BlackRose89
BlackRose89
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That's not how the perk works if im not mistaken. It's like a BNP, it doesn't progress gens, it lowers the charges it takes to complete the gens. So gen blocking perks won't affect this perk and will still lower the max charges.
Now to add opinion on the buff. Personally, Im scared of this perk now esp since most of Killer's gen regression perks are getting nerfs. Like I really don't know if it's going to be OP or not and need to see what happens but Im still worried. Everyone knows survivors with BNP can finish gens fast esp against low-tier killers and the idea of a 60s-7 BNP perk is scary to me. On top of that, this can be combo with BNP toolboxs as well reducing the time to do gens even further. If it gets too meta it just going to force killers to run one perk to counter it. As I know ppl say "Well it leaves you broken" So what? Good survivors are fine being injured all match long. It be like playing against a plague or legion where you just force on doing gens fast and get out as fast as you can. One survivor being broken esp if they are good isnt going to be that big of a downside for the survivor team.Either way, we just wait and see but I do think this perk is really scary and could be super meta esp in SWF groups.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3714277#Comment_3714277
The last sentence here, is something very true. We do remember the negative moments more than the positive ones, it seems to be human nature and that's pretty sad, we have a tremendous amount of lovely people in the community and I am sure they far outweigh the bad actors, just that our minds automatically focus on the negative ones.
Unfortunately, the internet allows people to behave in a specific way without repercussions and those that are inclined, take advantage of that fact.
I'd love if we can remove toxicity from gaming in general, they are supposed to be fun after all. Am welcome to hearing all ideas that people have for making this happen or at least improving how things feel.
That may be true but I can say in my case there are very few pos moments in DBD. Over the course of my 1000+ hours of playing DBD I have had way more negative moments with players than positive ones. It got so bad that I had to turn off end-game chat since most of the time survivors would be rude to me after a hard match where I struggled a lot. I also had lots of moments in matches where ppl would BM me all the time. It's one of the major reasons I have stopped playing dbd bc it has affected my fun of the game a lot. Im stressed out even queueing since I never knew Im going to have a fun match or a miserable one. Unfortunately, I have no idea how you can improve this, I just think the community isn't as nice as others make it out to be.
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Eh not really, this last mid-chapter patch has left a bad taste in my mouth for the game.
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I get where you coming from. I also haven't played this game in around two months now. I was going to come back for the mid-chapter but this patch has been a nightmare and a complete failure. The two years of waiting for a twin rework ended up with a small QoL update that doesn't do anything to fix the things I hate the most about them(the slugging and Victor holding for 30+ secs), the bugs have left the game unplayable, and overall this mid chapter was boring. On top of all this MMR still is a mess IMO, my matches are always one-sided(survivors dying at 4 gens or completely stomping me and getting 4 man out), and as you said, there are just so many toxic players in this community.
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Yet another dead perk for the killer. I agree with others who said old UW was problematic but instead of trying to balance it, the dev decided to just kill the perk so no one would run it and no one would complain about it anymore. UW now is useless and is outshined by most of the other info perks. As much as I hate distortion, I still rather run aura reading perks over a perk that has a long cooldown and only works around a locker you open. RIP UW you never see a place in my builds ever again.
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Ever since they nerf Thana it's not worth running on any killer. You get way more value from other slowdown perks than Thana. There is no reason to ever run that perk even on Legion or Plague when you have so many other better perks that also work on legion.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3714217#Comment_3714217
Singularity has a low pick rate because he is one of the hardest killers in the game, not whatever that reasoning is... Also there are quite a few killers that get their power negated, for example if you have a competent team you will feel similar on trapper or Freddy...
Guess what those killers are played much either and some of the weakest in the game as well. So thanks for proving my point. ^^ Singu having low pick rate is because his hard and his power can be negated with just a button. I never said his pick rate was solo bc of the power thing, it's a combo of both. I like Singu believe it or not, I like him a lot more than Twins in fact but he suffers from the same thing as twins on top of being hard.
@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3714217#Comment_3714217
Singularity isn't played because he takes too much effort and is quite disorienting when switching through the cams. Singularity also is a 1v4 killer, who can easily leave a chase and reengage elsewhere forcing survivors to spend time getting EMPs slowing down the game. You know, as in intentionally making them disable his own power as a way to apply pressure on the entire team. Seems to me neither you nor Coffeecrashing want to play the 1v4 game. Nice strawman btw.
Twins isn't easy to balance and, apparently, to (re-)design. We just saw two versions that were busted and busted beyond belief. Maybe survivors can hold on to Victor for too long. I am able to accept that and not opposed to number tweaks as a quick fix, but that is just not what we are "discussing" on this 3rd page here. Instead there is almost exclusively whining that survivors do the only two things they can to not immediately lose the match and how that is toxic. The previous page looks much more like a discussion. Though the thread has feedback in the title so I guess that is enough.
It wasnt a strawman but whatever dude. As for EMP being a slowdown that's a joke. EMPs print themselves and are always up for survivors to get. Either way, I only mention Singu bc he has the same issue as Twins on top of being hard to play and requiring effort.
More on topic, I said many of times I get why holding Victor is considered "counterplay" but the issue here is that this counterplay leads to you playing a boring m1 killer for most of the match. I would be fine with it if Charlotte was more interesting to play. Victor is the real killer in this duo. I just don't want to be forced to play the boring part of a killer for most of the match, that is all. Again as you said I don't have to play them and I won't, that is why I wish I could refuse them bc they will NEVER be played. I only got them bc of the promise rework but it's whatever. Im happy for the 6 Twin mains, they can have their boring killer for all I care. I actually hopes they never waste time on this sorry killer anymore and move on to one who is actually fun to play.
Either way, Im done chatting with both of you on this subject. I have stated my opinion over and over again and honestly Im tired. In fact I not even playing this sorry game anymore right anyway since overwatch 2 and hades 2 are way more fun and better design. At least they work right now unlike DBD.
