AngyKiller
AngyKiller
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@SilentShepherd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2802177#Comment_2802177
No. I like this game and want to see it improve and will help for free by spending my time on forums.
Demanding nerfs because you don't like a Killer does not improve the game for anyone but you.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801990#Comment_2801990
While I tend to be more on the side of sticking with a match until the very end, you're being pretty unrealistic with expectations (especially with your expectation of other people's expectations, ironically.)
Again, most people don't think a situation like 8 hooks 0 kills all gens done is a done game. Same do, some don't. Likewise, some people think 5 gens done in a 1v3 is winnable. Either match could have either side win, but the expectation of victory is going to differ from person to person.
True but I'm pointing out that people are putting their personal beliefs onto NoED, and then claiming it's flawed for not following their own, personal, subjective rules.
I don't care if someone thinks 'The game is lost when 5 gens pop'; them thinking that does NOT mean NoED is flawed or 'rewards losing'.
But instead, people believe this, then scream it on the forums so loudly that OTHERS believe it, and then I get treated like ######### in-game if I use NoED, even if it never pops. And when people's subjective, personal views of the game are used as an excuse to treat other people like #########; it's a problem. THAT is why I always smack down the 'basically lost' fallacy; it's not true. People can think it all they damn day, but when they start to demand the game be balanced around a PERSONAL viewpoint, and treat others like garbage for not following their PERSONAL rules; they need to be metaphorically slapped down.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801820#Comment_2801820
8 hooks with 0 gens done and 5 gens done with 0 hooks are equally bad extremes of "its not over yet, but it might as well be." People's threshold for hope in the remainder of the game pretty much always falls somewhere in the middle, but usually not at either extreme.
It's not over until it's over. I mean, imagine if sports teams played like people here demand the 'other side' play; The Falcon's 'basically won' in Super Bowl 51 with a 28-3 lead in the 4th quarter. Instead, the Pats turned it into a 34-28 win.
This is why the 'basically already lost' argument is bullshit; No one has lost until the match is over, or they give up. Survivors are demanding Killers GIVE UP when 5 gens pop, and then saying this is a valid rule that NoED breaks. It's stupid and entitled.
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@dictep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801872#Comment_2801872
Because a 1 hit 119% killer with few pallets, if any, is insane
Here's a counter for NoED: Do. Bones.
What's insane is that Survivors will adamantly:
- Claim doing 5 bones amongst 4 Survivors is impossible.
- Flat-out ignore that you only need to do 1 bone in the end-game.
- Claim a killer can somehow camp the hook, camp NoED, AND chase Survivors all over the map, all at the same time.
It's an end-game perk; it should be strong. The Killer is planning for 5 gens to pop and running THREE DAMN PERKS the entire match. But Survivors flat out refuse to accept anything short of deleting NoED because they're too gods damned lazy to get off gens for 60 seconds.
Hell, some Survivors have claimed getting off gens is what makes NoED OP. They basically admit that being forced to stop licking gens is unfair, because all they want to do is genrush and twerk out the exit.
NoED is fine. Every 'flaw' anyone has ever said is pure bullshit and/or just a flat-out lie based on the 'basically lost' fallacy.
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@dictep said:
easy, if a killer doesn’t kill anyone before egc and you have as surv more rhan 500 hours... he has noed. I don’t know how someone can think this is fair and why he is at such rank level
What does having 500 hours have to do with NoED? With your 'logic' (and I use the term very loosely); no perk should offer an advantge because if it beats someone with '500 hours'; it's OP.
Or does it only apply to NoED because you having this raging hate of it?
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801738#Comment_2801738
"losing" and "lost" is two different things.
You are pretty much losing if your ruin/undying popped and yet to find any survivors, but you aren't lost.
By that logic; Survivors are 'pretty much losing' when I hook someone for the first time, because it's one step closer to being Killed.
And Killers are 'pretty much losing' if 1 generator pops, because Survivors are 1 step closer to escaping.
