627#Comment_3586627
Also a terrible idea. SWF would never get a game.
from my experience, they're generally faster at objective and faster at healing. sometimes i notice more bodyblocking or smarter flashlight attempts. I don't notice anything else. often they loop worse then soloq because... well there is no reason to loop well if your finishing every game in less than 6 minutes. so most of those swf games are like.... the entire match is at 1 gen or end-game.
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dev did try that with 45 seconds. with 90 seconds, it is likely fine to be slugged however you will feel like gameplay is really slow on survivor end. the recovery rate increase perks like boon:exponential would need to be adjusted to be halve the value. I am not sure what point of unbreakable and No mither would be because they would both be recovery perks... except one has drawback of being injured. either way max recovery would need to be no more then 50% on those two perks. anything faster then 60 seconds of recovery is really bad for killer under that system.
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@VomitMommy said:
Just use those perks instead if you want them?
It's my most used build for soloQ: Lithe/WoO/Bond/We'll make it.
Those perks are really good and are definetly not something to ever be basekit for anyone.
I can get behind survivor aura kindred, but that's about it.
kindred is situational, it only shows aura when someone is on the hook. what about if they gave bond base-kit and bond perk increases default by 8/10/12 meters.
window of opportunity is excessive. i think I would prefer any mean necessary passive where you can see dropped pallets aura. that is enough information to know when your teammates uses a pallet.
it would be nice if soloq could use more perks without feeling too much of disadvantage in doing basic gameplay actions. The same thing would be nice if killer had some base-kit generator regression for hooking survivors to not make generator so oppressive when killer is ending chases quickly.
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@HugTechLover said:
I would say quality / accuracy of matchmaking.
There’s no reason I should still be getting paired with some of the players I get matched with. The skill gap is mind blowing sometimes, on both survivor and killer.
I will challenge you though. The gap between strong and weak killers is not a problem. It’s how it should be. You cannot justify a killer such as trapper, wraith, pig, or Freddy… being as strong as blight, nurse, or wesker, simply because of mechanical skill floors/ceilings.
why not? the harder killer can still be better than weaker killers but there is should not be a massive divide between them.
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@Evan_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3585396#Comment_3585396
If something being useless against good players is a reason to remove something, 90% of the content should be removed.
I don't support removal of mechanic. I support buff to the mechanic because it is not effective enough at stopping survivor check spots at loops.
@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3585396#Comment_3585396
I thought they removed it because the increased blur gave people motion sickness or something? I don't know I'm really not a fan of the blur effect, it is just super annoying to not see anything and it does not even make much more with his power like he would not be much worse without the effect, i m sure there is something else we could add instead of the blur, that does not involve decreasing vision or whatever...
the clown bottles is suppose create motion sickness effect where your not sure of clown distancing. the problem is that I can still camp a jungle gym pallet and slide perfectly despite being under the blur effect. That is ineffective mechanic. What the mechanic is suppose to do is change my judgment for how close or how far clown is making check spot harder. Purple blur is not successfully accomplishing that goal.
I find it funny that survivor can complaining about mild blur effect but killer have to deal with flashlight blinding at pallets and flashlight blinding at windows regularly in their gameplay. i should be complaining as killer about motion sickness because flashlight physically blinds me from tracking and moving properly.
i m sure there is something else we could add instead of the blur, that does not involve decreasing vision or whatever...
You could make clown invisible during pink bottles but he is not designed to be Ghost like Spirit. He is designed to be a guy with fat guy with serial knife throwing bottles at you. My suggestion would be to make his bottles apply Hex:Two can play perk effect. At least than, flashlight blind might do something and make survivors run into walls.
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@Huxy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3585933#Comment_3585933
And at the tiles Shred isn’t optimal at, a normal M1 wouldn’t do you too much better either, which is why you should run Coup if you really want a Perk that beefs up your M1
when i play demo and survivor is good and loops m1 well but gives me opening shred, my average stbfl stack is 3-4. Sometimes, I could be like 3-4 hooks in with 3-4 stacks. that does not mean that stbfl is a bad perk on those killers. It just means that survivor is countering your opportunities to m1. The reason why black heart is bad add-on for demo is because it does not reduce thresholds enough where survivor does not make it to another loop. It is 3 stack of stbfl. If you think stbfl is bad on demo because your getting 3 stacks, why do you think getting 3 stacks of stbfl on your power is suddenly good? It is not good.
the reason stbfl is good is because there possible threshold of 8 stacks where stbfl really saves a lot chase time on killer end. M2 killers with reliable power will never go down in stacks and will only go up. The advantage of these killers is they're able to hit & run with the perk. Your allowed to detach chases with the perk. With other m1 killers, you are NOT allowed to detach chases when you use this perk. this is because you have 1/4 chances to find obsession. If you don't have power to mitigate the drawback then the perk's drawbacks makes you tunnel vision which is why some killer player dislike STBFL as a perk. they don't like loss of freedom for who they chase. you can try mitigate drawback by using tracking perk to ensure you find non-obsessions but if obsession bodyblock you than perk quickly becomes irrelevant. @jesterkind point is that you will eventually make the perk relevant over-time even if it does not produce game-winning effect every single game. that is why he says that it is possible that another perk could be better slotted from a player subjective point of view.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3585648#Comment_3585648
It isn't dark maps with immersed survivors that's the problem. It's dark maps, which are half of the maps, that's the problem. It's critical to be able to identify good spots to place pods and quickly find survivors after switching to a pod. When the map is dark, this becomes x3 harder to do.
"I'm going to ignore specualtive statements on a world where Singularity's pick rate cuts by more than half of what it is now, because fundamentally the reason why Twins is unpopular is far more deeply rooted in their playstyle and bugs than Singularity is. They have entirely different issues and those issues are addressed in entirely different ways."
