Magician
Magician
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@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1312543#Comment_1312543
This is the kind of new player feedback that I think the developers should seriously acknowledge and respond to (@Peanits @not_Queen et al.), because for every one of this guy, there are a lot more potential players who aren't bothering. Those 47% month-over-month peak player drops don't happen for no reason.
I think you are right. I have around 100 hours in dbd and new charcters come faster than I can keep up. People say the difderent characters feel like different skins in the end, but that also the case on the front end, and despite it being fairly easy to get the first few perks for a single charcter somewhat quickly, it just feels completely off and way overbearing, asking way too much of me to get to the point where I can just game the game instead of getting miniscule upgrade after miniscule upgrade.
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@Magician said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1312674#Comment_1312674
I feel like dbd is f2p format despite not being a f2p game.
To further elaborate, I believe the system was constructed in the beginning with f2p format as plan B if things didn't go well. It's just that plan A worked and the system was not appropriately adjusted to exclude plan B. They still may have f2p plan B as an option should things go bad. I think it is what they are counting on in the future.
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@Kilmeran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1312585#Comment_1312585
The problem is, they basically don't see it as an issue, or merely point to the post Level 40 bloodweb offering an additional perk as the solution. Which it isn't. There's still the massive grind for new players on top of the RNG on top of the multiple tiers for every perk. I have never seen a game constructed quite like this, where character build diversity is a core design, and yet being able to play with and experiment with builds is barricaded behind a massive grind that is further barricaded by stupid RNG.
I remember back in Paladins Beta when the cards for your character builds were similarly locked behind a grind + RNG. Know what the end result was? Even Hi-Rez of all studios admitted and recognized the asinine nature of that system and removed it (albeit, not before it bled a bunch of players that never returned). Instead, all cards are unlocked on every Champion, and you are given 15 points. You have five card slots to build with, and each card can be increased from Level 1 to Level 5 for 1 point. So, you could max one out to Level 5, and have 10 points left for the remaining four cards, or have all five cards at Level 3, and so forth.
But the point is, even new players can immediately begin experimenting with builds and seeing what works for their play style right out of the gate.
The DbD system? This system is so asinine, it's really beyond words. Back in 2016 with so few characters, it probably seemed like a good design choice. Unfortunately, it clearly shows that little planning was made with that design choice in regards to character roster growth or, hell, just game growth over the subsequent years.
Did they not expect the game to succeed or grow?
I feel like dbd is f2p format despite not being a f2p game.
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@Dead_by_Gadfly said:
Has anyone ever tagged a dev in one of these grind threads? I dont recall anyone asking about it for QA.
I did not tag a dev but they saw one I posted. I only have started 2 so it is easy to find. I don't recall the dev responding.
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@Kilmeran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1308303#Comment_1308303
I posted this in a similar thread today, but since it applies here, I'll just repeat it:
I've had several friends/family people try DbD on free weekends. And they enjoyed the game play, were ready to buy, then realized the grind involved.
They walked away and did not buy. They don't mind grinds. Hell, they've played a lot of MMOs over the decades. But they looked at the DbD grind and basically said: No thanks.
I now have quit the game because of it. The grind is stupid.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Prestige is optional.
You can’t complain about the grind on something that isn’t mandatory to progress in this game.
It is a f2p format despite being paid for. A brand new player has no real chance. Avg bps per game will be 30k if even, or you can hardcore grind which makes the game dull. It is just too much. The system was meant for the game as it was like 4 years ago.
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@Raging_Ryuga said:
I really feel like the grind in this game is too much. I literally have 2200 hours in the game and I still am barely p3 maxing my characters. I dont have any p3'd survivors but I have like 12 max p3 killers with all perks i've been working on recently
the grind is just too big, even when i'm level 50 it takes like..2-3-4 million even being ALREADY at level 50 just to get all the perks
There are too many perks in this game right now, and I believe at some point in time we either need to have a cut down on the blood web, or yet the most simple solution REMOVING PERK TIERS
This would not only vastly reduce the grind, it would also help the devs bc they don't need to keep up with all these different perk tiers imo. I'm dumping so many points into one killer for like a WEEK straight and can't even max them out. To me that just feels ridiculous. That's with stacking survivor puddings and 4 stacks of bbq it's just insane to me
I have been begging for a solution to the grind. I don't buy dlc because of it and have a hard time taking the game seriously any more. They just don't seem to care.
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@Peanits said:
I, for one, am keeping an eye out for the traditional "New Killer OP" post right next to a "Next Killer Sucks" post. If you see it, please grab a screenshot for us. Thank you.
Not trying to be snarky, but you all should keep an eye out for people complaining about the grind to level characters. The current system is completely outdated and was useful when the game only had a handful of characters. The entire philosophy of "just run grind perks till..." ruins the game imo. The game "off-the-shelf" now is only for people who have been on since the beginning. A lot of people agree. I don't understand why you don't adopt a formula more like rocket league--cosmetics, cosmetics, cosmetics, cosmetics, and more cosmetics. Grind for the cosmetics, not basic gameplay elements. A huge grind for gameplay mechanics feels uber gimmicky and just frankly frustrating.
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1276441#Comment_1276441
Yes,just hate how much BBQ and WGLF are mandatory just so you can get a decent amount of points.
I would love to use different kinds of builds but playing without these perks and getting so little points just feels really bad.
You would like a post I made about this where I specifically addressed the devs
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@PassarinoT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1276197#Comment_1276197
Then let's retouch this math. And perks are not going to be included in this equation because not all players have access to it.