Yet we don't balance around this idiocy, do we? So why do people think '5 gens popped! 🤪' is a valid argument while knowing 'One gen popped!' is not?
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@Faulds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801545#Comment_2801545
Corrupt is fine. Deadlock is fine. Tinkerer is fine. Etc. Why? Because, contrary to NOED, only a good killer can snowball from it.
NoED is fine, because only good Killers can snowball from it. Bad Killers still wont: Find Survivors, chase Survivors, mindgame loops, get hits, avoid pallet/flashlight saves, and hook.
It's like people invent this negative feedback loop 'Only bad Killers use NoED, therefore only bad Killers snowball from NoED, therefore NoED helps bad Killers' and completely throw away reality to happily parrot this idiocy as if it's actualy a fact instead of what it is: The insane ramblings of salty baby Survivors upset they lost.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801732#Comment_2801732
As a killer, I'm pretty sure I'm almost losing when gate is powered.
Then you're wrong. Congrats. You're personal view on winning and losing does not change how the game works.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801690#Comment_2801690
NOED activates only when you are about to lose/let survivors go, DH activates in all chases and is much stronger than NOED too.
NoED activates when Survivors have 2 more steps to escape; opening the exit gates & walking out them. The Killer is not 'about to lose' because he CANNOT lose until Survivors are literally off the map.
The exit gates could be OPEN, and the Killer has not lost yet. Because, UNTIL THE SURVIVORS PHYSICALLY LEAVE THE GODS DAMNED MAP, THE KILLER CAN STILL KILL THEM.
Do I need to say it any louder?
- The Killer has not 'basically lost' just because 5 gens pop. This is entitled Survivor whining creating a fake lose state.
- The Killer has not ACTUALLY lost until Survivors LEAVE THE MAP. The gates could be open & Survivors could be in the exit area; until they pass that exit LINE; the Killer can still kill them. He has not 'basically lost' or any other kind of lost.
- This mindset is the mindset of spoiled, entitled, whiny, baby-rage Survivors creating a lose condition, then claiming it's enforceable, and thus inventing a flaw with NoED that DOES NOT EXIST.
The. 👏 Killer. 👏 Has. 👏 Not. 👏 Lost. 👏 Just. 👏 Because. 👏 5. 👏 Gens. 👏 Pop. 👏
The. 👏 Killer. 👏 Has. 👏 Not. 👏 Lost. 👏 Just. 👏 Because. 👏 5. 👏 Gens. 👏 Pop. 👏
The. 👏 Killer. 👏 Has. 👏 Not. 👏 Lost. 👏 Just. 👏 Because. 👏 5. 👏 Gens. 👏 Pop. 👏
Keep repeating the above until you get that garbage 'Rewards losing! Derpy-derr!' mindset out of your head.
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@fulltonon said:
DH rewards both bad and good gameplay, unlike NOED which only rewards losing.
and this is the reason why DH is 1000x worse than NOED.
unlike NOED which only rewards losing
Show me where the rules state the Killer lost when 5 gens pop. Oh wait; you can't.
Stop with the bullshit 'ReWaRdS lOsInG 🤪🤪🤪' mentality. It's factually wrong. It's not an opinion. It's just wrong. And the sooner Survivors stop this idiocy, the sooner they can stop whining about a perk that has no problems with it other than the garbage they invent to stomp their little feet and scream about like spoiled toddlers.
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Yes, let's take away what makes him Different from Billy because Survivors don't want to do complicated things like 'Don't group up'.
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Complains about a game mechanic.
Calls the opposing side 'cry babies' for not wanting it changed.
Self awareness: 0
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@SimplyPixelated06 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2800881#Comment_2800881
But it shouldn't be impossible to unhook someone if its basement trapper or basement bubba.
Why? If the Survivor got downed by the basement; The Killer's place of power; why should you get an unhook?
