Callmehandsome
Callmehandsome
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1767616#Comment_1767616
maybe that was because pallets are kind of needed for survivors to be able to play the game?
their new policy is "have a lot of unsafe pallets around" - you wont have scenarios wherethere are only like 5 pallets on a map, but if the killer is good they can play around every pallet and achieve hits. there are only very few exceptions to this ("god pallets").
killers are not in a bad spot right now. not at all.
I know that, but i pointed it out to you that they nerfed survivors to save the game, not because they wanted to be "generous" to killers. If you watch all major changes they are often more cautious when they give survivor nerfs compared to killers. If you remember the change like changing flashlight and pallet saves with zero timing needed, this of course happened with free week when playerbase were araund 50k+ if i remember correctly, they simply wanted to attract new survivor players
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1766636#Comment_1766636
3) is exactly what this experiment is for. they want to find out whether loops like that still exist and if they can deactivate BL now or if their maps need further balance changes first.
4) seeing how the game has developed over the years, i have to disagree. if they really preferred the survivor experience so much more than the killer experience, a lot of the later killer buffing patches would have never made it in. i agree that they have had some poor wording at times though, they could improve that a little xD
They started buffing killers late 2016 and early 2017 when player base was literally dying. I remember waiting with my friends for a game for 45 minutes and no game. Even as a solo survivor high rank wait times were sometimes ridiculous, killer queque were instant. Then they gave massive killer buffs to recover the killer playerbase and later removed a lot of the buffs slowly. At one point there was barely any pallets, which again got reverted few patches later.
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@IMhereRUN said:
C’mon with the BL thing already. Everyone pretty much knows, if you’re a killer and you reach BL2, you’ve already made a mistake.
For those players that maybe don’t mind losing and enjoy having only 1 or 2 chases a game...if you’re so reliant on BL, use PWYF instead. Stacks to this is much easier than getting BL, and 3 stacks is faster than BL3.
I would like to see you catch me as a m1 killer in Crotus Prenn Asylum when i abuse the main building windows. There windows are still exceptionally strong and even with bloodlust you could waste TONS of killers time there, because as soon as he reached enough bloodlust you just used pallet and he is forced to break it. Problem is that this building is center of the map so almost anywhere the chase starts good survivors will start running towards it so "chase somebody else" is not always option
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People want bloodlust gone so they can abuse loops like this. Same reason nerfing balanced landing was easier because nerfing the perk that CREATES infinites in several maps than reworking every single flaw in every map. Bloodlust negates abusable RNG loops. It does barely anything in short loops.
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Bloodlust 1 should stay at least to counter dirty loops such as Jungle gym window facing long wall window jungle gym. It doesn't take much skill to abuse structures like this
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@Asssblasster625 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1762754#Comment_1762754
This is the ######### that makes me take a month long break after 2 days of playing cause I always get these or something almost as bad
Yeah it's actually silly, it should never happen that you get structures like this. I've had survivor game where we had like 1 long wall jungle gym and then obviously shack and remainder of short loops. But then in other end of spectrum you could get 3 long wall jungle gyms, cow tree, shack and windows perfectly in line of each other. They really should work on their RNG how it works
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Bloodlust barely does anything anymore, it's already been nerfed so many times. But it does have it's place sometimes when RNG god wants to put godly loops for survivors, such instances like shack window facing long wall jungle gym window and maybe another long loop between them.
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@Belchavez said:
I laugh every time I see this DS whining. The devs have been hearing it for a long time, and nerfed it to it's current balanced state. DS was so much more powerful when it originated. The devs never said it is specifically an anti tunneling perk, but in it's current state that is mostly all it is. A perk hardly worth running unless you're paranoid about getting hard core tunneled, or hoping for that last second , caught escaping at the exit gate play. It's good for someone in the group to be running, just not me. I don't like wasting the slot on such a narrow usage perk. In general, I try not to take a perk I hope I won't need to use. Not enough value from that. Give me a perk like spine chill which will be useful all match over DS anytime.
