Chekita
Chekita
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I dont have those same internal reactions, but I do appreciate killer more for the variety of characters, powers and perks. But I also get much more stressed with it bc I find it harder to win or to have a good match overall most of the time if playing on red ranks. On lower ranks if I need to rank up again it is pretty stale, bc it's too easy (unless it is right after rank down that mixes ranks), tending to look like when I have SWF matches as survivor, but without any joy of talking to friends and laughing when we overcome the killer.
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Sometimes it makes the game stale and not interesting, specially camping joined with tunneling. If you played on the other side a little more you would probably notice this, it's not very fun when you go to hook and wait most of the match looking around.
It still a valid strategy, but I try to not rely on it for personal reasons when playing Killer. It surely makes the game much harder in some instances, but I prefer doing it that way.
I still camp, but not always, if the gates are open, since you don't actually have generators to patrol your only objective is to catch other players trying to save and so on. Some times not even then.
If you want to camp and tunnel always it's your prerrogative, it is part of the game, but don't waste your time trying to convince people to like it, they won't.
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Nah, I preffer that people can use those perks and have a rework on DS immunity. Something like if another player is hooked the time is shaved off some percentage during match and if the gates are open the time is lost if another player is downed. Something much more worth testing.
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@megswifey said:
Survivor main and meghead here! I haven't seen much of a difference to be honest, except for more tunneling and a bit of camping, which isn't rare but still not too common. I have had team wipe outs and pretty intense chases, but bloodlust being gone seems to make a very small difference. I also play killer, and I genuinely forgot BL was a thing until the patch came out talking about the test lol!
Conversely I played survivor and I usually play killer. In 14 matches I died 4 times. Usually I die much more than this, specially because I lost rank for not touching survivor for a long time and solo queues tend to have a lower survival rate for me if playing with brown or green ranks.
As for the numbers:
14 Matches.
Hooks/ Escapes/ (Killer Rank) -my rank-
2H/4E/ (17) 11; 0H/4E/ (14 - DC) 11; 4H/4E (14)11; 0H/4E (14-DC) 11; 8H/1 E (12 Nurse, 1 suicide) 10; 7H/3E (13) 10; 3H/3E (15) 10;
10H /0E (14) 10; 3H/4E (14) 9; 12H/0E (10 - Freddy, best match) 9 ; 6H/ 4E (gave hatch to last Rank12 Spirit) 9; 3H/4E (14) 9; 7H/4E (4)8;
4H/0E (13 Camping Hag with Ebony) 8.
From those there are 2 DCs that the killer gave up because he thought he couldnt win, but I still counted, same way as in two of them a person suicided on hook (only put one there, dont remember which doctor it was that another person commited suicide on hook). The best match was against Freddy that hooked everyone 3 times without camping or tunneling, at least on my opinion. Personally I never ranked up so fast by solo queue. For other people with more experience in survivor certainly this is a piece of cake, but my personal experience is that it became much more simple to hold killer for a long period of time.
One of the matches I held an Oni for pratically the entire match and another that we died against Doctor I held him for something around a minute (preschool) and the team mate kept over the hatch without doing the generator.
Will post a link to public screenshots in the case of the doubters.
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198011550960/screenshots/
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@CustomerService said:
23 matches, we don't know rank, we don't know perks, we don't know if alone or SWF.
Also, 23 matches out of 20.000 that are played daily.
Completely useless data.
Meanwhile, on the data that shows 80% death rate : "ThATz d0ezNt MeAnnN AnYThIng... DEVZ SaiD..."
Which data, from what ranks? The data from here, the ones I remember they are pretty old and there is no such thing as overall 80% death rate. If you clarify that information with a link it can help illuminate your point, otherwise ppl will think you are taking the numbers from your head. If you are talking about pick rate and kill rate of singular killers that is not the same as survival rate or kill rate in any ranks, there is a separate graph for that.
Only one that I know from this site is this one:
@Peanits said:
Earlier this week, we asked you what statistics you would like to see. Since then, we have collected data on some of the most popular requests and designed some fancy graphics for them. There are a few things to note:
- This data does not include the recent PTB.
- Data involving rank was collected shortly before a rank reset (April 1st to April 7th).
- These are very general statistics, so use caution before drawing any conclusions.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/719/CPIDC1XE8JBT.jpg
Average Party Size
This is the overall average, between all ranks and platforms, of how many other Survivors players are queuing up with. More than half of the total Survivors are playing solo, while only 3-6% are playing in a full Survive With Friends group. This is based on the group size out of the total number of matches.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/771/II0BH5BS6HP0.jpg
Party Size Survival Rate
This is the average chance of Survival per Survivor depending on the size of the Survive With Friends group they are playing in. This is an average between all ranks on all platforms.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/270/X1L1JQEBEOMA.jpg
Survival Rate by Rank
This graph shows the average rate of survival per Survivor at any given rank, per platform. Please note: The data collected is using your rank after the match, so players who depipped from rank 1 down to rank 2 would appear as rank 2 for our purposes. This is likely the reason why you'll notice a large gap between the survival rate of rank 1 and rank 2: Players who survived were more likely to pip and maintain their rank, while those who died were more likely to depip and lose their rank.