(also I have both of you on ignore, so dont bother with replying bc Im not reading anymore ^^ Have a wonderful day everyone)
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@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3714183#Comment_3714183
You are aware that sometimes you have to play m1-warrior like almost every other killer, right? Just take the 2nd injury and go from there. Maybe consider using Forced Penance, too. I don't believe you are unable to get a down due to this. Twins has a great 1v4. If you want to barrel down on survivors 1v1 pick a different killer.
You're right, most will just play a different killer, and that kinda the whole point of this. Since Twins is so unfun to play for most bc you are forced to play m1-warrior at the will of the survivors. The other killers really don't have this issue other than Singu and guess what no one plays him either. At the end of the day Twin will continue to be the least-play twin killer never getting above its 1% pick rate. For me I just wish I never got them since I don't enjoy them and as you said I rather play killers who are better than chase since you know that's the best part of dbd. If could I would trade this boring lame killer in for shards.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3713763#Comment_3713763
The issue is that for a large portion of the game, EVERY SINGLE TIME I want to use Victor, someone ends up taking Victor hostage. I can't believe that some people are ok with Victor's power being held hostage for 40+ seconds, 5 times in a row. How on earth is that acceptable game design?
I agree, I don't understand how ppl are ok for a killer powers be at the will of the survivors for that long of a time. Just makes the killer so boring to play and not feel good. Like I get it if you lose your power by a misplay or something but victor being held hostage is your reward for a successful hit.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3713634#Comment_3713634
Well if you always assume the worst of people that will just leave you miserable... But whatever your choice.
Funny you say that since you assume I assume the worst of people outside this game which I don't. In other games and outside of games I never assume the worst of people, it's just in this game I do bc I've seen patterns over the years I played this game. In no other game has I encountered as much toxic, entitlement, and sore winning/losing attitudes as I do in the dbd community. Everyone says and acts that this wonderful community is in gaming but in my eyes, this community is just as toxic as League of legends. I have only stuck around this long bc I really love the game once and love playing the killers, it just isn't even enough for me anymore. Sure there is good ppl in dbd, Im not saying there isnt but there are way more toxic/entitle ppl in dbd than wholesome good ppl. Anyway sorry for getting off topic, have a nice and blessed day. ^^
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3713496#Comment_3713496
I don't think the 4 more seconds are that big of a deal and the rest of the buffs make up for it completely. Aside from that I don't think their goal is to make the killer player miserable but to put themselves in a position where it is not worth it for the killer to hook them... Not everyone is trying to make your life miserable...
Honestly I completely disagree with you. I honestly believe a good amount of survivor mains main goal is to make a killer life miserable. Majority of my matches show me as much as most of my survivors are sore winners or losers. I have had more BM survivors than wholesome gg survivors over my 1000+ hours. There a reason I keep chat box turn off at all times and even now I stop playing because the game isn't fun and buggy and it's community as a whole just isn't pleasant be around. I find more nice players in games like overwatch 2 and hunt showdown than DBD nowadays.
Either way I do agree with coffee, devil and blueberry that the worst and most unfun part of twins is the fact thier power can just be denied 30+ secs multiple times throughout a match totaling up minutes of you being forced to be a boring powerless m1 killer. Honestly I wouldn't care as much if they just made Charlotte somewhat interesting to play, give her something cool to do when someone is giving her brother a piggy back ride. That's not the case though, you just become a m1 killer with no power whatsoever and alot killers just find that boring and not fun.
This why I'm confident in saying Twins will continue to be the lowest picked killer in the game not seeing past 1% on avg(not counting this patch since I'm sure their pick rate is artificial inflated do to the changes). Which is fine I guess just sucks I have a killer in my roster that never will be played and I regret ever getting them. Love to have the ability to trade them and their perks in for some shards so I can buy some sable cosmetics since those would get so much more use than twins, if I ever play this sorry game ever again.
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Well, today is the day where twins go back to being an unfun, boring killer for most ppl. Glad the 6 twin mains out there got what they wanted, I can't wait to see pick rates in a few months and see twins being at the bottom as always. Meanwhile, I going to be playing actually fun killers who power cant be taken from them at the will of the survivors for minutes. Enjoy your slugfest, no power having killer Twin mains. God I wish I never got this killer years ago…wish I could get my shards back since even most of twin perks are completely useless other than coup but Im not a fan of it either.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712622#Comment_3712622
This post is from the perspective of a killer player, and has nothing to do with how strong DS is.
Doesn't matter to me. It still has the same energy I seen in other posts. My first paragraph was off topic sure but you still have the same mind set and energy as others I seen in this sorry excuse of a community.
The second paragraph is more on topic where I was basically disagreeing with you. Survivor totally can use DS as a weapon and it's the most unfun and boring thing that can be done imo. As I said I don't like slugging and when someone tries focus me to slug them I hate it. It's one of many reasons (bugs and rubber banding are the others) I'm not playing DBD right now. I find the game boring, frustrating and I have grown to hate the community honestly. Sucks bc I used to enjoy DBD and have spent so much money on it and now I regret ever playing the game over 1000 hours.
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To me, this just seems like another case of Survivor mains trying to gaslight killers into thinking that a strong perk isn't strong or annoying to go against every single match. Don't get me wrong killers do this also but honestly I see it way more from survivors. Survivors did it with both versions of DH(old DH for distance and the DH after that), MFT, CoH, BU+FTP, etc. Whenever killers complain or have concerns about strong perks or a combo of perks, they are told that it's just a skill issue or that the perks aren't that strong and most of the time get no valve at all from the survivors. Take DH in its most OP state(for distance) for example I can't tell you how many times I have seen ppl say "Oh it isn't that strong, most of the time you just DH into a wall and you go down." and even with the 2nd version of DH which was still pretty strong, the come back was "Oh you just wait it out and its a bad perk, skill issue." The issue I have with survivor mains is they never want to admit that when they have a strong perk that isn't actually strong and just a bad perk. When the eruption was super OP I saw a lot of killers who said it was strong and probably needs a nerf and I saw killers who said it wasn't also but the point is I saw killers who knew it was strong something I rarely ever see from survivors. I know this an us vs them post and I fully admit that but guess what this whole game is us vs them, the sides are not equal in strength and never will be the natural of an asym game.
