DigitalisObscura
DigitalisObscura
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@NordSahne said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117579#Comment_4117579
Tunneling yes, changing hookstages not, that is the equivalent of changing gen progress, it should never happen, I doubt they gonna introduce the deactivation clause for other perks though, except really game breaking ones, but we don't have these after that anymore
Changing gen progress? You mean Potential Energy?? The perk that's not a problem at all???
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@TheFinalLoaf said:
the stake out change is bad. hyperfocus was the problematic part of stake out + hyperfocus, so hyperfocus should have the special skillchecks.
Especially since people who want to get easier Greats with it can now use This Is Not Happening and bypass Stake Out's token requirement. Hyperfocus seems like it'll do fine usage wise and Stake Out will be completely unused.
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Yeah, I was a little confused on why it showed exactly which totem was the boon. I think it would be fine showing all blocked auras, including the Boon, in white and undifferentiated. I don't think a killer should have to go totem hunting necessarily but they should at least have to have an idea where survivors have been and which totems they've been touching. Especially since this will start seeing play in Hex builds, it should be up to the killer to determine where the boon could be based on the 5 choices rather than just given the answer. Which will be easier for them when they have their own Hex locations shown prior.
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I wasn't able to test every single perk change. I have no issues with any of the number adjustments to lower tiers and I like all of those changes. I do have some concerns about some of the other changes.
Dark Arrogance is my main concern. I don't think the blind/stun drawback offsets how powerful the base effect is now. Faster vaults are situational to the map, faster hit cooldown isn't. This is 5 stacks STBFL for nothing. If this is the direction the perk needs to go, I would really hope that the faster hit cooldown is gated behind an activation. Like "You vault 25% faster. Whenever you vault a Window, your basic attack recovery is 25% faster for X seconds. Cooldown: Y seconds". Even if X and Y are the same and the benefit is maintainable, it would require constant vaulting which would give survivors an opening to react and a clear indicator for when the bonus is active. Alternatively, I would just lower the hit cooldown reduction. It shouldn't be equal to Help Wanted and more than half of STBFL as both of those have pretty big hoops to jump through to get to that point. This was the perk I tested the most and I found it pretty ridiculous.
Help Wanted and Machine Learning are being changed to compromise multiple generators to make them more consistent. I think this is a good thing. My concern here is that Help Wanted is being made more consistent AND more powerful which I don't think is a great idea. The doubled duration and Ruin effect should wait for a later hotfix or patch after seeing how it performs.
Hex: Blood Favor is practically useless now. I can understand the move to Basic Attack only to limit its usefulness for stronger killers who have special attacks, like Blight, and think that change is fine. However, I think restricting it to only triggering on healthy survivors is a mistake. It should counter pallet saves, because it already has counterplay in being a Hex. I think it's perfectly fine for a Hex to say you can't pallet save until you break me.
I hate the change to Undone because it's sacrificing its identity and making it another knock off perk. It will be the Unforeseen to Trail of Torment's originality which I think sucks. Kind of weird that Unknown will have two of those now, huh? I think the mistake made with the original Undone is that it triggered on missed skill checks, whereas it should trigger on Good and/or Great Skill Checks since it's literally undoing that extra progress. That way, it's better the better your opponents are instead of the opposite. This version is fine and seems strong, but I find it insanely boring and lazy how it was changed. Ideally for me it would be something like "Whenever a survivor succeeds a Good or Great Skill Check repairing generators, gain 5 Tokens. Max 30. Performing the damage action on a generator consumes all tokens and instantly regresses the generator by 1% total progress and blocks it for 1 second per token. Cooldown: 60 seconds."
I do not like the Dead Man's Switch changes much. If Pain Resonance is the issue we should go for Pain Res, no? How much does Dead Man's need to be beat up on because of that perk combo?
I'm also a little worried about Thrill of the Hunt, Dominance and Shattered Hope. I actually like all of their changes, but I would hope they get monitored closely as it seems like the amount of time a killer can block totems could be astronomical, which I think could cause some pretty nasty snowballs with Devour where there isn't much survivors can do about it. But I do like those three changes, I think it's nice that we will have more worthwhile totem defense perks than slowdown Thrill.
I went in expecting to not like most of the killer perk changes because this patch gave me 6.1 flashbacks, and I was not a fan of that patch. However, there were a lot of stand out changes that I ended up liking a lot:
- Monstrous Shrine is the big standout for me here. It was great every time I tested it. As is I would use this on a lot of builds.
