ArthurVeloso
ArthurVeloso
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@Sheffield said:
I play DBD every day and in every Match the Killer is tunnelling.
Why is nothing done there?
It takes the fun out of the Game. You can no longer escape because the killer is playing unfairly.
only recently are the killers all so that they play like that.
I've been playing dbd since release and love the game but now I'm on the verge of saying no I'm leaving the game.
The Match start Killer have fast one down and camp/tunnel this person. And the round is as good as lost.
every and every and every round.
how do you see it and what is your opinion on it?
That's why the Devs MUST BUFF DECISIVE STRIKE in order to severy punish this kind of misconduct.
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@King_Viper said:
Maybe if a player dcs with 5 gens remaining. eliminate one gen for each dc up to two dcs. so if you have two players left you still have to do atleast 3 gens
It sounds reasonable
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3222361#Comment_3222361
That's a completely ineffective strategy tho and just guesswork, you also don't gain condemned while downed or chased so worst case scenario you get downed while trying to put the tape in
Firstly, as I previouly stated in the previous posts in this discussion, that strategy, regardless if it is less common, is unfair because Sadako can exploit the possibility to build condemn while not in chase, when the chosen target holds the tape. Aura reading add-on will ensure that she will know the location of the most prossible TV, and she can teleport afterwards and just camp there while the survivor get condemned. If the survivor is alread injured, by the hit and run tech at early game, she will just need to down the survivor and quickly kill him. Moreover, the fact that Save the Best For Less can be used to further deny the TV tape animation is another factor that contributes for this gameplay.
My whle point here is, in summary, (because I am tired to explain it over and over again), that Sadako should not be allowed to body block the TV by just standing there if she knows that this TV is the right one. She should after 5 seconds of standing still 0.5 meter from a TV, immediatly demanifest, so the survivors could avoid full condemnation. Survivors do not have a choice once Sadako stand still there, they cannot put the tape in another TV. The only choice is to heal, hide (useless bc the killer's instinct will reveal your location), and avoid get down for a insta kill.
I know and I totally agree with the possibiliy to add her a buff to make her power threatning, but only after fixing this punctual issue.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3220839#Comment_3220839
Ironic given how so many killers sweat for "4ks" so much
Like a hook kill isn't even impressive. If you wanna try something impressive do a wesker throw kill or condemn kill
I agree that condemn kills are difficult to get unless the player use the drawing ring and slug. The devs should make her brown add-ons base kit to make easier to mind game and get downs to hook survivors. However, the fact that she can still body block some TV's by just standing there is the things that most upset me.
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@Marik1987 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3222193#Comment_3222193
You put Thana on the same level than DS? Oh boi....
I will just spare my time to answer to this by showing to you proofs of my view.
https://youtu.be/MjEM420Erig https://youtu.be/nwX070xFbo0 https://youtu.be/csMI7NnOafs https://youtu.be/fj5-jj-6Yvg https://youtu.be/0sOneDW4KOQThose stacking gen regression / repairing slowdown are terrible. It just makes some that is extremely boring even boring, give a huge advantage to certain killers, but also benefits non-specific killers too in a way to be present in almost every game before 6.1.2.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3221659#Comment_3221659
Never did you ever play survivor and run to a generator, get it to 33% and for no reason at all run around the map to find another generator and get that one to 33% and then finally find a third generator somewhere else and get that generator to 33% progress before going back to the first generator to get it from 33-66% (or 0-66% if the killer touched it).
You find a generator and finish it. Why? Because finished generators can't be stopped. Likewise dead survivors can't be resurrected. Killer and survivor are both played more efficiently when you finish discrete parts of the objective. Finishing a generator is infinitely better than getting a generator to 90% and have it be reset to 0% progress. Likewise as killer you hook one person three times to end them. You might be going for three states on two people so you can "one hook" a third survivor at the end of the game. If you want to lose then you will hook each person once before ever hooking anyone twice.
Tunneling and gen rushing are the same idea applied to both game roles. Tunneling is not fun for survivors and gen rushing is not fun for the killer. You can't just ask to remove one without dealing with the other.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3221807#Comment_3221807
Here's a crazy idea....
