BlackRose89
BlackRose89
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I dont blame him. I have tried to play knight so many times just to quit after one match bc how clucky and buggy his power is. The one thing that drives me up a wall is using a guard to break a pallet in the middle of the chase. I have to spend time backing up or pos myself just to be able to enter my power and by the time I do all that the survivor is gone. I always hated you cant just highlight a wall or pallet and just press the button to command the gruad to break it without having to enter the orb and then command it to break it. So annoying…
If only the devs didnt waste so much time on what was a failed Twins rework and used that time to fix killers like Knight.
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@GeneralSkien said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703426#Comment_3703426
you underestimate how large 32 Meters is, additionally it now works with stealth killers, allowing for even more powerful combos with pig or other stealth killers. Also what? Ultimate weapon was downright broken on high mobility killers, it was good with normal killers but with killers like blight nurse and spirit it was too strong.
"additionally it now works with stealth killers"
If it was an aura perk and didn't have the blindness effect I would agree with you but why would any stealth killer want to run this perk? Say you playing GF and you open a locker and you make ppl scream within the 32m. Good job you just told those survivors you are in the area and they are now on full alert. You not going to sneak up on anyone with this perk as a stealth killer, it be like sneaking up on someone with your TR on. The only scream info perk that is good on stealth killers is Face The Darkness imo since even if they scream they still don't know if you near them or not.
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703846#Comment_3703846
I agree. There was a point and time in this game where the response to the backlash this PTB got would have been met with something along the lines of “the work and resources have already been put in, we’ll see how these changes go live and possibly consider changing things in the future”. Glad to see they can recognize that eating this loss was healthier for the game than being prideful.
Thought I get where you and the other person are coming from and I am also happy they didn't just push the rework to live but this should not ever happen again. This is why I refuse to praise and celebrate the devs in any way for this update because the twin rework should had never left the planning room to begin with. Sure it's great they listen to the community but maybe next time instead of putting years of work into a big update and waiting for a ptb to ask ppl options on it, provide a proof of concept so ppl can give them feedback or get well-known players(like twin mains) in the community to test changes before they push them into a ptb. If they did any of that anywhere doing the twin rework progress we would have been left such an empty mid-chapter and so much time wouldn't had been wasted on a failure rework, time that could have been used to help other killers like Myres and Freddy.
So instead of saying "thank you" all I'm going to say to the devs is do better next time…. This is the most disappointing update I have ever seen. Never have I felt so uninterested in an update in dbd before. The 8th-anniversary update better be a banger to make up for this cold boring update.
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I don't know how I feel about UW right now. Like I'm happy the scream is staying since it being a aura reading perks meant just another info perk getting hard counter by distortion. That said I'm not sure if this is going to be all that useful. It's hard to say personally. Honestly I just wish they did something to Distortion bc I hate this perk counters every aura reading perks and is so easy and free to use. Ppl complain how free current UW was while distortion is just as free since you rarely ever run out of stacks.
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@Alen_Starkly said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703315#Comment_3703315
I know what you mean but, they could have just pushed the changes to live, with some number tweaks to try to alleviate the problems. If would have been a bad play, in my opinion. Them instead reverting the changes was probably a harder decision given the amount of resources spent on the PTB stuff, but a much better one. So, it could have been much worse, but thanks to BHVR's willingness to revert, it wasn't. :)
I understand where you coming from but at the same time, I don't think the devs should be praised and celebrated for any of this. The thing is that none of this should have happened to begin with. It's not a new idea to have beta testers and have outside consulting for huge reworks/updates for something. So many other games use these for their updates. OW for example had selected a few players to test out Sombra's rework to test out a lot of different ideas before they committed to a change.
All they did was waste not only their time but ours as well for something that ended up being a 2-year QoL change. Now this mid-chapter has been left with little to no content and honestly one of the worst mid-chapters I can think of. There is nothing in this chapter to look forward to for most of the community. We could at least had a rework to Freddy or Myers by now if they just did these QoL changes for Twin 2 years ago. Now these killers have waited for their turn for updates for no reason whatsoever.
Don't get me wrong I'm happy they didn't push through the rework since it was so bad but I'm not going to sit here and say "Thank you" to the devs for wasting so much time for no really good reason.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703226#Comment_3703226
Yeah, something like that. I dont know how it is dealt in Overwatch, but it should not be streamed. Because "Work in progress" in DBD always translates to "The Devs promised", which is really not the case. So if people test stuff before the actual PTB, they should do it in private and not be able to leak it or show it.
Oh no the streamers dont stream what they get to play or test. They are under an NDA and are just invited to try changes out and give feedback. Its not all streamers either i believe, I think the OW devs invite others who have a background in playing the game. At least this the impression I get since few streamer I watch talk about what they tested after their NDA ran out and the update has already went public.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703159#Comment_3703159
100% agreed. It is quite obvious that it was not really tested through. Things which end up on the PTB should be in a very refined state and just finetuning should be happening from PTB to Live where the Players can give their input so that the Devs can see how they missed something.
But it cannot have been tested that much if basically everyone after playing one game of Twins knows that the changes were not good for the game.
IMO some players (maybe Supertesters which are under NDA) should have access to the newest changes and should give feedback on them. Players from all MMR-Brackets. And those should test those things before they even hit the PTB.
(For example in World of Tanks there are Supertesters who get access to new tanks before they are in the game. Those are picked from every Skill Bracket, so you have very good players, but also players who are way below average. And they get to test the Tanks on the Live Servers and give feedback about them afterwards. Obviously testing things on the Live-version of the game is not possible in DBD, but it should be possible on special Test Builds for those testers which are only available for a certain amount of time)
I agree they need ppl to test this stuff before it hits a ptb for the public to test it. I believe OW also does things like inviting streamers and others who play the game a lot to test changes before they hit live. I remember hearing back when Sombra had her rework ppl coming out and saying that the devs tested a lot of different ideas with her before they decided on what became the final rework version. If only BHVR did this with twins we would had a much better update for them than what we getting now, a 2 year QoL update.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703034#Comment_3703034
To be fair, they did try something different, and it didn't work, which they ahve reverted to go back to tne drawing board. Seems like a good outcome for Twins.
All other changes are good ammendments to the PTB state.
Ultimate weapon could go back to its old cooldown of 60 with this change. Glad to see it losing strength on Scream Pig and the insane mobility killers. I like this change cause it serves as a locker based version of Nowhere to Hide, and could find usage on Doctor and Wesker.
Decisive Strike animation removal was smart for now. I'm not against the idea of an animation but it needs to be way amoother and be made to look much better. Rather than a slow lift and stab, it needs to be integrated properly. The skill check needs to trigger immediately on pick up, and on success blend the pick animation with a vastly improved and much faster/forceful stab animation.
