Adjatha
Adjatha
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Also, don't forget that survivors killing themselves on hook super early typically leads to a 4k, which is then registered at BHVR HQ as "This killer is overperforming" and is used to justify nerfs.
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Very interesting project you have there. By all means, keep it up.
I'm not surprised to see Twins, Demo, Freddy, Pyramid Head, and Clown in the least-played killers. Three of those characters got nerfed severely, making their core ability feel bad to use. Clown got a "buff" in the least useful way possible, addressing none of his problems. And Demo can't be bought anymore, so you're just going to see less and less of him as people who already bought him leave the game.
Deathslinger's at 9 games, but I wonder how many of those were in your first 300 versus the most recent crop?
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@SunsetSherbet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2719352#Comment_2719352
People wouldn't enjoy it because there's no point trying to BM and ruin the day of an AI with your clicking and tbagging and other BM's. You can't bully an AI since it has no emotion.
That's pretty much what the argument against Bots boils down to. "I don't want to go against a bot. I want to feel like I'm getting one over on a stranger out there."
And I tell you what: we could even add a "Solo Queue" and "SWF Queue" to the killer options. So the default game is solo survivor vs. killer and the default team game is SWF vs. Bot, but on the RARE occasions when somebody feels like subjecting themselves to the wildly one-sided challenge, they can play as a killer vs a team. And hey! If that's an option, the survivors will never REALLY know if they were beating up on a bot or a person, so they can just pretend whatever they like.
It's like how, in a firing squad, one of the guns is loaded with blanks. So every person in the line can say to themselves: "I was the one with the blanks." But in this case, it's SWF teams saying "That was a real person we chain stunned, teabagged, sabo'd, and clicker macro'd."
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@ImBrakingBike said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2719191#Comment_2719191
So you, the company trying to sell a product that's supposed to be a 4v1 asymmetrical multiplayer game will just decide that from now on everyone who plays with friends will have to do this specific thing and won't be allowed to vs other players. How does it look?
This is a game to us the player base, but it's business to the developers, you can't just expect a solution that will be detrimental to their economic interests. That's not how the market works. Especially now when you have at least a couple of other DbD look-alikes and a potential rival with Bubba's new game next year.
With that same mindset, you could say that anyone that doesn't want to play against SWF could just go play some story mode single-player game. The idea is to try and find the best possible balance, but explicitly segregating a part of the player base is not the way.
And for the last paragraph, yes. Some people do play this game with friends to chill and not to stomp on anyone, same as some killers play to have fun and not to stomp on Solo Qs. Behind these "mains" there are people, and not everyone is out there hating on the other side or trying to stomp on anyone else.
And solo queue still WOULD be 4v1 asymmetrical. SWF would be an alternate game mode, which is exactly what it is.
And if you imagine that I would not immediately switch to All-Bot Survivors the very second it became available, you have gravely misread the situation. Bots is a beautiful solution to a fundamentally unbalanced game. If you want another human being on the other end of the connection, and you want to play using all the comms benefits that the majority of survivor players do not get access to, you will just have to accept that the game isn't going to balanced and killers will continue to do the scummiest, least fun play method to secure kills.
And hey: if you're perfectly fine with tunneling, camping, slugging, and potentially long queue times: then okay. That's your business and you've made your choice. I suspect most survivors are less enthusiastic about those things, though.
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@ImBrakingBike said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2719055#Comment_2719055
Bots will come eventually but not to eliminate SWFs. You can't promote a game by telling people they can't play with their friends because if they do all they get are bots, especially when the 4v1 asymmetrical genre is getting new faces out there
You can play with your friends. But your challenge is the computer. It becomes like Left 4 Dead or Back 4 Blood.
It's literally impossible to fix the advantages SWF have over solo queue without making a different queue. And having bot killers for SWF means they can tweak numbers up and down super easily to make every game a fun challenge. No more tunneling. No more camping. No more slugging. Have bots for all the killers and you get a wider experience than Nurse/Blight/Huntress/Spirit at high MMR. And best of all: instant queues. It's literally the solution to every complaint that survivors have.
The only thing that bot games take away from SWF is that the players are not stomping on other human players. So, if the only reason you play DbD is the chance to ruin another person's day, I guess bots would kill the game experience for you. But surely not ALL SWF groups are made just to easily stomp other players, right? It's about playing with your friends and having a chill time, right?