Give the killers with the possibility to cheese DS a 5 second stun (Nurse, Blight, Clown, PH, Plague, etc).
Then give all the other killers a 3 second stun.
The only problem I see with this is that Plague should only get a 5 second stun if she has her spit power. But do you think the devs can code the game so that the killers can be separated into two different DS categories? Much less do you think they could give plague a 3 second stun without her power and a 5 second stun with her power?
The distance gained by 3 seconds is still insignificant to react a pallet or a window, unless you got downed very close to one.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3221696#Comment_3221696
Ds should be 3,5s stun and faster animation then it should also disable killer power for 5s so that would put every killer on equal position facing it.
I like you idea, but HOW the animation will be after is another important thing.
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@Marik1987 said:
Nothing will get reverted. End of Story. If u like it or not doesnt matter.
I have to live without Pop or Ruin, I even lost 15sec Dead Mans Switch just because of a Merciless Storm-Bug.
Will they restore my favourite perk while fixing this Sadako-Perk? I doubt it too.
Are you DBD representative? If not, who said it won't be changed? They changed the crazy overpowered thanatophobia that was making the game be flooded by legions and plagues. People killing themselves on the hook, and so on and so forth. Changes are necessary for this issue, if not addressed, they may suffer the consequences of survivors stopping play the game. Simple.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3221760#Comment_3221760
I'm sorry you had such bad experiences in past games but as I said it is not really a free win. The killer already won the match before. Killing 3 survivors is a win by definition and giving the last survivor the chance to escape via hatch is nice consolation prize but getting another chance to win after they fail to get the hatch feels weird. A perk that counters this specific scenario does something that should only be logical. It basically guarantees the killer wins the game after they won both the real 1v4 and the 1v1 for hatch. Getting the exit gate open is not easy on a map like Midwich but what about Suffocation Pit, Eyrie of Crows, Ormond, Mothers Dwelling, Temple of Purgation and the list goes on where often enough there is no way the killer can defend both gates if they're not super mobile just because they are too far spread an there isn't a line of sight between them.
I just disagree with the possibility of a perk locking the only chance a survivor have from escape. Even if a killer doesn't have stacks on NWO (in case of DCs), he will get 12 seconds from it. (If I am not mistaken) So, yeah, I believe that it is unfair.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3221759#Comment_3221759
The problem is that it isn't 45 seconds. Unbreakable is already a very popular perk and I don't see that changing. Its pickrate will probably sky rocket. 22,5s of being on the ground might seem like a bad thing for the survivors but if that means another survivor makes it to the next safe structure or pallet it's a huge payoff. Someone like Nurse won't even notice anything different but a Clown, Trapper, Myers, Sadako, Freddy etc. will feel the impact. It isn't just the immediate consequences of the perk getting a buff I'm worried about but more the ways in which it can be used to provide an advantage it should not provide.
To be honest, I don't like the unbreakable and the last survivor standing idea too. Mean, survivors could get just ONE self pick up as basekit ONLY. So, slugging to death would be countered. Last survivor standing seems like a bad joke, slug nurses and blights might take advantage of it very easily.
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@Xord said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3221757#Comment_3221757
Why would you open a chest in the center of the terror radius?
If you've been injured and the killer changes target, go away, open a chest, and heal yourself.
If you've been unhooked and the killer comes back to the save, getting healed isn't an option either way.
If you've been unhooked and the killer chases the savior and leaves you alone, again, go away.
Also, if you're really that worried about the time it takes to open chests, you also have the option to 99 any chest you find, and take the time to memorize the chest location.
You're making opening chest a big deal, but any suggestion you're giving hilds the same problem that the perk is tied to chests.
If you open a chest while not injured, the killer might still find you.
I think it deviates the focus of the objectives. If you run this perk, you might play around it, if you go to away and go back just to open a chest and heal, it seems kind of awkward. I mean, you could instead use circle of healing and do it infinite times. It saves you time, and other people can use it.
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@Xord said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3221716#Comment_3221716
OTR, DS and arguably BT are the only real anti tunnel perks.
OTR doesn't combo well with DS because of how limited in time DS is, using OTR makes it unlikely to get caught before the 60 seconds are up. And BT doesn't combo with neither DS nor OTR.
