BlackRose89
BlackRose89
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She been the most hated killer even before her PTB came out. Her 3 gen play style only made it 10x wrost and now the killer has the worst reputation in the game. I honestly believe there nothing the devs can do to fix it either. People will always hate SM because she wasn't the scary cyborg predator they thought she was from the teasers.
Even in this thread you see these same people complaining about her visual design and lore. One thing, there nothing in DBD that is scary. Never once I looked at Deathslinger, Clown, Trapper, Wraith, Legion, or Doctor and think man these people are scary. As for lore I guess these people just wanted yet another female killer who turned out to be another victim. Look at all the other female killers lore and stories. Every single one can be reduced to being in the victim category. SM is a killer because she enjoys killing not because she was some victim to some tragic event that lead to her needing to kill for revenge or to save her life.
Now I agree her gameplay isn't the best but it's not as bad as it was when she was released. People are allowed to hate her, I just think its dumb to DC against a killer who isn't even that bad now gameplay wise. Btw I hate Billy(Playing him and going against him) but you don't see me DCing or wishing he was deleted from the game.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650543#Comment_3650543
I mean who cares about how she looks or what is her lore. Most people, me included don't even read the lore.
People hates her gameplay. If that changes, her reputation will be fixed. Ths worked for Legion.
You may not care but I have seen A LOT of ppl complain about her looks, lore, and have a chip of their shoulder because they thought she was going to be some cyborg predator killer.
That said I believe when I see it. I just don't think any amount of rework will redeem this killer in ppl eyes and honestly I don't want them to even try. As others have said I rather them spend the little time and responses they have updating and reworking killers who are really in need like Mikey and Freddy. I say those two are in more need of updates and reworks than SM.
The only way they can truly fix SM rep is to do a complete rework and pretty much make a whole new killer and at that point she won't even be SM anymore, she be a whole new killer and that will only make the SM mains upset like PixelBush.
I just add this one last thing, even if you rework something doesn't mean survivors will try to learn the counter play. Look at Sadoko, they just made condemn super easy to counter in her newest rework and most survivors still aren't even trying to learn her power since she been reworked so many times.
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@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650972#Comment_3650972
My experience is subjective but I consider myself an average player, not good and not bad. When I switch from survivor to killer it's very notable how much easier the game feels. I can get 4ks with ease and it doesn't even feel fair. I actually would enjoy playing killer more if it had some challenge, but it feels unfair and like I'm bullying the survivors by having so much of an advantage that I don't find it enjoyable. I can understand why a lot of killers let survivors escape out of pity, and that must have some effect on the overall kill rates.
It's kind of disappointing because I think DBD is an amazing game, but the balance feels off.
Once again all of this is your experience and doesn't represent everyone else experience. For example I keep track of stats as killer as well since the game doesn't do it for me and I enjoy looking at my own stats. I can tell you right now my games are not as easy as you says yours are. On any given night I avg around 2 kills a night and I'm playing to win in every match. I don't usually show mercy or pity to anyone I come across. I treat everyone the same. Now once in a while I get a super easy match where I get a 4k easily but it's definitely not every single match like you are implying. On the flip side I have had nights where I don't even get a kill at all.
As you see I say our experiences are quite different. Now let's say they decided to use my data to balance the game. Then that would most likely lead to killer buffs and survivor nerfs across the board, making matches for you even easier and unfun for you. Then let's say they do the same but with your data. That would lead to them buffing survivors and nerfing killers across the board leading to me having even harder matches to the point I'm not having fun.
This is why matchmaking is so important. We really not talking about balance here, we talking about match quality. A good matchmaking system is supposed to match you with equal skill players so matches are challenging but so challenging that it feels impossible to win. I always thought DBD matchmaking needs more work because there are times where I get survivors who are way out of my skill level and completely crush me as killer than at the same time I get matches where the opposite happens where I get survivors who act like newbies and I completely crush them. The matchmaking in this game is all over the place and rarely does it accurately pair you up with someone who is at a similar skill level.