I'll say it again; The basement is the ONE SPOT on the map that's supposed to favor the Killer. Why should unhooking be easy if the Killer is there? Because Survivors want it?
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Survivors can save from multiple angles. What more do you want? The Killer can't block every angle, so clearly you did something wrong.
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And your point is?
You lost connection. The game has no idea why. It can't know why. No programming created can know WHY you disconnected because...you know; you no longer are there to send data to the server. 🤷♂️
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The basement is the Killer's source of power; it SHOULD be oppressive. Survivors SHOULD be walking into a death-trap if the Killer is down there.
No, it does not need 2 entrances just so Survivors can loop the Killer in the ONE SPOT that is supposed to favor him.
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I camp because 12 hooking is literally impossible unless I"m a god player (I'm not) or I'm playing a top-tier Killer (I don't).
I also camp because Survivors love to hide near the hook to get an unhook ASAP. Why should I be punished by my prey moving away? I'm not the one making a bad play; why should Survivor gets rewarded with an easier unhook?
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@AetherBytes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2800688#Comment_2800688
They pressed DC in the pause menu. They didn't lose connection or alt-f4
That lets them go to the end game chat? Huh. Good to know.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2800851#Comment_2800851
This were just some brainstorming idea and I sure got overboard with it, but at least some few percentage buffs and debuffs could be implemented? Of course just as long as one side is clearly winning. And tbf, we already have a penalty for playing too well: the sweaty heights of MMR.
I know but I still think it's not for this game. I mean, not all games HAVE a catch-up mechanic.
Hell, I really only think some racers do. I can't think of an FPS, RTS, TBS, or 4X game that has a catch-up mechanic.
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All Survivor DCs should count as Hooks and Sacrifices, for the purpose of any perks, BP, achievements, and challenges.
Just as Killer DCs should count as escapes for the purpose of any BP, achievements, and challenges.
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Because no one would like to lose due to a mechanic saying 'You're playing too well' and rewarding their opponent, and then that snowballing.
Imagine if I had 2 people slugged, 1 on hook, and 1 on my shoulders, and the game said 'Na, fam.' and gave the 2 slugged Adrenalin, they get up, unhook the 1, and now I have 1 hooked and 3 running around. There goes my sure win, not because of Survivor skill, or me making a mistake, but because the game decided 'Here's a free pick-me-up for being out-played'.
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One time I patrolled a 3 Gen; the 3 remaining Survivors DC'd, yet still ended up in end-game chat (How do they DO THAT!?).
They said the 3-Gen was my fault & I should have given up a generator. When I said 'How do I give you ONE gen? You could have split up and done all 3!' the reply was 'That's your problem.' 🙃
So, from what I got from that was:
- It's the Killer's duty to give up a 3-Gen.
- If Survivors abuse this to do more than 1 gen; that's the Killer's problem to fix. Without chasing them off gens, of course.
This is one of many reasons I stopped being a polite Killer. 😄
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@JonahsTablet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2800250#Comment_2800250
If the match is literally hopeless, like there is no possible way in which I can win, I don't see why there shouldn't be an option to forfeit, what am I supposed to do on RPD with Clown vs a coordinated SWF? Of course, you have to set parameters, but if you meet a certain quota like "You have no kills and less than 4 hooks with 1 gen left" then you can forfeit.
You play until you lose. Nowhere does the game say 'Don't quit, unless you're not winning, because losing is no fun.' 🙄
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And then matches never play through, as Killers use the 'give up button' every time they start to lose.
Bad idea. If you can't accept that you will sometime lose, as a Survivor or Killer; don't play a PvP game.
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Freddy has the SAME LUNGE as every Killer. Let me see if I can explain it:
Trapper is 8 feet tall, with arms proportionate to his body. So if he lunges, like, 5 feet; he can do it by taking 1 step forward, because his arms are covering 4 feet of the 5 feet.
Freddy is smol, with smol arms. If he lunges 5 feet; he has to leap forward and cover the 3 feet his arms don't reach.