Firstly, we don't know Singularity's current play rate. It has already been proven that Nightlight's stats significantly differ from the actual stats. He could already be at Twins play rate. We will have to wait until BHVR releases stats again to know for certain. You also seem to be forgeting that with every new killer released and reworked, the play rates of all other killers drop as people change mains. Singularity is a new a killer that hasn't gone through this process yet and will drop in play rates as more killers are released.
"I thoroughly think EMPs are in a fine state outside of chase. Making them only cleanse yourself would make doubling gens when one survivor is Slipstreamed entirely unsolvable, one person has to drop the gen or both survivors are now Slipstreamed, with a very out-of-the-way solution of two different EMPs. I think any further changes to EMPs, if deemed necessary, should solely focus on their use in chase. As for reworks (that I can comment on, sorry Doctor and Cannibal):"
Slipstream spreading easier isn't a problem. It's what Singularity needs. Currently, Slipstream can be removed at a much faster rate than it can be applied. As I've already said, Plague's Infection spreads much easier than Slipstream and already infects multiple survivors working on the same gen.
"Nightmare is a non-point. Sure, the rework may have functioned short-term, but as we see it now, it didn't pan out well. Freddy is regarded as a bottom-3 killer, for good reason that you yourself identified."
Freddy was popular for years. The rework success wasn't "short-term". As I've said, it wasn't the rework that was unsuccessful. It was the nerfs afterwards that caused his current state. I also don't really blame BHVR since that the rework was done in the very early stage of the game when BHVR had limited experience designing and balancing the game. If they reworked him again today, it would be very different.
"In a similar vein, Trickster currently is at risk of ending up going the same way, given his PTB changes are widely regarded as making him too strong, especially with use of Death Throes Compilation."
He won't be any worse than he is already.
I think you are completely missing the reason for why certain killers may be weaker after their rework. The killers that became weaker after their rework were the ones that were completely unfun to play against. From that list, the only 2 killers that have supposedly gotten weaker were Skull Merchant and Legion. Both of these killers were extremely unfun to play against before their rework. Singularity doesn't fall into this category.
"I'm going to ignore specualtive statements on a world where Singularity's pick rate cuts by more than half of what it is now, because fundamentally the reason why Twins is unpopular is far more deeply rooted in their playstyle and bugs than Singularity is. They have entirely different issues and those issues are addressed in entirely different ways."
singularity does share something in common with twins. There is some slugging component to Singularity because when you hook a survivor, the survivor loses infection. If you leave survivor slugged on the floor, they keep their infection and when an uninfected survivor pick-up that survivor. that survivor becomes infected. The more survivor that are infected, the longer your overclock duration lasts. The base-kit encourages you to perform that gameplay. That is why Cocolatte is using a perk called Knock out. Knock out is slugging perk that removes aura of survivors on the floor. Cocolatte is using slugging to spread infection. He is putting camera on the Slugged survivor then chasing another survivor, infecting another survivor and attempting to down a second survivor. If survivor on floor is pick-up, he goes back to his camera and teleport's back to the slug. By doing that, he has 3 survivors infected. It replicates Singularity's iri add-on Denial Requeistion Form which begins trial with 4 infected survivors.
this is another reason why singularity is difficult to play killer at base-kit. you need game-sense and understanding how to slug to keep entire team infected. Infecting people, hooking people and balanced your slugging with infection is very complex gameplay at base-kit. Soma Family Photo add-on greatly simplifies singlurarity gameplay because like I said, you only need 1 survivor infected so it becomes as simple as fire pod, shoot, keeping teleport till you down survivor, hook rinse repeat. At base-kit, you have to do all these other steps involving slugging to keep entire team infected to have a good enough overclock for the entire game.
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@Huxy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3585323#Comment_3585323
Kinda just phased out after reading
Demo and Nemesis are not good at playing pallets.
Demo's Shred is incredible at nearly every tile in the game. Only times Shred has any issues getting hits is at small, round loops, loops where Coup shines.
The charge time of Shred isn't even an issue. 0.65 seconds is nothing when you come from the long side if the loop and only 0.15 of those actually slow you down (and it isn't even a big slow).
Xeno has the best anti-loop out of Demo, Xeno and Nemesis and that isn't even a question, but I really do not know what it has to do with STBFL being a trap Perk and outclassed by Coup, other than it not needing it (which Demo doesn't need either to do well).
that is my point. Demo and Nemesis are not good at playing pallets but Coup is a perk to try to play dropped and undropped pallets. your better off breaking the pallet even though demo and nemesis have poor pallet breaks that accomplish nothing when survivor is good at linking pallets.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3585350#Comment_3585350
Nah, that basically leaves you not much of gameplay for that time during which the clown might just catch up to you if you do nothing and you could make it even worse by doing something while not seeing what you are doing... There should be counterplay to killers powers what are you gonna do when you are completely blind? Hope you are not stuck anywhere and just run or what?
the problem with clown's blur is that it is useless vs good players because you can still see him. the bad clown player don't even hide their red glow so the fog does nothing because you can see red glow on the floor. purple fog is suppose emulate that flashlight blind effect and there used to be add-on that buffed blur effect but i believe it got nerfed/removed from clown's rework. I think it was garnish kit which is now that yellow bottle boost add-on which is a joke add-on due to yellow bottles being situational to use.
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@DrKetchup said:
It serves no role other than annoyance, be rid of it already.
it serves to attempt counter survivors that camp safe pallets. you can sometimes mindgame weaker survivor into making a mistake into vaulting if you hide your red glow. Only works bad players but it does have purpose. Blur needs buffs, maybe make it work like that new hex perk that flashlight blinds you for 1.5 seconds.
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@ays12151 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3583571#Comment_3583571
Chili Addons apply hidden penalties on acceleration. I don't care about Chili addons. The Beast's Marks addon allows Bubba to very skillful playstyle and Bubba just needs this addon at base kit.
for me, the anti-camping mechanic has little to no effect on my bubba games. I am still able to slug people and hook-camp people fairely easily. If i was to address anything about bubba, it would be his add-on dependency on award winning chili. that add-on really should be base-kit like wraith's windstorm change. As i spoke in another thread with you, it is not hidden penalty on acceleration. it is that acceleration scales his m/s speed proportionally in relationship to total duration of the first charge. He'd greatly benefit from duration's being base-kit.
