Akumakaji
Akumakaji
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/424671/does-anyone-miss-the-old-healing-process
going into the basement can be risky sometimes
I mean, it should be risky. It's a video game, risk is the fun part. Safe is boring. No one ever talks about the fun they had sitting on five gens while the killer watched, they talk about the awesome late-game save they just barely pulled off with the killer on their ass and NOED still up and their controller spontaneously combusting.
Last escape was so hot, my mouse AND my keyboard literally burst into flames. Phew.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/424543/huntress-feels-too-strong-right-now
That's such an exaggeration on her hitboxes. If they're really that big, they should be hitting walls and obstacles constantly before they get to you.
Thats a petpieve of myself, too. I understand that exaggeration can be a tool to highlight problems or to put an emphasis on something, but most of the time used grossly out of proportion, and thus robs any argument that you might wanna buff of ANY validity.
If those hatchets hitboxes weren't planet-sized but pallet-size, that would still be an exaggeration, but it would at least be somewhat proportional and also use an in-game reference.
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@LadyOwO said:
Do you play survivor at all? I highly doubt you'd understand how absurd it feels to play against her. I can guarantee you that she's not balanced at all right now.
Huntress is actually one of my favorite killers to verse, because you can do so many things against her, loke dodging left to right, fake vaults and running her around trash loops for half the game, if she doesn't want to commit to a M1 attack. Of course she is strong, she is the original ranged killer when the simple concept was "its just like hitting them, but at a distance. But she is slow while doing it." and her concept has stood the test of time remarkably. But I myself? I play so bad as her.
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@knifeinrib said:
Last time I checked, players are allowed to voice their concerns. I believe most Resident Evil fans or enjoyers alike got back and find him disappointing because it's nothing like the RE version. None of it remotely comes close to what it is and lacks any adaptation compared to killers like Freddy, Ghostface, Leatherface or Myers.
Its this … but a full rework of his power is basically impossible at this point, we have a power that works and that got finetuned a couple of times, so they won't "waste" a complete new sets of abilities on him.
BUT I think that the criticism is somewhat valid, he was the one license that got so many people to check out DBD, and many were pretty disappointed by his kit and lack of an accurate representation of his abilities known from the games. The thing with the rocket launcher is silly, thats for sure, but his inhumane resilience, the way he hunts relentlessly, non of this is represented, and this got many players upset.
In the past BHVR stated that on the current generation of consoles 2 Zombies were the max the engine could support, but many players seem to think that with the current enginge it could be possible? Well, 3 Zombies would surely be nice, but the Zombies are not what makes or breaks Nemesis. What I had always wanted was some ability to control the Zombies, maybe not perfectly, but every 60s send them to one corner of the map you chose, or towards one gen.
And the infection has basically no effect, besides a third health state and some coughing (that occasionally gave a survivor away to me, but lets be honest, its just a third health state). Nemesis is also very well known to burst into a sprint during his encounters, and this could work so well as a map traversal tool, just like the Xenomorph got his crawler mode, a runner mode for Nemesis during which he moves faster and could end it by smashing through a breakable wall, pallet or damaging a gen, would be very thematic.
With the current round of buffs it is literally THE BEST time to voice this concerns and "anger", albeit the constant nagging about a rocket thrower will not cut it. But how long do you think will it take for Trickster to get another shot at his abilities, now that his PTB was done and implemented? If Nemesis kit ever gets an evolution, its NOW or NEVER.
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Just today I had a lobby of a 5k player and his 2.5k mates. For a moment I debated if I should dodge this lobby, but then I embraced it as a learning experience an stayed.
They burned a map offering to send me to one of the most survivor sided maps. Why? You got like 10k+ hours in your team and you are still not convident enough to do good without stacking everything into your favor? Smh…
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She gives me really uncanny valley vibes. I don`t know what it is, but she creepy me out.
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There has a lot already been said here. I wanna add a few of my own experiences with The Unknown. The UVX has really fallen from grace since his introduction to the game. During the first 2 weeks you could do some fun bounces, fun hits through walls or ranged snipes, but nowadays survivors know it all and all your tricks are instantly defanged. The AoE feels pittyful small in todays day and age and survivors seem to run out of range in even the tightest of spaces. And sometimes you get a direct hit and thats just an utter waste of your ability. By the time your cooldown is over and you get another shot, Nurse can already teleport again or Blight could dash halfway across the map.
His teleport is mostly fun to use (sometimes a survivor follows you around and dispells each and every haluzination, which is about as much fun as someone following Trapper and disableing all his traps; sure, its effective I guess, but it feels so pointless to play that character at that point.
I feel that the UVX could at least grow bigger as it travels through the air, so far shots and snipes have a much bigger AoE. That still wouldn't help that close shots were you just feel utterly powerless, but it would at least be something. And shooting at ceilings and walls is extremely unreliable, especially with such a small AoE.
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I just had a game with Pyramid Head on the Eiry vs a SWF with fully stacked meta perks (besides one rando, who was obviously not running with them). The first chase got rewarded with 3 gens popping and during the next chase I saw them already encroaching on the gen that I just kicked. What do this players suggest to the killer to do at this point, 1 hook, only two gens done? So of course I tunneled. The survivor even got away after the second escape, but I broke chase with the obvious god-looper immediately. I played really rough, used my cages wisely and just barely scratched bye and got two kills.