DS is much more stronger than spine chill, specially if 4 survivors running it. This is now 8 minutes of "immunity" you cannot touch certain survivors total. Also i played back in 2016 and DS wasn't that much stronger than it is now. -Skillcheck was much smaller, enduring soft countered it, unnerving soft countered it, dribbing existed.
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@CustomerService said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1755932#Comment_1755932
I would 100% support the limitation of DS usage in a SWF team to maybe 1 or 2 players in the squad tops. “Your team reached the maximum allowed number of DS, please select another perk”. Something like that.
Leave solo queue alone though.
That wouldn't be so bad yeah. It's hard to balance as there are chill SWF squads out there. But there are also those bully squad with OoO who make your games miserable
No matter what you run in Solo if you get potato team you will most likely die, DS or not. I used to sweat in solo games so my random team would survive but i don't bother anymore. If none of them are repairing gens i won't bother either. Funny thing is that what the killer does in game never irritates me, but other survivors if they don't repair gens when the killer is facecamping me and they just hide in near bushes doing nothing. I just laugh if the killer got so upset for what ever i done. One last question. What kind of horse do you have?
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@CustomerService said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1755920#Comment_1755920
So you basically admit you get carried by cheating through voice communication. Sadly, I play solo queue so I had to carry myself.
I’m in for anything. Want to play together buddy? We can play survivor, play killer, play anything you want. Unlike you I don’t have a whole team holding my hand through the ranks.
As somebody who cries and whines so much about survivors, you surely make use of it.
DS is fine. It’s one of the few things preventing tunnelling, and the only issue we have here is good SWF squads.
But at the same time, how do you remove playing with friends without the game dying. Because trust me, it would die.
You are correct. I've played since 2016 and i already ran DS back then. I never handicap myself when i play any game by not running strongest items& perks addons or what ever. But i do still play killer however and DS is horrible when you get DS'ed even if you don't tunnel. I put my own fun above others, just like you and other players we are playing with. But it doesn't change the fact that i understand that DS is fundamentally broken perk.
Also i never said that SWF needs to be removed because it would kill the game, but there are certain perks that make them grossly overpowered like object & DS combo.
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@CustomerService said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1755907#Comment_1755907
... but that’s not a DS problem, that’s a SWF team with voice communication. You just changed the topic to something completely different. Are you okay mate?
By the way I own a horse. Just as another random unrelated piece of info I’m throwing in since we started doing that.
Right so you refuse to accept my challenge which speaks for itself. If i go look at your comment history i won't find comments abaut you defending SWF? am i correct? DS & OoO are root of the problem which also makes SWF stronger. So deep down you know DS is problematic perk you just like to pretend these scenarios don't exist.
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@CustomerService said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1755891#Comment_1755891
NOED does reward failure. So yes DS has NOED as its killer twin.
And you don’t need to repair in the killers face. In fact that’s stupid. Never once have I seen this unless they were just trolling. People when they’ve been unhooked run away, not start a motor in front of you. Unless I repeat, they’re just trolling at that point.
Don’t use situations that don’t happen to defend something that is a bad idea.
I tell you what, since you claim these scenarios don't exist i will throw challenge for you.
You face my 4-man SWF group and we will all run DS, this is 8 minutes of immunity total btw. You can use any killer you want, any addons. No offerings.
I will record it and post it to this thread how you manage to avoid DS. Should be easy. Also since you are a good killer i expect you don't camp either but you can if you like, generators will be done anyway 😂😂
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@CustomerService said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1755876#Comment_1755876
But that’s the point. You just hooked that survivor. If you hate them so badly that you can‘t stand the idea of them playing the game for 60 seconds more, just camp their body until it runs out.
If it’s such an imperative need that person doesn’t get to play the game he’s paid for just like you, you wait it out and make sure you don’t allow him to participate in the game.
