Blueberry
Blueberry
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3494278#Comment_3494278
You can in fact go hit the people with the Tapes.
In fact, it's even easier with this addon considering they usually have to run across the map to get rid of them. God forbid you throw in Mother's Comb as well, which lets you know exactly where and when people grab a Tape.
The rate at which you give each person condemn by hitting them with a tape is overall a much slower gain than her previous version unless as I mentioned before they are playing very badly.
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No, if anything it should’ve been built into her base kit.
The only way it’s easier to apply condemn now is if the survivors are playing against her incorrectly. If you all take a tape and hold it she is overall applying much less condemn to people than before.
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Yeah allowing survivors to wipe away her traps was a massive nerf. The flashlight removal was only minor imo.
I'd increase her post teleport lunge a bit or increase the camera swing duration but in exchange weaken her camping. So like substantially increase the distance she is blocked from placing a trap near a hooked survivor.
Weakening her ability to hook camp and survivors currently being able to wipe away her traps is way more than enough of a hit to her to completely warrant the increase to her post teleport lunge and removing the "trigger outside her range" thing.
Shackles is totally fine imo even though people do complain about it a lot.
Hags current issues are just that she's too good at camping but also gives the survivors way too much counter play overall. That's why I'd weaken her camping and lower her other counter play areas.
Honestly the trap wipe away was a bad change in general and should be reverted though. Total overkill.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3494066#Comment_3494066
It’s like saying she’s better against solos and worse against swf, when what we want is the complete opposite of that.
That would be the ideal, yes. But that will never be true. It's just not possible to have a killer that is better against SWF than solo queue. Balacing killers with this in mind is tricky:
- Make them strong and you can compete with SWF no problem but solo queue never stands a change.
- Make them weak and solo queue can compete fairly but the killer now stands no chance against SWF.
In an ideal world, solo survivors and SWF are on equal footing. But in reality, they aren't and never will be.
“well they’re really good if the survivors play stupid” isn’t a design we want.
Once again -- in theory -- I agree with you. But this just isn't how DbD actually plays out. Most of the killer roster rely on survivors messing up or being uncoordinated:
- If one member of a solo queue team cleanses their sickness against a Plague, they're putting the rest of their sick teammates in immense danger from Corrupt Purge.
- If solo queue teams all waste time running to solve the Lament Configuration, or none of them opt to solve it, then the game is thrown.
- If your solo queue teammates fail to split up against Legion and keep letting them chain Feral Slashes, then The Legion is able to apply incredible amounts of pressure.
- If a solo queue teammate lets Oni get an early hit, then the rest of the team gets screwed over.
- If a solo queue teammate lets Myers stalk, then the next person found is going to get instantly downed.
- etc.
If survivors always played with perfect coordination, then killers could be rebalanced to be much stronger and not reliant on survivor mistakes. But most survivors don't play perfectly and never will, so they have to be slighltly weaker against those actual coordinated teams to give the rest of the playerbase a fighting chance.
I guess it’s just a core design problem in dbd with the swf issue that we don’t have a solution for yet. I thought all the HUD information was supposed to bring them closer to make balancing around swf more ideal but I guess not.
The HUD didn’t bring them as close as they wanted because at the end of the day the main advantage in swf isn’t even the info, it’s the guarantee of 4 good teammates. It removes the weak link.
However if the core issue isn’t even the info but the skill of the players then that’s impossible to fix.
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You said it was overall good that she’s now better against bad players and worse against experienced players essentially. This seems like bad design. It’s like saying she’s better against solos and worse against swf, when what we want is the complete opposite of that. We want her worse against bad solos and better against good swf.
Hypothetically here: I feel like if a killers design is “well they’re really good if the survivors play stupid” isn’t a design we want. I feel like this applies to a majority of the killer roster already though unfortunately.
I don’t think we want killers that rely on survivors playing bad to win. We want their wins to come from having a higher skill ceiling which gives them potential to outplay good players.
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It should’ve been base kit honestly.
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Franklins is completely fine. No changes needed.
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@averagemikaelamain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3492482#Comment_3492482
BNP nerf isnt even a nerf,according to Otz it's a 4s diff.
Yeah I unfortunately saw that as well.
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Deerstalker has been pretty outdated for a while. Wish they’d buff it’s range to map wide and build on a 20% reduced recovery speed to keep it up with modern perks.
Plot Twist having aura reading immunity as well doesn’t sound unreasonable.
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Add Borgo to the list as well.
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@Chadku said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3493175#Comment_3493175
They often don't come to that conclusion, or never.
Just remember old Object of Obsession and the spreadsheets defense for not nerfing it.
Yup that's the problem.
