Killer ability movement speed needs an update
Survivor
Survivor running: 4.0 m/s
Sprintboost: 6.0 m/s for 3 seconds
Pig
Pig crouching: 3.68 m/s
Pig ambush: 6.4 m/s for 2.5 seconds
- No Addons
SPIRIT
Phase walk: 7.04 m/s for 5 seconds
- Speed and Duration Addons
LEGION
Frenzy: 5.0 m/s for 10 seconds
- Duration Addons
Source
https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Movement_Speeds
2,5 seconds(Pig ability duration time)
Survivor with Sprintboost: 6*2,5 = 15
Pig: 6,4*2,5 = 16
Spirit: 7,04*2,5 = 17,6
Legion: 5*2,5 = 12,5
5 seconds(Spirit ABILITY DURATION TIME)
Survivor with Sprintboost: 6*3 + 4*2 = 26
Pig: 6,4*2,5 + 4,6*2,5 = 27,5
Spirit: 7,04*5 = 35,2
Legion: 5*5 = 25
10 seconds(Legion ABILITY DURATION TIME)
Survivor with Sprintboost: 6*3 + 4*7 = 46
Pig: 6,4*2,5 4,6*7,5 = 50,5
Spirit: 7,04*5 + 4,4*5 = 57,2
Legion: 5*10 = 50
Conclusion
Current killer ability movement speed:
2,5 seconds: Spirit win
5 seconds: Spirit win
10 seconds: Spirit win
Pig and Legion need a killer ability movement speed buff.
Example:
Legion: 6 m/s
Spirit: 7 m/s
Pig: 8 m/s
Comments
I'm not sure what your conclusion is. What do you want to see updated and what do want to say with all these fancy numbers?
@Orti
Before update:
2,5 seconds: Spirit win
5 seconds: Spirit win
10 seconds: Spirit win
After update:
2,5 seconds: Pig win
5 seconds: Spirit win
10 seconds: Legion win
Better?
Im still confused what you are trying to say
@Milo
Its like a m/s race.
Pig should win a 2,5 seconds race.
Spirit should win a 5 seconds race.
Legion should win a 10 seconds race.
Current the Spirit win all races.
Sry for my bad english.
@ShyN3ko want to said that pig and Legion needs a buff to movement speed to their power.
@Ihatelife
uhhhhhhhhh.
yes.
.........................
Now I feel dumb XD
Ahh I see. I don't think so Pig and Legion aren't intended to beat the Spirit in that sort of play style. Pig is about sneaking up and forcing survivors to abandon a loop or get a hit on it. Legion is about putting damage on as many targets as possible his don+'t mean his ability is meant to give you all these hits sometimes you'rte just supposed to traverse the distance,
Spirit is supposed to be superior in catching up and downing survivors.
Of course they need to rework most killers if they ever want make this game balanced, but increasing numbers wouldn't help with that or would make killers to identical to each other
In my opinion Pig should beat Spirit in a 2,5 second race.
Otherwise its just stupid.
And Pig is only 3 m/s faster than survivors with Sprintboost.
Trust me as pig main, you just hate this perk,
because it destroy every sneak attack.
@ShyN3ko Isn't SB just anti sneak attack perk at this point?
@Milo
All Exhausted perks are only for the chase.
And its just boring vs Sprintboost as pig.
Survivors hear the ambush sound and then they must just run.
The Pig is stealthy, her dash attack has the surprise factor that makes it more effective than it seems.
Legion's speed is mostly for map presence, gives away the position of survivors and allow to vault stuff.
The Spirit's ability is mostly about mindgames during chases.
Those are all different abilities, it's like comparing apples to oranges.
@ShyN3ko The purpose of sprint burst is to counter sneak attacks like pigs or wraiths so this isn't an argument. Sprint burst also beats spirit if she is coming to while phasing. Pig if all killer abilities would beat the perks the survivors have there would be no use in them so this isn't a thing in DbD
@ShyN3ko So Head On is also for chases?
SB *was* for chases when the exhaustion recovered while running (so you could get multiple in one run prolonging the chase more). As of today i rarely see SB and if i do they just use it to either bait the first hit or to counter my sneak behind them.
I don't see why Pig and Legion should ever beat Spirit in a sprint. Spirit is based around her fast movement ability.
Pig is built around sneaking and bear traps.
Legion is designed to go into slasher frenzies against all nearby survivors.
As for Sprint Burst, well what do you want SB to be even less useful than it already is? SB has long fallen out of favor in the meta. You just want Pig to absolutely hard-counter Sprint Burst as part of your base kit.
Well killer's power obviously should be stronger than one survivor perk.
Legion 10 seconds = map pressure
Spirit 5 seconds = chases
Pig 2,5 seconds = stealth attack
Every killer has his own strengths.