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SWF needs to have bot killers, not human players. Leave human killers and solo survivors to be balanced against one another and let SWF go against a bot that directly scales with the team's average MMR.
Bots can't come soon enough.
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My favorite is when survivors and killers all bring cakes and streamers, and then all the gens get blasted at maximum speed and, 3 minutes later, the survivors escape with 12,000 points.
Like... there was so much that could've been done with that kind of game. But heaven forbid survivors get hit, hooked, healed, chased, or any kind of gameplay interaction beyond M1 take place.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2717440#Comment_2717440
Or we could, like, fix both of these things instead of going "I refuse to let the other side have a decent experience because they're mean to me. No QoL should ever happen because some players don't deserve it." No? Because I think that might be a better idea.
Again, people aren't a hivemind. And as someone who plays both sides but prefers killer - gate tbaggers are more common than bleeders, but bleeding out is way more obnoxious when it happens because it lasts twice as long as tbagging at its longest and because there is nothing that can hasten its progression. It brings nothing to the game and there's no reason survivors should not be allowed to die when the game is irrevocably over. "It serves as a karmic balance for BM survivors can do" is bullshit. We shouldn't be enabling any of this, period.
Fixing a problem on both ends would be a lovely way to run a game. However, that is not the way that Dead By Daylight is run.
Lots of things in the game have problems with validation. So, are killer grabs validated? No, they're turned to attempted swings. Are killer powers validated? No, they just fail to connect or trigger, randomly. But Pallet stuns? Those get validated. Even when the code is so broken that the killer gets false game information. Is the graphical and sound bug fixed for killers? No, the same broken code is extended to Dead Hard validation.
I'd be happy to let survivors auto-kill themselves on the ground when everybody's been slugged. But that situation is so absurdly niche that pushing for some kind of systemic overhaul to stop this one-in-a-hundred situation is so blindly survivor-biased that it's actually very funny to me. Especially when, in the very same breath, the people calling for it are defending standing at the exit gates for no good reason on the grounds "well you can just walk over and force them to Dead Hard out." And that little 'stand at the gates,' problem happens in something approaching 100% of 4 escape games. But, you know, let's not solve the survivor delay that happens every time. Let's fix the killer delay that you might encounter a dozen or two times in the course of playing the game, ever.
Would it be nice to fix the Exit Gate and Bleed Out delay problems both at the same time? Well sure, of course it would. But that's not going to happen. And pretending that it's some horrible epidemic that has robbed you of years of your life and it absolutely must be addressed... well, that's just very, very silly.
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Haven't played it. But I wish they'd hold off on making more killers for awhile and put proper bot matches into the core game. Heck, they could even charge money for the "Bot Match option" if they're worried about the loss of income from not churning out buyable content every 3 months.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2717402#Comment_2717402
I appreciate you stealing my flowery wording to use against me (I expect royalties), but those are perks. Every killer has an M1 to force survivors out, but only three of 101 Survivor perks would help in this situation.
One of which can only be used once, one of which is reliant on the killer bringing something, and the other is politely throwing the game for your team.
Pure equivalency all around, i'd say.
But you haven't exactly told me why survivors shouldn't have an option to deal with being slugged to death. IE, bleed out faster.
If killers had a perk that said: "If all survivors are within 24 yards of the exit gate, one of the gloating survivors is prevented from leaving the trial," I would take that perk every time.
If killers had a button to push that unlocked once all gens were done and the gates were opened that just force-ended the match there and then and didn't rely on gloating survivors actually moving a fraction of an inch into the exit threshold, I'd push that button every time.
Considering that neither of those two things will ever happen, I see no reason why Survivors should get a quality of life ability to cut short a gloating killer's slugfest.
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If crouching and uncrouching ever got the kind of delay that would make it less obnoxious, I'm pretty sure 90% of the survivor player base would quit the game. It's not even seen as "bad manners" anymore. Just an inevitability. A right, enshrined in the very nature of human existence. Just look at the kinds of responses people post any time this topic comes up. You'd think it's the only reason they even bother playing the game in the first place.
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Body Blocking was more punishing for the survivor team before the era of 4 second heals.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2717370#Comment_2717370
You can actually force the survivors out if you can withstand the pain of your own wounded soul wilting under the hurt feelings generated by the CTRL key.
Slugged survivors have no option other than "wait out the whole timer, idiot".
I don't see why they shouldn't be given an option.
