ChaosWam
ChaosWam
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@pizzavessel15 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634769#Comment_3634769
it doesnt mess with tunneling. if anything its making her weaker for the people who dont tunnel
Exactly.
Tunneling is something inherent to DBD, not to condemned.
Even thinking about the scenario, for a survivor to die to condemned stacks by tunneling it would take a survivor:
- Ignoring the active TV and gaining condemned until Sadako shows up
- Running into more TVs for her to teleport to, if she hadn't already spammed them for #1
- Failing to get to a safe spot after unhook with basekit BT
- Never interacting with tapes to counter the condemned in the first place
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@NickMilian said:
Anyone know who owns Sadako’s license and if they have socials? it might be an idea to let them know how unhappy we are with BHVR butchering her, maybe some pressure from them would help actually get our points across since they clearly don’t listen to us.
Honestly everyone can try, but look at BHVR's track record. Look at Freddy, or Twins and how long it took to get them attention. Heck, Billy took years to finally be in a spot most everyone enjoys.
BHVR seems to just want to go by data with no thought toward general gameplay and it seems like they do it because it's easier than giving survivors the tools they need to learn how to counterplay killer powers. They turned a blind eye for a long time with current Sadako's condemned slugging, and even longer with her old condemned slugging.
More than likely this change will go through and we won't see anything for months. I don't even believe in their whole 'Watch List' thing because they've already mentioned keeping an eye on things before that went out of hand for too long. Even this line right here pretty much proves my point:
I don't say these things as a Sadako main at this point, this is purely coming from my point of view who plays survivor and killer in a 40/60 split. We all know there are worse offenders than PTB Sadako in the game and these nerfs were not justified. If they wanted to curb tunneling, the max they needed to do was a cap on locked-in condemned. Adding the cooldown is just insult to injury for those who liked the changes and those who like current Sadako.
Edit: Besides, is capping condemned really going to curb tunneling? What stops a Sadako from just doing it regardless of condemned?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634506#Comment_3634506
No cooldown teleportation promoted spamming teleport mindlessly with no decision making or thought process. The lock condemn stack promoted tunneling survivor off-hook and slugging people next to TV's to finish the 7 stacks of condemn on the "Locked Condemn" survivor.
These were grossly problematic designs in PTB Sadako. All the change are justified.
Absolute nonsense.
You couldn't even reliably spam teleport, every teleport would remove a 16m area of condemned spread for a chunk of time. Not to mention, survivors could grab a tape in the time it takes for Sadako to teleport, demanifest, and teleport again with no real downside.
She has a strong counterplay to a strong power. What these changes are, they're a kneejerk reaction to players who don't know or want to know how to counter her at a basic level. Even the power cooldown makes 0 sense because, again, TVs have a limited range and can be seen by survivors if they need to turn them off. It would make WAY more sense with current Sadako, not the PTB one. And I really tested against her in PTB and found there wasn't a tunneling or spam issue if you just managed the tapes and dodged the M1 killer with a loud stealth ability.
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@Green_Sliche said:
Still believe Sadako got better? Where are you, people who were happy with PTB changes? Did you really expect she would be allowed to be released like that?
This Sadako will be played just like the old one. A pub-stomp killer who gets condemned on clueless people but does nothing against more or less competent players. Hit-and-run failure candidate.
Listen, I was skeptical of her PTB before that was released to test. And as someone who likes CURRENT Sadako and has gone on length to defend the positives of her while pointing out the negatives and what could have been done, PTB Sadako blew my expectations out of the water. It was the perfect balance of old and current.
This right here, a cooldown on power and a nerf to the condemned hook? It's clear cut handholding for survivors. They can already see TV auras within range, hear the lullaby or see it with the visual heartbeat, and do tapes in front of her in 1 second with no real downside in touching the tapes.
She didn't need adjustments to her kit. What she needed was addon QoL. And when I'm starting to think running Iri Tape because condemned is back to being next to useless as a pressure tool, it makes me want to just swap to Nurse. And I don't exaggerate when I say that because good chances are they won't touch Nurse longer than anyone else.
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Not sure if it would be fast enough for BHVRs devs to rewrite/add code to make these changes happen before live. More than likely we're stuck with her for a month or two before they decide to change things.
That said, these suggestions are clearly more thought out than whatever BHVR is doing.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634569#Comment_3634569
it shouldn’t be difficult for them to predict and determine. It shouldn’t be difficult at all. With all the feedback, suggestions, and assistance they had on the public test server.
This actually should be a very easy decision. But instead it has to be extremely complicated.
before she was ever changed to begin with, when she was just in her original state, as an on real man all I wanted was the other TVs to give off condemn. Everything else stays the same if they just buffed her power I wasn’t worried about anything else like her non exsistent anti looping and chase powers.