You make no sense at all. They should use that 60 seconds to find safe location to heal themselves & possibly teammates. Repairing gens in killers face is asking to be "tunneled" as the killer has no option to let you either let you keep repairing it & get cuckolded by DS when survivor presses spacebar. This is not tunneling. Killer has no such perks that reward for failure except maybe NOED. DS works the entire game
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@CustomerService said:
DS is a good perk and it is needed in the game for the simple reason that without it, your matches’ length will be reduced to a minute in many situations. You just have to play regularly to see it: How many times has someone been farmed off the hook, re-hooked instantly and since the killer now knows you don’t have DS you’re basically dead.
Many people literally get tunnelled out of the game within two minutes with 5 generators left. How is that fair or fun in any way.
No, DS doesn’t need any nerfs and if anything I would pause the timer while you’re on the ground.
You are not being tunneled if you can repair generators. The least rework DS needs is to disable if you perform such action, otherwise you are just carried with 60 second immunity
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This is not even good fix to DS. Biggest issue most killers and even survivors have with it that you can aggressively use it. Once you have DS active you can run to killers face repairing generator next to him, and this puts killer to lose, lose situation, as he needs to waste time pushing you off of the generator, down you, then waste time slugging as you can use unbreakable, soulguard or alternative is then just eat DS
Simple fix is that DS remains the same but it will de-activate if you go touch a generator. You aren't being tunneled if you can repair gens.
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If killer slugs you for that 60 seconds you got already insane value of the perk. Killer slugging one survivor for 60 seconds could be potential 120+ seconds on generator progress when other 3 are repairing.
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@CustomerService said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1750065#Comment_1750065
I still see more variety in Survivor perks. Sure, you get the dead hard - ds - bt clones fairly often, but they have less impact in the game’s outcome for several reasons:
1. 99% of survivors regardless of rank are potatoes that go down within 10 seconds.
2. Very few people can find totems fast.
3. The undying + ruin combination is guaranteed win, especially as you said if you use a moderately strong killer.
There’s no thrill in the matches anymore. You always win. In order to lose as a killer you have to either have zero experience with the killer you’re using or try to lose on purpose.
I think it would be fair trade with DH and DS got nerfed in exchange for undying and ruin nerf. Less meta
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Problem with dead hard is that it allows you to undo killers mind game just by pressing a button, combine this with the fact that most survivors are running it, and they have it available in every chase. The perk simply gets too big advantages compared to the "drawback" that you have to be injured. Sprint burst has massive drawbacks because you need to walk around the map if you want to have it 24/7 while healthy, sure you can 99% it while running but then you cannot do anything productive while doing that, such as repairing gens, healing teammates which will once again send you walking if you want to keep the perk available. One simple fix to dead hard could be add broken feature that you cannot heal in 60 seconds if you use the perk, being injured is not really a drawback con cindering how strong it is
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@QuAd_Rambo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1727598#Comment_1727598
I mean I think ds is strong but very counterable since basically just don't tunnel which happens a lot so hence why a lot of people run it and I don't agree with making gens slower at the start of game since there are killers such as myers who would become even more powerful and there are already perks that can stop gen rushing at start called corrupt and don't get me started on Freddy and how he can slow gens with addons and slowing gens would literally make it impossible to go up against an iri head huntress which is so broken.
Most people suggest that DS de-activates if you go touch a generator. 60 seconds is long time to be "tunneled" if you can repair gens you aren't being tunneled, but just carried with 60s immunity
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I played back in 2016 and i started as a killer main, now when survivors are weaker i actually turned survivor main. Back then survivors barely repaired generators, it was not uncommon that nobody touched generators for several minutes and most survivors just tried to taunt you most of the game, eventually they made too many mistakes and you snowballed from them. Survivors back then were actually trash compared to today, it was not uncommon that i could catch some of them at literal infinite when you did simple double backs. Average Survivor today would have been god back then lmao.