Of course, i would not be opposed to faster m/s because faster m/s is also good. These days though, i am not playing as much bubba due to playing other killers.
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@Huxy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3584976#Comment_3584976
And the time wasted playing as an M1 Killer to get to those 8 Tokens will lose you more time than it saves against good Survivors, especially when Black Heart exists.
If you really want a Perk that beefs up your M1, use Coup. It complements Shred miles better than SBTFL since you don't need to sacrifice Shred to use it. You'll only use the Coup Tokens at tiles Shred isn't optimal on
coup is a perk to play dropped pallets. xeno, nemesis and demo are suppose be killer where their special attack allows them to play pallets. Demo and Nemesis are not good at playing pallets. Shred is like Coup the grace but has 0.65-1 second cast time. Lunge attacking has no cast time. Nemesis is not good at playing pallets because the survivor can crouch his tentacle strike due to cast time. In addition, nemesis also has to hit survivor 3 times to down them in first two chases. What in common with Demo and Nemesis is both of them have pallet breaking base-kit. The problem is that their pallet breaking is too slow to be meaningful in many instances especially if survivor is pre-dropping pallets at the correct time.
Xeno is excels at getting hits at dropped pallets. Uniquely, his tail strike does not break pallets like Nemesis and Demo. Because hitting survivors at dropped pallets is more time efficient then breaking them, xeno tends to be best out of the 3 killers. He doesn't need coup because his tail strike is better Coup. Nemesis and Demo can use Coup but your rejecting their ability by using Coup which is counter-productive to playing the killer. Your better off playing some other killer than using Coup.
People will call this bait but, no, you're 100% right. STBFL is the biggest trap Perk in the game.
People will use it on Demo and then their ability to use Shred as an anti-loop tool will basically dissappear and will play a primarily M2 Killer as an M1 Killer just so they can... keep the STBFL Tokens when Black Heart is better in almost all situations
Just because you equip a perk does not mean you should hyper prioritize stacks when it is not possible. You should always prioritize your m2 and then calculate whether it is possible to get m1 to increase stack count.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3584273#Comment_3584273
I don't think you understand how strong these 2 addons are and how to use them to their full potential.
DRF is extremely strong due to the syngergy with Soma Family Photo and Lethal Pursuer. Lethal Pursuer lets you fully utilize the 30-60 sec window where you have all survivors Slipstreamed and a full duration speed boost. You can start chase extremely fast, down the first survivor extremely fast and keep up high momentum throughout the entire game. Secondly, it's extremely good on maps where it's hard to Slipstream survivors, e.g. Lery's and Red Forest, since it saves a lot of time. Thirdly, it significantly delays survivors getting EMP due to the later EMP spawn and fact that they have to use their first EMP to clear the DRF Slipstream. Cocolatte rated DRF as A tier, but with the synergy I mentioned, I think it's S tier.
You have it the wrong way around. MFT makes Soma weaker. Once MFT is nerfed, Soma will be even stronger. The reason it's so strong is the synergy with Rapid Brutality. You can get a 5-7 sec window where you have a 10% speed boost, which is often enough to get hits, especially when combined with Coup De Grace. Once MFT is nerfed, you will be able to get even more hits with this combo. Cocolatte rated Soma as S tier and described the addon as extremely powerful.
Anyway, if you only use yellow and brown addons, this killer is extremely hard. The reason Otz does this is that he wants to test killers in their "base form".
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3584389#Comment_3584389
I disagree. All of the killers with an extremely low pick rate have a good reason for why no one plays them. If these reasons are addressed, people would play them. See the pick rates.
Singularity is the only hard killer that no one plays. Blight and Nurse are hard but popular due to their strength.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3584439#Comment_3584439
I think he will be reworked but probably 3-5 years from now after all the other killers are reworked. Once Twins are reworked, Singularity and Hag will be the 2 least played killers, and BHVR will eventually tweak him.
i think there is misunderstanding to why Singularity is hard to play. So summary is that when you infect a survivor with slipstream, you gain ability to instantly teleport but the teleport is around 11-12 meters away. Overclock by default lasts 4.7 seconds+1 second per survivor that is infected. Survivors running forward outrun overclock duration. In order for singularity use the buff in chase, you need have 3 survivors infected. anything less than 3 survivor at base-kit means that survivor can just run forward after teleporting and they will outlast the overclock duration. Infecting 3 survivors entire trial is really impractical because 1 EMP can remove all 3 infections. At base-kit, singularity is not a good killer.
The way to fix his kit so that he needs less survivors infected is a purple add-on called Soma Family Photo. this add-on grants 5% haste. It has negative that it reduces overclock duration however there is grey add-on called kid ball glove that reverses negative. when you use these two add-on together, you only need 1 survivor infected. Survivor can no longer outrun your overclock duration. you don't need run kid ball glove because you can just have two survivors infected which is what Cocolatte does. The reason why Singularity is unpopular is because his base-kit is not very good and he is entirely reliant on Soma photo to be effective chasing killer. The only way you can not play with Soma photo is to have 3/4 survivors infected which is impractical because you need to know where 75% of the team is at all times and you have surpress EMP'S and make survivor waste EMP's.
Otz, a player with 11k hours, is currently trying to win streak on him and only averages 3-4 wins before losing, which is extremely low compared to his other killers.
Otz is losing because he is playing a killer that highly add-on dependent but he is also refusing to use high rarity add-on's without understanding that some killer simply rely on higher rarity add-on to be viable at highest level. When your doing win-streaks, you need to bring your A-game. It is just that some add-on might be considered too much of gameplay change for doing win streaks. he needs to distinguish necessity add-on and game-changing add-on that he might consider inappropriate for win streaks.