- Shattered Hope was also very good, and I found a lot of success pairing it with Plaything. Countering boons and protecting Hexes is a pretty natural combo.
- Unbound and Superior Anatomy were fun to run in conjunction with each other, and the 5% Haste for a longer duration was much more impactful. Definitely something I would consider running if it went Live.
Additionally, I did not test Whispers, Unrelenting, Ravenous andKnock Out but their changes sound good to me on paper. I think I would be unhappy if this patch were pushed to Live as is, but it isn't as bad as I was initially expecting.
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Haven't been able to personally test every single perk, though some are just generally fine to me. All of the perks having number adjustments due to Diminishing Returns or pulling up their lower tier numbers are a great change. So I'm mostly going to mention the ones that I have issues with: Shoulder the Burden, Sole Survivor, Borrowed Time, Pharmacy, Slippery Meat, Windows of Opportunity and Stake Out.
I am on board with most of the Shoulder the Burden changes except: "Shoulder the Burden is deactivated for all survivors." I do not like this precedent. In the scenarios in which it's always a full team of survivors I would think it's fine as they can communicate. But DBD isn't and has the option to matchmaking to play with strangers that you have limited communication with before the game. My suggestion would be to disable the user's ability to be Shouldered. This would mean it could not be chained around. Example: Survivor A shoulders Survivor B, but then A gets hooked. Survivor C cannot shoulder them, but they could Shoulder survivor B or D. This would make the hook state risk permanent for the user, and could even be extended to the recipient - preventing both A and B from being shouldered. But I do not think it should impact survivor's C or D who were not involved in the exchange. I'm imagining two duos bringing Shoulder to help their friend but one side is gonna get screwed out of a perk slot. I just don't think it's a good element to introduce to the game. I'd also be behind making it so that Shoulder can only be used by survivors without hook states at all, similar to how Deliverance works out. This would limit it more towards scenarios in which the killer was focusing down one survivor and ignoring the others, rather than being able to redistribute hook states regardless of killer behavior.
I also think the Sole Survivor changes are a bad idea because they abandon the identity of the perk. Taking the name "Sole Survivor", I'm not sure why it stacks on YOU being hooked or YOU specifically completing generators. Nor does the new gate opening speed portion. It is a bit nonsensical for the SOLE survivor to buff the other survivors, right? I still think that this perk should focus on other survivors being hooked and/or killed (likewise, so should Fast Track. Bring back the original, it's just a better designed perk). Personally, I would want the perk to have two effects split between a stacking bonus whenever another survivor is hooked (or maybe unhooked by anyone?), and a temporary bonus whenever another survivor is killed. Perhaps something like: "Whenever another survivor is hooked, gain a token. For each token, other survivors heal you X% faster and repair generators you are repairing Y% faster. Whenever another survivor is killed, you are Elusive for Z seconds." This way, the "final girl" gets helped more by the other survivors as they are picked off, and she's difficult to pin down when they are eliminated. I would think X is 10, Y is 2 and Z is 30 but other values could be tested. Realistically this perk peaks at 6 stacks (with no other survivors dead) so it would be 60% healing speed, 12% repair speed which is only slightly better than Prove's 10%. After that as other survivors die, altruistic bonuses become less useful even at higher values.
For Borrowed Time, I do really like the idea of making it work specifically with Deep Wound. It fits the name of the perk well. However, this effect is worthless as it is. I have two suggestions, which are mutually exclusive in my mind. The first would be to lower the time taken to less than 20 seconds, making it impossible for that survivor to go down due to Deep Wound. I think this would make this perk provide value in a similar way to Clean Break or Moment of Truth - it allows you to do generators while "healing". In this case it's less useful since it's Deep Wound state to Injured state, but that seems fine since there's basically no condition for activating it. The second suggestion would be to keep the timer above 20 seconds but give it a Made For This style benefit. IMO, this should be something like no grunts of pain and no blood but not full Elusive. So this way it would fit into builds as a stealthier alternative to MFT.
Personally, I still hate this version of Pharmacy. I used it before 6.1 ruined it, and my issue then was that it eliminated variance when opening chests. Giving Rummage for other items is fine, but I would prefer it be the other way around. Pharmacy should be the Residual Manifest or Scavenger for Med-kits. Making the initial item always be the same thing is what truly limits it.