But i also quit playing killer for few months because the game was generally so frustrating and unbalanced. When killers got 0ks survivors often talked on forums that killing is not winning, but pipping. "You pipped you have nothing to complain abaut". Now this idea has been thrown out of the window because killers generally get more kills
The game was dying quickly araund december 2016 because nobody wanted to play killer, solo survivor queques were sometimes 30 minutes at high ranks and SWF queque even over 45 minutes when i played with friends. After that devs gave killer quite a lot of buffs to killers to recover the playerbase, but then slowly started reverting them again.
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@RocketPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1726235#Comment_1726235
Well Scott Jund is a killer main and he thinks its a good thing.
And Otz and scott seem to both agree that spirit needs more counterplay. (and its not only them)
So its more like instead of "almost everybody" its more like 'people with empathy'
If you want to quote Scott you should know he also suggest nerfing perks like DS, making generators slower at the beginning etc, giving SWF drawbacks
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1725427#Comment_1725427
Okay, first of all, with other killers, the counterplay is a lot more even and about genuine competition, which is what makes it fun. Second of all, don't bring skill level into this in such a manner. Why would you ever assume that the player isn't good? That makes no sense. At all. All of these sorts of things should be assuming that both sides are decent players, because otherwise that argument fits every single killer. All of them.
Edit: and my point is that you DONT PREDICT. Scenario: survivor goes behind a wall. You blink to the edge of the wall where you last saw them. They double back, they get hit. The keep going, your second blink gets them. They vault or drop a a pallet, your second blink gets them. No big brain required, just know-how and muscle memory.
Are you a good nurse? you make it seem like nurse is such a piece of cake to play as. Since her nerf /rework i've seen only handfull of nurses and only 2 of them actually performed well ( with addons of course). I would like to challenge you to down me with your nurse. Should be easy, since nurse is basicly ez mode right? We play perkless and addonless.
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@That1name said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1723362#Comment_1723362
Calling me an entitled survivor main won’t get rid of the problem of killer’s behavior. Most survivor perks can easily be countered by perks if you are THAT worried. Let’s look at a few. Breakout? Iron grasp and mad grit. Sabotaging? Hit them if you can or again iron grasp. Head on? Try to make them use it improperly. Iron will? Stridor. And uh idk. DS! If they enter a locker just ignore them. Go find somebody else. Killers have so much and they still complain, they still tunnel, and they want to nerf DS? Like shut up. People need this perk. People need it because of you.
Spoken like survivor main though. Do you understand how trash tier perks like iron grasp is? It literally adds less than 2 seconds to total wiggle time ^^ It's like saying use small game and detective hunch to counter noed
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I personally think they need to nerf meta perks from both sides. This means that we need to look at to DS, DH and unbreakable combo as well. Some perks in the game are no brainer to run at, while others are trash tier. I mean why wouldn't you run ruin, undying while as DH and DS and far superior to other survivor perks?
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Most important thing as a killer is time management, you need to pick your chases when you want to chase and when not. If you are facing really good survivors only way you can slow the survivors down is either camp, tunnel or slug. Pick your poison. Survivors have capacity to repair all 5 generators in roughly 3-4 minutes, and strongest way to do that is spread to 4 different gens to eliminate killer chances to put pressure
It's a fantasy word if survivor mains tell you that you need to 3 hook every survivor to 4k, it won't happen with good survivors. Personally i try to slug to put pressure on survivors as much as possible, i don't often tunnel but if i see survivor who is dead on next hook they are high priority.
Now if anyone feels that what i'm saying is wrong you can challenge my SWF group and try to 3 hook all of us, i can guarantee it won't happen, if you want to have any chance of winning like i said you need to slug, tunnel or camp. Using DS and unbreakable will make your slugging and tunneling much, much harder as well..
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I would rework DS that it de-activates if you go touch a generator. You obviously aren't tunneled if you can repair gens. Giving just plain 60 seconds immunity without real conditions is dumb. There has been perks nerfed for less such as pop which actually reguired you to hook a survivor and find right generator to use it for.
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@Customapple0 said:
1) Comparing DS & Pop again? The Pop nerf barely makes a difference most of the time while nerfing DS to 45s will make it useless. If DS needs a nerf it needs a full on rework, not a timer reduction which would make it useless.