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@TAG said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3584004#Comment_3584004
The way I personally see it is like this (and anyone is free to argue otherwise):
Pig's advantages are as follows:
1) Faster movement speed
2) Zero cool-down and unlimited duration for stealth mode
3) Full control over turning when dashing (Chucky is limited in his ability to turn)
4) Built-in slowdown in her tool kit
5) No warning that she is in stealth mode (Chucky has fake footprints to warn Survivors, and Survivors can hear him snickering when he is nearby)
Chucky's advantages are as follows:
1) No penalty to movement speed while stealthing (Pig moves slower than a non-teleporting Nurse)
2) Does not have to stop moving while charging up his ambush attack
3) He can go through pallets without having to break them, and can dash over a vault spot as well
4) Smaller penalty if he misses his dash attack
5) Instantaneous stealth (Pig takes over a second to crouch unless she is using Combat Straps)
Out of all of these, the ones that really tip the scales in favor of Chucky are his lack of penalty to movement speed while stealthing and his ability to stay fully mobile while trying to line up a dash attack. Mind you, I think #3 and #4 are live to be nerfed when the chapter hits live, so this all could easily change.
#5 is wrong. chucky has like 1 second delay before his stealth begins. #4 is wrong. pig has 2 second missed cooldown. chunky 2.25 but pig also has add-on called workshop grease and Shattered Syringe to reduce it by 50% for 1 second cooldown.
Chucky has better stealth, better 1vs1 due to pallet vaulting and a better dash. Pig has game delay and potencial mori's. ultimately it depends whether you play pig because of traps or you play pig because of ambush dash.
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I think doctor is his unique own killer. I do not think it is healthy to homogeneous killer powers. Skull merchant's design is more center on how clown works. I agree hindered/haste effects have low skill-cap however my opinion with haste/hindered effects is that anti-loop like that prays on weaker loops in the game but scales poorly as loop becomes stronger. I still break pallets strong pallets like Shack and Jungle gym''s with skull merchant. The skill-cap of using drones at stronger tiles is hitting red laser as you break the pallet on the correct side such that survivor has hard time making it to next tile. Drone placement matter. So my first comment in regards video is that how easy it is to down a survivor depends on the loop. the skill in playing killer is how time efficient you are at getting downs. So yes while bad skull merchant will eventually down survivors, the speed at which you down survivors affects how often you will win on killer. The skill expression in killer is time efficiency. My other comment is that i think doctor shock therapy might be more frustrating to go against because it would eliminate the slide pallet mindgames on pallets.
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OP post needs more information for why he does not enjoy playing survivor. the post mentions that one of reasons is perks but OP should specify what perks he enjoyed using and if any perks could be changed to improve satisfaction of playing survivor.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3583757#Comment_3583757
Dramaturgy is pretty meh perk. It can be useful tho but there is a lot risks to use it. And plus you need to be healthy for use it. I don't see this perk becomes meta, especially on comp level.
what risks? there is no risk to using it if you know what your doing. I have been using Dramaturgy+Dead hard for about 3 weeks but it is not been my main build. it is my side-build. My typical build is MFT+DH however when MFT was announced to be getting nerf, i needed to adapt my build because the perk inevitably face negative changes.
Dramaturgy is old DH for distance. you use it exactly how old DH for distance dashing worked. it gives 25% haste for 2 seconds for free at activation of a command. It has severe drawback which is that you need to be healthy to use it. you greed windows and if killer makes correct read where he wins 50/50 where killer gains distance, then you use the perk to get back distance loss to get to a pallet/window vault. Once I get hooked, My dead hard activates. Now i just ignore the perk and I use dead hard as my exhaustion perk. I don't think DH needs introductions given that it was meta few patch ago before COH got nerfed.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3583941#Comment_3583941
How in the world do you get a hit on a jungle gym as Wraith? I'm genuinely curious. Even with 2 uncloak speed addons you're still way too slow for the survivor to not either make it to the pallet or window before you can hit them. If you know something I don't, I'd be very interested in hearing that.
Playing M1 killer around a jungle gym should not work either because there are 3 safe spots where the survivor can simply wait and watch out for the killer. If that survivor cannot do that, then that is not an issue with the tile but with their own lack of knowledge / experience / patience.
All of the killers you mentioned, besides Wraith, have something in common. They have very oppressive chase powers. Nurse will hit you anywhere. You could have 1000 pallets and 800 windows and she still would get her hits. Try that on any other killer. Blight to a degree is in a very similar position. When Legion has their power, you're gonna get hit, no matter what too. So against these killers, there is pretty much no such thing as a god pallet. Because in theory they could hit anywhere. Even in shack.
I'm not sure what exactly you are trying to say with this list of strong anti-loop killers. Because the issue remains. Many killers have no choice but to brute force their way through. Which is neither fun for the killer nor the survivor as far as I can tell because both don't need to use their brains when that happens. So the interactive part is actually not all that interactive.
I agree, that we can't remove all strong loops from a map but with many maps as stacked as they are, I am of the opinion, that we would either need to decrease the amount of resources or replace them with weaker / more fair versions in these cases. You can't have your cake and eat it too, as they say. The alternative is to rework every killer with weak / mediocre chase powers or buff them in that regard. But how exactly do you do that without making them a pain to go against?
I agree, that we can't remove all strong loops from a map but with many maps as stacked as they are, I am of the opinion, that we would either need to decrease the amount of resources or replace them with weaker / more fair versions in these cases. You can't have your cake and eat it too, as they say. The alternative is to rework every killer with weak / mediocre chase powers or buff them in that regard. But how exactly do you do that without making them a pain to go against?
killer with strong chase powers can handle unfair loops so those pallets that are fair for them should still stay same and keep spawning. they do not need a buff. the killer that are forced break such pallets could instead not have those tiles spawn when they are selected. a variation of the loop could spawn that is weaker for those killers.[nerf survivor]
alternatively, you could buff all m1 killer to have like faster lunges and coup the grace base-kit so there is more opportunity to mindgame those pallets by making check spots less safe but now your balancing the standard loop as everything as long-wall jungle gym pallet. [Buff m1 killers]
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@[Deleted User] said:
They don't need tracking or chase perks, so you can run four slowdowns or 3 slowdowns+NOED. Corrut/Pain Res/PGTW/Eruption and tunnel the first down out. Easy 50 win streak. Well, maybe not easy, but you get the point.
you described my exact build on him. BBQ/Pop/Eruption/Pain res with emergency helmet and Kane's helm.
