BloodBird

@Eleghost said:
A better test would be how long it takes a killer to hit you when running in a straight line while injured. I would say it's probably a second or 2 longer compared to without MFT.

I duid that test as well, didn't post it right away cause the results were confusing, on midwich running straight with MFT, I got hit just turning the corner for the second time, but with hope nearly made a full loop before getting hit, the difference was about 5 seconds vs the less than 1 in the other test.

in Proof that Made for this is Broken (Not OP, like Actually Broken) Comment by BloodBird July 11, 2023

@MaTtRoSiTy said:
I didn't think much of it until I faced a decent survivor with it yesterday and boy does it make weaker killers have a miserable time. It is amazing how such a small increase in base speed can make so many loops take an extra loop or even more to finally get a pallet/hit

It's worse than that, in most cases it makes a lunge attack impossible to hit with, one simple turn from the survivor just makes a lunge miss.

in Proof that Made for this is Broken (Not OP, like Actually Broken) Comment by BloodBird July 10, 2023

Please be aware I'm not posting this to prove any kind of "point", I was just very proud of this game.

No tunneling, No slugging, No camping, No perks, No addons, 12 hooks 😁

in For those who think Wraith is still a bad killer Comment by BloodBird July 2, 2023

@Cypherius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3465183#Comment_3465183
The play style used in the video is definitely efficient in regular matches. It requires a decent amount of coordination from the survivors (too much for the average solo queue team) and a lot of players don't have the patience to play against such a boring strategy. Personally, i would rather be hard tunneled than having a long match against this build.
However there is a bit of context missing from your post:
The team on the first 2 matches had high ping . Good survivor gameplay relies on good timing and moment to moment decision making that you can't do reliably with ping that awful. The Wraith got easy hits that would not have happened without the ping issue.
The Killer got some good maps/gen spread for their play style of defending a 3 Gen all game long.
He did not "destroy" the survivors. You make it sound like it was a stomp.
The final match was against a team with no restrictions and good ping on the best map for that strategy and the wraith lost it pretty badly.

This is why I prefer my build to the guy in the videos, personally though I no longer care whether people give a wraith any credit, I prefer no one respect him, so when I get into a game with someone, they misjudge the situation.

One thing I will say tho, is my build its at is strongest during final gen, i have many games where i lose 3 gens in 5 minutes, I still win by the end. Its so easy to patrol 3 gens when the loops are all dead.

Btw the point of this thread isn't to compare Wraith to the top 3 killers, simply to show how far you can take him with the right build and strategy, its dangerous to write off any killer or player from a single glance/thought tho, it shows how uncreative a player is who would think simple looping or the same strategy will work in every situation against every killer. If it did, this game would be painfully boring.

in For those who think Wraith is still a bad killer Comment by BloodBird June 27, 2023

@Pluto_1 said:
I play the wraith with decent success using lethal pursuer, nowhere to hide, jolt, and lightborn. For addons I like the blood family and the bone clapper. While I'm searching I'll ring the bell periodically and they don't know where I'm coming from.
If I run the iri spirit addon I'll run pop goes the weasel with it.

One suggestion for you, if what you use is working than great, but you're wasting a perk slot using lethal pursuer if you're also using All-Seeing Spirit, since you don't need early use of aura when you know what gen they are on anyway.

in For those who think Wraith is still a bad killer Comment by BloodBird June 27, 2023

@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3465371#Comment_3465371
btw call of brine regress 3.75 additional seconds over 60 seconds compared to normal kicking, not sure if you care but just a reminder.

I know call of brine is better than normal kicking, but here is something that even Otzdarva and the other commentator neglected to realize what was happening in that game that no doubt the Wraith main knew all too well he was doing (I only watched the first game in full mind you). As a wraith your ability to down people is limited early game, but your ability to INJURE people is HIGH, especially with good swf's like that refusing to use pallets. This is why for a long time my build didn't even have gen regression, because the more people are injured, that is your gen regression, even with regular kick over COB. It now takes two ppl to heal each other once medkits are depleted, and if they don't heal, especially with fearmonger in play, they risk going down at a gen. It's a double benefit, either they lose gen progress by having to stop to heal, or they risk being downed by getting caught repairing a gen while injured, possibly hence why those survivors choose healing over gens.

Now that I use pop, that slow process is sped up once I get the occasional hook, as the gens that get close get destroyed by it.

