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Is your issue that these addons/tributes are presented as low grade? What if all addons and tributes were presented as high grade? Would that satisfy you?
If the above is not the issue, what issue do you have with non-high grade tributes/addons?
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3249750#Comment_3249750
You take fun away from survivors. You take item that is relatively easy to counter, but provides great payout/fun when it works and you want to make it "hinder". Who is going to enjoy that? I tell you who. Killers. Until survivors leave that is.
You haven't read this thread at all. Read through it.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3249104#Comment_3249104
so you basically want survivors to have 0 tools and go down immediately. If not, then make their stuff as useless as possible.
Beware. There is already few survivors in game as is. If stuff you want goes live, you can wait for match for 30 mins.
I want the tools baked into the Power itself, rather than being tied with the flashlight. Not sure where you're getting removal of tools. I literally provided examples on how to bake counterplay into the power.
@Hex_iButt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3249104#Comment_3249104
There are, pallets will stun zombies too, causing them to despawn. Otherwise lead them away from the gen you're working on, and come back to it later, because that area is unsafe if Nemmy's keeping an eye out. You'll outrun the zombie. Hag on the other hand could use a rework overall, but otherwise you can disable her power without a flashlight. Run through them while she's carrying another survivor, as she can't warp to them. These interactions really aren't that significant at all. If they were, then every survivor would want to run flashlights with the intention to destroy the killer's powers vs saving allies.
As to why they're tied to flashlights, to give them more uses is only what I would assume is the intended purpose. They're easily flexible in the sense you can aim a light in any direction; pairing them with a different item wouldn't make sense. It becomes player choice if a killer decides to bring perks to counter them, and I doubt the devs will just delete all of these interactions just because of that.
Survivor items shown to the killer, allows the killer to adapt to each different lobby. It gives them an idea of what said survivors may be trying to do (4 flashlights for instance).
Bully squads, although they end up being what people complain about, there are not that many people who dedicate their time to playing in such ways. Even then, many of these SWF groups don't really do their objective of doing gens, and end up giving the killer free downs if they're all in your face.
There's no counterplay involved if you manage to successfully hinder the killer from their perspective. They just have to take the L as the survivor wiggles off if you need to travel some distance for a hook. Someone with a toolbox can come along to sabo the hook too to secure the wiggle. Even if you drop the survivor to go for the one with the flashlight, another survivor can come along to heal the downed person. This would be more abuseable by bully squads, especially if they input the basekit UB mechanics.
I really fail to see how Lightborn is problematic honestly. Sure it sucks finding out a killer has it, but its optional as a perk. It's llke Pokemon where a Ghost type is immune to Fighting type moves; you just adapt around it, in this case attempt to go for pallet saves when possible or put your focus on the objectives.
And that's pretty much a basekit Franklin's, which I don't see being beneficial to the health of the game. In concept, it does sound interesting for a killer to "disable" an helpless target on the ground, but it's too cruel of a base mechanic.
For nemmy that couterplay is ok at the start of the match. Later down the match when there are fewer gens and fewer pallets, a problem starts to emerge. That being said the zombie AI needs to actually be in the area to be useful anyway, and it's not like nemmy can order zombies around, yet.
Only Franklin's counters Flashlights (for Killer's Powers), Lightborn doesn't counter Flashlight effects for any Killers Power so far as I'm aware. All Killer Powers (at the moment), are required to be used in a location where the Killer/Survivor can move to (Victor even has a self-destruct if he lands on a raised surface...), so aiming the flashlight at something doesn't really do much that you could achieve just by moving your character.
There are a total of 6 interactions the Flashlight has with Killers Powers in the game. 2 of which are remnants of when the game released. If Flashlights were intended to be something to spice the game up by interacting with every Killer Power in a unique way, there'd be more interactions.
You adapt to your opponent(s) in-Trial. You do not adapt to them in trial lobby. There's a reason the Killer isn't shown to Survivors in lobby, and I see no reason to show Survivors Items so long as Lightborn exists in its current form.
Properly handling Flashlight charges reduces the ceiling on how much they can be used to be annoying, while improving the base effect can be used to make those reduced number of uses more impactful in other areas than just a pickup.
The scenario you describe sounds much more engaging than a binary "They hit the animwindow, reset encounter", with the counterplay being zoning, again. And if SoloQ is more likely to rush from a nearby gen to try and hinder the Killer, that sounds like they're falling under the same efficiency trap as you noted bully squads do.
Pokemon is a game all about type matching with you being able to create an adaptable roster of pokemon to switch through in a battle. And in DBD you can't really swap loadouts in-game, nor is it like you can search the Trial for a specific item (all chests are RNG, and even searching chests takes time).
Regarding the "basekit" Franklins, I'm not sure wat you mean by "disable" a target on the ground. People fall, they usually drop what they're holding. Is it too much? Maybe.
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@Jallybwan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3249117#Comment_3249117
While I do understand that view to some extent, I think FOV falls a lot more squarely into the quality of life/comfort/accessibility pool than gameplay balance. There are some elements of both, don't get me wrong, but I think there are more important aspects of DBD's balance than how many degrees of FOV the killer gets.
