Brimp
Brimp
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@xGodSendDeath said:
Just don't tunnel! Boom, perk countered. Go apply pressure
Except… if you want to win against competent survivors tunneling or higher tier killers is basically required. And not everyone wants to play higher tier killers.
In fact I could use this same argument for survivors when they complained about pentimento. Don't like pentimento? Just do bones or run counterforce or a map. -
"They are designed to do one thing: Add a layer of protection if the killer chooses to make a
specificchoice."
Yes or otherwise known as a second chance. Just because the killer doesn't do said option doesn't not make it a second chance perk. Oh you guys played bad by grouping up against a killer that can get fast downs? Well here's another shot with unbreakable! Sure you still might not win after the pressure your team has on them but you still got that second chance to bring it back.I'm just glad they're making second chance perks more conditional.
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@thrawn3054 said:
Does rarity actually matter to anyone? Not trying to take away from your accessibility concerns as that certainly needs to be looked at when making these kinds of changes. I just never thought rarity mattered to anyone.
It was just a change that didn't need to happen. No one asked for the color change especially me because it was changed to be more in line with rarities in other games from what I can tell. But that's what made it unique.
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Yeah rip Penti. Sure it needed nerfs but nothing THIS bad. All because some people didn't want to take off second chance #4 or medkit to run an anti-totem perk or map.
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911158#Comment_3911158
Then let's ban everything because everything can be problematic, bugged or exploitable.
Nice try. There are very little things more problematic than potential infinites.
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911155#Comment_3911155
potentially allowing an infinite
So killers didn't find any BL infinites so far?
Seema like not a problem to me.
Just because it hasn't been found yet doesn't prove it can't be a problem. If anything I'm noticing people run builds with haste stacking like power of two or blood pact.
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@wakesafe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911150#Comment_3911150
I know what an infinite is. Nurse is right there. You mention Kaneki who is extremely bugged rn (including insta down no counterplay) and isn’t killswitched. They do not use the killswitch for these things.
They use killswitch for game breaking things. And potentially allowing an infinite IS game breaking. Just because X thing exists doesn't excuse THIS one not to be kill switched. Don't change the subject.
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@wakesafe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911107#Comment_3911107
No, it isn’t. Harder to catch Survivors is not what the killswitch is for.
So I take it you don't know what an infinite is? Because infinites mean the average killer, not talking about nurse, kaneki etc, would not be able to catch up no matter what they did. It was the whole reason why balanced was nerfed to have the speed boost at all levels so people couldn't keep it at tier 2 to keep JUST the fall stagger reduction.
Again allowing for infinites again is broken. -
@LockerLurk said:
Do we know for a fact this perk is glitched, or did they do this on purpose?
The perk literally has in its description "Balanced landing can NOT be used while exhausted" meaning while exhausted the perk is essentially shut off. And it still reducing fall stagger while exhausted is a bug.
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@wakesafe said:
Ghoul has tons of bugs rn he is not kill switched. When Merciless Storm reset gens it was not kill switched. Kill switch is reserved for game breaking bugs.
Allowing for infinites is game breaking.
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@adam1233467 said:
Yes, they are gone, but you still can do it with a flashbang or any fire crackers, but the timing for this is very difficult.
You can do it with regular flashlights too.
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Well get ready for it to stay like this a while because this event incentivizes nothing but tunneling with how fast gens go.
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While huntress does indeed have large hitboxes theres also the issue of BHVR and what feels like dollar store servers. The worse the servers the worse the hits get when especially games usually favor the attacker.
Same things happen to killers in terms of "big" pallet hitboxes. Personally had an encounter where I walked away from the pallet and it vacuumed me back into it to get stunned. -
Well from what I see. Blood gens can ONLY be regressed by base kicks and natural regression and they take way less time to complete. Given that NORMAL gens can be completed really fast making the blood ones faster without a way to regress them, a meaningful amount was not a smart choice. More BP for the event is all it really needed.