Pig would win the short race and Legion would win the long chases.
So but why should I play Pig or Legion?
I could just use Spirit and then I win all chases.
I would have fast attacks and a big map pressure.
@Milo
Thats true.
But I must behind the survivor and then I would hit the survivor with sprintboost.
There must be counterplay as killer.
@ShyN3ko It's the same as Dead Hard. Wait it out. Other than that the only other counterplay would be exhaustion reducing add-ons.
Mind you im talking about all killers not only pig.
@Milo
And what if only pig can counter Sprintboost?
She would be the stealth attack killer meme.
I'm not sure if I could agree with that. To use the pig, as an example, if you decided to ambush someone as they sprint burst away, you shouldn't catch up. You used your power at the wrong time and so you missed. Even though you may not have landed a hit, you will close a decent amount of the gap.
If you increase that to 8m/s, though, that's an insane amount of speed. That's enough to make just about any pallet an unsafe pallet. I could crouch at every loop and get a hit nearly every time.
Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't want to see people be rewarded for using their power poorly. If they timed it wrong and didn't plan for the sprint burst, that's on them.
How do you wait out SB as pig? just go back to crouchwalking really slowly with your camera dragging along the ground?
I noticed the wraith is missing from the comparisons with his decloak lunge attack. Funny enough, I find that the easiest to hit a SB person or to bait the SB with of the 4. Just give em a bing but not a bong and then go after em :D
"forcing survivors to abandon a loop or get a hit on it"
Which does not currently happen against any actually competent high rank survivors. By those standards it is currently failing its intended purpose. Anyone getting hit by Pigs ambush at a loop currently is a low rank or potato. Her ambush isn't good enough, or her crouch for that matter.
But how can I tell as killer:"This survivor has Sprintboost".
And yes 8 is a big number.
But now use the math:
Current version:
6,4*2,5 = 16
My version:
8*2,5 = 20
SprintBoost: 6*3=18m
Thats only 4 m differents.
And she doesnt have addons for the movement speed.
Spirit has addons for it.
I think my idea is still worth for the PTB.
We could test out the movement speed and then decide @Peanits
Agreed.
This is what OP is trying to say. Pig should be winning the short chase but currently is not. The ambush is too predictable and unreliable. Her crouch viewpoint also needs to be raised.
There literally is no right time to use her ambush attack right now is the real problem. The only time any gap would actually be closed is if there is not a single window or pallet nearby, and if they have spine chill or premonition they likely got even MORE of a head start than the roar gave them.
The other applications are things like pallet loops to try to mindgame the survivor, but a lot of them just move on to another nearby loop or jungle gym or anything, and you can't see them do it so you're mindgaming yourself most of the time. I just crouch and uncrouch immediately more often than actually use it for that anymore.
If its intended for SB to beat ambush abilities, ambush abilities need to be made better in other scenarios than just trying to catch survivors asleep on gens. The wraith is not a great killer, but the way his cloak movement speed and uncloak dash lunge work makes the pig's ambush seem downright defective by comparison.
@Blueberry
Yeah sry for my bad english.
I cant explain well.
Im coming from germany.
Pig and Legion :"Every killer should have his own strength."
Spirit:"Hold my sword".
This is why instead of giving it speed you should add more skill potential to it. The roar needs to be at the end of the charge. It gives way too much of a heads up that you are using it to be viable. The counter play is them actually being observant of their surroundings or if they're at a pallet watching you crouch. This isn't even going into the perks that counter it even with this buff. It needs to be more viable. Her crouch viewpoint is also too low.
The first time, you wouldn't. You'd probably miss that first one and that's okay. After that, you'll remember "this guy has sprint burst, I shouldn't try to ambush them". You might want to crouch up to them and then uncrouch at the last second, possibly using your ambush at a short loop down the line.
It's fine I figured it wasn't your first language.
As you were saying, Spirit just fulfills all those roles better, rather than each killer being better in a certain scenario which is what it should be and what your post was illustrating.
Thats all well and good, but it more often turns into "they have SB, a detection perk, or an SWF who told them i'm trying to sneak up on them... guess i'll stop using crouch this match"
I second this. Pigs antiloop ambush worked because no one knew about it. Its fully countered when you run away.
I tested how much distance you gain when you leave the loop as soon as the pig crouches and its ~20m. This is the minimum distance even if you crouch and uncrouch immediately while walking towards the fleeing survivor.
Her antiloop is decent as is, it works when survivors stay. The problem is the long uncrouch time, so you cant effectively fake the ambush and force survivors to run away. They will usually actually reach the the next pallet.
A shorter uncrouch time would benefit her mindgame part greatly at higher ranks.