(All numbers are rounded down for length sake.)
1,540,000,000/30,000 = 51,333 games.
Let's be lenient and say games are 13 minutes, 3 minutes for queue/load, 10 minutes for gameplay.
51,333 x 13 = 667,329
667,329/60 = 11122 hours
1 calendar year consists of 8,760 hours.
11,122/8,760 equals 1.269 years.
Not like playing the game for that time in date to date, playing for that time in raw gametime. No breaks.
This is if each game is 13 minutes and you get 30,000 bloodpoints. As survivor, that's difficult to get. As killer, definitely more possible but not always so in just 10 minutes.
I honestly can't believe they haven't changed it. It is terrible and so offputting.
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@cheetocultleader said:
As a newer player, who has 4 survivors to go and 0 killers leveled -- I beg of thee BHVR. 👀💦 Do sumtin'.
Probably gonna prestige one survivor and one killer. I can't imagine doing more with this system. I still like the idea of removing tiers from perks as well. There's less than a hand full of perks people want at tier 1, and those could be reviewed to see which people use more.
Their system is insanely outdated. People have admitted, me included, that they will not purchase dlc because they don't want to grind new characters.
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@DelsKibara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1276155#Comment_1276155
Jesus F-ing Christ.
I didn't do the math for the amount of actual hours you need to spend but holy crap on a bicycle. That really makes the grind much more worse in prespective if you put it in actual YEARS.
It is completely ridiculous. I stopped playing the game because I feel like such a tool over the grind. Can you imagine a game like overwatch being as successful if you had to grind up characters like this? It is completely ridiculous. I made a post a while back about how the philosophu of the grind ruins the in-game experience.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/59909/buff-were-gonna-live-forever
WGLF is just meant to give you a bonus for being the person doing the unhooks and bodyblocking. It is made so that the higher risk play style that saw for David King was rewarded in turn with extra bp. The only thing they did was give people what they asked for. They took nothing away and gave nothing extra.
It was getting called We're Gonna Farm Forever for a reason. People wanted players who were running this to have to actually use their brain when going for the unhook. Instead of just pulling someone down off the hook only to get them downed and rehooked for points. Why should you get anything punitive towards the killer who has nothing to do with that perk interaction?
Which is pretty much why I play David King. I honestly would rather not bother with this perk.
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@Saturday_the_14th said:
That's all. I'm so, so tired.
They're not going to remove 4-man single white females.
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@YourFather said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1073580#Comment_1073580
To add more detail to your response.
It all depends how well do the survivors and killers play.
If they lose mind games, it will have consquences.
On the survivors side it all depends how well your team plays, if they play bad.The killer wont get punished for doing those mistakes.
If you have troubles as a solo survivor start adding people, find friends, and deal with the situations.
Or watch streamers to get better at the game in solo queue. For example: No0b3,Monto,Ulysses
Hey thanks! Honestly I survive probably around 40 percent or so...not exactly sure. I do stupid inadvisable things a lot though. I am just surprised that people always seem to complain hard about the killers. I know there are real issues sometimes, but when I play killer I seem to get kills easily. Oh well. Thanks!
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@arcnkd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1073371#Comment_1073371
Actually, as someone that prefers playing killer, I just want a game where I feel like a horrifying and terror-instilling killer instead of someone the Survivor runs around toying with because that's what the Devs think is 'exciting' instead of the tension of sneaking around and trying to complete objectives without being found.
I think the average for games should be 2-kill-2-escape; especially if the Devs continue to refuse making a killer proportionally stronger than a Survivor (4x due to 4v1 nature); in a perfectly balance proportion the Killer would be equally as strong as a team of 4 survivors - getting 25% stronger with each Survivor taken out of the game (hooked or killed).
It is already bad enough that killers have to go through 8 to 12 hooks to sacrifice all 4 survivors (barring the use of Moris); while the survivors only need 5 generators between all four of them. However, I also think that the 2-2 ratio should be obtainable without the killer having to resort to slugging or hyper-focusing; but that requires fundamental changes with the core mechanics of sacrifices and bloodpoint reward focuses.
Yeah, I agree that all the hits and hooking are kind of rough. I agree that on average 2 people should get out, 4 kills and all 4 getting out should both be relatively rare. Thanks for your remarks!
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@WRussoW said:
Kills don't mean winning. I can stomp 4 potato survivors at the beginning and will I call it a good game where I've truely won? Of course not! It's all about how fun the match was. I did a lot, survivors did a lot, I got 1 during a midgame and 1 kill during the endgame even with NOED being disactivated and noone was teabagging and writing anything bad in the post-game chat? Wow, it was good! I won, I had time to use my skill and now I feel satisfied! NOONE thinks that killing someone with NOED or Rancor during the end is a win, especially when a killer was genrushed.
Well you have a good attitude about it then.
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@OrangeJack said:
Stop whining killers!
Whines about freddy
How about we teach survivors that if they die but all 3 of the other survivors escape then they haven't lost.
And this really goes to the heart of the matter. There are too many people who as killers believe that they should do better than at least 50% success rate, wherein that 50% is defined as killing everyone; it doesn't include when one person escapes. So people think that their failure rate (1 survivor getting out) should be less than 50%. So, in their heads they think that the rate in which 2 people survive should be no more than 40% probably. That is the problem. They want killers to be so strong that 2 people escape only like 30% of the time. It is a bad game for survivors.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1073341#Comment_1073341
Where in my statement did I declare you to be a Survivor or Killer main?