From an artistic standpoint, well, I can't really comment because I'm not an experienced artist. However, since DBD is a game, I think that while art is important, the most important thing to consider is gameplay. From a gameplay perspective, I think having an adjustable FOV should be implemented because it'd make the most people happy gameplay-wise. If someone feels comfortable with 90 FOV, they should be able to play at 90 FOV. If someone feels comfortable with 105 FOV, they should be able to play with 105 FOV. Little stuff like that goes a long way towards a positive gameplay experience, no?
If a full-on slider would be too much, perhaps a few set "levels" of FOV would be better? Something like 85, 90, 95, 100 and 105, as opposed to "any number between 85 and 105"?
I don't see the need to support lower levels of FoV if you introduce higher levels of FoV, since, as far as I'm aware, there are no accessibility concerns for a low FoV. It seems that people get motion sickness from a smaller FoV as well.
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@Jallybwan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3249110#Comment_3249110
I think by FOV slider, most of us mean being able to adjust your FOV to any number between ~85 and ~105 or so. The only reason we're not just straight up asking for basekit Shadowborn is out of consideration for the people who are more comfy with lower FOVs, if that makes sense.
Whatever the maximum changes to, should be the default. IMO even having the slider is a bit much, as it means from an artistic (and QA) standpoint you can't be certain all players will be viewing something the same way.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3248689#Comment_3248689
- There's two perks that alter FoV. Shadowborn and Monitor and Abuse. The latter would be fine just removing the FoV change, I run it and I don't notice the FoV change all that much, it's pretty useless in only being active during a chase anyway. Shadowborn could take some inspiration from Dredge's Nightfall, perhaps it could make survivors slightly more illuminated with a white glow around them when they're within x meters or something.
- This is a slippery slope fallacy. Most first person games run at about 90-100 degrees FoV as standard. There's no reason to go beyond that, you'd end up looking through a fisheye lens.
- 90-100 degrees
- Not necessary, as Shadowborn already increases it to 102 degrees, all killer models must already be set up for 100 degrees.
- Not necessary, as stated several times already, the difference between 90 and 100 degrees in terms of what you can hide behind, doesn't change anything.
Change your argument then. When I hear FoV slider I think of Quake.
Normalizing the camera to modern First Person FoV values is more succinct.
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@Hex_iButt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3248747#Comment_3248747
There are plenty of other killers who have interaction options with flashlights in general though, so its not really that niche if you're generally associating an item to a killer's power. Nemmy's Zombies (blinding them so they can't track you), Hag's traps (they go poof), Spirit while phasing (gets rid of her husk, making it a visual indicator that she is phase-walking), and more. They have general usage with a variety of killer powers, but some are going to be less used compared to others; Artist's crows for instance will disappear similar to Hag, but you're better off running out of the crow's line of sight instead. If you wanted to be specific on just Lightburn, then you're buffing Wraith and Nurse, and Nurse for sure doesn't need anymore buffs. Snuff out all of the interactions, and you buff the other killers as well.
Charges are fine as is. Sure, if you make it so they only can proc a certain number of times it can deter bully squads but that's the only real benefit I see from this initially. Even then, you'll see them in the lobby with their flashlights (unless they all decide to run Residual Manifest and all take the time to search chests, wasting their time), and can counter their game plan, so there's no issue that needs to be resolved. And other than killer blinds, I don't remember if using your flashlight on Hag's traps or Zombies count as "events" or not; if they do, then this becomes way too big a nerf for flashlights, and would kill them way more than keys. Even if you're method to compensate by adding a hindered status while flashing your beam on them, successfully adding that debuff to the killer would also count as an event no?
It doesn't take much brain power to make sure you pick up while facing a wall, yes. However, the skill expression comes from making sure you are safe to pick up that matters. Even if you pick-up facing a wall, you can still leave yourself vulnerable to a Flashbang save as you don't need the same angle requirements to perform one, just timing is altered. Knowing that all maps aren't going to have walls, that's where the ability to scour for anyone lurking comes into play. That's where you pretend you're going to pick up, if you have a feeling someone will still come out after searching every corner. It becomes the fault of the killer, not the fault of the map's design if you don't do these things.
BS or not, that's what Lightborn was intended for, so you don't have to think about it at all. Franklin's is meant to punish survivors for bringing an item with them. It's not as threatening as it was pre-nerf where the item would be swallowed by the Entity if not found; sure it would be dead and unusable unless you're running Built To Last, but you still have the option to keep it when you escape if you spend time searching for it. And if it was a common item in their eyes, then Franklin's value is somewhat lost on the killer if a survivor decides to ignore searching for it.
Nemmy’s Zombie interaction is strong, but I do not know why there isn’t a basic interaction to disable them without a Flashlight. (EG: they keep walking in the direction of the last point of line of sight of a survivor, so if a zombie approaches a gen, the survivor can lead them around a corner, then hop back on a gen while their back is turned)
I do not know why Hag’s traps cannot be smudged while crouched over them (alerting The Hag).
Artists crows is an odd one and more often then not, the time taken to burn it away is enough time for Artist to reach you.