What you seem to be very stubborn not to understand is that if you don't tunnel, you don't get DS'd. The point of DS existing is to make tunneling a bad strategy.
I get that you say you hate tunneling but at the same time you're not making efforts to be open to changes that would reduce it.
Now if a killer WANTS to kill someone, he will. But the end result should be that he doesn't get more than 1 kill.
Well said, bro.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3221749#Comment_3221749
The hatch mechanic is outdated anyway. Think about it. It is the ULTIMATE second chance. Even if you did nothing all game and the killer absolutely annihilated your team you can still escape. But it gets even worse. A killer closing the hatch allows a survivor to potentially open the exit gates which sometimes is even easier and safer than to find the hatch. Another second chance btw (more like a third one). And if the survivor now manages to escape via gate the MMR system considers them to be the winner of the match. Meaning you can lose the game twice and still win. A killer running No Way Out and closing the hatch might seem like the win is gifted to them but remember that only happens if you lost the game twice already. I hardly think this is the same as a person that basically cannot be killed because they still have DS.
I totally agree that the hatch mechanic is outdated. I personally only scaped by hatch 5 times since the last update. I miss old hatch, but keys should not allow more than one person use it. It should be one key for one person. Anyway.
I mean, it feels like a hope to survivors that did something in the match, but got teammates that DC (attempted unhook to death) and leave them by themselves (It happens a lot with me). Sometimes, I did 1 gen, and two of my teammates killed themselves on the hook after being downed. I mean, I did my part, I played the game, but they screwed up and it heavily impacts my mmr when I don't get the gate escape after hatch is closed. However, I must say that escaping through the gate after hatch is closed is the most hard thing to do, and I rarely get it, and having no way out in top of it just give the killer a free win. No way out should only be used when the last gen is popped not when the hatch is closed.
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@Xord said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3221719#Comment_3221719
it is absolutely not risky to search a chesty (at almost double the speed) while being injured, especially if you get a green medkit.
Also if you really fear getting injured, just bring a medkit, and get pharmacy on top of it. But really, being able to find a green medkit up to 3 times is very strong.
You also have the option to 99% your heal, and open all chests on the map and give everyone a green medkit.
Being able to prepare your green medkit isn't that useful. Being limited to only one made the perk trash.
It is risky to do that. I played killer, and if I hear something like someone opening a chest nearby, I would go for that person for sure. I personally don't do it because of the killer is a stealth killer, the risk is higher. I prefer being healed by a teammate than doing it by my own.
It is strong in theory, but it is not practical. I have never seen someone in my lobby run such a perk since the update released.
99% heals is a good strategy only if the killer has not sloppy butcher.
I think they should make it able to get them without being injured or being able to rummage 2 times chests already opened to get medkits.
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@Xernoton said:
Honestly, I would be fine with 5s DS as long as it deactivates in end game. No perk in the game should guarantee you escape just because you got hooked to close to end game. What is that? I still keep coming back to this one question though... Why do you need DS to be buffed when you have OTR which can be used perfectly fine an anti-tunnel perk TWICE. The reason why many people consider DS unfair is because just as OTR nothing stops you from using it aggressive. If you get healed or someone else is downed and hooked after you get unhooked, you are not getting tunneled. DS however will still activate in those instances. Also let's be real. You could stun the killer for 10s+ and it would only incentivise tunneling even more because most killers would be affraid of survivors using it aggressively. The solution is then to get it out of the way immediately and kill this person to make up for the time lost. Not to mention with base kit unbreakable you will again be invincible for 1 minute with only 1 perk slot needed which would make it unfair if DS was 5s again.
I agree that DS could deactivate at the end game. But, 3 seconds stun time is way too short to punish a unfun play style.
Now, If a perk should not give someone a free escape, why No Way Out don't deactivate after hatch is close? I mean, a killer should never get a free kill because of a perk too. For instance, a person "A" is the last person alive in the match, and both killer and survivor are looking for the hatch; the killer founds it, and close it. The person is right by a gate and when they try to power it. BOOOM... No Way Out. I mean, this perk basically will let the killer know their location and it is over. It is just sit down, cry and drink camomile tea to lower the stress levels (jk). But, yeah, no way out should not work like that, as well as DS should deactivate at the end game. But, if we keep one, we should keep the other by comparison.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3221705#Comment_3221705
When did I ever say that DS was an issue for me exclusively? Just because I dont want a 5 second DS stun Im automatically a killer that constantly tunnels?