It's an intentional time waste that the survivors do specifically to try to hurt the killer's feelings or to self-aggrandize their own victory. Which is the same as letting all the survivors bleed out. Except, there's three survivor perks that let them get up from the downed state to prevent bleeding out. There's nothing killers have to penalize survivors who stand around and refuse to leave.
So, my recommendation would be: try running one of the numerous options you have to stop bleeding out, if you can withstand the pain and soul-wounding ignominy of not being equipped with your perfect meta build
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Re: OP's question:
- Doctor: the power is very straight forward, it helps you find survivors and get into chases, and (at low levels) the madness can slow down generator progress. He has several very good Addons and has great use with a bunch of the default perks. Note: his front-arc shock has terrible validation, and survivors often get to throw the pallet despite having been shocked.
- Freddy: his power help slow down loops and gives you map awareness. Being able to teleport also speeds up your chase potential and combos well with some perks. He was nerfed in the most asinine way possible, so he's appreciable less good and less fun to play, but his core kit is still relatively accessible.
- Leatherface: His power is both very strong and does not require too much additional practice to understand (unlike Hillbilly's nearly uncontrollable dash + overheat mechanic). All you really need to learn is counting down when you have to hit the power to extend your chainsawing and how to avoid running into obstacles.
- Clown: His power is useful and does not require the kind of accuracy that Huntress demands. His antidote bottles are an added layer of complexity that you can safely ignore - a 'buff' that basically did not solve his core weaknesses. That being said, he's not all that good. You can get decent play from him at lower MMR, but will quickly be blown out of the water if you win too much. Still, he's easy to use.
- And that's pretty much it. Every other killer either has layers of self-nerfs (pyramid head, legion), requires extensive practice to learn their power inside and out (spirit, oni), or has a totally different skill system that is extremely punishing to even attempt to use without already being a pro (nurse, blight)
It's also worth noting that Killers that are easy to use and do not require a lot of experience to use their powers inevitably get nerfed (Freddy, Wraith). Killers that are very hard to use and take a lot of practice to learn their powers typically do not get nerfed (blight, hag). Though, this is not always the case, as we saw with Bubba staying consistent (though he was awful original and got buffed to his current state), or Deathslinger (who required a whole special skill set to use his hooking usefully and got a tremendous nerf out of nowhere recently).
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Bleeding out survivors is certainly a pretty rude maneuver. But then, so is the whole survivor team standing at the exit gates and refusing to leave until the killer walks up so that the survivors can teabag and dead hard out of the gate.
Guess which one happens more often than the other.
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Games should be more dynamic, so I do like this idea in its essential concept. The exact nature of each stage's effects would have to be played around with, but having the stages be part of the threat would be an interesting concept.
Though, I'd rather the killer themselves warp the core gameplay elements through passive effects. Ideas like Freddy's "put you to sleep," or Nemesis' "wandering zombies," or Pinhead's "find the box" are all good examples that ought to be baked into every killer. The survivor play experience should not be identical when facing different killers. Variety is a good thing! Giving survivors different tasks, challenges, and interactions; these are all good things and help to keep the game fresh from one match to the next.
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Comms are certainly fun to use with friends when playing the game. They are also not even remotely balanced versus the non-comms survivor experience or any killer. SWF should just go up against bot killers, leaving the solos and killers to be balanced against one another.
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Because SBMM only applies to Survivors. Killer scores straight-up get thrown out to give high rating survivors faster queues.
The whole system was engineered to help the 80% of players, at the expense of the 20%.
Skill Based Match Making is not the problem. The fact that it is NOT BEING APPLIED to killers is the problem. If high skill survivors had to wait for an hour because there are no high ranked killers for them, the game would feel a zillion times better (and it would really show off how one-sided the game is at high values)
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It doesn't help that most of the boon totems are 2 existing survivor perks (but better) in one. So the 4 you're spreading to all the other players are actually 8, so each player is benefiting from 12 perks worth of buffs.
Circle of Healing: Self-Care at double speed + Botany Knowledge at 3x heal speed
Shadowstep: Lucky Break without needing to have been hit + Distortion with infinite charges
Exponential: Unbreakable but infinite times AND 3x recovery speed
It's honestly pretty embarrassing from a design stand point.
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You're right: those WOULD be balanced changes and the Devs will NEVER implement them.
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Take your pick from any of the following:
- Make it like Coup de Grace, and you build up one charge for every gen that gets finished.