Result: Both are lunging the same distance; 5 feet. But Freddy has to leap forwards, while Trapper can take 1 step. So it looks like Freddy is covering more distance.
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@dictep said:
i”m willing to see the noed nerf so these trash noed killers do 0-1 kills until they get the lowest mmr. And about dh, I’ve been using overcome for a week, and I’m so sorry for those poor m1 killers when they nerf dh. Overcome is activated if the killer hit you and you have bt, and if devs are thinking about make bt basekit, overcome would be the new meta for sure
Sorry. NoED is sticking around so trash baby Survivors keep dying because they're too lazy to clear totems.
The salt from no-skill Survivors storming the forums to screech that NoED should be removed because 'Something, something, free kills' and 'Whaaa! Whaaa! Basically lost already!' has seasoned my food for years.
Salty like a 🥨
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@NoOneKnowsNova said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2799654#Comment_2799654
If everyone did totems in solo queue then we would see a higher kill rate without a doubt. The killer gains a lot of pressure if survivors not only have to go around cleansing the totems, but also figuring out if their team also did the totems and where they did them.
In a swf you can just call out "I did a totem in the corner of the map" and everyone knows that they don't have to go there. In solo queue, you have to check there regardless unless you had seen them do a totem there earlier. Combine this with the fact you have to do this another 4 times and it shows how much time is wasted.
And yeh just presume I'm a "survivor", the presumption is wrong but good on you for guessing.
Or, and hear me out; if everyone pulled their weight & did totems as they find them; then you would not have to worry if your SoloQ teammates did totems.
But as I've said; I'm for a totem counter if you're not in a SWF. Another good mechanic to help SoloQs approach SWF.
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2799822#Comment_2799822
When you can stop that before it ever begins yes how much easier do you want it?
They would prefer NoED not exist, so they never have to leave gens. But according to lazy Survivors; Killers are 'unreasonable' for pointing out how lazy Survivors are. 🙃
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@dictep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2799831#Comment_2799831
My cat can kill with noed, sorry
Then your cat is better than you are. Sorry.
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@dictep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2799654#Comment_2799654
When devs nerf noed you would need to do kills :)
Fun fact for you: Killing with NoED is still killing. Survivor temper-tantrums & fake rules don't actually change the rules of the game. 🤡
Do bones, lazy Survivor main.
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@Faulds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2799724#Comment_2799724
I was mostly trying to say that NOED defenders can't be reasoned with, and are a waste of time. (Like, look at the post above mine).
And I'm saying Survivor whiners can't be reasoned with, because NoED is fine.
Survivors being lazy babies does not make them right, and Killers defending a perfectly fine perk does not mean they are wrong. Amazing how you're wrong, and can't understand that simple fact!
Your reply screams 'I refuse to admit I'm wrong, and will blame everyone who disagrees with me as being 'unreasonable'. But I'm totally reasonable, because I'm me.' 🤡
NoED is fine. Do bones. Stop being a lazy Survivor main.
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- Why shoudl the Killer be denied a match just because 1 baby Survivor ragequit?
- Why should the other Survivor's be denied a match just because 1 baby Survivor ragequit?
No.
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@Faulds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2799707#Comment_2799707
Even with good teammates. Without comms. Survivors have to break five totems. Or break the NOED in endgame, that have more chance to spawn in a good spot. But apparently, it is the survivors that ask for hand holding. LMAO. I'd stop trying to reason with NOED defenders if i were you. They don't reason straight. If they ever change NOED, it'd be as good as DS/ Keys/ Moris reworks; and, oh my god, did it improve my experience of the game.
I love how you sit there and claim 'break 5 totems' and 'Or break 1 totem in end game' is apparently unreasonable.
Yes; You're being lazy. No: Killers are not the entitled ones for pointing out the flaws in Survivor whining.