Spirits visual indicator that she is phase walking is if she stops moving. Flashlights just remove the mindgame potential of a fakeout.
And then these are all interactions tied to an item for some reason. Why? If the general consensus for these Killers when seeing a lobby full of Survivors using these items is “make them not use their Items by bringing Franklins”, why even add those interactions in the first place?
And yeah, snuff out those interactions and rebalance accordingly.
regarding charges, aren’t bully squads the largest optical complaint? And regarding Hag/Nemmy as noted above I think their powers should have their Powers tweaked accordingly anyway as it’s odd that they have such a significant interaction with an Item.
I also don’t think Killer should see Survivors Items in the lobby.
This change isn’t going to remove the zoning skill for picking up survivors. The hinder (remember, this hinder is only applied while Lightburned and carry a survivor) should be strong enough that it significantly hinders the Killers hook range.
This change is intended to make it easier to apply a Flashlight effect, reduce application amounts, improve cognitive acceptance of events, increase flashlight use ability outside of pickups, and hopefully, removable of the blinding light screen in favor of something that can be darkerthemqtically (EG losing the connection to the entity causes the Killer’s screen to be obscured with Dark Fog)
I still think Lightborn’s total negation of an Item class is problematic (from a design standpoint), however I do agree that it’s fine as is for the given effects Flashlights apply.
Until items auto-equip after being sacrificed I don’t really see people bringing in trash items, and not really even then given the lowered cost of the Bloodweb.
I still wish that survivors dropped Items on the ground (with its Aura highlighted to them) when put into the dying state basekit. More thematic and engaging than just magically having it on you right off of Hook after being carried.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3248242#Comment_3248242
If they are advertising it as a hide and seek game it's to pull in more people. But the devs know the game is not a hide and seek game anymore, and they balance the game accordingly. It's hide and seek for the first 10 hours on survivor.
You can leverage the terror radius to walk away from a gen and use LoS blockers at the start of the match to cause the Killer to waste more time searching (Or if you’re near Deathhook). That is quite literally hide and seek.
Though in terms of resource allocation the game definitely falls more into tag once people start going for unhooks and there are fewer generators to be on.
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@Hex_iButt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3247360#Comment_3247360
There's still skill required though with lightburn. Wraith can easily move around to avoid a flashlight beam while uncloaking so he doesn't get stunned; it's not set in stone that he'll get stunned unless you're against a SWF. Nurse, I honestly hardly ever see anyone try to burn her (as they go down in seconds), but with enough reactive thinking an experienced Nurse I'm sure just knows to temper their blinks/be unpredictable. In Trapper's case, that was definitely a fatal flaw as it just held his power hostage. Wraith and Nurse are still able to use their powers, they just have to be patient on when and how they use it.
And flashlights do get more value if you've learned the timing definitely, that's the point of practicing the killer blinds. Going against an inexperienced killer makes this abuseable in a sense, however on its own, this factor does not equate to the effort put in to learn said timing. They're situational items when compared to a med-kit or toolbox, so their charges naturally are not going to go down as fast.
Killer blind is literally skill based. There are plenty of survivors who will point their flashlight at a killer, expecting it to do something while they are running full speed at them and get downed in the process. The best way/time to perform them is to take advantage of animation locks. You learn the animation timings, get in position for an angle, and wait for the killer to pick-up or fake it to lure the survivor with the flashlight out of hiding. Being conditioned to face a wall doesn't work in many outdoor maps if you're out in the open, so you take the time as killer to search your surroundings. If a killer just picks up blindly all the time it becomes an issue where they are not adapting. You learn from your mistakes, so you can become a better killer. Same goes for the survivor side too: you fail the timing/angle or just get caught, then you just have to practice your gameplay more. The only thing outside that isn't skill based that can make or break a flashlight save is latency (which they are addressing soon), and if a survivor is late on the timing a killer can still look away before being fully blinded.
And again, there is Lightborn and Franklin's if you want to not worry/worry less about flashlight saves being relevant in your matches. One perk negates any attempt, while the other eats up charges as a survivor scurries to search for their item on the ground.
With regards to Nurse/Wraith it’s not that it’s skillful or not, the issue is it’s a niche interaction between two Killers and an Item. Scrub it out so there’s less to maintain. Then utilize that tech to expand it in a more general sense.
With regards to charges, what I’m referring to is that there are too many charges. Even if it’s situational, something like causing a Killer to drop a survivor is something that should only be useable once or twice in a match without any additional perk/addon investment.
Make it so that flashlights don’t consume charges when shining it (even in the Killers face?) But only consume charges when an event is triggered, or something, but they should not be useable much after a successful attempt.
Sure, flashlight blinds might take skill on the survivors part to learn to perform, but that isn’t what I said.
I said it takes zero skill to look at a wall. And if there isn’t a wall to look into that’s the fault of map design not having enough LoS blockers.
Blood Lodge is great for both Nurse and Flashlight users.
Total suppression of an effect is kinda BS (with Lightborn).
And I still have issues with Franklins charge decay. Franklins Perk value should come from Survivors needing to retrace steps to their Item, not also removing uses from it.