In the end I chased one wounded survivor around shack, then returned to the last gen that was at 90+% and managed a lucky grab from an overconvident survivor. I then managed to down the last one with a lucky snipe through the shack walls and turned a sure loss into a full 4K. Sure enough, the survivors were salty a left some spicy slurs on my profil ^^
So I don't know, most of the time my games are like this and I feel not one bit overpowered. Sure, sometimes the game throws newbies at me you can most likely feel it and I usually meme around with those, unless they feel like BMing me at every opportunity. I can often hold my ground at this strong survivors, but I got to sweat every single game and there is a fair share of 3 and 4E, ngl.
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Yes, for me Xeno died a long time ago. The PTB tail attack was busted, but the double nerf that followed made Xeno very unfun to play, especially when it comes with free counterplay for everyone, ie Flamer Turrets.
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I am with you on this, but surprisingly, you were not the first one to come up with this idea, and whenever it gets brought up, people hate it, because it would mean that one to five survivors would surely have the best ability, and everyone would then just play those survivors, because they were the new meta.
One medium idea that I would like would be to either have survivors have one perk slot that permanently slots in one of their starting perks, thus giving them more of an identity without having to come up with 40+ new mini powers, or further expand on this and designate one "meta" perk of their loadout, ie the best one, and allow only them to slot that perk, barring it for everyone else. That last idea would be pretty radical, but it could be interesting.
I kinda think that "well, just let people have fun" or maybe "only allow one single copy of a survivor per match" and let the queue times sort out the meta, but people really seem to hate that.
So survivors will forever be just skins. Duh.
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I would upvote you 5 times if I could.
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My current go-to build is Franklin's/Weave Attunement, as it is kinda fun and effective, but it will probably gone for good in a months time max.
As my third perk I run PainRes, because the game without any slowdown is very painful for killer.
My fourth perk is flexible and I usually run something fun here, like Trail of Torment, Unknowns stealth perk, Coup, Deerstalker or Spies, with Spies actually being my most used perk in this slot.
Its a very dangerous and aggressive chase build with only token regression, and if Weave Attunement gets nerfed I might be tempted to run POP again, because why bother with anything? Survivors didn't want to adept to Weave, so it got complaint about so much that it got nerfed and in the end nothing changes.
That aside, my build allows very few mistakes and can be pretty unforgiving, but it allows me to get into the thicked quite regularly and having very little off-time out of chase ... which is needed, because, as everyone knows: gens fly these days and even one dedicated gen jockey can slowly erode all your progress while you try to play the hook game.
Yesterday I had a game vs an obvious SWF, all running SB and/or DH, Resilience and Windows plus flashies. I had two on death hook pretty early, but then dropped chase when it was obvious that they would take me on the long tour over he map; committing would have 100% cost me the game. I got one lucky kill later at 2 gens remaining, then broke a tight chase at 1 gen because I had a feeling that they other two were duoing the last gen in the odd corner.
Due to Resilience they had stayed injured and I arrived with barely time on the clock. But that allowed me to down them both, skillfully noting the telltale signs of DH and thus baiting it out, and then methodologically hunting for the last wounded survivor. Got lucky with my pick of Spies, as they ratted out the safe attempt preemptively.
But that 4K was only due to some very good decisions on my side and them missplaying and staying injured. They would have eaten any slightly lesser experienced killer for breakfast and the game would have ended with sour 0-1K. I would have had more breathing room if I went full on gen regression, but well, I also don't want to be a meta slave, blindly following the most played perks without any variety, but my descision in my build often costs me games and makes many trials VERY difficult. The situation isn't helped in the slightest that like 90% of all the obvious SWF feel also the need to further push thinks in their favor by buring survivor favorable map offerings. God, I hate this so much.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/423662/huntress-2v8
There is statistically a 60% chance that the killer in the game is NOT huntress, and that is assuming all of them equally have a 20% pick rate, the reality is they do not.
If we look at nightlight and view pick rates for the 5 killers, than normalize them for being the only 5 choices, we have these pick rates. (rounded, so may not equal 100%)
- Huntress - 34.8%
- Hillbilly - 20.1%
- Wraith - 16.5%
- Nurse - 14.5%
- Trapper - 14.2%
Factoring that it, we can see that the odds of NOT getting a huntress in your match is:
65.3% the first killer is not huntress
58.4% the second killer is not huntress.
Adding those up, there is a 38% chance that huntress is NOT in your game.
This means in 5 games played, you'll see her 3 times.
This is also assuming that the pick rates for these modes are equal to what they are for the normal game, which is probably not true. There is no data to show it, but anecdotally, i'd imagine billy has a significantly lower pick rate, due to him being the "support killer" and much harder to play with random other teammates and needing high coordination. So again, anecdotally, i'd imagine the odds of NOT seeing huntress in your game is probably closer to 30%.
The point though? This will get significantly better the next time 2v8 comes out and they add more killers to it. You'll stop seeing the same killers over and over again. You need to remember that with only 5 killers to choose from, and 2 killers every game, you are going to see the same killers ALOT more than you do in the regular game.