Okay, maybe I am wrong, but you said "sides," and I am the one who started this.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1073315#Comment_1073315
Both sides believe that the other side has ruined the game thanks to whining.
But your statement has a major flaw. You assume I am a survivor main or that I don't associate as a killer.
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@OrangeJack said:
Stop whining killers!
Whines about freddy
How about we teach survivors that if they die but all 3 of the other survivors escape then they haven't lost.
All of the whining has caused a lot of the survivor experience to be gutted. The game used to be more fun imo. If they were going to do that, they should have just made killers stronger. Killers now just want to be op even with so many things changed and they still complain because it isn't easy to have a dominate win with 4 v 1. They just want easy kills and easy map control. It is too much.
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@HellCatJane said:
If you really want to punish facecamping, just accelerate gen speed repair for survivors (when this happens), so they can finish them even faster and leave. They already have it so you lose emblems for doing it... so shrug.
This is what I said. Agreed.
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@arcnkd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1070813#Comment_1070813
Hands down this is my attitude with the game. And a lot of it comes from the majority of Survivor players don't want to struggle to survive or play 'stealthy'. They want to go toe-to-toe with the killer without the tension/ambient tension of worrying they will be found. In a perfect world, the killer would be roughly 4x more powerful than any single survivor - the odds of surviving 2-2 would be the average for matches with all four survivors alive; dropping as the survivors fell. Gameplay would have an emphasis on avoiding the killer and not wanting to be found and chased by him, instead of the "we need engaging games" focus that the game has now.
I mean look at F13 though. That is more like what you want and it didn't last. Also, in DBD, there is no such thing as real stealth when you have to do 5 gens that are so well advertised to the killer. Killer is by definition op compared to survivors too. If you aren't scared at all in DBD, you probably would just develop a new norm in the game you want to play and think it wasn't scary becasue you don't see the killer enough or is boring because you go everywhere and do everything at a crawl.
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@KingFrost said:
We can see how many generators are left in the HUD, so why not Totems? That way if people were worried about NoED, they could work on Totems before they finish up the generators. Which in turn could slow down how fast those gens pop. Maybe this idea has been suggested before, but I think it'd be beneficial to both survivors and killers.
This is a great idea.
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@MythMage said:
I'm gonna be real with you, it feels this way. The newest patch just showed us this. While Doctor did get a really good rework that is fun to play and verse, it's WHY they did it that angers me. The devs looked at how he was annoying to play against, but said nothing about how weak he was. Granted, they gave him a power boost, pushing him from (in my opinion) top upper-middle of B teir to Freddy level, which is amazing, but they didn't seem to take into consideration the killers. Ruin was even worse. They stated that in 80% of red rank games, Ruin is used. They said that they looked into why it was annoying to play against, but not why it was needed.
There was a Q&A interview with the devs where one of the questions was about bad/underused perks. They said they are working on that internally and that they even have a short list of ones they are specifically targeting to fix. Among about 9 perks he stated, ONE of them was a killer perk (I believe the perk was unrelenting or something like that).
These are not the only examples. The devs have continuously made killers weaker and weaker. The Legion rework absolutely destroyed him. He is, in my opinion, the second worst killer in the game. He wasn't even good before the rework unless you were running a tryhardy build, but he was "annoying to play against", so they nerfed him into the ground. Bubba was made in a rush, and has never really been looked at again. Ruin has been nerfed, Dying Light has been nerfed, and these are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head (I'm not THAT knowledgable about past patches). Meanwhile, survivors are just as strong as ever, if not stronger. Sure, MoM and DS have been nerfed, and pallet vacumms have been fixed, but these changes are nothing compared to how bad the killers have it. The gen times are absolutely ridiculous. Even amazing killers like Otzdarva and Ardetha struggle against gen times. You can apply pressure all you want. In the end, if the survivors are good, and at least on of them is on a gen, there's not much you can do. I genuinely believe the devs are biased towards survivors and have made the game incredibly frustrating and unfun for killers. If the killer has to play like a scumbag to win, you've screwed up BHVR. That's not fun for either side.
So if you look at the release of killers, they seem to start op and get nerfed. The probable reason for this is to get people to buy the DLC for the killer and play the killer. To answer your question, yes. Nobody wants to play horror-movie-bad-guy-kills-you simulation.
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GL with this
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@Zeur said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1070030#Comment_1070030
except for they removed instant blind from the game because it was a form of killer bullying but camping survivors has never been considered a form of bullying, you are back tracking instead of looking for fixes to a future game.
Well, if it can be shown to be a big problem, maybe they need to buff all survivor actions while the killer facecamps. I don't really know what else to do. If the killer camps hard and is faced with a near automatic loss, that would probably fix it. I think that would kill two birds with one stone. One, if the killer leaves, the survivor comes off the hook and survivors couldn't manipulate the buff bc they don't control what the killer does. Also, however, if survivors know the killer is incentivized to leave so the buff doesn't happen, then they will be incentivized to go save a survivor instead of doing gens, which helps the killer. I think that could be a fair trade off. I gotta be honest though. The higher level I get the more greedy and selfish survivors seem to be, which in some ways helps prove your point. It is frustrating that a lot of people just give up and quit, so you don't even get the benefit of the killer being distracted.