COB/Eruption is a valid method sure, but not 100% necessary except maybe against super sweaty gen rushers perhaps. But I'll long maintain that for Wraith, the best gen-regression is injuries, I try to injure ppl as much as possible, I'd rather everyone be injured than even getting one person downed. Cause that's food for later. You watch that video you will see how far he commits just for the injury than runs off.

in For those who think Wraith is still a bad killer Comment by BloodBird June 27, 2023

@Merudo said:
Here is a recent video of a casual Wraith main destroying a competitive "pro" SWF:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVffK6eNhC4
His strategy was the one I recommended: basically an early 3-gen, with Jolt + Eruption + Call of Brine to control & regress them. Really long and boring playstyle, but eventually the map was cleared of pallets and the Wraith won.

Here's my thoughts on this, I am quite familiar with a build such as this, before it's nerf, I used the eruption meta to hold 7 gens consistently. I am also familiar with the slow burn war of attrition playstyle he employed and have done so many times myself, it will work and people are not familiar with it generally. I however, feel myself at least would be more confident with all-seeing spirit and silent bell or perhaps swift hunt in this context. And with bamboozle and STBFL in place of some of his perks and adding in POP, I feel like I could do well in such a game as these. With all-seeing there is no waste of POP, I know exactly where to take it provided I have the hook for it, of course, if restricted to lesser addons I can use shadow dance + swift hunt or blind warrior mixtures.

I will say this as much, people who doubt the builds I say work so well, you will encounter a similar experience as these players did when you go against me, I use a build/strategy most are unfamiliar with and this is just evidence of what I've been saying that it can work. It's a slow burn as you can see, but the pressure and control over the game you can exert as a Wraith, people often aren't aware of how much they've screwed themselves before it's too late.

But either way, fun video, I no longer expect people to see Wraith's potential, in fact I kind of prefer people don't at this point, as it makes the element of shock and surprise that much more effective when I play :)

in For those who think Wraith is still a bad killer Comment by BloodBird June 27, 2023

Just want to bring this discussion back up with the release of Nicolas Cage not too far away, I really wish the dev's could do a survivor release people could actually find unique and interesting and not just for a meme that makes people forget how awful the last several releases even were.

in Petition to Bring Tucker and Dale from Tucker and Dale vs. Evil as a Exclusive Survivor Release Comment by BloodBird June 21, 2023

Well, seeing as how this thread got revived apart from my own actions and it is my original thread I will simply weigh in here real quick.

Last period it took me 72 games to reach Irri 1, however I had yet to adjust my build to what it is now till mid-way through that period. After rank reset, I did not choose to keep stats but I have relative numbers for my results.

Yesterday I reached Irri 1 again. It took me no less than 50 and no more than 60 games to get there this time. I can literally count on one hand the amount of games where I received a depip/killed no one and did not even have many games where I safety'd either.

Unlike last period and despite what the people in this thread have been saying, I can think of almost no games I played where I felt winning was impossible, even in the first few days where all the sweats and high rank players get mixed in. Furthermore, like I've stated before I did most of my winning without tunneling, slugging or camping, but I'm not above it. And against these "Coordinated swf's that would destroy me" sure the games were hard, but by forcing them into 3 gen and hard tunneling or slugging them, I won MORE of those games, than I lost. If I have to tunnel or slug to win I will and I CAN, I don't care what team it is.

I will say at higher and higher levels of play it becomes harder to play Wraith without addons, that's fair, however I can win on almost any map, the only maps thus far I find to be just a terrible experience (where I have to tunnel early on) are Garden of Joy, Shelter Woods and Haddonfield, I also don't like Midwich that much funnily enough but I can win on it without tunneling.

That all being said, I know Wraith's limitations, will I win against top 0.01% of swfs, no probably not, but what kind of dumb argument would that even be to state whether a killer or a player had skill/potential if they can't beat EVERY single team they play against.

I am not going to go into detail as to why I am so successful at this time with Wraith and what it is people are misunderstanding about the way I at least play him. Unless people are "genuinely" interested without a sense of arrogance about it.

I will end with this though. For those who do doubt a good wraith player. I can say with certainty that as of this moment, I have been able to maintain an 80-85% win rate where most of the time I do not even tunnel, slug or camp to win.

You wanna call me low mmr, or baselessly call me or wraith bad or claim without playing comp teams you can't call yourself good, it doesn't matter to me, at the end of the day I am winning, consistently without tunneling with a killer that everyone calls #########, and that's good enough for me 😉

*One last note, while I don't care too much for the competitive scene, if I did want to try that realm, I even have addons I can confidently use if restricted to yellow/brown, strong combo addons I'm saying.

Anyway, continue to rip me and Wraith apart at your leisure just wanted to provide this little update :)

in For those who think Wraith is still a bad killer Comment by BloodBird June 19, 2023

Best for Trapper and Worst for Trapper we're mostly determined by community feedback, as was worst for Nemesis.