Look through all of my posts and youll see I do not like tunneling at all. Ive made it clear that I dont tunnel and I think the strategy hold a lot of people back from being better at the game. Ive stated before that I think tunneling is a valid strategy, but it still does not make it the right strategy to use.
I just think that somethings are a bit overkill, and I think 5 second DS is overkill.
And also because Im stubborn and want BHVR to uphold a promise from literal years ago.
I didn't not say that this is an "exclusive issue for you". I said that "No One forces you to pick up a survivor...", If you do that, you should pay the price. Just for clarification purpose, "You" in my previous texts means anyone who are willing to do that.
If Behavior saw that DS was an issue because of the 5 seconds, they would have changed it 2 years ago, but they didn't. Because, DS in fact is healthy for the game, it makes tunneling killers think twice before doing something reckless. In fact, they changed it because they wanted to make it weaker, so killers tunneling and camping could finally kill a survivor without a proper punishment. They achieved their desired goal indeed, but at the detriment of a fair game play for survivors that was protected by DS after the conspicuous actions rework (that is absolutely fair).
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3221704#Comment_3221704
The point of DS is to be a second chance, like quite literally. I hate the term "second chance perks" but it's entire gimmick is just to reset a chase after being tunneled.
Also I think that you are forgetting that fact that we have multiple anti-tunnel perks now. BHVR is trying to limit how much power each one has since you can stack them and be damn-near impossible to kill.
That being said, I hate tunneling, I think it's boring for both sides, but even this feels like Im arguing with a brick wall.
DS was created to band-aid an unfun play style, likewise borrowed time was.
When it comes to multiple anti-tunneling perks, OoR can be denied if you are immediately hit after being unhooked. Therefore, a killer can chase you again, down you, and hook. That's what genuinely happens most of the time. You can use a combo Dead Hard, Out of Record, and DS to have something closer to old DS, but first, you would waste 3 perk slots for it, second, you could bleed out (deep wound) in a locker, third, you could be slugged or picked up and hit the ds. However, if the killer knows that you have DH, they will just wait to be close enough to hit you. DH is laughable to counter in comparison to the old one.
Also, the current feature against tunneling just feed up Save The Best For Last stacks, what can help killers to counter DH, OoR, and many other endurance perks because they don't stack (and they should never stack btw). But, the point is that those features, cause more damages than benefits.
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@Xord said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3221703#Comment_3221703
If your argument against pharmacy is chest locations, then it applies to old pharmacy too.
There is one guaranteed chest location in the basement, so that's already a free heal.
The perk being limited by chests is, by itself, a disadvantage, that's why it doesn't see much play. Personally, I only play pharmacy if I'm playing with friends, cause I can tell them not to open chests.
Now comparing any perk to CoH, which is still completely overpowered, isn't exactly fair.
No, my friend, my argument about pharmacist is that you could get a first aid medkit one time per trial without being injured. That would be good to get ready for action later on the match. Do you get me?
I mean, previously, you could, at the beginning of the trial, get a green medkit leave in a safe spot (avoid Franklin's demise), and use as needed. Now, you MUST be injured to get one. It is very risky to search a chess while injured specially in the basement. You could throw an entire match for doing it.
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@Xord said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3221698#Comment_3221698
Yeah, but the point of DS is to be a nuclear weapon.
It's not meant to be actually used. It's meant to say "If you tunnel, you'll get a fair price".
the stun could be 30 seconds long it wouldn't be stronger than if it was 10 because killers just would never tunnel.
I see you, brother. That's why it was created, to make people scared to play in a cheap and harassing way.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3221691#Comment_3221691
Again, fixing the animation to drop survivors almost instantly creates 3-2.5 seconds of time. Provided a Haste buff and you should get the same amount of distance.
You need to keep in mind that 5 second stuns really, really hurt low-tier killers as they are more pressed for time and pressure in comparison to high-tier killers.