I'd stop trying to reason with NOED defenders if i were you. They don't reason straight
Says the babies whining 'But 4 people doing 5 totems is TOO HARRRRRD! WHAAAAA! Nerf NoED!'
Do bones, lazy Survivor. Do bones. 🤡
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@deKlaw_04 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2799694#Comment_2799694
Not really asking for hand holding just good teammates. I run detectives hunch and if I’m the only one that constantly gets chased, no one on the team is gonna do a single totem. I have had so many matches like that.
Other people ARE asking for hand holding; They want NoED changed because they don't have teammates that will cleanse totems.
They're, literally, asking for the perk to be changed/nerfed because they don't want to do bones instead of getting better and doing freaking bones.
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@deKlaw_04 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2799654#Comment_2799654
“If everyone just did totems” you expect way to much out of solo que. It’s a team game yet no one helps
That's not NoED's fault. You don't take away Killer power just because Survivors are lazy & want hand-holding.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2799570#Comment_2799570
Its actually quite funny how every single time the devs came up with a solution to camping, some survivors abused it in a unintended way so the devs didn´t implement it. Its almost like deep down they don´t want a solution.
Survivors WANT a solution; they just prefer one where they either 1. Get free unhooks, or 2. Can at-will punish Killers with an abuseable mechanic.
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@Tiufal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2799564#Comment_2799564
Doing totems costs pretty much time not doing a gen to even get to the point where NOED activates. Also wit randoms you cant yjust do totems, and you cant coordinate with them doing totems at all. But i guess there will come some more "wise posts" from you on that, even though it doesnt relate to the OP.
Doing totems costs pretty much time not doing a gen to even get to the point where NOED activates
That's, literally, the point? Either you do totems, or you speedrun gens & get punished. Holy hell; why do people keep thinking THE POINT is a flaw? Probably because they don't want to stop doing gens.
Also wit randoms you cant yjust do totems, and you cant coordinate with them doing totems at all
If everyone JUST DID TOTEMS; being with randos would not matter. What TF do you want? Totems to self-cleanse unless everyone is in a SWF?
@NoOneKnowsNova said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2799564#Comment_2799564
I’ll agree with the NoeD part for swf, however for solo queue I don’t think this is a lie at all.
Again; if everyone would just do totems as they see them; being in a SWF or solo would not change anything.
But Survivors want to stomp and scream and insist NoED is impossible to counter for SoloQs because they want to sit in their comfy SWF with 16 META perks and lick gens until they t-bag out the exit, and NoED ruins that. So clearly NoED is impossibly and 'Someone think of the SoloQ!'
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2799371#Comment_2799371
Easy, no camping penalties apply once all five generators are repaired.
No camping penalties should apply at all, ever, since Survivors will abuse them.
Source: There were camping penalties. Survivors abused them every time.
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Oh look, more 'If you don't play the way I demand, I'm going to shame you' BS. Good thing your opinion means nothing. 🤡
@Tiufal said:
Nah. Be honest, DH only shines if you know how to use it while NOED is just there and saves your ass for no input.
Actually NoED saves your ass if Survivors don't use their ability to cleanse totems. IE: Survivor input. Really wish people would stop lying about NoED.
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'The Killer did something I, subjectively, don't like. I hope, one day, the developers will remove all Killer agency and turn them into a bot so they don't do anything I don't like.' 🤡
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How long do you think the devs will 'look at' Circle of OP?
6 months? 12 months? Until the numbers show the Survivors are bored of using it, so they can nerf it without angering them? Need to make sure everyone gets to use the OP toy for as long as possible!
It's so funny that Killer perks and powers get gutted if they over-perform, but Survivor OP perks get 'looked at'. And nerfs are flat-out lies or couched in such a way as to trick Killers. (It got a 25% nerf! So stop whining, Killers! Just...ignore that that means 4 seconds. Because 25% sounds, like, super-big!)
They may as well just say 'Survivors spend more money, so we let them keep OP perks. Suck it up, Killers'.