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@Zeur said:
Since the dawn of this game survivors have been asking for you to punish killers for camping hooks. I have been a member of this community since the very beginning. All I have seen since then has been lots of nerfs to the quality of life of survivors to try to make up for what was essentially an imbalanced game. I do understand that for the longest time survivors were on top and over powered I have seen a good majority of the changes as a fair balance, but there becomes a point where you over balance and instead of balancing a game you actually throw the game into the other sides favor so heavily that it kills out the die hard fans you did have.
I have seen so many changes in my time playing this game from the windows being blocked off after 3 vaults in a chase all the way to the changing of jungle gyms to try to stop pallet looping and removal of instant medkits. I have yet to see a significant nerf to killers where it feels balanced and fair. (before any killer mains get salty and ree in my face hear me out) I feel like the game is in a bad place right now because I and many other survivors paid for the same game as killers. We paid for the cosmetics the dlc's and the new addition the rift. When killers camp survivors you ruin their game play. You remove their ability to play a game that they paid for. Killers go on rants for many reasons they camp and they say its part of the game and its fair, but is it really fair to remove someones ability to play a game that they paid money for?
People who want to counter my argument...
Listen to me when I say that gen rushing is not always a viable strategy, not every survivor is going to hold on when they are being camped on the hook. Most survivors will actually kill themselves and let go, because why would you really want to hold on in a game when you can just queue up for the next one and maybe have a better game? I don't even get upset when I am playing with other survivors who are being camped that let go, yes I sigh and basically say gg, but hey would I do the same? yeh sometimes I would unless i am in a swf I would just let go and go to the next.
On to the next point the perks/add-ons added to counter camping don't actually counter camping...? shocker right? Let's start with the favored camping counter perk.
- Borrowed time no longer saves the person saving the person on the hook, instead you often times trade places. What are the odds someone else has borrowed time? What about trying to unhook someone from a face camp and being pulled off the hook? Now thats two people on hooks.
- Camaraderie only stops the hook timer for 25 seconds, and it only works when a survivor is around the hook, thus telling a killer a survivor is around and either A.) they look for the survivor or B.) face camp the survivor
- both add-ons for medkits takes too long to use and will cause one or the other survivor to go down when used.
Killer Perks
- Barbecue and Chilli does not promote a non camping style of play. Changes made to BBQ&Chilli actually promote a camping style if they cant find a new survivor, doesn't matter if the survivor lets go, always will get another stack of it if finding a new survivor. Even in the older version of BBQ&Chilli if you didn't see survivor aura that meant they were around the hook and you should camp.
- Insidious promotes killers to camp hooked survivors with their terror radius reduced to zero. I mean really?
So what should be the next step into stopping camping once and for all? Penalization by removal of points gained by time spent camping survivors on the hook. Since points for barbecue and chilli by going and finding new survivors was not incentive enough to camping killers maybe the removal of their points for such acts will change their minds. We should not be playing a game that is paid for by its users to sit and not play the game, we should not be making excuses for the act of camping, we shouldn't have to give incentive to killers to go and find survivors.
We have been listening to only the killer side of this coin for far too long, this has been a problem since the beginning of the game, it hasn't changed or went away but more people have paid for this game behavior, more people want to actually play the game, but when you are put in matches and 5 times out of 10 you are face camped proxy camped and expected to A.) hold on so your teammates can have a better chance at survival or B.) rely on perks as your maybe possibly slim chance get out of jail free card . The game feels more like a chore to play then a game anymore. If I was to go through a list of changes to the mechanics of the game for killers not perks mechanics. The list would feel never ending but this one thing us survivors have been asking for since the very beginning is treated like a mechanic rather then a problem i become skeptical of whether or not you actually listen and care about the people who play survivor and pay just as much to play your game as the people who camp the hooks.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/010/KLK737BU7YAQ.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/679/8KYLJGKXASAD.png
Please behavior it's gone on long enough, I've been here through thick and thin I have seen change after change to the game some for the better some for worse. Survivors needed nerfs some killer add-ons still need nerfs, dedicated servers ruined dead hard. Pallet loop reduction and the increase of pallet unsafe locations without the removal of bloodlust (a change you deemed necessary to stop looping that still exists in the game after loop changes.) Please at least consider changing the idea of camping being a viable strategy
Another thing that could be done is to change the perks that show the killer while a survivor is hooked to also include buffs to all other activities so that the decision to facecamp really weighs on the killer. It kind of already does though.
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@Zeur said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1069269#Comment_1069269
except for the fact that survivors who get camped will just kill themselves and let go, making it a legitimate 3v1 instead of 4v1 most of the survivor base doesnt want to waste their time waiting for a game to end when they can go to the next.
I think the problem is that survivors who let go should be penalized or it should be easier to hold on. You complain that it quickly becomes 3v1, but you say it is the killer's fault that a survivor quit. Aside from that, 4 survivors vs 1 killer means in the long run, even if every killer facecamped, you are only facecamped in at best 25% of games, considering some killers fail to hook a single person some games, so less than 25% practically. Most killers do not facecamp much, so it should be more like around 10% of the time you are facecamped to death through all your lives. I don't think it is that much of an issue. However, if you would like something changed, my suggestion would be to increase the chance of getting yourself off the hook while at the same time giving you a chance to auto blind the killer with the flashlight while on the hook if the killer is facecamping, and for that blind to last longer than typical blinds. I think that would fix it.
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@cynichism said:
This is the fifth time in a day I've got a lit totem spawning in the middle of everywhere. I mean this one is right in front of the exit gate, next to a hook, and a gen.