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@Whoudini said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/352643/remove-flashlight-stuns-add-a-hinder
If the hinder is big enough, it would feel super terrible to get burned by a guy standing on top of saloon or something whilst your chasing a guy, or to lose scratch marks on lery's.
The hinder would only be while carrying a Survivor.
And the strength of this effect would mean that Flashlights would need to have something like 50% charges consumed on a successful Lightburn for the basic flashlight.
Honestly aiming the flashlight shouldn’t consume charges at all, just causing the Lightburn effect consumes charges.
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Consolidating all addons/offerings into a single pool would likely reduce the data used to store player profile information anyway. Not sure if there’s much of an overhead benefit there, but I don’t think something like this should be paid for via a consumer for only a partial conversion of players. All or nothing refactor.
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Take an Emergency Med-kit. Slap Gel Dressings on it. You now have two self-heals that are 10s.
Only ever use these charges when healing yourself off of Hook, these being guaranteed Injured states where the Killer is not around, unless of course they’re camping or tunneling.
Instead of 32s being used up between two survivors (16s each for the heal action), it is now just 10s for one survivor. This is 22s increased time-efficiency.
Then do this 8 times, if the Killer is playing for Hooks.
8x22= 176s potential seconds of time saved via 4 Emergency med-kits with gel dressings.
The counter to this, is to tunnel and camp out survivors with med-kits. Which survivors don’t like. Or to bring Franklin’s, which survivors don’t like. In the end the Killer just gets put down for being “unfun”, whereas the survivors are also being hypocritical given that extra time is of course going to be used for generators.
”abuse” is more or less an incendiary term so people start asking questions about more esoteric game mechanics.
(Don’t get me wrong, the agency med-kits provide us a great feeling, how quickly that is done is the issue though)
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I assume all FoV altering Perks and addons will be retired/reworked? What will their new effects be?
How would you address people that still want a higher FoV than what you think the limit should be?
What is the best FoV limit to address most motion sickness issues?
How long are you willing to wait for every 1st person Killer model to be reworked to accommodate all levels of FoV?
What kind of LoS bush-like objects should be added to loops so survivors can retain some ambiguities on location while the Killer performs a vault or a break action?
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@zHypnotism said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3247383#Comment_3247383
the only problem is that not everyone want to spend more real money on a game they already paid for to get a pretty meh killer and like 1 good perk while the shrine is inconsistent as hell and some people also don't want to waste their shards to buy the overpriced perks from the shrine when they can get killers or survivors with them as well
Oh yeah. I unlocked that perks years ago. They really need to rework the Shrine of Secrets to increase the availability of Perks so Perks are easier to identify as being overtuned/undertuned/problematic or in a good spot via increased access.
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@Eelanos said:
Why do people entirely disregard Franklin's and Lightborn as they level up. Like, I get it, they're not optimal, but when they work, they do work very well.
And it sounds like you tunnel the crap out of people, so you're an easy target for that stuff. Just equip it and enjoy the hopeless faces of survivors as they realize there's no way for them to save team mates.
Franklin's is literally one of the best perks in the game. It dumpsters Med-kits/Flashlights, and if survivors take the time to go pickup their items it's time spent not working on gens.
I do not know why people don't use it more. But I know that Survivors typically find it uninteresting to have their items constantly knocked from their hands the first time they're hit in chase (plus the charge decay).
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Slugging is always allowed. It's just boring. But it sounds like the survivors were intent on being boring themselves as well.
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@Hex_iButt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3247047#Comment_3247047
Questioning how it's outdated? It's still an effective way to stun Wraith at least. I haven't had any chances to use it on Nurse, but I'm sure it's really only kept in as a way to "counter" her blinks. I really don't see a reason to remove this unique mechanic. Turning it into a status just nerfs flashlights and buffs killers indirectly. It wouldn't matter if the killer gets slowed, as long as there's a hook in close proximity; even if there isn't they can always throw on Agitation and/or Iron Grasp to compensate. There's also the fact that a killer getting hindered and having to deal with it just because someone shined a light on them is pretty bad game design.
The status of disabling a killer's scratch mark tracking is also big for what a common item can do, and would be too abuseable. Even if you were to do this in a chase, it seems counterproductive for a survivor when the safest thing for them to do is just keep getting distance. Especially if the survivor is injured; lots of killer mains track by blood vs the scratch marks anyhow.
The killer blind mechanic for saving is 100% fine. Thing about flashlight saves is that timing is key for that stun. There's skill expression for the whole thing, learning when in the pick-up animation to aim away. If you can't get the timing right as survivor, it's just a thing of practice. If you're annoyed at the saves from the killer POV, then you do the method of picking up at a wall or equip Lightborn. You can even equip Franklin's Demise to even knock flashlights/flashbangs out of their hands too if you need to.
It's a Killer Power tied to a brought Item. Similarly to how Trapper used to have his Traps permanently disabled via Toolbox, it causes the Power to be oddly disproportionate in use not based on player skill, but loadout.