Coal Tower as Nemesis Best was because it's the smallest map in the game and does not have the most amazing loops, so a Nemesis can get a lot of decent value from his zombies on that map.

in Best and Worst Maps for Every Killer Comment by BloodBird June 9, 2023

Here is what may be the final version of the tier list which if that is the case I will later repost it as it's own thread for easier viewability.

If anyone does have further suggestions I will be open to more changes excluding ones that have already been thoroughly discussed and keeping in mind that the maps are without addons.

in Best and Worst Map for Every Killer - Improved Through Community Feedback Comment by BloodBird June 5, 2023

Updated the list, here is Version 3, please let me know if there is any further changes people think should be made.

in Best and Worst Map for Every Killer - Improved Through Community Feedback Comment by BloodBird June 2, 2023

@robrob909 said:
Dead dog is a top 3 map for plague. The gens can be all be infected from the start. The hardest gen to defend main top can be hit with her power and down someone easily which completely nullifies any need to chase main.A 3 gen is easy to manage I don’t think I’ve ever lost on this map. Best plague map is shattered square worst is rpd where u don’t need to use resources to infinite. Rng on pools are also hell

Alright, plague is not one of my played killers, why borgo as best though?

in Best and Worst Map for Every Killer - Improved Through Community Feedback Comment by BloodBird May 31, 2023

Alright, after considering various feedback from the community here is Version 2 of my Best/Worst Maps list. 😀

in Best and Worst Map for Every Killer - Improved Through Community Feedback Comment by BloodBird May 31, 2023

@Aven_Fallen said:
Personally I think we have enough maps. Especially with the feature that you cannot get on the same Map twice in a row, you will have a good variety of Maps to play on so that every play-session feels different.
Also, if they would add more Maps to older Realms, this would mean no new Realms will be created. So Killers will come without their own Map. And the last time this happened (with Blight, Twins and Trickster), players were not happy either and wanted Maps for all of them.

You say that as if it can't be both things.

Right now, like literally during the PTB right NOW. The singularity has his own map, when it goes live, 4 OLDER MAPS have been given re-works ON TOP of that.

Why is it so impossible for Behaviour to set aside a team specifically to work on map creation. So that when a new killer goes live, they not only come with a map, but the update comes with new maps for older realms.

I seriously don't understand why the two things are necessarily exclusive here.

in The Dev's are allergic to expanding existing realms Comment by BloodBird May 31, 2023

@Marc_go_solo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442807#Comment_3442807
Whilst I do see what you're saying (if I'm right in assuming, you're suggesting 2 versions of a realm at least, whereby one map may favour killer more and another favours survivor more) and there's a good argument to be had there, my belief map offerings themselves are the problem.
The current defence to this is basically put in another map offering. The Sacrificial Ward is next to useless. Map offerings are seen as toxic (they are not). The easiest thing to do is perhaps increase the variation of cells in existing maps and remove map offerings entirely. That way we can forget about choosing maps to gain supposed advantages.
Besides, it's sometimes not as they expect. Ormand is meant to be survivor-sided, yet as killer it's one of my best maps to perform on (even though it STILL does not have a hook on the second level!)

On your last point that’s certainly true of many maps. As killer sided as midwich is (though i hate it as wraith), you hook one or two wrong kills on one side and you have no hooks left for a third kill sometimes.

I ultimately think there’s no reason to make realm after realm if they are going to let them gather dust and clog survivor and killer blood webs with more crappy offerings no one cares about. The more offerings that come out the less you get other more useful items. Or if not, the less you get useful maps people like.

But it certainly upsets me to see 5 cold wind maps still being re-balanced. And a two-year plan to give us more 1 map realms.

I still say I would have preferred racoon city streets over the police station. And we could have that. If they cared enough to expand the realms.

it’s just like the lightburn mechanic, it went virtually unused for 28 killer releases. Sadako didn’t even use the mechanic even though she goes invisible, like wth.

the devs have so many facets to this game they can’t keep track of them all. With millions of bugs they can hardly address. But even with that, they focus on all the wrong areas.

Great example, they nerf healing and nerf gen regression. Killers complained about being gen rushed. So they buffed pop, than made the most gen rush perk ever called scavenger, for no reason. That perk can so easily just give you a toolbox.

What the devs focus on hurts my brain.

in The Dev's are allergic to expanding existing realms Comment by BloodBird May 30, 2023

@Marc_go_solo said:
I don't want expansions on existing realms. I want new maps to add more variety.
If a new chapter has some link to an existing realm, I'd want it to look vastly different, rather than similar aesthetics. For example: another "Silent Hill" realm that explores another area with a different look - maybe the green insanity of Brookhaven, the overgrown nightmare of the theatre, or the warped liminal spaces of South Ashfield Heights.
There should absolutely more maps and I would desire different balances within them. The variety is an important factor. It would be dull and boring to just sit on what we have.