Earlier one was just outside a killer shack, with the basement. No one ever goes looking around there eh?
Then one two feet from a gen. Gee, I wonder if a survivor might see that during their gen rush..
Seriously what's the point in trying to use hex perks of the RNG spawns for then are going to be so consistently terrible?
I wouldn't worry about it. On some maps they can be really hard to find. Some hexes are really strong too and waste the survivor's time, not to mention give away their location when broken.
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@Karl_Childers said:
The game is the way it is because survivors aren’t interesting in playing horror movie kill simulator. This is a PvP game, not a true horror game. Survivors are not scared of the killer for that reason. It’s more competitive than horror. The type of game you’d want would never last. Each side needs to have an equal shot at winning, and many players would find needing to hide all the time boring. The chase is what many people find the most fun. That’s why looping, pallet stunning, all the other stuff you hate exists. Survivors need to have the ability to extend chases and not be downed immediately. Otherwise, where is the fun? Again, this is PvP so while it may technically be called horror, it is nothing like solo game where you are immersed such as Resident Evil or Outlast. In those horror games, hiding and playing stealth is a big part of the fun. Not this game (for most players). So if you were expecting a game where you roleplay as your favorite movie killer, survivors are scared of you and helpless if found, sorry but that just isn’t going to happen.
This explains it in a nutshell: "The game is the way it is because survivors aren’t interesting in playing horror movie kill simulator." What is the point in having weak survivors and hardly ever seeing each other on screen? I made the reference to F13 above. When Jason shows up, if he wants you dead, you are gone, and you barely spend any time seeing your competitor in a competitive game. I respect op's opinion but really like DBD the way it is.
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@ThatScottishGuy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1062717#Comment_1062717
Did you actually read what I said? I played EXTENSIVELY, I got the platinum trophy. I played both roles to almost every achievement and P3 lvl 50. I found survivor to be ungodly boring, I didnt expect to 4k every game either as killer but that was my far preferred role. I agree survivors being seen should t be an auto death sentence but theres no tension, no horror, no rewarding gameplay and little fun. I reallllly want DbD to succeed as theres nowhere else I can play as that cast of characters but in its current state its awful.
Or for example you could play as a turd survivor and just run around dropping pallets for no reason and equip with flashlight to try blind when they are broken. Another thing is to purposefully trigger gens left and right just to see how much you can irritate the killer. Just try to make it fun.
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@ThatScottishGuy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1062717#Comment_1062717
Did you actually read what I said? I played EXTENSIVELY, I got the platinum trophy. I played both roles to almost every achievement and P3 lvl 50. I found survivor to be ungodly boring, I didnt expect to 4k every game either as killer but that was my far preferred role. I agree survivors being seen should t be an auto death sentence but theres no tension, no horror, no rewarding gameplay and little fun. I reallllly want DbD to succeed as theres nowhere else I can play as that cast of characters but in its current state its awful.
Maybe just put it down for a bit and come back. Maybe just play for fun and try to not worry about achievements. Just try off the wall stuff like dropping two hooks in a corner and running to the corner then try to wiggle free and have a laugh when you run back to the same corner after wiggling free. Just be a pest in ways that are silly.
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It's not that bad. They need the survivors to feel like they have a chance. It is in the horror genre but it is a game of wits with a horror setting. F13 came out with a similar concept around the same time and didn't last well. Part of the problem was that Jason could just end you immediately and then you needed to find a new game. I suspect new players wouldn't have a chance at all in DBD if killers could more easily kill them. Competitve online games need a sort of redemptive aspect where if you screw up you get another chance. I think they want 2 people to escape on average.
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@Plaquer said:
4 Blinks was a problem, thats why it was removed, her original move speed being that of a normal killer was a problem, so it was removed, her fatigue was to short and made escaping a chase nearly impossible, so it was increased in duration. All you are suggesting is reverting the nerfs that were made after 3 years of people playing nurse, 3 years of experience and practice and getting destroyed by the still best killer, Nurse. I agree that the bugs certainly need to be addressed, but once she is functional and consistent, she will be in a good spot. Her chasing ability is unmatched, her snowball potential is unmatched, her mobility is only matched by other top tier killers like Billy and Spirit, she is powerful, but she is by far the hardest to play, the ability to totally negate a survivor's defenses needs to come with a harsh trade off, so having a long cooldown and a fatigue allows survivors to punish her hard when she makes mistakes, but inversely, survivors don't need to make mistakes to go down, nurse never relies on survivors being bad, she is so capable that she can take advantage of a situation no matter how well the survivors do, the main problem is she is boring and difficult, many people abused her easy mode addons (i.e. extra blinks, reduced fatigue, omegablink, etc.) to boost themselves to high ranks. Nurse is supposed to be difficult, she has low kill rates because people struggle with her, as they should, since she has the most kill potential out of all the killers, but she relies the most heavily on player input and skill.