If they are more hurt by it, just don't pick up survivors. No one, literally, NO ONE forces you to pick up a survivor that is playing aggressive or in a locker. Just hit them and move one. Get the rescuer instead. The slugged survivor will not do gens, and the rescuers will be chased. It means that only 2 survivors are Probably doing gens (some people are blessing totems, doing chests, etc).
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@Xord said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3220587#Comment_3220587
Pharmacy got a huge buff though? It now works as many times as there are chests in the map.
And if you're not injured, you shouldn't be looking for chests anyway. Do gens, not chests!
I don't see as a buff because of I am injured, the last place to search for something is in a chest because most of the time I don't know their location. There is another perk that reveals it's locations, but it is another perk slot wasted when I could run Circle of healing and do it just using one slot.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3221678#Comment_3221678
AGAIN, re-read what I put.
Actually, you know what, since you keep on missing the main point that I made. Ill just spell it out for ya. "Is for the animation to be faster so the survivor has more time to move around", basically, what Im getting at is that the stun duration is not the issue, the animation is the issue.
The animation for DS is way too long and the survivor does not make any amount of distance because of the animation. If the survivor was dropped off the killer's back quicker, AND gain a Haste buff during that time, then DS would be in a better spot but would not absolutely destroy low-tier killers since the distance gained would be the same as before.
There is actually a long history behind DS and the 3 second stun duration was a long-overdue promise BHVR made a long time ago, but with it they forgot to fix the animation since the old DS animation was intended to be way quicker than it is now.
First of all, as I previously stated in my previous post
@ArthurVeloso said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3220678#Comment_3220678
Your claims about risk and reward are flawed because the "reward" (1.5 to walk/run away from the killer) is not enough to reach a window.
If it was used as an aggressive perk for some players, it is on them. Also, people against DS just purposefully ignore the fact that almost any perk can be used "aggressively" in a game play, like prove thyself in a gen rush build, head on and flash bang in a stun build, blastmine + repressed alliance in a gen prank build.
Also, I used to play killer (clown main), and I never complained about DS because I knew that perk is mostly used against tunneling. If someone was playing aggressive, I would just hit them and leave them on the ground (slug). I mean, come on! If you had DS before that nerf you couldn't anything else that could contribute for the progress of the game. If you touch the gen, it's gone. If you touch a totem, it is gone. If you heal someone, it's gone. That's fair, and enough to keep the perk balanced.
What Behavior did was to completely make the perk weaker than premonition. You just slap the killer with a plastic glove and run 2 meters away just to get downed in 1 second.
The animation is ONE of the problems. However, you are too much biased to even read the first sentence of my text. But, it okay, I understand your situation.
When it comes to the possibility of the animation being faster, of course that seems a good idea. However, how would you do that if the skill-check starts WITH the animation itself?
Another matter, doing this feature, would not fix the issue of some killers counter this perk like nurse with her blinks, blights with his special attack, deathslingers with their weapons, tricksters with their knives, huntresses with their hatches, Demogorgon with their shreds, clown with their bottles, nightmare with their pulls of blood, Wesker with his dash, artists with the crows, etc. If you watched the video that someone brought to the discussion about the 3 second stun for every killer, you would be able to notice how bad designed it is.
About the haste in conjunction with the faster animation, it doesn't feel that will solve the problem presented above. It will just make it happen quicker.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3220589#Comment_3220589
DH validation for killer back then is same (and for exactly the same reason) as survivor using DH right now. If you get killer with ping, you don't have DH. That's why I refuse to use the perk (well I play in EU so russians are likely to connect. Sometimes even middle-east. I presume this is much better for US).
Also the game is not in a good spot. 39% escape rate means it's killer's fiesta. Not a good spot to be in.
Exactly. This game is going towards a distressful and unfair gameplay to survivors. Even the 100% bloody points is not worthy the stress and distaste to even try to escape at least one time.
Some YouTubers are highlighting this matter like her:
https://youtu.be/PK_A6S7410I -
@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3221667#Comment_3221667
Re-read what I put carefully. :)
I reread and I maintain my disagreement. The haste is absolutely insignificant if a nurse can blink immediately afterwards, if a blight can use his power immediately afterwards, if deathslingers can shot immediately afterwards, if Demogorgon can shred immediately afterwards, if huntresses can throw a hatch immediately afterwards, if trickster can throw knives immediately afterwards, if clown can throw a bottle and force a medium vault immediately afterwards.