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@Chadku said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3493112#Comment_3493112
Excel Spreadsheets showed a high usage rate on Reiko's Watch.
Nerfing it from 50% to 33% should also reduce the usage rate by 27% right?
"Wdym people still use the only addon that is helping her abysmal m1 killer chase?"
Reiko joined the ranks of Marvin, Mikhail, Toy Sword & Stale Biscuit. (Nerfs due to spreadsheets)
Which I would say was their wrong way of interpreting the spreadsheets.
Instead of nerfing them because of their usage they should have asked themselves why is it used so much?
It would have been better if they realized it was because of flaws in their base design that the addons were being used to correct. IE they should have baked them base kit instead of nerfing the addons from use.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3493067#Comment_3493067
That's discouraging. I played her abit BEFORE the change and was kinda hoping the changes would change her in a positive way instead of just neutering her and calling it a day. I was hoping her tapes would be treated similarly to Plague's pools where you have to really think if you want to use them. Sounds like it's basically a pure net positive though. Getting caught with a tape in your hand, which is the worst outcome of taking it, is pretty tame.
Yeah I basically don't really see a negative to just everyone taking tapes. Then the only stacks you're getting is IF you get hit and it's only 2. It also negates all the passive condemn by holding them. If for some weird reason you happen to get higher on stacks it's an easy instant insert to remove most the condemn. For safe it is to hold a tape and negate all passive condemn I don't see the reason for the teleport cooldown at all, much less allowing them to put the tape in any tv now. A bunch of negatives added to her that feel overall worse than what she even gained.
Essentially it feels like it averages out to be less condemn on everyone. If anyone actually gets mori'd they just played very badly and got greedy.
Only real positive here is the faster tv respawns, it feels quite nice. That said she also got her old ultra rare neutered for it. Which if the intent was to make her less reliant on that addon, then why now make her new ultra rare required? Seems confusing.
I would still give her a multitude of other buffs as most all of her core issues were not addressed at all and she still feels very unthreatening to me.
I think we're all confused on the watch nerf though, like what?
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After playing against her quite a bit she feels significantly weaker.
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@Dogma_loki said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3492784#Comment_3492784
You would make a great politician.
What exactly are you trying to imply here? That you're 60-90% escape rate is a sign that DBD is in a great state?
I didn't imply anything. OP simply asked our survival rate.
I actually don't think DBD is in a great state at all if you're asking though.
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Wow you're right, these look so bad. The killer ones are the worst.
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I just hate that in order to have the cool body I have to use the head. The rest of it looks great but the head part with the helmet is so bad.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3492638#Comment_3492638
I don't think most people talking about their escape rate are particularly concerned with skill.
I most often see escape rate being talked about as a measurement of game health and player satisfaction.
That's a fair point. However I'd argue they must use it to measure skill because if you aren't, then that is not objectively a measure of the games health, if you aren't taking into account your skill.
So if you're hypothetically playing like garbage then that wouldn't be a true measure of the games health, because your experience is being skewed by playing bad.
Then you'd end up pushing for changes to make your experience better instead of simply getting better at the game, which would have solved those issues.
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@Uxoxe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3492609#Comment_3492609
The reason to include them is because most forum users are expecting them to be included in your stats since that's also how BHVR also shows the stats.
If you are communicating with someone, but are using a different definition of a word than what everyone else uses, then you are failing to communicate.
I think including dc's and suicides in your stats is failing to communicate on their part.
The whole point of listing win rates is to measure skill, including those things is not measuring skill accurately.
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@Uxoxe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3492592#Comment_3492592
Hook suicides are considered valid games by BHVR for matchmaking purposes. Disconnects are not.
I understand not counting hook-suicides, but if you are posting on the forums, you probably would want to include those in your stats, since everyone on the forums uses BHVR matchmaking rules.
"I understand not counting hook-suicides, but if you are posting on the forums, you probably would want to include those in your stats, since everyone on the forums uses BHVR matchmaking rules."
That would be silly to include those in your stats. Would be illogical.
Just because that's in their matchmaking bares no reason why you should be including it. Irrelevant.
Also if we're gonna get that picky, there were only a couple dc/suicide games out of that set of matches. Not much relevance overall.
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@Uxoxe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3492555#Comment_3492555
You escape 15 times, out of 16 games? Are you including hook suicides in your stats? Are you playing solo-queue?
I think everyone would love to see you play 20 solo-queue survivor games in a row, put it on youtube and link it here.
"You escape 15 times, out of 16 games?"
That wasn't an average I gave, that was me just mentioning how yesterdays games went.
"Are you including hook suicides in your stats? Are you playing solo-queue?"
No, matches with suicides on first hook or dc not counted. I do a mix, but yesterdays 16 games were a duo.