- Remove invincibility to powers, and let it only sidestep m1 attacks (or use for distance mid-chase)
- Leaves a -5% movespeed Hindered effect after using it until you successfully drop chase
- Double or triple the recharge cooldown so survivors don't have it available every single time they see the killer
- Put a 30-45 second 'warm up' timer on it after you're injured before you can use it. So, you can't use it if you get hit and immediately get hit again, but if you're staying injured, you can use it just fine.
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Throw out all existing Add Ons and make a new set from the ground up. They're all trash currently. The only ones anybody uses are the shockwave range up, and those just train you to think you can hit further than you can normally. Totally useless purples and iridescents across the board. I just Prestiged him and didn't mind losing a whole ton of addons in the process because I wasn't going to get any benefit from them anyway.
I was using BBQ for the BP, but he's, like, the one killer who doesn't get the full bonus of BBQ due to the cage mechanic, so I don't use it anymore. Mostly just tracking (whispers, tinkerer) and slow down (ruin). Pop's out too, due to the cage thing. I'm All Ears has a good argument, except the survivors can see your shockwave path due to the absurd Warning Light that goes through terrain, so everybody just moves out of the way anyway, so I don't like it.
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@hiken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2710975#Comment_2710975
??????????????? it already does that if u dc enough.
Once is enough.
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I'd be fine with that if they expanded the DC penalty to, like, a week.
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@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2710858#Comment_2710858
lol? Do the 2 window shack again and watch how every survivor will run there with Overcome so you will never be able to catch a survivor again
And to OP:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/7MR1O0RMRYNZ/grafik.png
DBD is pretty fine, although there was a drop, we are still at a level 10% ABOVE May 2021 where DBD cracked the 40k mark for the first time. If you blend out the July hype the last year has been pretty stable and growing
And Im pretty sure you all refer to the "SWF time queue" which grows at like 5pm as people are finishing their work and play together. This has been a thing like 3 years now
Sure. Though, in the last 30 days there's been:
- A new killer and survivor
- A month-long bonus points event
- A multi-week, unique in-game event
- Free, earnable cosmetics
- Giving the game away for free on Epic Game Store
All that and growth is STILL down? Any other content release or seasonal event sees considerable player growth. Those numbers are a lot worse when you consider just how many things there are going on to get players playing.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2710846#Comment_2710846
Good, then BHVR will either do something about it if there's a significant enough playerbase drop or people will find new (or old, I've been playing Skyrim again personally) games to play & enjoy.
Unless you're getting paid to play this game, you have no excuse to keep torturing yourself over it. Especially when you're like OP and you make it sound like the experiences' you've had spell the end of the world.
Yup. I quit after the Wraith/Deathslinger/Pinhead nerf and I finally gave FF14 a chance. Queue problems notwithstanding, it's actually pretty good.
Thanks bad Balance team! Without your help, I'd still be playing your game instead of trying out a new one!
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Metroid Dread is about has challenging as playing a killer in DbD right now, but the controls are actually responsive, the game never lies to you about fake hits, the bosses don't teabag you, the Game Over screen isn't delayed by the boss refusing to just wrap up the match, and Samus' controls, powers, upgrades, and movement is guaranteed not to get nerfed 2 weeks after you buy in.
What a dream. A hard game without bad controls, intentionally obtuse balancing failures, or obnoxiously abusive behavior from the opposition.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
I mean you are allowed to have that opinion.
Doesn’t mean it’s true. I still play killer and enjoy most of my matches with the one here and there where someone dc’s, that I don’t.
Do you count the ones where survivors suicide on their first hook? Because the Stat Crunchers responsible for super early killer nerfs certainly do.
"I've never seen this killer before and I don't know what his power does. I'm just going to kill myself and move on to the next game." And then, a man down, the killer usually gets the others. And then, the stats come back "oh he's Overperforming. Better nerf the power to the ground." And by the time survivors DO learn how to deal with the killer power, the killer's so weak that playing him is an exercise in futility.
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It's almost as if killer baseline powers need to stop being nerfed or buff-then-nerf in rubberband, knee jerk, reactionary responses. The killers end up feeling awful and the players have to re-learn the whole control scheme on the fly, unlearning muscle memory just because survivors can't be asked to modify their default behaviors from one game to the next.