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Personally I don't think there anything the devs can do to change her reputation at this point. I don't even think a full rework will help and ppl will just continue to hate her. Even before we found out about her power and gameplay people hated her because she wasn't the cyborg killer they thought they was getting. People hated her visual design, going as far as calling her a fortnight character or sex bait (want to point out pretty much every thing is basically a fortnight character now of days lol) and people hated her lore as well. Things only got worse when we found out about her game play and the unhealthy strategy of 3 genning games for a hour.
They tried to rework her but this hasn't help SMs rep in the community. All people see now is a killer they always hated and rather go next instead of trying to learn her power and counter her. I honestly believe if the devs some how rework her to be the funniest killer to play against people would continue to hate her just because she is SM and that is it.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646732#Comment_3646732
I disagree that she is entirely a noob stomper. She can very much perform well against better survivor teams and also coordinated swf. She will not compete with your 4man comp squad. But let's be honest, 90% of the killer roster does not compete at that level. That's a balancing problem that is not Sadako specific but has to be dealt with in a game overhaul.
I dont know how you play her, but I feel anything but powerless. It's stressful for sure, but she is a lot stronger base kit than back then. I have enough experience to say that and I think most other Onryo mains can agree. Sure, she does not have addons like iridescent tape or ring drawing anymore, but that's a good thing. Both addons encouraged a very unhealthy playstyle and elevated her way above the power level she was supposed to have. She was a complete sweat fest back then if you wanted to perform well against better teams without these addons. Most of my matches had me at max stress level, because her power was lacking. Now her power level is higher. She's still a sweat fest but not as bad as before.
I have no problem being concentrated for 12 minuted. I like it. I play Amanda and Sadako for that reason. It's strategic over mechanical skill with the exception of the ambush. I like to be challenged and use strategy while playing. Both killers give me exactly that.
I completely understand that being at 100% focus for the entirety of the match is not something all people want to play and that's why I'm all for buffs. But we can't make a mori mechanic so strong, that it competes with tombstone piece Myers. That's unhealthy. The way the devs have made it, is buffing her mostly in chase. I very much appreciate that because it opens up new ways to play her and strategize around that.
She still needs tweaks. That being:
-2 second insertion
-TV auras removed
-Addon pass (for real this time)
-Changes to Gideon meat plant
(-passive condemned after a minute of holding)
Is she unplayably D-tier dumpster fire? No. Not by a long shot. Dedicated players find and found ways to make her work. We always do. She's a decent killer that needs a bit of help. Help that hopefully comes sooner than later.
But saying that she needs more help than og Sadako is just downright wrong.
I'm not even a Sadoko main and suck at her and I agree with this. I do believe in the right hands she can hold her own in this new version. I just wish they made few more smaller buffs to help new and avg players a bit more. Like the things you listed. I said before in this thread my first night on her wasn't great. Out of 6 games I won 2 of them and the rest I suggested really hard to get 3 hooks. As I mentioned I'm not sure if it was how I was playing her, my MMR being to high thanks to 2.0 being so easy or a combination of the two. I'm going to try again tonight sometime to see how it goes, hopefully better because I be honest I didn't really like the feeling I had after the other night. I'm going to use your suggested build to see it's better as well.
Either way I agree with most Sadoko mains on this thread and other others where they say she in a better place now. I really do think that but I also think she needs more help. I like to see 2s tapes back, TV auras changed, tapes having more risk to them, addon made better (especially if they add a addon that makes her lullaby map wide for more stealth gameplay) and lastly I like the limit on condemned rise to 4 or done away with completely. The limit I can live with as long as all the other things are addressed.
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I wouldn't say she trash since I saw a lot of ppl win with her yesterday on twitch. What I will say about her is she just a hard killer to play. I played 6 matches with her last night and won 2 of them. The other 4 was complete stomps where I couldn't get more than 3 hooks. They honestly wasn't really fun matches at all. The buildI was running btw was one otz suggested LP, NWTH, Pain and Pop. The addons I choice to use was the irl TV remote and the bloody nail.
