SomeGuy1246
SomeGuy1246
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911012#Comment_3911012
If you look at the recent design preview the frustrations are mentioned in the original post for example, a lot of people felt her debuffs/buffs she got for getting scanned were annoying to play against for how little input she needed to get the reward.
Oh ok good to know. For me the 3 gen chess SM was so abnoxious it kind of drown the other aspects of the killer so I didn't pay attention. 👍
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I guess the only salvation is the visual heartbeat but even then the audio cue when preparing a hatchet is significantly quieter iirc or they made it less worse ?
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I am asking because I am not aware of the other problems. I remember people saying she was weak but basically only strong for holding 3 gen.
People were actually complaining about other stuff except gen holding ?
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I am nitpicking. But on survivor, I wished they changed the survivors red aura to another color, on some maps with weird colorscheme like coldwind, I often struggle to see the aura at all.
I also wished they would make the notification bubble when a hunter hooks less abnoxious. I get it bro someone got hooked there, I don't need a flashbang bubble taking half my screen, it sometimes even hides huntress's hatchets.
But generally speaking, color choices in DBD are... questionable. Maybe the map designer should study color theory and accessibility for a sec. 🙂
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Nah bro ain't no way we are complaining about franklin and weave when people are abusing totems build rn. 💀
Franklin's weave a permanent staple ? It has to be bait.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
Honestly after the hindered/haste changes I think she'd probably be fine now un nerfed, that was the main issue people had with her lol
maybe make it so the skull trap doesnt perma hinder but does it on each scan for a few seconds.Isn't the main problem with old SM playing chess on a 3 gen ?
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Didn't they say clear and loud they kill switched SM to make her super weak until rework ?
She is so obviously weak why are we even having this conversation ?
But ig with the amount of downvotes on the OP post the level of braindead is higher than I would have expected.
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Personally, I have seen a lot of kanekis bringing mories probably because killers want to see the new mories more often.
Other than that, I couldn't evidently tell on my side that non-kanekis were bringing mories more often but hey, I am not a stat guy that write my matches down so I could be 100% wrong.
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I am cynical about it and I hope it's not true but I think it's because they know a lot of people will buy characters they don't want just for one perk instead of waiting in the gambling house and it makes them a lot of money. Even when the perk you want show up, for new players it's not worth it to buy it as is since it could be reworked in the future, so really you want to only buy characters themselves with iri, and spend money on licences.
I am not sure how you can not update such an outdated heavily criticized feature for so long except that there is malicious intention somewhere. It is kind of like a common sentiment on the "why nurse is still not reworked" ⇒ "because they need an excuse to say the killers are not P2W".
I wish it was not true and I do have hope they are going to change it. I do have goodwill towards BHVR after the efforts they are doing for the FNAF chapters. 👍️
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I personally don't like the idea of an add-on rarity justifying an overwhelming advantage for no reason for either side. Like the biggest offender even as a survivor main are BNPs and syringes, imo, it's just straight "I am stronger now because add-ons rare". And the rarity also loses it's relevance once you reach P100 and you can farm rare add-ons a lot faster.
I think it would be better that iri add-ons only enable alternate playstyle. But honestly, I wish that the strongest killers add-ons are the iri ones, because it's not the case right now and a lot of them are mid at best.
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@coldflame said:
the maps having a million unsafe pallets just makes the game boring as hell, survs just run from tile to tile without actually playing them and predrop, the pallets never run out so it works out fine for them
I think one of the best designed big loop with a lot of small loops chained together for both sides is Léry's TV room with all the adjacent rooms around. In practice tho, I guess you have a few other maps where you have interesting interactions / mindgames by chaining small loops but it's not that common.
I would have hoped that they the new dead sand map would have a lot of these interesting chains but right now it just feels like a flat terrain with small loops put left and right with a shack and a few jungle gyms. Midly interesting imo. I haven't played the new map a lot or seen what other more skilled people can do on it tho.
@ImWinston said:
- It's a trend that has been going on for at least a couple of years. same amount of pallets, or even slightly increased, but less safe. obviously there are exceptions (The Game... almost all pallets are God level), but also exceptions on the killer side, like Rancid Abattoir or Haddonfield
Ok, good to know. I had played DBD a few years ago and came back pretty recently so I only noticed not long ago. 👍️
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910881#Comment_3910881
They've nerfed maps to where most pallets are the equivalent of wedged between a picnic table and a telephone pole, and you think the smart play is to try and loop that against a killer who can hit over pallets and through terrain?
It's funny to me… killers camp and tunnel because it's "how comp players play" as though it's some kind of 500 IQ play and call it "strategy". Then, if survivors play like it's comp and gen rush and pre drop, they're apparently idiots. Hysterical, if you weren't actually serious in this opinion.
It's funny to me… killers camp and tunnel because it's "how comp players play" as though it's some kind of 500 IQ play and call it "strategy". Then, if survivors play like it's comp and gen rush and pre drop, they're apparently idiots. Hysterical, if you weren't actually serious in this opinion.I don't feel like you actually have comp enjoyers accepting only one statement out of the two. If you watch comp, you kind of have to accept that both are true, otherwise, I am not sure how you can enjoy watching comp ngl. 😅
To be fair, they have a few sets where comp players will not pre drop because it's not optimal such as ghostface léry's and kaneki (for now).@BrightWolf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910874#Comment_3910874
This is, imho, why there's been such a backlash to The Ghoul's power. Because they just counter the mindless run from pallet to pallet hold W gameplay, and survivor only players are upset they actually have to engave their brains for a change.
I will agree to some extent, for sure, tight looping and playing short sides against the new killer is not common and can be pretty fun. But I do think people are generally malding for the overall pack that the killer is, too great mobility depending on the map, bugged (some game breaking and making him way stronger than he should be), janky and free first injury power… etc etc
For the survivors, even his potentially fun chase aspect can be greatly reduced depending on the map (Haddonfield you can often only greed 1 tile then you don't reach anything), or builds (blood favor, fast pallet breaking zoning build, blocking windows…).
Even then, I would argue the fact that he can punish bad transition as a guarantee is bad design (since after leap cancel, and M1, you can't really miss an M1). Billy, Blight for example can punish transitions but are not guaranteed, require more skill, and even if you're really good on these killers there's still a chance the survivors make you whiff or something.
I am sure killers are having a lot of fun. But comparing him objectively in all aspects against dracula on release for example, and I do believe they could have done better to create a strong killer fun for both sides (and less bugged but eeeh classic right). Because until now, even by being the most open minded possible, it's hard for me to not think this killer is engineer to be mainly fun for the killers, sell a lot of DLCs, then they are going to nerf him or do something about it.
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Simple answer, bad design.
It is okay in the anti-loop around loops. But when we are talking about how he punish transitionning from loop to loop it's just undoubtedly bad design.
My favorite comparaison is with blight and billy. They can punish longer transitionning to another loop but there is still counterplay available. Billy has to land chainsaw (objects, crouch tech...), and blight you can mindgame around an object (crouch tech, whiff prediction...), it's still not over yet. Also the fact that blight don't get a free injury so you can afford to take a hit if healthy.
This killer is leap, cancel, M1, dead. Wow, great design.
Also around some small open maps, his mobility is so great that he isn't punished for not commiting to anything since he can be on top of anyone almost instantly. Getting juiced a bit top much, change target immediately. Even blight can't do that. You get juiced injure the guy, change target, first guy gets healed. You find someone out of position but he whiffs your power. You take extra time to zone him and injure him but now you have to wait 5 charges... etc etc
In this scenario for ghoul it's the first guy don't get healed because it's a waste of time. The second guy out of position if healthy gets injured for free with 0 counterplay and you can change target if he reaches strong tiles, if he's already injured and out of position, welp, he's dead...