Try again.
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https://youtu.be/PK_A6S7410I
This YouTuber further explains, among other perk changes, the DS terrible nerf.
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#shorts all my links: https://linktr.ee/jamieisstrange
This video makes evident the necessity to change the perk.
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@Xord said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3221314#Comment_3221314
Don'ty even answer to this guy, he is a known camper/tunneler around here, makes posts complaining about how changes makes it difficult to tunnel and camp.
He even once said "but survivors are tunneling generators"... not really worth your time.
I mean, someone has to do the job to expose the truth to the people in this forum, so at least we will discuss about it, and probably solve the problem.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
Ive said this before on the forums, and Ill say it again since it is applicable. Decisive Strike does not need a stun duration increase to 4-5 seconds.
The only things that should be changed about DS is for the animation to be faster so the survivor has more time to move around and that the survivor needs a short Haste buff to get to a better area.
I disagree, even with the speed haste killers such as nurse can catch you vaulting a window or before reaching a pallet.
The ONLY exception is in this case:
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That's right! Decisive Strike was just fine before the update, now, it is just a water pistol in a real time war.
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Due to the fact that I agree that Sadako needs buff in correlation with a nerf to the body block issue, I am changing the name of this discussion.
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@Smeagolthevile said:
I love the argument that people keep proposing here
'its balanced' 'its not a problem'
What is your metric for 'a problem' because you have 2 pages here of people saying that it is a problem. Just because YOU doesn't think its a problem, doesnt mean its not.
I very much like the idea of giving it more requirements, maybe make someone the obsession, and letting you insta mori them after first hook, or something like that. But EVERY SURVIVOR IN THE MATCH?! Especially for free.
Also to the 'but its a rare addon' if you main Myers, thats who you put your BP into, then your going to have all of the addons you want. My killer main is Pig, I love the 'you can see survivors through walls when stealthing' addon, its very rare, I have a bunch of them because thats who all my killer BP goes into.
ALSO rarity doesn't matter when you have a large pool of people playing the game, it may be rare for one player to have a ton, but its not rare for alot of players to have one or two. Every day I have played over the last week has had atleast one match w/ the insta kill myers.
Get them girl!!!
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@Smeagolthevile said:
I know people wont agree with me, but myers being able to built to tier 3 and then just istantly killing someone that hasent even been hooked yet, let alone multiple people, is a bad mechanic. Its unfun and unfair. At best its a waste of time for the survivors, having to lose their time and their addons to such garbage.
..
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3221434#Comment_3221434
Or how about we buff her and fix this feature?
Yes, Pig is a good example of why this is needed, otherwise you reduce a bottom tier killer to near unplayable status.
Yes, I am 100% down to buff her and fixing this feature. Sadako, after fixing this, could have the two brown add-ons as basekit. So, it would be easier to mind game.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3221438#Comment_3221438
That indeed was an exploit. The difference here is that they introduced a new game mechanic that had not been tested before. It was not something relating to the killer and his power and addons interacting with each other but more so with a completely new mechanic being introduced to the game. Sadako got specific addons and a passive ability that were tested on the PTB that incentivise this kind of play style. And again this Legion strat basically had no counterplay while you can still counter Sadako. In this thread alone there is enough advise on how to do that. That was btw the reason they changed the Pig's power. Because there was nothing you could do about it as it was basically allowing a killer to go afk after 30s and still get some kills without playing the game.
Sadako release brought a new mechanic to the game, the condemned and video tape actions. However, the way they designed it is so weird that she is weak most of the time, unless people exploit an mechanic like legion in the past.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
I dunno, this seems like a high risk, hit or miss at best tactic. I play a lot of Sadako, and I wouldn't even attempt it. I've never seen this attempted, either. Pinning down the right TV is so unscientific, and just camping one is gonna get you rinsed far more often than not. Not to mention that condemnation progresses really, really slowly if you don't force interactions of some type, and that once the surv is condemned, you're still going to have to go to them, which means you have to leave the TV.