Huntress is easily the most played killer in 8v2 and when I play 10 games of survivor, I see about 9 Huntresses. But I don't see this as a problem, its just the nature of such a limited roster and her power being really good in 8v2. Its like complaining that practically every survivor you face runs either DH, SB or Lithe, its just to be expected and lies in the nature of exhaustion perks.
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@fussy said:
I think on its on it's fair perk, but when whole SWF have it, it become no doubt most braindead and unfair perk in the game. Just bring some comp bone / key / Eyrie, ignore healing, clue to gens with Resi, take some hits for friends on last gen, and here you are, literally free escape no matter what.
Because killer stacking slowdown is unfair, but survivors bring bunch of second chances is fair, you know.Thats why I think the best and easiest way to nerf bully or hardcore SWFs, without hurting casual SWFs much or soloQ at all would be this:
when you have a SWF, no doubling of perks allowed, every perk in the SWF has to be unique. This would shut down the aweful feeling of going against 4 DH, 4 Unbreakable, 4 DS while churning out gens with the power of 4 Resilience etc. or being thrown into a "fun" 4 Head On match on Dead Dog or Hawkins, while leaving the casual SWFs mostly unaffected. One or two perks would have to be changed by one person or another, but who cares, everyone is running something fun most likely.
And soloQ players would be completely unaffected by this change, as it only prevents premade groups from doubling up, if a soloQ MMR throws 4 DHs into on lobby, so be it.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3778912#Comment_3778912
This was not a change for slugging, it's a kill qol change.
They can't try to claim there targeting slugging, without first going after slugging for the 4k. That's probably 70% of all slugging instances in the game.
This is like 1 in 1000 games this change would affect.
About a dozen of this 1: 1000 games have been mine, because I had so many situations where my first instinct was "great, I got to slug now", only to immediately remeber that the hooks had already respawned at this point.
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@Rick1998 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3774215#Comment_3774215
lethal only eats one token from distorsion a so does any aura that goes past 10 seconds . Try it yourself with a friend in privates
It does now, when they tweaked it again, but right after 6.1 Leathal Pursuer would eat 2 tokens right at the start of the trial. But I already said so in that comment of mine.
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When the Prestige thing was rolled out, I remember that I was scared of P20 players or any lobby with 2+P9s. But I quickly learned that dedication to a character doesn't equal skill, at all, and most P100 players went down just as easy as a P3 player.
There is a thing, though, about those fabled bully squads and a full lobby of P100s. You don't usually find that in the wilds and as a random, for P100s usually mean a dedicated SWF that means business and I have never had a chill game against such a group and yes, I occasionally dodged them. But alas, this new change is probably for the better and the P-level of a character is the least problematic thing this game has.
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@PatchNoir said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3774188#Comment_3774188
yeah i go into that way of thinking too, a couple nods and bags hurts no one, but its pretty boring when they slug hump you all the timer, to hook last second is super cringe. Also when the entity kills you the humping gets more real
Fr, some peeps do it for the whole 4min? oof … I only ever saw it like 5s, then a nod and then they either hook you or leave and let you slugged.
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So far we only have original killers. Who knows if the licensed will ever see the Daylight of 8v2? But just imagine the meme and advertisement potential, if Myers and Bubba were chasing together. As exposed is such a rare status effect in 8v2, Myers could really find a cool niche there that weren't possible in the main game. On the other hand, with 8 survivors he would hardly ever run low on stalk juice.
Oh well, all I really want is to play Pyramid Head in this mode and show off my awesome trick shots and maybe get a three in one or something like that :D
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3774040#Comment_3774040
So fun fact, this is actually how it works already. If you can get an aura read for more than 10 seconds (I think there's only a few very niche ways to do this, like Nurse's Bad Man's Keepsake add-on, or Legion's Stylish Sunglasses, or combining Larry's Crew Manifest with Lethal Pursuer) then it will take 2 tokens, because it only blocks the 10 second duration, not the entire instance. It just so happens that there's not much aura reading that lasts for 10 seconds or more.
Fun fact 2: I think in the past Distortions uptime was just 7s, and because they buffed Lethal Pursuer at one point (wasnt it the infamous 6.1?) to show the aura of survivors for 9s (7s base +2s by its own power), it ate 2 stacks of Distortion, right off the bat.
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If you dig really deep, the whole teabagging thing has its origins in the humiliation of the other players character, who lies broken and defeated at your gaming-avatars feet, while it purposefully lowers its crotch on their face, like dipping a teaback into the hot water and back again.
Various Halo games even had special features where this was played for laughes and the dead character models face would react by looking and orienting itself to the other characters crotch.
Since then, and outside of Halo, t-bagging has lost most of its offensive connotation and more evolved into the direction of "flipping someone off" or "hahaha! Take that!", but one should not forget the origins of the t-bag. Claiming that one if harmless, while the other is uncomfortable and unsettling, is kinda disingenious, when killer players have reported hurt feelings and anger at the humble t-bag since this games inception.
I am not arguing for the humping, btw, I think I never did it myself and don't see any reason to, but BMing from the survivors to the killer seems to be taken as a given and harmless fun, so I wanted to bring this to the table.