I don't believe he's stronger than blight but he doesn't seem design to work well on all maps ngl.
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Not really in my experience, I have encountered some P100 blight and P100 nurse and they aren't weaker than before kaneki dropped.
The new killer is just popular for good reason since he's fun for killers (playing spiderman, strong, easy to pick up) at the expense of the survivors fun.
The lobbies have become sweatier and killer queue are unbelievably long (didn't try last few days). So even when I wanted to play pinhead I just switched to survivors because lobby waiting is not peak gameplay. And if you want to play low-mid tier killers / goofy buiids, your chance of running against a full meta sweaty team is higher than before since they expect kaneki.
So I have to wait 30 minutes to get a pinhead match to get demolished by a team running BNPs because they expect a kaneki ? Hell no.
So most killers willing to queue are kanekis, already strong killers, and very very few low-mid tier / goofy build killers (you are heros btw, I ain't waiting 30 minutes to get stomped ngl, I am already not super good on killer)
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@D114707 said:
I dont think they will implement that, because they want to prevent the one by one disconnects, where like every 15 seconds someone disconnects until its all bots.
But if the bots were programmed to play more like real survivors, like a mix of looping with maybe a tiny error depending on the rank, then I wouldnt see a huge problem with it-
And survivors shouldnt exactly leave just because its a killer that feels too oppressive- just like how killers shouldnt leave if they get looped for 5 minutes (easier said than done though)
Ill never understand people who willingly DC. I did it a couple times, but then it started disconnecting me randomly and instead of 5 minute bans it gives me multiple hour long ones, even if i quit the game for over 24 hours
Its to the point where I cant even play without worrying about the server sh1tting out, and getting banned for 24 hours for something that isnt my fault- my wifi isnt bad
I dont think they will implement that, because they want to prevent the one by one disconnects, where like every 15 seconds someone disconnects until its all bots.Yeah, I guess the best scenario is that they actually manage to engineer a system where people wouldn't even want to DC or go next at all without a hard rule like if(player DC at 4-5 gens left) {abandon = true; }
But if the bots were programmed to play more like real survivors, like a mix of looping with maybe a tiny error depending on the rank, then I wouldnt see a huge problem with it-It would become too good of a buff for survivors. My coping mechanism in this scenario is "the bot is probably better than the actual player anyway", but with such improved bots, they will undoubtedly be in average better than such survivors. (/s…… not really 😈)
Ill never understand people who willingly DC. I did it a couple times, but then it started disconnecting me randomly and instead of 5 minute bans it gives me multiple hour long ones, even if i quit the game for over 24 hoursI kind of understand why people DC early. Sometime when I play for a while and I get a streak of bad matches and something bad or annoying happens again, I kind of feeling like DCing immediately. But what I do is basically "finish this match normally, then just stop playing and do something else".
I think these people don't know when to stop playing tho. I have seen people basically DCing early multiple matches in a row (against the ghoul some people do that currently). How about stop playing the game for while ? I respect infinitely more people uninstalling the game until the ghoul is rework than people refusing playing against him but still playing the game and boycotting DC against him.
Its to the point where I cant even play without worrying about the server sh1tting out, and getting banned for 24 hours for something that isnt my fault- my wifi isnt badI don't have any particular server problem but I have seen a lot of problems with the servers in this forum. Outside this forum I have seen a lot of people reporting their ping have increased for no reason. I don't have meaningful info tho.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910561#Comment_3910561
Based, based, based, based. These JP players can't stop being based.It's one of those ideas where everyone likes the actual concept, but all of the ideas I've ever seen for implementing such an idea would probably be severely damaging to the game and/or player numbers.
Absolutely, I am just impressed by how their line of thinking seems less influenced by emotions (to say it diplomaticaly) than NA-EU.
Not saying I am surprised, Japanese people seems to be generally more respectful, deeper thinkers, and seems to be trained to be less affected by emotions, at least from my visits to Japan. It kind of fits together.
I can't really imagine these nice people suddenly becoming abnoxious in DBD for no reason. I also know that in JP comp scene, you can actually get perma banned from the scene for t-bagging and there's actually a player perma banned for t-bagging. So they seem to hold respect to a higher standard.
Just my impression tho.
To be fair, I have heard toxicity does exist in JP servers but I couldn't imagine it to be nowhere near NA-EU.
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@daikaimon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910406#Comment_3910406
In Japan, there has always been very strong criticism, mainly regarding the weakening of the system against killers.
In particular, many people express extreme discomfort with weakening that takes away what they were able to do before and makes them lose their individuality.
There is also criticism that the game itself is team-dominated.
They are concerned that the various good adjustments for the solo player will result in an unbalanced game that strengthens the team as well.
There is a need to introduce a system that considers team players and solo players separately.
There is a need to introduce a system that considers team players and solo players separately.Based, based, based, based. These JP players can't stop being based. 🗿
Outside of how good they actually are, they seem unfathomably based and lucid about this game I like it.
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@daikaimon said:
Many in the Japanese community place a higher value on singularity than on ghouls, which I don't understand. (Of course, there's also the fact that I'm not a fan of Singularity.)
As mentioned above, in Japan, Ghoul is rated as a killer, excellent but not up to the top.
What is the evaluation in North America?
Also, I would like to know the general tier list of killers in North America.
I think in NA-EU, (people that actually know what they are talking about) place him at least top A tier but most consider him to be a solid S tier right now.
The most common and reasonable take from these veterans is that he is stronger than spirit but weaker than nurse, blight, billy.
Basically either : S = Nurse, blight, billy, Ghoul, Spirit
Or : S = Nurse, blight, Ghoul, billy, Spirit.
And sometime rarely some people do : S = Nurse, blight, billy, spirit ; A = Ghoul, etc
I am just conveying my understanding of the views or the comp scene and veterans I have seen on the new killer (if not game breaking bugs ofc, you have a tech rn that allows you to basically nullify the cooldown when you suck blood so you can basically insta down any injured people, if you abuse every bugs he has he's easily the best killer in the game).
Personally, I will vouch for the 2 S tier scenario. I think he's strong but at least weaker than nurse and blight. Billy it's hard to say because he's such an explosive killer, it could be 4k4 or nothing whereas Ghoul don't have such a hard snowball potential against a good team imo
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910204#Comment_3910204
Only our best players like comp players and big content creators actually rank her at B Tier.Do you have cite for comp dropping her down to B tier? Because the last time I could find a list she was played was the Spring Invitational she was tier 2 (A tier). In the most recent season of DBDL she was not an option.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910236#Comment_3910236
A lot of players are talking in soloQ tier list, not objective max potential tier list because it doesn't concern them.This kind of disagrees with what you said in an earlier post about Singularity. Do we rank Singularity on how most people are able to play him, or the max potential that can be achieved
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910258#Comment_3910258
The Japanese comp scene is more immature and it sounds odd to me to hear everyone in Japan is a massive comp tryhard yet their comp scene are getting stomped by ChinaI might be repeating something I said in an earlier comment to you, but that's because comp and pubs are completely different things. Try harding is a lot different than comp.
Their soloq, based off what I've watched, is considerably better than what you are going to run into in NA/EU.
No reason that should translate to their comp skills. You could put 20k hours into DbD pubs and its still not going to prepare you for a comp matchup as survivor (probably not as killer either).
But I would never bet ever any Japanese team could beat any top NA-EU team like Nokron, Invictus, Elysium, x9The first question would be what is the ruleset? Like there are killers / maps that comp teams depending on their region never even touch because they are unused.
The second point on comp is that no one really stands a chance against any of the top comp teams. It's basically been Elysium, Eternal, X9 and a couple of others winning/finaling tournaments for a while. The disparate difference in skill levels can make watching those early rounds of a tournament really boring.