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No he most definitely needs a nerf. I've never seen a ghoul outside of Enraged state beyond the start and very end of the game. That third leap is really game changing and having that for 90% of the game is incredibly good. Not to mention he gets, free first injure WITH deep wound, pre nerf chucky scamper, insane map mobility/pressure, insane addons and some decent tech to put the cherry on top. Like someone else has said in another post. This is as close as we get to nurse in another killer matched only by PTB rework twins.
Any good Ghoul player would show you why hes really good. -
@Mikempk67 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3903952#Comment_3903952
If they don't make more strong killers, people are only going to gravitate towards the killers that are still strong regardless. IMO, I think S tier for a killer that can't down with their power is a bit too high. Pretty much every S tier killer can injure and down with their power instead of only one of those things. The perks Made For This and Resilience can mess with Ghouls pretty hard,.and those two perks are solo queue friendly as well so pretty much anyone can use them and get benefits against Ghoul players. I think this killer just needs time to settle to find out for sure but I'd say A tier at best.
I have yet to see a ghoul be screwed over by resi and MFT and I've been watching a good one for a while now. What's the MFT gonna do when Kaneki has pre nerf chucky scamper? Or they're just on your back with umbrella decreasing the fatigue by 10%. Or the addons that just reveal survivors auras for free basically.
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Yeah hes pretty insane. Free injury, can't greed against him, can't W away because he will cut you off with his grapple. Borderline blight level and possibly past. Oh yeah deep wound just to throw it in there too.
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Tunneling is always valid. You might not agree the killer needs to do that at that time but its always a valid choice.
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@Shaped said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3903246#Comment_3903246
It's more puzzling because they have blight pfp. If it was one of the killers without mobility maybe I would understand, but he did say top killers need nerfs so maybe it's a trade lol.
I would glady see a blight, spirit and nurse gut if that meant lower tiers/exhaustion being changed accordingly.
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3903241#Comment_3903241
SB, Lithe and possibly dramaturgy needs to be looked at etc.
I don't even know how someone could respond on killers complaining about Sprint Burst, Lithe or even Dramaturgy.
Literally.
Well heres the thing. Exhaustion perks like lithe, sb and sometimes dramaturgy literally just carry games because lower tiers don't have much to combat it other than situational anti-exhaustion perks. If all the killers were around the same strength then those perks would be a lot less of an anomaly in balancing.
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Both sides need some serious balancing. Lower tier killers need buffs, higher tiers need nerfs, SB, Lithe and possibly dramaturgy needs to be looked at etc.
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Yeah idk. After the survey in what January I think? They asked a bunch of stuff about how people feel about slugging. And from what I've heard it was mainly from the survivor perspective.
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So getting hit egregiously over pallets is a purely a product of the killers ping. You aren't meant to "out run" the killer you're meant to buy time for your team to the point its the killers decision to stop chasing you or keep chasing you.
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It's alright. Definitely strong when it first came out but over time people naturally know the counterplay now so Unknown is kinda weak.
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@MoZo said:
because you’re not advancing the objective
Depending on the situation. You kinda are if you're giving your teammate more time in chase that equates to more time on gens.
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Honestly good. Said this a couple times and will say this again. Their comments/reasoning towards the xeno changes in the first place could be paraphrased down to "skill issue".
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@Defnotmeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893354#Comment_3893354
Survivors were literally "punished" for using haste perks too well to the point that they became a group of perks. Killers are using Grim Embrace too well with other gen regression perks through tunnelling. So honestly, it would make sense for killers to have perks that are stronger than they are now as long as all survivors are alive, but either be deactivated or weakened when survivors are dying.
Aka, early to mid game perks. The opposite of end game perks that dont have any effect or very little effect during the game, but have significant power once gens are gone.
