TenTrillion
TenTrillion
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- TenTrillion
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@Uxoxe said:
The developers should allow survivors to DC without penalty and the developers should allow killers to open the exit gate at any time.
The game can be extremely unfun and allowing players to exit the game without penalty should be implemented until the developers decide to spend some time on game health.
i agree with this, purely for the sake of letting survivors get out of games they don't want to be in. Coming from a heavy killer main here
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well this blew up overnight lol.. it's showing the surv mains from the people who can see both sides
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@Melinko said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498179#Comment_3498179
I've never seen a bully squad or any survivor group avoid doing last gen. They will always finish the gens before the hard trolling starts.
In this instance as others have said, open the gate and go find some stuff to break. They will leave or end up as a sacrifice.
"i've never seen it so it doesn't exist"
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497212#Comment_3497212
First off, players shouldn't DC or go AFK, and I think the penalties are all justified.
And there's some truth in what you said, but we all know how matchmaking is. If the game is so mismatched that the killer can't get a down in 10 minutes, they're not going to learn much from it, and the surv team has no reason to toy around with them other than for the sake of it (powertripping), which is the ultimate in tiny d energy.
If the OP's account is accurate, that is bullying, not a perception issue. And yes, people cry bullying over all kinds of tiny crap. But exerting your power over another simply because you can and not because you need to is bullying.
If you're a little league team who gets thrown into a game against major leaguers who just won't take their foot of the gas, "get better" isn't constructive criticism.
If you play this game enough, you're gonna end up on one side or the other of a major mismatch (or lots of them, probably). If you're that much better than your opponent, just finish the game and go, ffs.
one of the best comments ive seen on the entire forums. Good feedback, ty
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except for the part where if it's before the gens are done, i physically cannot force the survivors to finish the game.
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at least you brought up a decent point rather than just being braindead, so thanks for that. But STILL. What if they hadn't done all gens? and what can i do to "get better" at the game when they are moving at 120% speed or more? I physically can't do anything when they move that much faster than me. I can't even start chase, and when i do i don't even catch up until i get bloodlust. If it was before all gens and i gave up, or heck, had something important to do, why should i be punished for it?
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..wow, so i really got disconnected for being bullied. Great job, BHVR
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@Spectralfx said:
in a world where the survivor can see the killer at all times due to holes in walls or small cars, there is no mind game anymore. the survivors sees what you are doing, if you fake swing your recovery is so long that they are already at the next pallet.
I am not ignoring what anyone writes, my experience with the game simply leads me to disagree.
as an Oni main I ditched the killer for now, I play knight and huntress and camp basement very very hard, this is how I get result by forcing survivors to do the 2-3 man rescue. its the only thing I know of that can force their hand and and believe me, they are salty about it.
but honestly, I would much prefer play differently, it's just not effective and that's fact, agree to disagree but stop telling others to "use their brains" that is very disrespectful.
this persons initial 2 lines are beyond true. It's near impossible.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373078#Comment_3373078
I'm going by my experience in game. I bait it out a lot. I play a lot of survivors like that too and sometimes they do force a dead hard on pallets, and you know what? I just eat the pallet, they lose DH either way. But I can deal with that, can't end every chase quickly. But just as often they are forced to try and use it in the open and I get them. Good survivors are going to use it effectively. So I switch up my tactics. If you don't like being forced on pallets, play demo and shred them, or run spirit fury, or brutal strength endurance if that particular tactic irks you so much.
And some killers directly counter it, can't DH a deathslinger when he spears you, legion makes it extremely hard to get off, with blight you'll hit the DH and he'll just come sprinting at you again in a few seconds. Tbh I'm fine with getting DHd as a huntress, blight, raging oni or demo etc. Because those powers are designed to shorten chases. So being able to pull that back a bit is good for balance.
Edit: dead hard scripters do exist and definitely deserve bans for it. I've seen a few players I suspect of it as they hit like 6-7 DHs in a game even in the most insane situations where they had no chance to react. But they are rare.
The thing is, your power is there to extend chase because the game isn't physically possible vs any half decent survivors without it. Your solution of "run these 2/3 perks" doesn't work. It never works for anyone. I shouldn't be required to run any single perk to win. I should be able to run my own fun build. And you still haven't adressed the other plethora of things. And the one you have for blight, it still took away that initial down the blight earned.
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@AMOGUS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372861#Comment_3372861
Alright, have you considered... faking swings then? Because there are indeed people who time DHs based off of swings... but then you use that against them.