Don't you think having offering after offering like Garden of Joy or Midwich that goes to one and only one map is unbalancing the game allowing both killers and survivors to bully one or each side?

Whereas if most if not all realms had alternates than offering wouldn't inherently give who brought it the exact "bully" map they desire.

Bring coldwind or autohaven, you take your chances, bring midwich or garden, instant bully game. Like that's bad.

in The Dev's are allergic to expanding existing realms Comment by BloodBird May 30, 2023

I just think rather than new REALMS, I'd rather have new MAPS for existing realms. If they are gonna keep creating maps.

in The Dev's are allergic to expanding existing realms Comment by BloodBird May 30, 2023

Love this roadmap btw, where it is clear and evident they never will add a new alternate to an old realm, all the way through 2024 they clearly are gonna use the same tired forumula, new killer, new map, old reword, tired old same realms.

in The Dev's are allergic to expanding existing realms Comment by BloodBird May 30, 2023

I'm gonna continually update this thread with new versions of this map list based on community feedback, so I'll post a new version within a day or so, but in the meantime here is a response to some of the questions for my map choices, again, based on experience as well as logic and analysis of killer power and potential.

In the meantime I will go over the reasons for a few of my choices I read that people had disagreements with, if it doesn't sway you that's alright, was my logic though.

I put Badham as the best map for Hag because I was really trying to think what map had the best potential for steamrolling survivors when it came to her traps. While alot of maps have good coverage to hide traps. Badham typically has 3 separate gens that are all in hard to leave areas. The basement gen that can sometimes contain a second basement, the two story that has a gen where you can literally be bodyblocked, and the house of pain that forces you to take a staircase out. My thought is with well placed traps in each of these areas the teleport and insta hit/down potential on that map for a hag seemed very strong.

The reason I put saloon as a bad map for some killers (which can be helped by better gameplay decisions), is a lot of that map gives huge power to the survivors when it comes to looping if you don't break all the doors, and there are a lot of them. Pinhead in particular though I figured you can break his chains quite frequently on the water tower side of map. Winning on that map because the map is small is helped but the looping potential of some of the areas is also very high which can be frustrating for certain killers that rely on range rather than speed.

Leery's for myers is a good map, but not his best IMO, especially considering that even a scratch mirror can be easily countered on it, and if not you do still have a terror radius, hes a basic m1 killer and there is so much window potential on that map. However temple of purgation has so many hiding spots for a myers and catching people in certain places like the double basement can spell disaster for a squad.

Ghostface's worst being haddonfield in my mind came down to the fact that haddonfield is typically a draining map for an m1 killer, even with his stealth and marking power, you still have to catch people, and the window vaults on that map are downright insane. As I'm typing this I just got out of a map against a pyramid head on haddonfield, I juiced him so hard between dodging his power and taking window vaults that I literally never had to leave the left corner two story (the one with the two same side windows where gate can spawn), like every time you take a vault it's almost a reset of chase.

Nemesis being best at haddonfield was for the opposite reason of everything I just said. The windows can actually be the survivors downfall because of his ability to hit you while you vaulting them. Pallets are harder for nemesis but a window vault gives him a unmoving target, I figured that if you can limit survivors potential of vaulting on that map it becomes a way weaker map, and the zombies can be a huge pain for the survivors on that map as well.

Trapper's best map being swamp is somewhat personal to me, but even worse than midwich, the swamp has the best grass in the game for hiding traps and there's strats you can use with or without certain addons that basically disable both the small and big boat and the dock leaving only a few good pallets in the entire map (of which there aren't many), even when survivors know where your traps are, you can put them in chases where they either get downed by your weapon or run into a trap going for the only means of escape, windows right by grass. I've never had a better game as trapper than on that map.

Wraith is also personal for me, I am a wraith main (please no discussion about how good or bad wraiths are, I've had too many of those), but I found the potential for stealth, surprise and gen pressure you can achieve with a wraith worked the best on that map, and because the gens, pallets, vaults, almost all of it are always the same, a killer has as much of an advantage as a survivor does in terms of loop-anti-loop, there are no surprises so it usually just comes down to how solid is your gameplay. I really believe it's quite good for wraith.

As for wraiths worst, I would want to say garden of joy, but I can squeak out some victories on that map, but the one map I can't ever win on is the new Shelter Woods. I think one of the reasons for this is that it is actually tied with one other map for being the second largest map in the game, and while there is a lot of open areas, the main building is such a pain to loop people at. I think as well it's way too difficult to try and force a 3 gen or protect gens in general some times because they are so spread out on that map. There might be a bunch of factors but I don't have good games on that map, until I do, I can't think of a worse one for me or my killer at least.