Like BT, this Slippery Meat change isn't bad in theory but the effect is simply not worth it. Faster unhook is extremely situationally useful and the efficiency gain if the killer isn't face camping is only half a second. The impact of the extra 5% Haste over 10 seconds is minimal. 10% haste over 10 seconds is an extra 4 meters, 15% haste over 10 seconds is 6 meters. Is .5 seconds and 2 meters really worth a perk slot? Maybe a good idea for this perk would be to transfer BT's extended unhook protections to this perk. So you get unhooked faster and have the Endurance, Haste and Elusive for 10 to 20 seconds longer.
For Windows, I was really skeptical when I first heard it was being changed as the additional vault speed was not mentioned. I'm not sure if 10% Vault Speed is enough to make this worth it, but it might be! I'm not against this part and I understand the split with this and FMA. So my issue is that it's still limited to distance. Just make it show the 5 closest windows the way FMA shows the 5 closest pallets. It will usually show the same stuff as 24m and be consistent so new players aren't confused when they pick up one or the other and have more or less visual clutter. I'd also drop the Terror Radius restriction from FMA or add it here for the same reason.
I'll be honest, the new Stake Out sucks hard. I was expecting to be pretty neutral about this one, too. Why is it the same type of skill check as Overcharge or Oppression? Shouldn't it be in line with Autodidact, the other special skill check survivor perk? With a penalty to missing this skill check I'm going to say I will never touch this perk again. With the initial hoop to get tokens and the severity of punishment when the skill check is missed this perk is more detrimental than it is good. I would either lower the token generation by a LOT or remove the extra regression on a miss. Honestly this is a really bad change and I'm surprised it even made it as far as PTB. Absolute cheeks.
There were a few changes that I really liked so I did want to call them out here:
- Road Life, this should have always been a self healing perk and this change allows it to finally function that way. Perfect, no notes.
- Premonition and Small Game showing auras is both more useful and more clear to new players.
- Dark Sense also showing pallets and windows when the killer gets close to you makes it a great info perk for new players, alerting them the killer is nearby and showing them where to and where to avoid.
- Calm Spirit finally undoing the disastrous 6.1 penalty. Now the only perk I can be mad about that patch ruining is Pharmacy. It's long overdue but it's nice it finally happened.
- Boon: Illumination finally has a noticeable effect, and it's one that I think can be useful when paired with perks like Exponential to counter slugging.
Overall, I was expecting to really hate the majority of the survivor perk changes since the goal of this patch was giving me 6.1 war flashbacks. That didn't turn out to be the case. I do think there are still some major mistakes like Shoulder and Stake Out as well as some more minor mistakes that will just make perks even more useless like Borrowed Time and Slippery Meat. So I would hope there are some adjustments prior to the move to Live. But I am interested in the majority of the changes.
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@Cassiopeiae said:
It would work better as a skill-check perk that rewards precise timing with a slow passive heal. Land a set number of consecutive great skill checks, and you gain a health state.
I agree that this would be a better way to go with the perk. I think the reason I would prefer they do not go this route are because "gen progress into self heal" is so strong in concept that it would need to be held back in more ways than it is now and I'm not fond of tons of hoops for perks. They would have to keep the perk as is on requirements (injured, not broken, X great skill checks) and then include a clause similar to Clean Break where you become broken for Y seconds before healing. And I don't think people would like that either, but there really isn't another way around making that balanced. Syringe effects are absurdly powerful and thus basically require a long time to use in addition to other drawbacks. I think "Y" in this case should be less than Clean Break's 60 seconds but the randomized nature of skill checks, let along great skill checks, makes it difficult to come up with a starting point. I'd probably start with 32 seconds, maybe with the Syringe rider that healing speed works on this as it would a normal heal.
I also just prefer going to an altruistic route because of the quote given on it. It's Vee speaking to a band mate, showing them how to do something under pressure. This makes the most sense to me as a perk where you show expertise (skill checks) to the benefit of another party. But as it is the perk isn't geared specifically towards self healing or altruistic healing so they could really go either way with it.
The main thing this needs to lose is the "until you stop healing" clause, though. Even just having the current effect trigger and last for something like 24 seconds would be worlds better than what we get now.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
Legion is annoying and tedious, especially since the usual strat (don't heal) doesn't really work, but I don't think they should be removed from 2v8.
However, I don't think Legion and Oni should be allowed to queue together, and I don't think an explanation is needed.
Yet Legion warps the entire mode around themselves. Yes, Oni is the best pair with Legion. But who's the best pair with Wraith? Legion. Who's the best pair with Blight? Legion. Wesker? Legion. Spirit? Legion. Nurse? Legion. I think the only killer you could make an argument for that isn't best paired with Legion is Hillbilly because ideally he should be chainsawing healthy survivors. But even then, Legion is still going to be one of the better pairs there.