That said my only issue with DS being used a weapon is that it's unfun and boring esp when you not even trying to tunnel as the killer. Its a boring interaction. Im someone who HATES slugging, I never do it and I don't like being forced to even if it's in my favor. I want hooks, that's what I play for, and when Im forced to slug you deny me a hook. Also slugging has never won me a game. A lot of times when Im forced to slug and usually end up losing badly that match so I disagree with the ppl who say it always favors the killer, in some situations it doesnt, and im living proof of that. That is just my two cents on all this and you can take it or leave it I don't care, Im going back to play OW2 since at least it's not a buggy mess and isn't actually fun to play nowadays unlike DBD.
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@Aoltre said:
Being able to recall Victor while he is latched is WAY too strong. There is very little management on the killer's side because you almost always have Victor available. Being able to take Victor hostage was a big part of their counterplay and, assuming recall off a latched survivor is intentional, not having it available is severely crippling.
I used to like playing the Twins, but they feel less interesting and far too strong now.
Well lucky for you that been confirmed as a bug is going to be fixed. To bad some of us actually like the fact our power can't be held hostage for 30+ secs and be forced to play a powerless boring killer but it's whatever. I just wish they made Charlotte little more interesting play when you are forced to play her since I do understand having access to Victor is really strong. I just don't like the only counterplay is to make the person play a boring M1 killer with no power.
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Im glad they fix that since its one of the main reasons Im not even booting up the game right now. The other is the rubberbanding so I be waiting for that before I decide to log in and play for any amount of time.
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This is most likely my most hated patch yet. The game is unplayable for me where Im not even logging in till they fix the rubberbanding and everything. On top of that, the patch is just empty and boring. Twins is still just the same old twins with a few small QoL changes and the only thing I like about it is a bug. The perk changes overall are just boring and does nothing to change up the stale meta on either side. Overall I see no point in playing dbd right now and just waiting for 8th anniversary chapter.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
At least the second thread where someone posts a video of Otz about this.
And IMO it is fair. A Plague who got hit by DS was most likely tunneling anyway, good riddance that her power is gone then.
I do agree I don't mind DS affecting her power but I do think blast mine making her lose her power is little silly. It's not the biggest deal but I still think it silly she can lose her power for just kicking the wrong gen.
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I find all this so funny and ridiculous. One they left her in a bug state for 5 freaking years and never once told us she was bug. Then you have the whole situation where they said they couldn't have DS affect killer's powers and then did it for Plague.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708633#Comment_3708633
Other games don't have as many issues as DBD does.
False, digging into any Game's Bug Report section will reveal a myriad of issues. Often things the developer has never fixed. All it takes is getting familiar with a character and errors will show up. Bad designs that make people hate those characters are a thing for all games. ofc if you think all over game companies have a perfect track record and you are much more informed about flaws in Dead by Daylight, then bHVR will seem like villains of the highest caliber. But bHVR is pretty normal for a modern game developer.
As for the engine update, I don't know if you say is true or not. I just know I've seen a lot of the bugs ppl been reporting nonstop in my games as well and the photosensitivity stuff along with the other bugs has kept me playing this week. Either way, feel free to give them the benefit of the doubt but I've been around long enough that Im tired of making excuses for their poor management of this game and their programming of it.
Its not about giving bHVR the benefit of the doubt, its about being reasonable in the things I blame them for.
I cant blame them for Engine upgrades as those are ALWAYS impossible to predict, even the company that MAKES the damn engine had problems upgrading their own game FORTNITE to the new version. Its simply just unreasonable to give bHVR hell for that. You could have researched Unreal Engine upgrades, but you didn't.
One I never said other video games companies have a perfect track record. You just putting words in my mouth at that point. I said other games companies are better at finding and fixing bugs in a timely manner. I never said everyone but BHVR has a perfect track record.
As for benefit of the doubt I was referring to the twins rework more than anything. The engine upgrade honestly is whatever at this point to me. I'm not even that mad about that, I just think the state of the game for most people is bad thanks to that update. Most of my frustration here is how slow it takes BHVR to act on things and fix things. Also the fact at times they seem they don't fully think things out like the twins update. I don't care what you or others say but I think the fact that rework even made it to a PTB to begin with is sad and ridiculous. It really shows that the devs have no clue when it comes to actual playing thier own game and don't have a team to test said changes.
Either way I'm ending this discussion here. You never going to change my mind and I'm never going to change yours. So let's just agree to disagree and move on with our lives. Have a blessed day.
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His point tho is that this "fix" doesn't really do anything to higher skill plauge players. They already know how to avoid a lot of stuns in the game and this isn't going to affect them at all. What it does do is affect newer players as he said. They took the time to fix this minor bug that honestly didn't really need fixing instead of looking at her more problematic add-ons like her two red ones. Also, I find it more dumb that she was left in a bugged state for FIVE YEARS without anyone knowing. That to me is the big takeaway from this. Makes me wonder what other killers might be technical bug right now
Also remember the post few weeks ago about how devs couldnt make DS affect killers power meanwhile this happens…Yeah I think its silly that they said "Well we can't have DS affect Blight or Nurse's powers" while also making it affect Plauges power a patch later. XD
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708494#Comment_3708494
I love it that some ppl try to cover the devs on the twin rework.
I dont think its covering for bHVR at all, just because I am realistic and don't give them #########. I don't believe having a harsh tone with the people I want to make the game I play better is going to get me better results than if I was offensive and distraught. bHVR will fix those issues as they should and that is fine with me.
Pretty much everyone knew the second they read the dev blog about the rework that it was going to make twins broken and wasn't going to be healthy for the game.
Idd like for you to demonstrate and prove this claim. Cause I did not see such unity in the community.