It would only be abuseable if Flashlights still had their sky-high charges as they do now. Technically Flashlights still are a bit of an odd duck where you effectively get more "uses" based on how inexperienced the Killer is you face, and how much time you've invested in learning animation windows. Capable of performing anywhere from 0-8 Blinds I think? If you could disable scratch marks base, likely the number of times you could "Lightburn" the Killer would be reduced (As in, a successful event would eat away charges, not just turning the Flashlight on)
The thing about the Killer blind mechanic is it's less about survivor skill, and more about if the Killer has been conditioned to look into a wall during pickup, and if they're near one.
I'm more or less annoyed at the saves given that it conditions the Killer to be the kid told to stand in the corner and it still retains the cognitive dissonance of "why the hell can I not close my eyes or look away during this animation".
I'm equally impressed and annoyed at a survivor puling off a save, and wouldn't want to remove the abbility of Flashlights to be used to help a survivor wiggle out, but IMO the whole presentation is silly. (And also the Lightburn particle effects and sounds are cool and I don't know why they don't expand upon that concept)
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@Hex_iButt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3247047#Comment_3247047
Questioning how it's outdated? It's still an effective way to stun Wraith at least. I haven't had any chances to use it on Nurse, but I'm sure it's really only kept in as a way to "counter" her blinks. I really don't see a reason to remove this unique mechanic. Turning it into a status just nerfs flashlights and buffs killers indirectly. It wouldn't matter if the killer gets slowed, as long as there's a hook in close proximity; even if there isn't they can always throw on Agitation and/or Iron Grasp to compensate. There's also the fact that a killer getting hindered and having to deal with it just because someone shined a light on them is pretty bad game design.
The status of disabling a killer's scratch mark tracking is also big for what a common item can do, and would be too abuseable. Even if you were to do this in a chase, it seems counterproductive for a survivor when the safest thing for them to do is just keep getting distance. Especially if the survivor is injured; lots of killer mains track by blood vs the scratch marks anyhow.
The killer blind mechanic for saving is 100% fine. Thing about flashlight saves is that timing is key for that stun. There's skill expression for the whole thing, learning when in the pick-up animation to aim away. If you can't get the timing right as survivor, it's just a thing of practice. If you're annoyed at the saves from the killer POV, then you do the method of picking up at a wall or equip Lightborn. You can even equip Franklin's Demise to even knock flashlights/flashbangs out of their hands too if you need to.
duplicate
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@Unimatrix00 said:
What do you mean? You simply complete the old tomes through the compendium, I think I got that right, tab in the archives.
Think audionovel. I guess the narrator/writers for these are doing a bang-up job.
I think what they mean is that they'd like it if the audio snippets could be played via an application, such as one that could be linked to a smartphone, then played over speaker while driving using bluetooth or USB connection.
Not sure if BHV has the bandwidth for it (to create a DBD app that acts as a mobile archive), or if they'd allow a third-party site to host a stream-able collection of these audio shorts either.
Remember, new players have 13 tomes to listen through/unlock.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/352643/remove-flashlight-stuns-add-a-hinder
What would be the benefit? I only see worse gameplay
Less binary success/failure. Additional use in chases. More about attrition (hinder and placement) than purely about if you got downed near a high-wall or not.
@Crowman said:
Flashlights don't stun. The killer is still able to move while blinded. Unless you mean saving a survivor from killer grasp, but that has nothing to do with flashlights and the mechanic of a survivor escaping the killer's grasp.
Also flashlights it would be awful if survivors didn't need to aim flashlights.
Also you are confused, because Lightburn mechanic is a stun and doesn't require aiming at the killer's face. You can lightburn a wraith by aiming at the body. Should work the same with nurse, but admittably I haven't tried. Flashbangs are really great at lightburning wraiths.
Hmm, guess I need to word by suggestion more clearly:
Remove the Lightburn Stun from Nurse and Wraith (This is an outdated mechanic).
Rework Lightburn as a Status Effect that can be applied to all Killers if a Flashlight is aimed at them.
Remove the Flashlight Blind Killer Pickup stun (Killer grasp stun, whatever you're calling it).
Remove the Head Aim requirement for the Lightburn Status.
To reiterate, Lightburn has now been reworked and is no longer a stun, and wiggle escapes via flashlight blinds is no longer a thing.
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@Lastchild said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3242866#Comment_3242866
Certainly, but if these players would spend money, they would become as important as those who currently do.
Because if no one spends more money, BHVR will not be able to guarantee the good maintenance of their servers, for lack of funds to support the costs.
Even if there were plenty of players.
Correct, however if no one spends time playing the game, it can’t function either.
You want to support both styles of players, and generally the majority will overlap. Sometimes they have time to play, sometimes they instead choose to bypass the time investment and choose to pay.
And also the more people you get into the game because of the choice to opt in for time investment, the better game optics of health you have, the more players come in, some of whom choose to mostly pay.
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Honestly I’d like the shrine of secrets to have all Perks available to purchase at all times, with a rotating discount across a subset of Perks.
Then also probably include a method to spend Auric Cells to unlock Perks. (But I don’t know how they’ve got their agreements setup with license holders).
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Even non-paying customers provide a benefit to the game. The game needs a large player pool to have a healthy queue. So you offer alternative routes of earning in-game rewards via a time-investment (shards). This helps queue times and helps paying customers have better matchmaking times and have a larger pool of players with whom to match with, likely increasing the chance of a more balanced matchup for everyone.