If they specifically block Legion from pairing with Oni, then it's just going to be Legion with Wesker as the most common duo. And the frustration there is still Legion.
They need to just accept that 2v8 is a game mode that shouldn't include every killer and remove Legion. Commit to never adding Plague and Ghoul. And pretty much everyone else is fair game to include.
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These types of buffs would be neat, especially if they added a new Class focused on looting chests. Which is something I really hope they do - same with totem focused classes, which I think they could do for killer and survivor. Personally, though, the gameplay of survivor being stale isn't my issue and why I'm not playing it this iteration. I find 2v8 survivor fun as it is… when there isn't a Legion. No amount of shiny toys or new effects is gonna make slogging through Legion matches worth it to me, especially after they buffed them this go around.
Like I think the Play While You Wait feature is great. But I haven't used it at all, because being bored in queue is still better than risking being miserable in a Legion match. Item upgrades or new classes sound great, but I wouldn't queue up at all to try them for the same reason.
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@UnicornMedal said:
I think 2v8 peaked long ago. It only seems to get worse with each iteration now. Which is crazy because it doesn't feel that old at all.
Agreed, and not only is it not that old it's been one of the most requested game modes for years. First two versions were great, Resident Evil added Legion and it was only bearable because Wesker and Nemesis are fun enough, IMO. But after that it's just been downhill quick. I even love Oni, but there was absolutely no thought or care put into adding him to the mode while leaving Legion in it. Like it just seems beyond inexcusable to me at this point. What are they even thinking?
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Lengthening the delay wouldn't matter. There really isn't anything they can tweak about Ghoul's power that would make it balanced. Hit scan means it hits or it doesn't, and only one party's input will ever matter. They need to completely rework it.
The lesson to be learnt from Ghoul is that their design process needs better checks and balances, and certain people need to be told "No, that's a bad idea" way earlier than they were.
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Survivor DCs are going to be a frequent occurrence, penalty or not, until they add a killer avoidance system. You are never making these players play against certain killers. It's not happening. They will eat any penalty or find any work around. If you want to stop them from DCing, stop putting them against Pinhead when they refuse to play against Pinhead. Give it one avoid per lobby so SWF doesn't get an advantage. And TBH I really doubt Pinhead would be up there on the list if that was the case. It's really that simple but they're gonna drag their feet on it because queue times are more important than game quality, apparently.
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I'm on board with a lot of these but absolutely not on the 10% Haste for 7 seconds for placing a trap… especially with faster trap setting speed. We know from Skull Merchant that passive Haste effects in killer powers don't lead to good gameplay.
Personally I'm more partial to a locker reload system just because it would break immersion less than Trapper using the Entity Force to psychically grab them. But neither way would bother me from a balance perspective.
I do think the least they could do would be the trap escape being a set time to reduce randomness, that just seems like an obvious one to me.
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I hate map offerings and can't wait for them to get nerfed (and hopefully subsequently completely removed) but this had me curious so I checked the games I've recorded. In my killer games, about 4.5% of survivors bring a map offering. In my survivor games, about 4.1% of killers bring a map offering. This is across around 3600 games since Jan 2023. I don't think map offerings are a survivor or killer sided issue.
I have noticed people bringing them more often lately but that's probably due to the impending nerf more than anything else.
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So a survivor on the other side of the map would be able to Sabo the hook and get that survivor back up? Where is the potential for counterplay on the killer's part for that? Especially if the killer has already moved away from the pick up location, as they probably have because there's no possible indication to them that the hook they didn't choose is being broken. And even if they added a noise notification or something for it, what are they supposed to do about it?
I like Sabo as an aspect of the game but I don't particularly miss it in 2v8, and this would be a catastrophic way to implement it. It sidesteps all of the interaction and trade-offs that make Sabo plays interesting.
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@Stibfa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932000#Comment_3932000
Considering how hard it actually is to pull a body Block of on top of it not working on some loops removing his m2 would be too big of a nerf. Im not against making the m2 harder to hit, (honestly im on controller and its still really easy) but removing it entirely would not be a healty change imo. Hell nerf the aim assist and the enrage vault! Just make minimum leap distance 3 meters.
Like I said I can't say how easy it is post-PTB personally as I refuse to give them money for this killer, but I can say that literally every single Ghoul I have played since launch is getting off body blocks very consistently with almost none of them making mistakes at all - I cannot imagine it is difficult. Y'know like Hillbilly or Bubba where you can tell certain people have a lot of issues avoiding bumping into things or aiming it's obvious there's a learning curve.
