Blueberry
Blueberry
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- Blueberry
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Imo:
Overrated: Hag
Underrated: Clown
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An interesting question. DC's have been plaguing the game for a very long time. However, this most recent extreme DC epidemic I feel started around the time DS got its rework released I believe. Whichever patch number that was.
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An interesting question I'd like to hear as well out of curiosity.
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@Justicar said:
Sure, the Plague could use some work, but there are killers who need it far more and have been waiting for it for longer (IE Nightmare and Cannibal).
That is a fair point. I'd say it's people being more upset that they keep releasing killers in a gimped state to where they'll be needing reworks down the road. We'd like them to start releasing killers in a stronger state to begin with so we can be done having to continuously go back and fix them later.
I know having to keep going back with reworks is taxing on their available resources, but if they released killers in better states they wouldn't have to. They are so terrified of making another nurse that they swing really low just to be safe.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/487054#Comment_487054
I mean yeah sure, but if the Obsession is experienced, they could use the perk against the killer. For example, if the Obsession gets hit and the killer leaves, the Obsession can repair a generator without interference. If the killer chases the Obsession, then the other survivors aren't being threatened by the increased movement as well.
Maybe add a little caveat as well then that if the obsession is hooked all haste is lost for both of them?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/487046#Comment_487046
This. Broken state is actually less valuable to the Plague due to her extreme height and 32m terror radius. It's easier loop a giant traffic cone vs a killer at Freddy's height with a 24m radius.
Exactly. Her height and TR are what make it way less powerful than say on Myers and even Myers is not rank 1 viable, so a weaker Myers isn't going to be great.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
Funnily enough in regards to another’s post, Amanda’s low POV Andy the roar being too early came up on a q&a back shortly after her release and I think Matthieu said they would consider it. It’s a shame they deemed it unnecessary. I love the idea of the ambush attack but uncrouching is so much more viable
Exactly. The fact that in 90% of the cases you are better off just uncrouching instead of Ambushing should tell the devs that there's an issue.
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I believe they do look for translators for each language. However I think it's a volunteer position not like a paid position. That was my impression anyway, hopefully the devs will post here and clarify.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/487013#Comment_487013
I honestly think this is fine where it's at because there is already counter play. The Obsession just needs to keep themselves hidden and if not, just don't get hit so the killer doesn't get their PWYF. Furthermore, the speed difference on the Obsession remains the same, while other survivors have a larger speed difference. So after you attack the Obsession, it's a good idea to just ignore them since you will get more value from chasing non Obsessions.
Well that's counter play from the obsession but nothing in the control of the other survivors. They are left helpless to hope their obsession teammate isn't stupid. We'd have to see though in the PTB, the numbers might be just fine. This is one of the few perks I just wasn't sure what to do with.
I'd like to post my one for survivors but I don't feel this one reached the devs so it feels like it might just be a waste of time.
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@Mochan said:
Plague is fine.
Her power basically reads "All Survivors play the game Broken."
I mean lol, NOED is a meta perk because it makes all Survivors broken during the endgame.
Her power actually reads, "All Survivors Suffer the Effects of NoEd throughout the entire game."
Everyone says No Mither is a trash perk because you are always Broken.
Yet somehow Plague forcing everyone to be Broken is the worst Killer ever?
And all the dumb survivors falling for the killer propaganda and not Cleansing.... you're all playing right into her hands and letting her one shot you throughout the game.
The problem you and the devs are making here is that you are vastly overvaluing that broken state.
There are more than enough pallets and windows to get all 5 gens done before they run out.
This is the key point. At high ranks the survivors know how to loop efficiently to where that broken doesn't matter as much as you think it does. She is also way taller than most killers making looping way easier against her as well as having no real secondary power to assist her in those loops like most other killers.
"And all the dumb survivors falling for the killer propaganda and not Cleansing.... you're all playing right into her hands and letting her one shot you throughout the game."
You are literally that one teammate that incorrectly thinks this and screws everyone else on the team over by cleansing. I think you are playing at low ranks because what you are saying isn't true at high ranks.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I think the Plague's problems are a microcosm of the balance process. It seems like the devs really rely too much on low and mid level play regarding balance. Rank 12-15 survivors cleanse right away, full stop. Rank 8-10...maybe one or two might. Beyond that, forget about it. I'm not saying I'm an amazing player, but those of us at purple and red ranks every reset would really like more killer viability and variety.
Yeah this basically.
The issue is them balancing around low ranks and expecting the survivors to play stupid which just doesn't happen at high ranks.