I don't think this is dangerous enough to warrant any attention, certainly nowhere near the level of AFK Pig.
I understand you point, but take a look on the video that I linked here, and you will understand what I said.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3221420#Comment_3221420
"Exploit" would mean it's not intended. But since they designed Sadako and her addons specifically in this way I don't believe that. The more I think about it the more sense it makes that this actually is the way Sadako should be played. Her condemned status effect is useless in any other setup and her power won't help with M1 killer gameplay at all. So what else can you do?
"Not intended because she was designed like that" is just an excuse for something indefensible. Legion could moonwalk to get someone down in the past, and it was patched. So, it should follow the same fate.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3220321#Comment_3220321
No, it's not.
She got a buff. A pretty nice one, actually.
I'm completely in favor of buffing Sadako.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3220390#Comment_3220390
Because it...sort of is.
She feels like an early beta version of Dredge.
Without this strategy, unless you're on a very small map, Condemn may as well be meaningless.
She's also the only remaining killer with a mandatory brown addon.
Firstly, it is because they removed the mandatory action to search the last box to avoid the box camping.
Second, she needs to have this feature addressed before any buff.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3221324#Comment_3221324
This is more fair than any other killer camping you to death or tunneling you out of the game. And that is more fair than going against squads that literally win the game in under 4 minutes by the power of toolboxes and Prove Thyself. Nah mate. You see an unfair advantage where everyone else sees a sad little girl that honestly would rather go back in the well than getting a nerf. How exactly do you expect Sadako to be played? Running after a survivor like a little puppy desperate for some quality time in the basement is more Bubba's thing. Running through survivors in the blink of an eye while leaving them on the ground is more of a Blight thing. The point is: It's her ONE AND ONLY niche. In a normal game she can't compete. She doesn't have one of those special abilities that allow her to do things efficient or slow down survivors or help her in chase. Until something like this is added I can only assume that this Condemned play style is the way BHVR imagined her to be played. Nerfing the arguably weakest killer in the game is never a good idea.
The name of it is tunneling a player to death by exploitation of a game feature, and, yes, that problematic.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3221350#Comment_3221350
I feel like good survivor play stands out more now than ever. The previous surv meta rewarded mediocre surv play as much if not more than you're saying the current meta rewards poor killer play. The primary driver of all of this surv angst is that players who were mediocre are no longer competitive at their previous MMR. The wheat has been separated from the chaff, and the chaff who thought they were wheat aren't taking that well.
As far as killer (and overall) balance as it relates to slowdown goes, the real villain here is the constant: horrible map design.
What drives the slowdown meta is how wildly different the killer experience can be depending on the combo of killer and map. If you could play a low mobility killer and have map certainty, people wouldn't run slowdown so much. But since you're just as likely to get Red Forest as Dead Dawg, you run those slowdowns every time (unless you are playing a high tier killer, in which case you're either a jerk or not very good).
So long as huge maps and low mobility killers coexist, stacked slowdown is gonna be a thing. It has to be.
Fact of the matter is that for many killers, stacked slowdown is almost necessary. As for the current meta, Eruption is a bit much (and will no doubt be nerfed), but other than that to me it feels like six of one, half a dozen of the other with CoB/Overcharge/PR, etc. compared to Ruin/Undying/Pop, etc.
One thing that actually sucks from the killer side is that the new slowdown meta is now mostly dependent on kicking gens, which is boring and inefficient. And in some cases, it has benefitted me as a surv, when a killer will break chase with me to kick some nearby gen, which happens a surprising amount where it almost never used to.
Are some killers leaning hard on 3 (sometimes 4) stacked slowdown perks? Sure. But if a team can't beat a mid-low tier killer who has dedicated all their perks slots to slowdown, maybe they should do a little self examination in addition to condemning the killer meta.
I just would like to point out to your argument about how different perks affects different killers.
Yes, you are right that a full slowdown build in certain killers can be detrimental for their power mechanic.
However, you need to realize that after the 6.1.0 update, killers got massive buffs, specially with slowdown perks, and basekit features (kick gens, 2 stacks of stbfl, pallet, door break, etc). On the other hand, survivors got a huge nerf with their anti-tunneling perks.