If anyone has more questions on some map choices LMK, I will post a new version of the map list with some of your feedback taken into account. 🙂

in Best and Worst Map for Every Killer - Improved Through Community Feedback Comment by BloodBird May 26, 2023

Though the clip has no sound (forum only allows gif), I use silent bell so no bing bong. The reason only wraith can do it is while undetectable, he can surprise people so they don't let go of the gen and his out of cloak lunge allows him to reach even the person on the left side of the gen as shown in my clip.

If anyone believes another killer can do this, please post a clip I'm very curious to see (a clip in a live game against a real swf).

For reference, Undetectable, Survivor doesn't let go of gen, hit is on the left side of gen before the killer reaches the ground.

🙂

in Here's Something on Raccoon City that only a Wraith can do Comment by BloodBird May 23, 2023

@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3429612#Comment_3429612
If you looped well and did gens you should not have lost against wraith, an m1 killer, a good looper will waste at the very least 60 seconds against an m1 killer, maybe 30 if there are deadzones. So taking the average of 45 s, and taking into account each survivors will get chased 2 times since he didn't tunnel in the first chase 3 gens had half their progress done, later in the game assuming every time someone is being chased and someone on hook then each chase half a gen should be done, in 8 chases 4 gens should be done, the max he can get is a 2k, mind you we are using 45 seconds in chase which is not what a good survivor can do against a puny m1 killer and im talking time without exhaustions perk applied.

I'm done even responding to these dumb comments, Wraith is bad, so says you, good, hope to never play against me and find out than 😉

in For those who think Wraith is still a bad killer Comment by BloodBird May 17, 2023

Any further updates on the inclusion of killer bots for Custom Game? It would be really great to be able to test items, perks and whatnot against bots so one doesn't have to always have a friend to join with.

in When is dbd adding killer bots Comment by BloodBird May 16, 2023

I've done extensive build testing on Wraith, I've determined, at least for me, slowdown perks are a waste of time, more often than not, all it does is make you either have to waste time going to the gens to kick them too frequently or only offering slight delays but as long as there are 4 survivors by final gen they will get one.

The better strategy for Wraith at least (and do remember I don't tunnel or slug if I can help it), is to remove loops, keep people injured and maximize on cooldowns. In that effort I have even recently adjusted my build getting rid of deadlock entirely in place of Spirit Fury.

The logic here is not that I care necessarily about if I hit someone after it procs, but more so by people knowing I have it at all and using the addon shadow dance, they might start to pre-drop pallets allowing me to remove them faster, or they might choose not to drop in which case I'll just go through for the swing to injure or they do drop when I go through and I'll take the stun and the pallet and eventually have spirit fury which WILL help me get that hit. The biggest "slowdown" top a Wraith game is how you can actually deal with pallets, I've realized that allowing survivors to think they are safe to keep using them is what makes games so hard to win.

:)

in For those who think Wraith is still a bad killer Comment by BloodBird May 16, 2023

double-post, can't delete it, nice.

in For those who think Wraith is still a bad killer Comment by BloodBird May 16, 2023

@lifeisstrange said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3424711#Comment_3424711
Most stupidness thing they ever could have done. It was so nice that when they think they gonna get a free hit , just drop a flashbang so he know to back up and stops sneak tactics now almost everyday I get 5+ wraiths and its so stupid and annoying and EVERYONE of them run nurses +sloppy sheesh. At least let us be able to go through him if he is cloaked to compensate the lightburn being gone. I dont even care that its gone from nurse/artist because artist birds still can be counter in lockers and lightburning a nurse was like a 1 in million chance. Oh and take away silent bell then.

Silent bell is useless, I never run it, the only way it can be useful is if you also run the brown addon that suppresses terror radius after uncloak, good swf's will still see a wraith approaching silent bell or not.

Also lightburn was a mechanic that essentially bullied wraiths, nurses rarely got affected by it, and artist and hag, that had nothing to do with light burn, that was just flashlight effects. I wouldn't have even minded the mechanic, if the dev's could have at least justified keeping it, but they went through nearly 30 new killer releases without one being subject to the mechanic. Underutilized mechanics should not be kept in any game, not just DBD, especially when it just serves to make an already struggling killer worse.

It's like imagine if Trapper could no longer step in his own traps, while you could argue that it would make him stronger, he's already the weakest killer. He has an addon to avoid that but it would be a good buff to trapper to just make that basekit.

in For those who think Wraith is still a bad killer Comment by BloodBird May 16, 2023

Is it possible in this thread to move on from the discussion of blight and nurse, yes they are the god killers, the perfect killers, the mummy daddy killers. No one is or has ever been trying to compare Wraith to them except to let everyone know that there is no comparison. This thread was intended to discuss that wraith can be more effective than people give him credit for, even against good teams, even as an m1 killer, even without tunneling, in some cases even without addons, and yes, even on any map.