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@NMCKE said:
Here's my PWYF suggestion: Thoughts?
So in a roundabout way similar to what I was mentioning? Except the obsession is also sharing in this haste affect and your percentage is much higher. Only thing that worries me here though is that the haste % might be a tad high and lasting too long. I only say that because it doesn't have much counter play for the survivors. At the 12% and even 8% you would be zooming lol. I usually think it's healthier when the counter play is changing your playstyle or using different perks from the survivor. This doesn't really have any of those. Any ideas for some small counter play you could add to it? Nothing big. Or maybe even just lower the %.
That said, I wouldn't completely count it out yet. It would be worthy of a PTB test. The average killer perk power level across the board is below par so even though this seems higher the average bar does need to be higher so it's worth a check out.
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@legion_main said:
yes it would be bad because what if the three random gens that activate is a three gen the killer can guard? then the survivors would almost certainly be screwed
you can force people to activate the hex by running ruin or devour hope with it still making it really strong
they would only need to guard the totem anyways if that totem is ruin so it would basically just buff already strong killers
the problem is no one knows what perks the killer has so even if survivors became cautious around this perk it would just promote boring immersive gameplay
A lot of these perks can be left alone because they can hold their own as is (not necessarily the ones I mentioned) but if anything try to focus on perks that actually need buffs
"yes it would be bad because what if the three random gens that activate is a three gen the killer can guard? then the survivors would almost certainly be screwed"
I disagree, 3 gen strats can be handled and keep in mind this is also because the survivors CHOSE not to do totems. It's entirely up to them.
"you can force people to activate the hex by running ruin or devour hope with it still making it really strong"
And so what if they do? Even at max stacks it is easily manageable. I can work through a 5 token Lullaby way easier than a Ruin and people work through Ruin on a regularly basis including myself. Those skill checks are not hard to hit.
"they would only need to guard the totem anyways if that totem is ruin so it would basically just buff already strong killers"
What are you talking about? Only low ranks are running around trying to cleanse Ruin anyway. Smart survivors don't even try to cleanse it, they just work through it quite easily.
"the problem is no one knows what perks the killer has so even if survivors became cautious around this perk it would just promote boring immersive gameplay"
I think you're vastly overestimating how powerful a location ping is. It's not worth much. I also don't think immersive game play is boring. I would say circling pallets for 5 gens is boring. Like I already said as well, just run Calm Spirit and his perk is worthless now as well.
"A lot of these perks can be left alone because they can hold their own as is (not necessarily the ones I mentioned) but if anything try to focus on perks that actually need buffs"
Most of these perks need buffs. Hardly any of these can stand on their own, they are quite weak. If they were strong people would be using them, they aren't.
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I would love extra skins like that and I would spend a lot of money on them.
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@Tru3Lemon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/486878#Comment_486878
cuz you spam bump alot so that youre post can be in the first place so ppl look at it spamming youreself on youre own post its just bad
Please link where I have a "bump" on my page.
There are zero bumps left on my page and my discussion is completely following the Community Guidelines.
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@legion_main said:
@Blueberry instead of map wide I would make it terror radius wide for spies from the shadows
Have you read the perks current description? It's ALREADY larger than the killers TR and is complete garbage, ran by no one.
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@legion_main said:
Im not gonna list all of them but like
NOED: is way to strong as survivors basically have to get 6 generators done instead of 5
Huntress Lullaby: having it activate as a perk that NEVER goes away is super strong especially against someone like 3 gen doc
Thrill of the hunt: Too strong for high mobility killers such as spirit,nurse, or hillbilly
Spies from the shadow: you would just be able to see pretty much everyone at all times probably making it a meta perk
Like i said im not gonna list all of them but you should think about how each perk would effect each killer not just one or two of them
"NOED: is way to strong as survivors basically have to get 6 generators done instead of 5"
Well currently with 5 gens the killers don't have nearly enough time for their objective so is 6 IF they choose not to cleanse totems really that bad?
"Huntress Lullaby: having it activate as a perk that NEVER goes away is super strong especially against someone like 3 gen doc"
It ONLY activates if the survivors choose to destroy the totem. It may activate very late in the game or not even at all. Even if it does activate AND happens to get to max tokens, are those skillchecks really that hard to hit? Most people wouldn't say so, even on Doctor. Also, Doctor is quite low tier anyway, he could probably use a buff.