This is exactly why, for years, I asked for PTB to be a standalone client. Quick changes like this should be tested leading up to release, not kneejerk reactions to problems nobody had.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634562#Comment_3634562
I want to cry right now. NOT OUT OF JOY.
@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634562#Comment_3634562
Exactly! If you’re adding a cooldown that should be applying now! On global! Not her changes in the ptb. Bhvr please. 🙏🏼💕
don’t do this.
And one line later in the update really grinds my gears here:
Then what was the point of the PTB and everyone's feedback, BHVR?
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There's no defending this at all.
I was already hoping she wouldn't receive the Freddy treatment before PTB, was pretty stoked about the changes in the PTB, never saw anyone abuse the power like they suggest because survivors can easily take tapes with NO downside, and they still manage to give her the Freddy treatment.
Heck, that power cooldown fits CURRENT Sadako's global condemned better than PTB Sadako, and we didn't get that???
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People have wild ideas for balancing this game, and I guarantee some don't even care about balance and just want really busted buffs. Also this may be the only community I see that also wants things to be nerfed to oblivion instead of reasonably balanced to the point where people end up arguing over the same ideals, only over minute things like how long a perk is active and act like each person in question is wanting wildly different things or assuming the worst.
I honestly don't envy BHVR when they have to comb over some of these suggestions when they decide on changes.
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Weird, whenever I run different builds I get called boring anyway despite running more gen block instead of regression.
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Actually... No. Surprisingly.
I think it's because of the killers I love playing, I've learned their weaknesses and strategies and can apply them to my survivor side gameplay.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633439#Comment_3633439
Any of the Old Gods would be too OP to be believable as a killer, bust something Lovecraftian/Cosmic Horror-ish would be awesome, and there are many lesser gods to choose from. I just don't know if that's too niche to really sell.
Of course I would argue that the Entity is inspired by Lovecraft.
What do I want to see? Robert Englund Freddy (with trash talk), Nancy surv. Chuck has only highlighted how lame imitation Freddy is.
Jason, of course. Pennywise, many of the other usual suspects.
My interpretation would be a high priest of one of the cults trying to sacrifice the survivors for their own old god, unaware or oblivious to it helping the Entity instead.
Could be a half-squid or fish/human hybrid with an Innsmouth map. Not entirely sure on powers though, I'd have to think about that one.
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@Selfpreservated said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633440#Comment_3633440
There should be indications for hook related perks such as slippery meat and deliverance when its active so people dont try to instantly unhook.
the amounts of time i've seen survivors in the opposite side of the map doing a gen and then stop repairing it for trying to unhook me when I have deliverance make me go crazy.
Or when you don't run any hook builds and they just decide you going to second hook is a necessary evil for their gen to hit 50% when they're right next to you.
Honestly this is also why I attempt to unhook myself these days.
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It's funny to me that every time I see a post like this anywhere, it's almost always different killers being complained about.
I'm starting to wonder if it's an MMR thing; More killers of those types in your MMR bracket.
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Because I'm running a luck build with slippery meat for the content and thREE SURVIVORS ARE TRYING TO INSTANTLY SAVE ME AS SOON AS I'M HOOKED-
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C'thulu inspired chapter at the very least.
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I see DH occasionally, and the ones who do run it know how to use it pretty well.
Sometimes I'm convinced they're running a script to auto-time it still, at times I swear they had OTR but they had touched a gen and still instantly timed my hit with their DH, but I'd rather assume they're just better at timing it if they're still running it at this point.
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If I were to suggest a perk that, by merely equipping it, completely prevented med-kits from being used-
Plague has entered the chat.
But for real, lightborn isn't an issue. Just don't go for flashlight blinds and do gens instead.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632948#Comment_3632948
And then, the return of the no mither/decisive/map offering builds to get to places where you can't hook, slug, pick up or do much without a SWF group punishing any choice you make.
I am pretty sure that No Mither has never, ever been a build.
Some of my first memories with this game were the no mither/unbreakable builds using DS.
@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632968#Comment_3632968
That doesn't work if you don't spam it. If there is a downed survivor standing close to anything you have to take your time, make sure you know which interaction will happen before you do it.
As for bodyblocking, you can go around them. If there is no way to go around you hit, depending on how long it took there is no more basekit BT to help. If they don't have Unbreakable they now need help to get up, the other two survivors can be those SoloQ teammates that will take time to help.