Also this week the game has been pretty much in hell thanks to the engine update, so many bugs thanks to that. To me, it seems they didn't even test these updates enough before pushing them into live servers. They shouldn't be limiting their testing to just a week-long ptb, they should always be looking for bugs in every update and try to fix them before they go live. This is why games have QA teams so they can heavily test the game and find bugs.
That isnt how engine updates work, most likely its very system specific, for instance my system has been working fine with this update, while others has not worked at all. The only way bHVR could Q/A test for that is if they bought every computer part in existence, which isn't feasible.
Well Im different, I expect more from a company that I pay money to. I don't think Im being hush, Im just criticizing their work and their work on the twin's rework was a complete failure. Other games don't have as many issues as DBD does. Other companies that do character rework put out something of quality(exp OW2's rework of Sombra). Meanwhile, a lot of dbd reworks are hit and miss, It took them two reworks to make Sadoko semi-good and fair(she still has issues but is in a better place now), SM is still a mess despises being reworked, the Freddy rework from years ago has left him in a boring weak state now. Twins isn't the first time they failed at a rework, they have a long history of messing up killers' reworks. Also it Dbd takes years to fix bugs while other companies don't. Did you know that Plage has been bugged since she was released and just now was fixed? The bug was with her red power. Before it was a bug where only pallet stuns would make her lose her power but now it is fixed, any stun(excluding Flashlight Saves and wiggle-out stuns) will make her lose her power. She has been bugged for FIVE YEARS without any of us knowing. How is that ok for any game dev to do? To leave a character bugged for that long?
Ref video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdwrtAqtEfA&t=366sAs for the engine update, I don't know if you say is true or not. I just know I've seen a lot of the bugs ppl been reporting nonstop in my games as well and the photosensitivity stuff along with the other bugs has kept me playing this week. Either way, feel free to give them the benefit of the doubt but I've been around long enough that Im tired of making excuses for their poor management of this game and their programming of it. I expect a lot more from them as game devs and owners of a pretty popular game. They are not some small indie company, they are a multi-million company. I still respect their work and prise them on the things they do right like the Billy rework and the anit camp and anit 3 gen mechs but I also will criticize them on mess ups and the Twins rework was a pretty big mess up in my eyes.
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@Emeal said:
So you want bHVR to sabotage one of their main methods of gaining cash in hopes that spending an extra 3 months will fix all issues. And if that isnt possible, then what? they have lost money and gained some bug fixes. Ill remind you said bug fixes might become unstuck as this game is ever evolving and nothing is stuck in stone. I think this is a terrible idea because its a shot at fate which isnt a path that is secure.
The recent patch is an upgrade in engine and that never comes easy and the reason they canned all the twins update was because the backlash was great to it, so they canned most of it. You may not see good things in that, but it is, its called listening to feedback.
This latest patch may have failed and some work was lost, but it failed successfully and the process is still ongoing.I love it that some ppl try to cover the devs on the twin rework by saying that it's a good thing they listen to feedback and revert the changes. Here's the thing, that so-called rework should never have left the planning room, it was that bad. They should have seen how big of a problem those changes were going to make. Pretty much everyone knew the second they read the dev blog about the rework that it was going to make twins broken and wasn't going to be healthy for the game. If most of your community could see the major issues just from a dev blog then why didn't the devs themselves see it during the planning stages? Sure it's a good thing they did revert it and everything BUT it isn't a good thing that they were so short-sighted that they didn't catch the issues the rework was going to make. You didn't need a PTB to test that.
Also this week the game has been pretty much in hell thanks to the engine update, so many bugs thanks to that. To me, it seems they didn't even test these updates enough before pushing them into live servers. They shouldn't be limiting their testing to just a week-long ptb, they should always be looking for bugs in every update and try to fix them before they go live. This is why games have QA teams so they can heavily test the game and find bugs.
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I just don't like running end-game perks personality. The only ones I would run but on a few select killers is No Way Out and sometimes Noed but that's about it. I honestly find end-game builds do badly in my hands and rather focus on the early to mid-game. Its a ok perk tho, not the worst by far. It's just not a perk I like running.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707959#Comment_3707959
Quite a lot stronger now. And since a significant amount of players optimise the fun out of everything I would also assume a lot of them will now play twins quite a bit more. By playstyle alone we can assume that, people proxy camp instead of taking chases because it tends ensure a kill more likely than taking chases and so on.
I don't know if they are that much stronger than before, I feel that hard to tell since they are bug right now with the recall. If the recall wasn't a bug then I would agree that they are quite stronger but we see after the bug is fixed. Not everyone optimizes the fun out of everything. I think only the ppl at the very top do that and ppl like myself who are more in the middle prioritize fun over winning all the time.
I know its off topic but one of my pet peeves about DBD as a whole is its matchmaking system. I honestly don't play as much anymore because my matches are so one-sided and not fun. Whenever I play this game 90% of my matches either go one of two ways. They either me stomping the survivors, killing everyone around 3 or 4 gens, or the survivors steamroll me where I may get 2 hooks at most and they out of the exit gate before I can even kill anyone. Rarely I get a fun and close match. I hate one-sided matches in games and I don't play dbd anymore as much because of this fact. I have been getting way better matches in games like OW2, so that is where I spend most of my time.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707894#Comment_3707894
I guess the pick rate will jump up quite a bit when they realise how strong the twins currently are... But I agree that the twins don't really follow the promised concept of two parts working together, it is more like the gremlin taking everyone out and Charlotte playing garbage woman and picking them up. But then again I don't really know how to make that into a thing...