"Thrill of the hunt: Too strong for high mobility killers such as spirit,nurse, or hillbilly"
If they are guarding their totem they aren't watching the gens, even on a high mobility killer.
"Spies from the shadow: you would just be able to see pretty much everyone at all times probably making it a meta perk"
Choosing not to run through crows is quite easy. Not to mention the person could even run Calm Spirit to counter this entirely.
"Like i said im not gonna list all of them but you should think about how each perk would effect each killer not just one or two of them"
I feel like I have. Most the exception killers you listed wouldn't be too abusive with these changes to be an issue.
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@Tru3Lemon said:
@MandyTalk can you close this plz?
And why would it need to be closed? Someone new posted and I responded to them.
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@legion_main said:
Because a lot of these are already fine as is sure I saw a couple I thought were fine but you kinda overdid it with some of these perks
Most of those perks see little to no play at high ranks because they are not viable.
Which perks do you think I overdid? I could see still tweaking some.
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@ShyN3ko said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/486749#Comment_486749
Spirit: 3*7,04 = 22,2
Pig: 2,5*6,4=16
Sprintboost 3* 6 = 18
Yes, I use the ambush only on short loops.
As Spirit, I use it on every loop.
They cant see me and I cant see them.
There is rly no point for playing Pig, if you have Spirit.
My opinion is still:"Pig should win a 2,5 second race vs the Spirit".
Its not your opinion and thats totally fine.
But maybe we should test new movement speed numbers for this 3 killers.
Example:
Legion: 6 m/s
Spirit: 7 m/s
Pig: 8 m/s
As programmer, I need 1-10 min for change this variables.
You guys have a PTB, you should test more crazy stuff.
I too would like it if they'd get a little more experimental in their PTB's just to see how well some new ideas work. Especially when they're such fast and easy number tweaks as you mentioned.
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@legion_main said:
no thanks
Would you mind specifying why?
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Hopefully the massive amount of upvotes on this topic gets their attention. Plague needs improvements.
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@ShyN3ko said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/486732#Comment_486732
Yeah sry for my bad english.
I cant explain well.
Im coming from germany.
Pig and Legion :"Every killer should have his own strength."
Spirit:"Hold my sword".
It's fine I figured it wasn't your first language.
As you were saying, Spirit just fulfills all those roles better, rather than each killer being better in a certain scenario which is what it should be and what your post was illustrating.
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@Peanits said:
I'm not sure if I could agree with that. To use the pig, as an example, if you decided to ambush someone as they sprint burst away, you shouldn't catch up. You used your power at the wrong time and so you missed. Even though you may not have landed a hit, you will close a decent amount of the gap.
If you increase that to 8m/s, though, that's an insane amount of speed. That's enough to make just about any pallet an unsafe pallet. I could crouch at every loop and get a hit nearly every time.
Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't want to see people be rewarded for using their power poorly. If they timed it wrong and didn't plan for the sprint burst, that's on them.
This is why instead of giving it speed you should add more skill potential to it. The roar needs to be at the end of the charge. It gives way too much of a heads up that you are using it to be viable. The counter play is them actually being observant of their surroundings or if they're at a pallet watching you crouch. This isn't even going into the perks that counter it even with this buff. It needs to be more viable. Her crouch viewpoint is also too low.
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@ShyN3ko said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/486505#Comment_486505
Legion 10 seconds = map pressure
Spirit 5 seconds = chases
Pig 2,5 seconds = stealth attack
Every killer has his own strengths.
Pig would win the short race and Legion would win the long chases.
So but why should I play Pig or Legion?
I could just use Spirit and then I win all chases.
I would have fast attacks and a big map pressure.
Agreed.
This is what OP is trying to say. Pig should be winning the short chase but currently is not. The ambush is too predictable and unreliable. Her crouch viewpoint also needs to be raised.
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@Orti said:
Ahh I see. I don't think so Pig and Legion aren't intended to beat the Spirit in that sort of play style. Pig is about sneaking up and forcing survivors to abandon a loop or get a hit on it. Legion is about putting damage on as many targets as possible his don+'t mean his ability is meant to give you all these hits sometimes you'rte just supposed to traverse the distance,
Spirit is supposed to be superior in catching up and downing survivors.
Of course they need to rework most killers if they ever want make this game balanced, but increasing numbers wouldn't help with that or would make killers to identical to each other
"forcing survivors to abandon a loop or get a hit on it"
Which does not currently happen against any actually competent high rank survivors. By those standards it is currently failing its intended purpose. Anyone getting hit by Pigs ambush at a loop currently is a low rank or potato. Her ambush isn't good enough, or her crouch for that matter.