All in all, a good update in relation to the PTB changes.
Here is the thing a lot of ppl including Twin mains like Lynix said that this rework was going to be bad for Twin the second they saw the dev blog about it. If so many ppl could see the issues with the rework before they even tested than why didn't the devs see this? Someone on the dev team at some point doing the planning of this rework had to relieve how strong it was going to make twins and how much it would completely change how twins would play. This is why I said it was a failure bc the version of the rework we got should never made it to the ptb to begin with. In fact, a lot of twin mains have been saying they never really wanted a rework they just wanted QoL changes, these changes could been done two years ago instead of wasting so much dev time on a rework that was clearly going to fail. That dev time could been used on so many other killers who needed the help and now they have waited for their turn for no reason since all they waiting has been reduced to a few QoL changes.
Don't get me wrong I'm all for the devs to take risks and try things but I think it dumb that these changes took two years just for it to fail so badly that they had to walk every single one of them back. I will praise them for listening to feedback and realizing their mistakes but I will not praise them on this update. The update is a failure in my opinion bc it should never gotten to this point in the first place. There is nothing in this update that is exciting or to look forward to. Twin mains getting their QoL change sure but it took two years, UW imo is dead and I don't see any reason to run it, and the time on the new animation for DS was wasted bc they had to remove it as well. Hopefully, the anniversary update is going to be juicy to make up for the fact this update is so empty and is huge disappointment. I really don't see a reason to come back to dbd right now since there is nothing new or fun in this update. I might as well just stay on OW2.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703045#Comment_3703045
Not worst but so empty. For mid chapters where there is usualy no new content = more time for changes, this is quite dissapointing.
Like all we got is very few perk changes and Twins QoL buff and Blight prob nerf. And Haddofield small rework. Nothing exciting or super big.
I argue this is one of the worst patches if you consider how much dev time was wasted on a fail rework. We been waiting for two years for a twins rework only for it be a complete failure and huge mess. Thanks to that all that time used was reduced to few QoL changes that could had been done years ago and killers who actually need the help have to wait even longer. This patch is both completely empty and a failure thanks to the mess that was the twins rework.
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Im happy for twins mains but I think it's sad we had to wait two years for what ultimately became a QoL update for them. So much time wasted on a failed rework that could had been used to help other killers who needed it more like Freddy. Just sad... really sad. Once again I'm glad they walked the twin changes back but I'm not happy with the amount of time it took them to do the QoL changes. Also I still think this is one of the more boring patches. Nothing in this update is very exciting to me.
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I can relate to this so much!! I have 1400 hrs in dbd and still get so nervous at the beginning of killer match and I dont know why.
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I had a match as huntress the other night where I kill one survivor and for the rest of the game the other three just hide. I patrolled gens and couldn't find a single survivor. I looked everywhere for 10 minutes straight and just gave up. It was so boring that it drove me to just alt-f4 for the night xD
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Im a average Sadoko lover, I don't consider myself a main of her since I don't play her all the time and well I'm not that great as her, I would say I'm pretty avg on her. As a note I mainly play Xeno and Legion and I play every killer a little bit other than blight, nurse, oni and Billy (I HATE playing these killers). That said I don't really complain about her 3rd version, I enjoy it more than 2.0 but I do think she weak. I would say she around C tier, not super weak like Freddy or Trapper but also not super strong like A or S tier killers. Personally I only want few things for her.
- a addon pass since a lot of her add-ons are just bad, the only good ones imo are the bloody nail and Ring drawing. Honestly I don't see any reason to ever take these two off since the other add-ons are just meh compared to these two.
- I like TV auras be completely removed except for the ones that survivors need to drop their tape off. I feel knowing where every on TV at all times is too much free information for survivors.
- Personally I honestly want ring drawing be based kit. It would add some risk for holding a tape again and be a additional reward the players for hooking a survivor instead of just slugging them.
Those about the only things I personally want for her. I do enjoy her 3.0 version but she is weak in some areas and could use some love just to help players.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3698389#Comment_3698389
Im all for your changes. I proposed them months ago for the first and second rewoork. They never got implemented.
Additionally i proposed an addon pass and even created a post where many dedicated players posted their ides. All ended in nothing.
This and the recent Pig changes are the sole reason why I distanced myself from being too ionvested in the forums and dbd in general. Its not worth it one bit and leads to nothing but a feeling of worthlessness.
I completely understand your feelings. It sucks when it feels like devs don't listen to ppl. I hate to see what going to happen with Twin since their rework has been a complete disaster. At least I can live with where Sadoko is right now. I do have fun playing her even when I'm losing as her which I cant say about a lot of other killers who feel outright bad when Im losing as them.
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Im glad he was good enough to do that. I struggle to get one win on that killer.Thier power is just too much for me. I don't like that I can hit the survivor with the projectile most of the time but get nothing out of it and I have a hard time aiming lob projectiles. I gave up on the unknown almost month after they came out. Plus I have let found any good guide for them.
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I'll just go back to the aura reading perks I used before UW. Honestly, I do hate every single aura reading perk in the game gets countered by one single survivor perk that isn't even hard to use and has pretty much 100% uptime but it's whatever at this point. I just go back to what I used before.
On another topic, I have seen one person(not going to tell them) who says you should use your eyes and ears to find survivors but here is the thing some of us killers do not have the best hearing and can't afford some $100+ headphone to hear a survivor slight breathing. I do little depend on info perks to help find ppl who just want to hide behind a rock all day. For example, the other day I was playing huntress with no info, I killed one person and the other three just started to hide. I went from gen to gen trying my best to find someone but I never did. I got so bored out of my mind since all I was doing was walking from gen to gen and kicking gens and looking around the areas of the gens for 10mins. I gave up and just afk and let them go. To me it wasn't worth wasting any more time on those ppl to get 2 or 3 more kills, the one was enough for me at that point. I honestly had no way to find these people and I tried my hardest to use my eyes and ears to do that with no luck. Sometime killers do need some info perks esp if they don't have the best hearing.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697892#Comment_3697892
I main both Sadako and Pig.
Sadako has chase capabilities. Demanifested Mindgames and no pallet stun is something. With the bloody fingernails addon, even post tp speed can often lead to hits. It's small, but it's unique and it's there. Don't underestimate it.
The second part of why one could main her is condemned. A tool, that can be extremely oppressive at best and good slowdown at worst. In terms of slowdown, it's worse than pig. In terms of lethality, it's a lot better than Pig.
If played at her best, Sadako can be really strong with the focus on condemned. Explaining all the intricacies of this mechanic would take a long time to explain.
In a tier list, I would put her right next to Pig in c tier. Above wraith, Ghosty, Freddy, Trapper, Myers and some others.
She's good, she just requires a lot of time to learn and some addons.