I mean Twin has always been strong. Sure they feel a little better now thanks to a faster swapping but that still doesn't change the fact that half of the killer is super boring and unfun to play. You can have a killer who is s tier but if they are not fun to play a lot of ppl will not play them outside the ones who only care about winning and that's it. As you said I have no idea how they could make Charlotte more fun to play but that is not really my job, that's the job of the devs to figure that out. My job is to say what I don't like about the killer and give my feedback. That's what Im doing, Im not even saying keep the recall since I know that makes them a little too strong but I do want the devs to know that no one likes their power being held hostage by survivors for long periods of time. Twins aren't the only killer with this issue as well. Singu has a similar issue where he is super strong but thanks to EMPs it feels like he has no power most of the time and is reduced to being a m1 killer.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707482#Comment_3707482
Thats quite a bit of speculation... Also a weird thing to call him egoistic when he always tries to point out when something is busted for ordinary players.
Fair, but then we would need a full power rework, again... And I don't think that will be the top priority as of right now.
Honestly, I'm done talking about Hens, at the end of the day I don't like the guy or his content and I do think he doesn't care about average players. That end of that.
I don't care if it is or isn't a top priority right now. Im just giving the devs my feedback about why I hate twins. The main problem when playing them is the fact Charlotte is the borest part of the killer and you are forced to play her for 30 seconds every time you injure someone and they hold onto Victor. Im not alone in this thought either since I have seen plenty of ppl who are saying the same thing where they don't like the feeling of their power being held hostage by the survivors. This why I think Twin will never have a higher than 1% on average for pick rate. I am willing to bet after a few months their numbers will be back at 1%(I imagine their pick rate is above 1% right now bc of the update but that will fall back down after the next chapter). Another part of them I hate is the slugging part bc I hate slugging as killer. I rarely do it on any other killer, I rather get my hook than just leave someone on the ground. As I said I know twin is strong but that doesn't change the fact they boring as hell to play since most of the time you are forced to play a m1 killer and you have to slug a lot. The QoL changes did not change that esp since the 10s recall is a bug and isn't considered as part of those changes.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707144#Comment_3707144
Comp player = someone who hosts tournaments? Excuse me xD so the guy who moderates a football match is a football player? ^^
I don't think he has a comp mindset at all... He seems to mostly play chill... It just seems like that because he is good at the game.
But even if he was, that would speak even more towards the point of twins being too strong right now... Because when even comp players cannot figure out what to do against a killer that can slug the entire team without much effort then what are 4 solos or pub players in general supposed to do?
Or are you seriously telling me that what he did in those games on his stream was so hard to achieve that only someone with 10k hours could have done it?
I said he might as well be considered a comp player, I didn't say he was. He is in deep enough and good enough to be a comp player and that was my point. A lot of his opinions and ideas come from a person who is at the top of MMR and those players imo don't think about the average player's experience. They only care about the experience at their level and are the ones who will say "skill issue" if someone isn't having fun or struggling in the game. At least that is my experience with players like Hens, he doesn't care about someone like myself, an avg killer main who has to deal with the ######### MMR system putting me again survivors who are clearly out of my skill range.
Either way back on topic, I never said Twins was weak. In fact, I know they are super strong but Im opinion it isn't coming from a point of strength, it's coming from a point of fun. To me, a killer whose power can be held hostage for 30 seconds and left as a boring m1 isn't fun and just sucks. I said in this thread I get why the 30s cooldown is there and if they can't lower it then that's fine. They could then at least figure a way to make charlotte more interesting to play when she doesn't have access to her power thanks to a survivor holding onto Victor.
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I find it crazy that some ppl find it fun to have their power at the will of someone else. Im sorry but having your power held hostage is never fun and will always be the main reason why Twin will stay as the lowest-picked killer in the game. Like I don't even mind the 30-second cooldown if they just give something to Charlotte doing that downtime to make her fun to play. Being forced into just being a powerless M1 killer is not fun for most of the community(unless you are a survivor main then you love it bc it's easy mode for you). Like has Singu not shown that ppl don't like it when their power is in the hands of the survivors most of the match? There is a reason why killers like Wesker are way more popular and that is because he is more fun to play since your power is always in your hands and not in the hands of the survivors.
It's whatever I guess, at the end of the day Twin just going always be a strong but also boring ass killer who will always be at the bottom of the pick rate. I know I never going to pick them now and just stay on the actually fun killers. Twin main enjoy your dumb boring killer and enjoy slugging ppl all match long.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3706916#Comment_3706916
OK, who mentioned comp DBD? Is Hens suddenly a comp player or is he a streamer and content creator?
Even if Victor gets kicked after the down you have him back in no time and can just go right back there and attack the one healing the slug.
Tbh Hens might as well be a comp player or at least be semi consider as one since major of his content as of late been hosting comp tournaments. Just passed two weekend he host a Spring Invitational Tournament. He may not play comp himself but he does heavy surround himself in comp and has a comp mindset. Just saying tho.
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@solarjin1 said:
Just imagine if this wasn't a bug tho. The amount of people rushing to defend the fax that victor could be recall quickly is insane. Telling u it possible to reset vs a 150 speed killer who can immediately be on the map lol no. People desperation to maintain power is sickening. It like telling someone ftp/buckle up, old eruption, and background player was fair..... I'm really disappointed
I mean most ppl just don't like the idea of their power being in full control of the other side. Holding Victor hostage is about like your all your pods getting deleted with one EMP on singu. As I said in my post above I understand the reasoning for Victor having a 30-second cooldown if held by a survivor but it is also one of the most unfun parts of the killer bc you are then forced to play a boring m1 killer with no power. Im not saying leaving the recall at 10secs but they could do something that makes Charlotte a little more exciting or interesting to play when she doesn't have her brother. Personality Im not even going to touch Twins bc I don't like my power being in the hands of survivors. It is the same reason I don't like playing singu. I just stay with Wesker, Xeno Wraith, ect.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3706768#Comment_3706768
Yeah, same, KEKW. Literally played 2 matches, was kinda glad to play them now, because i used to hate play Twins, but now they are fun. Then read Mandy's reply and was thinking "
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3706834#Comment_3706834
I probably won't even with 20 sec. Unless they won't come up with something completely new, what will make Charlotte fun in these 20-30 seconds.