Out of the millions of players of the game, I don't think where the best 10 or so players happen to be located is that reflective of the skill level you would see in a normal match.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910240#Comment_3910240
Yet self-care is indicative of a fundamental misunderstanding on the survivor side in asian servers for this game.The time spent using self care is EXPONENTIALLY greater than having someone heal you- especially if they use perks that make healing others faster. It is often said in NA servers that self care is actively a throw pick when you use it.It really depends on how others play and how you use it.
Its not that survivors on the Asian servers always self care. They use the perk situationally. If the killer isn't pressuring, they'll still heal in what we would consider a 'normal' manner (they also bring botany to support the self care, so the heals can be quicker).
But what if the killer tunnels? Well you are going to run away from the hook and the gens and now every second the person who wants to heal you is chasing after you is a second they aren't on gens. And if you run away and no one follows you, but the killer decides to go back and play defense, well now you have no heal.
What if the killer interrupts the heal? That's the time of two survivors wasted and potentially both of them are now injured. Being spread out is generally to the survivors benefit.
It's also a lot easier to 99 a self care and do gens faster with resilience, or hold that 99 to keep info from the killer.
Additionally they use it interestingly when gens are finished. They'll pressure the final gen while injured, and then split up away from gates to get healed. Now it doesn't matter how long the heal takes, but once you're healed against most killers you can waltz out an open door without many concerns.
I've never understood why they don't just load up on a med-kit to do this, but self-care is the norm and they tend to finish gens incredibly fast.
@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910204#Comment_3910204
Only our best players like comp players and big content creators actually rank her at B Tier.Do you have cite for comp dropping her down to B tier? Because the last time I could find a list she was played was the Spring Invitational she was tier 2 (A tier). In the most recent season of DBDL she was not an option.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910236#Comment_3910236
A lot of players are talking in soloQ tier list, not objective max potential tier list because it doesn't concern them.This kind of disagrees with what you said in an earlier post about Singularity. Do we rank Singularity on how most people are able to play him, or the max potential that can be achieved
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910258#Comment_3910258
The Japanese comp scene is more immature and it sounds odd to me to hear everyone in Japan is a massive comp tryhard yet their comp scene are getting stomped by ChinaI might be repeating something I said in an earlier comment to you, but that's because comp and pubs are completely different things. Try harding is a lot different than comp.
Their soloq, based off what I've watched, is considerably better than what you are going to run into in NA/EU.
No reason that should translate to their comp skills. You could put 20k hours into DbD pubs and its still not going to prepare you for a comp matchup as survivor (probably not as killer either).
But I would never bet ever any Japanese team could beat any top NA-EU team like Nokron, Invictus, Elysium, x9The first question would be what is the ruleset? Like there are killers / maps that comp teams depending on their region never even touch because they are unused.
The second point on comp is that no one really stands a chance against any of the top comp teams. It's basically been Elysium, Eternal, X9 and a couple of others winning/finaling tournaments for a while. The disparate difference in skill levels can make watching those early rounds of a tournament really boring.
Out of the millions of players of the game, I don't think where the best 10 or so players happen to be located is that reflective of the skill level you would see in a normal match.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910240#Comment_3910240
Yet self-care is indicative of a fundamental misunderstanding on the survivor side in asian servers for this game.The time spent using self care is EXPONENTIALLY greater than having someone heal you- especially if they use perks that make healing others faster. It is often said in NA servers that self care is actively a throw pick when you use it.It really depends on how others play and how you use it.
Its not that survivors on the Asian servers always self care. They use the perk situationally. If the killer isn't pressuring, they'll still heal in what we would consider a 'normal' manner (they also bring botany to support the self care, so the heals can be quicker).
But what if the killer tunnels? Well you are going to run away from the hook and the gens and now every second the person who wants to heal you is chasing after you is a second they aren't on gens. And if you run away and no one follows you, but the killer decides to go back and play defense, well now you have no heal.
What if the killer interrupts the heal? That's the time of two survivors wasted and potentially both of them are now injured. Being spread out is generally to the survivors benefit.
It's also a lot easier to 99 a self care and do gens faster with resilience, or hold that 99 to keep info from the killer.
Additionally they use it interestingly when gens are finished. They'll pressure the final gen while injured, and then split up away from gates to get healed. Now it doesn't matter how long the heal takes, but once you're healed against most killers you can waltz out an open door without many concerns.
I've never understood why they don't just load up on a med-kit to do this, but self-care is the norm and they tend to finish gens incredibly fast.
This kind of disagrees with what you said in an earlier post about Singularity. Do we rank Singularity on how most people are able to play him, or the max potential that can be achievedI am just saying most people don't believe singularity can be A tier because they almost never play or never played against a super strong singularity main. I don't think much more than that. He's A or A+ tier in the hands of KnightLight, but when I see it in my lobby I don't typically expect such a singularity main. Whereas when you see a blight, nurse, wesker, it's much more likely he's cracked out of his mind. I do still believe tho that Japan if sweatier, is closer to an actual max potential tier list on their servers.
The first question would be what is the ruleset? Like there are killers / maps that comp teams depending on their region never even touch because they are unused.Their ruleset have basically a lot less restrictions from what I have seen and even then anjoy the self care + botany. The most showing example is a showcase of hens (you can type hens Japan vs NA-EU and probably find it and see for yourself). It truly is a ruleset no NA-EU / Asia comp never plays ever. When I watch JP comp on these sets rn, I hardly understand what they are doing it's simply too different and I also found it a tad boring (personal) so I stopped watching because I could see these teams perform in dbdasia anyway.
I haven't been very clear, yes it depends on the ruleset. However, in the "classic" comp setting that NA-EU / Asia plays, looping does come into play a lot more than custom JP ruleset from what I have seen… In pure looping fashion, JP teams are not putting up a good showing rn. Now ofc, it also comes down to ping, but Chinese teams are also not accustomed to such high pings but are generally better at this looping part (and are also more accustomed to NA-EU settings which is fair). Not saying there's no strong JP comp players in chase, but I believe there was a 1v1 between someone who was considered the best 1v1 player in JP (gunther I think but idk the names quite well yet) against V1rtual_Reality and lost. V1 is a strong EU player for sure but he is not really what people would refer as THE 1v1 player. And 1v1 in NA-EU and Japan are the same rules soooo..
No reason that should translate to their comp skills. You could put 20k hours into DbD pubs and its still not going to prepare you for a comp matchup as survivor (probably not as killer either).True, what I am trying to say tho is : If every lobby genrush extremely efficiently and are pre dropping everything. Yes, you are mostly going to win because the team macro is better. But if the moment you're put into a custom setting that prioritizes skill expression in certain aspects such as notably looping well… and you aren't able to loop well… Maybe it means you're lacking in looping skills beyong pre dropping. I never saw pub JP lobbies so can't be sure, but if previous comments about JP basically being genrush pre drop it is a possibility imo.
The second point on comp is that no one really stands a chance against any of the top comp teams. It's basically been Elysium, Eternal, X9 and a couple of others winning/finaling tournaments for a while. The disparate difference in skill levels can make watching those early rounds of a tournament really boring.Yup this was actual problem but something interesting happened.
It's recent news but Eternal disbanded and Elysium had a massive roaster change. Basically Eternal separated into Invictus (Pedro, Rocket, Dan, KnightLight, Spitzz, Kekso) and Nokron (Bubbo, Ivan, Zaka, Hxrdwell, Swatter, exize) and Elysium is now (Xeno, Hein, Obii, PedroHz, Silhey, 1lmarco) which is basically old Elysium Xeno and Silhey merged with Calamity. So you really now you have 4 contenders now with X9.