The way that it works, it is literally impossible to make it "harder to hit" on mouse and keyboard. They nerfed the aim assist by 95% and there was no change in how quickly those hits were obtained.
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I think they should retire the Common category BP offerings regardless. I'd even be happy with removing the Uncommon ones, too. Then downshift the Rare 100% ones to even out all the offering rarities. None of those are really worth the BP it takes to buy them.
I'd like additional Chest offerings for killer for sure, even a +2 one. Like you said it would help perks like Hoarder or Human Greed. But even without that, additional side objectives to lure survivors into spending time with is just more time off gens. TBH I'd also like additional Totem offerings for either side, too.
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@Stibfa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931757#Comment_3931757
I think the counterplay to ghoul is very clear once enrage vault gets nerfed, his mobility and free hit are very strong parts of his kit that (should) get balanced around having weaker downing /looping potental. Body blocks dont work on all loops and are hard to consistently pull off otherwise ghoul is m1 in loops(if enrage vault gets nerfed). You can actually loop a ghoul. ( Again if enrage vault gets nerfed). You should reset and force him to use his m2, doing this forces him a 8 second cooldown where you get time to run to a loop. Then force him to kick a pallet which gives you time to run to another loop.
Yeah. I can agree with that. Theoretically, I am fine with an extremely high mobility power that that's great for positioning but not much else. So the main pain points to me are when his power is doing a lot more on top of that, and arguably the strongest parts of his ability are the free initial injure and the free hits after enraged vault modifier and canceling. If they got rid of the initial injure and the enraged vault modifier and playing against him was ONLY around body blocking and avoiding the body blocks like OP showed it that would probably feel a lot more engaging.
But that's a big if, because I can't see them peeling away that much of his power without immense blowback. And I'd understand, too. It'd be Ash all over again. I think they just made a huge mistake designing and releasing him this way, and it's enough that I've avoided playing much survivor since his release.
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My main issue with him is that he has an auto-aim hit scan ranged attack that takes a health state and a half. The enraged vault and the timings and speed around his power are also too strong for how little is required to pull them off. I like comparing him to Wesker. They are both 4.6m/s killers who have high mobility powers and where their timings are different highlights why Ghoul isn'-t very fun to play against for me while Wesker generally is. All of these timings are sourced from their respective wiki pages.
Wesker takes 1.5s to charge his power, whereas Ghoul only takes 0.35s. I think this is fine considering Ghoul can't immediately injure you with it, though less than a third of the time is pretty extreme. Wesker and Ghoul both move at 3.68m/s while holding it up and travel at 14m/s after activation, though Wesker slows down to 2.76m/s in between his first and second bound whereas it doesn't seem Ghoul slows down at all. Wesker takes 1.5s after cancelling his power, whereas Ghoul is only 1s. The slower charge time already means he will take less time to cancel so it kind of double dips here. Wesker takes 1.5s to vault something, which I believe Ghoul does as well except while enraged which lowers it to like 0.9s if I applied the modifier correctly. After vaulting, Wesker enters a 1.5s cooldown. Ghoul's is only 1.25s for some reason. Overall, enraged Ghoul spends a little over 2 seconds to get over a pallet before he can swing where Wesker takes 3. So that's almost a whole 4 meters of distance which will equal a hit at most pallets, for an ability that is easier to aim and pull off which seems backwards to me.
Ghoul's cooldowns are also shorter outside of pallets. When they cancel their power after the first use or are out of tokens, Wesker has a 3 second cooldown while Ghoul's is only 2. The only piece they have in common here is after they get a hit they both have a 3 second cooldown, but that also seems pretty unfair to me considering the effort that goes into actually landing that hit. Additionally, Wesker's cooldown is increased to 5 seconds when he has to throw the survivor whereas Ghoul has no similar conditional downside. It doesn't really seem like bodyblocking midloop is particularly difficult, because every single Ghoul I have played against has been able to do it pretty consistently, and then when they do there really there's far less time to react than when another killer would do something similar. Like sure I guess it's harder than the grab attack and the enraged vault hits but like… that's a pretty low bar.
Personally, I don't think there is anything they could do to Ghoul's current power that would make it "acceptable" to me. I think it's an egregious design flaw to have it work the way that it does, which is made worse by the fact he requires a lot less from the killer player to be as effective than similar killers. None of his changes addressed the issues I had with him on PTB or release. I'm sure his kill rate has reduced slightly with the tweaks, but the experience of playing against him hasn't changed at all. All of the most frustrating aspects are still there the same as they were when he was launched.