Personally I think this also had something to do with my MMR on her being is pretty high thanks to how easy 2.0 Sadoko was and I probably going against survivors I really shouldn't be going against in my skill set. One reason why I wish the devs would do a soft MMR reset on killers they completely rework.
I'll continue to try to play her but I'm not very confident if I get better or not. I mostly stick to easy killers like Legion, Wraith, and Xeno. Killers where I really don't have to think alot. It's one reason I don't like playing sing, it requires way to much thinking for me since I play DBD to relax and grind BP. Maybe I watch some of @radiantHero23 videos and see if I can learn from those.
To summarize I don't think she really bad, just hard. I also think people going to have a bad time thanks to how easy 2.0 was and that made their MMR skyrocket. I still think tapes should be 2s and on TV auras shouldn't be shown at all times. Survivors should only see the TV they need to deliver their tape too. I'm also not a fan with the limited stack lock in but that I can live with. I rather see the tape insertion time increase and the TV auras nerfed.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3644984#Comment_3644984
I would ask the same for killers.
Are multiple 2nd chances okay?
Are 4 Gen rush perks are okay?
Then why is Ultimate weapon being fine when denying survivors aura perks? But Distortion is not?
Guess what perk is about to get nerfed in few months? Ultimate Weapon, so killers won't have that soon enough since I'm pretty sure it be gutted like so many other killer perks.
Ultimately I don't want distortion be completely useless or gutted. Personally I'm fine with one simple change and that is make it like Stack Out and Pebble where you can't get tokens while in chase. Right now distortion might as well not even be a token perk because you hardly ever run out of tokens and pretty much have it up 100% of the match. I run distortion sometimes as survivor and I have never ran out of tokens, not even once.
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@ImWinston said:
"aura perks" are so good and varied (some require very simple actions to activate like kicking a generator or opening a locker), I think it's only fair that there is a good perk to counter them.
the mere existence of "distortion" pushes killers not to focus too much on aura perks.
Yeah instead focusing on aura perks killers will just run multiple slowdown perks instead. Here a question as a survivor what would you rather have? A killer who run 4 slowdowns or a killer who has maybe one or two slowdown, and a aura perk or two?
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3644952#Comment_3644952
It's not like it really matters. You can't drop grades and grades don't mean anything besides bp on reset.
Ppl like that extra 1mil bp each month. I know I honestly get sad when I'm not able to reach irl 1 each month and miss out on the 1mil bp. Ppl just really enjoy getting alots of BP, that why ppl love cakes and bloodrush events. I'm still struggling trying to get legion and xenomorph to p100. As you said ranks doesn't mean much other than the BP and that why I think depiping shouldn't be a thing either.
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@Exxodus21 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/404669/devs-use-lights-out-to-test-dodging-p100s
Idk why anyone thinks survivor prestige = skill. Most of the time all it means is that survivor has a main and that's who they spend all of their blood points on.
Personally I think it mental or state of mind thing. Ppl associate p100 with time played and in turn associate that with skill. I know I find myself sometimes really nervous as killer when I have few p100s in my lobby because back in my mind I'm thinking the MMR system just pared me with a group who are way above my own skill level and because of that it leads me making mistakes I normally wouldn't and end up losing. As you see because I saw the p100s I went into the match thinking I'm going to lose and I end up losing because of that state of mind. It's a endless cycle that feeds on it self. I know prestige levels don't actually mean anything but I can't shake off that feeling whenever I see one.
This is why as a killer main I want prestige levels to be hidden so I don't psych myself out before the match even begins. When they tested out hidden levels few months ago I noticed I stop caring or stressing out so much about prestige levels and actually had fun. It's just info we really don't need going into a match at all.
