Blueberry
Blueberry
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Not quite depipping, but I’d like if survivors on the hook received a portion of their teammmates earned blood points. This would incentivize them to hold on for their team and buy them time. Would also make them feel less punished for being camping/tunneled.
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I personally would be in favor of built in voice chat but I know there’s a very vocal crowd against it. It’s of the few solutions to solo/swf balance problems.
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It’s tough. It sucks being tunneled out and tilts us in the moment, but at the same time I play killer too so I get it. It’s always the smarter move to get someone out. So we tend to get angry at them in the moment but realistically we’re more upset at the development choices that make it so optimal than we are the players utilizing it. You’re not going to win in high mmr matches against swf groups without some variation of tunneling unless they’re either playing very badly that game or you’re literally just way more skilled than them. If it’s even skilled your hand is forced. You aren’t winning an equally skilled match going for a 12 hook game without those aforementioned scenarios.
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They currently balance for a very, very low skill solo queue survivor group. Which is why at higher mmr its completely a mess and we have all the balance issues that we do.
People also vastly exaggerate the amount of full solo queue groups. There are way more swf groups than people act like, especially at higher mmr. Like 20% of my matches are actually full on solo queue groups and that’s being generous, aka the minority. Even just having duos makes a world of a difference. The difference between me being solo and bringing my one bud is like a 30% increased win rate at least.
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@jajay119 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497748#Comment_3497748
It's an issue when it's done to multiple survivors at the same time (often repearedly) and you're just left to bleed our or cannot get anything done. This type of play is becoming endemic at the moment. It's happening multiple times a day when I'm playing.
To be honest, BHVR need to stop trying to placate killers at the moment because despite every update given to them to discourage scummy behaviour they just play that way more because its easier. The multiple killers who moaned about needing to camp/tunnel because 'dead hard was busted' only to then turn around after the nerf and say 'haha yeah I just did it cause it was easy and I'll continue now that it's even easier' was a massive marker of the beginning of this behaviour and its only got worse.
Yeah we totally disagree then. They’ve given nearly zero things to discourage killers from camping or tunneling and if anything they placate the average/bad survivor, not killer. Most killer also don’t just tunnel because it’s easier, it’s because of how extremely unbalanced the game is. You also act like dead hard was not objectively busted, everyone knew this. As well as leaving out all the survivor buffs happening simultaneously to counteract those things for killer. The game has and still does cater to a very low skill level solo queue survivor which is why we have all the balance problems we do.
Lastly slugging multiple survivors is not an issue and they’re generally not being left to bleed out, they’re being left to force other survivors off gens to pick them up, aka pressuring gens. The only version of this that’s a problem is when all 4 survivors are on the ground and left there to bleed out, but this is extremely rare and not worth even mentioning. Also, if multiple survivors are getting simultaneously slugged then either y’all are having a very bad game or the killers is just way more skilled. In even skilled matches that isn’t happening.
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Yeah most the pallets on that map are safe and they’re extremely numerous. To add to that most of them are low wall loops, meaning zero potential for mind games. They’re literally just time wasters.
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Normal slugging is fine, but the bleeding people out thing isn’t fine. That said, the bleeding people out thing is so rare that it’s not an issue that needs dressing.
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New DH is still AT LEAST A tier. You are extremely undervaluing how good it is. I get a guaranteed 2 extra health states now since no one respects it. Stacks perfectly with MFT as well. Still one of the best perks in the game.
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No rework needed. Just improve her crouch and ambush and make some addons base kit. Now she’s good.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498056#Comment_3498056
somehow, the survivor mental gymnastic that they should not need to learn how to loop an m1 killer or play well with survivor and then you get these type of entitled posts of "I want to d/c" vs x killer. makes little sense. I agree with your post. the mori is as easy as survivors play around it. don't play around the mori, easy mori. play around with mori and loop well. harder mori.
For real that’s what it feels like. People act like she gets free hits without chasing as if she’s a wraith or something. She’s barely passable as a stealth killer with a lullaby and has to chase for her hits as an m1 with no power lol
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@Luckyfer said:
He needs to be 115 for starters!
Secondly he needs something to deal with loops and not be a downgraded Huntress!
I feel like making them 115% is a bandaid fix and less interesting. I’d rather keep him slow but make him strong enough to warrant be slower.
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Midwich is actually one of my favorite maps on both sides so I wouldn’t like any changes there.
Garden of Pain and Borgo are two definite standouts that are the most in need of a rework as they are extremely unbalanced.