Sometimes I run Stardew map+that yellow add-on for footsteps to run Monitor&nurse+Nurse calling+Pain res+sloppy as less serious build to play stealth hit & run type xeno. It is not amazing but it has funny moments.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
I do think the perk could use a few changes. It doesn't need a huge nerf but it does need a few adjustments.
First - no more conserving stacks on M2. This is the biggest issue with it imo. It removes the ability for the obsession to try to reduce its strength by taking hits since any M2 killer can just use their special attack instead. M1 killers aren't affected by this nerf, but it prevents killers like Demo from just saving stacks for free.
Second - cooldown reduction goes to 4% per token instead of 5%, for a maximum of 32% at 8 stacks. This brings the reduced cooldowns at the higher token levels closer to what they were prior to 6.1.0. The higher token-level cooldown times were fine prior to 6.1.0 and didn't need the indirect buff they got from that update (even though the base cooldown reduction was 100% a good change). The cooldowns with this change will still be faster than they were with 5% prior to 6.1.0 all the way up to 7 tokens, and only slightly worse at 8 (and even at 8, survivors still get less of a speedboost than they used to so it's not really worse). (I like this more than just reducing the number of tokens to 6, so it still requires the same amount of effort to reach maximum power.)
Lastly - if you are within 16 meters of a hooked survivor, and for 5 seconds afterwards, you don't get the cooldown reduction if you hit someone. STBFL should be a strong chase perk. It should not be a strong camping perk, especially in endgame. It's currently too effective for camping as well as quickly downing a rescuer and then immediately slugging them and going straight after the unhooked survivor again.
losing stacks to obsession mechanic is outdated. the perk should be buffed, not nerfed. Instead of losing stacks, it should not give any stacks for obsession hits. the perk tier could scale number of max stacks to 6/7/8.
I still think that survivor gain too much distance for hold-w with health-states. it's kinda silly that you waste 20 second of time for doing one of least skillful actions on survivor. m1 killer should not need to ideally be forced to run a perk to balance second-chancing. So at least 20% of stbfl should be base-kit before any nerfs to the perk happen.
for camping and tunneling off hook, they can simply invent survivor perks to specifically counter stbfl such as increased unhooking speed or a survivor perk that increases killer attack recovery time. I doubt survivor will use it but at least option should be there. I consider this a learn to play issue with bodyblocking however sometimes perks can fix learn to play issues when a player is poor at specific skill in the game.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3583937#Comment_3583937
Killers that I have been able to reliably get HITS with at jungle gyms:
Wraith, Doc, Huntress, Nurse, Spirit, Legion, Oni, Demogorgon, Pyramid Head, Blight, Twins, Nemesis, Pinhead, Artist, Wesker, Knight and Alien.
Most of those Killers will disappear if you play against comp teams, but even still, I did manage to beat up a few back in the day using Blight and Wesker.
Survivors do need safe structures. Jungle Gyms are reliable and decently strong, but not impervious. I have mindgamed MANY Survivors on the short-wall of the jungle gym. The game cannot be an entire match of 50/50 TL's. Nor can it be ######### filler pallets that you get hit at unless you stun the Killer.
reliably get hits on jungle gyms as legion? I think there is difference between getting hits because the survivor is playing bad and does not know how to use the tile properly vs the killer getting hits because the killer wins a particular mindgame. M1 legion should not be getting downs at dropped jungle gym pallets. that is learn to play issue.
@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3583922#Comment_3583922
A god loop is anything that the killer is forced to break and can’t mindgame. Jungle gyms are a common example, with some outlier killers that can make plays on them. The only time I get hit there as a survivor is if I have a total brain fart. And yes I understand it’s asym, but shouldn’t the killer have an advantage in the chase for that reason? It’s 1v4.
I agree with your position. the main survivors that win are survivor that pre-run properly away from generators to run-forward and the survivor that optimize loops in such a way that it makes said pallets safe. in an ideal dbd, the killer should not be breaking pallets, only going around them and mindgaming slides to get a 50/50. It is just historically, dbd has had more safe loops then unsafe loops so killer got used to breaking pallets due to loop design in the game.
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3583957#Comment_3583957
If we are gonna remove all decent loops and make them mind-gameable all top tier killers will get good nerfs for make them balanced because even now, with these strong loops they are doing so fine.
And ofcourse, Bloodlust exists as well. If we are gonna make it whoever played better type loops, then this mechanic need to go as well. Survivor should not be punished when killer lost all mind-games and played poorly.
the strong killer balance the strong loop design in the game. they either do that by making the super strong pallet into non-instant break or they break pallet but create a mindgame between the loop. it is debatable in what context killer anti-loop is fair vs unfair but general idea killers with good chase capacity can handle maps with 5 jungle gyms on every map. Bloodlust itself is somewhat of a problematic mechanic because it doesn't help weak killer mindgame safe jungle gym pallets but it progressively grants guaranteed hits at weak pallets where killer does not not need help.
@Xernoton said:
1 or 2 god pallets aren't an issue. It sucks that you have to break them with no way to play around them (other than a few niche scenarios) but once they're gone, they're gone. Meaning, the strongest resources of the map are used up and you only have to care about the rest of the (hopefully) weaker pallets.