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Much like fighting games, DbD needs better netcode. Get some Rollback - Input Delay blending going on there so this problem works as intended without being a constant headache of fake hits every game.
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It would be better if all killers were designed to be fun to play, instead of so many being designed intentionally obtuse, with throttled movement, punishing cool downs, arbitrary restrictions, and a steady stream of QoL nerfs.
They add Boon Totems and survivors get:
- A white aura they can all see to know where the boons are
- A boon buff notification in the right corner of the screen when they're in it
- A blue haze overlay around the corners of the screen when they're in it
Meanwhile, Huntress still doesn't get a crosshair when aiming. It's so embarrassingly one-sided.
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When? Sooner than you'd think, but not as soon as you'd hope, I'm sure.
It's a race to the bottom.
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Make SWF 3+ go against bot killers that scale in difficulty based on MMR. Then the game can be balanced for solo queue because killer players will never get more than 2 people on a team in their games. Boom: faster queues AND the killer doesn't have to deal with 4-man teams body blocking and unavoidable flashlight locker blinds.
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@Steel_Eyed said:
The radius for boons makes sense for Shadowstep and Jonah's new perk. COH just buffs healing too much imo. Reduce it to fifty percent or (going nuclear:) remove the self care option (unless a survivor brings self care).
CoH gets all the flak because it's so wildly unfair in every sense, but Shadow Step is actually just about as abusive when 2+ players take it. Imagine covering half of the map with "no scratch marks" zones. If you can break line of sight, you can just about escape every chase, every time.
CoH is certainly the big problem, but ALL boons need their radiuses dropped by a ton (or just limit it to 1 boon totem up on a map at any given time)
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Every boon so far has included the effects of 2+ existing perks, except better in every way. So, a boon that gives you Lithe and Balanced Landing at the same time? More likely than you might think.
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Quick fun fact: Boons have a radius of 24 meters. That sounds pretty small, right? Well, that's the radius. If you consider the area of the circle that accounts for, it's 1,809 m^2.
Most maps vary from 8,000 to 11,000 m^2, in which a single boon covers approximately 20% of the map! If you have two boons up, nearly half the map is affected. And that's not even considering the small maps. Midwich is only 4,096 m^2, so a single boon covers 44% of the first floor of the map!
They seem weaker weaker on bigger maps, but even on Mother's Dwelling (12032 m^2), a single boon covers 15% of the map. To give you an idea of how much that covers, if you were on the far end of the map, it would take 21 seconds to run into the boon's radius. That 21 seconds is more than compensated by the 100% heal speed buff + self healing option. If you were using Self-Care, you'd spend 32 seconds anywhere on the map. If you are using a boon, you would have to run for a maximum of 21 seconds and a further 16 seconds, for 37 seconds total. And that's assuming you were the furthest possible distance on the largest map.
But that's not all! Boons also go up and down to multiple levels! If you put a boon up on The Game, you're getting the bonus on both levels, for over 60% map coverage!
So remember: The next time you hear "but boons have a limited range," they cover a LOT more than that 24 m radius first suggests.
(They should PROBABLY be, like 8m and not go through floors and ceilings)
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You can get to 1 million using normal gameplay. Any additional bp through logging in (seasonal event or a "we're sorry the game broke") goes into its own pool, which doesn't have a cap. The same goes for promo codes. So, if you were at 1 million at the start of this seasonal event, you could get +1 million from logging in from Dec 1 to Jan 4th, and a further 850,000 from recent promo codex for a total of 2,850,000 BP
But that assumes you're not spending anything and just sitting on the points.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2707410#Comment_2707410
True, it would be great if the game was balanced to account for people on comms.
But it's weird to act like people just getting together and playing a fun party game with their friends is impossible and only consummate professionals and Satan's left testicle do SWF.
I'm sure MOST people don't group up to be a crack squad. But I can also assure you that MOST people who do SWF are also on comms. And even the slightest call out is info that solo queue players don't get. It's just flat-out not fair, no matter how casual your group might be.
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The Thing provides far more interesting gameplay, by giving the game a "TF2 Spy" dynamic. Look like the team's Nea until you get close then it splits apart into a body horror nightmare. Plus, it'd encourage teams to stay grouped up so they can't be deceived by an approaching team mate (which helps slow down the 'everybody on a gen' default rush strat)
As for the Alien... I feel like Twins was ORIGINALLY supposed to be a Xenomorph. You lay the egg, which spawns a Facehugger. The facehugger scrambles about rapidly and eventually pounces on the survivor. If they were already injured, it matures into a Chestburster, to down them and keep going.