I don't really have an opinion of playing as him anymore, since I only did so a few games on the PTB. His power seemed like a design mistake to me then, so I didn't buy him.
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Oni didn't need the 15% speed and 20% turn rate buffs for 2v8, but it would absolutely be a mistake to fundamentally nerf how his power works when Legion is the problematic factor here. Nerf Oni and you just pair him with Nurse, Blight or Wesker and have the same frustrations.
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@Nomade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926445#Comment_3926445
they didnt do enough because we ended up with a slug meta as a result to perk and hook nerfs and insanely powerful survivor perks.
are these insanely powerful survivor perks in the room with us right now
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get parried
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0.65 does not require "frame perfect timing" to get a grab at a pallet. You can't actually believe the game should be modified to balance around 100ms+ ping players.
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An autoaim hitscan ability taking an entire health state is never going to be fun to play against. It's a huge payoff for doing literally the barest minimum conceivable. There's no skill expression or real interaction, it's just whether LOS was maintained long enough for someone to click a mouse or press a button. Throwing a super charged version of scamper on top of that and giving him a shorter fatigue on cancel than literally every other similar killer is also just never going to be enjoyable to play against especially since they completely nullify the supposed weakness of the grab attack, which is that it can't down on its own. Well, it doesn't need to since it just puts you immediately in range for the follow up M1.
The only reason they're drip feeding the nerfs is because it's a new licensed chapter that they still want to sell. If they actually cared about the gameplay experience he would have released much weaker as a trade for being so easy to play. Well, TBH, if they cared about the gameplay experience he would have released with an entirely different power.
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They didn't change brown. Common was brown before and after this change.
They removed yellow from Uncommon, downshifted green to Uncommon and added the blue for Rare.
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@Leon_Loves_Cheryl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923904#Comment_3923904
The price he has to pay for having an easy injure is that he can't down you with it. Your entire argument is based on your feeling that you want to have two health states against every killer. It's good game design that some killers shake this paradigm up. Your rhetoric is flawed because it's purely based on the fact that you "fundamentally" feel like having two health states should always be the "default".
The funny thing is, it's not even like Kaneki can ignore a full health state. You ARE safer. He has to pounce on you and chomp you, yes it is easy but you get a speed boost to go somewhere else while he's crashing out. So yes, there are in fact benefits to being full HP against Kaneki if you're working on a generator in a risky area, for example (few pallets/windows, short loops, etc.)
If it needs to be hitscan it shouldn't take a health state
Then what's the point? I swear, some suggestions I read on here are ridiculous. Yeah just make Demogorgon's pounce not damage you. Yeah let's just suggest things that completely ruin the game. He can't DOWN you with the power, why do you want to be invulnerable? As I said earlier, it's good game design to make killers that spice up the two health states mechanic. You're basing your argument purely off of your feeling that you should always have two health states and that's not the case because the game is not that boring. Imagine if Exposed didn't exist. Mechanics (and killers) like this exist to spice up the flow. DBD is successful because it isn't always predictable.
The enraged vault speed modifier should also be entirely removed
I went on about this already up above so I'm not going to engage with this part of your comment. TL:DR nerfing the enraged vault would give people no reason to use Ghoul over Wesker. Read above for the explanation.
These are some pretty bad faith arguments. Not being able to down with it isn't a price, and really isn't pertinent to the point I was making. A hit scan that takes a health state just isn't healthy for the game, whether or not it downs. Your next point also doesn't make a lot of sense because regardless of how free the hit from Ghoul's power is, he still DOES take two hits to down. It seems like you're trying to draw a comparison here that doesn't fit. You even acknowledge that in the next sentence so not sure why you didn't just edit that tangent out.
The next one you make is especially egregious. Demogorgon's Shred isn't a hitscan. The power not being able to down is, again, beside the point - but also doesn't really have anything to do with "invulnerability". You then repeat that one hit downs are good game design despite neither Demo nor Ghoul falling into that category. You're using a lot of formatting to insist that I'm being emotional about this, unclear where you're drawing this conclusion from.
Your above explanation on the enraged vault is just that you feel it's fine, which really isn't conclusive or convincing evidence. We have previous killers who have had similar functions on their powers that have had to have them toned back. Ghoul's enraged vault is stronger than any set precedent, all of which had to be nerfed.