@Blueberry On unsafe palettes you can get hits thanks to the ambush even on some safe palettes it works even on high rank against decent survivors, of course not all the time but it can work. Also this isn't what the Pig is made for anyway. No need to discuss that the PIg need some sort of buff
@Peanits
Spirit: 3*7,04 = 22,2
Pig: 2,5*6,4=16
Sprintboost 3* 6 = 18
Yes, I use the ambush only on short loops.
As Spirit, I use it on every loop.
They cant see me and I cant see them.
There is rly no point for playing Pig, if you have Spirit.
My opinion is still:"Pig should win a 2,5 second race vs the Spirit".
Its not your opinion and thats totally fine.
But maybe we should test new movement speed numbers for this 3 killers.
Example:
Legion: 6 m/s
Spirit: 7 m/s
Pig: 8 m/s
As programmer, I need 1-10 min for change this variables.
You guys have a PTB, you should test more crazy stuff.
She is a low-mid tier killer and got a nerf last month.
I rly hate Nurse and Billy 100 times in a row.
I too would like it if they'd get a little more experimental in their PTB's just to see how well some new ideas work. Especially when they're such fast and easy number tweaks as you mentioned.
@ShyN3ko there was no Pig nerf last month, you just can't adept to a different way of playing a killer, Pig is as good as before at slowing down the game. Sorry you're not getting tunnel kills at the end anymore otherwise I don't understand why you think she got nerfed. She is still fun and is good at mind gaming thanks to her low high, the ambush is also still the same
In all honesty SB is the only exhaustion perk which getting a way is easier to use against the pig, with Legion you can wait it out before using your power and get closer, part of their problem wwas the free hit if you change them like this you remove some counter play, you also make all the other exhuastion perks a bit less viable and you will catch up on normal running surviors way to easily with this change.
It means you may miss the first hit if they run SB agaisnt the pig but the pig has more issues than the ambush as they can be seen from accross the map with such a huge head, I would prefer her to be more concealed so they dont know they are coming and even if using SB they wont know what direction to run in so it creates more mind games rather than hand them a hit due to making them faster.
8ms a second seems a Bit extravagant. She’s not an Olympic level sprinter.
Funnily enough in regards to another’s post, Amanda’s low POV Andy the roar being too early came up on a q&a back shortly after her release and I think Matthieu said they would consider it. It’s a shame they deemed it unnecessary. I love the idea of the ambush attack but uncrouching is so much more viable
Exactly. The fact that in 90% of the cases you are better off just uncrouching instead of Ambushing should tell the devs that there's an issue.
lol, since when the perk should be stronger than the killer's power?
I dont tunnel as endgame pig and i dont understand why I should tunnel.
Noed + Blood Warden + RBT = Much pressure for all survivors in the endgame.
Now you can just run through the exit gates with a RBT.
Its a high number, but the ambush time is only 2,5 seconds.
16m->20m
Math is sometimes weird.
@Peanits
Btw I want ask something.
What if the dash duration is 2 seconds and the movement speed is 8 m/s?
Then I would have this numbers:
Survivor with SB: 12 m
Survivor without SB: 8 m
Pig dash : 16 m = 2 seconds * 8 m/s
It would be faster, but you could only use it on short loops.
Btw I still prefer 2,5 seconds.
@Blueberry
This would be an interesting statistic.
Not all killers have the same speed theres a pro and con and pig speed its ok if you have problen with it use BL devs arent going to make all killer speed the same some of them are different for a reason of theyre own power
The "nerf" is a result of EGC. They had to rework her to adapt to the new EGC rules. If you want someone to blame, blame the people who wanted the EGC.
That said, I'm not against buffing Pig. Let's be honest about it though and not go this roundabout passive-aggressive way of "suggesting" buffs to her while talking about something else.
Me? The actual buff I would like to see from Pig is her crouching size. I want her to be sneakier and stealthier while crouching, so she can more easily sneak up on people. She's still too easy to spot even crouching. I want her to be really good at sneaking up on people better than Stealth Myers. Maybe change the shade of her coat a little to make it more Blendette. Imagine a Pig as stealthy as Claudette. That's what I want.
Her ambush is fine in my opinion, I don't think it's an issue, and if there are survivors who used a perks lot to early detect her or used up a valuable exhaustion perk slot to avoid her attack, then good on them. They deserve to at least get some mileage out of their perk.
Example:
Legion: 6 m/s
Spirit: 7 m/s
Pig: 8 m/s
Totally the same speed.
Pig is good in fast and low range stealth attacks.
Spirit is normal speed and normal range.
Legion is slow speed and long range.
But in the current version, Spirit is in everything better.
omg someone else understands the roar kill any surprise, as it happens before the dash even starts
@TKTK
8 m/s
2 seconds
Roar sound only, if the pig damage a survivor
This would be rly scary