This data was also collected between April 1st and April 7th, after the pipping thresholds were originally changed but before they were later tweaked to be more forgiving for Survivors. Because of that, the statistics at this rank are from a small sample size consisting solely of the best players that could maintain rank 1 with the strict pipping conditions.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/198/WJGATDU9GIYC.jpg
Average Game Length
This graph shows the average game length at any given rank for each platform. This is the time from the start of the match until the final Survivor either escapes or is sacrificed.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/103/8BOLFYNH0D9I.jpg
Most Popular Killer by Rank
This chart shows which Killer is the most popular depending on rank, per platform. For example, on PC from rank 1-4, nurse is the most popular Killer, while Hillbilly tends to be more popular from rank 5-12. The highest overall usage for any Killer at a given rank is the Nurse at rank 1, coming in at 22.39%.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/398/4A494UUNC0WZ.jpg
Highest and Lowest Kill Rates
This chart shows the deadliest (yellow) and least deadly (red) Killers per platform. These stats are an average for all ranks. Since there are four Survivors, a 50% kill rate equates to two Survivors escaping and two Survivors dying.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/928/2YVQMEWUS0KN.jpg
Most Used Perks (Survivor)
This chart shows the most popular Survivor perks based on rank ranges between all platforms. We decided not to display ranks 13-20 as they tend to be more random (newer, lower ranked players tend to use whichever perks they have rather than picking what they want specifically). The numbers displayed are the percentage that perk is used of all perks used at that rank.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/781/T8VE1J9V3G07.jpg
Most Used Perks (Killer)
This chart shows the most popular Killer perks based on rank ranges between all platforms. Like the Survivor perks above, we decided not to show ranks 13-20. The number displayed are a percentage of the total perks used at that rank range.
Is there something that confuses you? Maybe you'd like to know a more precise number on one of these stats? I'll be doing a live Q&A in the official Dead by Daylight Discord server tomorrow at 2PM EST.
If you are not in the Official Discord server, you can join here: https://discord.gg/549m9NT
The Q&A will take place in the #game-discussion channel.
From the one here rank 1 on pc reaches 80% survival rate. There is never 80% death rate.
The survival rate from rank 20s is around 32% and that is from august 2019. That would be 68% death rate if you will. Not even rank 20s reach that absurd number. Don't spread numbers unless you will back them up.
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@thisisntmax said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1766544#Comment_1766544
it's almost like that will make for more interesting chases and weed out the pepegs from higher ranks. now all we need is emblems to be harder and double depips back.
It won't weed pepegs for a simple reason: matchmaking. It could though, make MORE survivors that dont know how to loop to get into red ranks. That sure is something I'm looking forward to.
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@xenotimebong said:
I escaped almost all of my survivor matches and 4Kd almost all of my killer matches today, and the ones I didn’t 4K were either me really messing up or me being merciful.
I think most people are just not very good at this game tbh. If you’re a survivor that can loop even half way decently and do a gen you’re better than like 90% of the survivor player base, and if you’re a killer that doesn’t just hold W across the map like a dog on its lead you’re better than 90% of killers.
I’m not really sure what to think of this experiment to be honest. Some games feel different and others feel about the same.
Sure is interesting how most people that comment on forums have a perfect score on both ends, survivor and killer, but most of the population in the game is not like that. Not saying you are lying, but surely a lot of people seem to be lying on forums if you follow that logic.
I wished people were a tad more honest and little more humble with their own self image, but that seems to be asking too much on forums, since people just want to win an argument not to present things to discuss.
If you are that kind of person you would have to agree that most players won't be like that and not necessarily the game is ballanced around that as well. Also, that many people probably are faking their so called skill when talking about this subject.
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@AhoyWolf said:
Sometimes you just get tunneled, it can happen more times in a row, I got tunneled 3 times in a row even before the bloodlust announcement was made public.
There are a few valid reasons why Killers tunnel if it's not just because they feel like it.
If the Killer is low on gens or at the end game prepare to get tunneled most likely.
BL announcement was public from the moment anyone entered the game. If you entered the game you would see a big message stating there was no BL. There is no such thing as a period where the loss of BL wasn't accessible to players.
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@thisisntmax said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1766544#Comment_1766544
it's almost like that will make for more interesting chases and weed out the pepegs from higher ranks. now all we need is emblems to be harder and double depips back.
I'm all for double depips. Still, that won't make much difference if you keep getting matched with much lower ranks than yours.
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I am please to say that the game doesn't DC consistenly every day I play anymore. Actually, after the latest patches the only situations it disconnects rarely is during loading screen. But very rarely.
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@DudelPumaAce said:
i am mainsurviver and play killer (red ranks) sometimes, i am a ok killer and make many 4k before bl and now after bl, I dont even notice it in game, the way the game is played is still the same, if noobis cant manage anything without bl, they just stop with killer gameplay ...
Maybe in this case you could post your killer matches along with the posting of this thread to make a comparison:
@MrPenguin said:
My thoughts about the experience are at the bottom if that's all you want to see.
Mostly just raw data, just posting here so everyone can see if they care for some reason. Added some notes and thoughts as well. Wrote down the outcomes of all my matches today. Bit of a long read if you want everything.
Focused on the survivor side today, played how I normally do. Will be busy tomorrow so hopefully I can test the killer side before the experiment ends. Killer ranks were a little varied, as per usual, but the performances were fairly consistent for the most part. At most was in a duo for games. Most games seemed played normally by both sides as far as I could tell, but no way to really know 100%.
Quick data (unless I messed up):
- Average kills per game: 1.13
- Average hooks per game: 3.95
- Kills in Order: 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 0, 3, 0 ,1, 0, 0, 2, 0, 0, 0, 4, 0, 2, 4, 1, 4, 0, 2.
- Hooks in order: 3, 2, 5, 3, 3, 4, 3, 4, 4, 4, 3, 3, 0, 4, 2, 8, 3, 4, 4, 3, 10, 5, 7.
Format: Map
Killer - Kills - Hooks - personal Result - Possible extra details
1) Preschool
Clown - 0k - 3 hooks - Gate Escape
2) Haddonfield
Wraith - 0k -2 hooks - Gate Escape
3) Rotten fields
Slinger - 1k - 5 hooks -Gate Escape
4) Thompson House
Hag - 1k - 3 hooks - Gate Escape
5) Groaning Storehouse
Wraith - 1k - 3 hooks - Gate Escape - Main Building is disgusting with no BL it seems, so everyone just ran there for chase.