And also now you have some team like Sinners that aren't quite there yet but are putting a good fight (I think they won once against Eternal) so not as clear cut as before where it was basically "Wow, I wonder who between Eternal and Elysium will win……"
The first tournament with the new roaster they are playing right now is the v1v4 tourney but they are going to play in the next DBDL season X which also has a massive record prize pool that have never been seen in DBD comp history. There will also be C Dragons which has impressed me a lot and has a lot of potential.
W variety and international team. 👍️
It really depends on how others play and how you use it.Its not that survivors on the Asian servers always self care. They use the perk situationally. If the killer isn't pressuring, they'll still heal in what we would consider a 'normal' manner (they also bring botany to support the self care, so the heals can be quicker).I can vouch for that they are very smart about it.
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I think making alert for pallets basekit would be a better idea than windows imo for survivors.
Because I think learning the maps and being aware to reduce map RNG is a big part of the game and giving up a perk slot to nullify all this work is fair imo.
However, what any map knowledge can't help you with is knowing which resources have been used by teammates.
It's still not ideal because it basically gives you info on where the killer is but making windows basekit is arguably even stronger anyway.
I don't think killers needs a basekit Zanshin as much as survivors require windows or alert. You are the one to chase and break pallets so you actually have all the info at your disposal.
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@WeaverReaver42 said:
I haven't played in JP servers, but it strikes me as odd how antithetical the approach they are doing sounds.
In Rivals (you know what I am referring to) the asian servers are doing much better at teamwork, giving them an advantage compared to Western servers.
Yet self-care is indicative of a fundamental misunderstanding on the survivor side in asian servers for this game.
The time spent using self care is EXPONENTIALLY greater than having someone heal you- especially if they use perks that make healing others faster. It is often said in NA servers that self care is actively a throw pick when you use it.
Generators don't actually get done faster, because there are less consistently 4 survivors working on generators. The faster you heal, the faster you start repairing again. Especially since you often will be injured more than once in a match.
Killers need to force you to waste time and resources through the match, meaning the start of the match is where survivors are at their strongest. Leaving survivors to deal with their own issues later in the match is asking for a weak link to appear and to give the killer an opportunity to steamroll as the match goes on.
Survivors have a 4-1 numbers advantage on killer, yet it sounds like they don't utilize it by allowing a team to multitask and get multiple things done at once. If you have healed a survivor, now both of you can also move on to doing something else useful in the area with the time that survivor saved being healed by someone else instead of with self care alone.
There are multiple perks that benefit you for working as a team, and they can be very powerful. Survivor DBD is a team game, and playing it that way gives you a better chance at winning- but only if everyone is doing so.
I will not pretend I can say for sure globally.
But in comp setting. The Japanese comp scene is more immature and it sounds odd to me to hear everyone in Japan is a massive comp tryhard yet their comp scene are getting stomped by China (C Dragons in dbdasia while C Dragons are still arguably a bit weaker than EU top teams by their recent performance in v1v4 tourney). And really are nowhere close to hold up to Asia and NA-EU in standard comp settings. Until now, I have only seen good JP comp showings on super specific ruleset no one plays except themselves. Not that they are bad from what I have seen. But I would never bet ever any Japanese team could beat any top NA-EU team like Nokron, Invictus, Elysium, x9... anytime soon while CDragon (China) I think with a bit of adaptation to ping differences and a bit more practice I could see them compete with NA-EU top team.
It feels like cognitive dissonance that "Japanese lobbies are stronger and sweatier" yet ⇒ "JP comp teams aren't that impressive". It could be true but idk how tbh.
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I also think Springtrap is overall the best choice. I guess from a lore point of view, choosing new gen villains like the mimic could make sense but it's probably worse for marketing to not have a character everyone knows, even people that have grown out of FNAF years ago like me. (I only vaguely know the lore because people like MatPat are doing full timeline videos but it's still super convoluted)
He's basically the only character everyone knows and has been the main FNAF antagonist lorewise for at least a very very long time, so hardcore FNAF fans are happy.
To be fair tho, I might get my hopes up, but if Scott really has a heavy hand on the making of this DLC, we could expect way more exotic and surprising stuff. Like Springtrap as the main killer, but also aided by the mimic, they both exist in recent FNAF lore like in Security Breach no ?
It might be a chopped idea but they could actually release legendary skins for each main original antagonists (Freedy, Chica, Bonnie, Foxy). I swear people will buy every single one of these legendary skins. I guess a better universe is like these 4 are like passive threats around the map plus spring trap the main killer.
I honestly have high hopes, I am not a super FNAF fan but they have to make it big this time.
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@Bodark said:
The Japanese/ Asia region player base is much more skilled than the NA player base. For example I see most players in the Asia region rank Huntress at B or even C Tier meanwhile NA players put her at high A Tier. Only our best players like comp players and big content creators actually rank her at B Tier.
But yes NA is much more focused on fun. Survivors get very angry when killers try to win. You will be constantly berated for tunneling, slugging or camping. People will report you and insult you for these things. I believe the vast majority of NAs player base aren’t real gamers but rather casual players.
For example I see most players in the Asia region rank Huntress at B or even C Tier meanwhile NA players put her at high A Tier. Only our best players like comp players and big content creators actually rank her at B Tier.I think a lot has to do with the fact that people in NA-EU actually rank out of their own experiences which is soloQ. And soloQ doesn't reflect a comp game or 4 good survivors playing. Imo a lot of it has to do with the matchmaking that was already mentioned above, and the fact that a lot of objectively not great killers can however punish survivors mistakes so hard you only really need 1 clueless survivor to bring down an entire team. A lot of players are talking in soloQ tier list, not objective max potential tier list because it doesn't concern them.
V1 (comp player) basically acknowledges wraith tier is mid but in pub is A tier. OhTofu I think ranked hag one of the lowest but in pubs said he could make it work to have A tier results against most lobbies. So really pubs and objective tier lists are different tier lists.
In Asia, if everyone is basically playing comp, it makes sense why they would have a more accurate representation. If you can't expect someone to make a mistake for you to snowball, then you truly see even in pubs how good a killer is in average.
But yes NA is much more focused on fun. Survivors get very angry when killers try to win. You will be constantly berated for tunneling, slugging or camping. People will report you and insult you for these things. I believe the vast majority of NAs player base aren’t real gamers but rather casual players.The problem with these complaining people is that they often play meta perks themselves and are obviously playing for the results and I never see an actual memer with goofy perks complain in post game chat. It sound like a very diplomatic way to say that a lot more NA-EU survivors can't handle the fact that tunneling, slugging, and camping may actually be good strategies to win.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909887#Comment_3909887
I can see the angle on that. They want to be strong as independent players, not just as a team. So they want self-reliant perks like Self-Care. It's universally agreed upon in the West that Self-Care by itself is a bad perk, because it's so slow. Self-Care with Botany or some other healing perks is a different situation. But you should almost never prioritize healing before generators, with a few exceptions. If you're injured, you can still do generators. So, to be the most efficient on generators, you don't heal, and instead do the gen. If you're on your last hook, or the killer has been tunneling you and you manage to get away, obviously you would heal then. Resurgence from Jill can actually make healing under hook very safe, since you're almost healed all the way with that perk as soon as you get off.
Nurse and Blight are basically unchallenged on the top; no other killers come close to their power. It's not surprising that Japanese players would fall easy to Twins, since they're independent, and the main counterplay against Twins is running together, so that 1 player gets downed and the other kicks Victor before Charlotte gets back.