And then, when they DH and drop the pallet, you later lunge at them because they will be slightly inclined to believe you might not do that again... I'm not even going into the full picture here.
Do any of you play fighting games, at all? Because several core concepts of winning matches in those games work with DBD.
they don't. Trust me. I try many things vs many survivors. Moonwalking, swinging with a maybe 0.5s lunge, tapping, waiting, flicking up to bait, faking powers. Some survivors fall for nothing. At all. Some survivors are basically unable to be caught. ESPECIALLY with m1 killers.
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@Spectralfx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372814#Comment_3372814
I fail to come to agreement with you.
I believe the perk should get nerfed.
If eruption needed to get nerfed, than so does dead hard, end of story.
this
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372644#Comment_3372644
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372645#Comment_3372645
I love it when people claim there are X things that prove their point then refuse to elaborate, makes for a very strong argument. Pallets are the only reliable way to force deadhard. Vaults are too dicey vaulting takes too long and you take a hit. running at killer? Can easily be read and baited out. While bodyblocking? More reliable as killers will rush actions while carrying a surv but that is a hella risky tactic and often fails, all you've done is taken a deep wound, exhaustion and the person you were trying to help still gets hooked.
And I've played M1 killers a fair bit, and i bait it out all of the time. It doesn't take 8 seconds. As soon as you're on the survs ass they will pop it, and if you do a basic attack without a lunge it's impossible for them to time it right reliably, they have to guess.
If you stuggle agsinst dead hard and are losing games because you swing into it 6 or 7 times a game that is a skill issue. Plain and simple. Younjust need tonnot swing at the first available instant, hold for literally one second and then you get the down.
I often play very sweaty SWF teams, and once I get a read on which players want me to chase them, it's so easy to predict who uses DH, counterplay and make them dab early just for me to hit them. I still swing into it occasionally. But hey that's the game. I definitely bait more than I swing into
your description lowerd my opinion of you. Wanna know something? I wait out when i have the chance, and ssit on the survivors ass. Now, either i'm facing a lot of cheaters, or some lucky ass people. cuz i click my mouse button, and 7/10 times they'll get the deadhard off. This is excluding the existence of a pallet or window, in a rough deadzone. You don't know you're facing a sweaty swf until you get demolished by one. Such as a survivor who is impossible to mindgame at shack, forcing all 3 window vaults and possibly the pallet dropped. Then taking you across the map to some more loops they'll be impossible to mindgame at because they know exactly how to perfectly loop everything. One thing i'll say is it can be very easy to see who is a deadhard user. Someone looking right back is a dead giveaway. But it still isn't just as simple as you're making it out to be. Wanna know the other situations? Any ranged killer using their power. Demo shredding when they're just about to go through a pallet, shredding on a tight corner, etc. Blight, Nurse can even be held back a recharge because of it, huntress easily loses a down to deadhard if she hasn't got a specific addon, trickster. See how its extending far beyond m1 killers here? Plague, pig with her dash, artist too. It's a menace.
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@AMOGUS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372790#Comment_3372790
Nah. You can try using your brain instead. The "pallet cheese" thing does have a counter to it, built in.
And of course, you want the perk deleted from the game. All because you don't know how to counter it. It's so predictable at this point. Scott Jund is dead-on correct in saying not to browse these forums.
You clearly don't face survivors who time the deadhards well enough at pallets then. If they're really amazing, they will time it when you swing. Else the pallet goes down. It's not counterable.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372564#Comment_3372564
So the only defence now is that the perk is powerful when looping a pallet. Which is directly counterable by a lot of killers.
Doesn't really fit the definition of a "broken" perk.
if it removes the capability for every m1 killer to counterplay, it is broken.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372453#Comment_3372453
You're saying this like survs force it at every pallet ever. Which doesn't happen.
Like you're saying a perk is broken because it performs well in a super specific circumstance, that can only be done by high skill survivor players.
i name the biggest offender. Do you want me to sit here and write paragraphs about every situation a survivor can force a deadhard? Theres a minimum of 8 of them. There is a lot where its almost-certain, and some where it's just guessing. And lets not mention, deadhard removes the concept of lunging. Yknow, that thing to let killers get a hit from a bit further away? SO instead, killers have to sniff the asscrack of the survivors for 8 seconds at a time?
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372351#Comment_3372351
Waiting 1 second for a hit isn't an issue though. If dead hard lasted longer I could see why it would need changing. But 0.5 secs requires tight timing. You're saying it's an auto 3rd health state and it really isn't.
If it was I would agree, Nerf required. But it's easy to mis time, especially if killer expects it. I would love to see a a statistic of how many DHs people whiff versus hit.