If someone goes against the top survivor squad, most killers fall flat. Sadako is no exception. This is sadly how this game works. Against most public survivors though, she's very decent.
I mostly agree with Radiant about the state of Sadako. In the right hands she can be pretty good and she just requires some learning. I'm not the best Sadako since I don't play her all the time(Im a legion and Xeno main) but I do have fun when I do play her. I play decent enough that I can usually get 1 or 2 kills every match(one usually being from Condem). I will say I would like to get better at her but right now Im happy with where she at right now.
Saying all that there are a few small things I wish devs would do for her. Some of her add-ons really need some love and could use buffs, I still think survivors are given way too much free info on where TVs are and if they are on or not, and I think tapes should return back to 2s insertion since I think 1s is way too fast. Other than those I wouldn't do anything else to her.
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Honestly, I have a hard time figuring out how I feel about dbd. I have been playing it less and less over last few months. I used to play it every night, using random killers and I looked forward to it playing. Now tho I have to make myself play it. I don't even know what killer to play anymore. Like I don't mind the metas of the game or anything(tho I HATE buckle up + FTP) but I will say matches are not really fun. I think one thing I'm tired of is my match quality. Almost all my matches are either me getting my a** handed to me or I completely dominating the survivors and getting a 3k or 4k at 4 gens. Very rarely I get matches that feel balanced and rewarding. I was hoping the unknown would help me get back into DBD but he actually did the opposite. My first week on them was a nightmare and I just wasn't having fun with them. The upcoming changes dont really excite me either.
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@Peanits said:
First, I just want to make it absolutely clear that this is not intended to 'solve tunneling'. This change is solely to make the perk provide more consistent value when it activates, not bring an end to the entire tunneling playstyle. I wouldn't recommend approaching this with the idea that it will end tunneling entirely as that is not the purpose behind the change - you would be setting yourself up for disappointment.
Secondly, regarding disabling Killer powers: I see this getting suggested a lot, but this is not an option. It's one of those things that sounds really simple on paper, but once you start drilling down into it, it turns out to be a whole can of worms. Each Killer power works differently from one another, and there is no one-size-fits all solution that can apply to all of them. Each power would need to be considered on a case by case basis to determine what should happen when they're 'disabled'.
For example, even if you disable the Killer's power button to stop The Nurse from blinking, there are multiple Killers who may already have traps set up around the map - would these also need to be disabled, or are they okay since they were already there? Some Killers also have passive powers/mechanics, such as The Cenobite's Chain Hunt, which would also need to be considered. It would also limit the possibilities for future Killer powers since we would always need to worry, "But how would it work if it was disabled by this one specific perk?"
To be frank, this would be unsustainable. With over 30 Killers in the game and more on the way, having special conditions for each one would require far too much ongoing support just to make that condition feasible. To give an real example from the past, the original version of Tinkerer used to increase the effectiveness of all charge speed add-ons. Even with only a handful of Killers in the game at the time, it ended up being very confusing for players to keep track of which add-ons it could affect, a nightmare to balance because those add-ons could be too strong with the perk or too weak without it, and an unreasonable amount of work to upkeep as the game grew. In the same way, this would require quite a bit of additional work to be done for every Killer just to support one perk. It's one of the reasons that perks typically don't interact with powers, and the few that do are gradually moving away from that (e.g. Adrenaline waking up Survivors).
Don't get me wrong, it's a neat idea and the intention behind it is good, but it's way outside the scope for a single perk and could quickly turn into a confusing mess.
I understand what you saying and respect it but I still have issues with DS being behind a paywall, esp when you have ALOT of useless free perks on both sides. Otz made a good point that you could have at least moved the effect of DS on a perk like This is Happening, a perk that have little to no use for new or old players right now.
I know you all don't see DS as a fix to tunneling but a lot of your player base does. They will use DS as way to fix tunneling and will use it every single match no matter what. Putting it back to 5s only brings back those days where all we see from survivors will be the same 4 perks every single match. We all know that Fog whispers and others have talked to you and shared ideas about how to make the anti-tunneling experience better for everyone not just for some players. I don't understand why the devs didn't take this chance to address this. Once again all you doing is telling players esp newer players that if you don't want to be tunnel you have to spend $5 to get one single perk to help combat it. As I said no matter what you say, ppl in your player base will always see DS as a band-aid/short-term fix to tunneling.
I end this with that I am happy you shared the reasoning for not disabling killer powers. That does make some sense and I respect that that much. I just think there were better opinions the devs could have done to help against tunneling(which once again is the reason ppl run DS in the first place) for everyone instead of just putting DS(a $5 perk) back to 5s.
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@Yharwick said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691005#Comment_3691005
I'm gonna be honest, if someone is in a place where $5 is a lot they probably shouldn't be playing DBD in the first place because they have much more important things to be figuring out.
Also I disagree you have to have DS to not be tunneled, just DH and OtR is more than enough to not be speed run out of the game, DS just makes it even more effective cuz you get to waste the killers time even more and let's you use OtR and DH in the same chase.
What are you saying? That if you are in a bad spot money-wise you shouldn't play video games? Ppl play games to relax and have fun. Maybe they just only had enough money to buy the base game and not any of the dlc. Why do these ppl have to deal with tunneling while ppl who can afford perks don't? A perk like DS should be offered to everyone not to just the ppl who can afford a DLC. Once again why make ppl feel they are forced to buy a DLC they may even want just so they don't have to deal with tunneling? As Otz said there are plenty of free perks that are completely trash that could be made into the new DS. I would love to see This Not Happening be made into a useful aint tunnel perk since it's completely useless as it is now.
Well based on comments, most of the community would have to disagree with you about OtR and DH is more than enough. If those two perks were good enough to battle tunneling we wouldn't have so many ppl begging for DS to be put back to 5 seconds. We wouldn't be having this discussion now either. The fact is that DS has always been the best anit tunneling perk and I think it sucks that ppl have to feel forced to buy a DLC they may not even want in the first place to get it. Sure there is the shine but let's be honest the shine sucks! It takes 6 months to a year for a actually decent perk to even show up on that thing. For example, I wanted Overcome but I didn't want to buy Jonah since I don't like how he looks and would never play him. I wanted over a year for it to show up in the shine. Luckily I didn't need Overcome since there were plenty of better exhaustion perks. Imagine tho that overcome was the only good exhaustion perk and felt like you needed it to even play the game? It would suck if I had to wait a whole year to even get it or pay money to just get a character I would never play.
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@Yharwick said:
Saying it's behind a paywall while accurate is also kinda goofy. It's $5, pay $5 level up Laurie and then level up David and while you level up those two you're grinding shards and then drop the 4.5k shards on Zarina congrats you now have access to the DH/DS/OtR combo and you only has to pay $5 for one of the characters and the other two are free. You can fill that 4th slot with one of the many strong free perks in the game (Adren, Balanced Landing, Bond, Prove, Unbreakable, Kindred, etc). I really feel like Otz makes the new player experience out to be so much worse than it actually is.
