Ashreave
Ashreave
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- Ashreave
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In all seriousness though seeing the characters I love defaced so carelessly like this is profoundly depressing and I don't have the heart to play the game while things are this way. I'm going to uninstall it and re-install Dark Souls...Dark Souls would never betray me like this.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Yes... Expose your grievances. QA wants to know.... Yes. yes, perfect....
Press X to doubt.
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Also why did they get rid of Ace's sketchiness and weak chin and replace it with Anime Eyes? That skeeviness was not a case of bad modelling it was a conscious artistic choice! Can I just say whoever made these decisions? Artistically you are boring and repetitive and presumptuous and you probably got your job as a result of nepotism. You University Art Teacher was right to tell you the Manga style was hurting your art and that your pictures of the same pretty women were all soulless. Because beauty is not perfection beauty is a cultivated tight rope between perfection and imperfection and you have failed spectacularly to uphold that balance. Now kindly install an option to go back to playing with the superior old designs so I can go back to not recoiling in revulsion everytime I see what your callous disregard for the characters has done to them
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And why does Feng's fringe swallow her eyes? Why did they give her such a strong jaw line when it's obvious the heartshape face was the appeal? Why did they give Yui of all people a rounder face? Why is Jake rocking Leon Kennedy levels of silky hair? Whose decision was any of this utter nonsense? And how can I insentivise BHVR to cease it?
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But ya'll are missing the main point which is that the character designs were fine and whoever decided to change then so drastically should not have been encouraged so much to do whatever they wanted with established characters. Like they even changed Yui's face and she ain't even that old...giving her chubby cheeks was a terrible design decision by the way. It's like they did not even try to keep the original flavour of the characters Jake looks like he's never even been outside let alone chosen nature over people.
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My dad gets the cat to click agree cause it's not recognised as a person under law.
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@TacitusKilgore said:
They can change whatever the hell they please. Stated direclty in the EULA you agreed to, BHVR holds the rights to remove, update, or change any cosmetic in the game, and you are not liable to a refund if you dislike these changes. Shoulda read the EULA my man.
Actually under Australian law I could probably supersede that as unlawful. Espeacially given most online "agreements" are made after purchase and therefore are not actually legally binding. But that's beside the point. When the character models look hideous and the designers need to be shamed. You can have your silky haired Tumblr Jake if you must but at least give me the default skins as a "classic" option or something. Feng has gone from fashionista to gremlin Jake has been possessed by an E-Boy Ace has had Anime And Silicone injected into his eyes. Nea's best hair no longer looks any good, Yui looks like she's taken drugs...I could go on.
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Or at the very least vandalism.
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I mean...camping is technically a viable strategy if the survivors fall for it. It's a very boring strategy and it means losing out on certain kinds of BP. But if they win they are technically not bad at playing. Plus in a 1v4 scenario making the survivors come to you is technically on the bear face of things a logical thing to do.
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@Dito175 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2393711#Comment_2393711
But from what I know this isn't directly confirmed, devs said in a stream a few years ago that there's only one version of a person in the realm at a time, maybe the entity takes another claudette when the current one goes to the void per example.
Personally I prefer the idea that the Fog is limited in who it can actually get it's hands on. Because if the Entity could just grab anyone it kinda defeats the purpose of the parallels between a lot of the killers and survivors. I like to think the Entity is a conceptual creature and it has to work backwards from it's base concepts in order to interfere with reality. Which is why it's so based in spooky horror symbolism. It understands survival and shedding blood and tragedy and death, hunter and hunted, predator and prey,the dichotomy of the woods and the campfire...When it comes to Death and Taxes it's got a better handle on the former than the latter. There's a tendency in horror to just make the monster stupidly all powerful as the sequels role in and I fear DBD is kinda falling to that temptation.