I haven't even got to play them. After I saw a few ppl play them it actually made me excited to try them but now I don't even want to touch them after I found out about all this. Just another boring unfun killer on my list. I kinda wish I never got them a few years ago. Welp back to Wesker, Sadoko, Legion and Xeno I guess.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3706830#Comment_3706830
Well as Hens for example described it holding Victor hostage is basically the counterplay to them, because everything else is just the killer player missing and with that super low recall time you can just 4 men slug way too easy... He injures them faster than they can heal and there is no reason for him to pick up.
I mean sure losing your power for that long sucks, but what are the survivors supposed to do otherwise? Run to the opposite side of the map and jump into a locker?
Like I understand why the 30 seconds is there but there got to be something they could do to Charlotte feel better to play when you are force to play as her. She is just so boring to play for those 30 seconds where she doesn't have power. The issue is that Charlotte is the most boring and weakest part of the killer and being forced to play as her just because survivors don't want to crush Victor sucks. On top of all that you still heavy encourage to slug and that is not fun for either side. At the end of the day, I still think Twins is a boring killer to play just like SM bc you have a large amount of time where you are just an M1 killer. Sure they are super strong but that doesn't make up the fact they are so boring to play. To me, that is the real reason no one plays them.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3706735#Comment_3706735
Do you WANT the Killer to be broken?
Victor CANNOT be out all the time.
No, I just don't want a killer whose power can be held hostage 30s or more. Like at the end of the day I honestly don't care, I just wont to play Twins who are boring killers bc most of the time you force to play an M1 killer at the will of the survivor. If Charlotte wasn't so boring to play then I wouldn't care if victor could be held for 30s but that's not the case. She still is as boring as she was before. If I wanted to play a boring m1 killer then I play SM.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3706803#Comment_3706803
Dang yeah, back to having their power taken hostage. I was giving good praise on the Twins changes too. I guess I take that all back. Twins are still going to be just as unpopular to play as they were before now.
Agreed!
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3706768#Comment_3706768
Wait wait, did Mandy actually confirm that being able to recall Victor early is a bug? If that’s actually confirmed then Twins is back in the boring dumpster. That was the main thing actually making people enjoy playing her now as taking Victor hostage makes them ultra boring.
That actually kills any interest I had in Twins now if that is actually a bug and being reverted.
@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
I think we need to give devs credit where credit is due.
Twins changes are pretty cool and also quite a big buff. But most importantly than just buff, they feel much better to play and that's big deal.
I think I will be playing Twins more thanks to this update. They feel less clunky, they feel faster, less cooldowns, less limitations. Very good!
On the last page, she confirms that recalling Victor after 10s from latching onto a survivor is a bug and will be fixed in the next hotfix patch. This means it will go back to being a 30sec if the survivor decides to hold him hostage.
I agree the whole reason I wanted to try this version of twins was bc I could recall victor after a hit on a healthy survivor. I never liked being powerless for 30 seconds just bc the survivor refused to crush him off their back. So now I wouldn't touch this killer ever.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3706684#Comment_3706684
It’s a tough fix. The core problem is that there’s zero fun on charlotte, she does nothing. She’s an m1 with no power. So the more you limit Victor chain hitting the more the player is forced to walk around as an m1 with no power, boring, plus weak, but more importantly boring. People want to limit Victor and I get it, but the more we do that the more we need to give some additional fun factor to charlotte. Maybe charlotte needs an ability of her own as well.
Yeah, I agree. The main reason I never play Twins is bc I hated then I was forced to play Charlotte whenever I latched Victor on a survivor. She is just boring to play and the feeling of the true fun of your power being held for 30 seconds by a survivor. I wanted to play this version of Twins because you call recall Victor off a survivor but Mandy says that a bug so I really don't want to play them now.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3706006#Comment_3706006
That's actually a bug, hopeful of a fix in an upcoming hotfix
Also if Victor is not triggering the antifacecamp feature that might also be a bug, as I think he's supposed to.
Welp if that's a bug then I won't be playing twins after all. I was thinking about playing them bc I didn't like the whole hold Victor hostage for 30secs. I continue to pretend this killer never existed and play other killers whose power can't be held hostage by survivors. Thanks for letting me know before I waste my time on this sorry excuse of a killer. To the twin mains have fun with your killer whose power can be denied for 30s just bc the survivor can walk around with your boy on thier back.
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@Xernoton said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but to my knowledge the Knight has not received a single nerf. He was buffed and then left alone. Also, most of his counterplay comes from the poorly coded AI of his guards, so there is not a lot of room to play around his power.
I agree, that he is not the best but he also is nowhere near the worst killer in the game. It's sad how addon dependent he is and that his power to this day never once worked without issues.
I say he is the new Twins. He is not the worst killer and can be strong but he suffers from clunky gameplay and bugs. You're right tho knight hasnt gotten any nerfs as far as I know. I just find him unfun to play bc of the bad AI and just the overall clunky feel of his kit.
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That great to hear. I figure the QoL change they kept would make them feel little better. It just sucks it took two years and a failed reowrk to get these changes. I may try them but honestly I never really liked twins. They dont have any skins I like and I dont really like their designs or playstyle. I still try them out tho since there is nothing else to do in the game right now….
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3705175#Comment_3705175
Respectfully, the Devs being willing to revert a ######### change doesn't excuse them wasting TWO YEARS on a change it took us five minutes to figure out was terrible.
Amen! I 2nd this comment.
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Since Chucky came out. The game just isn't fun right now for me. Im bored playing most of the killers I used to like playing(Legion, Wraith, Xeno) and matches just aren't fun. Even the Unknown didnt make me want to play the game bc their power isnt fun to me. I hate lob projectiles. Then you have this mid-chapter that is a huge disappointment in terms of content. Unless the 8th anny chapter has something amazing in it I do think I be playing that much.
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@ExcelSword said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3705249#Comment_3705249
I think the likely case is they may not have meant to take 2 years to update Twins, but since they had a low playmate they were not considered a high priority and probably got rescheduled over and over as other things came through the pipeline.