2) Admittedly the nerf was unneeded, but now they made tier 3 useful. The 96m range doesn’t make a difference considering length wise each map is 128m maximum.
3) OoO doesn’t make too much of a difference. Chances are SWF will know your location and will be relaying it via comms anyway, OoO is literally just the icing on the cake. It only seriously negatively affects Trapper & Hag, while stealth killers are naturally immune to it when using their power. Also there’s plenty of perks that can give you the undetectable status effect & there’s third seal to counter aura reading perks.
4) Ah yes, the typical “survivors buy more cosmetics” argument.
5) “While ignoring an entire forum full of legitimate comparisons to DS” Again, not legitimate comparisons as you can’t just reduce the timer of DS without gutting it. It needs a full on rework.
6) How is OoO toxic? Using perks is toxic now? Just because some players play unfavourably with the perk equipped doesn’t make it the most toxic perk in the game.
DS needs changed so that it deactivates once you touch a generator. Cannot be tunneled if you can repair gens. Also just reducing the timer wouldn't make the perk useless.. 45 seconds is plenty of time to reach pallet or any loop which is the whole purpose of DS. Most of the time BT timer 15 secs is enough even if the killer is tunneling. 60 seconds is just ridiculously long.
OoO is toxic perk because it removes fun of the opposite side. You don't agree that running spirit with noed, ebony and other meta perks is toxic?
Yes OoO makes a huge difference with good SWF teams, that's why it's literally banned in all DBD tournaments. I mean we can go test it if you like. Your killer against my SWF, we will run the whole menu of survivor meta?
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You die on the ground in 4 minutes, not 10. Yes it's annoying and i think survivor should have option to end the game faster than that. But it is what it is. I personally just go to my desktop to do something useful while the killer sweats for his 4k. If you want to be really annoying you can DC so the last survivor has chance to get the hatch.
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Stats say that nurse needs good buffs. You cannot just cherry pick the statistics to fit your narrative
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@APoipleTurtle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1701362#Comment_1701362
I wouldn't be surprised if the stats they have on OoO aren't telling the full story.
It's probably in a situation somewhat similar to Nurse: we know Nurse is the most powerful killer in the game, but her actual kill rate is the lowest of all killers because of how hard she is to play (meaning most players will have plenty of terrible games before they either learn her or ditch her for another killer).
OoO is a very difficult perk to run as a solo survivor. Killers don't like seeing it and are more likely to be more aggressive towards any survivors they catch who were using it (meaning their escape chances with it are pretty low). Basically, it's very likely to get the user killed. However, it's insanely powerful when combined with SWF communication and coordination, which can potentially result in the OoO user playing a major part in getting the rest of their team out of a trial (even if they themselves don't make it).
This exactly. OoO is stupid OP when combined with SWF and voice communication, just because their stats say that the user often dies doesn't say the whole story. I mean even if the whole team died it's still frustrating to play against when you know the entire team has literal wall hacks staring at you. Almost like legion was nerfed/ reworked because he was annoying to play against and not particularly powerfull killer
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How can these stats be anywhere near accurate? If 4 survivors start working on different generators there should be at least 1-2 gens done even if they just idle on generators without moving away from the killer. Killer should move to individual generator, down and hook every single survivor under 20 seconds without getting generators done, let a lone 0,16 gens lmao. I think these are same boosted stats that showed 80% survivor escape rate once. I've seen literally speed hacking killers where survivors managed to do 3-4 gens before they all died
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@Kamizake12 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686020#Comment_1686020
This just assuming things at this point from you.
I think you are the one assuming.
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I don't blame you. If your teammates let you go second hook stage they are extremely incompetent. I used to sweat every breath so my teammates have chance to escape, but if they don't care abaut my fun i don't care abaut theirs.
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@Kamizake12 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1685857#Comment_1685857
Stop spreading lies, it WAS always intended, they didn't add it because of technical problems.