"I think everyone would love to see you play 20 solo-queue survivor games in a row, put it on youtube and link it here."
I don't have a youtube but I do on my stream.
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I stream if you'd like to watch. Literally just lost 1 match yesterday out of 16 games.
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Looks really lacking to me as well.
Bad Sadako changes and a bunch of perk buffs that realistically still don’t make them good at all.
Only positives I see from this patch are some new survivor perks from Cage, BNP nerf and PT nerf.
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Why not just run a healing speed perk with it to speed it up?
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When people complain about "gen rushing" it generally is not saying that the survivors shouldn't be focusing their objective as fast as they can, they should.
What they are saying is that the speed at which they are able to complete them is too fast.
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@nars said:
3 genning isnt an issue, SM is an issue.
This.
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Yup
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Yeah really makes no since that they released it like this right after they realized it was a bad thing on Hope. Really needs to just be permanent at end game as OP mentioned just like Hope currently is.
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Extremely disappointed. I think everyone on both sides are really upset about these changes. Wrong direction to go.
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While better than the PTB version she’s still completely terrible. The main concerns and issues with her that everyone voiced pretty unanimously from both sides at that, have not been addressed.
Why does she STILL have a lullaby?
She has no real anti loop as her flickering is on the border of irrelevant and no stun while demanifested in practicality is going to do near nothing.
Condemned still isn’t a threat either.
So all she really has is mobility, which got better from the PTB, but still is worse than multiple other killers.
-Massively increasing the flickering on her demanifested and it’s linger to give some anti loop to it
-Remove the lullaby. How this is still present baffles everyone.
-Return the passive condemn while holding tapes
-Return making them go to the farther tv to drop off a tape. This change to any was bad.
This is all even just a start, she could probably use more.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490853#Comment_3490853
that is exactly what they did, right? they invent potencial energy. Vittorio potencial energy helped team eternal break 3 gen skull merchant game. I imagine they charged the potencial energy perk and then used it to break 3 gen. I know saw someone in end screen with that perk.
Actually no, on top of adding anti 3 gen perks they also moved gens on some maps and they nerfed severely (perks are dead now)the best 3 gen perks that for the most part allowed it to even be a thing.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490827#Comment_3490827
by the time you bless a boon, the game will be over so there no point in equipping the boon perk. you should selected a different perk. strong swf/strong efficient solos can finish gens in like 6 minutes if everyone plays well. perks with no value are empty perk slots. they're not worth equipping. its same reason why killer do not equip shattered hope. the fear of an empty perk slot.
No, the game is not over by the time you boon rofl. Boons as a concept are not remotely similar to shattered hope whatsoever. The fact that most swf bring a CoH contradicts saying that groups don’t bring boons as we literally have the evidence. If it was not worth equipping we wouldn’t see them running it.
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There’s a lot of killers you don’t see much because most of them are way too weak. Very few killers are actually well balanced.
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Adrenaline is fine. It’s a well balanced perk, no changes needed.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490810#Comment_3490810
blessing boons is secondary objective for survivor. you spend time away from generator to activate the survivor perk. if you spend 30 second to find boon and 14 second to bless it, you lose 44 second of generator time. in other words, you self-incapacitated yourself to activate the perk. for boon to be worth it, you save more time then 44 second spend blessing the totem. that is why COH was so good because your teammate/you would save time on healing and healing can increase killer overall chase-time. your were almost always positive in time. The other boon do that as well. DT grants haste effect which allow survivors to chain-pallet loops, so it prevents a survivor from going down and allows them to chain a pallet loop they could not chain, then chase get extended and you get massive gen-time as survivor. This is also why MFT is strong. Boon:exponential saves you time by the fact that you do not need to walk to another survivor to pick them up. Shadowstep grants you extra time by using it to stealth around killer making killer waste time and indirectly allows you to work on generators. the boon perks are like gamble. you invest early time to get more time later.
shattered hope denies value the time value of using boon perks. it becomes detriment to the survivor. your encouraged to rush gens and ignore blessing totems that will get destroyed and provide no value to the team.
That is a very, very extreme exaggeration of the time spent setting up the boon. You are absolutely not spending 30 seconds looking for a totem rofl. The vast majority of the time I would make that zero time looking. You usually run into them passively in your time going to gens. You’re essentially only losing the time through setup of the boon, of which when you multiply the time given to the other 3 survivors when you spend time as killer to snuff it, is wayyy more time lost on gens as killer than what that one survivor spent setting it up. You “want” the killer to waste time snuffing all your boons as it’s a net positive for your team in “most” cases. This is proven by the fact that most of the time killers will not ever waste time snuffing a boon, even when the old OP CoH existed, they would just eat it.