Red Forest is still way too large to be balanced well. Ormond and Asylum can be thrown in there as well.
In general all the maps needs to be shrunk down to give or take around the size of Coal Tower to be better balanced.
Large maps are a flaw in design as they allow hold w gameplay that no one enjoys. When you’re on a map the size of Coal Tower hold w is way less prominent as it actually forces the players to play the tiles.
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Honestly after they nerfed all the 3 gen perks to where they’re essentially dead now I don’t really think 3 genning is an issue anymore. It’s more of a SM issue really, which does need fixing.
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Any limitations?
I like the idea but how could I not just keep them perpetually searching boxes the entire match?
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Totally reasonable. I was giving him buffs for being weak but he does have some fundamental design flaws so a rework would work as well and would probably be better.
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I’d like if his daggers stayed in survivors. They could choose to ignore them but then they’re closer to injure next time he finds them or spend an animation time pulling them out.
This gives him a little bit of built in slow down and encourages him to spread pressure with his daggers on multiple people even if he knows he won’t hit them with enough to injure.
Give him a smaller TR while you’re at it.
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Special mention for Skull Merchant needing a complete redesign as well.
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@nodforkiss said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498478#Comment_3498478
if only every map was balanced like midwich
Ideally I’d pick Coal Tower myself. It’s a fair chance of winning for both sides. I do generally like Midwich on both sides though.
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Chucky sounds like a fit.
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Myers or Freddy both sound like reasonable choices.
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@Wahara said:
This is literally why stuff like gen slow down gets stacked because they're too afraid to make chase and stealth perks good.
Well, I'll take part of that back. They have been giving stealth perks some love. Plaything is balanced, Trails of torment is decent now, I just think hysteria needs its notification removed for how short it lasts.
This ^
When it comes down to it dbd is a time management game and everyone stacks slow down because “most” of the chase/info/stealth perks aren’t good enough to save as much time as just stacking more slow down perks. Essentially most of them are all way undertuned to be competitive with slow down perks. They play it way too safe on them.
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For real. It’s silly that it even exists. At least give us the option to turn it off for ourselves. I actually think most people would turn it off given the option.
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I disagree, I enjoy map offerings. The issue isn’t the offerings, the issue is map design. If the maps were balanced well offerings wouldn’t be an issue.
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Yeah there is tons of untapped potential for future licensed and unlicensed killers if they reached into the non humanoid pool. Really hope they start doing this as it’s currently a missed opportunity.
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Im gonna guess FNAF but my hope is Alien. Alien seems so big that it would have to be an anniversary chapter I feel like.
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@BreadSilence said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498092#Comment_3498092
except you're not doing more when slugged compared to being on the hook. Holding down a button to slowly recover is the same as hitting skillchecks while in Struggle phase. You're only other argument for why slugging is somehow less boring than being hooked essentially boils down to "dedicate you're build to situational niche perks" just to avoid/counter an annoying and unnecessary but fairly uncommon playstyle. This is like telling the average killers that going against Boil Over sabo squads isn't frustrating because " you can just run Agitation, Iron Grasp, old Hangmans Trick etc and keep slugging everyone at the cost of not getting as much Sacrifice points etc"
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498069#Comment_3498069
Well at least you admit you don't know what grass is.
No, you’re strawmanning again. That isn’t what I said or what my argument actually was. I listed other things than what you quoted. You’re giving counter arguments for points that aren’t my points.
As I mentioned with the others there’s no need to insult me when we’re simply having a conversation on topics we disagree. If you have counter arguments that type of thing shouldn’t be necessary.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497751#Comment_3497751
i still down the bots. i have seen people complain they cannot down bots. that is funny.
Yeah I’m not talking about downing them. If you can do them at loop where they literally can’t see you it’s interesting to watch the movement.
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@devotedDBDenjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498092#Comment_3498092
I never insulted you, either. Way to play the victim because I told you your line of argument (which is saying subjective opinions = objective facts because *you* said so) was embarrassing. It's clear to me you have to use outside means of speaking (which is funny and hypocritical) to make me look worse in order to win a forums argument, so you can have your forums win since you want it so bad that you resulted in making things up, I'll just be playing survivor and enjoying being hooked over being slugged in peace and quiet, you genuinely aren't worth my time or effort.
Saying that someone is "embarrassing themselves" is attempting to insult them. It isn't playing the victim. "you genuinely aren't worth my time or effort." Yes, calling someone low value and not worth your time is insulting someone.