The rework did not feel like it took 2 years to complete. The only new assets were an animation for Victor latching onto downed survivors, and Victor glowing when he is vulnerable to kicks.
The rework consisted of adding haste when a condition is met for Charlotte (downing a surv with Victor or lockers) and removing the latched state when attacking healthy survivors and having it trigger an injury. None of these things would have taken months to program, in my opinion.
If the patch at least keeps the cooldown reduction to the 3 seconds on PTB for Victor, I will be satisfied, they have not actually stated if Victor is keeping the 5 second attack cooldown or not on successful attacks. I think Victor being able to move as fast on the PTB when injuring is a bug, because otherwise he would be impossible to kick, but having 4.5 secondary to down and swap vs 8 seconds would feel so nice.
Don't get me wrong Im happy for Twins mains, they finally got the QoL changes they wanted after years of waiting. That said I am still greatly disappointed as a non-twin player. This chapter has nothing exciting for most of the other player base. As you said Twins have a low playrate and these QoL changes imo isnt going to change that. That's fine but most of the other player base is getting little to nothing in this mid-chapter thanks to the failure that was the Twin rework.
As I said before the rework never should have left the drawing room to begin with, if they just say "Yeah we can't really think of a better way to rework twins, so let's just give them some QoL updates and go work on something else to put in this mid-chapter." Then this chapter would be so much better. We could have gotten something for Singu(remember at one point they had plans to change Hux but that roadmap was thrown out), an addon pass for Saroko or anything else on top of the QoL changes Twins. Only if they realized a little earlier that the rework was going to be a really bad idea and planned something else for this sad excuse of a mid-chapter patch.
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3705249#Comment_3705249
That still doesn't answer the question of how anyone on the team didn't even think about how bad and broken that rework was going to be
so close to answer it yourself. It’s a team. Just because they decided to try it on PTB doesn’t mean everyone agreed it’s the best solution.
As to asking streamers/community, sure, but I still prefer DbD doesn’t go down that route. Most of the big streamers are already promoting very unhealthy and toxic playstyles but that’s just my point of view.
I also never said you shouldn’t voice your opinion. Just calling the general community out on being hypocritical. Constructive feedback is good and necessary.
You wouldn't praise a child for failing on a report just bc they admitted they failed, would you?Uuuhm. Either I do not understand you bc of language barrier or I just do not agree with you on this generally?? That depends HEAVILY on the circumstances?!
[…] and also improve the games' health. Updating the store and the engine is not doing that.Also I am disagreeing here again… updating the engine should definitely improve the games health in the long run (while also probably bring plenty of bugs with this update..). And the store also needed some work and at least that rework was done well..
I mostly will just touch on the streamer bit. Like it or not players like Otz, Hens, Tofu, and others are more knowledgeable about the game than most of the community. They play this game for a living and I think their feedback weighs a little heavier than someone who may only have a few hundred hours. On top of that I wasn't saying just streamers, they could invite well-known players in from this forum. The point is they could seek help inside their own community and test these changes before the PTB. The problem with the PTB is that they leave themselves no room to correct mistakes. They have 3 weeks to gather feedback and make corrections based on that feedback. I they could had save so much time if they just asked ppl what they thought about the twin rework way before they pushed it into the PTB. They could even go down the route of what they did with OoO where they proved proof of concept to the community and asked our opinion based on the idea they proved.
As for the other stuff Im just saying ppl shouldn't be so quick to forgive or prise the devs for the Twins rework. At the end of the day, it was a failure and a failure that could have been caught way before the PTB. Just because they didn't push rework thought doesn't change the fact that this mid-chapter suffered a lot because of how bad that said rework was. Yeah, we have a new engine but the game is still going to be in the same state as it is now after the patch tomorrow. I also believe it when I see it if the engine update fixes all the bugs this game has.
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3705211#Comment_3705211
eh. Plenty of people are asking for fewer content updates. I didn’t accuse you personally of such but don’t pretend no one is doing this just because you don’t.
And sure, dev time got ‚wasted‘ on the twins rework. But then again, you also do not know how much dev time gets ‚wasted‘ on features being worked on that never make it to PTB to begin with. We know for example they have been working on anti-Camp features for years until they finally got to the anti-Face camp bar. And there was the ‚Early game collapse‘ - and those are just the ones they mentioned. Same with killer power concepts for flying or wall crawling. This doesn’t mean they would have prioritized whatever you deem to be worthy of their time if they hadn’t done what they were actually doing.
Indeed, we don't know how long the twin rework took but we do know they made us wait TWO years for it with little to no info about it leading up to it. That still doesn't answer the question of how anyone on the team didn't even think about how bad and broken that rework was going to be. It shouldn't had taken a PTB to show them how broke the changes they had plan and they should had reach out to twin mains doing the development to ask for options and ideas. A bunch of pvp game devs reach out and ask a select few to test and give feedback before making anything public. For example in OW2 when they were reworking Sombra doing the progress they invited streamers and other well-known OW players to test a few things under an NDA and give feedback. Since they did this the Sombra rework was a success since they filtered out the bad ideas thanks to that feedback and deliver a rework that was pretty damn good.
Im sorry if Im being hush on the devs I do respect them and the work they do but I want them to do better since I do pay a lot of money on skins, dlc, and on game in general. I expect high quality from a live service game that I spend money on and Im not going to settle on the fact they listen to feedback and take back changes that shouldn't have been done in the first place. You wouldn't praise a child for failing on a report just bc they admitted they failed, would you? That is devs right now, they fail on a rework and they should not be prise or celebrated for that just because they didn't go thought with said rework.
You can be happy all you want for this update but doesn't mean I have to be. Im honestly really disappointed about this mid-chapter and Im going to voice my disappointment. Also, I didn't take it personally, I just never saw anyone say they wanted less content. The only thing I see ppl say is they wish the devs would slow down on new killers to work on the ones they have now and also improve the games' health. Updating the store and the engine is not doing that.