However, I very much agree, that a good portion of all structures are not very interactive from a killer's POV. No matter what you do, you can't get a hit anyway, so why even bother mind gaming? This is the case with some of the pallets on the Azarov maps, some main buildings, shack, jungle gyms, the excavator on Ormond and more. In these cases, you'll find most killers without oppressive chase powers simply running after you with not much thought put into it because it's more efficient than spending time on a mind game, that won't work anyway.
However, you also need some of these busted loops because inexperienced survivors can't play around the more fair structures (like TL walls). And if they get hit on every loop, then obviously, they won't have fun and no incentive to improve. After all, why would you play a game that is not enjoyable? This would dramatically decrease the appeal for newer players.
This is quite the dilemma, honestly. In low MMR, this is just fine. But the higher you go, the more problematic it becomes.
i disagree. every single god pallet/safe pallet that killer is forced to break is an issue. this is because survivor can use early safe god pallets as means to delay killer in early game with no counter-play. The result is that killer loses 3 generators in first chase because survivor ran to the 1-2 safe god pallets on the map and held-w after pallet break. a common request by killer is to add corrupt intervention base-kit but issue is not objective. it is god pallets that allow said objective to be rushed because killer cannot change outcome in early game when the survivor's first impulse is to run to god pallets/safe loops.
this is also why some people have said to nerf "Window of Opportunity". the problem is that nerfing window will not change the fact that those pallet are there. survivor will still run to these pallets regardless whether window of opportunity exists or not. As a result, my opinion is that safe loops and god pallet are responsible for killer's bad early game.
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your problem with the perk is that killer that use the perk tunnel? Is that not a problem with the game having no incentives spreading hooks rather then the perk? this seems like faulty logic to nerf the perk. health-states are too strong for most m1 killers. this perk creates semblances of balance for m1 killers. weakening the perk leaves m1 killer with no mobility gap-close to lose to hold-w forward survivor that pre-drop pallets and heal too effectively.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3583803#Comment_3583803
Yes. Having a simple to pick up power doesn't mean the power lacks complexity, is my entire point. Blight and Wesker both have very simple powers to pick up and understand, yet Blight possibly has the most complex power in the game. Its nuance feeds into just about every aspect of loop generation, realm uniqueness, and game sense. As opposed to a killer like Freddy, whose power is very straightforward (and actually the opposite of complex), and lacks nuance or skill expression.
he is not talking about how to use the ability. he is talking about complexity. complexity refer to how many parts connect to the ability. for example, trapper has 1 ability. Placing traps. The pig has 3 abilities. Crouch, Ambush dash and Reverse bear traps. he is claiming that people do not play killer with multiple abilities. I don't think complexity is what makes people choose x killer over y killer. It is whether multiple abilities work together and whether they're fun to use and powerful. Nuance =/ complexity. Blight has simple ability but his 1 ability has many functions. the many functions is nuance. I think it would be more correct to say that killer with high nuance are more popular then killer with low nuance.
@just_one_player said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3583777#Comment_3583777
wow, this one about recharging is new to me, I really didn't know about it. But I don't believe that this alone puts it on Freddy's level of 1001 details.
I get what you mean, and I think the most fun killers, in general, are the ones with simple powers. See the popular cast: Blight, Legion, Wraith, Wesker, Huntress. Wesker may be a point of discussion, but the others undeniably have extremely simple powers, without an absurd amount of detail. In the opposite side, the unfun cast tipically has powers with several details, conditions and states.
I think a lot of unfun killer for killer side are generally killer's with poor balance or low nuance/undesired gameplay. For example, the hag is unpopular killer because her gameplay is based around proxy camping and defending hooks. the killer have no desire to play like that so hag remains as unpopular killer. It is also that proxy camping hooks is ineffective strategy because if hag hooks a survivor, survivor will ignore the hook timer for 1:45 and rush gens. Hag has no chasing capacity as 110% so she cannot adapt to playing offensively. She only has defence and her defence is predictable. as a result, unpopular killer.
Twin''s has an gameplay issue where survivor that downed by victor from far away makes you spend time walking to pick up slug to hook survivors. In order rectify the issue, you need to slug. How effective is slugging and bleeding out survivors in dbd in 4vs1? Not effective at all. Very time consuming. as a result, nobody wants to play twins because slugging gameplay is completely undesired.
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@just_one_player said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3583653#Comment_3583653
Both apply an passive effect (sleeping and infected), but Freddy has several activation or deactivation conditions, while there is a single way to activate (virulent bound) and deactivate (vaccine) the infected effect. The number of survivors under the effect sleeping impacts the teleportation cooldown, while the number of infected survivors don't afecct in nothing; and in addition, Freddy has intermittent invisibility when the survivor is awake and oblivious when the survivor is sleeping, while Wesker has just a 40 m terror radius. Although Wesker has conditions on removing health status when a survivor is hitted by a virulent bound, I can't see, in terms of complexity, this being equal to Freddy's power. In the first half of the first macth in which I played Wesker, I was able to understand his power. To fully understand Freddy's power, you need to play against him at least once. He is a low-efficiency Swiss army knife, a bunch of details that don't help in practically anything.
The number of survivors under the effect sleeping impacts the teleportation cooldown, while the number of infected survivors don't afecct in nothing.
your second sentence on wesker is wrong. the number of survivor infected decrease wesker's virulent bound cooldown by 0.5 seconds per survivor. this is mirror towards freddy tp cooldown. your saying it is so easy... yet it is not easy. this is what i mean by complexity of freddy and wesker is of similar level.
Wesker is getting played because he is strong. Many people that play wesker also enjoy playing wesker which indicates that he is fun. Wesker is average/high in term of effort to learn ratio. freddy is opposite. He is one of weakest killer in the game. He is not fun to play, like he is 1/10 killer is fun from my subjective opinion. The effort to learn his kit is non-existent. within 5 games, you will think you mastered freddy.
Like I said Fun ->Strength->Difficulty to learn are ordered list to what makes a player decide to play or not play said killer. these ideas are linked. For example, if you find the killer hard to play, you might not find them strong. By not finding them strong, you might not have fun playing said killer because you are losing games constantly.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Now with upcoming MFT nerf, i am seeing more people are using these 2 perks. Probably people are trying to adept new meta.