"Way to play the victim because I told you your line of argument was embarrassing"
We can all go back and read it. You did not say my line of argument was embarrassing, you stated I was embarrassing myself. Quite different.
"which is saying subjective opinions = objective facts because *you* said so"
That is in fact not what I said at all. You are strawmanning what I actually said.
"t's clear to me you have to use outside means of speaking (which is funny and hypocritical) to make me look worse in order to win a forums argument"
I didn't use outside speaking. I'm simply pointing out the flaws in your argument and allowing you to come to the conclusion on your own. You're getting very defensive in our disagreements. We're just having a calm conversation with differing thoughts, which is great. There's really no need to make this personal with subtle jabs at me through condescending tone. I'm not being sarcastic when I say I enjoy conversations like this where people disagree, it's why I like the forums, these are great discussions to have with differing ideas.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498099#Comment_3498099
Take it however you like. If you see me saying probability isn't as simple as 'I play fifty matches a day so I should technically encounter a slugging Onryo every so often' as an insult then you do you.
"fifty matches" is not at all what I said in any way. I would say that was a terrible sample size, that's strawmanning my argument.
You were attempting to be subtly insulting implying my failure to learn probability.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498069#Comment_3498069
In reality it really isn't. If you learnt probability properly in maths, you would know.
I have and your statement is inaccurate. No need for subtle insults towards me, we're just having a conversation.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498075#Comment_3498075
Bad matchmaking is why solo queue is bad. It literally defines solo queue. We are arguing about Onryo being overpowered in solo queue. Also I don't get cut off from a teleport, I get condemned because I end up being injured when I get taken by surprise so the tape goes with it. That's the problem.
Then you agree with me. Onryo isn't the issue, bad matchmaking is. If you consistently got good teammates you'd have no issue with her as the scenarios you described would not be happening.
"Taken by surprise" So Onryo wasn't the issue, you said you messed up and got surprised. So this scenario again wasn't Onryo, you said it was you making a mistake.
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@devotedDBDenjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498077#Comment_3498077
The "facts" you listed were "while on the ground you can crawl, recovery, run multiple anti slug perks and have a second chance at life"
While on hook, you can run perks like Deliverance / Slippery Meat and Up the Ante to get yourself off the hook, whilst also having a second chance at life, and you can do a funny hook dance while on first stage. How is this objectively worse than being slugged? It just .... isn't. Hate to break it to you, but don't decide what other people find fun in this game, no matter how many hours you put into it. I personally find being on hook a lot more fun than being on the ground because that's just my personal opinion, my opinion isn't objective. It's subjective. Just like your opinion isn't objective. Please stop this line of argument. It's embarrassing.
I will agree there is a subjective marker IF they are running those perks. However, an exception doesn't disprove the general rule. In 99% of cases it is objective.
What people find fun is subjective. However that is not what you're describing. The option on hook is, "do nothing". Anything, is objectively more fun than nothing. If there was any "realistic" play making to do on the hook "generally speaking" then I would agree with you.
Just because you don't agree doesn't mean you need to resort to insulting. I focus on the subject matter of the conversation and provide counter arguments, not insulting the other person.
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@devotedDBDenjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498068#Comment_3498068
you can't say being slugged is objectively less boring as it's a subjective opinion :)
Its not subjective, it’s objective. I gave facts why as well.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498056#Comment_3498056
It's not relevant if I have a full team slugged and I'm the only one that can loop. Doesn't matter much anyway if she teleports to every new loop I go to to mori me. The mori is mindlessly easy in solo queue, let's not lie.
What you just described was losing because of bad teammates, not killer design. If that scenario is happening y’all either played very badly or the killer was just way higher skilled. Either way they should be winning. Those scenarios don’t happen with even remotely evenly skilled teams.
Instead of arguing against Onryo you’re argument should be about bad matchmaking.
Also, she should not be cutting off every loop to a tv. Why is every tv on first of all. Second her teleport literally tells you she’s using it, you should absolutely never be getting cut off by an Onryo teleport or you’re making mistakes.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498051#Comment_3498051
According to what statistics may I ask? You are one person out of thousands that play the game. Time zones also exist. Dedicated servers exist. There are many influences upon matchmaking and not being able to see killer mains do what they do best is a result of that. Perhaps you are higher MMR than me and face pubsomper killers that don't resort to cheap tactics? Perhaps you play with a SWF and don't realize the impact Onryo leaves on solo queue? There's too much assuming which means there's too much influence to be able to determine probability.