In my experience as survivor I hit maybe 40% of my dead hard attempts at the absolute max. As killer feels about the same give or take.
thats what you see - other people, more skilled or less, may have a different experience. And once again. People can force it at pallets vs every single killer who has to m1 at a specific pallet. There is a lot of pallets. As well as this, people bodyblocking force you to hit them in certain spaces, of which they can deadhard to get another healthstate to bodyblock with. It's just a dumb perk, it needs nerfing.
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@TenTrillion said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372223#Comment_3372223
you kind of redialed at the first little bit there so i'll just ignore it, especially since nobody said balance the game around streamers.
And yeah, swinging into deadhard isn't always a loss, survivors can be mid at looping. Pretty much any loop survivors can turn in their favour. Even LT walls. Their manipulation of the camera can ensure there is no mindgame, and that they always win, getting maximum value out of those loops. But deadhard itself is the core of frustration for a lot of people, you literally have to postpone hitting someone to down them. You should be able to down them when the games design called for it. Injured to downed. That should be how it goes. Without deadhard, lots of new players would start getting better a lot faster i feel. No stupid 3rd healthsate crutch needed.
and may i also add - Killers shouldn't require gen regression perks to win. They should be able to have fun with perks and win.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372092#Comment_3372092
You keep banging on about one niche situation. One that a lot of killers can easily play around or directly counterplay. Counter loop, stealth, map traversal. That doesn't make dh broken or unbalanced.
And I don't watch these streamers so can't really comment on howuch they struggle with DH BUT I certainly don't think we should balance the game around streamers.
Even at high levels of play, against a good killer DH can't carry the game on it's own. In one of these discussions recently someone posted a tournament video of an Oni who swung into dead hard 5 times in the match. And still got a 4k. It was used by all the survs in the game, used effectively and they still lost. At the highest possible level of play. Imagine how short that game would've been if they couldn't use it. A broken perk is one that is insanely easy to use, with little to no counter play, that makes it impossible for one side to win. Eruption did that, when I used eruption as killer it was practically an auto win and it was next to impossible to counterplay especially in solo q. DH does not. It's the most used surv perk in the game and yet the kill rate is above 60%
when I play killer, which I do frequently, and at my mmr I see a LOT of prestige 80+ players, I counterplay DH all the time. Against players with 5-10times as much playtime as I do. Sure I swing into it, and when it happens it's frustrating. But I know the surv made a good play and I respect that.
I think most killer mains have the mentality that it's the perk that frustrates them the most, and frequently so they call for it to be removed/nerfed. A hard timer on it I would be fine with, but any harder nerf/removal and you'd really be hamstringing survivors in general and kill rates would definitely jump to unpleasant levels.
you kind of redialed at the first little bit there so i'll just ignore it, especially since nobody said balance the game around streamers.
And yeah, swinging into deadhard isn't always a loss, survivors can be mid at looping. Pretty much any loop survivors can turn in their favour. Even LT walls. Their manipulation of the camera can ensure there is no mindgame, and that they always win, getting maximum value out of those loops. But deadhard itself is the core of frustration for a lot of people, you literally have to postpone hitting someone to down them. You should be able to down them when the games design called for it. Injured to downed. That should be how it goes. Without deadhard, lots of new players would start getting better a lot faster i feel. No stupid 3rd healthsate crutch needed.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3371848#Comment_3371848
-"Otz is, I would imagine, as one of DBD's more prominent streamers, against some of the best Survivors in the game."
Actually no. Otz plays against lot of potato players. Maybe they mess around because they know they are on his stream? /shrug.
If you hop over to Lilith's stream you usually see a lot more crazy skilled survivors. The same is true over on Truetalent's stream.
Regardless there is no counter to DH if there is a pallet nearby. You swing and hit the DH or you eat the pallet. Either way you lose as killer.
It would be one thing if DH had a 15 second count down clock where you automatically went down after a DH unless you literally stopped to mend ( this would basically make it so that running with DH would not stop the deep wound progress).
this is actually something interetsting, you typically see otz play more chill survivors. Tru3, on the other hand, faces some crazy stuff a lot of the time. (or maybe i just feel like it's more because he shows more crazy survivors on his channel, but then again he posts tons of videos, so..)
I wouldn't be at all surprised if the devs changed otz' profile to make him face survivors at a lower level so the "figurehead" of dbd content can make the game seem more appealing. Though, he does go vs some crazy crap himself.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3371584#Comment_3371584
You are focussing on one specific, very niche situation. That can only be pulled off by very high skill survivors. And is only really punishing for true m1 killers.