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@Keezo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2366319#Comment_2366319
losing memories when escaping makes sense, but dying is just dumb
Losing memories when escaping makes less sense to me espeacially when the original lore before the archives seemed to imply survivors don't remember what the Entity does to them when it drags them up into itself. Losing memories when dying could just be an extension of that disassociation. Losing memories when escaping makes zero sense. But from both a horror perspective and a character perspective keeping the memories in both cases is the superior option.
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@Dito175 said:
Almost every observer's lore, at this point it looks like I'm reading a fanfic instead official lore.
They should hire the storyteller who wrote Oddfellows I liked that authors interpretation of things. Well except for their take on survivors I prefer the idea the survivors get along. But their ideas for the Entity being kinda bad at understanding how to house and care for people and the way they portrayed scavenging? That was great. As were their versions of Evan, Philip, Max and Sally. I also think they should hire the author who made First One, Last One sure it's a survivor/killer shipping fic which obviously is not canon, but the implication that hope is what keeps not only survivors but killers trapped? Genius! Much more interesting and poignant than the idea that there is literally no escape. The portrayal of the Entity as something that makes a lot of promises but does not actually keep any of them just feeding off your own desperation for what it tells you to be true was also really clever. I also liked Dwight in that fic he came off as someone who manipulated people but in a way that brought out the best in them. Which is perhaps a better interpretation of him than the fandom usually gives him. As a Haibane Renmei fan I also liked the pillars of light that signified survivors and killers disappearing from the Entities realm. Made it feel like the Entities Realm literally was a form of hell or purgatory. Kinda annoyed they just go back to the real world in at the end of that fic because of that association but you know it's a shipping fic so I guess the romance comes before the theological implications sadly. But I digress, basically I'm saying there's a lot of fanfiction out there with better interpretations of DBD lore than actual DBD lore. I hate the SCP foundation levels of convoluted they've gone with espeacially when the simplicity of the original concept was what appealed to me.
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@BingBongMan said:
There are multiple versions of every killer in the realms.
The multiverse is a thing in DBD, so it would naturally make sense for the entity to pluck multiple of the same useful killer.
Personally I prefer the idea there's one of each, for story telling reasons plus that way it implies that when a killer or survivor gets a new outfit they might unknowingly be interfering with or drawing on alternate versions of themselves that are still free. Potentially drawing those versions to the fogs attention and damning them. I like the idea that the reason The Entity only chooses certain individuals is it can only see certain individuals. Essentially the Entity is like a cat it has zero object permanence.
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If I was in charge of canon. The survivors would remember every trial they go into vividly perhaps even more vividly than a person in the real world who experienced the same trauma. The cosmetics would be explained by foraging in the Entities realm outside of trials and the fact the outfits seem to come from survivors memories or mythological archetype would be a result of the Entities meta nature. The point where a survivor gets "voided" would be a natural result of when they lose all hope of breaking the cycle or finding a way out. I'd make it so that the Entity selects people it believes will last for a long time. Though it's criteria for telling this would be left intentionally ambitious. Overall I'd focus first on Survival Horror, then on Psychological Horror and THEN on Lovecraftian Horror. The mechanics and nature of The Entity would be the thing I'd prioritise least.
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I don't mean overcome the trials the trials are not the problem well they are, but they are not. The trials are just a vehicle for the suffering. Like a slasher in a slasher flick, they are just a vessel to inflict suffering. Seeing how people respond under pressure is half the fun of horror it's not whether you win or lose it's how you play the game and memory loss just renders it all moot. As to your other point what your describing is story gameplay segregation. But story gameplay segregation is a spectrum and adding memory loss does not really seem like a necessary example of it. If anything they are trying too hard to tie the two together with the memory loss example but ironically making the gap wider. Because the survivors DON'T act like they have no memory because they are played by players who do.
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I also think that being stuck in a endlessly repeating hell is not scary, if you don't remember it. It's tragic sure but it's not horrorifying. They essentially defanged their own premise.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2368643#Comment_2368643
I mean I don't get excited over chess either, it's entirely designed around being predictable. The different effects each piece has is cool, but given how small and sanitized the game-board is, kind of makes it boring.