And before someone says 'Buh they're nerfing Boil OPver!' Yeah; because it can literally be exploited to be immune to hooking, and changing the perk is easier than changing every map, and because they know Survivors with rage over the game turning into a slug-fest to counter Boil OPver. Of course, Survivors will bring Circle of OP, and Boil OPver, and RPD offerings, and then still blame Killers for slugging.
Kind of like how some will bring 4 meta perks each, while playing in a 4-man SWF, and cheat using voice comms, then whine that the killer 'sweats for a 4K 🤪' and screech that the Killer should 'be happy with a 3K'.
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@JonahsTablet said:
She will have anti-loop + some traversal/utility secondary power. The sooner we accept this, the better. You can screenshot this comment and if it doesn't hold up, Jonah may throw me away.
The only useful Killers are anti-loop for a good reason. WHenever someone says 'Why don't you make a Killer that's not anti-loop?', they're basically saying 'Why don't you make a Killer we can loop for 5 gens & leave?'
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2798474#Comment_2798474
You seem to be ignoring that, for NoED to BE NoED; it needs to be UNKNOWN, so Survivors can make mistakes.
Instead, you demand Survivors have their hands held with yet ANOTHER bullshit mechanic, and the ability to make mistake involving NoED MUST be removed, because Survivors making mistakes the Killer can use is bad, apparently?
This is the exact point.
Objectively, PURELY objectively, undeniably, doing five totems is the bad choice unless the killer is so absolutely garbo that the survivors have all the time in the world.
And you are labelling it as 'the survivors making mistakes'.
It's NOT a mistake. It's just that the counterplay to NOED is such an absolute dumpsterfire tier of risk/reward ratio that it is just flat out tactically bad decision-making to commit to it. But SOMEHOW, you arrive at the conclusion that 'the survivors made a mistake'.
That is the part that needs to go. It needs to ACTUALLY be a mistake if the survivors let it pop, and you can't have that happen if there's a very real chance that the counterplay has you torpedoing your own team for literally zero reward.
It can't be a gamble.
doing five totems is the bad choice unless the killer is so absolutely garbo that the survivors have all the time in the world.
Or, and the one thing you and every Survivor ignores; you can keep an eye on totems and see if one lights up. Then, you only have to do ONE totem! Wow!
But you, and every Survivor, keep acting like this idea does not exist and all 4 Survivors are expecting to do 5 totems each. Because that sounds so much harder than 'Do 1 totem each, plus 1 more.' or 'Keep an eye on totems & see if one lights up'.
Funny thing is; Survivors 'dont have time to do 5 totems', ever, but sure as hell have time to re-bless totems 50000000 times to get Circle of Healing to work. Almost like it's a lie to demand changes/nerfs to NoED instead of getting off of gens to counter a Killer perk.
Face it; your idea ruins NoED, and it's designed to ruin NoED. You're making the same bad faith argument of 'Doing 5 totems is SOOO HARD!' as if one person has to do all 5. Because it's easier to cry to nerf NoED while lying that it's 'For the health of the game' instead of getting off gens when you see a totem.
NoED is fine. Get off gens. It does not need a change or lazy-arse hand-holding nerf that benefits Survivors under the same bullshit warcry every Survivor uses 'It's for the health of the game!'. 99% of the time; 'The health of the game' = 'The enjoyment of Survivors'.
NoED is fine. Do bones. Survivors don't deserve to know it exists just because they want the game to spoon-feed them information they're too lazy to think about.
The only part I agree with, with a caveat: Anyone NOT in an SWF should have a totem count on screen. Or have one pop up when they clean a totem. This way, they know if totems have been worked on when they contribute to totems being worked on.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2798411#Comment_2798411
But then the 'entire point' -isn't- to pull survivors off of gens, is it?