Meanwhile you are putting the pressure on someone else, that can be a Thanatophobia stack taking effect during that time or a Pain Res after a short chase. There are countless scenarios where bodyblocking fails. Sometimes they don't even try to do it.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633060#Comment_3633060
I asked several times for BBQ to be reverted, so I'm good.
Cool. Then why is it every time I run into that exact scenario I don't spam my buttons and still get into those 50/50 scenarios with the pickup techs?
And yeah, good luck going around survivors in indoor maps/doorways with walls. And we're still talking about the high chance of them bringing both DS and Unbreakable.
And no, if they bodyblock correctly you lose ALL pressure, especially if they run DS and OTR.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632935#Comment_3632935
I disagree with that.
Bodyblocking can be annoying, but there are ways around it, there always have been. And that "pickup tech" doesn't even work.
The perk is no longer active at the end game and I don't think this will change. But it needs 5 seconds back because right now there is nothing to stop tunneling. It has to be done.
I've been on the receiving end of the pickup tech many times, if they vault or exit a locker as soon as you try to open it and the game decides you pick up instead. All it takes is telling your SWF buddies to go down near one and baiting the killer into it.
And really there isn't much choice if you're bodyblocked aside Sadako's demanifest or well timed shots with an M2 killer. Most survivors will block doorways until they get hit and they absolutely will waste every second of their perks to do it. Then killer has to decide if it's faster to try and hook who bodyblocked or go for their teammate, risking the downed survivor having perks to pick themselves up. Meanwhile, their teammates are doing gens and will pop those before grabbing their friend if you keep going with your original chase. A lot of your options are a lose/lose scenario if you choose to not tunnel in these circumstances and buffing DS to have no downsides to using it as a weapon and not as a defensive tool will only amplify that.
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632948#Comment_3632948
I haven't seen too many people asking for the Conspicuous Actions change to be reverted, I'd agree with you that it'd be a bad idea to do that.
Most people just want the five second stun back from what I've seen, and that won't lead to people being able to weaponise it. It's currently not possible to use DS aggressively unless the killer takes the bait, and even in most of the cases where they do make that easily avoidable mistake, you've still thrown the match getting them to do it.
No extra changes would be needed if all they do is raise the stun time again. Anything else, sure, there might be some issues, but the stun being raised to where it was before will just mean the perk is partially back to its healthiest state. Hell, even raising the stun time further wouldn't be an issue in that regard, but I do think it wouldn't be necessary to go further than five seconds.
I've seen a few in this discussion alone ask for that, a few others on other platforms as well.
And I'd be fine with 5 seconds max, personally I'd prefer 4 seconds and no drop delay after getting a hit so you can use the full 4 seconds, as long as the perk can't be weaponized like it used to be. My main point comes from reading a few of the suggestions I've seen floating around that it needs to be EXTREMELY buffed to compensate tunneling because of tunneling itself with no thought towards normal gameplay.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632935#Comment_3632935
That stopped being meaningfully possible (without throwing, at least) when the Conspicuous Actions nerf happened, though. There was a period of time where we had that deactivation requirement and a five second stun, and during that time, the perk was basically the healthiest it's ever been.
(During that time it did stay active in the endgame, though, which wasn't ideal. I'm not suggesting we bring that back.)
Survivors to this day still try to take the bodyblock trap using current DS, regardless of the conspicuous action.
But forget that for a second, I say the prior to those who want conspicuous gone, 5 seconds+ stuns, active in endgame and other really broken things without addressing the killers who aren't interested in tunneling and will eventually get the raw end of whatever buff.
Then the next issue will arise, just slugging everyone just in case. And then, the return of the no mither/decisive/map offering builds to get to places where you can't hook, slug, pick up or do much without a SWF group punishing any choice you make. I guarantee if proper changes aren't in place for a DS buff, we'll see it added to the current SWF builds already still being used to deny the killer any choice to play the match normally.
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I feel like a ton of survivors need to be reminded of why Decisive was nerfed in the first place: Killers who didn't tunnel.
You'd get survivor SWF who would take bodyblocks for their team after an unhook and try to get you to pick them up, or get their team to do a pickup tech when you try to break a pallet/grab another survivor from a locker, get stunned for 5 seconds, rinse and repeat for trying to SPREAD hooks. It also basically gave survivors a free escape at endgame, which was another big reason for the nerf.
Anyone asking for 5 or more seconds, endgame availability, and no downside at all are just asking to abuse it again.
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I was running surge/jolt a lot in the PTB and never ran into a problem. Perhaps survivors will find a way around it, but who knows.
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I have to just tell myself I didn't loop well enough at this point, every time I barely miss a window hit or a pallet slap before the stun, I can't just assume they're stealth cheating or else I'll drive myself insane.