But, what is it about these characters you can't get attached to? They simply remember nothing of the Trials (well, usually, anyway). And there's a huge gaping Void of possibility outside of them. The Entity's Realm is literally a crucible of creation.
Characters are more interesting when they suffer hardships and overcome them. You can't overcome what you can't remember.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2368325#Comment_2368325
Yeah, I typically focus on the gameplay as well. Not that I wouldn't rifle through the lore once in a while.
Not really sure how you both do it. Games without characters or stories to get attached to are just kinda empty. It's not that I don't play them sometimes but there's no passion or loyalty to such things. It'd be like getting exited over chess.
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Oh and the snake that died in the first movie. Poor thing.
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@Shaped said:
I wouldn't call it dumb but I never found the story in dbd interesting. Backstories of the characters, realm etc.
It is all about the gameplay to me.
Personally while I like the gameplay I would not be that invested if I did not like the characters. I mean Friday the 13th made a game with a similar premise and you don't see me rushing off to play it. Cause nobody cared about Friday the Thirteenths survivors in the actual movie's and I'm not about to start just cause they exist in a video game adaption. The only "survivor" I stan in that series is the first girl that got killed in the original movie. Everyone else can take an ice pick to the skull and a ginger cat scare to the face. Dead By Daylight drew me in cause it's basically Overwatch but with Slashers and Final "Girls" though inexplicably lazier which should not be possible given, Blizzard has Bobby Kotick eating up it's budget and BHVR does not. Incidentally they really need to edit like the vast majority of the killer add ons and the typos/google translate Resident Evil lore tidbits, just saying.
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I dislike that it feels like it prioritises the entity itself over the characters we actually play as. I'm of the belief that Stephen King was right when he said that nothing actually presented in universe about a monster is as scary as what we imagine. I also view Dead By Daylight like a Heroshooter like Overwatch so to me the most interesting aspect is the characters. I like the initial non story about a rag tag group of misfits learning to get by and support one another in what amounts to literal hell. I don't like all the convoluted John Dies At The End multiverse stuff. I'm okay with alittle bit of it like the scene with the teens fighting bugs with laser swords was entertaining but I feel like the Observer actually talking about alternate universes and the idea that everything that exists has been dreamed somewhere is on the nose. The ideas themselves are not necessarily what I have an issue with the way the graceless way in which it's laid out very much annoys me. What's not said is often more valuable than what is said and the memory loss thing feels like a symptom of a tendency to over explain.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2367972#Comment_2367972
Once again then, why do you care? If you just want simplicity, don't read the damn thing. It's a pit fight of Horror Icons against a cast of Survivors.
Why wouldn't I care? I play as these characters I imagine their struggles I pay for their cosmetics, I grind to make them stronger and more versatile. The idea that I should just let a poorly written canon story with them in it slide because fanfiction exists is ludicrous. Espeacially when ultimately the people most likely to care about or digest the lore are the people who will write said fanfiction. Meaning this convoluted canon will inevitably taint those stories too. WoW's story post-cataclysm annoys me, Dragon Age's story post Origins annoys me, Harry Potter from Order of The Phoenix onwards annoys me. Five Nights At Freddy's Lore Post The Third Game Annoys me. Why should Dead By Daylight be protected from my criticism? Because you enjoy it? I think not.
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Also I would not worry as game developers it's statistically unlikely they are actually having fun. That's like being a street rat in the industrial revolution and having fun.
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My point is it's a dumb story and they already had a much neater simpler story that did not look like babies first postmodernism.
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You are only proving my point about lore bloat.
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I mean your explanation of their explanation feels unnecessary to me. Your making up problems that don't necessarily exist. Plenty of people were fine with the premise before the memory loss. Also all survivors are "Final Girls" meaning every single one of them has the potential to make it to the end of the horror movie. Whether you like it or not they ARE already by their very nature action survivors.