Everything Plaquer says in his post pretty much sums up exactly how I feel about the situation. There was a recent forum topic about the same, saying the nurse isn't any good. I disagree. She can be great depending on the circumstances, but can also be poor depending on the same. I think her base movement speed could be increased a bit to get her played more, but other than that, be careful what you ask for. If the Nurse's blink cooldown were removed and she had even 3 blinks, no survivor could ever get away from her, ever. The survivors in the game need to have hope of getting away, and it would be bad enough with two blinks, but 3-4 with no cooldown and she is a monster. Here are some tips for playing nurse better. First off, you have to blink to be successful with Nurse--a non-blink nurse doesn't work. Not only is Nurse too slow, but the only thing that potentially scares survivors and gets in their head is that Nurse can just appear suddenly and hit them. Second, Nurse is environment specific, so if you play nurse in asylum or tight levels with lots of walls, it can feel terrible, and the reason is because, if you can help it, you never want to start a blind blink without visual proof where the survivor is you are chasing, and with tight walls, you pretty much have to do that. In contrast, on open levels, Nurse is very strong because the killer can see you a lot and can turn a corner to see you run off. The exception is if someone keeps running a circle around a small set of walls. So bide your time and blink wisely. Fourth, don't blink directly at a hidden gen...blink to the side then blink at the survivors to get hit and generate a trail. It is too imprecise to try and get on one particular part of the gen to score a hit, especially considering you don't know exactly where a survivor is on the gen. In contrast, always go for the straight hit when you see healing taking place. Open gens don't matter because you can see each other anyway, but you should still go for the two-part shot because it is easier to get a hit that way. Fifth, always blink for hits and always take a swipe when close unless so close walking makes sense. Sixth, never blink through two walls if you can help it. If you do, try to have in mind a large landing zone (big open space). Things that come to mind are diagonally blinking across two walls of the same room to cut a corner. If you are far from the corner, don't do it because you set yourself up to faceplant the first wall and small changes in rotational view before blink make for large changes in distance relative to what you are trying to pass through. If you faceplant the first wall, you are set up for a blind blink. Specifically, consider the killer shack looping. The proper play is to go inside the shack and blink through one wall out of it toward the survivor (smart nurse), not blinking from one external wall to another external wall (dumb nurse). The above does not apply if your are only trying to pass into a narrow hallway through one wall. Sometimes you have to do that. Seventh, consider proximity facecamping to use hooked survivors as bait. This is extremely true if you have already killed two survivors and have a third either down or hooked. There are important reasons for this. First, if the hatch opens, you have to blink to find it most quickly. You are better off looking for the survivor (more on this in a moment). Second, if you choose to be slow to look, then the survivor has an advantage because you are slower regardless. Third, if you are blinking you give away your position and proximity to the survivor due to the noise you make. Even if you manage to get the hatch closed, the survivor can tell you are coming a mile away. So you should facecamp the third person and hope the fourth is dumb enough to get close. Once the third is gone, uness you know where the last survivor is, you probably will not get a crafty survivor. Eighth, and I almost forgot, do not add glowing eyes and heads to the nurse. Be as plain and inconspicuous as possible. Yes, I know there is a glowing red light, but all the glowing effects make you stand out like a sore thumb against all the dull backgrounds. Last tip, don't be so hard on yourself as nurse. The fun is in the challenge of playing well with her. Cut yourself some slack and just have fun. The game is very biased toward at least one survivor escaping. With a little practice and the right environment, Nurse can be great.
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@JnnsMu said:
Feral Frenzy, the Legion's power, has a bunch of drawbacks. Some of them do not make any sense. This is my attempt to categorize them and maybe get some of them removed.
First, we have the drawbacks that essentially make sense but aren't appropriate considering how weak Feral Frenzy is right now:
- You can not see survivors' scratch marks and blood pools in Feral Frenzy
- Missing an attack ends Feral Frenzy
- Feral Frenzy can not be activated unless the power gauge is filled completely
- The cooldown animation when coming out of Feral Frenzy is extremely long
- The Deep Wound timer does not go down while running or mending
These next ones don't make any sense to me because Feral Frenzy wouldn't be cheesy or even noticably more powerful without these drawbacks. They are just annoying to Legion players and especially weird for new players to wrap their heads around:
- While in Feral Frenzy, hitting a survivor that is already afflicted with Deep Wound ends Feral Frenzy and drains the power gauge completely
- Hitting a survivor while Feral Frenzy is not active depletes the power gauge by 50% of its maximum
When the Legion was released, they could actually down survivors with their power so some drawbacks were necessary. However, Feral Frenzy is one of the weakest powers in the entire game right now, even when used perfectly. Even removing all of these drawbacks would probably only push the Legion into high mid-tier. It is just baffling to me how one of the weakest killers in the entire game can simultaneously have the most significant power drawbacks.
So please, for the sake of making the Legion at least somewhat viable, remove the last 2 drawbacks I mentioned and maybe one or two of the ones mentioned above those. I can't imagine that being too hard to code.
I don't know man, having a character that sprints a survivor down is kind of op. I don't like going against legion.
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@ABannedCat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1057452#Comment_1057452
I am curious about your rank.
Because when I play Nurse, no survivors ever panic, or hide in lockers and #########. Even if I am having a good day and hit my blink pretty consistent, the survivors are always pretty calm and do smart decisions. They have gone against good Nurses playing old Nurse alot. Old Nurse was really a battle of wits. The ultimate minggame, and a bit of hand-eye coordination. New Nurse is a cakewalk compared to that.