6) Temple Of Purgation
Hag - 0K - 4 hooks - Gate Escape
7) Gas Heaven
Freddy - Mori 3K - 3 hooks - Hatch Escape - didn’t get funbus :(
8) Badham
Trapper - 0K - 4 hooks - Gate Escape - Not the best trapper around
9) Hawkins
Hillbilly - 1k - 4 hooks - Gate Escape
10) Fractured Cowshed
Wraith - 0k - 4 hooks - Gate escape
11) Ironworks - Legion - 0k - 3 hooks - Gate Escape
Upper floor is gross to no one's surprise, survivors were smart enough to split up on gens.
12) The Game (offering)
Mirror Myers - 2k - 3 hooks - sacrificed - Death by first hook Camp with NoED, Bill was tunneled and camped as well till death
13) Haddonfield
Hillbilly - 0k - 0 hooks - "Escape" due to killer DC - Killer DC'd after 2 chases with no hits
14) Saloon
Plague - 0k - 4 hooks - Gate Escape - The saloon itself seemed pretty strong, so of course everyone bolted there anytime they got chased.
15) Badham
Trapper - 0k - 2 hooks - Gate Escape - Killer gave up when 2 gens were left
16) Rotten fields
Forever Freddy - 4k - 8-9 hooks - Sacrificed - Got a red rank Potatodette who got sacrificed when only 1 gen was done, got downed very fast and got tunneled. Only 6K points on her if that helps paint a picture at all. The last 3 of us got all the way to 1/2 of a gen left before the game ended. If it wasn't forever Freddy 2 or 3 of us might have still escaped maybe.
17) Blood Lodge
Doctor - 0k - 3 hooks - Gate Escape
18) Badham
Plague - 2k - 4 hooks - Sacrificed - Me and another survivor Left by the duo teammates on first hook while they ran out :(
19) Ormond
Blight - Mori 4k with tunnel off hook on everyone except the last two - Mori'd - Gates powered by end of game
20) Badham
Freddy - 1k - 3 hooks - Gate Escape - Tunneled Meg out the game
21) Badham
Forever Freddy - 4K - 10 hooks - Sacrifice - Another game with Forever Freddy and we had a Nea doing really dumb plays like sitting behind the killer crouched while injured while they're hooking someone else. One of our teammates also went down and hooked twice back to back greeding for the same gen. Me and the other survivor died on second hook with 1 gen left.
22) Badham
Pyramid Head - 0k - 5-6 hooks - Gate Escape - should've focused targets better if he wanted better results. Unfortunately they played "nice".
23) Grim Pantry
Spirit - 2K - 7 hooks - Gate escape - The spirit wasn't very good, but she's not really affected by BL anyway so it's not like it really matters.
Thoughts so far:
I usually survive more than I die but I think this is a little ridiculous. Even my rando teammates are getting out more often. Most of the survivor deaths are from tunnels/camps as well as you can probably tell by the hook amounts if that matters to you. You can run killers so much longer even on some of the common tiles. Holding W and tile chaining is also much stronger. I thought removing BL was going to be an overall negative but even I'm a little surprised.
The Killer side seems to be really impacted by this in a very negative way. The map design and overall balance is appearing to be not where it needs to be to be thinking about removing bloodlust completely. Could do with leaving in just Tier 1 however and taking out 2 and 3. I'd still they rather test things then just throw them out, so that's at least a positive from this whole thing. But there are other issues that really need to be addressed first imho besides BL. Namely the maps and loops need to be better if they want BL out the game asap.
However, I will see how further games play out. Right now it's not looking good. Definitely noticing a big difference in games, it's much easier to loop.
On a side note, one of my friends has also been playing survivor, they aren't the best but they are ok. Usually they get sacrificed pretty regularly, about as much as they escape if not more. They've been playing today and are surviving much much more. Take that as you will.
it's been a long day, so I'll probably be turning in soon. Hope this interest someone. If not well, nothing lost I guess.
He is posting all his matches and according to his account surviving became much easier. But adding information to the discussion would be constructive to compare.
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Sure. Why would you be worried about what happens to "bad killers" in the first place? Maybe because you can't even get away from bad killers? I don't know. I think that is much more telling than people complaining. People will always complain if something affects them, a little or a lot.
I think this will affect very little high skilled killers and hight tier killers and affect more lower skill killers and tiers. They still have the right to oppose a decision, whether or not they are good or bad. Sure, I think they could learn without it, but even the devs recognize some changes to maps were necessary for that to start and there are still plenty of areas that were not changed and good survivors here and there saying their matches became easier because of that. If that is to stay afterwards I will respect it and adapt, but I don't think this attitude is constructive of name calling and shaming when everyone that is in the game has the right to play it and learn.
Maybe this is something that will only truly affect people that should learn otherwise. I don't really know. When it becomes set in stone we will know for sure after more time without it. I think people are too quick to judge with only 1 or 2 days of gameplay and no access to the data.
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@Dennis_van_eijk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1767580#Comment_1767580
Well that is your opinion which I respect.
But you focus to much on bloodlust that you start relying on it.
Which was a plaster fix to make up for an imbalance and many strong loops there were.
Yes there is still an unbalance between survivor and killer.
But the loops are shorter and unsafe, again not all there are still strong ones.
About being beneficial of breaking pallets.
That is exactly what I said, does a survivor move away from a safe pallet?
You don't break it.
Does he stay at a safe pallet?
Break it.
If there is bloodlust and as killer you have it?
I throw a pallet down especially if it is a safe pallet, and I will force you to break it.
Cause i won't move away from it untill I see you starting the animation.
So you can have bloodlust 3 and i make sure there is little chance I take a hit.
You managed to hit?
I get a sprint burst to a next loop an you lose your bloodlust.