So yeah, nice bias, anyways we all know how biased you are towards killers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTpZSllfMmw&feature=emb_title
I think you missed the part where i specifically said in their streams 4 years ago.. it's not first time devs have flip flop their words. Let me give you some examples. "Killer was never intended to see hook auras" - few patches later "fixed the issue which prevented killer seeing hook auras" Also they claimed MM addons were bugged even the description specifically said what they are supposed to do, then they nerfed them
"infinites are mind games"
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1685857#Comment_1685857
It’s clearly intentional. It’s not like they “accidentally” added swfs and said “Oops, we never realized swfs would play on comms”. Of course they knew players would use comms in a swf, the devs even do it themselves!
Just because the game initially launched without swf support doesn’t mean they didn’t either change their mind on wanting to include it in the game and/or had planned all along for swfs to probably be added after launch but simply wanted to get the game out the door while it was in development.
And just because there are balance issues with swfs doesn’t mean the devs weren’t aware swfs would play on comms, it just means they didn’t fully consider how some aspects of play would be impacted by comms. Making a bad balance choice doesn’t make the choice unintentional.
It's hard to say if it was intended or not, but they themselves acknowledged the issue of 4 survivors using coms back then, and promised that survivors would get debuff somehow to compensate the power of coms. After that they have been mostly dodging all questions abaut SWF. Mclean has said in stream that "we know it's unbalanced" they just don't care as SWF is their meal ticket. Personally i would by completely nerfing OoO as it gives SWF survivors god mode when they know the killers exact location all the time and start limiting perks they can use. Just like in tournaments survivors aren't allowed to use their normal meta because killers would struggle to get any kills.
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@dugman said:
Swf isn’t cheating. Even the devs play in swfs in their streams, it’s clearly an intentional feature of the game that they expect a lot of people will play with their friends on comms.
It's not intender feature. Like 4 years ago in their early streams they brought SWF up when survivors started review bombing the game. Before they quickly added SWF they said that they would need to do "balance changes because 4 survivors on coms would be extremely unfair for the killer" or something along these lines. No balance changes were done.
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@ILoveDemo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1675553#Comment_1675553
How about no? We could Nerf Myc If you want, it is also a 60 sec. perk :)
Yes let's "nerf" MYC because tier 1 MYC with 40 seconds timer is actually STRONGER than 60 second one rofl 😂😂 So that's a good trade for DS nerf actually :)
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@DbDKisa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1675558#Comment_1675558
Um.... When you swing at the locker, the survivors usually instinctively leave the locker. But it lets them know you know they are in there. And 60 seconds isn't that long to wait while they are in there either.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1675557#Comment_1675557
You know when you play a game and while you look for something you never find it and then when you stop, its everywhere? Yea dude. That's how it is. And I stopped using it when blight released. For some reason after his release the toxicity went through the roof. And your point about me having it? Does that mean killers can see my perks? Cause I would have figured that doesn't apply unless I use Ms. Strode. Considering that means since its release all killers should assume players have it. Come on man. Please think first on that cause it hold absolutely no value if you don't use it... And remember that my whole post is not directed So let at you, bruh. Calm down on my tunneling comment. And it does counter tunneling. You just want it to be less effective... Especially since you think its a free escape. It has a risk. You just want It to have more
Have you ever actually ever played killer? do you understand how long 60 seconds actually IS for the killer? Killers time is 4x more valuable than survivors, this means that any second you waste chasing and messing with a SINGLE survivor could be 3x potential seconds on generator progress. So assuming survivor jumped into a locker what was next to a gen, that 40-60 seconds just waiting could be 120- 180 seconds generator progress, it's game over.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1674946#Comment_1674946
Games can die when they listen to their community. The community doesn't always know best.
Lets assume the devs listens to all the entitled killers and once again nerfs DS for its very so slight anti-momentum effects of a killer trying to killrush, then they need to explain to everyone why killers have a zillion anti-momentum, anti-objective perks, and nerfing an anti-momentum survivor perk when killrates are so astonishingly high.