Your thoughts are on these perks? They are fine or you dislike these perks as well?
I feel like MFT nerf will not go through or will get buffed in some way. I think dramaturgy and Lithe might become more popular but I am not sure.
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@just_one_player said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3583448#Comment_3583448
There is a difference between skill ceiling and killer power , and I explained in the post what was defined as complexity, i dont will explaing again because it's was very clear. Freddy has a complex power and low skill ceiling, Blight has a simple power with a very high skill ceiling. You treat the skill ceiling as complexity, which is not wrong, complexity could mean many things, but it differs from what I defined in the post, so you argue about something I didn't write. If what you meant is that what we need is more killers with a high skill ceiling, I completely agree, but I reiterate that this is not what I defined as complex in the post.
"The most popular killers tend to fall in this category: easy to pick up, very hard to master." That's why I wrote that killers with simple powers are the most popular, but I disagree that the most difficult killers are the popular ones, popularity encompasses both killers with simple powers and a simple skill ceiling, such as Legion and Wraith; but also those with simple powers and a high skill ceiling, like Blight and Wesker.
i am confused. why is wesker in your words a simple power and freddy a complex power? Wesker's power has same level or more complexity as freddy. freddy has two active abilities and 1 passive status effect. Wesker has 1 active ability, 1 item ability and 1 passive.
In my opinion, the killer that are popular are popular because of 3 parameters. these 3 parameters are strength, fun and effort to learn to reward Ratio. Wesker and Blight are played because they're strength is high. Often when the Strength is high, it leads to killer having more fun but this is not always true. Some killer can be fun without being strong. Legion, Nemesis and Wraith are perfect examples of killers that are not strong but have huge fun factor for many people. A lot of players play these 3 killers because they have low effort to learn to reward ratio and are fun but not necessary strongest. they score high on other two categories for strength to not matter as much. After that, there is something in the middle. Huntress and Xeno is what I would describe as the middle. They're fun to play, somewhat strong and have a medium effort to learn to reward ratio.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3582961#Comment_3582961
I’m far from “ruffled” lol. You’re a stranger on a video game forum.
I never said MFT was giving ME issues. I don’t want it nerfed. But I’m not going to ignore how strong it is when used by experienced survivors.
i get that it was strong when an experienced survivor used it. I had many 3 gen chases if killer over-committed to me but current one does not make me want to use it.
After playing some games on PTB, the best way i found to trigger MFT was to put med-kit with stypic agent, Off the record and MFT and run at the killer. this is so impractical to get consistent value out of the perk that you have to go out of your way to use it.
@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3582919#Comment_3582919
so getting maybe an extra loop at tiles with MFT is broken but getting fewer is balanced. lmao your bias is showing. where are all the scientists explaining how BHVR has precisely balanced loops and maps around base speeds and anything that changes those completely breaks the game? oh right, those goal posts moved the day the MFT nerf was announced, and now multiple killer haste perks/add ons/powers are fine...
I mean bloodlust exists. getting few loops has been a mechanic in the game for long time now.
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@Paternalpark said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3581053#Comment_3581053
So dark theory is unmanageable then?
I'm not defending mft specifically, I'm asking to buff other perks in line with mft. There will always be a meta if there are only 10 good perks for either side.
And the meta shouldn't be so subtle that it's barely noticeable.
I preferred ds and unbreakable days because survivors wouldn't just hide away all match.
Everyone just wants to play optimally and for survivor it's spread out gens and don't interact with killer. With killer is just tunnel weak link.
i agree with your post. MFT change killed the perk for me. The player-base seems want to perks to be subtle that the perks have low impact. funny you mention DS. I think DS will go back to meta after MFT gets changed.
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@SkeletalElite said:
We've seen time and time again as long as there are strong regression/slowdown perks that work together the strongest killer meta build for just about any killer will be to use all those regression/slowdown perks together in the same build. Some of the earlier metas prior to there being so many good slowdowns didn't really see this because the only good slowdowns were ruin and pop and those two didn't work at the same time, when both were used, pop was a backup for when ruin was gone.
As time has gone on though we've seen more powerful slowdown and regression perks added to the game that work in a variety of situations. "Forever Freddy" is probably the earliest instance of misery is caused by stacking all slowdowns, but It first started being prominent on all killers when pain res was added which worked with ruin and pop just fine. The absolute worst of this was the cob/oc/eruption/pop uber gen kicking meta. Individually the perks were generally fine or slightly overpowered at best, but playing against all of them together was absolutely miserable and got every one of those perks slaughtered.
I feel like as long as these kinds of perks stack the strongest builds will basically always be to use as many of them as you can as long as they are not complete garbage (like OC, CoB, and Ruin are now) and this inevitably leads to them being nerfed to trash because they are too strong together.
Imagine if sprint burst and BL and lithe and DH all had individual cooldowns, in order to be balanced each one would have to give drastically less distance and be usable less often but they'd still be the best build by virtue of the amount of time they give you all together and it would destroy and build creativity in the process.
If regression/slowdown perks had a mechanic similar to exhaustion where only one could be used, they could be balanced such that they are strong enough to stand on their own and not need to be balanced with all the other regression perks stacking with it.
I do not see it as a problem. with perk like jolt, pop, eruption and pain res, these perks only trigger when they survivor is put into dying state or is hooked. as a result, the regression is inherent situational because you can avoid triggering the perks by preventing the down.
Overcharge and COB has particular problem with their regression. It is that they do not require killer to get a down and there is no limit in their regression. normally with other regression perks, the killer has to play actively to get hooks/downs to trigger their effect. with overcharge and cob, they only need kick gens and closest gen together are easiest to kick.
because closest 3 gen prevent survivors from progressing the game from pushing survivor away from repairing generator or risk going down. the killer is winning in regression compare progression because uptime for survivor repairing is not 100%. it is on/off means that sometimes survivor can lose progression vs regression war. in 4:1 asymmetric, the survivor is never suppose lose 4:1 regression vs progression war. if they lose the war, than the killer can hold game hostage for 60+ minutes.