I feel this comes from a place of privilege. For some $5 is a lot esp when they just paid the money to buy the game in the first place. It's not like DBD is an f2p game. The thing is it feels like you have to have DS not to be tunnel and it is not right to make ppl feel they have to buy a dlc just so they can enjoy playing the game. You should want to buy a DLC because you like the character or content it has, not buy it out of fear of being tunneled. It's kind of like pay to win in some ways but instead of pay to win, it's pay to stay alive a little longer.
The problem also comes from the fact the killer can figure out if a player is new and bank on the fact they most likely haven't spent the money for DS and just tunnel them out. Its not hard to figure out if a player is new to dbd or not. Killer can look at play hours on stream(if the person is playing on stream) or just watch the path through the map or how they act. If someone seem kinda lost chances are they are new and the odds of them having DS is pretty low.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690625#Comment_3690625
That's still not even what Otz said. He never said to disable killer powers for X amount of seconds. All he said was to make killers like Nurse lose their tokens when stunned. The disable every killers power is OPs suggestion.
There is a fair amount of misinformation being spread about this video so I'm going to summarise the main points:
- He thinks this change will pretty much only benefit the average survivor. New survivors won't be able to use it and the killer will be more inclined to tunnel survivor they believe are new or don't own the DLC. High MMR survivors already ran DS and knew how to get good value from it so this change won't have too much impact for them as they already could use it pretty well. The average player who isn't skilled enough to do so will benefit though as it makes it easy to make distance but he thinks it's unfair that the tunnelling experience won't be improved for everyone.
- The change impacts slower killers more than the higher tier ones. Killers such as Nurse and Blight won't be bothered as much by an extra 2 seconds because they can make distance easily but killer like Ghostface and Pig will be hurt even more.
- He thinks the change will back fire as it's a short term bandaid fix for only a portion of the player base and in the long term it will have negative effects - they have stuck themselves in a corner where now the only way to combat tunnelling is a pay walled perk
- Both sides have just gone back to their original metas
His suggestions:
- Either give the effect to a generic perk like 'This Is Not Happening' and rework DS into something else, or nerf DS and make a better generic anti-tunnelling perk so that everyone can benefit from it.
- Have the perk put high tier killers power on cool down (his main suggestion was for Nurse to lose her tokens when stunned) so that all killers are affected fairly.
This is a great summary of what Otz thoughts on DS being Buffed. I completely agree with otz on this one as well. Also to those who are saying "well this is better than nothing" Shouldn't you want more from the devs? Settling for the bare minimum isn't helping you or the game. Be vocal about how you want more from DBD and want the devs to actually make the anti tunneling experience better for everyone instead of going with the most simple opinion that only going to affect some of the people. As Otz said in that video "I'm sure many other people have told them that they could make some changes to make the anti-tunneling experience better for everyone not just for some players and instead they chose to do the simpler, lazier, more shortsighted option." That exactly what this DS change is, it's the simpler, lazier, and shortsighted option that the devs could had chosen and think none of us should settle for that.
Devs of DBD please do better…
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So I just say overall I am fine with DS being 5 secs but I still don't like this buff for the same reasons as Otz has been very vocal about. I'm not going to list all of them since they are the same reasons as Otz and he has talked about it in a tweet, on his discord, and in today's video which I share since I think it's a great video. That said I will talk about a few of the things. This buff may look good on paper but it's just a short-term fix, and honestly heavy limits the devs when comes to the future of the game. Also, we just going back to the days before the meta shake-up where every survivor build will just have DS in it with most likely UB and DH. Not really fun for either the killer or the survivors imo. Lastly its the fact that a anti-tunnel perk are going to be tied to dlc perks. So this DS update isn't going to help newer players at all bc if the killer catches on that a survivor is new to the game(either by how they acting in the match or just looking at their hours in stream before the match) they will tunnel them out bc the chances that they have paid $5 for DS are pretty low. The better way was at least to rework DS and move its effect to one of the useless free perks Survivor has like This not Happening. Then at least everyone has access to a anti tunnel perk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pqMjGedQt8
There are other reasons but I really encourage everyone to watch Otzs video today on the DS buff:Also, you see that nowhere in this video he is saying that tunneling should be encouraged, he just saying that there are much better ways to stop tunneling and the buff to DS is just the easy way out for the devs. I agree with him when he says around the 10:07 mark: "I'm sure many other people have told them that they could make some changes to make the anti-tunneling experience better for everyone not just for some players and instead they chose to do the simpler, lazier, more shortsighted option."
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688599#Comment_3688599
It doesn't hurt any Killer that doesn't hurt themselves. Getting hit by a DS is a self-report of low skill in the majority of instances. A skilled Killer can 8 hook before a single kill (and still have gens that need to be done) if they play that way the entire time. A Killer crutching on Tunneling to win will have an artificially inflated MMR, and not deserve the rating they allegedly have.
In other words, it doesn't hurt Killers, it hurts playstyles that shouldn't be encouraged. Players engaging in undesirable playstyles shouldn't be rewarded for that. I would prefer a better basekit solution be implemented, but 5s DS is a decent bronze medal.It's an off-topic topic but I want to comment on the idea of "artificially inflated MMR" So many ppl in this community act like DBD mmr system is this strict system at only pairs you up with others same skill level as you. From my exp and being someone with over 1000 hrs I say I don't think this is true. We all know that MMR has a soft cap and the second you get to that soft cap it doesn't matter how high your mmr is, you still get paired with others who are at that soft cap. I get paired with survivors all the time who are clearly more skilled and better than me and as a result, my matches are so unfun to the point I just want to play something else. For exp the last two nights I wanted to play something outside the 2 killers I main, so I decided on Dredge and knight. My matches with those killers was so bad and so unfun. I didn't even get a single hook at all in those nights of playing. I cant tell you why either but it did feel like I was being paired against ppl who was well above my MMR. Before you ask no I did not "artificially inflate" my MMR with these killers. I have never tunnel ppl to win on any killer, the way I play most of the time is by bouncing between 2 or 3 survivors.
My main point is no matter what players eventually reach the soft cap of the MMR system no matter how they play(esp true for killers) and in turn will always get matches that feel unfair to them. The biggest problem in dbd is match quality in feel. I don't think it tunneling, camping, gen rushing, ect. I think it is the fact that mmr system honestly sucks and is most likely the worst mmr system in gaming in my option. I'll also add on my mains I have the opposite exp where I feel the games are way too easy and I stomp survivors 75% of the time.