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@Salty_Pearl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2366319#Comment_2366319
100% agree, with the Archives, they have been contradicted A LOT of the old lore and it's very upsetting. Take Legion and Nurse's logs for example, they completely contradict what actually happened in their backstory. As a Plague Main, I am happy that they didn't change too much of Plague's old lore.
Yeah the archives suck. I really wish the devs would take the attachment people had to the initial premise more seriously.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2367370#Comment_2367370
I mean, Teachable Perks are quite a blatant nod towards Survivors being able to "share" knowledge. Most games try to separate their systems from their "Universe", but that's a missed opportunity and removes the Player from the game. BHVR seems to be trying to integrate the core multiplayer experience in with their Lore.
The "memory loss" is there as it's describing why the Survivors have not yet gone insane and just started Killing themselves each match (heh, sometimes apparently "memories" do get through though), you've got multiple realities and time fuckery explaining variations and duplications of Survivors in match and how they get licenses sourced into the game.
It's not that DBD is based on a story, it's that DBD is the story.
My point is that, it's an unnecessary story. At least in part, they don't need to try and explain the survivors not going insane, humans can cope with a lot, they don't need to explain the survivor duplication no one considered that canon until they tried to bring it up. Because it's not really as interesting as survivors as individuals. Their priorities are out of whack it reminds me of the Five Nights at Freddie's problem where the lore is so bloated, it's objectively worse than the initial premise from the first game. In the same way the original premise in Baker's journals is much neater and stronger foundationally than the Observer's bloated mess. Explaining everything is not always a good thing.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2366777#Comment_2366777
Oh, okay, yeah, then sweet.
Oh and as for your suggestion of fanfiction...I have such little respect for the memory loss plotpoint that even acknowledging it enough to "fix" it is anathema to me. Besides without an appealing canon foundation there is no motive for fanfiction.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I don't read the Lore all that much, but:
The cultist subplot can be used for more Survivors with supernatural seeming perks that interact with the Trial in mystical seeming ways without having to use some tripe like shaman characters all the time. (The Wild Hunt is also probably trademarked by The Witcher series)
Memory loss and stagnation are what is described as default, doesn't mean that the process itself isn't flawed, how else do Survivors learn other teachables and acquire bloodpoints?
Go write some fanfic about Survivors steadily retaining some core Memory with another Survivor that sparks each time they're in a Trial together or something.
They are setting a foundation to be expanded upon, which does take time.
The Wild Hunt is a real mythological phenomenon it literally cannot be trademarked, it's public domain.
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Note when I say "New" I mostly mean "stuff that contradicts the initial premise as described in Baker's journals." It was a perfectly good initial premise. Also the black robed cultist stuff and their vague but present seeming connection to the Entity cause if I had a dollar for everytime an unnecessary cultist subplot interfered with taking an Eldritch Monster seriously I'd be very very rich. Philip as punisher was mostly just a jokey way of saying "more backstory for killers and survivors good, too much wank about multiversal illuminati memory wiping cultist shenanigans? Bad" sorry if that was not clear. Like trust me you think the segment with the teens fighting bug monsters with laser swords is cool but that kinda lore is mostly just fat and you should trim it so your story and lore don't become diabetic. Well actually that's a bad example that encounter as a throw away experience it actually pretty neat storytelling. But it feels like a symptom of a bigger problem of overestimating how much the Entities nature truly needs to be explained and underestimating that the characters are a bigger drawing point. Eldritch Monsters lose their impact the more we know and I think the decision to include that memory loss tidbit shows confused priorities. It's fun to speculate about the Entity it's not necessarily fun to KNOW. In the same way it's more fun to know about the characters we plays as and it's more fun if we believe that we have a shared or parallel experience with those characters something the memory loss plot thread interfere's with.
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
Where have you found this new lore?
Mostly the rift and the newer survivors and killers backgrounds.