Another reason why I think ppl think prestige levels equal skill is because it's the only info we have about our opponents. We don't see our or others MMR so we don't know if the system is even working. Do we have go with the only info we have on the screen and that's people's prestige levels. In other games you usually can see everyone ranks or MMR so you know what skill level opponent you going against or went against.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3643945#Comment_3643945
I am firmly against the idea of removing any thematic elements from any characters for the sake of gameplay no matter, all it does is removing flavor from a character which only just makes them less cool to either play as or against.
However i am not against changing those elements to work differently, so as long as they keep the lullaby, they can change and adjust it however they want.
And personally I don't like it when thematics affecting gameplay. Gameplay should always be the most important when it comes to a character. You can have the all thematics you want for a character as long as it doesn't affect how the characters mechanics works and the lullaby does that exact thing for Sadoko. It virtually makes her stealth useless. I rather them either remove it completely or make it map wide that way it doesn't affect her stealth whatsoever. Even decreasing it would still affect her stealth and this is why I want either those two options.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3643288#Comment_3643288
I'd prefer that they simply decreased the range of the lullaby rather than removing it entirely, as removing it would kill off a very thematic part of the character and that would just be an overall decrease in quality for the character.
I personally I want the lullaby gone just because it hurts her stealth especially when they added the visual TR accessibility option. That was when the lullaby started to become an issue in my opinion since it allowed ppl to see her lullaby even though the lullaby itself is very quiet and almost unnoticeable. If ppl like the thematic of it, fine then make it map wide by base kit or make a addon make it map wide(I know few ppl had suggested this as a addon and I agree with them). Either that or make it where it doesn't interact with the visual TR accessibility option.
Personally from a gameplay pov I think only one killer needs a lullaby and that huntress since her kit lets her snipe ppl from long distances.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3643345#Comment_3643345
Nothing is stopping you from going for 7 stacks of condemn before death hook with the changes. All the changes do is help make condemn finishers a bigger part of her kit.
Do note that her condemn mori is much shorter than a normal mori and faster than picking up and hooking. Plus you don't lose a hook to the sacrifice either. So it's not like there's no reason to mori a survivor on death hook.
I still think the limited lock in mechanical is unnecessary. The whole point of the lock in mechanical was to encourage hooking instead of slugging and limiting it even at 3 stacks imo defeats that encouragement. Also I'm with Sngfun where I just don't see the point of mori someone on death hook. Even from a survivors pov it really doesn't matter since they know that they going to die anyway. Like if a survivor has 6 stacks and on death hook the chances are they won't even bother doing tapes since being a 7 stacks on death hook mean absolutely nothing, they dead either way if that killer catches them. This also means the slow down that tapes are supposed to offer just disappear as soon as the survivor is on death hook. They can just take a tape to turn off the TV and sit on the gen not having to worry about anything really since tapes don't have any downsides and they really don't even have to bother delivering since they on death hook anyway.
Survivors already have so much counter play against her right now since they can see tvs at all times and her having a weak chase power. All I see this change doing is encourage more slugging when a survivor is on their 2nd hook in hopes to build 7 stacks so mooring them actually means something. Why hook a survivor just to lock them at 6 stacks knowing after that hook only means they going to die anyway when I find them and it also takes away the slow down tapes are supposed to offer since a dead on hook survivor isn't even going to worry about getting a 7th stack since they died anyway.
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Overall I like the sound of these changes but I still don't understand why the limit lock on is a thing. I just don't see how increasing it by one makes any more better. I mean survivors are given so much counter play against Sadoko since they constantly see on tvs. I see wish we could just get the ptb version of her since I never got the chance to try it out myself.