And you can argue that survivors could have similar types of perks, like anti-tunnel perks that are 150% their current power at 4-5 gens, but 70% of their current power at 1-3 gensI'd still want exhaustion to be disabled when a certain amount of gens are done. They do exactly the same thing Grim Embrace does, buy time. Except exhaustion is WAY more available than Grim and way better in the majority of scenarios.
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When exhaustion perks get disabled whenever 2-3 gens are left then we can agree upon deactivating grim when a survivor is dead.
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"nerfed" flashlights have never been easier. 360's only worked on bad killers which conveniently people push in montages.
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@ProveKa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892076#Comment_3892076
why are you so worried Or will your anti camp tricks not work? If you're not camping, this perk doesn't mean anything to you anyway.
Yeah here's the thing. If you play to win in this PVP game there are times you NEED to camp to win.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892049#Comment_3892049
By this logic you are saying Reassurance is OP.
Well yes it is. But Reassurance isnt the topic of the discussion. If we made each survivor able to survive ONE extra minute on the hook you would see even less hooking.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892017#Comment_3892017
Who here said we should make it 68 seconds?
Reassurance is applied twice per hook. I feel like this perk should too.
Making it apply per hook state is exactly as it sounds from OP. 68 seconds of extra hang time.
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34 extra seconds is already very strong. We do NOT need to make it 68.
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@HeroLives said:
going next against a pig is wild.
People will go next against trapper. There truly is no end to the pettiness.
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Nah we need the go next fix now. Would rather them implement it asap and work out the kinks sooner than later.
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1v4 is an alright spot. He suffers on large maps like most no mobility M1's despite his zombies. Personally I would have traded the random .5 meter range buff and faster movespeed while holding the tentacle out he got to t3 for something like maybe a long range pickup for maybe the cost of longer time to get to T3 while making 6 meters his T1 range.
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Well from what I've seen 2v8 has always been in favor of the survivors. Even more so no that the yellow herb can just give you back a hook state.
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Yeah there is little to no testing on BHVRs end for their patches. The Icing on the cake is now this is the THIRD patch (second dedicated bug fix patch) to claim spirits husk audio is fixed. Haven't played yet so I do not know if this is in fact true.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882487#Comment_3882487
Apparentely in this guys matches, which are mostly soloQ.
They are dealing with reassurance, DS, DH, OTR, and Shoulder.
All being used, much less used at all, perfectly.
And this is why they say tunneling is required.
Obviously they are mad that one game they made a misplay of tunneling one survivor that had DS/DH and now they are trying to use that as EVERY survivor they encounter has this.
When in reality it was a single survivor that got them with this.
Lets just ignore the fact that slugging doesnt require perks, at all to do. But its counter requires everything in the other direction, including coordination.
Bad faith arguments.Slugging does not counter comms. It counteres unhook perks yes but there's plenty of anti slug perks which also decimate slugging. It's called changing playstyles according to what you notice is a majority of your matches.
Let me ask you this. If you noticed a majority of your matches contained at least 8 unhook perks or perks that synergize with unhook perks would you not just slap on a build that doesn't rely on hooks for value? -
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882486#Comment_3882486
I'm not sure I see how?
Shoulder the Burden only really has one very specific scenario in which it's even useful outside of the killer trying to tunnel, and because of the Exposed effect it can even backfire pretty badly.
The extra ten seconds per hook stages realistically aren't going to matter unless you're trying to force someone to progress hook stages without being unhooked, which was already kind of a losing proposition most of the time anyway. If survivors leave their teammates on the hook for longer, that's more time for you to generate pressure, which is to your benefit and not theirs.
The anti face camp system barely works for what it's supposed to do, you definitely don't have to worry about this mechanic unless you're literally trying to face camp.
None of these things actually benefit the survivors unless you play into them. Don't stick by the hook and don't concentrate all your attention on the guy who just got unhooked, that's already how you'd play killer more effectively. The fact that it thwarts these supposed second chance perks is a bonus.