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I like the idea of grouping based on DC rate, but I don’t think adding a user tag is necessary.
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Long term (so long as the way it’s implemented isn’t too unbalanced, I think the timing is a bit fast at 45s): better MMR balanced matches that involve more chases and downs rather than an inflation of MMR in Killers that tend to rely (intentionally or accidentally) on the time-efficiency of perpetual slugging proxy being paired with tougher survivors.
Oh, they added that weird Mori auto-resolve. I guess that.
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I'd like to see non-persistent aura methods of indicating generator locations to Killers (as well as Hooked Survivors for Survivors) simply due to screen clutter, but honestly it's something that's kinda needed for the general audience. It promotes the Killer roaming the map and interacting with Survivors. (And in the same line of logic, this is why Gen auras are hidden for Survivors)
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3239944#Comment_3239944
If a survivor comes to you, I doubt you'd just ignore them right. Guy in hook and guy in front of you ya know. He ain't getting close enough to chase and honestly why even go through the trouble.
Saying mmr is being artificially inflated is a bit rough. if those actions cause you to be skyrocketed then I'd assume that's more of a devs problem than a player one.
But all in all I wouldn't change the honesty grab and unhook so drastically.
Course I wouldn’t ignore them. But if they’re far enough away as you say they’re far enough you can start to proxy (to look for the survivor likely hiding around the hook) and circle back in on them once they move closer to Hook or you get closer.
I wouldn’t just stand there ignoring them.
And yeah, if you rely on hook camping, more specifically in the context of this thread Insta-down camping and Healthy grabs, it will artificially inflate your MMR.
And yes, this is a dev problem, and to fix it, I am suggesting these changes to Unhooking.
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3239902#Comment_3239902
But I am getting them. In fact their coming to get me and there gonna go for the animlok
Strategically they should just let the Survivor die on Hook and never interact with you if coming to Hook means that it needs three Survivors at all times and is a guaranteed trade at three or a double down with two as you seem to want.
You’re playing to win, they’re not, and your MMR is being artificially inflated because of that, making you face harder opponents that you find the need to camp against since you’re not at that MMR skill-level to properly chase or exert pressure, and it all just feeds into you needing to camp to pad stats.
They’re coming to you because sitting on gens is a lot more boring than being in chases or trying to rescue your friends.
And if you make camping even easier to do all you’re going to do is get Killer nerfed. (Hence thread).
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Rework Firecrackers so they instead create a scattering of scratch marks (these ones also visible to Survivors), to be used in jungle-gyms to try and lose the Killer via misdirection.
A Doll-sized Wicker Survivor effigy that when used burns away in the Survivors Hand and applies/removes status effects based on addons used. (Take all single-status suggestions in this thread and throw them into this).
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3239724#Comment_3239724
Not really. Survivors definitely just run over whether they think you saw them or not. Many times have survivors just openly ran to the hook before I can even leave the area.
Yeah, you’re a Killer, go get ‘em tiger! Instead of twiddling your thumbs sittin on yer bum like a statue waiting for an animlock.
@PrincessCalla said:
There are a few ways to counter this. Flashbang is one, another is everyone working together to unhook the survivor if the killer is camping, if someone gets grabbed while unhooking, let one flashbang or use a flashlight for a save, and the other can unhook. It's all about team work, my friend and I only solo q, and we often are not on voice together and we manage to pull it off a lot. I think its fine how it is.
The level of coordination you’re describing is also valid, but I wouldn’t say expected across the board, or warranted given how little coordination is required on the Killers part for camping.
Flashbang/Flashlights are items, valid but the expectation to always have one on hand isn’t.
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3239138#Comment_3239138
If it helps campers it's just a side effect really.
Frankly speaking the only time you’ll be sitting near a Hooked Survivor outside of EGC is if you’re camping, so it’s not really a side effect. And if you want EGC to be more interesting there’s better ways than Hook grabs.
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@Bran said:
I usually say make it so survivors have to commit to the unhook a lot little longer so killers can get the grab. If the survivor initiates a stand off they shouldn't be winning it so easily. I say healthy grabs should be a thing just to be able to not have to trade.
The longer the grab window you introduce against Healthy Survivors on Unhooking the more you effectively give all Killers an Insta-down should they choose to sit on Hook, and the more you reinforce camping as the optimal playstyle.
If you let the Survivors reach the Hook unpunished, you did not zone them correctly, they touched the pole. Adding to the criteria “but now you have to stand there for a second and if I touch you it doesn’t matter” kinda makes for an annoying design.
You sound like a survivor complaining that it’s unfair that the Killers can’t be flashlight stunned during the pickup animation as well.
It shouldn’t be there because it’s arse design.
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@Murgleïs said:
You are not supposed to unhook next to the killer. And yes, you should be punished for it.
If the killer is camping bring reassurance, or smash gens and leave. Stop asking for the easy and free 4 man escape.
This would be a massive buff to unhooking, meaning you only have a tap the hook to guarantee the save, that’s stupid. It negates any kind of skill from the killer or survivor perspective.