But doing so, relying heavily on bloodlust, means you are allready in a losing situation and spend way to much time on 1 survivor.
And remember it is a 1v4 game, unless you camp and rely on over altruistic survivors or noed.
Some killers do that and that is their choice.
Again, I play both sides as rank 1 and whenever I play killer I seriously only hit bloodlust very rarely.
Even when I hit bloodlust it is very very short, whether I down or hit the survivor or because I break the pallet.
I never rely on bloodlust to get a survivor, but trying to force them in mistakes which they often do.
Now I really don't blame you if you do rely heavily on bloodlust, but you must remember that it was only a forced option because of the amount of safe loops and the huge amount of pallets on the map.
Which has all been tumbed down in size and amount.
That is on reworked maps ofcourse, but pallets are less than there were even on none reworked maps.
Again this is my opinion about bloodlust as I might have a different playstyle, maybe more optimal who knows, than you have.
And there is nothing wrong with that.
Whether or not you agree with me i respect your opinion, but i think it has more to do with your playstyle than actually having bloodlust or not
Yes. I understand what you are saying. I'm just disagreeing because people seem to be assuming too much with BL3 in mind and with 2 hits as well. If you think about a killer like wraith or Legion that are M1 killers and supposedly more affected by lost of BL and look at the best loops in the game you will notice you will be forced to break chase when if you had BL 1 you could get them. Even if it's not much faster a little difference is difference enough (think when you got the person next to the gen and got 1 hit, then he went to a safe zone, now if you down them, 15 more is good enough).
Same thing happens for "play with your food" and similar effects. Time is of the essense for killer, thus, everything that shaves away time from killers affects them whether people want to recognize it or dont, claiming they never use BL. As an example, everyone can watch the tutorial from Scott Jund "Running tiles as a killer" (I watched many times before) and at the end, after breaking 2 pallets he enters BL 1 to catch up in one of the best loops of the game, one that never changed in the so called ballances of breakable walls.
Other than that I dont think some of those ballances are good as well. The ones with clear always opened doors, sure. Still think they are not good because some of them destroyed the loop altogether, but ok... others add a second layer of pallet as to say: "if you want to run this loop properly you are forced to break this", so it's more time shaved away and possibly one lost chase. It's better than not having them, but they don't seem like the best idea around.
One way or the other it will be more time shaved from killers. Could be simply to the players with lower skills? Sure, it could be. I don't think it is, but even assuming it is, it still affect them and that's a valid reason to oppose the change so far as I see it.
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As a killer I don't think that decision is because they are survivor sided, it's a decision that favors survivors, sure, but sometimes they also change things to favor killers as well. We have to acknowledge that. I don't think it is very constructive to go from that mindset even if they were "survivor sided".
I think it would be benefitial if they got rid of say, blood lust lvl 3 (or 2,3, or all), while they keep a close look on how the matches are faring. I think in this case the wrong decision would be to simply get rid of bloodlust after a quick test and not pay attention if the maps are really more ballanced as they said they are.
See, for instance, there are maps that never got the god windows of some main buildings (or god busses) that have a high survival rate. Many of those maps had no changes and some new like Midwitch have such a distance to cross it's not even fun. If they say bloodlust is not needed because there are a fair amount of maps that are survivor sided in the same way as there are the killer sided this is a wrong decision. First because of offerings, second because I don't think that claim is a true one and third because having maps that you are mostly decided to win or lose is already a bad design.
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@[Deleted User] said:
To be fair a lot of these games seems like inexperienced killers who were screwed by matchmaking...
To be fair you can't know both ways (and matchmaking is almost always screwed, unless you think it is was perfect before the weekend). You are just assuming as such because it is your point of view. He is playing a lot of matches, assuming every match is against inexperienced killers is a bit far fetched. Many experienced killers said plenty of times they are playing as if nothing was happening. If that indeed is true and those saying left and right they are so good killers, there should be enough of them playing to get a good sample.
I dont consider myself a good killer and I was playing yesterday. It didn't feel that different when I played eventually against purple ranks mixed in red ranks, they get destroyed. But I can't really say I got many matches to know. From the ones I played, most of them I got 1 k or 0 k, either way with Brutal killer as result of most of them because I got many hooks (thats on red ranks only). One of them was 2k and another 3k. None of them on red ranks were 4k. It is easier to know things about the matches if they are recorded for sure. But assuming they are this and that...
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Well imo... sorry. I don't think the same way you do. It's not always a mistake to leave a pallet as a killer, specially if you had Blood lust, without BL as I mentioned before, you will be forced to break more pallets.
First, you dont break pallets that are unsafe and you can mindgame. I know you know that, but you said "it's a mistake" in a broad stroak maybe bc of the heat of the argument or bc you didnt remember it.
Sometimes is much more benefitial to break a pallet, sometimes it's not. Sometimes you can fake breaking a pallet and move on to catch the person using BL or even without. The time you waste breaking they will be further away from you. As such, is not always benefitial to break a pallet, period.
That is what I was talking about. Sure, you can break it afterwards, but that was what I meant by not breaking them. I was talking about the chase, not afterwards.
Edit: It seems like you mistook what I said of not breaking pallets, for leaving them forever in the map. I dont understand how you got to that conclusion, but saying you dont leave pallets behind without breaking because it's a mistake it's much more confusing. Specially when you acknowledge there are times you aren't supposed to break them.
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@senki527 said:
maybe stop complaining and adapt.
bloodlust is not necessary anymore after all the map changes. no more infinite loops and reduced amount of pallets on every map
Not all maps changed, that is simply a fact. And there are several set ups that will become fairly more safe or a safe zone without BL (forcing to break chase more times than usual). I dont think it's impossible to adapt to this. But I also think the other way around is possible as well. If players on red ranks that I usually play against can win against BL, so the others as well. The quest to adapt is a too ways street.