But Wraith and Singularity being considered strong is very surprising. Wraith might have the most counterplay in the game, which is all about abusing his slowdown he gets from uncloaking. For example, when you're both standing at opposite sides of an upright pallet, and he starts to uncloak, instead of dropping it to be safe, you can call his bluff and not drop it. That's because usually from his perspective, he wants to 99% his uncloak, so that you drop the pallet, and he gets to stay in cloak without having to waste time recloaking after the pallet break. Singularity, I have no idea how he ever gets any wins. His EMPs which he gives survivors for free are everywhere and are constant, and can disable multiple cameras AND cure multiple infections in 1 use. So the Singularity spends all this time setting up cameras to trap survivors in chase or to monitor gens, but when he needs them most they're disabled by an EMP. He's easily one of the most frustrating killers for me to play as, because it's so much work for so little payoff.
Singularity, I have no idea how he ever gets any wins. His EMPs which he gives survivors for free are everywhere and are constant, and can disable multiple cameras AND cure multiple infections in 1 use. So the Singularity spends all this time setting up cameras to trap survivors in chase or to monitor gens, but when he needs them most they're disabled by an EMP. He's easily one of the most frustrating killers for me to play as, because it's so much work for so little payoff.The thing with singularity is that his MAX POTENTIAL is A tier but almost no ones plays him to that level. You simply almost never run into KnightLight level singularities in the wilds. And I mean right now you can pretty much get more pressure without playing 7D chess with Kaneki so why bother with such a difficult killer to only get A tier results. But when you run into the rare 3 great singularities main in the server, you get reminded the hard way he's not a mid tier killer. It also doesn't help that people typically don't exactly know how to counter him properly, especially in chase where you have a lot of techs that can help you save resources and last longer.
But at the end of the day. Is it really fair to say a killer is A tier when you only have 2 ppl in your region playing him that well ? Maybe not. (just joking they aren't 2 maybe 4 ppl at most).
@daikaimon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910051#Comment_3910051
The following reflects the general perception in Japan as well as my own personal experience and preferences.
S Tier:Nurse, Blight
A Tier:Twins, Wraith, Spirit, Hillbilly (my favorite!) , Singularity（I'm not sure I understand it...), Ghoul, Darklord, Plague, Lich
B Tier and below:I'm a little tired from the unfamiliar English text, so I'll omit them.
Japan community not whining and putting Ghoul S+++ tier immediately but A ?? Based af even if I am not sure I would agree.
I have a hard time understanding why Lich is A tier tho. He's not weak by any mean but at the same tier as Twins, Hillbilly, Spirit, Singu, and Dark Lord ? Maybe since he's at the end of the rope of the A tier list, it could mean he's quite weaker but it would also mean Japan see singularity stronger than ghoul ?
To be fair, Wraith is a soloQ pub stomper. soloQ survivors don't typically have the coordination to deal with a hit and run and "wearing the survivors health state and resources down" long game playstyle. In a soloQ tier list, yeah wraith is A tier imo.
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I feel like the only change everyone agrees on is the janky / too free hit validation for the first hit with his power. So I guess it is a good start to answer people's demands on that one.
For the rest, I have seen everything ranging from removing his ability to damage / deleting mend, to always max 2 leaps while enraged gets a buff in another way… etc I personally don't have a strong opinion except the janky first hit so idk I'll just wait and see.
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
The few times I've gotten players from Asian servers, they have all pre-dropped every single pallet and just held W, literally zero thought given to actually looping, just hold W to pallet, instantly drop it no matter how far away I am, repeat until all pallets are gone, but then to contrast this they are uber efficient on gens and end the game in like 5 minutes
I've tended to avoiding players from these regions for this reason, the matches are just incredibly boring and I prefer actually playing in the video game instead of holding W with no thought given to using resources efficiently or skilfully
If true, it may explain why they have a different killer meta, although boring, if every game is consistently played like that with gen rushers builds etc…
@daikaimon said:
What is the current meta in North America?
I may be wrong but isn't NA basically the same as EU. ? Or America is so big it has different servers with different metas ? From what I have seen, China is pretty close to EU meta and plays mostly the same. Japan from what I have seen is very different and India is also very different (idk much about India tho).
@daikaimon said:
I think we all share the fact that players from any country don't have much appreciation for players from other countries. lol
I can't give definitive conclusion, but I remember when there was the first Japan rule set comp match between Japan / NA-EU (showcase), a lot of people mocked their play style / meta (self care…), and how they were bad in chases, or just how st-pid this ruleset is. (Gideon Legion with very different ruleset)… I personally found this gideon legion ruleset super boring but some comments were a bit much.
So I can definitely see it be at least partially true.In Japan, there is talk of a big difference in playstyle between the North American and other server environments and the Asian server environments.You mean like an actual discussion in the general community ? Honestly it's awesome because in NA-EU, apart from the comp scene and a few videos of hens333 showcase, I don't feel like people are that interested in how some other servers could play the game differently.
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@TicTac said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909441#Comment_3909441
Its true that there are many unwinnable matches, but on average you can easily push above 50%. Hens333 did it and while hes certainly in the top percent theres still better players.
But yh you shouldnt expect to win any match alone.
You mean the video where he tries different builds and see the % for 10 matches for each build ? Yeah I believe the best build 10 matches was like 70% right ? When I say 50% I am talking generally, not a sample of 10 matches. You could really pop off for 10 matches then get a DC, a go next…
But the actual % doesn't matter that much. I am trying to say that in some other games, if you're really a god you could carry the team by your sheer impact but in Dead By Daylight, the killer could just ignore you all game and you still lose.
But yh you shouldnt expect to win any match alone.+1
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Probably not a majority tho since it seems a lot of people don't want to face kaneki at all and find nothing fun on the survivor side which I respect
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@RainehDaze said:
The short version is "indoor maps". Ghoul's thing is mobility, but he's super easily caught up on obstacles like doorways, so being in a cramped environment automatically inhibits a lot of his power, and indoor areas are also great for small, sharp turns that cut off Line of Sight. That also goes for "worst place for him to chase you in outdoor maps".
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909899#Comment_3909899
Are you… asking for meta slowdown builds?
Are you… asking for meta slowdown builds?I'd prefer a slowdown build than a totem build ngl, facing a ruin + blood favor + thrill + penti is the most miserable survivor experience ever, you basically don't get to loop at all. By slowdown I mean the classic pain res, pop and all these direct slowdowns or maybe there's a misunderstanding.
Yes, slowdown is objectively stronger than "break pallet fast", "haha I block windows", but I'd rather get a kaneki matches were I lose but get interesting chases / interactions than a match where the team wins but there's basically 0 chase interaction because he shred through every pallet and block every windows. But I mean probably personal thing since survivors didn't mind pre dropping and holding W but I believe it is the most fun aspect of this new killer rn the looping part. Deleting the looping part and he's not a so fun killer to face imo.
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@bleep275 said:
American servers are pretty competitive, mostly from the killers side of things. As survivor, they are far more likely to goof off and play for humor and jokes rather than the win. Killers can be pretty chill but I have not seen one in ages. As killer I pretty much just play for the memes and jumpscares without any concern for winning.
However there has been a shift in player mentality lately, and one that is definitely more negative. The “us vs them” mentality and focus on comp style gameplay has been becoming more common. More survivors are playing only for the win and more killers are playing only for the win. But they do this in a sort of “I’m not playing for fun, I’m playing to punish you” mentality.
I can’t comment so much on the differences in comp styles as I have no interest in it. I think the hyper competitive mentality is the death of casual enjoyment and laughter. To me it facilitates the sense that winning is everything and the only way to have fun is to win.
I have heard Asian servers have use the perk “self care” a lot where as here in NA, we generally see it as a waste of time and more harmful due to how slow it is.
What is the meta over there so we can better compare?