Shall we nerf all the situations killers can get a win win situation? Trapper making a basement unhook impossible with 3 traps? Facecamping a surv during end game? Killers forcing a 3 gen from the start with hardcore regression perks? Tunneling someone straight off hook? (DH ain't gonna help you there) Lightborn because it stops torches and totally nullufies 2 perks? No, because at the end of the day killer is the power roll and as such can control how the game will go. And a lot of these examples are much more unfair than dh because they have literally no counterplay.
Survs need good perks, and dh is good for sure. A 3rd health state is strong. But aside from pallets there is no situation where the surv can force killer to swing into it. It is skill based, not broken and not an auto health state.
It's partially skill based, and partially trying to force it. You mentioned something specific there, too. Basement trapper. And i absolutely agree, it shouldn't be possible to make it physically impossible to do anything. It's a reason 99% of the playerbase hates bubba. You cannot physically save the person hooked. Something of similar effect is true for myers, if pulled off correctly. And those take 0 skill period (except the myers one). A Killer tunelling a DH player makes obscene sense when they've seen 4 deadhards. Why risk it? get others to come bodyblock instead. In an ideal world, Deadhard would have something to the effect of something suggested prior, actually. It saves you from a down, but only for a limited time. Perhaps a new status effect called "Last Legs" or something. 10-20 seconds of standing up before going down, running out even when sprinting or vaulting. Then, it's just an extention of the last hit, rather than a completely extra hit. I'll stick to what i said before, and always will. No perk should give a health state at the press of a button for free. Deadhard is the only perk that does it. It needs changing.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3371047#Comment_3371047
It only destroys M1 killers if that player can't counterplay it, that is a skill issue. Most of them have mechanics designed to shorten or bypass chases: traps, exposed etc anyway. And using it on a pallet like that requires pinpoint timing and doesn't always work, you have a slight gap between the dh animation and actually dropping the pallet. That requires a lot of skill to pull off and with the amount of antiloop killers it doesn'taffect every killer that badly. As killer you can't expect to outplay every survivor in every situation.
Admittedly it sees a lot of use because it is a good perk. But unhealthy and broken? I really can't agree with that, it's high risk high reward. I play killer and surv about the same and I get value out of it sometimes as surv and sometimes I get downed. As killer I've got used to counterplaying it very quickly. It still swing in to it sometimes but more often than not I bait it out.
If it was literally an automatic health state with no counterplay then I'd agree with you. But it has counterplay, and it's not like there aren't multiple killers who can cut the survs down to one healthstate consistently. Technically any killer can using perks. DH is fine as it. If I had to change it I'd maybe make it so the DH deep wound ticks down while sprinting still so it extends the chase but makes it hard to juice it for a full minute or more.
it's not a skill issue when you physically cannot outplay it at pallets when survivors are greedy. You are REQUIRED to take the deadhard hit, a hit the survivor SHOULD have thrown the pallet to evade, but they just get an extra healthstate and a saved pallet. It's completely stupid, there should be no perk in the game that you press a button for to get an extra healthstate. Mettle of man is fine, it requires setup. Deadhard is broken.
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@xEmoGirlxAlexisx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370400#Comment_3370400
But a Meta Perk shouldnt be so strong it destroys all m1 killers
U cant Counter it on Paletts u will always eat the Palett or DH u cant bait it
DH is unhealthy and broken and Need to be fully reworked u cleary can Feel it when a Game doesnt have DH or a Game whit 2/4 Survivors who use DH its 2 different worlds because the Perk is so impactful
Und im Not going to play only Nurse or Blight just because the devs cant balance this mess of a Perk
this! You feel it on both sides, too. it's unfun to play as for me, as well as against
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You physically cannot say deadhard isn't broken. It literally changes the game by being a perk. You physically cannot counter it in some situations. The way you want me to "counter" it is by not using any killer power to progress my objective in order to have them waste it. You want killers to stop using powers to bait it out. You make no sense.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370115#Comment_3370115
You can play blight and by the end of the match it's nearly guaranteed to know if they have auto dh or not.
"play this one killer" NO! I want to have fun playing my main killers, demo legion and sadako!
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/367829/just-delete-it
So you're saying a perk should be deleted after one bad game? Just because you got matched with what was clearly a dedicated, sweaty bully squad outside your skill level doesn't mean dh is broken. You said yourself you baited out 5 of them in the one game. Yh, sounds like they were playing obnoxiously, and I'd say they are the problem rather than the perk.