If they decide BL to be gone I will respect and adapt, but it's ridiculous to state it won't affect the game. If it doesnt affect the game in anyway it wouldnt have been introduced to begin with. The only difference is that this time it is something that affects killers negatively, if it affected survivors in the same way they would complain. That is normal, that is nothing strange about complaining if you present good reasons to complain.
Stop complaining about people complaining if they present good reasons. Best you tackle their reasoning, not the fact they are complaining. People will complain if they dont like something and that is normal.
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As a clown I'm not having that much difficulty because his power already resets Bloodlust. Actually I'm having more wins with him than other killers on red ranks, but it could be due to several factors.
I think the problem is as CLAUDETTEINABUSH stated, but I dont think that affects only the lower ranks for a simple reason, even if it doesnt affect in the same manner the red ranks, it still affect them. I play on red ranks but I dont consider myself as a good killer, but I try. One way or another I end up reaching rank 1 all the time. I dont have 5k hours like some people I play against and I feel this affect me as well because you force many more chases to be a break chase when they could have gone for 15s more with a down.
People will say: "but if you wait for BL you are doing something wrong". Not necessarily. If waiting 10-15s more gives you a down, that's two or more survivors that need to mobilize to save a pal, while if you always need to break chase, that is mostly 1 person that will heal and most of the time they won't even heal and simply go to another generator. So, sometimes it's better to lose 15s more and gain an advantage of more people focused on saving a person, than save 15s and lose 1 generator of progress or more with all people engaged in generators. Without BL you are simply forced to break chase more times and pallets that could become mindgamable in 15s, become a must break and possibly a must break chase as well.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1767010#Comment_1767010
What are those "plenty of ways to stop the bloodlust build up"?
Those ways stop building up Bloodlust/remove it:
Using Killers Power
Breaking a Pallet
Walking as Survivor
Hitting a Survivor
Being out of Chase for some seconds
What exactly should a Survivor do at one of those Loops displayed? If the Killer is using their Power and misses, thats up to the Killer. Breaking a Pallet, if the Killer does not decide to break the Pallet once its thrown, there is nothing the Survivor can do at those short loops. Walking is the only thing they can do, but it is clearly no option.
And you will also not be able to break chase there.
Like, you say that Bloodlust should be there to compensate for Mistakes, but how is it fair that a Survivor can play a Tile without any failure, but the Killer still gets the hit, despite messing up that hard like seen in the video? Bloodlust is NOT there to compensate for Mistakes, it was originally a band-aid fix for Looping, but the problematic spots become less and less over time.
What you do on those short loops? You throw them trying to stun. Even if you can't you don't stay on them, you use them to connect to other loops, being windows or other pallets. The fact he didnt break that simple loop will be a problem for him when you go around that other loop and use the downed pallet again to go around. Some of them can be used that way.
One way or the other, survivors can't expect to simply put down all the pallets of the game straight away and win the game by simply doing that. Without BL that is a straight win. It's not a simple matter of reaching a safe area, many areas become safe areas so long as the survivor has a barely minimum of experience looping. There will be some loops that people will say: "just mindgame behind walls", etc. (1) That's not all loops, (2) against experienced survivors that can be ridiculously bad for you, while you moonwalk as a mastermind he is already in another part of the map frolicking 200m away from your moonwalk, simple.
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@Dennis_van_eijk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1767336#Comment_1767336
If the killer decides to not break the pallet and go around than that is up to him.
You can do that only in certain situations.
1. if the sur decide to keep running away even though the pallet loop is safe.
Than as killer you go around to catch up, and you will in that situation.
2. If it is an unsafe pallet loop.
For example on haddonsfield there is a pallet between a car and a tree.
When that pallet is dropped and the survivor decide to stay there, you will get him without bloodlust.
Just run around the tree and you'll catch up and the survivor has to make a decision which will never be in his favour.
As I said you need to identify what loops you can brute force and which you need to leave untill later.
Also as killer identity which survivor is the weakest and capitalise on that.
Get rid of him/her and make it harder for the rest.
Or leave him on the ground and you have 2 survivors not doing gens.
Chase another one and only 1 survivor is doing gens.
Best way to play this game is to play both sides and you will get better as you see both perspectives.
As survivor you will get better at looping and as killer you will understand which loops are strong and which weak.
Meaning you get to know what to do at each loop and how to counter it.
Like I said before, I play both sides and yes, survivor side is a walk in the park.
But as killer play smart and you'll see you won't need bloodlust that badly.
Beside, right now it is just a test.
Are there bigger problems than removing bloodlust?
Yes definitely.
For example, they should find a way to implement a good mmr system so people of the same skill level are matched with eachother.
What you are actually not thinking is that there are several other options to what you are mentioning.
First thing you should think is that not everything you imagine happen and second is that the fact that bloodlust is there, one way or the other, force the survivor to think in more than a simple decision. In the current system, without BL, if you find a safe loop there is no decision, you just stay on it forever and keep roling over the pallet at the right time. Fake going over and keep going around. With BL you are forced to use other loops and use loops as a set and to force killer to break pallets otherwise they will catch up.
Another thing is that bc killers will be forced to break more pallets the game will be overwhelmingly easier on safer zones bc they will be forced to break chase multiple times more than usual if they hope to win the game. So a chase that otherwise they would continue you will start, reach a 2,3 set of pallets and bye bye killer. That will always happen, without BL will happen much more.
If you recognize survivor as a walk in the park it doesnt make sense to make it easier, on the contrary. I dont think it's a walk in the park particularly, but it still has a much lower skill ceiling than killer and it's fairly easier than killer.
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@voorheesgt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1765262#Comment_1765262
I'm far from a Hag main. I'm testing the no bloodlust on 110 killers. That said I am versed as killer in general and can say 100% that level design has not been fixed enough to not need this mechanic.