Anti momentum perks are fine, for both. But they NEED some effort to make them work. DS reguires literally nothing other than get hooked (failing) here get this free 60 second immunity. It's badly designed perk, just like NOED currently is. People advocating that DS is balanced are obviously biased. Most killer stalling perks require you to do something, because passively they do nothing. The perk you disliked so much tinkerer does nothing if killer doesn't act on it, there are multiple limitations unlike DS has. So i hope they rework perks like Noed, DS, OoO in the future
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1674914#Comment_1674914
Giving it tweaks to make it convenient for one side is wrong. Giving it tweaks so the killer can abuse them is wrong. It's not strictly an anti-tunnel perk. You have something in your hand, it shouldn't disappear for arbitrary reasons to make it convenient for the killer.
Tinkerer should have never been buffed though, it is now unfair.
DS is getting nerfed whatever you like it or not, too many people are advocating for it. There are multiple devs saying when they released it that it should be anti tunneling perk. Scott jund proves that in his videos as well. So you cannot now flip flop that it was never anti tunneling perk.. old new was also anti momentum perk 😂😂
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1674857#Comment_1674857
And rightfully so, DS has already been nerfed so many times it has lost the meaning of decisive strike. Further nerfs to one side to increase the killrates even higher is what is laughable. Tinkerer directly punishes the survivor for doing the objective and rewards killer with undetectable status for doing nothing. Certainly sounds so much stronger than DS to me.
Right.. then we should advocate that both the perks get nerfed. Sounds fair right. But honestly DS needs small tweaks that it disabled once you go touch a generator. You obviously aren't being tunneled
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1673475#Comment_1673475
That doesn't matter because you are still able to stop the objective from being completed because a perk punished the other side for doing it. A fast killer will always be able to get there. How is that fair? Imagine if DS could be used "multiple times" to stop your objective regardless of being tunneled. That's the power of tinkerer.
DS is only a one time use. Tinkerer has no way to turn it off and can be used multiple times. Totally unfair.
If you suspect DS, why aren't you hitting them instead of grabbing them? Killers love to invent these scenarios that try to portray a perk as being too strong when in fact you are using the fully meta loadout that is oppressive.
Comparing tinkerer and DS is laughable. We all know DS is miles above tinkerer in terms of power. If devs announced tomorrow that devs will nerf both DS and tinkerer survivors would throw fit.
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There are very easy solutions to fix DS. Keep the way it is, but it de-activates if you perform offensive action like repairing a gen or save a survivor from hook. At bare minimum the timer should go 2x speed if you repair, clean totems etc. I would still keep the locker play if the killer is soft camping the basement you can enter the locker without risk of getting slugged down there in the basement.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1664655#Comment_1664655
Getting to 35% wiggle state was not hard. If you were in swf you could easily bodyblock. Also hook spacing wasnt as bad back in those days you actually had to go somewhere to get hooks.
Enduring did counter it but with the number of pallets and how tiles worked back in the day it was fair. Larger maps, closer tiles, more pallets. Nobody ran unnerving it was a waste of an perk slot.
You needed good perks to weaken survivors overwhelming power. New ds doesnt avoid first hook which btw stopped the killer from even progressing towards their objective.
Do you understand that the killers couldnt even achieve map pressure, and had to go through another pallet eating chase. With how survivor worked back then old DS was simply broken.
You could say new DS is more broken because of how it works after hooks and how powerful it is at end game but really I think people forget old DS combined with all the op survivor stuff. Dont forget prepatch 2.0 vacuum pallets with old DS
I've played since 2016 and trust me, new DS is stronger than the old one which reguired you to wiggle. Cannot tell how many times DS saved me as a survivor, it's amazing perk but definitely too OP at current stage
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It's hard to balance wraith because he is a noob stomper. Low ranks survivors already hate him because they don't know if he is coming. But Wraith would be in decent spot if they added 10-15% more speed while cloaked, then you could use his power more offensively as well to close the distance while in chase
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I think every meta perk from both sides need some nerfing. Survivors practically ran the same build for years now, it usually have exhaustion perk, DS, BT and then alternatives like iron will / unbreakable. Most of the perks just need number adjustment rather than massive reworks.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1659096#Comment_1659096
You did mention how killer perms being changed could be applied to survivor perks and I gave a reason to why they can't using DS as an example.