Speaking as a a former arsemunch of a salty Killer, with an instadown, it takes zero skill to prep a hit into the unhook animlock.
What takes skill is zoning approaching survivors and getting an early M1 in so that you can followup another basic attack before the unhook animation is finished so the Unhooked Survivor can’t bodyblock (or so the Unhooker can’t use DeadHard).
99% Myers into an instadown on anyone stupid enough to go for the save is not skillfull, especially if you bank on tiering up while the Survivor is going for the Unhook. In fact that’s kinda a fail if you weren’t able to intercept the survivor with the instadown before they reached the Hook.
The Killer, by all accounts, should be following other Survivors after getting a Hook. If they are not, then it is not the Survivor making the Hook unsafe, and if the survivor can reach the Hook before the Killer intercepts, that’s fair game for a trade.
Because guess what? Trades aren’t trades at all! That Survivor that just traded lost all chase time potential their health states had, just to be put into the dying state fresh for a Hook.
Arguably the Healthy grab is skillful, but I’d rather see that nerfed as to not be mandatory gameplay skill and Killers buffed in not so mindnumingly dull methods of match interaction.
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237748#Comment_3237748
It's like no one can read...
I'll put it in caps might help you see better
I KNOW BHVR WORK ON OTHER GAMES AND HAVE MADE OTHER GAMES.
I just dont want another death garden situation where it's a complete flop. So yeah I'd rather them use most of their company on DBD and only work on smaller projects on the side... or grow bigger so they can handle big demanding developments along side DBD.
Do yourself a favour and read before you jump on the bandwagon of trying to say I dont know they work on other games jeez
Death garden flopped due to a core gameplay issue that promoted less player interaction given hunter hyper-lethality, and the resulting "fix" introducing DBD's hook system quite literally was a tone-deaf addition that failed to realize that any scav that went to go for the Hook was likely signing their own death cert by deliberately walking into a zone where the Hunter would know you'd be coming to for an optional side objective that didn't help you escape as a scav or get kills as a hunter.
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237655#Comment_3237655
I'm fully aware you make other games, iv played them. But DBD is your big main game and honestly what made your company big, not saying naughty bear etc. Wasnt good but its DBD which grew.
And you dont need the same people to work all week, you split it into shifts so people arent burnt out but your game has constant observation.
Nothing sucks more than having to wait a whole weekend for huge bugs to be addressed or even removed. Sure it's not that common but over the years it happens
Most social life is based around M-F workweeks, and weekend shifts are the #########-shifts. Unless your entire social group is in the same work schedule as you, weekend shifts eat into your social life.
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Kindred's increased Killer Aura reading is fine as it helps people get survivors off Hook and promotes continual interaction between players.
Wiretap just incentivizes hiding from the Killer or wallhacks in loops without the Survivor having to put in any skin in the game, they just have to continually do their objective and then they can plonk it down, quickly, and can still work on the generator while it's active, giving wallhacks on all non-undetectable Killers letting the Survivor know the best way to navigate away from the generator and circumvent any locational ambiguity with the Terror radius.
All with the only "counter" to this perk is dropping chase, letting survivors move farther away with full knowledge if the Killer is going to kick the gen, and you never know if you should do so at all because wiretap has no tell that it's in play. Nothing with a BP score event for destroying a wiretapped gen, no model on the generator, or even a distinct Break effect spark.
If Wiretap were ever to work with Open Handed the following would need to happen:
If the generator is being repaired, the Aura reading it provides is suppressed. A small model is placed ontop of the generator in a similar fashion to Blastmine. It can only be used once, to be reused you'd need to rummage through a Chest (but nyx the 33% repair requirement).
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KYF has everything unlocked, there is no reason for Bloodpoints to be earned in those matches.
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@SoulKey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3235043#Comment_3235043
Time urgency is an effective marketing strategy.
And tbh, i don't believe BHVR when it comes to any time-limited events/purchases; They always come back most of the time.
Indeed it is.
However unless they decide to be transparent with the cosmetic, such as using "recurring time-limited outfit" terminology, I'll just lean on the more negative interpretation. (And have more fun stirring the pot as getting more people riled up that it's limited will only serve to get more people to buy it, even at PR expense, and money is the goal amirite?)
Oh hang on, this is about the doctor feng skins that are not part of the Halloween time period. In which case, I suppose it will remain to be seen. Could go with "[The Rift's] Exclusive access [to Cosmetics] before anyone else" as the Rift access to cosmetics is a much more reliable and timely method of acquiring a cosmetic than waiting for an unknown amount of time for those cosmetics to enter the store normally.
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I'd recommend the upcoming Dead Space "Remake" if corpse mutilation is your thing.
However I'm not sure how well it would mesh with cosmetics, but otherwise I'm kinda indifferent on the subject if it has a toggle.
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It is a bit strange. Limited time only also means limited time customer interaction and limited time return on work done (as well as limited time customer base range, that is, of course, unless you do complete resets every couple of years that wipes all player investments/purchases in lue of "zomgosh is DBD 2!" like with overwatch...)
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@YOURFRIEND said:
Just give an option menu with all the cheevos and when you want one, you just check the box next to it. Not like they matter anyway.
cheevos should still require the action to be performed.