The onus here is the player who plays them and the build they use, I don't care what addons you use, without the right build to assist you from getting overly looped or from taking forever to get downs, or protect gens, it's all not gonna help. With the right build, my whole point was they can be a difficult killer to beat.

If you REALLY wanna compare them to blight/nurse, here is a better one, a wraith doesn't end a game quickly against good survivors, those killers do. A wraith's way of winning is meticulously removing strategic pallets, forcing injuries/heals, forcing 3 gen, slowly but surely getting one survivor near deathhook so by the time final gen rolls around, you have the anti-loop and anti-heal capabilities to now use your power way more effectively to secure the kill. With that kill you can grasp hold of the gens and slowly edge the other survivors towards death. Does it always work, noooooo. Does it work though, yes, even against good teams, even against good loopers.

Will a wraith often have a decent shot at beating the top 1% of players, not more than a blight or nurse, no one needs to keep bringing that up.

My whole point was a wraith is more useful than some people realize, that was it. But you are all viewing them the wrong way. To me there is no such thing as a quick game ender wraith, a good one, a really good one, takes their time, and sets the game up to their advantage, slowly but surely.

Please, enough already with the blight/nurse comparison's its getting old, we get it, they good killer, others bad killers. 🙄

in For those who think Wraith is still a bad killer Comment by BloodBird May 15, 2023

@PowZapBamWoofMeow said:
Tiers don’t mean shite. Just because you load in with Nurse or Blight =/= automatic win.
It’s not just skill either. Maps have a part in the equation. So does where the killer searches in the first minute, etc etc
Just find the killer you enjoy and play it. Any good player will win most games using any killer.
Once I get to p100 on Twins I may actually start leveling up Wraith myself.

Wraith is fun to play, one the biggest misconceptions with him which might explain this whole debacle of a thread, is that because he is an easy killer to learn/play against, that there isn't an err of difficulty in actually playing him. But what I've learned is, he is a complex killer if you wanna actually play at higher difficulty games and best better survivors, his addons are helpful but more important is his perks and you're playstyle. He's one of those killers where a chase committed too long or one or two missed swings could make the difference in a game, but once you kill that first survivor, the game can swing heavily in your favor. Probably why a lot of them choose to tunnel, I just don't have fun doing that.

in For those who think Wraith is still a bad killer Comment by BloodBird May 15, 2023

is there a reason you quote responsed me about my criticism that all players do is compare to nurse/blight only to compare wraith to nurse/blight, quite a lot. Like you didn't even address what i said.

For the love of god, I'm not stupid, i never compared to nurse/blight, i said people underestimate just how good a wraith CAN be, and often tier list him lower than they should.

All you people are so butthurt by the idea that any killer you don't respect as strong, can actually be.

If i see any more responses here that have anything more to say than nurse/blight comparisons i'll read them otherwise it's dribble.

in For those who think Wraith is still a bad killer Comment by BloodBird May 14, 2023

@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3424701#Comment_3424701
Wraith has many tiles in the game where he is powerless against a good survivor. It's really that simple.
Take the same two players and swap out Nurse or Blight and you have a completely different result where the Survivor is at the mercy of the killer instead.

I've noticed something about the DBD community, they are very single minded when it comes to "winning" and "strenght". All the time they compare every killer to "nurse or blight" because those killers can win, quickly and effectively.

Have you ever considered that Wraith can be as effective at winning as a nurse or blight but the only difference is, his playstyle does not allow him to do it quickly?

When i win, it's almost always during final gen, but that's because I'm purposefully setting up the entire map to my design. I'm meticulously remove all good pallet and all good loops and trying to move people towards 3 gen. Even if they don't by the time they get to that point in the game, my build is at its absolute strongest. No pallets, max stacks of STBFL, it's when I go in for the kills.

Like not everything in this game can be compared to two killers with a single quick and aggressive playstyle. Other killers have other ways of being played that are just as effective, it doesn't mean it isn't strong if it isn't the "same".

in For those who think Wraith is still a bad killer Comment by BloodBird May 13, 2023

Wanted to make one last post in this thread, it was stated by some that the Wraith is Map and Addon dependent, since I had never tried, didn't want to discount that opinion without evidence. So since you people like proof, here are 10 games I played since yesterday and today without any addons.

I won 8 out of 10 games fully, any of the 3k's are not 4k's because I don't slug the final survivor so I prefer to give them a chance at hatch, some found it and some didn't. There was not a single game I didn't kill at least 1 person it.