Again sorry for getting off topic just wanted to get that off my chest. I do agree in most cases DS will only hurt killers who want to hard tunnel but I think there were better ways to deal with those types of killers than just putting DS back to 5 secs. I do not want to settle for things, I wholeheartedly believe the devs should do better and stop choosing the easiest options for balancing or fixing an issue. The easiest option isn't always the best and imo the DS change is far from the best…I think it's the worst option they could have done.
P.S. If the mods remove this comment bc I criticize the devs then I honestly don't know what I can say anymore that would be acceptable in their eyes. -
@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687569#Comment_3687569
Another survivor can heal you in 5 seconds after unhooking you.
I mean I guess but I still think DS shouldn't be used as a way to freely body-block a killer who just wants to go after the unhooker. I said it before and I say it again, I am fine with DS as long as it is used in the tended way which is to fight hard tunneling but I am not ok with the idea of using it as a weapon against killers who have no interest in tunneling and just want to chase the unhooker in peace. Also yes I know you dont have to pick them up but that just leads to killers slugging more and then survivors will just complain all the time about how they hate it when killers leave them on the ground. It's an endless circle of complaining at this point.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687569#Comment_3687569
Sure then it should stay on if the survivor is hurt and can do a gen.
The idea tho is to stop the use of DS as a weapon. Im fine with DS if a killer is hard tunneling someone right off the hook but in times when this isnt happening then DS shouldn't work. Alot of times I try to go after the unhooker bc I don't like to tunnel but I have the hooked survivor body block me and stop me from going after their unhooker. Nothing is stoping survivors from getting healed and then come body block you when you not even tunneling them. Honestly, all 5s DS will do is either make killer tunnel even harder to get DS out of the way so Survivor can't use it later or make the killer slug and we all know how much survivors love slugging in this game.
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Personally, I think it is because rude players don't get punished in dbd. Every night I have someone be rude to me or BM me in the game even though I play really nice. I report these players but nothing is done to them. Meanwhile here on the forums they enforce strict rules where you have to be respectful and civil towards everyone, including the devs. You even get a comment removed if you use the wrong words to criticize the devs on here but in the game, ppl are allowed to be as rude and hateful all they want to be. I just think in-game toxic behavior should be punished more just like it is here on the forums. Lucky tho I turned off chat in the game now and never looked at it, I don't even say GGs anymore.
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I don't see an issue with DS turning off if the survivor is fully healed. If you have time to heal to full either by another survivor or while using a perk then you are not being tunneled at that point.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Yes it is. A certain content creator (once again) trying to talk things strong which are not strong does not change that.
This comment to those who make comments like this one. I love how much it shows you haven't even bothered to read his post about DS and his reasonings why he is not a fan of buffing DS. For example one of the reasons he is not a fan of the idea of buffing DS is the fact its a paid perk and another anit tunnel perk that is locked behind paid DLC and it forces players(esp newer players) to spend money just so they can't be a tunnel. He rather dev work on making either a free anti-tunnel perk or a base kit change that discourages tunneling. He has so many of other reasoning and I encourage you all to actually read the other thread of posts before you make comments like this one.
Here is the whole tweet: -
My thoughts:
Twins: I really can't say much on this since I don't play twins. I am looking forward to trying them out but I just don't know if the few Twin Mains out there will like this change or not. I know one of them isn't thrilled with the changes. Lynxi on twitter is pretty vocal on the thought these changes will encourage slugging even more and Twins snowballing is kinda dead. So who knows honestly.
Blight: I'm not surprised hug teching is going away. If ppl remember the devs said years ago they wanted to remove hug teching. Personally, I don't care either way since I don't play Blight and have no plans on playing him.
Haddonfield: Looking forward to seeing the updates. I hate Haddonfield just because other houses and all the strong windows. Hopefully, it feels better to play on for both survivors and killers.
UW: I'm not a fan. I think they only needed the cooldown nerf but it being an aura perk now just really kills the perk for me. It now joins all the other aura-reading perks where it is completely shut down by Distortion. I still think I rather run Nowhere to hide, Floods, or BBQ over UW.
Adrenaline: I really happy with this change since I never liked the fact you could get a free heal off-hook and it woke you up against a Freddy. Maybe it didn't need the speed nerf but overall I am happy with this change,
DS: Though I'm kinda fine with DS being 5 sec again but I do have my worries about it. Like Otz I still hate an anti-tunneling perk is locked behind paid DLC and think they need to make something free for survivors to use or do something base kit about tunneling. Also I still think DS will be useless against the top-tier killers(nurse, blight, and Spirit) and this buff will only really affect low tier killers even more. Overall two more seconds isn't going to do much of a speedy killer but it will greatly hurt the slower killers who are in B or lower tiers. Lastly, I'm worried about DS being weaponized against killers who don't want to tunnel. I can see OtR/Base kit BT and DS being used together to body block the killer from going after the unhooker and being forced to hit and then down a survivor. We have to see but I do have my concerns.
The rest: I love everything else! I hated depiping and I'm looking forward to the shop changes. Also I'm so happy we get to work on the rift day one of a new patch.
Overall it seems like a nice update but it does have some concerning issues. We just have to see how the rework twin plays out and how the buffs and nerfs to the perks will affect the game.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3683633#Comment_3683633
Place power at loop, Survivor must leave and take a hit or die.
Punishes you for teammates errors.
Forces you into lose-lose scenarios.
Removes almost all skill expression as Survivor.
Still holds down 3-gens extremely well.
Has the most slapped together power of all time. 80% of people have no clue what it does and I can't blame them.
Exemplifies holding W and pre-running playstyle, resulting in drawn out matches.
Completely anecdotal, but every SM I've played against since her rework has been an absolutely toxic human being. I 100% believe she attracts the worst people in the community
"Completely anecdotal, but every SM I've played against since her rework has been an absolutely toxic human being. I 100% believe she attracts the worst people in the community"
As you said this is anecdotal so why even bring it up? Doesn't prove anything. I can say the same thing about Billy Mains. Every Billy I have ever gone up against has been some of the most toxic players I have come across yet Billy mains are some of the most loved kill mains by this community. This is one of many reasons why Billy has been my most hated killer in the game ever since I started back in 2021. At the end of the day, I don't see the point of bring up an anecdotal statement esp when you even said it yourself that it's anecdotal.
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Personally I absolutely love BPs and if event imo would been so much better if it was just a super blood hunt from the beginning. The main reason why I love BP is I'm trying to p100 Legion and Xenomorph. My Legion is p45 and Xeno is p10. So I need as much BP as possible lol. Also having a lot of BP right after a chapter release helps bc I can build up Unknown Add-ons inventory so when I do play them I don't have to worry about not having my favorite add-ons.