Can attest to that as well. There are several minor loops that you can't throw with huntress, for instance, in auto haven and some others. Those minor loops become by themselves a safe zone without bloodlust because unless the survivor is a potato head he can simply hug the loop and continue to run around for a minute without ever being caught. One example of this is the tractor with the car. As a killer you can't even go around the car properly. It is possible to find a way to throw, but you will only get fairly bad survivors in that situation. Those are not a problem for Hag, but they certainly are for Huntress. That will force you to break chase many more times than necessary.
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@voorheesgt said:
I've played as toxically as possible. If the data shows SURVIVORS got better outcomes with it then they'll leave it alone.
Hopeful they really want to go in that direction. I don't know if they really are. In my humble opinion this is more about making it easier for the lower ranks yet again in a similar manner as it was for Ruin changes than actually noticing if surviors will get an overwhelming advantage. The phrases and justification are pretty close to the same. "Rewarding for not playing 'correctly' ", "Only affects inexperienced (bad) players". The jargons are usually the same.
The percentage of games at higher ranks is much lower than the overall. I don't think they will focus on particular groups. But then again, I'm dying to know if they will really divulge any of the results or details.
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1) Was it really as bad as you thought?
No.
2) Is it a mechanic that you think could be changed now due to the state of the game?
Yes.
3) How would you change it?
Tone it down to bloodlust 1 only, maybe. Can't really say without comparing to statistics. My personal experience is different from others, something that usually people don't take into account.
4) And finally, how was your week? :)
Not good. Didn't do much work.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1764849#Comment_1764849
Yeah I 100% agree, the game is not in a state where bloodlust can be removed. I thought that before the test and the test is only enforcing it so far. Maybe that'll change but its not looking likely.
There's a pretty vocal group of people that are just like "OnLy BaD kIlLeRs gEt BloOdlUst" and completely ignoring the issue of map and loop design not being where it needs to be at all to remove it.
On that topic. I've just watched the videos from OhTofu and Scott on the topic of the experiment and both are pro removing it, BUT with caveats. OhTofu thinks there are valid reasons for keeping it and that there are still strong loops in the game and set ups that make it very, very difficult to catch survivors. As for Scott I thought it was very condecending in one way, still he points out the same thing saying he would keep BL lvl 1 because of those same setups.
I'm not saying their word is gospel. I think it's just interesting to point out such examples so people dont go out saying we are simply ranting out for no reason when we are simply arguing the reasons for and against it and it's weaknesses. Someone that is unknown here people can say: "but how many hours you have in the game?" and such. Those have 5k+ hours in the game, which is not an average player, so no one can say they are not talking from some kind of experience.
As for the reason I think Scott is being condecending in his video is because he repeats this mantra that only bad players use BL lvl 2 or 3. In some occasions, I don't know about you guys, but I don't win every game. If you don't win every game, if you are good or bad you will notice, if you really pay attention, that BL1 or 2 made that chase you would not get the person from 1cm of the pallet. That will happen more often the more you play against good groups of survivors.
When I play against purple ranks, for instance, it's very rare that 3 of them don't die because they dont know how to use the loops very well. But for those who know (usually on red ranks, but not necessarily), they can pretty much make themselves free to roam the map. Depending on the position of stronger loops and setups in the map, even with a lot of hooks and a 3 gen situation you are against the corner. Because you know if you chase on that direction you will lose the game.
Another thing that I think it's condecending is because not everyone plays this game as a profession, with 5k hours. People might start losing some perspective to such a point. That is not the case I when you hear OhTofu, but it is in the case of Scott in my opinion.
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Since people will keep saying no matter what that this and that bc bad players, name calling and such. Will start to post people that are known streamers talking on the matter so there is some perspective on regards to experience in the game. Not necessarily being good or the best player around, but having proof of experience:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyEWRfPONNU
Here OhTofu discusses the matter.
Edit:
Here is another. Scott Jund. Thousands and thousands of hours, known streamer. He is pro removing bloodlust, but as OhTofu he has other caveats, like keeping bloodlust 1 for reasons he explain that are fairly similar to what people are saying here.
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There were a lot of mistakes there, in the way of chasing and missing. Not to mention there was a person doing a generator right next to the chase. Still, without the bloodlust this just goes to show how loops become much stronger and the more experience the survivor has on looping and using the strong setups it is possible to simply become untouchable. If the killer dares to go after you he already lost the match or is on his way to lose it, because for killer time is much more scarce.
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@Buckoben said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1567281#Comment_1567281
What also gets me about surge is that. If a gen is already kicked I am 90% sure the perk does nothing. So why even bother with a cool down if you can't kick a gen twice.
The point would be to save the time it takes from you to go out of your way to the nearest generator that survivors were working on just so you can kick it. It would save you the time you need to travel there and to kick the gen, and would also get more regression as the perk does.
The problems with the perk are many, just to mention a few:
1) the perk wont activate depending on the distance and usually survivors with a plan tend to move to a place where other survivors are not working on gens. So, you down someone and its not the necessary distance? Useless. It should have been the NEAREST generator(s).
2) The long cooldown make it so the power wont activate when you possibly most need it, making PoP a much better option and Surge (that came after) pretty pointless, unless you have the luck of using exactly when and where you need it. But since you cant control it like PoP that goes out of the window.
They could simply make the effect less powerfull and rethink the cooldown to make the perk more valuable than it is. As I mentioned, I seriously never found a killer using this perk.
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It seems like they fear too much that any perk became a new good perk or meta perk, meaning: they changed anything in the current ballance. So they put very long cooldowns to make sure any meaningfull effect is lost on new perks.
I understand this game is hard to balance, but I dont think they should fear changes to the balance so much. IF things get too unbalanced, make other changes, revert back, etc. At this point it seems there are things that are not even being tested for fear of any changes.