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Personally from my own experience with the game I say DBD community is just as bad as any other online game community. The thing I hate the most from this community is its full of sore winners and they love to rub it in your face when you having a bad time. I'm a killer main so I can only talk from a killer pov but I'm sure there killers out there who are sore winners to thier survivors as well but I honestly haven't met a single nice survivor I can remember in over my 1000 hours of playing. It's either I get the survivors who are quite and move to the next (my favorite honestly) or o get the loud elitist survivors who love to rub their victory in my face. It's like salt in a Open wound. If I'm having a hard time as a killer (especially one I'm trying to learn) for some reason I get these types of survivors alot. They know you having a miserable time and do everything they can do make it worse. Just not fun when I'm know I'm losing so badly and I open the gates since I just want out but all I get for the 2mins is survivors dancing around me, flashlight blinding me over and over and over or teabagging me at the exit gate. Then when all that done I get the "gg ez baby killer" in the chat.
It gotten so bad that I just afk in basement after opening the gate to start the end game collapse and closing the end game chat box. It helped a little but not all much. In fact after my wrost night of killer I decided to take a indefinite break from DBD. I honestly haven't played the game in the last two months and I don't know when I'm coming back. I was going to try Sadoko but after the post PTB nerfs I decided against it. Maybe I play doing the Lights Out thing.
Either way I still think this community is just as bad as overwatch, cod, CS, LoL or any other online game community out there. Sure you have few nice ppl but they are drown out by a lot more toxic and sore winners. Once again this is all my own experience. Others may have experienced this game differently.
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@Xendritch said:
You shouldn't be winning when you don't know what you're doing otherwise there's no point in learning a killer.
Yes you will lose a lot that's just part of the process eventually you will start winning and it will have felt worth it.
I kinda hate this trend in gaming lately where everyone wants instant gratification and don't want to work for anything.
I can only speak for myself but the reason why I hate losing in DBD even when I'm learning a new killer is because the other side is always sore winners. No matter it's survivors or killers the winning side in DBD loves rubbing it in your face. Whenever I have a horrible match in DBD I'm greeted with teabags at exit gates, flashlight in my face or gg ezs baby killer in chat. Losing in DBD is a horrible experience imo because of the community and the poor sportsmanship people have.
I don't mind losing as long im having fun but losing in DBD is never fun thanks to it's toxic community. Honestly I been on a 2 month break after a night of losing every single match, only getting like one kill and having really low average of hooks. In single match I was welcomed to map offerings after map offerings and really strong items and builds. As no surprise I say 80% of the survivors after the match was really rude and nasty to me even after I said I was having a off night. I had such a bad time I decided I was done with this game for few months because I just didn't want with the community anymore.
I can only speak for myself but this why I hate losing in DBD.
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Whenever I see this type of post about current Sadoko I can't help to think "What kinda survivors are you going against to get those results?" Like I don't understand how any halfway decent survivor would get fully condemned with how much hand holding this version of Sadoko has. Like tapes have no downsides, TV auras are shown to you all the time, and taking a tape and putting a tape in only takes a second to do. Being down with a tape isn't that bad unless the Sadoko is running Ring Drawing. On top of that you going against a m1 killer with no chase power who stealth is so weak. All she has is a teleport and honestly there killers who have better map transversal like Xeno. New players sure may get condemned once in a while but any halfway decent gamer I feel would learn how easy to counter this version of Sadoko and never get condemned again.
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The nerfs to Sadoko just really saddens me so much. To start off when I saw the rework I was one of those who thought she was going to be to weak and really hard to play for a average player but I slowly changed my mind after having a really nice conversation with @radiantHero23 and reading the other Sadoko mains feedback. After all that I got really excited to play her again in this upcoming update since I do find current version of her way to easy and boring.l and don't play her. Now after reading this update my excitement is almost completely gone and now I'm feeling the way I was before I had my conversations with RadiantHero. Like why did you nerf a killer who, said by most of her mains, was balance and was in a good place in the PTB. I feel these changes was just unwarranted and unnecessary. Who was spamming thier TP to spread condemn in the PTB? From what I seen any Sadoko who used this method was punished more than rewarded because it would turn off all your TVs. I just don't understand any of this.
Finally I just wanted to say I feel bad for Sadoko mains who was excited for this rework. RadiantHero especially since it seems they was so happy for this rework and now sadden by these nerfs. Please devs reconsider these changes before next week's update.