In the end, most of the time I can laugh a t-bag off, but sometimes it really gets under my skin and I could flip the table. Thats usually when I know to stop the game and maybe go outside, touch some gras and reconnect with nature (or go to the river, its just a 5min walk from where I am living). And the humiliation of the defeated party seems to be deeply ingrained into the human psyche, so we probably can't do anything about it, besides some hard measures that would kill the spirit of the game.
BTW, you know what could help at least a little bit with punishing mean, BMing t-baggers at the exit gates? Thats right: a new general killer perk named "Just Leave"
"Just Leave" - a survivor who lingers for 40/30/20s at the exit gates area without healing a teammate will get exposed and the exit gates will block for them, until they move further away then 40m from that exit gate. While exposed, their aura will be shown to the killer, thus reducing the ability for survivors to grief the killer and waste unneccessary time. -
@Laluzi said:
While I'm curious how detectable his new ambient sounds will be in the PTB, I don't think Dredge can ever be OP so long as locker placement remains inconsistent. A map like Swamp or Coldwind just gives him nothing to work with.
I don't think the remnant change will make him OP. He's still slower than the survivor - it's a 0.12 m/s increase. It'll make the remnant a viable game on a few more loops, but imo that just puts him next to a bunch of other killers who also have a power to make loops unsafe.
Not only that maps, I once loaded into Lerys with Dredge and though "Oh well, at least its an indoor map, there is basically a locker in every room and corner". Well, actually there isn't. I had to learn that in about 2 whole quarters of the map, there were NO lockers at all. Maybe I got extremely unlucky that game, but it was a real pain to get around and often I had to do really awkward teleports, just to maybe intercept someone. And the surprise teleport during a chase would only work on half of the map. That match was pretty unfun, to say the least.
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@HaunterofShadows said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771960#Comment_3771960
Survivors don't like slugging regardless of why it happens. I've seen slugging complained about because of intentional bleedouts, slugging for the 4k, Hook deadzones, or because of their own builds
I have slugged many survivors due to hook issues, that played really hard and sweaty and who gave me no reason to show mercy on them and giving them hatch. In other cases I would have just try to haul them over to the hook or even give hatch, but some survivors really give you no reason to be nice in return.
In those cases, I usually tryed to goad them towards a hook, slashed the air under a hook or in the hooks direction. A normal MO was to move extra slowly over there and then wriggle on the floor and start crawling away into a corner. This survivors would literally die and waste 4min, then to not griefe and just get themselves hooked.
On a side note, 3 years back there was a change to the wriggle progression. Originally (at that time when I started playing) the wriggle progress would slowly decay while a survivor was slugged, but then it was changed that the progressbar would stay where it was until the survivor wriggled out. This mechanic is the other reason why a killer often can't hook a survivor. I don't know if there was a specific incident or behavior behind the change, but I always hated this, as if left killers in a lose/lose situation if they couldn't reach a hook. Maybe someone who played at that time could explain this to me? Thanks ^_-
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@Marioneo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773579#Comment_3773579
Still 50+ Mins wait time it is getting WORSE no improving
If its 50/50 you failed your job its supposed to be 40/60
I live smack in the middle of Europe, so that might influence my queue times. I didn't take notes as such, but always had a stop watch on my second screen running, to give me an idea of the queue times.
The frist two days I couldn't play due to life being busy, and I think that would have been the craziest days, anyway. From then on my survivor queues were basically instant, and my killer queues were around 11:30min to 12:30min. I got once in at 2min, probably as a backfill killer, if you would beliefe that, but over all the days of the first week 11:30-12:30min queue times were very consistently.
Now, in week two, things seem to have eased up a little, just like Mandy said. My queue times are now consistently around 4:30-6:00min, I never waited longer, but once hat another backfill game, where my wait time was 2:30min.
Killrate and escape-wise I have even less hard data, just anecdotaly. During my first week both sides were much easier: survivors didn't know what they were doing, and if I chased a good survivor for longer then 10s I could just drop chase and find someone who would go down in less then 20s. But same on the survivors side: while the two killers were strong, many were returning killers who just wanted to see how the game felt and I legitly got matched with 200h killers, whom I personally could loop for 8 gens. I never escaped as much as I did during the first week as survivor.
Now in week two, things tightned up: when I play killer, survivors are more savy of whats going on, there are less potatoes and most survivors just hug their gens and its not uncommon to go from say 6 gens to 2 gens in the matter of 15s, when they repair back to back. Also, there are no much more good survivors who know how to greed the abundance of pallets on the maps to the absolute max and many take protection hits. I have had a fair share of 7-8E games :V But players are very often altruistic, as most of you know, so there is always the chance to get one or two kills. I have seem double knockdowns in the exit area, with one quick stomp sending a t-bagging survivor over the map to a deadly demise in a claw cage.
Likewise, as survivor the killers feel much more oppressive. The Huntress is the most popular one and her being paired with Wraith or Trapper is the most comon matchup, so you allways have to be mindful of hatchets. The killer wisened up to the claw cage mechanic and many now run back to the cages in order to intercept survivors there or even slug while proxy guarding the slug, to generate more pressure and attracting survivors, before stomping the slug and being instantly in the next chase with the would be savior. While my escape rates didn't tank, its now much harder to escape as a survivor then last week.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773447#Comment_3773447
Guess I can drop my two cents on this situation.