I honestly think the rank is immaterial except better players are better at surviving. I think the success of the nurse boils down to which map you play. The asylum and places like it, yeah, nurse is tough because there are walls everywhere. But with openness, it is much tougher, especially with nurse with 3-5 blinks chained. Even 3 makes just running in open areas very hard. Also, a good nurse will blink to a location just offset from a gen, then blink again toward the survivor, not directly at the gen...most people assume cooldown and will get hit then run, leaving trail. She should probably walk faster by default, but you should be able to kill at least one person as nurse. Hey, if you want a better version of nurse, I am all for it. I think killers feel like they should be able to dominate every game without much trouble on their part. I will refer back to something I already said though: without the cooldown, a good nurse player with 3 blinks should really do very well because the survivors really can't get away, ever. Then if you heal you have to worry about being found out that way, and a lot of times that means revealing the location of two people. I respect the opposite opinions though. The game is heavily biased toward at least one survivor escaping every game. Nurse isn't perfect but she isn't terrible imo. Once people see that you are dedicated to blinking and can connect with it, they get scared, but I too have had so many games with people who play nurse poorly, which in fairness is easy to do, so most people don't care till they realize it is a problem. Then they start looking for lockers.
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@gamesajoke said:
far to op. I played 5 games with demigorgen as the killer not a single person has escaped please fix he is far to fast by himself even without lunge. Lunge not needed. Almost want to start playing as him simply due to the fact nobody who has a fully maxed out survivor could escape racking up blood points
Yes thanks for this. Really not fun to play against bc he ruins the typical cat and mousing.
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@Oicimau said:
I found it no fun, very easy, impossible for the Nurse to have a chance to get me. I just stopped running and let her hook and kill me, for the sake of the player.
Just... no fun to play with her (was my main) and no fun to play against (back then i used to feel thrilled against her).
Its just... sad, very, very, very sad. All Nurses players now looks like a rank 20 Nurse player.
When she finishes the blinks, i feel "now im safe". Back then, "now i have to think fast" cause another blink was coming.
Devs, look at all the feedbacks against, they are majoriry. The cooldown is much more a "let then down".
I think if you blink wisely and plan to usually double blink, nurse is really easy to get kills and cause disarray. The huge issue playing as survivor against nurse is that she can just basically appear like a ghost without warning, even change stories to do it. It's nuts really. I can tell by the way survivors behave, that it realy goes to their heads. More people seem to feel the need to hide in closets. Also, you are never safe healing. I just wiped 4 people out pretty fast with her. I don't think I am that good but great nurses slaughter people. I edited to say this: if there wasn't a cooldown, survivors would have almost zero chance against her, because with the blinking they can't get away from her and hide.
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@TragicSolitude said:
I've been playing No-Blink Nurse, tonight. No add-ons, just running tier 1 Enduring and not Blinking. If the survivors don't realize I'm slow as molasses and try to mind game me, I actually get hooks. If they "hold w," then I'm outta luck.
It's sad I find this more enjoyable than trying to play around her cool down.
I would play with her cooldown, just don't put so much pressure on yourself. You don't have to stress over it. The only thing a survivor is scared of about the nurse is the blink. It is pretty startling when the nurse just appears right next me as a survivor. When I see a nurse who isn't blinking, I am very calm and not scared at all. But when a nurse is dedicated to blinking, my anxiety is high and frankly you can't be sure you aren't going to be gunned down at any moment. You want the survivors to be as frantic and anxious as possible so they make poor decisions. I personally don't think you can do that well with a non-blink nurse. But, of course, you should play however you are most happy.
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@JawsIsTheNextKiller said:
And lighten maps for killers.
Is this acheivable? Would you want there to be a difference?
Survivors complain about the maps not being as atmospheric as they used to be but killers complain when they can't see anything.
It would even make sense in the Lore, the fact that flashlights blind killers and not survivors suggest that they are sensitive to light, as if they see better in the dark.
I think this would completely ruin the game. The fun of the game to me resides in the ability to hide and to attempt use the various visual and audible clues to try and outsmart other players. The snow map is really bright and the experience suffers quite a bit imo.
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@toxicghostface69 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1034603#Comment_1034603
Then why do many low rank survivors use this perk? Must be useful if a majority of red ranks run it.
Because David King is a cool guy character and he has a great perk for getting more blood points. Dead Hard isn't terrible, it just isn't what you think in terms of precision. It is rrally hard to gauge the killer's swing then tell yourself to Dead Hard to get away. Like some others have said, it is really a crapshoot to use.
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@toxicghostface69 said:
I understand dead hard is a situational perk that activates when the survivor is injured, but having it activate every time the survivor is injured is very unfair, especially when multiple survivors run it. It should be like DS where you can only use it once. So many survivors have escaped thanks to using die hard multiple times in the game.
I like others believe Dead Hard is fine. It is true that you can use it on multiple loops and escape over and over using it properly, but a halfway decent killer will know to just wait for a moment so that you waste it. The problem with Dead Hard is that as the survivor, you cannot with pinpoint accuracy use it to evade because you have to spam the button prior to the killer swinging. By the time the killer is seen starting to swing, it is too late. You will go down. So it might help you for a little bit, and if you are really clever, escape totally. But you need to understand that DH cannot be used with much accuracy at all. It is basically spamming a button and hoping to come out free. Somebody asked why people run David with DH, it is because of the bp boost with his perk for saving people then taking hits for them. Then you get off a hook if needed and can Dead Hard to make the killer miss. But I am telling you, try it for yourself and see how wonky and imprecise it is. It isn't what you think.
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@Shirtless_Myers said:
It's Dead Hard and no, it's fine. Infact, many players die because they run this perk and the dedicated servers eat their inputs.
This exactly....you have to spam the button well ahead of time.
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@Oicimau said:
I found it no fun, very easy, impossible for the Nurse to have a chance to get me. I just stopped running and let her hook and kill me, for the sake of the player.