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To expand on the cultist subplot complaint cultists are a red herring you use in lovecraftian fiction to hide the monster and supernatural aspects until the very last second. They have precisely zero point in a story where we've already seen the monster. The Hole is dumb because the Entity is already a vague and obscure name if you were going to chose a mythological name for the Entity that Elodie's could research and discover then I've got one for you: The Wild Hunt. There's your occult name. Much more believable. The memory loss is dumb because it causes gameplay and story segregation. The players will connect more with a version of the survivors that learn and grow and adapt to the trials like they do. Not ones who remain static. Though it is also dumb if you ever want to adapt Dead By Daylight to an alternative medium too. I mean you might think you can't do that with what you had initially but you'd be surprised what a great slice of life story being trapped in a repetitive purgatory could be. Memory loss is a pretty cheap storytelling tool and should only be really used if your absolutely certain you don't need your characters to be well...characters. And just because your characters don't get to do much in game proper that's not necessarily a sign you DON'T need them to be characters. The Survivors are more appealing if they work together and adapt to the Trials rather than being wiped of their potential to grow. I could go on. I don't know who is in charge of the storytelling and lore at BHVR but I know you need to get an editor or something to whack you on the nose with a rolled up newspaper to keep those audience alienating premises underwraps.
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@Dito175 said:
Survivors don't lose memories after the trials, I HATED when they introduced this in the archives. It just take away every opportunity of story progression and it also contradicts old lore.
Agreed. This 100% is going in the fanon discontinuity section for me. It makes things completely pointless and uninteresting and I'm fairly certain the people writing the current lore need to read more community based fanfiction. To get a better idea of the kind of stuff we want to see. Cause memory loss completely ruins the survivors as characters.
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Yeah he'd fit right in.
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@GrimoireWeiss said:
Because people buy it. I've seen tons of Neas using it already. Why make a Jeff or Jake skin when you can just make another Nea or Meg one and sell it way more?
Because it's a logical fallacy to assume that the survivors themselves are popular. When most of their original outfits make them look dumb and some of their back stories have not even seen an editor and beginning perk wise neither Meg nor Nea is the most advantageous. It's way more likely that the reason they are popular is BECAUSE they have more available outfits.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2364468#Comment_2364468
Lol, your rank is showing.
Your self importance based on a useless set of skills that have no real life application and will ultimately just make you unhappy given an Asymmetric "MOBA" (more like MOKA really) as a balanced competitive experience is an irreconcilable pipe dream is showing.
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@glitchboi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2364517#Comment_2364517
Nah people play her mainly because of No0b3.
Really cause I play her cause she and Feng have the best cosmetics. Nothing to do with whoever that is. Only DBD content creators I watch are Deadgirljimmie and Monto and even then I liked Feng and Nea before I knew Deadgirljimmie existed. So her preference for those two and Cheryl is coincidence.
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@glitchboi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2364463#Comment_2364463
To be fair, Nea does have a lot of mains. Ez cash money $$
Jeff don't get a lot of cosmetics because not many people play him.
I think this may be a chicken or egg thing. Cause it's not like Nea's base look is THAT good.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2363945#Comment_2363945
Nurse doesn't need an addon pass. She needs an entire power rework like old freddy to new freddy.
Her teleportation power is fine, it's all the excessive drawbacks that come with it that need a rework. Compared to other newer killers with similar cool downs or stuns on their signature abilities she's massively handicapped.
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@WexlerWendigo said:
Money
Okay but it's not like Nea is the only survivor anyone plays and if she is it's probably because BHVR refuses to give outfits to anyone else.
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@ShinobuSK said:
Probably because one of them is really bad lol
It's the new one, old outfits fine.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
That would be brilliant! Imagine him getting downed and instead of screaming he shouts "It's okay! That was my mistake!"
Bloody brilliant idea! 👍
Omg yes!
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@[Deleted User] said:
Sure, but I like to think that it can get better at using its resources.
It's obvious The Entity has some form of pattern recognition, otherwise, how would it know that Humans create emotion? It could be Eldritch to the point where it's a cosmic constant, and incapable of changing, and that is one method to take.