I do think the 2v8 claw-cages would have been good, IF they went that route during the game's earlier stages. I say this because we have flashlight saves, pallet stuns, and a bunch of hook related perks that would need changes or complete overhauls, possibly even the removal of flashlights and sabotage related stuff if they decided to put in the 2v8 system into 1v4. If it were a system they had planned early, the entire game could have been made around this system.
Aside that, there's also the issue with how predictable the cages are. They're already kinda easy to figure out in 2v8, and will be way easier in 1v4, especially in smaller maps and against high mobility killers. Might work against a 4.4 speed Hag without Mint Rag, but imagine a Blight just slamming a survivor in one corner and immediately rushing at it to prevent a quick unhook.
And speaking of quick unhooks, that is another thing to consider. Current hook mechanics are a solid way for the one killer to apply pressure against gen speeds, especially survivors who are VERY generator proficient. If the cage system were in 1v4, mainly against the weaker cast, sending them off into a claw-cage right into the arms of another survivor is just lost pressure, especially if you loop them in strong tiles for a long time. Killers gain no real pressure from it in that situation, and realistically it'd be skewed odds in the survivors favor for how quick an unhook can be. And also keep in mind how fast 1-2 gens pop in early game while a killer could lose all pressure. Slugging might be the better alternative in that situation, which kinda sucks for both parties involved imo. (Unless you play a top tier high mobility killer, anyway.)Good points, that kinda mirror my own perception.
My idea actually wasn't to completely adopt the clawcage system, but to go by some sort of hybrid. Right now, many killers complain that the first chase is the most frustrating: they down a survivor, hook them and 1-3 gens pop shortly after, so they reason they could just proxy camp that one hook they got and at least secure one kill instead of going on a fruitless chase and being left with 3 hooks spread over three survivors when the 5th gen pops.
My idea was that each survivors first hook stage is them being stomped by the killer and send to the farthest hook on the map. Sure, a Blight could predict that and speed over there, but that will take at least a little bit of time and isn't as instantly as loitering a hook and proxy camping.
What would be the benefit of this system? The killers could keep up the momentum at the start, just stomping and maybe defending one of the gens that was close to being popped. On the survivors side, though, it would be that much harder to hard tunnel the first survivor the killer downs out of the game and turning it into a 3v1 2:30min into the match. The second and third hook of each survivor would then work in the classic way, ie picking them up and hauling them physically to any hook.
I think that such a system could work pretty well.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773462#Comment_3773462
With the PTB sudden mori mechanic game 3 survivors can still get to use unbreakable, and flip flop powerplays or deliverance doesn't work even on today simply because killer has no obligation to pick anyone up at all
I'm not opposed to simply giving them grace period instead of ridiculous things like basekit unbreakable, but any counter that is working today will work on PTB just fine so talking as if "there is no counter" is simply wrong
One thing for sure: Basekit Unbreable JUST. CANT. HAPPEN! The game isn't made for this, so the sudden death mori can't be happening either. But a Finisher Mori when everyone is slugged and no one has any Unbreakable left? Sounds about right to me.
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@Crowman said:
I don't think it'll solve what people think it'll solve.
Survivors going for immediate saves or hiding around the hook waiting for the killer to leave will still have the same end result.
Survivors going for immediate saves were never the problem, I am more concerned about how more viable the "gens before friends - oh wait we still have time to keep the cake and eat it!" strategy will be, BUT I guess thats still better then camping someone out. Gens are already flying off the shelves these days, and the increased timer will give the GOOD survivors even less incentive to leave their gens.
But alas, I also think that it will be as @Aven_Fallen said: the change will come and one or two weeks from now some peeps will still grumble, but most will have accepted it and already adapted their tactics.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773455#Comment_3773455
That's the problem in basekit unbreakable
instant finisher mori never makes anything different to killers, infinite T3 Myers or oni is ALREADY a menace and a good oni CAN turn any game into a sudden death by the 2:30 mark RIGHT NOW without ANY PROBLEM AT ALL, with basically no danger for themselves EXACTLY AS TODAY
Any anti-slugging perks will just work fine because there is no reason you'll wait for it to activate in very last seconds, all it does is removing unnecessary slugging at the end and nothing else, LITERALLY nothing else
True, but in a normal game, if you play infinite T3 Myers, there is always the chance that one of the downed survivors has Unbreakable and will use it ince you pick up the last survivor. This happens all the time. With the PTB sudden mori mechanic the game ended before any unbreakbales or Flip Flop/Powerplays or potential Deliverances could be used, it was a true sudden death mechanic.
So while a comeback from a4 slug Oni in regular game isn't easy, there is at least a chance for it. Thats why I would link the reduced Finsher Mori mechanic to all this perks. If the survivors can potentially still turn this somehow arround, they stay slugged, but if they got no chances left, just end the game. In a way, its less of a tactical use and more like how the EGC prevents the game to be taken hostage, while not really offering a tangible benefit to the killer. Nearly always there is more then enough time to reset and run for the doors, and the timer barely comes into play.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
I really don't understand why survivors didnt like the original finisher Mori. The number one complained about thing is being slugged out and the finisher Mori literally prevented it from happening entirley. If the killer downed everyone then the game ended. If they didnt down everyone then they all got to get up for free. Seems like it's more of an ego thing not to want the original finisher Mori because it removes the less than 1% chance of actually escaping the killer and getting revenge. So instead people would rather just be miserable for the majority of the time I guess.