And agreed. Think about perks like Surge... which I dont think I ever played against a killer using it btw. Why does it need a cooldown? And if it has, it simply doesnt make sense 60s or 30s for that matter.
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Yet again, DC penalties come back AND the 1 DC per day come back as well. Why in the F hell, I only get disconnected by the game when you guys turn this penalties ON. I cant help but think one thing is related to another, since exactly the first day I play with the penalties back the 1 obligatory auto-DC start happening again. The same old, same old... -_- another day, another 1 or 2 auto-dcs.
That didnt happen before with servers, or after when dc penalties were not working.
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I know all this discussion its not something to change anything at all. But even in a discussion like this you should refer to what standards you are talking about.
Saying you or a skilled player was good with Freddy and he didnt had to be reworked because of this its not a very good argument. First what actually you consider good, and what is your standard? For most people, including the devs, saying a killer is good means he is either easy to learn and use, or have very high potential due to his power (like Huntress and Nurse IF mastered, meaning they have low kill rates despite having high potential).
I can agree the very first version of Freddy had some potential, but its not nearly as good as this new version of Freddy from both standards. One thing I can also agree is that the first version of Freddy was more original and more fun to play with, but that doesnt make him a "better" killer. When he was changed he already became very weak and easy to counter. New Freddy is not as nearly as fun as the first version, but he has more map control and more chase potential which is two of the trademarks that make the best killers in the game unnanimously. If that isnt enough to convince now he has very high pick rate and kill rates that just proves this point.
I think its fun to argue how he was more original or more interesting to play, but clearly in terms of performance there is no denying he is better in the general sense devs and players think.
In summary, I think you are wasting your time trying to prove he was better in these standards, because everyone can see the charts and say otherwise (specially regarding the reworked Freddy 2nd version). You should probably focus on his originality or his gameplay, or fun, instead of saying he was better because you were better with him. No one will change the game because a handfull of people were better with him in said version. Think about changing your angle, otherwise its really pointless to discuss something so easy to dismiss.
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Stopped for some time.... getting back and then, yet again. 8th day, 8th disconnect.
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Well, its real and its evolving. Now Im getting 2-3 disconnects by the server. At the 7th day got 15 min of lock down when I never, ever rage quit. Please, what is happening?
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I had people die on my traps while I played Pig, but that almost never happens. Last time it did I was using addon to add more jigboxes and survivors were simply doing gens while the person was terrorized trying to find the right box. I think its almost impossible for that to happen against a good team or if you dont keep harassing the person in normal circumstances.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179349#Comment_1179349
It gave him pressure though, that's what old Freddy was about. You wasted like a good 20 seconds of progress all due to Freddy pressing M2 on you. Imagine that across all 4 survivors and games last ages.
Also it did help you kill if you knew how to use him, like this:
If you are saying this like he was better, its just plain wrong according to stats. Personal prefference aside, the stats dont lie. Freddy went from one of the lowest kill rate to the highest after the rework. If you like him better or not, that is a fact.
The first iteration of Freddy maybe could be good enough if he stayed that way, because he was good at slugging. Still had problems in many situations but wasnt almost completely useless against an average team.
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6th day, 6th disconnect. Lets see till the day ends.
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Lately Im getting 1 disconnect per day in this game consistently. Almost as if the server didnt recognize me as a player bc I dont ragequit. It could be something happening in multiple servers Idk. So far Im posting every day in the feedback section for every day this occurs. So far 5 days with 5 disconnects from server pretty much how you described. You can be playing killer or survivor, 1 game they force you to wait in the bench for 5 min for no reasons explained.
At least if they keep this consistency its not that bad. My concern is that this feature becomes more than once per day, making it 10+ min. Which will simply make me quit the game and play something else.
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Yeah, no. Took forever for them to make Freddy a viable killer because his power before was interesting in theory, but really easy to counter. What's the point of a power that doesnt help you kill, instead it hinders you most of the time? Freddy was the opposite of Stealth killers: (A) you find survivor and hit him before he notices you (stealth killer); (-A) You find the survivor, he knows you are there for like forever, have to wait a long time just to give the first hit... and then you start a long chase with a chance of having to wait again bc he failed a skillcheck behind a pallet. His only advantage was not being seen, which made almost no difference bc of the prep before hitting. Also, seeing ppl from far away makes no difference if you dont have time to catch or chase them.
Yeah, no.
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Indeed matchmaking isnt based on hours, but it just goes to show how bad designed the ranking system in this game is in the first place. First you get paired in some matches with random ranks, making it too easy or impossible; Second 20 to 1 isnt enough to distinguish skill, specially bc the conditions to gain ranks are also busted. In my opinion this game should have had a MMR system from the get go and the more details in it the better so you can pair people around the same level of skill and in some cases even in the same hours of experience.
200h players against 3-5k h players in multiple matches just goes to show this ranking system should be thrown away, along with de-ranking as well. You should de-rank alot if you lose a lot, and that doesnt happen in this game.
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If you dont get any generators is because you and/or your group are inexperienced players. Im not saying that to make fun, its a simple fact of this game and the random matchmaking makes it worse.
The reason you cant do gens its not BBQ, but lack of experience in looping killers. When someone or various someones are good in distracting killer you can do all generators in less than 5 minutes. Watch some videos about how to counter BBQ bc its not that difficult and ppl are using it constantly mostly because of points. Indeed its one of the best killer perks, but not invincible.
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5th day, 5th disconnect in a row. Still no word about why this keeps happening consistently. The game simply decides to disconnect me 1 match per day.
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4th day, 4th disconnect and counting.
Edit: 4th day, 5th disconnect. This thing happening became such a feature in the game for me that in the 4th disconnect I didnt receive the lockdown from lobby. Please, fix this bug. I can vouch for it happening everyday consistently. Today I will post the video on youtube showing how it is happening.