So, sorry you want to get emotional about it and project that on me because it's a killer you enjoy playing. I am just looking at how other killers function and the balance changes that have needed to be made on them over time and noting that Ghoul has the same issues, only exacerbated because the hitscan power has even less room for counterplay and interaction. That's just facts.
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Personally, no nerf will be enough as long as he has a hitscan ability that takes a health state. It's unhealthy for the game on the most basic, conceptual level. The comparisons to Legion or Nurse are frankly not even close to how he functions when he can get the hit on you if he can see even a pixel of your hitbox in the split second it takes for him to click on it. If it needs to be hitscan it shouldn't take a health state, or have a lot of restrictions on when it can do that in the same way Nemmy's whip needs to infect targets before it can take a health state. The enraged vault speed modifier should also be entirely removed, and it shouldn't trigger Bamboozle (a lesson I thought we learned with Wesker but I guess not).
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Instead of focusing on Botany specifically, I think they need to rework the UI a little to make perks and status effects more apparent. They could spread the survivor names out further to give space for perk and status icons to appear when they are active. Being able to review perks and status effects in the pause screen with a mouse-over the same way you currently can for your own perks would also be a great move.
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The word opinion doing a lot of heavy lifting here.
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I agree with all this but especially having the quest variety. It's strange, too, because the new system of being able to work on multiple quests simultaneously makes these less "throwing the game", meaning most people would be happier to engage with them. Like, before I'd bring Shiny Coins to open 4 chests in a single match (even though it wasn't necessary to do them all at once) just so I could get through it and do the next challenge. But no you could just open 1 when you get the chance and not have to seek them out because you're still doing the generator and healing quests at the same time.
I'll especially miss glyphs, but I guess they can't figure out a way to implement them without inundating every match with every single type of active glyph quest all the time.
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It's extremely frustrating trying to play him right now. Prior to this patch I wasn't having any issues around corners and rarely bumped walls. Now it feels like trying to Demon Strike around a corner immediately snaps me 90 degrees and smacks the wall.
IMO he's unplayable right now. I just P100'd him and I guess I have to put him on the shelf.
I hope they revert the 8.7.0 changes.
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I'm also pretty disappointed that they are backtracking on this. It would make their job creating and balance perks easier, and would cause less player confusion since they wouldn't run into survivors who are legitimately faster than them, among other examples.
Wonder what the breaking point was.
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Sloppy is for hit and run. If you want to slow healing after an unhook, try using Gift of Pain and/or Leverage.
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Not saying you're wrong, but this should really be one of their lowest priorities considering the state of the game.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797330#Comment_3797330
I mean, you are doing it in chase?
Leveraging line of sight and stopping to let a beam pass over you are absolutely things you're able to do in chase, and absolutely things you should be doing in chase. Otherwise you're just letting her injure you for no effort, you really should not be assuming you're powerless to prevent scans in chase.
That's the part of her that's engaging. The in-chase counterplay, which is both meaningful and extremely viable to do.
In chase you're just making the choice of taking the hit from her or from the drone. Most loops DON'T offer line of sight blocks for the scan, and her invisible, variable speed means you're not going to have the opportunity to stop for the beams and still loop.
That's not engaging or meaningful. It's a lose-lose.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797281#Comment_3797281
Genuine question, I'm asking this in good faith: If the skill expression of actively dodging drone beams isn't engaging, what exactly could be for her?
And if dodging drone beams isn't engaging, but dodging other killer powers is, what's the difference?
But when are you really dodging it? If you are on a generator you don't have to. If you're in chase with her you won't be able to. Currently it's only when you're approaching an objective or leaving one, you just have to play an annoying game of red light green light. I don't think her current power has the built-in levers that would make it engaging, it's just not well designed enough. During her PTB the only part of playing against her I thought was interesting was the little mini game you get for disabling the drones, but doing that is so pointless I can't imagine how they could rework the power to make that more prominent in a way that matters.
Dodging other killer's powers is generally a direct interaction with the killer. The drone is just a prop. Even other trap setting killers like Trapper, Hag and Nightmare require killer input to truly benefit from their traps. The drone can just take a health state in a way that doesn't offer too much counterplay outside of the red light green light since you can't remove the scan progress. There really isn't a lot of choice when trying to play against her power, which makes the gameplay very dull.
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It may be an unpopular opinion, but I think if something is not fun or engaging it should not be strong.
She should have never gotten the Haste or Hindered in the first place. I'm glad the Haste will be gone gone, and we'll see how the 5% Hindered feels when this hits PTB. I don't think she should get "compensation buffs" because they undid a mistake.