It's kinda why I started getting into stealth killers more. That extra haste won't help with hit and run, especially against Skull Merchant's drones.
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I feel this isn't 100% the case, considering how hated Ultimate Weapon is and it hasn't been touched.
That said, their ideas of nerfing/buffing perks is strange. STBFL should have been adjusted for the increased killer animation speeds, I agree that much, but giving the downside of ANY damage to the obsession taking 2 stacks makes it useless on a few killers that benefit the most from the increased animation time.
Another thing I tend to dislike is survivors claiming things like the Grim Embrace buff being too oppressive when it will only work on 4 fresh hooks, even saying it promotes tunneling? 10 seconds of a blocked generator won't really matter when the killer tunnels someone out, and he'd still need to target other survivors to get value as is. Even if he tunnels the first survivor he downs, the generators will unblock about the time that survivor is unhooked and hopefully a teammate or two will take a protection hit while other(s) stick to their gens. That's what I did during the PTB.
On the survivor side, you have something like Deja Vu that isn't an issue by itself, but the problem is if a full SWF run it with resilience/prove thyself and good toolboxes while other survivors run chase builds against killers with little mobility, you'll make gens fly much faster. The perk itself isn't bad, but with most survivor perks it's a matter of synergy with 3 other survivors instead of on it's own like a killer perk would be. It's also why Buckle Up+FTP is such a strong combination.
Really in the end, there should be more playtesting on the devs side of things on perk changes. There's so many of them that combinations of perks, powers, and items are becoming a real problem to deal with when these things rise up and a huge backlash when things get addressed because we're used to them and how they feed the 'our side' debates. PTB is a great idea for testing, but the issue with it is you're still limited to your inventory in the PTB. Often times I skip PTBs because I don't have millions of BP saved to test a new killer/survivor's perks as much as I'd like to try and find things people may often overlook. Really, PTB needs to be a standalone client at this point.
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I think it would be possible, but they'd have to overhaul the foundations of this game so users using cheats is minimized or completely removed in some way. I think it'd make upgrading to newer gen consoles easier if they did that, cutting the cost of physical copies and what not.
That said, we also have to consider the monetary side of it as well. Would they make as much if it were free to play? And would we also risk them adding a Gacha system like their mobile counterpart? Personally I'd rather it stay priced for the base game just because of that possibility.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631937#Comment_3631937
And 4 seconds are doing nothing against m2 killers, they will catch you. Every second you can make distance will help you, 5 seconds matter for those killers.
Before you ask me what about m1 killers, yes i know they are exists. But most of games i am seeing Chucky, Nurse, Xeno, Wesker, Blight etc. So anti-tunnel perks need to be balanced against popular and strong killer, not weak killers.
If somehow they make killer lose power for 10 seconds, even 3 seconds DS will be fine. But if they keep everything same as the current DS 4 seconds won't change the fact perk is still garbage.
4 seconds is plenty to get to a new tile. Remember, my suggestion makes it active for 60 seconds, so you could run the killer for 50, get the stun, and get to a new tile to waste more time for your team to do gens or take hits.
They could also make it where there's no delay to movement after landing once you hit the skillcheck.
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In my own opinion, the only downside to self care is if you get caught. If you're healing yourself, the other survivors can do generators or keep the killer busy regardless of how long it takes to heal.
Not to mention, if the killer doesn't use mangled then you can 99 your heal to do things like luring your killer or use resilience until you're just about to get hurt.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631924#Comment_3631924
4 second would keep it as garbage as current version.
And how game will tell you just took protection hit? Especially when someone bodyblocks for you but killer pass them and hit you. And now you are on ground without DS?
Yeah, this does not make any sense.
I remember when it was used as a SWF weapon, 5 seconds was way too long. And as I said, if it was possible I'd like that change but I understand how vague protection hits would be.
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@oxygen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631924#Comment_3631924
I don't trust the game to deactivate it on protection hit as long as it boils down to "IF you take a hit AND there's an injured survivor nearby = protection hit". Imagine honestly trying to run from the killer then having your DS turn off from a mysterious protection hit, then you see an injured Meg run out of a bush near you or something.
Exactly the issue. I'd love for it to do so but the game picks up protection hit very vaguely.
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4 second stun, deactivates after gates are powered, active for 60 seconds and if at all possible deactivates when taking a protection hit to prevent it being used as a SWF weapon.
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Problem is you can incentivize spreading hooks as much as possible and you'll still get killers who tunnel someone out just so they can get the 4k, for reasons anywhere between they desperately want the wins or they're trying to adept.