But then, I'm also pretty sure the Artist was supposed to be a Candyman killer. She summons crows but they could've easily been bees. Sends them out to locate people and if they get hit once, they swarm. Hit twice and they start stinging like crazy. And bees can actually hover in place, unlike a flock of crows. Plus, her inky-arm is basically just the crowbar in the arm stump Candyman has.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2706715#Comment_2706715
Agreed, they should change the name to "Survive with Tournament Allies".
Friends aren't real.
And if you want to play with friends, that's great. By all means, play this game format that is specifically balanced to account for all of your friends being able to chat and hang out. But keep that out of the base game, which is not even remotely balanced for it.
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His box should be the full point of the thing. Bake his "survivors can't see the box till the hunt start" addon in, and make hitting with his controlled chains speed up the time till the next hunt. Then, make the checks for solving the box actually HARD.
He would be so much more interesting if his power was expressly a "hits all survivors at once," instead of the "hits one player" that every other killer in the game has.
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Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
Seriously though, once you have the basic controls of the game down, survivors have zero respect for the killer because the game is built in such a way that it is SUPPOSED to protect them from get auto-downed. But, with any degree of team coordination, you turn those defensive abilities into offensive ones. And suddenly, the "hide and run" role becomes the "intervene and attack" one. It completely ruins the atmosphere of the whole thing.
And the Exit Gates thing would be great. I despise having to go to both exit gates to get survivors to just leave the game. It's like: okay, you all got out. Great. Now leave, collect your points, and move on. But no! It's CRITICAL that I walk over to see them teabagging and Dead Harding through the exit. If you're sticking around, there needs to be some REAL danger. Some sort of punishment for all the hubris.
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The Devs explicitly made some killer powers control badly. Like, "your thing is hard to use and fights against you every step of the way" bad. It's like that Wimp Lo joke from Kung Pow: Enter The Fist - "We purposely trained him wrong, as a joke."
As far as I can figure it, they see "the power feels bad to use and is extremely hard to compensate for terrible controls" as part of the intended gameplay. Like, it's not enough to play the game, you also have to deal with a totally different control scheme just to use your power (but only for SOME killers)
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@Adamant_Tepig said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2706732#Comment_2706732
I remember seeing in Otz's 50 winstreak video he explained what Nemmy's tentacle hitbox was, I'mma grab that for ya real quick so we can both see.
https://youtu.be/Jx0EaeZUAU4?t=213
Personally, I find Nemesis to be similar to Huntress at pallets when it comes to playing around those loops, but trades off an extra hit for having that super fast windup (and breaking pallets with it at Tier 2, which is pretty good if you can get Tier 2 up early).
Overall though, I like playing both PH and Nemmy as they both have their own strengths I do my best to try and utilize while also playing as fair as I can unless I have to sweat.
Ah, the sustained hit while strafing would be the 'conical' effect I'd observed. Interesting.
While PH and Nemesis play in a similar but different fashion, I still think Nemesis is better designed, even with the buggy zombies and the 3-hit infection. And the single reason for this is: Controlling him feels good. It feels good to pull out the tentacle and use it. When you're trying to use PH's power, you're fighting against the controls. You're slow, cumbersome, limited, unable to move normally, at the mercy of long delays and unclear positioning, and buried under mountains of plainly overcompensating restrictions.
It feels like getting a hit with Nemesis is you working with your character to do a good job. Getting a hit with Pyramid Head feels like you've triumphed over the bad controls that have been baked into the character himself.
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@Adamant_Tepig said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2706685#Comment_2706685
I dunno about Wraith, Billy, and Freddy personally, but I can see the argument with their good mobility and the latter's teleport. I will give you Blight and Oni though for free, both are fun and strong.
Nemesis I kinda disagree with, since he has the same mobility as PH, and while his tentacle is a faster animation overall imo, the extra hit needed to get a down on a survivor with just M2s (3 hits compared to PH's 2) in exchange for better map awareness with the zombies doesn't seem to balance out completely since the zombies are inconsistent at best.