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As a killer main who has over 1000 hrs in the game now, I cant say I have a lot of easy matches. Sure I get a few matches a night where I get an easy win bc either someone DCs or kills themselves on the hook but most of my matches range from ok to really hard. For example today I played two matches as Unknown. My first match was really hard, I got I think 6 or 7 hooks and got one kill. The survivors played really well, looped me well, and dodged the UVA wonderfully. The one person I end up killing was most likely the weakest player in the lobby. Now the match after that was a completely different story where I had an easy time but only because one of the Fengs decided to bring no mither and Sables' gen basement perk. I saw her with BBQ and went to the basement and the second I down her she DCed, shortly after that someone else DC and then it was GG. I ended up letting the other Feng go since I felt bad.
I get more of the first match on any of the killers I play a lot than the 2nd match where the survivors just kinda gave up. Overall guess what Im saying is I think for the avg killer I don't think the game is all that easy at least not as easy as what a lot of ppl make it out to be. I think it seems really easy to killer bc sometimes the matchmaking not work as well as it should.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680340#Comment_3680340
The second Snowman event was killer-sided though and while the void event was good for survivors, it didn’t stink for killers either. I’d say it was fairly balanced. Events usually favor killer though.
Personally I hated the void event as killer. It really wasn't fun in my opinion and it didn't feel balance at all. None of the events ever feel balance. I do agree that most events are killer sided but there have been events that were survivor sided. At the end of the day I don't like any of these events because they always leave one side feeling like the other getting more than them. Honestly I can't think of one event I really liked. I only really enjoy the anniversary just for the cake offerings and the BP.
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Most likely in the minority here but I honestly don't like it when they adds event buffs to either side. I feel it's always imbalance and one side gets a stronger effect than the other. Last few events have been like this and I honestly can't think of a event where both sides effects that balance each other out. That just my opinion though. I rather events focus on fun goofy things than giving some major buff to either side.
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After a few games I can say he not really my favorite killer. I know few ppl love him like Otz, he even been saying all day how he thinks unknown is the best killer DBD came out with in a long long time. I don't really see the it honestly, the projector is annoying how it bounces off stuff and it still doesn't feel that rewarding to hit the survivor with it. I rather play Wesker, Legion, or even Sadoko than the unknown.
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As for Huntress I agree with with few ppl who said that they probably buffing her for newer players. Personally I think they buffed her in the wrong ways, what they should had done was add more lockers or move lockers around on maps where she has the hardest time on. The reason why I think they didn't go this route tho is time and effort. Rearranging or adding lockers to maps would cost them more development time than just changing base numbers on huntress herself. They took the easier option out of the two. It's sad because adding lockers would not only help huntress but also help trickster and dredge as well.
As for survivor nerfs, nothing in this patch really nerfs survivors as far as I know. Sure Sable perks aren't meta changing perks but they not useless either. I actually really like the healing one and the basement unhooking one also has the free 20s aura reading on the killer when you are unhooked from any hook not just basement. By the way the unknown perks aren't really meta changing either. One of only going to useful on skill checks builds for doctor, the haste one is really situational, and unforeseen is just a slightly better trails/dark devotion. Nothing really meta here or game changing. It also seems a lot of people are forgetting that mangled is getting a heavy nerf which will make healing easier for survivors and in few months UW will be mostly will be getting a heavy nerf as well as DS getting a buff. Sure this patch doesn't have a lot for survivors but survivors are getting few things like the mangled nerf in this patch and after that a nerf to one of best info/tracking perks(UW) and a buff to a anti tunneling perk(DS).
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669781#Comment_3669781
Ok, you do you.
I'll maybe put it in my load out, as it also counters Sable's better perk, Strength in Shadows.
More power to you than. I just don't have the room for it in my builds. I would have to give up a chase perk or regression perk for it. On top of that I have to constantly be looking towards basement to even see the aura. I'm pretty sure it doesn't give a notification when someone enters basement right? It just shows you their aura for 6 secs and that it. I just know I used it once on huntress to get her adept when I started playing two years ago and I found it one of the completely useless perks in the game for killer, excluding insidious.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669776#Comment_3669776
Or put on territorial.
Hahaha no thanks. I don't care if this perk becomes meta, you never going to make me use that garbage perk. I rather run only 3 perks than have that perk in any of my builds.
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Don't think it's going to be meta or anything. It still a niche perk that requires a significant time sink. As a killer main my only concern is it stacking with BNPs but we see, I doubt it be that impactful.
That said I still not a huge fan of this just because it involves basement. Now I feel I'm going to have to visit basement few times in a match and I honestly hate basement as a mechanic in the game. I don't like taking the time to go to basement and I hate hooking in basement. Basement just feels like a time waster to me and I like to ignore it all together as killer. Now I'm going to have to at least go there once in while and I'm not a fan of that.
Overall all im mostly okay with this perk but I don't hate the effect it's going to have on my mindset.
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I love legion because they are easy to play and really don't require much knowledge outside standard killer knowledge to play them. The other killers you listed(Wesker, oni, Chucky, trapper and ect) requires significant knowledge to play. Like Wesker you have to know few techniques and mechanical skills to perform on him especially in higher MMR loddies. Personally I don't have the reflex or speed to play killers that requires flicking or fast movement. That why I find Chucky and Obi extremely hard to play. I like my m1 killers that are simply to understand and easy to learn. I play games to have fun not to work hard.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669206#Comment_3669206
I don't know, I guess this must be just some kind of region or MMR difference. I rarely see Skull Merchants, and when I do see them, they're just playing her normally.
Maybe there's some other region or MMR bracket where these SM players really are causing problems like this, but it sure as hell isn't mine.
Even then, though, I generally object to one annoying playstyle being used to dismiss an entire killer. It'd be like saying "What's the point of playing against Leatherface/Huntress" because a lot of them facecamp, or "What's the point of playing against Artist/Knight" because a lot of them just drop their power at loops. It's not exactly constructive.
I have to agree, I have let seen a 3 genning SM ever since her last rework. Meanwhile I have seen plagues, sing, and trappers 3 genning way more often. The few SM I have had just play the game somewhat normal. They use her power in chases like intended and rarely just sit in one location on the map. Reality is that if a killer wants to 3 gen it doesn't matter what killer they on, they will 3 gen no matter what.
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@Chaeron said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3664639#Comment_3664639
She's a problematic killer in Dead by Daylight. They need to address this killer one way or another at some point. Especially with how "surprisingly" high her pickrate has been recently.
High pick rate??? In the stats the devs shared SM isn't even in the top ten of most picked killers. She sitting at a low 2% pick rate and she is 26th out all killers.