The original finisher Mori had this sudden death mechanic where the game transitioned over to the Mori animation the very frame the last survivor hit the floor. That was held in check somewhat by the base unlimited unbreakable, but it made the game even MORE sweaty! Killers would try to down everyone while survivors were constantly picking themselves up, eliminating any pressure that a slug could pose, freeing all the survivors to just hug gens.
Some killers like infinite T3 Myers and Oni become real menaces under this system, and a good Oni could turn any game into a sudden death by the 2:30min mark, with basically no danger for themselves. And thats just uncool and no one liked that. Getting tabled by an Oni already feels brutal, but in this PTB, is was extremely savage.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773429#Comment_3773429
I too believed the cages were better but a couple of Pyramidhead mains pointed out critical flaws in their design. @ChaosWam had really salient points about why cages aren’t really a good anti-tunneling/camping mechanic.
I haven't read his piece, but as a Pyramid Head main myself, I am pretty good at predicting Pyramid Heads cages and if I want to tunnel, I can usually beeline in the right direction.
The cages aren't a perfect solution, I never said that, but they are a much better solution then not having them. I find the 8v2 cages a bit harder to track down then real Pyramid Head cages, I think they have more of an RNG radius in that they can spawn, then spawning in the furthest part of the map, but it could also be that the cages spawn furthest away from both killers (I really don't know), which would sometimes lead to them appearing suboptimal.
I would love to try a balanced approach: let the killer stomp survivors on first hook, relieving a bit of pressure from both sides and making it harder to purposefully tunnel someone hard, but mostly keep the hook gameplay intact. ACTUALLY, now that I think about it, the disappearing of the hooked survivor and respawning away from the killer could be used as an alternative to AFC. I know that you can use this offensively, but the main case is that you can't really facecamp such a cage without risking it despawning, potentially right in front of another survivor.
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@Hannacia said:
1 perk shouldn't have the power to counter so many perks and addons. I personally hope that the token gaining gets changed. Right now distortion hurts the teammates. Most of the times people use this perk to hide alongside with other "stealth" perks like urban evasion, calm spirit and now iron will since its back to 100%. These people will not take chase or even save from hooks quite often. Other teammates gets " tunneled " out since the killer can't find these hiders. and im saying tunneled with very loosely. As a killer if i can't find the corner hopping hiders ill go to where i know the survivors are and i will hook the same survivor again if i have to.
So make it that the tokens can only be gained by eather being in chase for certain amount of time or do a gen x % amount or help teammates by unhooking and healing. Anything that will force the full on hiders to actually participate in gameplay.
Also i'd go as far as remove the hiding the scratchmarks part of the perk.
Maybe we can find some sort of balanced approach: right now, a killer who diversified their build and had a little bit of aura reading in it got hurt the most. Their little aura reading would never reveal the survivor with Distortion and that survivor would probably regain their token before the killer got another opportunity.
On the other hand, a killer with 4 aura reading perks could blast through that tokens like they weren't even there. I think the reverse should be the case: a killer with just one perk shouldn't be hit that hard, while a killer with full aura reading should feel it more severely. Like increasing the time your aura stays hidden when a token gets taken away for each consequtive aura reading, and if you lose all three tokens kinda back to back, your aura becomes completely hidden for 60s.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773426#Comment_3773426
You actually just lost me at the end of your first paragraph. You being a killer main doesn’t really matter here. The game shouldn’t end because four survivors are slugged, which is what happened during the finisher mori tests on PTB and why the idea at least in that iteration was scrapped. Killers would slug all four people at 5 gens, mori the last then the other three automatically died.
Now you lost me. I completely argued against the PTBs version of the sudden death mori mechanic, so why do you bring that up?
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773246#Comment_3773246
Same here. Wraiths are notorious for this. It’s definitely deliberate, not coincidence, that they end up at cages just as a survivor is being freed
But the cage mechanic is still infinitely better then the normal hooks. The killer has to actively look for them and not just wait and see and there is always the chance that they missread the terrain and the cage showed up in a different part of the map. I think that this could be something that BHVR could implement in the base game. Maybe for the first hook stage? First down, just stomp the survivor, not losing much time during that crucial early game, but also giving the survivors an easy chance to reset and getting away without getting tunneled.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773418#Comment_3773418
A game shouldn’t end automatically because four survivors are slugged. Killers should be punished in some way for this as it circumvents normal gameplay.
Slugging four survivors during normal gameplay is kinda hard and not the thing you would expect. Did you actually read my comment with an open mind, or did you just came down on it, because it was written by a killer main?
My take was that a Finisher Mori update should remove the opportunity for griefing and BMing from the killers side by just advancing a clearly unwinnable game, without making it this weird sudden death mechanic that it was in the PTB from ages ago, where the Mori would start the very frame the last survivor hit the floor.