Sure, if you want to keep your instadowns, it won't fix it, but it would at least be fair. What you are proposing is a combination of both: You want it to continue having an unfair counterplay -in addition- to a really strong effect if/when it pops.
You want it to stay a gamble, so that killers can benefit from the perk -without having to equip it-.
If you can't understand this; either you should not be talking about perk balance, or you're ignoring it to fit your arguments.
I absolutely understand the impact. Point is: I don't care. And two posts ago, neither did you, because you described the perk's 'entire point' as being 'to get survivors OFF GENS'.
Have it be a hex perk for instadowns and speed boost? Fine.
Have it be a slowdown perk on par with a permanently maxed out Thanatophobia? Fine.
Driving its counterplay on RNG and creating a hardline 'damned if you do, damned if you don't? Not fine.
You want it to be a gamble, so it can stay out of survivor control, which feeds back to my original argument about how this forum treats killer autonomy vs. survivor autonomy.
You want it to stay a gamble, so that killers can benefit from the perk -without having to equip it-.
What? I'm the one saying it should NOT be base-kit, because that ruins now knowing if the Killer has it or not! I'm the one wanting it to stay a perk!
You said:
the perk would be considerably more fair if it and a totem counter were baseline
Implying you want NoED to be baseline alongside a count of totems still in a match.
I don't. Making NoED baseline means it never sees end-game, because Survivors will ALWAYS know it exists. Survivors won't pop the 5th gen until they're sure all totems have popped. At that point; what is the point of NoED's power? If it can't be used; why does it exist as it does?
At that point; you could remove it and just say 'All 5 totems must be cleansed along with 5 gens done, or Survivors are Exposed', because NoED would NEVER pop.
You seem to be ignoring that, for NoED to BE NoED; it needs to be UNKNOWN, so Survivors can make mistakes.
Instead, you demand Survivors have their hands held with yet ANOTHER bullshit mechanic, and the ability to make mistake involving NoED MUST be removed, because Survivors making mistakes the Killer can use is bad, apparently?
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2798352#Comment_2798352
"The ENTIRE POINT of the perk is to get Survivors OFF OF GENS."
"If It and a totem counter were baseline; It would NEVER see endgame play. Ever."
So you're saying it would succeed at the thing that is, according to you, 'its entire point', and you somehow also paint this as a bad thing.
The 'bad thing' is that it's EFFECT would be useless. May as well rewrite the perk to say 'Survivors can't open the exit gates unless they cleanse all 5 gens'. Because it's effect would be non-existent, and only exist as a big enough threat to force Survivors to do bones.
Give SOloQ a totem counter. I agree with this.
But NoED HAS to stay an unknown threat or else it counters itself. It cannot be a known factor in every match, or Survivors would know to totem hunt before popping that 5th gen. If you can't understand this; either you should not be talking about perk balance, or you're ignoring it to fit your arguments.
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...What?
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2798327#Comment_2798327
I mean, considering that it literally tells you Boil Over is active and it being 50% of the current wiggle progress would still prevent people from running up to a certain spot and dying over and over to get a bunch of wiggle progress, yes, getting 50% of the wiggle progress would be fine.
Boil Over isn't a reliable perk anyway (outside of a couple of now fixed spots), if you ignore the big red horse icon and decide to jump off of a height after 8 seconds of carrying (which is how long it'd take to be able to match the current 25% wiggle bonus), then that's kind of on you.
Sure, if you ignore that the 75% wriggle effect can FORCE the Killer off a pebble high enough to make the boost come into effect.
50% is way too much. That's just stating 'I want to never be hooked again'. More so if you have a friend hleping you and/or pair it with Flip-Flop
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2798292#Comment_2798292
The ENTIRE POINT of the perk is to get Survivors OFF OF GENS. It's an anti-'genrush' perk. Note: I put 'genrush' in quotes because there is no such thing; 'genrushing' is Survivors playing their goal efficiently. But the term serves for my point; It exists to slow down gen speeds by forcing Survivors to look for totems.