What i would say in regard these perks is that they need limit in how much you can regress a single generator otherwise these perks will become too strong or non-existent in regular gameplay.
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-action speed perks are somewhat different problem. the main thing about these perks is that they do not have good scaling per perk slot. They need have certain threshold to reach effectiveness. I would say the threshold they have to hit to reach effectiveness is following:
5-10% -> weak
15% -> Medium strength
20%-25%-> High strength
30% -> Max strength(too strong)
Anything above 30% is too strong. If you have many stacking -action speed perks, they become too overwhelming to play against because the higher number you get to. the more potent the effect is. that is why forever freddy was so strong. freddy had dream world was 2% from swinging chains so he had tier 5 thanatophobia. he also had individual -action speed in jump rope was originally 9% later changed to 4%(swinging chains was 3% originally). if you account jump robe, we could say he had roughly tier 6 thanatophobia.
Note when I say tier 6 thana, i am giving approximate average in strength and not exact values of how much -action speed is in play. 7%/14%/21%/28%. these are really high numbers for -action speed. The counter to reverse the -action speed was to heal but sloppy butcher stacked action speed of healing. with it, you had -27%/-34/-41%/-48%. Looking at 3 people injured, you get 25 seconds altruistic heal. Co-op healing past 25 second is really really long for survivor. you are almost incentives to not heal because two reasons. the first is that killer is more likely to get a hit in 25 seconds then you are to heal injury. the second is that it takes less time for killer catch-up with their 4.6 m/s then healing. the current catch-up is 20 seconds. this is means that in order for survivor to survive vs killer that is actively in a chase, you need to use pallets to get health-states. pallet are limited resource. you will run out of pallets with 25 second healing.
The good news is that survivor do not have obligation to heal. -healing action speed can have no limit however artificially, the limit in which survivors become exposed from -action speed on healing is -40%. -40% healing is very close to being exposed for getting hit once. the generators on other hand are primary objective. anything above 30% with 100% up-time is way too strong. As result I am not entirely sure how you balance this sequence of perks. If i was to try approach to make these perks viable, I will make it so that there is limit of -30% repair speed so you cannot stack Gift of pain+thana+hex:penti+plaything.
After that I would just buff those perks until they are individual worth using as gen defence.
Gift of pain has obvious problem of being Scourge hook and -action speed only works after being healed. make it work when your injured.
Thana should be 5/10/15/20 -action speed for healing and generators
Dying light should be 4% with it is associated drawbacks removed. the obsession should build stacks and they should be immune to the effect.
Hex:penti works fine as it is but it is hex perk and hex perk do not have much lifespan so the uptime will never be particular high.
-Action speed perks and unlimited regression perks are most tricky perks to balance because of their explosive nature to be useless or too strong.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
To me MfT is no longer op perk. But it's still good perk.
It will be healthy perk against tunneller killers which is fine. But i see biggest problem here:
What is stopping me to use Off the Record + MfT + Lithe and bodyblock the killer after unhooked. I can force killer to hit me and i can put killer into very annoying chase.
Now i belive MfT is healthy perk when used as intended. But i know community. This perk is new tool to bully killer for SWF teams. So i don't think hate against this perk will be done.
the killer has no obligation to chase MFT if you bodyblock him. your effectiveness to bodyblock is same with just OTR. the obvious synergy is DH but DH does not work on first hook anymore so the synergy will feel worse because MFT was good at carrying the first chase. now it just feels like an optional perk to extend DH but DH itself is good enough when you trigger it so I don't see why i want to use it. it is spending perk slot for minor bonus. it is like... is it worth it at this point?
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@ChaosWam said:
I only really hate her design and lore. Personally I have no problems going against her now knowing how to deal with her drones and accepting when to take the L.
I'd still like her haste bonuses removed though. I think she has enough now with the hindered and injure/deep wound mechanic.
if your going remove anything, remove hindered. haste is only consistent effect she has in the chase.. to me, it seems that you don't accept losses because your asking for negative changes.
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@TetroXyD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3579602#Comment_3579602
It's not a matter of knowing how to get there, the issue is that the survivor is literally one step away from you, and you can't do anything.
It's just absurd.
that is old safe spot, you have to follow survivor and drop down. hawkin is 1:1 copy of what it was many years ago. the loops on hawkin are not as bad people say they were for survivor. in fact a lot of them are really strong. that spot right there is great example.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3578918#Comment_3578918
Uhhhh, very much disagree.
UW is actually significantly better than MFT.
MFT is by far strongest perk in the game. there is nothing on killer side that even comes close to MFT power-level. tracking is decent bonus to have on killer side but it is not game-changing bonus that makes you win the match on the spot.
MFT for skilled survivor can produce long game-winning chases if survivor is good enough at looping. you can lose games on the spot as killer from extended chases vs MFT. This does not mean that killer has no counter or gameplay towards the perk but the fact that strong loop setups can sometimes discourage you from pursuing the the chase showcases its strength. You still have to be like top-level looper to produce game-winning chases with MFT which is why I would still consider in the realm of balanced.
Contrast this with MFT where Survivors need to be experienced and moderately skilled to get any significant value and you can't be playing against certain Killers who aren't affected by it.
every single killer is affected by MFT. the question is how much you are affected by a perk and whether you can still win the match regardless if the perk is in play.
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@Jay_K said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/NJ530JRC3ZHQ/image.png
This could have nothing to do with a new chapter.
Could this instead be a clue towards a Myers rework being announced with the patch notes tomorrow? Given that the knife missing is very similar to the kitchen knife that Myers uses it would make a lot of sense that this is indicating that this is a new rework and not a new chapter tease.
that does not look like myer's. that looks like legion. 4 knives? 1 from each member?