But well, I will humor you: if the killer slugs all four survivors, that means that the survivors severely missplayed, as such an occurence is highly impropable. So why do you want to punish the killer for that? At this stage a 4% escape is much more likely then you think. And if the killer babysits each hook until the hanging survivor either advanced naturally to stage 2 or they used up their three unhooking attemps, then this further proofs my point that removing the opportunity to griefing would be a win for the game.
While we are at that point, just give killers the perk "Just Leave" - a survivor who lingers for 40/30/20s at the exit gates area without healing a teammate will get exposed and the exit gates will block for them, until they move further away then 40m from that exit gate. While exposed, their aura will be shown to the killer, thus reducing the ability for survivors to grief the killer and waste unneccessary time.
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Also, a lot of the survivors aren't on the same page with regards to "why do you sweat so much? This is supposed to be a fun game mode", either. Shrug It is what it is and players will always find a way to optimise the fun out of everything.
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@Memesis said:
I really hope we're not getting an incoming slug meta. That ptb was horrible, with or without basekit unbreakable.
What i'd really like to see is the yellow mori basekit, but only working if there is one survivor left, which would hopefully discourage slugging the last two survivors.
And, give base-kit unbreakable when there are two survivors left to further discourage slugging for the 4k.
Forcing a hatch or mori only would be the more exciting ending of a killer-won match, and certainly be more fun than a slug fest.
When we had this utterly failure of the Mori/unlimitedUnbreakable PTB, I was actually surprised how elaborate the whole thing was, with all this unlimited unbreakable, literal tunnel vision and tinkered perks.
When I heared Finisher Mori back then, I thought "oh yeah, when all survivors are slugged and no one has an unbreakable left, the killer gets an autowin, so he can't slug them for 4min and everyone moves on", something as simple as that. I never understood why we needed this complex sudden-death mechanic, just let the game end when the survivors chance of, well surviving, are less then 1% without anyone extending the game to griefe.
Back in the days before we had regeneration hooks there often were this situations where you, as the killer, might not have wanted THAT particular survivor to escape, maybe they BMed you or whatever, but they crawled into a deadzone/comp corner, and you could either risk that they escaped and mock you severely in chat, or bleed them out while you occasionally slashed your weapon in the direction of a hook.
In my eyes, the Finisher Mori should have just ended the game in such a situation with a nice finisher and everyone could move on. Does any survivor have an unused unbreakable or is on hook stage 1? Well, then the clock keeps ticking. Is everyone involved on hook stage 2 and got no perk to help? Just end the game. Thats what a Finisher Mori update should do. Maybe even give the slugged survivors without hookstages an option to resign and let them all move on to the Mori. But the whole thing should not offer any tangible benefit to either side, it should just be there to limit griefing and abuse opportunities.
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@Rudjohns said:
How many people post in Nightlight periodically? I'm gonna guess 1k if I'm being very generous
Yeah, not exactly the most trustworthy statistic
While its true that Nightlights stats are biased and crooked, ie only players who care about the game a lot would even think about uploading there, the vast swaths of casual players probably never heared of it, its still a big enough sample size to show more then just flukes. There have been a couple if instances, where Nightlight got 7 of the 10 most played perks right and their stats coincided with the official one that BHVR released.
So while nothing at Nightlight should be taken at face value or extrapolated at "the whole playerbase", its very good at showing trends and I can think of no instance, where a problematic or underused perk didn't show exactly that at its stats in Nightlight.
Also, think about this: while the player who reports themselves are biased, their opposition is just a glimps of what you will encounter in the wild. When I upload a survivor match, the killers I got matched with are the kind of killers that I run into every other game. And when I upload one of my killer matches, my loadout might stay the same, but the 2-3 DH (for example) are data collected out in the real game.
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One game I spend the whole match trapping up the main building in the red forest. Its basically unavoidable to run in there sooner or later and the thing was a literal deathtrap. But the most successful trap was one that I set up right at the corer after you run up the outside stairs. That trap alone caught 4(!) different survivors.
Trapper is like the ultimate supporting killer. Alone he is rather weak, but supporting literally anyone else, he is a terrifying force multiplier.
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Well, thats just rude … or cool as hell … daaaaaang, this will really mess me up :V
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@legiondoctor said:
I see this absolutely a survivor patch. Theres 2 killer buffs and all survivor buffs. Why no buffs to killer perks?
Well, we got a lot for us going last patch, and this here is mostly QOL stuff, with all this perks that require a half gen going down to 40%. You know how often my mate asked me "uhm, this is awkward, but since no one of us missed a skillcheck and we have been working on this gen nonstop together … could you just STOP repairing it for 5s, so that I can craft my Flasbang afterwards? Thanks"
Us killers got a lot of rarely used perks cooldowns basically halfed, like Trails of Torment or Oppression, making them now pretty good or at least fun and viable. Its a give and take and not always in the same patch, but the survivor buffs ain't all doom and gloom. Well, I will eat my words when everyone is running Finesse x Dance with me x Quick and Quiet and I try to mindgame a survivor for 20s that isn't there anymore, but I will try to stay chill.