Just... no fun to play with her (was my main) and no fun to play against (back then i used to feel thrilled against her).
Its just... sad, very, very, very sad. All Nurses players now looks like a rank 20 Nurse player.
When she finishes the blinks, i feel "now im safe". Back then, "now i have to think fast" cause another blink was coming.
Devs, look at all the feedbacks against, they are majoriry. The cooldown is much more a "let then down".
I think it would be helpful for people who have success with the nurse to share ideas. I think some people approach the game with such high expectations that failure is broadly defined. If you manage to kill 2 survivors with the nurse, you probably had a decent game. I use the blink to scatter survivors and always try to blink just ahead of where the player is running. You will almost always generate a trail to follow bc they have to run. You don't need to blink, just make an appearance and make people have an "oh crap" moment then just walk them down. Another is that you always take a swing coming out of blink no matter what, whether first or additional blinks. Another is establish a personal threshold if you miss for determing whether you will blink again, like if the player is "x" distance, you automatically blink to close. Another is that you don't blink through two walls unless you are sure the survivor is there--don't blind blink with blind hope. Lastly, if you have tons of trouble, just do proximity facecamping and use hooked survivors as bait. That's my 5 cents. I think the challenge of playing well with the nurse is a lot of fun. It's great to come out of blink right on top of a person being healed too and downing them.
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@inferjus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1054231#Comment_1054231
Thanks for the tip, I already know about 3-gen strat. It is helpful, but it has nothing to do with SB. Thank you anyway!
My favorite thing to see when I am a killer is two survivors dancing around trying to get someone off a hook, because then I know I will probably hook them all because they aren't using that time to do gens. I facecamp so hard and do not feel one bit sorry for it. I get mean messages for it after games. The survivors a lot of times just fall for that bait. It is their problem.
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@inferjus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1054211#Comment_1054211
Depends on how skilled survivor is. Skilled survivors can use it pretty well.
Yes of course. I know it is irritating to watch someone sprint away. I feel you. Try to make someone use it and just change course, or if in the open with the right character, go straight for them if you think you can cut a corner or close fast and proximity face camp once hooked till they are dead. I feel like too many people let survivors off hooks too easily. I mean really though. You know the other survivors are coming. It's bait. The other survivors realistically can't get more than 3 gens done and probably not even two b4 that person is dead bc someone always comes for the save. That type of play makes some people upset, but it is just tough. They have to deal with it. A lot of times the survivors only manage 1 gen in that situation, which afterward puts them in a horrible position with 3 survivors and 4 gens to complete. At that point the killer has a huge advantage and if you face camp again they are in serious trouble, because they might need 2 to 3 gens and only have 2 people left. Alternatively, sooner or later you will catch that person with sprint burst exhausted, or the game will be going on for a very long time. You should really try to force the issue with the last few gens. Good survivors will get gens done. You can't stop that. There are some killers who can close really fast too though. If you get two survivors, it is really kind of a small win, three a bigger win, and get them all and you dominated (max of 24 hits connecting on survivors). I had Billy one match and kept chainsawing between the last three gens. The game went on for like 30 minutes and they finally just gave up because it was near impossible to overcome. If a gen was turning, I knew where they were and kept randomizing which gen I would check on. Same with the hag. Put markers down on three close gens and the survivors are screwed. They have no idea whether you can teleport or not, which lots of times will cause sprint burst to be activated sporadically and in the wrong direction.
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@inferjus said:
So my idea is to instead of running whole 3 seconds at 150% speed with perks like Sprint Burst, Lithe, Adrenaline and Balanced Landing, you gain speed during first 1.5 seconds of run (you start at 100% at it quickly increases to 150%) and run rest 1.5 seconds at 150% speed. It would make exhaustion perks less OP and still make them viable. What do you think?
The thing that I would say is that as long as someone is running, gens are not being done by that person. It is also wise to concede some gens on purpose to get a remaining cluster together. Try hard when two gens are done to concede one or two others so that the remaining gens are clustered together. You can't get everybody every game, but if you do that, most of the time it won't matter what the survivors can do, as getting the gates open will be extremely hard without dying out.
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@Marcavecunc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1054177#Comment_1054177
Yeah Sprint Burst is my least favorite exhaustion perk because of that.. but at the same time, when I leveled up Meg when I first got the game, it taught me not to run everywhere I went..
I prefer Lithe over Sprint Burst though, and there are usually enough vault points to make the perk worth taking with me, unless I end up in Shelter Woods or Rotten Fields.
But a lot of survivors still prefer using Sprint Burst and walking/crouching around, and using the burst when I spot them to get away quickly.
It is an easy perk to use bc it is always applicable, but it also makes you a target once the killer knows you have it. It is also very easy to exhaust and not have when you need it against good killers, so it kind of restricts how quickly gens are done. I don't think it needs to be nerfed. A lot of the time people crash into stuff in the middle of it anyway.
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@Marcavecunc said:
As a killer main, no. Those perks work as intended and the cooldown to use them again makes them fine as they are. Yes, it's annoying almost catching up to a survivor and having them sprinting away but it's all part of the game.
I would say this right here. I am not killer main but the cooldown means that to effectively use them against a killer sprint burst must be kept and not used, which means walking or crawling everywhere. So even if the killer is after someone else, you might need to exhaust it to go ahead and get to a gen. The same is true for trying to save someone bc you might nees to exhaust it to get someone off the hook, otherwise you are walking there the whole time, which is tough to time properly. It is a great perk but honestly it causes some internal problems.