But it could also be approached that over time from The Entity's perspective, it develops different ways of generating emotional stimuli, and maintaining its stock. In-universe The Entity simply appears of a random temperament, as being able to reach across time in any direction scatters its developmental mindset, but it is actively evolving in a sequential manner from its own perspective.
To the point where it's completely self-sustained in it's own "universe".
Ooh I like this take.
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@DwarvenTavern said:
No.
This isn't out of negativity. I love him, he was amazing and I grew up watching him.
I'd hate seeing him being tortured in this actual hell. He doesn't deserve that.
But, your post was pretty funny haha
He does not have to be an exact carbon copy he could just be an Australian true crime novelist with a doctorate in psych who has the same passion Irwin had for animals but for serial killers.
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@Snowbawlzzz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2364065#Comment_2364065
It's impossible to kill off a survivor, they die every day and come back the next.
Someone has not read the lore.
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It affects my inner balance.
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@TapeKnot said:
From what I understand The Entity feeds off of many emotions, not exclusively hope. It could be that these trials are the best way to evoke as many strong emotions as possible. And as they wipe a survivor's memory clean after each trial, The Entity are aware that these emotions are renewable and tries to milk as many emotions as possible from survivors before getting rid of them.
I mean what if the Entity does not actually WANT to break them? And the whole point of spiriting away survivors and killers is it's trying to figure out how to make a sustainable food source. If the Entity feeds on emotion it does not seem like a big leap to assume it's origins are if not human than at least close to human. Perhaps it was born from the blood and emotions spilt during hunting and it seeks to replicate that ritualistic process in it's own realm because the original human like race that birthed it went silent. It's realm is sucky and repetitive cause it's not inherently supposed to be managing it's own realm it's supposed to be naturally feeding off real world bloodshed. But it does not trust that as a food source because it's been abandoned by it's past worshippers. This The Entities realm is the Entities attempt to ensure it controls it's food source. But because it's a conceptual creature it does not really understand how to take care of humans, initially it assumed they naturally filled the role of hunter and hunted but the fact survivors break eventually and killers can be belligerent made it realise that was not the case. It mostly tries to get around this by brute forcing it. But Mori's are an incentive for more bloodthirsty killers as are the symbolic parallels between a lot of survivors and killers. It finds it easier to bribe and control killers cause a lot of it's assumptions about them are correct it finds it more difficult with survivors cause it finds it difficult to conceive that surviving trials is not it's own reward. It understands that humans possess the will to stay alive but it does not comprehend the whole "living rather than surviving thing". Also all the cosmetic outfits and map passes are it gradually improving it's ability to maintain it's realm and replicate the real world. Also the Ravens are the only non-zombie looking animals cause it's intimately familiar with Ravens cause they are always following bloodshed like itself. It's obsession with making things "fair" is also it actively adjusting strategies to make the trials more optimised but ultimately it still has no idea what it's doing.
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@FrndlyChnswSalzmn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2363727#Comment_2363727
There's a huge gulf between 'not enough points' and 'no need for points'. I honestly can't say I've ever felt like BP was hard to get; but I also don't play Survivor much and that seems to be the side that complains about too little BP the most, which is amusing considering they get to keep their crap if they escape with it, whereas Killers don't.
Killers gain more blood points easier...but they also have stupidly large bloodweb after they reach 50 so it kinda balances out. The game is still Grindy even with double BP though so if they made double bp the new default and did even more for holidays they likely would not lose much of anything.
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When they revealed how bad and inconsistent the new character designs for survivors are I considered it. Also if they ever canonically kill off any of the survivors. I'm going to be very much disaffected by the lore, this lot are gonna make it somehow and if they don't I'm no longer invested. This game is like 30% asethetic, 30% grind, 30 % adrenaline and 10% Story that people secretly want to imagine for themselves rather than having BHVR come in and try to tell it.
I did also play Nurse once and that made me want to kill myself. Like I can't believe people use her competitively she's mind numbingly slow and I'm convinced her add ons do nothing.