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@Mooks said:
Big store update and Unreal Engine upgrade to version 5. Reverting the unhealthy twins changes even though it had resources put into because of community feedback.
And people call this update disappointing while also demanding less content updates.
No one is asking for fewer content updates, most of us want the content to pretend to fix issues the game has like buffing/reworking/QoL to low-tier killers like Freddy and Myres, new content for survivors like new items and mechanics, and game health updates.
The thing about the Twin rework is sure it's great they listen to feedback and didn't push that sorry excuse of a rework to live but that rework shouldn't have even made it to a ptb to begin with. Everyone knew that rework was bad even before they played it on the ptb by reading the dev blog that talked about it. I didn't see a single person who was hopeful for that twin rework going into the ptb and it pretty much played out the way most ppl thought it was going to play out. So the question is if so many could see the issues before they even played the rework then why didn't the devs see it? How did that rework even make it out of the planning stages when it was pretty clear it was going to fail to begin with? Thanks to the dev's shortsightedness, we are now left with an empty mid-chapter patch and dev time that can never be gotten back on a failed rework. Dev time that could been used better by reworking Freddy, giving addon passes to killers with over half of their add-ons being super weak or useless(PH, Freddy, and Sadoko), buffs/reworks to perks on both sides that are pretty useless, etc.
People are not asking for less content updates they asking for more meaningful updates that actually will help the game and make it more exciting to play. All this update is giving us is a small QoL update to twins that could been done years ago, a map update no one really likes, a store update that kinda cool, and an engine update. The good stuff in this update(store and engine updates) is nice but it isn't content and isn't going to make ppl want to play the game if they already burn out and want something new.
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@radiantHero23 said:
Fun killer, that suffered from the sentiment, that "all killers start strong but get nerfed when they come out." I think many people have stopped enjoying Xeno after the original tail nerf. Not saying, that the cooldown change wasnt necessary. On top of that, the hitbox had numerous bugs and had to be fixed at least 3 times.
As people already pointed out:
Cons:
- shift w + predrop is boring to play against (seemingly not boring to play as, as so many people do it despite the killer in play not having a strong chasing power)
- smart usage of turrets can lead to playing without a power, which feels awful.
- Hitbox of tail and animation still dont aling in many cases, leading to questionable looking hits and misses. (I know why it didnt hit. Doesnt make it less frustrating though)
- Tail is similar to other powers
Pros:
- Cool animations and sound design
- Cool skins
- Amazing and iconic license
- Fun addons
- Great perk synergy
- Strong antiloop
- the tunnels
I played Xeno a lot and wanted my next P100 project to be Xeno when it came out. Sadly, due to the mentioned problems, the killer can feel very frustrating at times, which is why my Jill is now getting leveled.
I still play Xeno once or twice a session.
As a dedicated xeno main I whole hearted agree with Hero. I feel the same as they do and was going to write pretty much the same thing. I know the tail bugs shortly after release almost made me give up on her. If I wasn't a HUGE Alien fan I probably wouldn't be playing her.
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It's one of the most boring and biggest letdowns of a patch I've seen in a long time. The main thing for tomorrow's patch was supposed to be the Twins rework but since they messed it up so badly that they had to throw 90% of the changes they made out of the window the big twin rework has been reduced to a small QoL change. If they just did the QoL to begin with we could had so many other changes like a QoL for Hux(remember the roadmap that had changes for Singu… I wish we had that timeline instead right now), an addon pass for Sadoko, or more perk changes.
The point is because of the huge mess up on the twins this patch has been left in such a disappointing state. Nothing exciting is in it for either side and honestly, I don't see any reason to log in tomorrow to play it bc there is nothing new to test out or play. That is not to mention the huge amount of bugs that were in the PTB and most likely will make it to live like female vaults being messed up once again(like how did that happen again?). Anyway, Im pretty much checked out of dbd right now till the 8th anniversary which I pray they have something exciting for or I will be only playing Eden Ring DLC and FF14 Dawntail in June and July.
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@IlessThenThreeDevour said:
ultimate game sense was both overtuned and just a crutch for people who dont have simple tracking ability, never felt the need to run it in my games and I did just fine, at best I might use lethal pursuer just so I can pinpoint survivor spawn rotation but it only worked once per match unless u brought additional aura perks
I dont know why people have such difficulty to locate survivors, most players even with stealth cosmetics can be seen cross map majority of the times
just search common areas and its gg
I mean good for you! Not everyone is you tho and everyone has different ranges of skills they can achieve in this game and other games. If your reasoning to nerf a perk no less make the perk useless is that bc it's a crutch perk then that is just silly in my opinion. Any useful perk on either side can be considered a "crutch" perk. I just name killers to avoid ppl saying making an us vs them post but NOED, SBFL, any gen regression perk, bamboozle, etc all could be considered crutch perks bc they help you in different ways. Do you need these perks? No, but they do help just like how UW and other info perks help with finding ppl.
Here is a question for you since you say you do not need a crutch like UW. Do you play perkless then? If you don't then I think you little bit of a hypocrite. I am sure you seek help in other perks on your killer builds and by your statement, those can be considered as crutch since Im sure someone out there doesn't need those perks to win.
I'm not saying UW didn't need a nerf, I think it was overturned. It was just a tool just like any other perk in the game to help the player out which is what perks are for. Now this perk was nerfed to the ground and isnt really that useful and that's my issue with it. I don't like useless perks on either side and I hate it even more when a great perk gets a nerf that just completely makes it useless.
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
Knight can wait his turn. There's killers who are far more deserving of some attention.
Sure as long those other killers don't end up like the failure that was the Twins rework where the devs wasted two years only to fail so hard that they had to throw all the changes away and settle for some small QoL changes that could have been do years ago. Personally, I do not want to wait two years for a killer I don't care about gets a failed rework while killers I do like have to wait on the sidelines. Honestly, BHVR needs to cut back on new killers for one year, and look at the killers they have now. We have a few that all need some love and attention.