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@NMCKE said:
Do you have any suggestions for PWYF? I have an idea but I wanna hear your suggestion first! :)
Tbh that's one of the few I'm not too sure on. I thought about keeping it very similar to how it is now except awarding 2 tokens every time you let your obsession go. Each hit against one of the other 3 survivors costs 1 token and as long as you have at least 1 token you will have the 5% increased speed. Currently the cost of needing to find your obsession and choose to let him go is highly situational and costs more than the value you're gaining even when it does happen. We either need it less situational or stronger when that situation does arise.
What's your idea?
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Here's the deal, I'll trade you less hooks for less pallets and windows. Deal?
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@OMagic_ManO said:
"He isn't strong enough of a killer."
I'm not trying to tell you you're wrong or nothing, but try playing him with Monitor and Abuse or EW3'ing behind someone's back.
I've been playing him at rank 1 since the game came out with well over 3k+ hours, I know quite well how scary he can and can't be. I always run MnA and EW3'ing behind someones back is just how you play him.
This is scary at low ranks but at high ranks none of it matters.
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Against high ranks that's just never happening. He isn't strong enough of a killer.
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We don't need bloodlust buffed or tweaked as it shouldn't even exist in the first place. Bloodlust was added as a bandaid fix for poor map design. We don't need the bandaid fix improved, we need the core problem itself addressed. Fix the map design.
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Insta heals are a little busted as they have no counter and there can be multiple of them.
However that said, the biggest OP thing about survivors isn't perks/addons/offerings or any of that, it's the games map design. Pallets/windows/loops are way too prevalent and way too strong. That is what the real issue is.
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@ApeOfMazor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/484804#Comment_484804
Addons should all just be reworked to be positives and no negatives.
Generally I agree.
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I agree. There are quite a few Fog Whisperers that shouldn't be. They spread misinformation because of their bias and encourage toxic behavior as well as breaking the games Terms of Service.
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I think that if you are infected and broken that the periodic vomits should give the survivor a momentary pause for the animation. This makes it much more dangerous to not use fountains and makes looping much less viable in that state.
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I have to stop you at number 2. The devs are absolutely not going to fundamentally rework him and remove Deep Wounds even if it is pretty worthless at this point. I think we should focus on things the devs would reasonably consider and be willing to undertake. IE it needs to be quick and easy changes like your number 1 and 3.
"Pins should apply effects on first frenzy attack, not second."
Thankfully they already acknowledged this on the last stream and are looking into this exact change.
The issue with Legion in his current iteration is almost the exact same issue that Plague has. The problem for both of them is that survivors still don't heal. The devs see this as fine because they think it's a fair tradeoff for them being 1 shottable the rest of the game as that sounds very strong. The problem in this lies with how many pallets and windows there still are and how much time they can waste at each pallet or window.
There are so many pallets that they are almost always within a safe distance of one if not at least a window. This makes it so being 1 hit from going down in exchange for just pounding the gens down without wasting time on healing is always worth it for them. They can finish 5 gens long before you have finished eating through all the pallets.
This is where both of them fall apart. Pallets and windows being too numerous and strong makes both of their powers worthless. There isn't enough danger to make them waste time healing. The biggest and easiest thing I think they should do for Legion in this situation is to give him an extremely small terror radius, like at least 28 if not less. This would make staying injured a little more scary as you have a better chance of getting closer before they can reach the pallets or windows. Obviously map reworks are what we need the most but this is much easier and for Legion specifically.
I know your topic is mainly Legion and not Plague, but the reason they are both weak currently is the same reason. I recommended that Plague needs extra negatives attached to being infected and broken to more incentivize them to use the fountains.
The devs think staying injured all game is much more dangerous than it actually is and they don't realize how overly safe pallets and windows are.
This is obviously based on playing at rank 1 against actually competent survivors that know what they're doing. At low ranks they will heal and then these killers are totally viable. However being viable only against stupid survivors isn't where I think killers should be.
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I would rather just make her hum non directional similar to how Freddy's is.
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This is my issue with DS. It punishes more than just tunnelers. Instead of an anti tunnel perk it's a 60 second immunity perk. I get hit with it many times after downing and hooking someone else.
It either needs its timer to be 45 seconds or have it deactivate after hooking someone different. Then it would actually be an anti tunnel perk.