If you lost a 3 slug situation by getting DHd multiple times you were definitely swinging far too early. Bully squads require a particular style of play to counter and you didn't manage it. They frustrated you and you played straight into their hands by going for the quick hits. Best option in that situation is make sure you slap one on a hook. Preferably the first one you downed because they'd be self recovered the most.
As a fellow demo player I never use shred lunges on an injured surv I even suspect might have DH. And I'm very used to baiting it out. Had a prestige 95 leon last night with over 100 days play time, a very good chase runner. Struggled to catch them until late game when I had 2 dead and 2 gens left so I could afford long chases. They tried to DH me 3 times, all 3 failed and they got hooked 3 times. Literally all you have to do to counter DH is not swing at the first possible opportunity, you see them dab and then bam, down.
When I play surv using DH it's a very dicey perk, forcing a dh is a very obvious strategy and if you run at killers they'll very often hold off on the hit, hitting it reactively in a chase is very hard, unless they go for a long lunge.
I gave one game as example. The perk literally changes the game itself. It needs to be removed
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this equates to "Prepare for it before it happens". You shouldn't need to. And for this, you need lots of communication, and go sacrifice lots of pressure earlygame to try break it before it even happens
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@KingFieldShipper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370098#Comment_3370098
I don't know what you specifically want them to do specifically for auto dh, they are constantly banning cheaters. As long as cheats exist, it's always going to be a cat and mouse game. Also I'm not convinced most people deal with auto-dh that much as people say they do, and they are just going against people who time dh well.
The thing is, you can't tell. you can time a hit completely randomly and they'll deadhard. It can happen 8 times in one game. It could be a normal person or a cheater. You'd never know. This is another reason it just shouldn't give another healthstate.
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since i'm half decent, i just hear him coming. It's just a case of watching my teammates die while he can't touch me. And it's frustrating as hell.
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i dc the second i hear the box, not gonna lie. He's the most unfun killer to face for me. Having my movement basically halted just isn't fun, especially when he can have t he chain fly past me yet still hook me because of his ping.
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i at least can sui on hook if i'm feeling really bad. I can simply just wait for my team to do gens otherwise. In one, gens are done. In another, we just sit there watching gens go down slowly.
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@MrPeanutbutter said:
Let’s also not forget to mention the plague of auto DH script runners which the devs have yet to address
LITERALLYYY
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@[Deleted User] said:
With all the arguments given to Dead Hard in the past several months, I honestly do see how the devs will not change this perk.
I don't want to sound out of my way and "sided", but it's the most complained perk in the entire game and has been for several years just now it's hard on track.
Personally I am sick of Dead Hard subjects, but bless as it's still there. I cannot blame anyone for saying anything.
No, the comment doesn't seem sided at all. I just really think there shouldn't be a "3rd health state" perk except mettle of man. You WORK for that. Deadhard you don't. and vs a few killers, most in fact, you can force it. Demo, huntress (at a closer range for biggest difference) trickster, pig, m1 killlers etc. Killers with a range attack you can react, it's very easy. Killers who are m1, you simply go greedy with the loop, look behind, and if they swing, deadhard. If they don't, you just got a pallet for free, and still have it for the next loop. The killer has to swing and see that deadhard bar, and see another pallet saved because of the perk. And me on the survivor side, i typically see low level teammates thinking they're cool by getting a deadhard off... 6 seconds after they were just hit by an m1 killer, rather than obtaining decent distance. There's 99% more bad situations for deadhard being a perk rather than there are good ones
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literally. The loops keep getting bigger. Red forest has bigger loops now as well, and fast vaults at the main building! (mothers dwelling, the vault leading outside on the bottom floor near basement or the stairs to f2). It's all slowly becoming more survivor sided, as well as having more little inconveniences for killers like demo, huntress, trickster, wesker and the like to have to walk around to hit, or just blatantly being to jittery to use their powers at all.
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my exact build: Prove thyself, Autodidact, Stake out, Sprint burst. I usually bring a medkit too. I know how to 99 sprint burst, and stake out will always be used on gens or healing myself (i usually bring a sponge, making it much more worth it).
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To be honest, i take this game by game. There are games where deadhard was blatantly the deciding factor (i'm talking both sides here), sometimes i blame myself for a stupid play, sometimes it was my teammate who looped the killer for 10% of a gen around main when i later did it for a minute. Sometimes it's perks, too. But another thing can be map. Usually, i don't care about a map unless it's the knight map, the game, or a farm map. The amount of god pallets/god loops/ super safe pallets on those maps is stupid.