That is precisely why NOED is such a dumpsterfire of gamedesign.
It's a risk vs reward
You risk cleansing totems. Either your risk pays off & you stop NoED before it happens. Or you do gens and get smacked.
Alternatively: You risk doing totems, and you wasted time because the Killer never had NoED.
And that is why. The counterplay is an investment of five totems against no guaranteed reward. As a coordinated effort, this might work, but survivors don't get those tools as baseline, so that's out of the window already. This gets compounded by the fact that it is a lengthy process and only full, 100% completion offers ANY benefit, and then ONLY if the killer actually did bring this perk, which survivors have no way of telling. Then, even if you do manage to get all totems done against a killer who DOES have NOED, as mentioned before, it competes with Thanatophobia for a slow-down perk.
And in theory that is all fine...
But the fact that it's 100% risk with little to no chance for an actual reward, means the 'counterplay' is massively disproportionate.
And then you have to remember the way it works if you fail to get all five totems: It will find that last totem and take that one, which means if you cleansed all the totems you COULD find, all you accomplished was both wasting time AND guaranteeing that the perk is shunted into the totem you CAN'T find. In which case your effort is rewarded by making the perk a bigger problem than it would've been if you hadn't touched -any- totem.
Which, in short, means that NOED actively discourages the cleansing of dull totems.
Legitimately, the perk would be considerably more fair if it and a totem counter were baseline. Because then it -actually- is in the survivors' control.
If It and a totem counter were baseline; It would NEVER see endgame play. Ever.
Survivors would ALWAYS know it was in play. You may as well just make 'Cleanse 5 totems' a requirement for exiting through the gates, at that point, because NoED would not exist by the time 5th gen pops.
I can get behind 'have a totem counter' be baseline if you're not in a SWF. It helps branch the massive gulf between SWF and SoloQ.
But the POINT of NoED is not knowing if it exists. This way; Survivors can possibly be punished if they 'genrush'. You make NoED 100% exists in every match and, sure, Gens slow down slightly, but it would NEVER see end-game. Ever.
There would be no more risk vs reward. No more punishment for making the wrong call because the risk has been removed to make Survivors happy. It goes from 'Do they have NoED? Can I pound this gen?' to 'Time to 99% the last 3 gens, then totem hunt! Because they always have NoED!'
It's more hand-holding bullshit meant to make Survivors happy while kicking Killers in the balls. It removes the threat of NoED, and any chance of it making end-game at all. Because Survivors don't like making bad calls, IE: Deciding to 'genrush' & getting slapped by NoED.
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@BenSanderson55 said:
It's almost like some people don't want you to wiggle free by using this perk, which is the entire point. Add more hooks and get rid of 25% so you basically never have a chance to wiggle off and making it another useless perk while meta remains unchanged. Fighting themselves, enjoy dead hard, ds, unbreakable, bt lol
It's almost like some people don't want you to wiggle free by using this perk, which is the entire point.
If Survivors could consistently wriggle off using ONE perk; Killer would literally never get a kill.
All it would take is 1 Survivor body-blocking for 1 hit to turn a 75% escape rate solo with Boil Over into a 100% escape rate with help.
No perk should make escaping the Killer a nearly-sure thing. But Survivors can't seem to understand that the Killer is also trying to win, so they continue to demand bullshit that will screw the Killer over, as if it were an AI they don't care about.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
I agree, ever since the first hotfix I haven't seen a spot where a survivor has been unhookable. 33% of the current wiggle is too harsh of a nerf, it should be at least 50%.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2798255#Comment_2798255
Isn't it meant to be a sabo perk? Sabotage existing is the whole point of the perk.
it should be at least 50%.
Seriously? Get 50% of the wriggle progress you have because the Killer fell 3 inches or more? No. That's just as, if not more, broken than Boil Over currently is.
Do Survivors now think they deserve to get out of a grab 99% of the time, now that Boil OPver made that possible?