A single lithe or sprint burst negates the exposed from STB. The anti face camp works a bit too well for what its meant to do because face camping isn't sitting 20 meters from hook. The ten extra seconds per hook stage allows for even more greed while giving the survivors more time to unhook even when you try to punish them for waiting so long to unhook. Oh yeah hook grabs got removed so trading against most killers is just free.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882476#Comment_3882476
That really just shifts my question of what got worse to a little further back. Outside of niche mechanics that reign in specific unbalanced playstyles, like the AFC mechanic and the basekit BT… nothing's changed. Hooks are as they've always been.
I just don't see what you have to deal with that's added up over the years, that's my main hangup here. It's basically been the same general shape of stuff you might have to deal with - you might have to deal with a flashlight or pallet save, you might have to deal with anti tunnel used aggressively - and all that's changed is which tools are being used for it.
I can't even really say the modern tools are stronger considering you can't weaponise DS anymore, so post-unhook aggression is inherently weaker. Maybe Flashbang is stronger than flashlights? But even then, hardly something that'd actually weaken hooks overall.
STB, +20 seconds on hook per survivor and anti face camp. Stack those upon the 2nd chances, STB or reassurance then hooking just benefits the survivors more if you want to win.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882475#Comment_3882475
Nightlight has been shown, 4 times now, to be 1:1 from the developers released stats. Enough with the cope on it "being 3rd party"
OTR DS DH?
So your problem is with perks that only activate after a hook?
So….again do you only want to play against survivors that are perkless? Im just trying to understand your reasoning for slugging.
You say you avoid the "survivor meta".First down you dont have to worry about any of that.
So you just dont want to hook… at all?
Again, I put that up there in the first post. The hooks are in the game for a reason, survivors have health states for a reason.
Not to bypass them.
Which would be…. easy mode if you could.
Your posts are coming off as being very very…. VERY, odd at playing killer as a role.I want to play a game where 3 second chances arent thrown into my face when im not even tunneling. The hooks are there for you to use at YOUR discretion not because "its there so use it". Just because the first down doesnt have meta doesnt mean it wont come back after they get unhooked. Especially when the game has been watered down so much where if 2-3 gens aren't popping around first chase… the survivors did something wrong. And having 4 survivors at 2-3 gens should be an incredibly easy match. With slugging you're constantly pressuring because you arent wasting time to walk to a hook giving the survivors 7-15 seconds extra each to work on a gen.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882472#Comment_3882472
What basekit additions, though? The only basekit additions we've gotten even semi recently are, what, the extra time on the hook? That's not something you're even gonna notice nine times out of ten, and the tenth time has a good chance of being in your favour as killer.
I can understand hook perks being nerfed as a thing that makes hooks weaker in sort of a holistic sense, but realistically, what you get out of hooks hasn't actually changed if you aren't specifically running Pop. Pain Res hasn't been changed in a while and non-hook related regression perks haven't changed, so… it's just Pop, and if you aren't looking at perks at all, hooks are just as strong as they've ever been.
For unhook perks, I mean, which ones do you actually have to worry about as killer if you aren't tunnelling? Dead Hard, Reassurance, We'll Make It… that's kinda it, right?
I just don't see hooks being weaker now than they've been in the past, personally. Nothing's actually changed about the value of hooks.
It doesnt have to be recent. Its over the course of multiple years. They just all added up to this point where people realize its better. Which personally I foresaw this ever since they buffed the haste on the basekit BT which the endurance is fine the haste is just overkill.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882467#Comment_3882467
Its an easy mode button.
It was made worse by the idiot decision for last survivor mori as well.https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/1F6AOY1JX8MG/image.png
Pain res and pop are still the most common used perks.
With BBQ the third.
ALL of them hook perks.
With pain res being basically TWICE PICKED than any other killer perk.
All the forum whiney posts saying as well that you need to run gen regression too would be contradictory to saying hooking isnt worth it.