Now you may be talking about her killrate but that's has a * beside it bc ppl are most likely are just killing themselves on hook. Personally ppl just need to over themselves and tough it out. Nothing wrong with this current SM imo and I rather the devs focus on killers who actually needs the help like Freddy. Survivors just need to stop being cry babies and play the game especially when her actual pick rate isn't even that high. I rarely ever see SM. I see more trappers than her xD
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Personally, I have always hated and always will hate him. I hate playing him and hate going against him. I hate his design, gameplay, his dumb limp that makes me feel slower than 115%, ect. He the only killer I have a burning hatred for.
Either way I do think most survivors only love Billy's because they only went against newbies who don't know how to use him and stomp him or the mains who only care about doing curves and will throw a match just do cool curve plays. Either way it meant a easy win for them unless. On top of all that Billy was a super rare killer and it's even rarer to encounter a try hard Billy who playing to win.
The story is different now he been buffed, there is a lot more Billys and odds are alot more of them are trying to win more than goofing around. Survivors mains only want easy wins against killers who aren't trying or weak killers.
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I don't think anything can be done about SM. I don't see a another rework doing anything about ppl giving up against her or stopping the hate she gets. From what I seen she is the most hated killer DBD ever seen. I hear old Legion was the same when they came out and it took time for ppl to stop hating them but I still see ppl who still hate legion. As someone who plays legion I see a lot of dcs and unhooks lol.
I just think SM will be hated no matter what her power is or how she plays. Her reputation is beyond fixing. Ppl will always associate her with 3 genning. Also I know ppl don't agree with this take but I still think there quite a few people out there who hate just because of her visual design and lore. I don't think I ever seen any other killer get so much hate threads that was purely focus on how they looked or their bg story. Personally I like her design and I don't mind her lore either. Sure it's not the best lore that was ever created but it's not as bad as ppl make it out to be. For me I mostly like it because she not made out to be some victim like all the other original female killers in the game. Most of the other female killers are more or less victims in their stories that lead to them being killers. Hag was kidnapped and locked up by cannibals, spirit was murdered by her father, artist was attacked by a corrupted group and had her hands cut off. All these women became killers to get revenge on someone meanwhile SM is a killer because she enjoys killing. I like that about her because it different.
Anyway sorry for getting off topic there. The matter of fact is that no matter what you do to SM, I truly believe it won't stop ppl going next against her.
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I can only speak for myself but it's completely a mental thing for me. When I see a high prestige number, I admittedly think I'm about to go into a match with survivors who have lot more hours than I do and are going to try hard. I know p100 doesn't mean much in skill but I can't help to psych myself out. I psych myself out so much that I make mistakes I shouldn't and make the match I have in vision the reality. I have the same issue when seeing a TTV. The difference is I can hide survivors names so I don't see who I'm going against but I can't do that with prestige levels. This is why as a killer main I hate seeing others prestige levels and wish they just hide that information.
It's not just that either tho. Personally I also don't think the MMR system is working half the time and we have no info on rather we being matched with others in our skill level. We have to just "trust" the system with no real information if the system is working or not. I used not want to see my MMR score or anything but after playing Hunt Showdown I changed my mind. I enjoyed seeing my MMR in that game because it gave me a decent picture of the lobby I just was in and I could see that the other players were in or close to my MMR. Now I wish DBD had something like that as well.
Overall I think it's both a psychology thing and the fact we just don't have any info on what our opponents skill level even is going into a match.
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Completely agree and it's annoying that people are not talking about how most of her add-on are getting nerfed as well with her RBT nerfs. Like most of her add-ons involves making her RBT harder to get off and make them little more lethal but if the traps are being reduced to "just for slowdown" then all these add-ons become completely useless. She is being left with maybe four good add-ons and one of those 4 is hurting your so call slowdown. Personally if these nerfs go through I like Amanda's letter changed so it doesn't take your RBT away and just give you wall hacks when crouching.
I don't know about anyone else but I hate when a killer only has few good add-ons and the rest is trash. It's the reason I don't like Freddy or PH because my builds with them will always be the same. Why run anything else other than range on PH? When not just run paint brush all the time on Freddy? Now pig joins them with "Why run any other addon other than chase on Pig?"
As for content creators I'm getting so annoyed with everyone who uses them to show if a killer is good or not especially when it comes to the PTB. Most streamers (esp the ones I watch) don't even do public matches on the PTB since queue times are so long. They play with their viewers or mods and that is not a good way imo to judge a killers strength since A) we don't know the survivors level of skill, and B) we don't know if the survivors are actually trying to win or they just there to help their fav streamer. Take Scott for example, I watched his game play of pig from the PTB and yeah he made her chase look strong but why should I take his word on this? He playing with his viewers so all I know they are either playing not to win bc it's against Scott and as far I know Scott never plays Pig. I believe any pig mains on here before I believe any content creator about how good Pig is. At least I know most of y'all most likely played in public matches.
Either way I got off topic a bit there. I just sad that Pig addon situation is being boiled down to having to run two of the few chase add-ons she has. Not really fun to not have options to pick from. These buffs were supposed to make it feel where you don't have to always run chase add-ons on her to have a decent chase but it doing the opposite.
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Personally I just think the two RBT nerfs she got was the wrong ones. The nerfs doesn't actually do anything to fix the main problem with pig and that's her synergy with screaming builds. A pig who wants to pop someone head will still do so if they running UW and Face the Darkness and harass the person with a trap on their head. Meanwhile these nerfs only hurt every one else and removes some nuance from playing pig. Honestly this post sums it better than I can:
@UndeddJester said:
First of all, BHVR, we are a humble group of Pig players who want to thank you for turning attention to our Killer. We would like to go on the record as saying we believe your intent for the Pig is coming from the correct place. We have discussed the changes at length and this is our findings regarding our beloved lady.
Her Chase
Enhancing her chase is a welcome improvement many of us have been eagerly waiting for, and we certainly approve of these changes to her crouch speed, crouch movement speed, and ambush duration/recovery. These changes have made noticeable differences in her performance at a variety of loops, such as the car loop tile on the Garden of Joy map, going around shorter loops around tiles, going around rubble & objects into straightaways, and expanding on the number of tiles she can catch survivors on in general.
However, despite these buffs she is plagued by the same issues as before, where using any pre-dropping, any semi-decent pallet, and holding W to run away as she attempts to ambush, will still beat her. These same tiles and strategies lead to her buffs becoming relatively negligible in practice; crouching makes her lose distance while the survivor simply drops the pallet and runs away to gain more distance, ergo she is prevented from using her killer ability. This makes her ambush and crouch buffs unreliable to use across a variety of similar situations, and is apparent on even her strongest maps for stealth/ambushing like Midwich. We do not think the current list of changes will bring about the intended outcome of keeping the Pig viable in their current state.
We would appreciate more buffs in this department. With this in mind, we know you cannot make her unreasonably strong, so we encourage you to take into close consideration the slowdown brought on by her Reverse Bear Traps (RBTs). Promoting unfun playstyles is the last thing we ask for, but it is apparent that these initial number buffs are just not enough to bring Pig past how she performs currently overall.