I will admit that Nemesis' inconsistent zombie AI is his biggest nerf. If the zombies ALWAYS moved towards survivors, he would be an amazing killer, even with the 3rd health state. THEORETICALLY, that's a bug that MIGHT be fixed sometime in the future. But, regardless, the tentacle goes out faster (0.35 sec charge time to PH's 1 sec charge), does not hinder turning, allows for proper flicks, DOES NOT forecast its hit path for the survivors to plainly see where they need to step to completely avoid it, and hits the full 5/6 meters instantly as opposed to a delayed wave that gives people further away even more time to dodge it. Also, I could be mistaken, but I believe Nemesis' tentacle is a cone attack, so it's far harder to side step than PH's super narrow beam.
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@TheSubstitute said:
I thought I would write this after reading the threads about Tru's video and the one on Lightborn. To understate it, there appears to be a lot of differing opinions on the subject
In my opinion, a lot of the debate comes from differing opinions of 'win' and 'fun'. For me, I win if I have fun; that doesn't necessarily mean kills. A fun game where I get 6 to 8 hooks but zero kills but done in a fun, cool to play against the survivors game is a win to me. Against a bully squad whose only purpose is to annoy me a 4K or 3K with one hatch escape isn't a 'win' because, yeah, I killed the survivors but the game wasn't fun.
For me, a close match where the survivors escape and then tell me my character was terrifying is more fun than when survivors mess around with me just to try to ruin my game and I end up killing all four of them because they eventually will make a mistake and also stick around too long. In one there was player enjoyment and, in the other, there was just antagonistic sweaty tension.
How about you? How does the concept of enjoyment relate to your win condition?
3-4 man SWF groups aren't into the game for the atmosphere or challenge. They want escapes. Which is why 3-4 man SWF should get randomized Bot Killers. If all they want is to bully, sweat, and slam gens as hard as possible, let them go up against an automated antagonist. Save the killer players for solos and duos who might actually experience the suspense, tension, and surprise of going up against a real player.
The 3-4 SWF get auto-queues because the game just generates a killer for them, while all the solos get much faster queues because all the killer players are reserved for them. And then the game can be balanced around the Solo Queue experience without killer SWF squads unfairly profiting off of game tweaks. Plus, they can just adjust the killer bots to cheat at higher MMRs, with faster movespeeds/recovery so the SWF folk get a challenge no matter how broken they set up their team.
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All skill checks in the game should scale up and down based on your MMR. If you're a new player like the OP here, their skill checks should be easier than they are now. If you're a 1000+ hrs pro, who escapes 9 times out of 10 and always played with 3 friends, your skill checks should be absurdly, near-impossibly difficult.
Put the "skill" back in Skill Check.
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@Adamant_Tepig said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2706625#Comment_2706625
So which 4.6 m/s killers can do a better job than PH? Just curious.
Blight, Bubba, Oni, Artist, and Nemesis are all better. Even post-nerf Billy, Wraith, and Freddy. You could make a strong argument for Demogorgon, since his power is basically the same (low range distance hit) but works on any long tile (not just animation lock ones) as well as just in normal field chases.
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Pound for pound, PH is the most over-hyped killer in the game for his actual power level.. He's 4.6, so he can just be played as a 'walk around and swing' killer and do passably well. His actual powers are absurdly over-valued by just about everyone. If you play PH and do well, guess what? You could be doing way better with any other comparable killer.
- He has the worst AddOns of any killer in the game and they have never been touched despite a whole series of nerfs to his power and rework of all his perks.
- His shockwave has been balanced (and then nerfed) such that it is only useable on locked-in animation points like vaults and pallets and nowhere else.
- His torment trails are wildly over-restricted and 100% in the hands of the survivors to evade.
- He has one of, if not the least stealthy profiles, with a gigantic size/shape and overwhelmingly loud sound cues that advertise him even while Undetectable.
- His cages are hilariously nothing. The fact that they shut off a handful of absurdly overused survivor perks says more about how insanely powerful those perks are and nothing about HIS actual power level.
His Torment Trails have SO MANY limitations behind them and nearly all of his addons rely on that totally worthless part of his kit. PH is mid-to-low B tier and people like to pretend he's S-tier. And because people like to lie to themselves about how good he is, there will never be a rework to make his kit less obnoxiously restrictive than it is.
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Random killer selection would work well for a "No SWF" casual game mode.
But the devs have repeatedly stated that they do not want to put in different game modes because that would split the queue and make lobby times longer. Never mind that expanding the game in interesting ways would attract new players or bring back players who left because the core game has grown boring (or because SWF is unbearable).