You know have to be hooked. Which IMHO is the biggest nerf of them all. You could avoid hooks with old DS. This one you cant.
You can avoid hooks with new DS. Old DS could avoid the first hook if hooks weren't close enough, but it also had more drawbacks like enduring was a soft counter to stun, unnerving made skill check extremely hard to hit, skill check was literally 2x smaller than it is now. Also now if you kobe, get saved decently close to exit gates, Killer can only down you and you can crawl out of exit gates while killer can do nothing but watch. New DS is stronger than the old one
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@TheClownIsKing said:
Just because DS hasn’t yet been changed, doesn’t mean it is not being looked into. It’s a tricky perk to balance.
DS is not tricky perk to balance. Quite simple actually. It should work same as now but DS should de-activate if you perform action like repairing generators etc. If you can repair gens you aren't being tunneled
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@LittilAvindar said:
As I repeatedly point out, DS used to be built-in, and only last for 15 seconds after the survivor came off the hook, but killers were unhappy that they couldn't use the "strategy" known as tunneling right off a hook. Maybe you legitimately feel different here, but it seems the real issue is that survivors have a counter to tunneling. Whether it was the original built-in counter, or the current 60-second, single use counter that survivors have managed to make an offensive perk. It doesn't bother me that it upsets killers. The only reason it exists to begin with is because many killers decided that camping/tunneling were reasonable strategies. As such, survivors needed a means to counter those. As many times as killers want to say it, the strategy is not to simply not get caught. As I've mentioned on other threads complaining about this, there is no such thing as not getting caught.
Devs have forced survivors to get up close and personal with killers because of the ranking system. If they don't do that, then they de-rank. If they do, they inevitably wind up in a chase. If they wind up in a chase, the killer has a number of built-in advantages, from ever-increasing speed, to the fact that pallets are limited, to the powers and perks they get to bring in themselves. Take away all the perks and add-ons, and the killers still have the speed-advantage. Unless the survivor can juke the killer, as long as the killer commits, they will absolutely win the chase.
DS and pop cannot be compared, because DS is a single-use perk, and Pop can be used every time someone is hooked. The argument you make seems to stem around each survivor carrying it, but, again, because of the ranking system, each survivor has to protect themselves. I may not bring DS because I think a killer will tunnel or camp me; it may be because I expect a stupid teammate to unhook me right in front of the killer's face, minus borrowed time. If I have to be punished for the mistakes of my teammates, despite the ranking system demanding I worry about number 1 here, then I'm not super concerned if killers feel punished on the off-chance that everyone brings in a DS. Most of the time, I never get to use it anyway, because the killer either slugs me, or I run the killer long enough that they can't down me in time for me to be able to use it. Yes, I will admit that toward the end-game, I try to use it offensively, but more often than not, that doesn't work for me, as it takes longer than 60 seconds to come off a hook, get healed, go try to pull someone off the hook, let them get away as I take the hit, and then get picked up. The ONLY time it's ever really worked in the end-game is if the killer is trying to slug, and I force them to pick me up by crawling toward the exit. That is literally it.
Those plays could be countered by not hooking people two feet from the exit. You want to taunt people by putting them on a hook near the exit gate or the hatch, then that's what happens. My absolute favorite video on Reddit involves a Ghostface hooking a survivor right next to the hatch, and proceeding to bag right in front of him. He 4% and hopped right into the hatch. Absolutely deserved.
I played the game since mid 2016 and DS was never built in for 15 seconds. Not sure where you got this fact
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@IshinSolarc said:
DS is from the most bought DLC, since 80% of the playerbase are survivors, it's obvious why they won't adress the issue...
Rofl no way. Is it actually THAT high? if that's the case they will never dare to change DS as it will hurt their money