The point is the conversation is that the game seems unplayable for most of the survivors after this update, and it can be proven by the statistics of +60% kill rates for killers. I mean, what is the point for me, a casual player that plays barely 6 hours a week, but buy all the chapters, to spend my time doing gens that will take an eternity to be completed because of those slowdown perks + chasing times reduced. I mean, it forces me to play try hard every time, and some times I stop and reflect, will I really get angry/upset/nervous because of a game during my free time? Of course no, so I am just avoiding playing the game more and more because I cannot chill in a match anymore because I will have only around 36% of chance to survive. That's insane.
The results of it is the decrease of the survivor player base over the time.
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@dspaceman20 said:
I'm curious of other people current survivor builds right now. I sorta want to try new things
Prove thyself + lithe + dejavu + resilience
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3220746#Comment_3220746
Something about this just radiates a raw energy that cannot be met.
😂😂😂😂😂
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@Carmina_is_cute said:
I say "gg [killer]" when I feel like my solo q team deserved losing.
LMAO, yes.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I definitely agree that 6.1 didn't change the meta at all. If I pain my car a different color, I still have the same car. The killer meta is still to stack as much slowdown as possible. The perks just have different names now and function a little differently. And I greatly preferred the previous killer slowdowns to the current ones. I think the new killer slowdowns are awful from a gameplay perspective. I struggle to fathom how the CoB/Overcharge/Eruption made it out of playtesting.
I just don't like the direction the game seems to be going. The devs seem to be saying "Hey, it's ok if you're terrible at the game relative to your opponent. You're the power role. Just stack more slowdowns and higher tier add ons." It feels like good play on the survivor side has been devalued by a large margin. You can do all the right things as a team and it just doesn't matter a lot of times since 6.1 because the killer has an absolutely ridiculous slowdown stack.
I'm of the opinion that it's never a good move to balance around weaker players. It wasn't healthy when survivors had instaheals+E key+Mettle of Man. It's not healthy now when killers need zero game sense whatsoever because they can be bailed out by 4 overtuned slowdowns. Were your top killers struggling pre-6.1? I wager that they weren't.
Here you are your trophy, my dude!
I totally agree with you.
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@RavenBirb said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/349749/nerf-sadako
She actually needs a buff shes so weak lmao like why would you say she needs a nerf? lol
I am down for a buff, if that feature is properly addressed. She could expose survivors when they are condemned (don't show their location tho), but only mori them if they are dead on hook (like pyramid head).
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@My_Aespa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3221328#Comment_3221328
It definitely shouldn't, I'd ask if it was reportable but it's not like reporting does anything anyway. I don't think it's reportable though since the trap does eventually go off and the game ends or you could be killed by Sadako by condemnation. It just sucks if it does happen.
I agree with you. I mean, it just need a slightly change in her mechanic. Nothing too much punitive.
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@Zeidoktor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3220386#Comment_3220386
But then we die in seven days!
..
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@johnlikesguns2 said:
The meta changed. New perks are used. And no. Off The Record didin't replace DH. Off The Record replaced DS. Cause DS is complete trash now. DH is still a very good perk.
I totally agree with you.
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@usesPython said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3220601#Comment_3220601
The point of Decisive Strike in the current meta is to reset deep wounds so that you can Dead Hard again while being tunnelled, if you're using it by itself as your only anti-tunnel perk you're doing it wrong
Decisive Strike was never designed for the purpose of "healing a deep wound status." It was to severely pushing players from tunneling and play recklessly. If you got more than 1 DS before the 6.1.0 and after the conspicuous actions stuff, you DESERVED to get it.
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@My_Aespa said:
That's a very unlikely situation to happen though. I've never had that happen to me, that just sounds like bad luck.
Yeah, maybe. I don't know. I don't like the idea of the killer body blocking something like Pig or sadako can do to build up a way to kill you faster. I mean, I know that this is rare, but it should not happen.
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@TeabaggingGhostface said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3220392#Comment_3220392
All I'm hearing from you is that you want nurse to be buffed
Hahaha no, nurse should be rework for console players and nerfed her double range add-ons