However there has been a shift in player mentality lately, and one that is definitely more negative. The “us vs them” mentality and focus on comp style gameplay has been becoming more common. More survivors are playing only for the win and more killers are playing only for the win. But they do this in a sort of “I’m not playing for fun, I’m playing to punish you” mentality.I can’t comment so much on the differences in comp styles as I have no interest in it. I think the hyper competitive mentality is the death of casual enjoyment and laughter. To me it facilitates the sense that winning is everything and the only way to have fun is to win.Agree for the death of casual fun part but I don't know if I would correlate people with the "comp winning mentality" with toxicity and a desire to punish the other side. In my experience most of them just go ggs wp go next. It is a problem tho that you "can't" play for fun once you reach high MMR since everyone is sweating even if you want to.
@daikaimon said:
One of the reasons “self-care” is used so often on Asian servers is probably the strong emphasis on generators.
Many Japanese players do not like the idea of two people staying in place, one to treat and the other to be treated.
They want the treatment to be completed by one person, and the rest of the players to perform generator repairs, chases, etc.
Another reason may be the relatively high number of tunneling killers.
(It is difficult to treat immediately after a rescue.)
We recognize that the popular parks among Japanese survivors are not that different from North America, except for "self-care. Sprint Burst“ is particularly popular, as are ”Off-Record“ and ”Decisive Strike" for tunnel protection.
Naturally, “Nurse” and ‘Blight’ are the most popular killers in the S tier, followed by “Twins,” “Wraith,” and “Singularity” in the A tier.I might be tripping but I have heard Japanese servers are realizing / they know they are not as good mechanically in chase compared to the other servers. And I also heard wesker and billy are not as considered as good mostly due to the fact there are not that many super strong wesker and billy in Japan ?
I do find the custom comp settings of Japan really fresh and interesting by how different it is. I don't really know where to watch Japanese comp content tho. In NA-EU, we have DBDL, COTF… on YouTube and Twitch, there's also dbdasia which I believe is the DBDL that includes all Asia (China, Japan…) right ? I think only China only comp content happens on BiliBili but where do Japan only comp content happens ? Nico nico ? Last time I checked Nico nico, I couldn't figure out how to get a English page so I had to add an extension to translate stuff. x)
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@WholesomeNebula said:
I've got like 1800hrs, been playing since the Nemesis chapter. I have never seen a killer as awful to play against on release as the Ghoul. He's just miserable, zero fun to play against at all. Most of the time I see survivor mains complain about a new killer, I brush it off, even though I'm a solo surv main. I find a lot of complaints about "OP killers" overblown and not accurate. But this killer is just awful, no redeeming qualities whatsoever. I track my stats, since release, I've got him at a 80.4% kill rate. That is team wide, I spectate all the matches I get sacrificed in just to see the end results. I personally have escaped him 6 out of 26 matches, but 3 of those were on his release date. So you can chalk that up to killers not having figured him out yet or knowing what the strongest perks are for the new killer. They have clearly figured it out now, as most are running the same group of expose perks now.
Since his release I've played 45 total matches. 26 were this killer. Idk how people even manage to not DC or give up every time he shows up. My running escape average as a solo survivor is usually around 45%, give or take. My escape rate against this killer is 23% and dropping.
/Rant. Anyway, I haven't used a map offering in years, and I wanted to know what maps are worst for this killer? Are any of them harder for the Ghoul to play on?He's just miserable, zero fun to play against at all. Most of the time I see survivor mains complain about a new killer, I brush it off, even though I'm a solo surv main. I find a lot of complaints about "OP killers" overblown and not accurate.Personally, depending on the map, I find versing him quite fun, forcing a weird pathing in some maps, or forcing 50/50 with great pathing and playing short sides is pretty interesting.
What I find "always" frustrating tho is the "low skill ceiling and brain power" the killer requires compared to other killers to create such pressure. It really feels like as survivors you have to sweat your @ss off while the killer is maybe chilling with a smoothie playing while watching an otzdarva video on his second screen. Even more true for the p@ssies playing bamboozle / fireup, speed breaking pallet zoning builds, and totem builds. Idk tho, maybe just me.
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Personal opinion of rankings after sending on maps I believe he could be weak, i didn't play extensively on all maps against him tho :
- Léry's : The map structure with all the clogged corridors limits his mobility and ability to defend a 3 gen. There's a lot of small loops interconnected including windows where the ghoul can't really use his anti-loop effectively,you almost always reach something to play due to loops and windows density. Very often he can't close distance that well if you take a lot of sharp turns and can waste a decent amount of time with nothing to loop and you can also do that at the start of the chase with initial distance, it's basically initial holding W with extra steps. And you also have god pallets and strong windows you can play by themselves if you have enough initial distance and / or if you know how to pallet standoff when he's holding power. It's easy to hide anywhere and you can even deny his first hit for a while if you play into that.
- RPD : Also reduces ghoul mobility (arguably even more than Léry's if he wants to reach gen on the left or right side) but weaker than Léry's in a few ways imo. The initial common 3 gen that spawn in the center area is hard to break against this killer. Loops are stronger than Léry's but less dense so a pallet breaking ghoul can get rid of loops around e.g. center area and it becomes dangerous to break the 3 gen here and you have to pre run early. The loops are often long and shaped in a rectangular way so you can't greed them and have to drop them early if you know he's not on CD and he plays well but you still have a good amount of loops where his leaps almost don't come into play. I find it more interesting looping ghoul on RPD than on Léry's because you need a balance of safe / greed and also path in a peculiar way and exploit these corridors to the max whereas on Léry's you can get away with a lot more. It's also harder to deny his first hit since it's more open. You also can't "hold W and take sharp turns" as effectively but since you can often see the ghoul from way further than on Léry's, it balances itself if you pre run early. Imo Léry's and RPD are on a league of their own and the rest of the maps are below.
- Gideon : Strong bottom floor for survivors. Not so much for the top floor. The map being so small(constant heartbeat) with at time so little LOS also means if not in coms, you often have to leave your gen early or gamble and stick to it even if the ghoul didn't even register you were there which work as passive gen regression for the killer. In practice, holding W and taking sharp turns is not that strong since chases usually starts with a way shorter initial distance (and also because corridors are more open and easier to leap imo) since you can't see him and have to stick to a gen but it still works for a while. On the bright side, nerf his mobility, and you can last quite long on the bottom floor but just overall weaker.
- Hawkins : It's hard for him to defend gens on second floors such as the one in the glass room, the one on top of the 2 stairs at the opposite of the glass room (but if not in coms hard to tell if the killer is going for you and prerun if no balanced landing), and the gens randomly spawning on second floor on the fences. You often can last quite long by just holding W and taking sharp turns since the corridors are clogged then when he catches up and on CD, you drop a strong / god pallet and restart the cycle. Problem is you only have so many strong pallets on Hawkings and he can shred through them quickly and create massive deadzones. I also believe in chase it's a "killer skill vibe check"because to close the distance effectively he has to leap well around these clogged corridors and I found a lot of ghouls are actually not that good with his leaps so they get stuck on objects and you can continue to hold W and take sharp turns. Ultimately against bad-mid ghouls it might be stronger than I give credit to if you play into this hold W, sharp turns, drop strong pallets since they get stuck everywhere. Problem is doing that on this map often disturb teammates generators so everyone has to last super long to get it to work.
- Garden of Joy : The map has a lot of strong interconnected tiles, a lot of strong windows. Yes, the map is open and he has great mobility but if the survivors team vibe together, pre run when they need to, play strong tiles, and only play 50/50 and greed when they have no other choice then die in comp corner, genrush… You can often get good results. The good LOS on killer to pre run with the fact that often you reach a strong set of tiles and these tiles being a lot of windows, and the map layout often making it so you don't disturb teammates gens when looping kaneki I believe makes it ones of the better open map against him. It's difficult if you get a 3 gen with gens in the central area, breaking them early is almost impossible and you often have to accept to let it happen then play the long game for the last gen. It is easier to play in term of team coordination than Hawkins and Gideon so I can't tell if it's actually better because soloQ is not the pinnacle of macro but I do get good results on this map.