If, somehow, BHVR magically made a mechanic to fully stop tunneling then something would need to be done about certain loops and tiles, as well as really busted perk combinations and SWF coordination and I don't see those happening any time soon.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Nope, not at all.
What is terrifying is how horrible is this perk, also very thanks to Deja Vu.
Honestly while I personally think Deja Vu could be fine reverted, even if it goes back to the original version it will still be a better perk than this one. Or really, any perk that highlights gens aside maybe rookie spirit if the gen regressing is at 80% or something. And let's not forget, these are mainly geared towards soloQ.
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Everything I've read about old DBD before I joined on Sadako's release made me extremely happy I waited to get into this game.
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@Quizzy said:
That reworked Grim embrace will be like a mini eruption if they leave it as is. It's even more effective when paired with dms and pain res.
I'd argue using multiple perks to create a scenario like old eruption wouldn't be 'mini' at all.
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I feel as if this can kind of soft-apply to most online cooperative or PvP team games. You're always rolling the dice on if your teammates are good or not. DBD is a bit different because you also roll if the killer is good or not as well, and they make up the power difference.
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I have a few clips from matches I've streamed before I thought were funny but this one is the one I often think about.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1890557437 -
@Ayodam said:
I thought it was the permanent aura reading that was the buff—not the bonus speed to repairing generators. I guess it depends on which version we’re talking about. If the devs reverse any part of its buff it should be what they most recently buffed (the permanent aura reading, the repair percent bonus was just 1% between the last two versions). Otherwise, it’s just nerfing the perk back to uselessness.
I believe they raised it by 1% per tier as well as the permanent aura.
I'd also like to note the buff was pretty much stated to be a bandaid until 3-gen was settled and fixed.
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Sadako and Deadman's Switch.
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Honestly I find her rework more fun to play against.
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I've actually seen this twice before, I used to spam Midwich offerings because it felt oddly appropriate for Sadako. It's a rare spot for sure.
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Honestly I've gotten more feedback on reports I do in game now that they show you when action was taken. I don't report often either, just when I see blatant cheating or harassment that does violate their ToS. I don't know if they actually go through with all of them, but it's nice to get some kind of response.
That said, I still believe when it comes to cheats you need video proof for them, unfortunately.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3628100#Comment_3628100
Tunnelling nerf? Are we playing same game? Tunnelling is living in gold era right now, it was never been that strong.
Are we forgetting the times the killer can down right off hook?
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3628017#Comment_3628017
Did they ever SAY the buff to it was temporary, or are you assuming it was, because the perk isn't exactly OP.
It was at least implied:
We have noticed growing concerns surrounding excessively long matches caused by 3-genning (Killer defending a cluster of three generators). We are working on a long term solution for a future update to limit how effective this strategy can be. However, we recognize that Survivors need more options at their disposal right now to combat 3-genning. With this in mind, some adjustments have been made to Déjà Vu: The perk will now reveal the auras of 3 generators which are in close proximity to one another indefinitely (previously for 30/45/60 seconds at the start of the trial and every time a generator was completed) and grant a 4%/5%/6% repair speed bonus on the revealed generators (previously 3%/4%/5%).
Wording of this made it sound like it would be reverted once the change to 3 gen works, but we have to see how well it sticks.
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Yes and no?
On Nurse it's disgusting, personally I only run I'm All Ears for her information because I still have trouble learning her teleports past certain loops, but otherwise running all aura reading is insane.
On the other hand, there are survivors who hide the ENTIRE match and it feels like you need these aura reading perks to find them half the time if they're not just swapping around lockers.
That said, I haven't ran into hiders as much these days so I haven't been running a lot of aura reading outside ones that assist in loops.
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Slightly, but she has some great new changes that turn her from being oppressive all match to being a really potent mid-to-late game monster if played right and if you get condemned stacks stuck on survivors post-hooking them.
Went a few matches with getting 2-3 mori's because some survivors assumed she was as weak as on release Sadako.
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@Vanishlord said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3626243#Comment_3626243
If they ruin it I will be flying to Montreal and be having words with Mathieu Coté and whoever else is responsible. We have waited to long god knows how the Freddy mains have dealt with it.
Honestly, I enjoy current Sadako but after playing the PTB I'll be the second to buy a ticket if they nerf anything to the PTB kit unnecessarily.
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No, I'm pretty content with current CoH.
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The only real gripe I have is the Iridescent Tape changes.
Trading condemned for longer survivor TV cooldowns is weird, even with the TVs not turning off after a teleport. I tried combining it with VCR for mindgames but since survivors can grab tapes with no downside, you just have a ton of turned off TVs, no condemned and no real movement.
Otherwise the changes are pretty great.