Not sure what the Drone changes are really doing but as long as the scan progress isn't reversible or removable it's probably still not enough to make people enjoy playing against her, honestly. If you lost some scan progress whenever you disabled a drone maybe it would feel more like a mini-game.
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My main issue with this change is that it isn't accompanied by buffing other perks to block aura reading. I was really hoping that when they touched on Distortion they would also add aura reading blocking to other "stealthy" perks like Poised, Dance with Me, Deception etc. But they seem to have gone in another direction with Poised so that seems extra unlikely now.
I completely agree the sheer amount of aura reading, especially with how powerful it is in some cases like Weave Attunement like you pointed out, that the Distortion change is an unhealthy one. To me, Distortion's best value was knowing when your aura was being read. 2v8 had a status effect that showed you when you were revealed, and while I don't think I would like that in the main game mode at this point I feel like they need to consider it.
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I prefer this, honestly. Mori being a base function is going to be easier for new players to pick up. And personally I don't mind Offerings being less impactful to the game overall. I think they should stick with bloodpoints or some minor map alterations, like spawn locations for basement, hatch or survivors.
Your suggestions would all be extremely unpalatable to me. Being able to add and remove pallets when map consistency is one of the worst parts of the game would only be abuseable. Imagine being brought to The Game by a SWF and they add 3 to 6 pallets to it. Or having a SWF bring 4 of the randomization offerings and now you've got Agitation, Predator, Insidious and Monstrous Shrine. At best, I think an Offering that randomizes your own perks would be fun as a challenge but being able to mess with other's builds would be a nightmare.
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Do they not stack? My assumption would be that it stacks like other Haste movement speed boosts currently do on Live, so using Babysitter would give the unhooked survivor 14% faster.
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My friend who only plays survivor on PS4 and refuses to enable crossplay has similar issues. Though, without the beer.
I'm not really sure what you expect them to "do better" about it. The only levers I can think of they control there are Dailies and matchmaking accuracy. I already get Killer dailies 90% of the time so I'm pretty sure they're prioritized, and I'd rather matchmaking not get any less inaccurate.
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It's just about cues. Her lullaby radius cannot be altered, you know when she's around. There's an audio cue when she begins a hatchet wind up, and another when it's fully charged.
Deathslinger has a 24m TR, which honestly is almost always reduced to 16m. There's an audio cue for him ADS but it's only audible when you're close enough to get melee'd, so it's not helpful. And since he can fire immediately you don't know he's about to shoot, there's just the gunfire noise after he does.
Sure, there are a lot of hatchet hits that seem unfair. But overall playing against Huntress is way more fun than against Deathslinger because you're given a lot more information and feel like you can do something about it. Versing Slinger is a lot like versing Spirit to me, what I do as survivor doesn't really matter I just have to hope they mess up a lot.
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Plague is my favorite to play, but I'm not sure I have any useful advice for this. Sometimes I will think I hit someone and they cough/make disgusted noises but not become infected. But that's very rare for me, i can see how it would be game ruining if it happened often.
I'm not gonna lie and say she's particularly strong but I enjoy playing her, but hitting with the puke isn't a common issue in my games. I'm gonna think others here are right and this is rooted in a ping or hit validation problem and not something you can just play differently to fix.
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New...?
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Personally I don't think Moris or Keys (in the hatch sense) should be usable until after 9 minutes in to the match. Or whatever time the silver Gatekeeper emblem checks for. Stops either from making the game too short, doesn't need to make and new hoops to jump through to use them.
Also the "you have no idea how tunneling and mori'ing one survivor loses pressure for the killer" argument is the best troll nonsense I've seen in weeks.
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@CorneliusCloud said:
Remove Heartbeat. That would be a welcomed alternative for Monitor & Abuse.
Just straight up remove the Terror radius permanently?
Hello??
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My only problem with Solidarity is that it's very situational, and even when it comes up the effect might just not be enough to change any outcomes.
I don't really think they should buff the numbers or give it extra gameplay functionality, but an alternative incentive like gaining Survival bloodpoints alongside the regular Altruism blood points would make me feel better about running it.
As it is, I'd rather just take WGLF for dealing with slugs and try to rely on SB or DH if I'm injured and the killer comes back.
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This only took me one try (and I don't have that much Blight play time), and I'd say the turning add-ons really help. It's a little map dependant, too much or too little clutter and you'll have a harder time.
But if you really can't hit the lethal rushes, the only thing that's really going to help is practice. Once you can identify situations where it's an easy hit you'll be able to rack up the lethal rush hits for this challenge.