This is a case of treating the game as a 1v1 rather than a 4v1.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490799#Comment_3490799
it doesn't matter what buffs you suggest because it is free gen defence eruption incapacitates for killer for survivor equipping perks.
Could you rephrase, not sure what you’re saying.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490777#Comment_3490777
that would make boons useless. you would never get that base-kit. it is like asking survivor to see all hex auras for the entire trial.
That's why it was only suggested based on the old OP COH, not the current one.
Anytime it's suggested now it would be in tandem with boon buffs.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490745#Comment_3490745
didn't killer suggest this solution to boon design problem and they implement it as a perk? I used during COH era and looked pretty good for countering boons with wraith but issue was that people also ran these hyper-fast healing med-kits. there was nothing to counter those med-kits so it still wasn't rewarding to hit & run.
They suggested it as base kit, not as a perk, which is a huge difference.
With a CoH in play you can remove it from the game, but now you've wasted a ton of time and pressure snuffing all the totems around the map to make them lose 1/16 of their perks in exchange for losing 1/4 of yours. Just terrible. A perk slot cost is massive.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490721#Comment_3490721
the counter to infinity placing is shattered hope. although, why would anyone shattered hope when nobody uses boon anyway.
Even if, and as we said that's a big if, people are running boons almost guarenteed, Shattered Hope is still complete and utter trash. It is not a solution to the boon design problem.
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Boons are failed in concept. If they’re actually good enough to run they’re too good because of how they’re simply designed. So in order for us to actually make boons in general good they would need changes to their fundamental design and how they work. Infinite placing and costing the killer more time to snuff than it takes the survivor is just flawed design as it negates the entire point that is “suppose” to be the negative attached to them.
That all said, for how much people complain about CoH supposedly being bad now it’s just frankly not. It’s extremely good. Not as much in solo queue but it’s still present in every single swf you run into at higher mmr for good reason.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490192#Comment_3490192
This is true. SWF are cherry-picking their team mates as much as Killers can cherry-pick their survivors.
Exactly. If hypothetically SWF didn't exist then maybe I could see an argument but that's never going to happening.
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Zero good reasons to remove DC penalties. Every Blight/Nurse/Spirit would face bots only. Killer would ditch every single game they didn't get a good start in.
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That would be a complete nightmare
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Naming and shaming is against TOS. I wouldn’t link their page or name them directly.
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Until the game is actually decently balanced dodging seems like a necessary feature.
We can say killers use it to cherry pick easy matches but that’s literally also swf as doing swf is cherry picking they will get a significantly easier match and that’s way more reliable than a killer guessing by the look of the lobby.
I have no qualms about a killer dodging my lobby on survivor so I don’t see the issue.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489258#Comment_3489258
the micro in simply understanding how to play a loop.
to be fair, the vast majority of loops on survivor side run themselves and you have no control over them as killer other than survivor messing up as an m1 killer.
Very true. Which is another reason why I put skilled macro play as way, way more skillful than micro play.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489258#Comment_3489258
Eruption was problematicf for solos for more of a reason than just people "finnangling wording" also no, that may be skill, but hit and run doesn't involve all that understanding. Literally just dropping chase when it becomes the slightest bit too hard for you, that's not thinking about macro, that's lazy.
Cherry picking one of the few examples that work is literally the "finnangling" I was talking about. My statement is generally a true one in the vast majority of cases, even if you are able to find a couple small exceptions it doesn't disprove the overall point.
"Literally just dropping chase when it becomes the slightest bit too hard for you, that's not thinking about macro, that's lazy."
I don't think you understand high level DBD macro gameplay if this is what you think it is. This is not what it is whatsoever.
Macro gameplay of hit and run is understanding how long you can commit to chases, understanding the time you can commit based on the survivors location and its overall level of safety, understanding through game experience where each other survivor is and what they're doing, and utilizing this further to be able to multi pressure more than one survivor simultaneously or close out in a slug opportunity if they misplay. Understanding this well lets you prioritize your time efficiently in a game that is all about time management.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489142#Comment_3489142
absolutely not XD no universe where thats true. even if it wasnt awful for solos, its boring and takes no skill
You could finnagle the wording to make nearly anything bad for solos. Being in a swf and on coms is going to make nearly everything better for them. This really isn't a point.
I also don't think it's that bad at all for solos.
Sneaking up, outplaying to get the hit if they see you coming and especially being able to multitask and juggle different survivors across the map is the epitome of skill. Understanding the macro gameplay of DBD as killer is way more skillful than the micro in simply understanding how to play a loop.
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Hit and run is healthy for the game. If anything I’d encourage it further.
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Outdated feature that only causes problems. Should be removed.