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BM. If you didnt get enough points from hitting them before it wont matter at the end. Most ppl I play with and against do this not for sympathy, but to flaunt how good they are for escaping the killer. Also, some of them do that just to dead hard to the exit OR to lure you for another person to be saved or get the hatch. There is rly no advantage for a killer to say goodbye at the exit gate. As a survivor if you want more points you wont be at the gate, so if you won and will only escape, just leave and stop being an idiot.
At least that's my suggestion. Do whatever you want, just don't complain later that killers or survivors are toxic when and if you contribute to the toxicity, that's the way I think.
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@Cardoso994 said:
Hello, anyone from PS4 down to play?
My ps is: TiagoC15. It's me and another friend. We are having trouble finding games and if there are 4 of us I assume it is easier.
This is not the best place to recruit friends, try on discussion which is on the first page. Im pretty sure its easier to find a better topic for that or create yours.
Anyways. 3rd day in a row another disconnection as usual. One more day, one more disconnect.
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@Oicimau said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/138844/please-fix-servers-feedback
In PS4, only DBD keeps saying i have no internet connection, and all other online games goes smooth. I think the connectivy issues may be not only in one platform. But the devs are still to give us a answer why dbd acts like that and if they are working on that.
That of no connection I had from time to time, but not consistently as the 1 time disconnection that is happening now. It's almost like a feature atm. When its says you have no connection it happened to me because of steam particularly, this is just a random 1 or 2 time disconnection that is almost timed between one day to another. It's almost as if the server wants to dc people on purpose to lower its load or as if it doesnt recognize your account before you pass the test of being disconnected on purpose.
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@TWiXT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1170168#Comment_1170168
Nurse has only 3 stuns/slowdowns: Blade wipe, post blink Fatigue, and post blink Fatigue after an unsuccessful strike which lasts longer than a successful strike or no strike. If not for her blink ability she is literally the slowest killer in the game moving at 3.68 meters per second, but because she can blink for 20 meters at a time, she has crazy good mobility. Deathslinger on the other hand is no where near this in mobility, requires precision aiming, a limited range, and has 5 slowdowns just for using his power to try and injure/down a survivor... one of which occurs when he successfully hits a survivor with his ability. A Nurse player can down a survivor after 2 successful blink strikes in much less time than Deathslinger can even get his first successful strike on a survivor. Not as many stuns? You must be joking.
Nurse has less stuns than him and a power that is considered unequivocally the most powerfull in the game because disables loops, pallets, walls etc. It takes a lot of mastering, but she has a lot of stun bc when she is mastered you can end chases almost instantly with a few map exceptions.
Deathslinger doesnt have that much potential to justify this many stuns as pointed out in detail by the creator of the thread.
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It should activate even on small ladders and ramps like those from tracors in corn maps if you fall over to the sides of them you just cant go 1 step of the ladder and try to go down because the transition wont make you fall.
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@PeenutsButt3r said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1169989#Comment_1169989
I do get DC when I play survivor, usually 1 match, that might be a bug
It became like a staple thing. Every time I play I need to expect at least 1 match to disconnect on me all the sudden. I never ragequit as a killer bc its just ridiculous and pointless, you lose points, progress on any challenges and you look like an idiot even more if you are losing. Now Im forced every day I play to at least once or twice, playing just a few hours to get disconnected. Oof... it's really annoying.
Right now, just as I said yesterday, I down the survivor and then he is back up and about running and I already know... fk disconnected again.
Second day in a row and counting (I had many days before, but now I will start counting to pass the dc timer on forum).
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@PeenutsButt3r said:
Im sure they're aware of this, probably devs are doing stuffs on the servers
I can't know if they are aware if there is no input from them or other players. It could be plain bad luck, though I doubt, because I dont even play every day, but every day I play I get at least 1 disconnect. This game was never like this, no reason to start now (no reason they gave at least). Are you experiencing something similar in your region?
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Next time you find those same tbaggers use Blood Warden and pretend they are about to leave the gate after saving their friend. Use a endgame build or bring a green mori just for the DS strikers at the endgame.
Otherwise just dont pay attention to them. If they let you hit them at the gate, just hit to gain more points and let them buttdance pointlessly. You can also ignore them and look for the hatch to close and gain more points.
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@Peanits said:
I'm not a fan of this whole us vs. them mindset, but in all fairness, this is the exact same thing that happened to Exhaustion perks. When they were combined together, they were far too powerful, so they were changed such that only one could effectively be used at a time.
This is an us vs them, specially because this is a versus game, not a coop game. People will be voicing by this mindset all the time, whether its correct or not is a matter of you guys watching matches and analyzing statistics because personal experience isnt the same for all ranks and players.
As for the second chance perks what is not actually seen is that they are so powerfull because they CREATE another survivor in the game, actually making the time effort of the killer even more narrow than already is.
Examples:
1) Unbreackable => you dont need another survivor to pick you up, you pick up yourself (once), but still it can save a lost game at least 4x if 4 people have it, adding 4 extra hands to the game.
2) DS => instead of someone flashlight saving, body blocking, or taking a protection hit (which can be swaped for BT also, lols), you escape by yourself, giving more time for your other teamates to continue doing what they are doing, instead of interacting with the killer.
Etc... you get the idea.
I dont think the first is that much of a problem, but DS should certainly be reworked in the sense of people acting invincible. If you hook another person I cant see a reason for that first person to be freely doing whatever and specially on endgame collapse DS becomes too powerfull, specially if you dont actually have other person that is possible to chase.
I think second chance perks would be fine as they are IF and only IF perks with the same value that could actually counter specific builds could be found at the Killer's disposal, but now you cant even use Enduring to tone down those stuns, and thats not even mentioning the new changes to Sabo that wont actually have any counter perks, only Slug tactics to counter (which btw can be easily countered by experienced team using unbreackable - not standing close together and swarming the killer, etc).