I also want to state for the record here, all 10 of these games I did not tunnel, slug or camp nearly at all in any of them.

Non toxic, no addons, any map Wraith. So yeah no, don't need the addons. 😊

You can call me low MMR if you want, if it makes you more content with Wraith stinking though 😉

in For those who think Wraith is still a bad killer Comment by BloodBird May 13, 2023

@Marc_go_solo said:
It doesn't matter what tier people want to label him as, it's not the killer but the player which matters.
There are examples of low tier killers beating really strong teams. Otz is a prime example of showing this with his Trapper.
If the Wraith is played by an inexperienced player who is trying to learn him, Wraith will play like an F tier. Someone who has put a lot of time into Wraith can make him S tier.
Sure, you can't prove how good a killer is based on one match, but neither can someone pigeon-hole a killer into a tier when the player is the biggest factor. That's why the Nurse, who is universally seen as the strongest killer, had the lowest kill rate in the last lot of stats which came in.

That's a very good way of putting it, maybe it would have been better to have started my post just by saying that what I mean by Potential, is reliant on the player using him. It's kind of funny when i read the posts saying how simple and basic wraith is. Cause inherently I agree, honestly I agree with what most people are saying about Wraith. The only difference is, I don't play a Wraith like almost any other typical Wraith player, when I do play him, it is 100% a mindgame, it is anything but simple, my perks have been meticulously designed to target all of Wraiths biggest weaknesses and strengths and compensate/boost them up. My playstyle as well is anything but predictable (I won't go into detail about it), essentially what I'm saying is, if you get into a game with me and treat me as a basic and easy to loop Wraith, by the time you get to the final gen if you should, it'll be too late before you realize how much control I actually exerted on that game.

I like wraith partly because of how many people don't see the potential you can utilize him for, and the more players think of him as nothing more than a simple and easy to loop killer, the easier i find it is to disprove that during my games.

Also, before the most recent update I was still winning games, but I can't say if I would have been as much without addons, but with the healing meta as it is right now, I have a good feeling I can still do quite fine without any addons. It certainly has me curious enough to play some games to test that before rank reset.

in For those who think Wraith is still a bad killer Comment by BloodBird May 11, 2023

Perhaps that is a fair point, trying to present something and engaging in diatribes doesn't help any real discussion. People can disagree with each other or agree but not to the same degree. I will apologize than for going a little far in this discussion.

in For those who think Wraith is still a bad killer Comment by BloodBird May 11, 2023

@Murgleïs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3424779#Comment_3424779
« I claimed Wraith CAN be played at a HIGH and COMPETETIVE level »
Back up your claim or don’t say anything.

I don't have to back anything up, because you just became the first person in this thread to agree with the entire goddamn point of my post. Even if you think I personally am NOT a "competitive" level wraith, you have accepted that there CAN be. My whole post was to show that I at least to me, play Wraith a lot differently and at a higher threshold than it seems a lot of the rest of the Wraith community does, based on the evidence I have seen. Most of the responses here were about the General Wraith, or myself as one.

So I thank you again, you have proved my point.

You are a legend sir, an absolute legend.

Edit: actually, I think I gave you too much credit, I think you we're "quoting" me there.

If that is the case than my bad, I thought you we're accidentally being smart. Cause to claim that someone playing a public and ranked game, only has any discernable skill, if they play competitive, again, with the top players in the world. Is such a jaded viewpoint on video games as a literal concept, it's like saying if you don't play in the NBA, you suck at basketball.

in For those who think Wraith is still a bad killer Comment by BloodBird May 11, 2023

@Murgleïs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3424769#Comment_3424769
Show us what you can do in competitive against god teams.

You just gave me the greatest compliment anyone in the DBD community has ever given me. You just insinuated that I'm so GOOD, that to truly test how GOOD I am, only the top 0.01% of survivor players in the entire world, could best me in a way to sufficiently determine just how GOOD I am.

Thank you 😜

in For those who think Wraith is still a bad killer Comment by BloodBird May 11, 2023

Its baffling how you guys are missing the friggen point here. I never claimed Wraith is S tier. I never claimed I am a god level player. I never claimed most wraith's are not B tier.

I claimed Wraith CAN be played at a HIGH and COMPETETIVE level where he can be AS GOOD as certain HIGHER tier killers when put in the right hands. And rather than prove that with my own logic, stats or even screenshots as everyone here is clearly so goddamn closed minded.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CX9_4qUFjj8

That's all I have to say. Its so dumb how this community puts killers in a box and tries to make these claims that because their Tier assesses that typically they would be played at a certain level of competitiveness, that no one in their right minds can ever play them well enough to raise that tier TO THAT PLAYER and in THOSE GAMES.