I would say nearly 10,000 hours in the game and being in the .0001% of play time is a pretty big sample size.
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@BreadSilence said:
Her iri add-ons definitely need to be either removed or reworked entirely.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497793#Comment_3497793
You literally can't if she's running double iri add-ons, like the game I had against her on Red Forest the other night. Pure cancer.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497788#Comment_3497788
Slugging every survivor and refusing to hook anyone until all 4 players are down may not be inherently "toxic" but it is objectively and unnecessarily sweaty and boring. And you are ignoring/denying an entire aspect of the game by doing so and denying not only Altruism points for the survivors but also extra hook points for yourself. So while it's not against the rules or anything, you also have no right to get upset when other players give you the smoke for it afterwards.
No, it is not objectively sweaty or boring. Please tell me how being slugged is more boring than being on a hook? On the hook you can literally do nothing while on the ground you can crawl, recovery, run multiple anti slug perks and have a second chance at life. Being slugged is actually objectively less boring. The literal only reason someone can prefer being hooked is because they want to remove themselves from the game early, that’s it.
Ignoring/denying an entire aspect of the game? By choosing to hook you we are also ignoring an entire aspect of the game, slugging. Also an aspect of the game is pressuring gens, of which you do more efficiently by slugging.
I don’t care about getting smoke from survivors, I wish we didn’t even have a chat filter as far as that’s concerned so they can say anything they want to me. I’m simply arguing that you haven’t given any rational argument as to why slugging is toxic or boring for that matter.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497857#Comment_3497857
Slugging because she can global condemn and just info find the other survivors. Shes not punished or at a disadvantage for slugging. Other killers would lose their target and or not find anyone else.
Its easy to zone out and kill survivors regardless of what killer it is. Wanna say that plague cant do it? Shes worse than Sadako is at this by a metric mile.
Others lose their target but she doesn’t? What? Lol. She doesn’t have a homing beacon on their location, they are able to crawl. You say other killers can’t find new targets but she just can? She has to search for other survivors just like everyone else.
In what way is telling people to just get a tape and that it’s an m1 killer you can loop contradictory? That isn’t what the word contradictory means. Both those statements are simultaneously true.
She doesn’t just zone you and get free kills unless the survivor doesn’t understand how to loop, much less loop a basic m1 killer. If that’s our criteria for crazy strong and uncounterable then all killers with anti loop must be wayyy OP.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497780#Comment_3497780
Yeah that's what Onryos do though. They'll slug you until you bleed or they condemn you for an easy mori. Had one pull it off with ZERO hooks.
The Mori is not easy. It requires you to have ignored her tapes or done them inefficiently as well as failing in chase multiple times. The fact of zero hooks is irrelevant. What is relevant is how long it took her to condemn you, how effective you were in chase and how efficiently you were managing tapes.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497788#Comment_3497788
Just because you don't experience it, it doesn't invalidate it. Matter of fact there's no point bringing that up because it's useless. if it can happen, it will. It certainly happens to me.
I would generally agree with you, but I play way, way more than the average player. Like way more than a full time job worth of time and that amount of time consistently for 6 years. The likelihood of that actually being a common thing and me just happening to never have it happen is extremely unlikely.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497788#Comment_3497788
Oh but it is. The current wave of "Sadako mains" are taking advantage of the non communication/non-coordination of a slug trap. And there's really no counter play.
Its like imagine a killer in the end game with 2 survivors left. Slugs one but is nowhere near or has no idea/no information perks, nothing, to where the last survivor is.
What makes Sadako in particular worse for this is, she never had to interact with a hook mechanic or a generator regress/patrol mechanic the entire match. She just needs info, which she only needs to run as perks now, and then its all downhill for survivors there. And thats why its so toxic. Where other killers actually risk something from leaving a slugged survivor, Sadako just gains.
This is an extremely broad definition of toxic. You’re essentially calling anything toxic that you just don’t like or is strong for the killer. The vast majority of the population do not use things like that to describe toxic.
A killer slugging at end game with 2 survivors left while he looks for the last survivor is not toxic lol, that’s literally just smart. He’s won the match so he wants the 4K. I see no issue with this as survivor. He’s not trying to make anyone mad or ruin someone’s day, he’s literally just doing the smartest play. It’s like being mad at him for not playing bad lol.
To say there’s not counter play to Sadako slugging is just objectively a false statement btw.