- Nostromo Wreckage : I never sent on this map but I found it to be an "okayish" map against ghoul mostly due to the massive main building which limits his mobility from one side to the other. He also can't reach you instantly if you're inside that main building. So if you're in the central area, you always have some 50/50 to play, if you're on the side and the killer comes from central area, you have good LOS, and you can often pre run inside main building then central area or somewhere good to die kind of like nurse, and if killer comes from main building while your on the side, he can't be on top of you instantly so you reach a 50/50 then die comp corner. Having a 3 gen is devastating but if you manage to break those early, it kind of plays a bit like nurse where you accept you are going down eventually / quickly so you play 50/50 the best you can then die in the best possible corner while teammates genrush on the other side, someone rotates for the rescue… etc and you may eventually reach end game. Not ideal tho and I find normal lobbies not that good into the "accepting dying fast and outgen rush the killers" even though I feel like lobbies have been gen rushing harder since kaneki.
I don't take into account totem builds ghouls since it's pretty much impossible to counter, I would assume they are stronger in the open but the time it takes to break these totems + pentis is already game losing especially with thrill the hunt.
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That's pretty much it, even though it's 100% favorable to survivor, as a survivor, I just stopped playing blood moon because the idea of these gens that can't be regressed and depending on RNG can be filled incredibly quickly isn't really what I call fun, it's just competitive advantage.
As a killer well… Why would you play blood moon except to farm bp ?
Making an event where you can do less stuff than normal seems like a bad idea to me from a design perspective.Sums it up. I find it so uninteresting I just see it as "normal gamemode but survivor sided and more bp"
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/442520/isnt-reassurance-kinda-mid-now
Reassurance has always been a perk that relies on a killer playing a certain style to get any value out of it. Less killers can hard camp now, but as you mentioned in your post there are some that can and Reassurance can still be powerful against them.
It's also more usable in end game rescues to buy time for everyone to heal up before going in.
Compared to StB - StB loses its value if you get hooked, as now you're just trading who is on death hook.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909355#Comment_3909355
Yeah but in tournament there are limitations like unique perks. Now, don't get me wrong it's probably still super strong since I believe reassurance is banned against every killers in comp. I also believe in the next season of DBDL, they are banning FTP except against tier I killer (nurse, blight, billy, spirit, and maybe kaneki).As a frequent watcher and enjoyer of DBDL, its not what Dead by Daylight actually is. It's basically a different game. Survivors are given an absolutely massive buff by knowing ahead of the game who the killer is going to be.
Lots of changes that they make to the game are around making it more predictable and less random. They also ban perks that they think take out skill expression, such as some aura reading, and the ban should not be seen as a statement on balance.
And whenever comp comes up, its worth mentioning that Asia comp/the old community cup doesn't have nearly as many bans, because they don't do preselected killer (they choose from a group), and they are fine with the random elements (a minor example: they are okay with opening chests, while that's banned in DBDL, not because its unbalanced, but because its too random).
And the strategy I seem to observe is 1 deliverance, 1 wicked, 1 shoulder, and sometime FTP. But no reassurance in sight, maybe I am wrong tho I am not that interesting in a super comp team demolishing pub killers ngl.Because in this scenario it doesn't matter if a survivor dies. If the killer wants to camp for the 1k they'll just finish the gens and leave and the streak goes up. But being most survivors are playing with an ideal goal of a 4e if its available, Reassurance has a little more value.
and they are fine with the random elements (a minor example: they are okay with opening chests, while that's banned in DBDL, not because its unbalanced, but because its too random).True, honestly I only recently got interested into dbdasia since the Chinese team (Nova) performed last season in DBDL. I am not that familiar on their rule sets. I only know they are trying to make it closer to DBDL in China.
Ig allowing reassurance would destroy this whole comp concept of securing hooks but to preserve this play style they had to ban built-in cobe anyway so it may not be a fair representation of how strong it is just because "it's banned in DBDL / COTF". Fair point.
Because in this scenario it doesn't matter if a survivor dies. If the killer wants to camp for the 1k they'll just finish the gens and leave and the streak goes up.True
But being most survivors are playing with an ideal goal of a 4e if its available, Reassurance has a little more value.Is that really true though ? In soloQ reaching endgame is already nice. I feel like most survivors "winning mindset" is trying to maintain a 4v1 as long as possible and get a comfortable endgame and eventually go for end game unhook. Hard to imagine anyone has the luxury of winning so much they could run reassurance to get 4 escapes instead of 3.
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@Man_of_triangles said:
Reassurance is only good if you're in a party. See, if the killer is even vaguely patrolling around the hook and clearly isn't concerned with actively seeking out chases, then you do not need to unhook the survivor until they are almost at the next stage. You can just leave them for a while and have everyone repair generators. Immediate unhooks are only valuable if the killer has raced to the other side of the map to get more hooks, and if the killer is patrolling then a quick unhook will only give the killer another chase and more pressure, perhaps even aid him in tunneling. This means that Reassurance can keep the killer patrolling around the hook longer, giving your team more time on gens. Problem is that in solo queue everyone is unhook hungry and there is no way to communicate this strategy, so if you run to the hook and use Reassurance the extra time added to the hook timer is wasted because your teammates are not working on generators.
True, it's best case scenario but I don't feel like it happens that often if ever even in SWF tbh. You could proxy camp 70 seconds 2 gen pops, and someone save last second. No one saves and you give up 3 gen which is headed in a 2K match in most cases. The guy you're trying to proxy camp could have deliverance or wicked and cobe last second. Survivors could let a death hook happen and deny it later with shoulder.
I don't see a lot of killers camping without pressuring gens personally and I feel like it's incredibly risky for them do so. If they don't do it, it's probably because it doesn't work right .
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@XtremeDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909510#Comment_3909510
The save progress remains, Its just that I'll have to get either a new disc or play the game digitally.
Then I guess there's no issue if you don't plan to cross sync progress between platforms and you trust the psn plateform to not go under. (And even if they do, they would notice at least a few weeks before so you can move your things around).
For me. I synced my steam account for the iri shards but lost the BHVR linking account but never cared. If Steam were to go under I will message the BHVR team to fix the problem and that's it.
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@XtremeDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909461#Comment_3909461
They are both in my library and show an icon indicating that it has to be played via disc, since i don't digitally own dbd
So basically, you lose / break the disc —> You cannot play DBD and your whole progress disappears ? Or you can play another disc, insert it and it's okay.
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I mean the exact error message. I honestly don't know if devs are on this forum but I don't think it's intended for bug triage. I believe there is another way to send an email directly to their support team tho.
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@XtremeDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909461#Comment_3909461
I wanna do that in the future and get the shards, though i apparently do not own thr game according to my BHVR account
Do you get a message error or something when you try to link and it doesn't work ?
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I don't know about console but on PC (Steam, Epic games store), you don't need to link your DBD platform account with BHVR. It's only useful to get 4500 free iri shards and being able to cross sync your progress on different platforms.
I would assume if you have DBD in your console library which is an account and only intend to play it on console, you don't run any risk but maybe I am misunderstand the "i play with the game disc". So you don't have it in your library and you have to insert it in your console to play ?
If true, I would be a bit worried ngl
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Last sentence maybe not true for some killers like nurse midwich idk.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909421#Comment_3909421
This reasoning of "having infinite time on hook" doesn't hold water under scrutiny though.
It's not in the survivor's best interest to have a transfer in time out for longer than is necessary. Most comp, or even just high level teams unhook as soon as possible: "hook bombing".
The only reason to even use reassurance is if the killer is just standing at the hook, preventing an unhook entirely. Nothing is keeping the killer there except their own agency.