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@Philscooper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771452#Comment_3771452
yeah kind of sad that the sweats isnt really helping though, (since day 1)
but its what the community does so, toucheI also had a nice moment with me as the killer. Me (Wraith) and a Huntress were dominating, had killed off all the survivors and the Huntress was chasing the last wounded survivor (an Ada). I watched her, then dove forward and shielded that Ada with my body and protected her. The Huntress pauses and agreed and together we went then ro look for hatch. But something like this is really rare in 8v2. It isn't helped by the fact, though, that you can't pick up a downed survivor and show your intentions
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@Marc_go_solo said:
Although I had a break from 2v8 fairly early on due to a few games where excessive slugging became prominent, I did dive in for a couple of matches and they were fun.
Regrettably, there shall always be players who attempt to ruin it for others. As 2v8 continues, those people will start to find ways to either act like wazzocks, or "optimise" their role. However, there will be many others who will try to play this mode for the better.
I'm hoping the devs are able to take onboard feedback regarding bad behaviours, and then use that feedback to make the mode better when it next comes out.
The very last game we had (6 man swf) the killers killed everyone off. My friend was on the run, searching for hatch. She ran through a pallet loop and Huntress steps in front of her. Both stop and stare at each other. My friend turns around and Wraith steps up behind her, trapping her between the two killers.
She turned to look between the two who nodded at her. Then she slowly hunkered down and lay her item on the ground. Both killers looked at each other, seemed to shrug and let her off the hook.
She then opened the exit gates and literally escaped with one mm left on the clock. That was so fun to watch.
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@Efrost said:
What are you even talking about. You get No where to hide for free. You get Call of the Brine for free, You dont have to carry you literally instant hook. And as the plethora of gens start to dwindle usually in a stuation that is basically a three gen because you cant get 8 suvivors to coordinate what would prevent it. It becomes crazy easy for killers to patrol them to the point where its impossible to finish them.
All very true, except the last part.
While you really can't coordinate gens, at the point it's "1 gen left", that's 6(!) Gens, not 3. 6 Gens is literally impossible to defend, I have never ever seen anything resembling a classic "dang, we ed ourself " situation in this gamemode.
It's only sorta possible, if he killers totally stomp and whittle the survivors down too soo, but otherwise the survivors a literally free to do any gen at any time, with just a smidgen of more importance to the main gen.
But thats one of the strengths of this game mode: no flashlight saves, no sabo, instant hooks, no 3-gens, no need to slug in 99%, no camping, much harder to tunnel. All this culminates in a game that's much less stressful then regular DbD, scen though it's much less shallow. But it was a real fun week for me and a big breath of fresh air.
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And the other glaring issue is this: the killers can only chase two survivors and if the others priorities gens only a little, the big metal boxes will fly like it's noones business. Heck, I have seen 5 finishing in rapid progression. And well, of the killer gets stuck in a prolonged chase, that's a more brutal GGEZ then in the main game.
It's actually the same as with the base game: that side with more gaming sense and fewer mistakes/missplays usually wins.
Killer working together can obviously down ANY survivor in a matter of seconds, but that leaves 7 unattended. It's only the turned off MMR that shoves utter potatoes into everyone's matches, that allows the big snowball for killers. I have had a couple of legit 23 hooks at 6 gens, but also so so many more escapes than in he base game. You can so often just sit on a gen for 90-skill checks seconds and just finish it uninterrupted, and that is only (barely) held in check but COMPLETELY omitting travel time and hooking from the equation.
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The very last game we had (6 man swf) the killers killed everyone off. My friend was on the run, searching for hatch. She ran through a pallet loop and Huntress steps in front of her. Both stop and stare at each other. My friend turns around and Wraith steps up behind her, trapping her between the two killers.
She turned to look between the two who nodded at her. Then she slowly hunkered down and lay her item on the ground. Both killers looked at each other, seemed to shrug and let her off the hook.
She then opened the exit gates and literally escaped with one mm left on the clock. That was so fun to watch.
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@Zakon05 said:
Please no, I don't want even more Trappers.
Hearing her hum means at least one of the killers isn't Trapper. And Huntress is 10000 times more fun to play against.
Trapper is weak in the base game, bot boi does he excel as a support killer. I had the main building in the Red Forest map completely locked down, one trap around a corner got 4 different survivors. That house was a literal deathtrap, and yet was it inevitable that the survivors had to loop there.
Naughty Bear ate well that night.
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You guys are not wrong, but 8v2 is very swingy in both directions. What would happen if the killers both dallied in 90s with the first competent survivor they ran into? Up to 6 gens pop. The mode only works, because nearly no one will bring 7 competent friends with them.
Though I wasn't aware that matchmaking was turned basically off. It makes sense, but yeah, real baby hunting sucks.
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You got 6 perk slots, two of which can be exhaustion perks and you suffer no exhaustion, exhaustion perks just go into cooldown. Would it be even possible to catch a survivor with this conditions? Well, probably, but it would be really tough. Just imagine a spring burst passively building up every 30s.
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I usually play with me regular SWF group, so we "only" have 4 randos in the team. The matches were the randos aren't allergic to gens usually are pretty smooth sailing, but I recon also very disheartening to the killer team. We have had situations where after the first big chase, gen 3-6 all finished like back to back. Seeing the number going from 6 to 2, just as the second survivor gets unhooked surely must suck.