Why RBTs need toning down
We acknowledge that buffs to her chase will require a tradeoff, and the strength of her RBTs should absolutely correlate to the strength of her chase. Throughout a number of recent updates, there has been a rise in the number of strong scream perks, which has facilitated a less engaging and unfun playstyle for the Pig. Chasing off Pig boxes and forcing pops was always possible, however, the time efficiency of doing so was quite bad due to the need to force a survivor to let go, and the timer is halted while in a chase. With the addition of perks like Hex: Face the Darkness and Ultimate Weapon, interrupting boxes has become both easier and more viable to force head pops, with little counterplay for survivors outside of Calm Spirit. We do understand that something needs to be done about this playstyle.
Why the current nerfs aren't the solution
The current nerfs are:
- The Pig can no longer see the auras of Jigsaw Boxes
- Reverse Bear Traps now have a base timer of 3 minutes (was 2.5 minutes)
We want to stress, these nerfs do not solve the problems players are having with Pig.
The extra 30s makes forcing a head pop kill longer, more tedious, and less profitable, but ultimately it doesn't prevent a Pig from doing it. It is just as much throwing the game as before; however it just means the obnoxious Jigsaw box playstyles require a more direct commitment to do. It does not prevent the Pig from tunneling the first surv they see with a trap on their head. There have been massive discussions about how this hurts regular Pig play, which have typically gotten quite heated so we won't be dredging that up again, but these nerfs affect every Pig regardless of play style, even if the overall time denied survivors from searching boxes is the same. Survivors have counterplay if they work as a team and delay gen pops in line with when survivors get trapped; just allowing 15 seconds for the survivor to get a head start on boxes is enough to prevent a head pop. This +30s change undeniably hurts the overall pressure provided by her Jigsaw boxes, and working around and accounting for that pressure was always what drew people to the Pig, similar to how setting up as Trapper and having it pay off down the road was immensely satisfying, even if the Killer isn't especially strong.
The denial of auras is more an annoyance than anything, it means that the highest level of Pig play will result in a need to memorize Pig box spawns, which is just an unnecessary irritation and makes Pig less accessible to newer players because of the random spawning algorithm. On indoor maps, because they are small maps you can even accidently run into a survivor doing the box cause of how they spawn, and effectively tunnel head pops just playing the game... Futhermore, it doesn't address the problematic play style at all, as the Pig's who want to tunnel or force head pops will run Hex: Face the Darkness, Ultimate weapon, and maybe even aura perks to simply chase down survivors they want to pop anyway. Again this is hurting the regular Pig play style more than the problem Pig play style.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CC5UG8QCRO2T/5u1ttouh.jpg
Thankyou! @C3Tooth it's perfect! Nothing but love BHVR, but the quote was too good to pass up on🤘🐽🤘
Our Proposed Solution
Instead of the nerfs proposed, we aim to target the issues Survivors are facing directly:
- An active Bear Trap can no longer trigger while the survivor is still searching Jigsaw Boxes. (While searching, the timer will stop at 99.99%, and letting go at this point will immediately kill the survivor)
- And either: -
- Screams do not interrupt survivors working on Jigsaw boxes. <- (Direct scream nerf for all scenarios, WE PREFER THIS)
- Letting go of a Jigsaw box will regress progress at a rate of 1 c/s <- (Better future-proofing for other types of interrupt, but screams still can cause a pop if on the last box and the timer is spent... maybe rare enough to not matter?)
These changes maintain the threat of a head trap and keeps the macro game of the Pig intact, where interrupting a survivor at select moments ensures sub-optimal choices from the survivors overall and buys pressure and time.
In the same breath, these changes eliminate the 2 most hated parts of the Pig's traps.
- That hopeless situation where it's impossible to get a head trap off even if you reach the final box.
- Being constantly reset on progress by a Pig forcing you to scream.
We want people to enjoy playing against the Pig, and our hope is that these changes keep the tenseness of the head trap, while also eliminating the nastier play styles. Any Pig trying to head pop you, can't just use a scream to interrupt your progress, they now have to actively push you off a box, which will pause the chase timer. We envision moments where people who don't know about the head trap being unable to pop while searching will be holding their breath hoping they can get their trap off in time, while those players who are aware will be holding their breath, hoping the Pig doesn't find them in that moment (similar to how being the last survivor committing to open the gate is a rush hoping the Killer doesn't happen to find you at that moment).
With this, we feel the Pig will be nicer to play, maintain her fear factor for survivors without being obnoxious, and be more engaging and fun for everyone.
Thanks for taking the time to read!
Signed the Society of Swine
@radiantHero23 @Nun_So_Vile @Vanishlord @UndeddJester @AbsolutGrndZer0 @BlackRose89
We will be monitoring this chat, so if you want to sign these changes too let us know in this thread or via PM!
Cheers!
Also I still don't think her chase power is all that great despise what few streamers and others on this thread says. She still suffers a lot from predropping and shift w'ing. Plus I say she even more addon dependent because her two chase add-ons still feel needed to make ambush feel good. Like why run RBT add-ons anymore since they got nerfed? Just might as well only run her only two good chase add-ons. You honestly better off playing pinhead since he also has a slowdown power and an actually decent chase power. Personally I just think they could do more to make her power feel better. I don't think the little buffs she got is nearly a enough especially to justify the trap nerfs.
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I think he going to be similar to singularity. A pretty decent killer but is really hard to use or stressful to play. Personally think majority of ppl will just stick to their mains and play him once in a blue moon.
I know I'm not super excited for him mostly because I think his power seems difficult to use and you need to learn knowledge how to bounce the orb off of things to get value out of his power. I just like more simple and easy to use killers like wraith, xeno, and legion while I stay away stressful and hard killers like nurse, Blight and Billy.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3662396#Comment_3662396
Indeed. Survivor mains perplex me. They often complain about killers. Remember how much "fun it was to go against billy"? and suddenly you are seeing people complaining about billy? Because they didn't like going against billy because he was "fun" they liked going against billy because he was bad.
I'd be curious to see a poll of strictly survivor mains voting who their favorite killers are to go against. I'd guess they'd all be the worst ones, while any one of them perceived as good is ranked really low.
I also would love to see such of a poll. I still think the only reason Billy was the most beloved killer among survivors was because he was almost always a guaranteed win for them. Since Billy before the rework was both really hard to play and sucked the only ppl who played him was ppl who didn't really care about winning so survivors had a easy win against Billy most the time. They either get a new Billy player who they could easily stomp or a "chill" Billy main who was more worried about curving than actually winning the game. Now Billy is much better and has more players playing him, they hate him because he isn't the easy win killer anymore. They actually have to play the game against Billies now instead sitting on a gen.