People saying there is little reason to hook or a detriment are just horrific at the killer role and need to git good, or just not be bad you dont even need to be good at killer. Just not bad.Its just not. Also knight light is still a third party source that documents a MINORITY of stats but if you're so adamant… 4 out of the 10 perks in the top 10 used are directly linked to hooking. Only TWO of them being regression and the other is aura reading/gen stall. You definitely see surge climbing because its good and doesnt need the song and dance of go through 3 health state chases for the regression because someone runs across the map with their OTR and if i down them they have DS dead hard.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882467#Comment_3882467
I know this isn't really the point of the thread but I do have to ask - what do you mean by hooking getting worse and worse? What's even changed about the basic value from hooking recently?
Base kit additions and nerfing the hook perks. Mainly Pop and pain res. 30% was worth it on lower tiers but 20% isnt. Pain res all though instant regression removing the extra 20%… Its a multitude of things. Mainly me and a lot of people seeing upwards of 12 unhook perks that you can just ignore by slugging.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882444#Comment_3882444
There is plenty enough
People just have hard copium thinking the majority of their matches are against coordinated survivors(the only real counter to slugging).
The fact and reason slugging is so successful is because that is not the case.
I dont do this stupid crap and win easily over 70% of my matches(i am under selling myself a lot here its probably 90%+). Legion I cant even remember the last time I 2/2, much less lost. Plague had a recent draw.
Killer players just need to get good because thats all it takes to win the majority of your matches. Not be terrible.It's not some easy mode button. You slug and you ignore the current meta from survivor being unhook perks. Thats what I thought being good is, to adapt which slugging ignores unhook perks. Even in solo if they are prepared for it other than the obvious being knockout it can still come down to the wire.
And despite all this hooking keeps getting worse and worse meaning more incentive to slug. -
@ChuckingWong said:
I would just do baskit unbreakable and have the perk do something else.
You should be interacting with the hooks, thats why the devs put them there.Slugging should be a short term thing, not disabling several minutes for multiple people in a match.
Faster bleedouts would just make slugging MORE prevalent. We dont need that.What is needed is hooking to be more enticing. We're at a point in the game where getting hooked can actually benefit the survivors more than killer because of base kit additions and killers hook perks getting nerfed.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3881201#Comment_3881201
Nope.
It's easy to do, and hard to counter. And content creators started promoting it.
That's the entire reason right there.
All of those changes were about 6 months before this "slugging meta" began, and are just the typical excuse of "if you buff me and nerf them this will go away". That has never worked for camping and tunneling, and won't work here either.
The only thing that will work is what they've done with other similar bully style "strategies" that aren't intended by normal gameplay, like 3 genning for an hour, intending to escape via hatch as a team from the lobby, and double locker saves. Those took a base kit mechanic to make it impossible to pull off indefinitely to finally kill those "strategies" too.
What that looks like, I don't know. But BHVR send to be looking into this problem.
Every point they said was an actual reason. People were folliwing the content creators just to follow them when the creators themselves knew the reasons why slugging is just more appealing. Personally I foresaw this being a thing for months because I'm not willingly ignorant like some people in the dbd community.
There are 3x as many reasons to go for slugging rather than hooking.
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@BorisDDAA said:
This is no different than the gen kicking strat outrage or any nerf in dbd history. When BHVR removes broken toys, people moan and move to the next thing that takes less effort to do while trying to find 1000 excuses to justifiy it. Hooking is no different than years ago. The majority of killers I see hook people and win. Knockout needs a rework and bleedouts to bm/waste time should be addressed.
Except hooking is different? It is legit just better for the survivors if you hook them rather than slug them. Hooking them makes you take more time to hook, they get their unhook perks and the basekit changes to hooks for survivors.
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While they're at it fix dropping a flashbang inside a killers model. Stupid how you can be looking at a wall and still get blinded by it.