You make it sound like slugging as Sadako is just an easy free win. She is literally an m1 killer with no anti loop, a bad stealth and a map traversal survivors can control. Like what more do you want? She’s literally trash in every aspect that makes a good killer good other than her condemn. For you to be getting chain slugged both you and your team would have to be getting outplayed over and over again against basically a trapper with no traps rofl. Essentially if she’s actually pulling that off y’all are either having a very, very bad game or the killer is just way more skilled than your team and probably deserves the win.
Slugging is not risky because they’re playing Sadako? What? She literally risked all that time chasing to potentially gain nothing if she fails at it, ie gens popping. She risks just like other killers when going for slugs.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497780#Comment_3497780
You have Sadako's that hook?
Gimme your matches please.
Hooking once you have all 4 survivors downed is different than hooking at every down. The former happens every single match, if they’re slugging at all that is.
Bleeding the whole team out I will agree is toxic. However that is almost never happening, like ever. Waiting to hook till they’re on the ground is not toxic as he isn’t dragging the game out to be mean, he’s only doing it for strategy and to slow the gens down while building pressure.
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@EmmaFrostyEyes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497700#Comment_3497700
Your wasting your time with that person
I’m providing rational arguments, if you have a point to defend your stance then present it.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497748#Comment_3497748
Ah yes four person slugging isn't toxic all of a sudden. Describe what a toxic punstomper killer does then please, if you may?
Toxic would be leaving you all there to bleed out and waste your time. 4 person slugging at base and then hooking once he’s got y’all is not toxic whatsoever.
There is no all of the sudden, slugging 4 people never has been toxic. What people are referencing is leaving them all to bleed out while he stands there. That is two VERY different things.
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It also seems like they have wall hacks when playing loops tbh
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497694#Comment_3497694
Taking advantage of solo queue having no communication...? Since survivors can't say where they got knocked, they are left to bleed out because of Knock Out. The more time survivors spend looking for the slugged person, the less time they have on generators. It's especially annoying on larger maps. It also lets Onryo focus on less targets to condemn so they can spam their teleports.
That isn’t “taking advantage of”. That’s literally just normal game play. The game is balanced around solo queue, aka not having that info. You act like it’s something nefarious. The entire point of knock out IS to deny info. The fact that it takes extra time away from generators to find the survivor is entirely the point of the perk and slugging, that’s it’s intended job. You make it sound like slugging is toxic or something.
It’s extra annoying on larger maps yes but those larger maps are also the worst maps for killer in general, so an even trade at least.
I don’t see the issue.
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She’s fine, people are already starting to adapt better in games. The condemn is strong but it’s literally all she has. She’s trash in every other aspect that makes a good killer good so she would need massive buffs in other areas to compensate if we were to touch her condemn.
The only time I see her condemn be an issue in my games are when my teammates refuse to touch tapes and don’t respect her condemn until it’s too late.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497683#Comment_3497683
None of these are enough
People are also playing scummy with her, using Sloppy and Knock out, and slugging
its literally impossible to play
What’s scummy about slugging?
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This seems like unnecessary changes for a few things.
Her traps are overall fine. I do think survivors shouldn’t see boxes though while traps are unarmed, that’s silly. If they’re unarmed then this extra search time isn’t making them any deadlier. Would be nice if Pig could see the timers as well.
Pigs main issue is how complete garbage her crouch and ambush are. Especially the ambush is on the edge of useless.
Addons could also use some improvements. Amanda’s Letter needs the negative removed entirely, it’s not impressive enough to deserve it.
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@Sadako_Best_Girl said:
This may be my personal opinion from my own playstyle but I really think Iri tape is not good, like at all. Ideally you want to have an idea of were survivors will put their tapes in, usually they will stick to grabbing the tapes closest to gens and then moving on to the closest TV, so you usually just teleport to the TV closest to the one that was turned off to hit them and get those sweet condemnation stacks. This add-on basically just tells survivors where they are supposed to go and makes them more unpredictable, which was one of the bigger issues the old condemnation playstyle had. It may waste some of the survivor's time, but it really isn't worth it.
This sounds like a fair argument if you’re trying to focus and tunnel 1 person out, however trying to micromanage that with 4 people simultaneously without Iri Tape is impractical in most cases.
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I’ll never understand the issue people have with slugging. You can literally do more things than when you’re on a hook and it gives you a second chance at life. There’s also multiple slug counters.
Hating slugging to me just sounds like the person is angry they weren’t able to rage quit like they can on a hook. I would always rather be slugged.
The hate for slugging is totally irrational.