And no, I'm not saying that I am the #1 Wraith player, I'm saying I have it on good authority that most Wraith mains tunnel and slug to win, I DON'T, I don't cause I don't have to.

Tunneling is literally not a merit of skill, it's a goddamn crutch that bad players use on bad killers to play better, and that average players use on GOOD killers to play even better. If you are gonna boast about someone's skill and they tunnel all the time, I don't care if they are nurse or blight or wesker, you ain't impressing me.

But to make these brainless claims that killers should be placed in some tier box that no one can ever pull them out of.

I only have one last question than.

I want please, no jokes, or toxicity here, I'm genuinely curious. Why do you all even play this game? Do you really just pick 1 killer that you deem "good" and try to master them. If you play this game and believe that killers are what the stats or what the "tiers" say they are, and that simply by seeing a match is against a "low-tier" killer, that you believe that means you are going to win and win easily.

Like why do you play this game, a game that stringently unbalanced and pigeon-holed sounds like the most boring game imaginable.

I don't honestly care if people think Wraith or I am Bad, but I honestly, for real, just want to know what does everyone enjoy about this game?

I enjoy this game because no matter the killer you choose, you can find perk and addon combinations that can make them more effective than they might typically be based on the community's judgement of them. I like playing as ######### m1 killers like Myers, Ghostface, Freddy and coming up with builds that make them strong and annoying to play against.

It honestly seems like most of the community want this game to be one where as long as you understand the "meta" than any killer you play against, is as predictable and "rated" as you and the community deem them to be.

Again, this whole post was just to show the Wraith's "potential" not the Wraith's "standard" like good lord.

If anyone has a genuine answer to my question I really want to know, cause to be honest. Alot of this community treats other players like if they aren't AS GOOD as them, than they aren't even good at all, they are #########, and anytime people try to claim skill they have, it's the community's goal to like correct people, to put them in their place that, they aren't playing the "meta" the "high tier" killer that the community agrees upon, therefore there is no discussion that any other killer can even be good.

in For those who think Wraith is still a bad killer Comment by BloodBird May 11, 2023

@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3424723#Comment_3424723
Anyone who unironically uses the line "I'm high-mmr" instantly loses argument points.

Anyone who unironically discounts a player based on the killer they play, automatically loses points,.

in For those who think Wraith is still a bad killer Comment by BloodBird May 11, 2023

So everyone pretty much said what I was expecting, nay, hoping people would say, so this is my only response.

Wraith is without a doubt a B-Tier killer, and saying he is anything lower is a delusion on your own assessment of the game.

However, any killer can be higher than their own tier in the right hands. One screenshot proves nothing you are correct, but ME personally, I win just about 90% of my games, I am at a high MMR threshold, and I almost never tunnel, slug or camp in order to win, I even usually give final survivor a chance at hatch.

The addons are certainly helpful for Wraith, but I can still win games without them. That being said, the build you're looking at, is not one you can judge until you have played against it, not unless you actually understand why those perks are there.

This build is pretty much useless on any killer other than Wraith. The screenshot was simply an example of how strong a Wraith CAN be, when utilized the right way.

Fun fact, before Eruption got nerfed, I personally was able to win games without a single gen popping, and I could do this consistently.

You can make your instant judgement's all you want. But I do want to leave this thread with one thought when it comes to assessing killer and/or player skill.

Wesker is an A tier killer and everyone seems to agree with this. Everyone would also not argue that just about 90% of Wesker's are tunnelers, I have a friend who literally is keeping his own stats showing Wesker's tunnel three times more than any other killer.

Are people honestly going to make the argument, that in Dead By Daylight, when it comes to assessing killer/player skill/power, it is more impressive for a Wesker to win consistently, by relying almost solely on tunneling, than for a Warith, a "#########" killer, to win consistently and rarely ever tunnel.

I sometimes feel in this game and with it's community, people can't fathom that anything other than their already existing pre-conceived notions of what is or isn't good in this game could be questioned.

Anyway, I'm not posting this response cause I care too much if people think Wraith's are bad, just wanted to see what engagement it would get.

I actually love knowing that when I get into a match people must laugh when they see I'm a wraith, much like what happened in this chat, until I 4k them that is.

🙂

in For those who think Wraith is still a bad killer Comment by BloodBird May 11, 2023

@CorvusCorax86 said:
I would assume that some sort of teleportation (that makes it easier for killers to cover great distances) make killers move up on the ladder. Why did you put Freddy together with Ghost and Myers? The other two are slow whereas Freddy is great with add-ons.

Because freddy is great with addons, and without addons he's garbage :\