Reassurance just makes that "possibly not the best strategy", and honestly, with the short range that reassurance has the killer can leave the survivor on hook and chase the reassurer and still have more pressure than just standing still.
I don't buy the "you have to camp and tunnel to win" arguments. It's a cop out for people who think they're gods at the game (or "max MMR", as this community tends to say it). You don't have to be max MMR, or even understand the fundamentals to struggle, you only have to have hit your skill ceiling. And people will default to camping and tunneling as easy strategies, rather than improving skills like map pressure, looping correctly, or even game sense.
Plus the fact that they're planning yet another anti camp feature, tell me the devs don't actually want the gameplay to be "killer waiting at a hook". We might've had progress toward that years ago, but people complained.
Yeah true, I didn't thought that deep, I wasn't even around when the PTB reassurance was a thing ngl, I had to google it.
But from my pov, the effect of the 70 seconds hook buff and anti-camp is doing better work than the old PTB reassurance.
"I don't buy the "you have to camp and tunnel to win" arguments. It's a cop out for people who think they're gods at the game (or "max MMR", as this community tends to say it). You don't have to be max MMR, or even understand the fundamentals to struggle, you only have to have hit your skill ceiling. And people will default to camping and tunneling as easy strategies, rather than improving skills like map pressure, looping correctly, or even game sense."
In normal lobbies, probably true, if you're really good you can probably stomp on 99% of lobbies without tunneling.
In comp where everyone is god tier ? Nah bro that's not a thing, the only time it happens is in specific set like ghostface lery and it's only because they count hook states as wincon and not kills. They will say "Oh yeah I got 7-9 hook state on this set" it's decent. But 3-4 people got out the door. The problem is that most normal players count an escape as win and died as lose.
And all that considering against low tier killers survivors have a LOT of restrictions like a lot of strong perks banned (shoulder, FTP, reassurance, sprint burst…), no duplicate perks, no OP items (syringe, BNP, skyptic), not allowed to use anti-camp mechanics…
It's hard to say for me because idk who BHVR is balancing for. Right now, in the "ultimate no limit highest skill ceiling" scenario I believe it's survivor-sided and you can't affort not to tunnel with any killer.
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DBD is the only game where you could be the most cracked survivor in the universe and still get no more than 50% escape rate in soloQ so yeah soloQ is soloQ and that's it.
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@Bodark said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909392#Comment_3909392
Non of the top 10 most used killer perks are Hexes. Having an empty perk slot is more common than bringing a hex.
Move aroundI think it would be true without thrill the hunt. It would basically become a massive gamble on how efficient the survivors are at finding the totems and you could become 0-1 perk in 2 minutes which against a good survivors team is going to happen a lot. With thrill tho and high mobility killers, if they play it right you simply can't do the totems and have to hard brute force their effects which makes them good imo.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909394#Comment_3909394
The only reason I can see that this was a problem was that it might have actually made an impact against camping, as opposed to what we have now.
The only thing people complained about, and why it was reworked, was the griefing issue. Which was not only overblown, but much more easily solved in one sentence, which I already showed.
Aside from "it might've actually done something", what do you think was problematic about the perk?
I do agree a bit with him because against really strong SWF and comp teams. The PTB reassurance is basically —> "The survivors have an infinite amount of time to unhook as long as someone comes from time to time to reassurance" which is insanity because against these groups of players. You either have to tunnel someone to 3v1 ASAP or some killers can ping pong 2 survivors like blight but ultimately go into 3v1 scenario because 4v1 is survivor sided. All this power with only one person not hooked having reassurance (maybe I am understanding it wrong).
It really sounds like breaking the fundamental concept of hook time.
While true that you can get a kinda similar effect with a lot of shoulder right now, you need more overall perk slots to pull it off I guess and you still don't get as much time but not sure if the average pub survivors would have been able to get value from that.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909360#Comment_3909360
There's no way to know how it would've played out at this point.
The real reason I think PTB reassurance would've made a difference is that only one survivor could go to the camped hook, and extend the duration for (almost) as long as needed.
The duration was 30 seconds iirc with a 40 second cooldown. So a 60s hook could be paused, tick down for 10 seconds and be paused again, as long as the killer is camping. And it would've only taken one survivor (plus the one on hook) to do that.
In theory, that puts tremendous pressure on the killer to leave the hook. The other two survivors have time to finish gens and the killer isn't getting anything extra in return for standing around. Which, unless it's a last minute end game hook, is exactly how that *should* play out.
I personally think camping (as a "strategy" you plan to do every game) is one of the most boring things in the game. You aren't displaying any skill by watching the furniture, you're hoping the survivor team panics and falls apart. Camping should be relatively rare, situational tactic, not "always camp every hook, every time" like it seems to be for some people now.
When or if the survivors don't panic, people aren't self-reflecting and thinking, "wow I really could've used my time better, maybe push someone off of a gen to slow them down instead of lurking near a hook", instead they complain on the forums and demand that gen speeds be nerfed, or regression be buffed.
In a way, you may be right because as a former reassurance enjoyer. To demolish this playstyle, you had to basically hide around the hook and sprint burst reassurance at the correct moment. (If you reassurance instantly at the time, the killer just chase you and you get minimal value, it's like he just didn't camp.)
But a lot of time you had a problem of a teammate not understanding the game plan and trying to go for the unhook early with you around. So with the PTB reassurance I guess you could just straight reassurance to always force the killer to not camp.
But idk, from my pov, I would have considered changing the PTB reassurance more because it sounds extremely strong rather than the "holding hostage" thingy.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
My opinion on reassurance hasn't changed since release.
PTB reassurance was perfectly fine, and even if we want to consider "griefing" scenarios (where the killer and at least two survivors all work together to hold someone on hook indefinitely), that situation is/was completely, entirely solved by "press e to cancel reassurance".
If the perk hadn't been completely gutted from ptb to release, we may not have needed all of the other mechanics like StB, AFC, or even the upcoming "anti camp" feature.
But, "hello, fellow survivors" won that fight years ago, and we are where we are today because of it.
I honestly don't believe PTB reassurance would have changed anything. Getting reassurance even once was devastating for hard campers at the time. But even in an environment where camping was so common. I remember most people were not running reassurance and a lot of people who did were not really that good at using it (Rebecca mains I see you). And a lot of them were simply not doing gens all trying to rescue even though the guy on hook had kindred and you said you had reassurance pre game chat.
So I guess there's also a part of survivors skill issue and they had to built-in stuff because people were getting demolished but I also don't know if it's "healthy" to NEED a perk to counter a playstyle. But hey; I mean perks that feel "needed" aren't that new right ? Regression, anti-tunnel, yada yada
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@SeriousRain said:
I can see it being strong in turnament setting or in SWF group.
Anywhere else it usualy does nothing.
Yeah but in tournament there are limitations like unique perks. Now, don't get me wrong it's probably still super strong since I believe reassurance is banned against every killers in comp. I also believe in the next season of DBDL, they are banning FTP except against tier I killer (nurse, blight, billy, spirit, and maybe kaneki). But so is shoulder, shoulder is just straight up banned on every killers like reassurance I think.
But in a no-limit setting, you could just run something like 2-4 shoulder and you could not camp anyone anyway even if they're all just trading hooks. Don't seem like reassurance is that needed.
It's kind of like FTP where in comp I have seen it used as an anti-tunnel perk on unhook or against ghostface lery to transfer a health state if you're 99 stalk. But the anti-tunnel part is just outclassed by shoulder imo.
I believe these comp teams are also doing pub survivors winstreak with more lax rules (only no duplicate perks and no items with broken add-on I think). And the strategy I seem to observe is 1 deliverance, 1 wicked, 1 shoulder, and sometime FTP. But no reassurance in sight, maybe I am wrong tho I am not that interesting in a super comp team demolishing pub killers ngl.