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Honestly she just needs more penalties for not cleansing themselves. Being broken and infected needs some slow down on gen repair and have every time they vomit it gives them a momentary pause for the puke animation. This slows down their repair and makes looping more dangerous if they refuse to cleanse.
They also need to take the negatives off Iridescent Seal, it doesn't deserve to have them.
This could be said for a lot of other killers ultra rares as well.
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I agree. In terms of skill required to play at a high capacity in rank 1 games I would put the top 3 most required as:
- Spirit
- Huntress
- Nurse
Just my opinion.
Keep in mind this isn't power level, but simply the skill required to play them at a top level capacity.
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I'm hoping they'll be releasing a new road map here soon so we can have something to go by.
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@Poweas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/483885#Comment_483885
@Blueberry not going to lie, when you said 'First things first' it reminded me of Nightcore Believer.
I LoL'd for real haha
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@NeaJovovich said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/484215#Comment_484215
So what is it that you want?
Open fields without any gyms or obstacles to mind game?
I'm sorry, but Survivors need to have a chance.
If you don't like that concept, go shoot fish in a barrel... That seems to be what you're after.
"I'm sorry, but Survivors need to have a chance."
I never said a single thing to imply that they shouldn't
"If you don't like that concept"
You literally don't even know my opinion yet and you are already insulting. You need to relax.
"Open fields without any gyms or obstacles to mind game?"
If before getting insulting and jumping to conclusions you had just asked calmy what my ideas were I would have told you.
I think there should be less safe pallets and more of them be mind gameable so each is a battle of skill. The number of pallets should also be slightly lessened.
Now currently survivors rely way too heavily on pallets to survive. That is why at the same time this change goes through, the maps need to have MASSIVELY more debris/grass/reeds/boxes/fog etc to make juking mid chase much more viable than it currently is and so that survivors have more ways to survive besides just pallets.
They haven't been able to touch pallets yet because it's the only thing survivors have which is the problem. This would also add more variety to the game in terms of playstyles.
This would also have the nice side affect of buffing the weaker killers and nerfing the stronger ones to balance the meta killers a little more. This is because "generally" the best killers are those that counter looping. With loops weakened and not the survivors sole way of survivors the "stealth" killers would get a huge boost as the reason they are weak is because of the looping.
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I actually like it. It would give some extra incentive not to DC. Plus just some nice challenge to see how long you can go.
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I wouldn't mind if it just got lessened a little. Maybe like 35 seconds to activate.
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/483878#Comment_483878
while i would thinnk of such a concept to be a good idea, majority of survivors would just avoid ranking up to avoid harder games and being able to bully less skilled killers.
high rank queues would literally take hours to fill one lobby...
if you ask me, a secondary objective should be implemented to stop the amount of genrush the killers need to go through. i hope the devs will come up with some good ideas...
That's more an issue with not having rank rewards or punishing derankers than a reason not to do the aforementioned idea.
That said, I do like the idea of extra objectives. I just feel like the devs wouldn't make it as time consuming as it should be simply because they will worry about its affects on lower ranks.
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@ShyN3ko said:
We see only 2 killer, because this killer abilities work correctly.
As Example Pig RBT:
- the time slow is RNG
- most of the addons are useless
- you cant control this ability, because its RNG
- survivors can still gen rush
- survivors can escape with a RBT on the head
- the killer skill doesnt matter
I agree with you on those points. I take more issue with Pigs crouch and ambush than her traps though.
Pallet loops are just too strong to where unless the killers power counters looping they aren't viable. The only one that gets around this is Billy because he has everything else in spades.
However that said, pallets are all survivors have currently because of poor map design so they rely on them too heavily. The loops need to be weakened but the survivors would need large map reworks simultaneously to make other forms of survival possible.
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@prayer_survivor said:
I played a game now at level 10 survivor with another 3 12-16 survivors. The killer was a lvl 8 spirit with barbacue, hex ruin, and noed and also ebony memento mori and prayer beads bracelet. Also the killer tunneled, as 90% of killers in these ranks.
Is this balance? 3 DCs said no.
You had a group of very low ranks against a much higher rank using the absolute best addons that are very rare and an Ebony Mori that is ultra rare. That isn't a balance issue, it was a matchmaking one.
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Yeah there's at least 1-4 DC's in 8/10 of my games.
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@ShyN3ko said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/484152#Comment_484152
I use this low numbers, because otherwise people wouldnt understand it.
Yes you can get better as killer, but this numbers are just impossible vs good survivors.
Basically. Which is where the rank 1 frustration comes from and why we generally only see 2 killers there.