That being said being able to manipulate the environment to be better suited for the action to be performed is something even MMOs don't stop (EG: selling raid boss achievements via IRL currency or in-game currency)
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3232183#Comment_3232183
Probably because achievements were created as a way of extending the lifespan of a game, and if you could earn them in KYF you could probably knock them all out in under 20 hours pretty easily.
There's something to be said about the social coordination needed in order to get players to join a KYF lobby to get those achievements knocked out in the first place, but otherwise I agree.
Suppose in the end it's a matter of direction: a standalone product that can be fully experienced with a smaller audience (KYF retaining the Peer-to-peer is interesting), or something that mandates an official online only component.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3232063#Comment_3232063
"They could do something as simple as having players gain no pips if someone is killed and they are the only hook stages in the game."
They don't do that because survivors could troll killers into depipping by throwing themselves at the killer. Also, killers could also accidentally tunnel if they aren't paying attention to who they hooked last. It has happened to Otz countless times when he gets DSed unexpectedly. Survivors can also all play the same survivor with the same outfit to make it difficult for the killer to identify the survivors, increasing the odds of accidental tunnelling occurring.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3232146#Comment_3232146
"The thing is, that splitting pressure across all 4 survivors is technically viable. The only downside is that the Killer needs to be able to consistently down survivors in a timely manner in order to apply any pressure at all. And this varies based on skill level, and items/perks/killers used."
It largely depends on the killer. High mobility killers like Nurse and Blight can achieve this but weak killers with no mobility like Myers and Trapper can't.
"Also IMO instead of creating methods that empower Killers for not tunneling, I'd rather see methods of empowering Survivors for when Killers tunnel. Things like being able to absorb hook states that others have to give them more time via some kind of ritual."
They've already done that. It's called Borrowed Time and DS. I also disagree with this approach because killers will still try to tunnel but they will try to play around the anti-tunnel perks, e.g. waiting out BT and DS. It also doesn't address the fundamental reason killers tunnel in the first place, which is that it's necessary to beat strong teams and it's stronger than splitting your hooks.
It's only stronger than splitting hooks (even with DS/BT) because Survivors are unable to utilize ~8ish or so hooks before someone gets killed and the game shifts to a 1v3 which fundamentally alters the gameplay by utilizing all survivors for the Hook altruism loop: 1Hooked/1Chased/1Rescuing/1
RepairingDeadI'd say experiment with seeing what happens if you give Survivors a communal pool of sacrifice states to eat through, but that seems a bit... too simplistic, with no need for survivors to interact with one another. (And ignores initial gameplay in which there are no survivors in a chase and all 4 could be on a gen)
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I mean, not sure why achievements can't be earned in KYF lobbies, don't think any achievements specify official matchmaking only.
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current maps are designed around the Killer not having stagger, and the survivor having stagger. If the issue you're taking with this is the dissonance of "why are they not interacting with the environment the same way?", that could be pondered with methods in which to show that the Killers are "favored" by the entity in the chase, maybe giving fog contrails and a buffet of fog acting as a cushion to better visually distinguish that there is a difference.
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The thing is, that splitting pressure across all 4 survivors is technically viable. The only downside is that the Killer needs to be able to consistently down survivors in a timely manner in order to apply any pressure at all. And this varies based on skill level, and items/perks/killers used.
Also IMO instead of creating methods that empower Killers for not tunneling, I'd rather see methods of empowering Survivors for when Killers tunnel. Things like being able to absorb hook states that others have to give them more time via some kind of ritual.
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Seems like an interesting avenue for an Exhaustion Perk, but not as a consistent tech.
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Make the Hatch return as an alternate escape route again, and use this to let Killers get a Mori:
Void Rifts appear in The Basement, which when Void Energy is deposited into, randomly places the player (Survivor or Killer), in a random corner on the Map.
Once The Basement is fully charged, Hatch becomes visible and can be opened during the EGC (needs time to open if not a result of last survivor standing), and Survivors can be Killed while dead on Hook once all Generators have been powered.
Or something.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3230584#Comment_3230584
I actually only rarely lose the mindgame you're talking about at shack, it's pretty reliable. Also if someone does seem to be up on it you can double-fake it by showing the red glow, backing up slightly and doing a 180, then backing up into the doorway. A survivor who was watching for the mindgame fake will possibly think you went back to the window and still be standing in the middle of the shack when you back in, giving you a hit or pallet drop in that case.
Also just stare at the wall while moving sideways so there is no stain to be shown across the doorway.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3230489#Comment_3230489
Actually I'm not all that convinced that removing the red glow does much in a chase. In fact there are times when having the red glow makes mindgames easier, not harder, such as intentionally showing a bit of your glow around a corner then backtracking the other way at a loop. At best it's a very slight benefit. I don't even think a perk that made you literally Undetectable in all chases would be very good honestly.
Why not lean into that mechanic a bit more then? Upon pressing [Button], a copy of The Stain appears where the Perk is activated for x/y/z seconds, during which The Killer's Stain is suppressed.
It can be used to creatively place the Stain in certain parts of a loop, while also giving some on-demand use of Stain suppression.