Why Killers Tunnel, Slug and Camp.
I know as a solo survivor it must be annoying and seem unbalanced and unfair but you have to understand what is possible as survivor. Everyone knows solo survivor is the hardest role, especially with bad randoms. We have all been there.
If you choose to play in a swf (Survive With Friends) then at first glance it might not seem like a problem, sounds em fun and probably is to you. Being on a mic and doing silly things looks fun, I have also watched hours of dbd content and I really enjoy the stupid stuff you can do.
Sadly that is only one side, the other is using perks to bully the killer. Even that is not the worst part, bully squads don't sometimes complete the generators so in a tiny way it could be beneficial.
The fowl perks and items that survivors can use to generally make this game unplayable is why swf are hated among the killer community. Using strong toolboxes to make it impossible for killer to hook, especially when the killer deserves the hook from playing well. Using perks like Power Struggle to make it impossible for killers to pick up from a pallet. These are the survivors that killers go against and is the reason why killers do not take any chances.
Dbd might seem like a party game for survivors and it probably is with all the fun stuff you can do, sadly it is not the same for killer. One game a chill team and the next is a fully meta (Powerful perks) swf. Killers simply can't take a chance, until 2v8 killers have not had anyone to play with so it always been playing to win because who doesn't want to see how far they could go.
One more thing to consider before hating the way killers play, in a 4 man swf it is basically 16 perks vs 4 perks. I'm not going to complain but it can seem a little unfair so killers need to do all they can to win.
I know it is unfair, as a solo survivor player I have been tunneled out by a killer at 5 gens. It is miserable and you'll complain but go against one of those squads I mentioned and you see the difference.
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What does this have to do with SWF? People do all of this in solo. A good SWF pressures gens, this sabo nonesense is the type of player you dread getting in solo.
Everybody knows why killers do this, it's moreso it being unfun to play against and because of that people want it removed from the game.
Also note: you shouldn't be tunnelling at 5 gens, if you are tunnelling at 4-5 gens you just are objectively bad at killer.
I think most people who have played both sides for a decent amount of hours understand the difficulties of both sides. The difficulties of killer are not a well guarded secret, if you take the time to play even 10% of your matches as a killer you will get a feeling for the frustrations you can encounter on killer. In addition, I think anybody with a realistic view of the game does not fault a killer (even if it might be frustrating in the moment) for tunneling a survivor out at 2 gens, or for slugging because they have no time to pick up or see another opportunity for a kill, or for camping a hook in end game.
However, killers do not go into a game as a high tier killer and from 5 gens attempt to hard tunnel, slug an entire team, or camp a hook because of the possibility of a bully squad. The majority of the player base is solo, and if you play this game for a while you will know that. Even if every single survivor in the game was solo, these players would still play that way. Even during the extremely oppressive Overcharge + Eruption + Call of Brine meta, killers still played that way. That is because it is objectively the easiest and simultaneously the most efficient way of winning. All 3 of these tactics are generally even easier on high tier killers, which is why you see those killers more often than not doing them, often while running completely meta builds. These people just want to win every game and will choose to play that way in order to do so, and when they finally lose to a good SWF they are the same people that will say that survivor is too strong.
Even the term bully squad is loose, as everyone's definition of a bully squad is different. If you get flashlight saved once and later a survivor uses their gen-oriented toolbox to sabo a hook, does that mean it's a bully squad? Even if I call them one in the heat of the moment, personally I'd say no, it's just frustrating to deal with. As much as that killer deserved that down, the survivor made a good save. Power Struggle squads, Head On squads, etc, they are definitely bully squads, but often these players aren't even doing the objective and I find that even if a bit frustrating, once they make a mistake I can often snowball the game and win before they get 3 gens done. The most frustrating thing for me is not bully squads, as usually you can squeeze a win out of them. What's frustrating is going against an extremely skilled, coordinated SWF that is not messing around, especially on mid to low tier killers (of which I main).
In short, I understand when killers tunnel halfway through a game, or slug opportunistically, or camp in end game for example. But while I am a solo survivor, I also play a lot of killer (recently more and more as hard tunneling feels like it gets even more prevalent and the experience just gets worse) and have encountered extremely skilled, frustrating squads, yet I don't hard tunnel from 5 gens, try to slug an entire game, or camp a hook in a 3 gen all game, and I am still able to win about 70% of my games. Even on Ghost Face. And like I said, the actual "bully squads" are usually a joke, it's the genuinely skilled, serious players that are frustrating to face. And at the end of the day, even though I might get pissed off because I'm playing Ghost Face against a full meta skilled SWF, they won fair and square, and I could not get downs fast enough. So I do not have empathy for killers who are doing that.
I find it funny if survivor complain about Tunneling/Slugging/Camping because it’s the same, if they win = The killer is bad, if they lose= killer played unfair and it’s a skill issue. I mean I have the choice of hooking and activating the strongest and most common perks currently or slug, or I know everyone is around the hook so I can’t leave it. You could theoretically call tunneling the same as gen rushing since it’s basically rushing your objective as killer.
That is true, I think it's the same. Apart from the devs would not give killers a bunch of base-kit stuff to counter gen rushing 😅
Yeah people can do it in solo but there is a difference in the fact that in a SWF there are 4 strong sabo toolboxes, + 4 unbreakables. The problem is the coordination. A good SWF pressures gens, a great SWF priorites friends. Now I do agree having a sabo solo would punish and be dreadful as a solo survivor. In a SWF it is insanely strong.
There is a paradox isn't there. Of course removing tunneling would be good in theory, brings out the best in killers. By adding a bunch of basekit stuff for survivors because of tunneling makes it harder to win at high MMR. Which in turn makes killers tunnel more. Another problem is if you remove the basekit anti-tunnel properties, it would be easier for killers to tunnel. Also even though I mentioned it, tunneling at 5 gens I doubt is that common.
I disagree. There's no greater boon for me as killer than sabo teams. A smart team does the right gens at the right time. They 99 unimportant gens and wait for a key central gen to pop. They take chase at the right times based on hook states. They call out killer movement so teammates can prerun. Teams that are swarming around for saves end up injured and out of position, and if you know people are in a party you can often exploit their predictable altruism. I personally love these matches. Not only are they engaging but I almost always win.
Killers complain about "genrushing" but when surviviors engage with the killer instead they complain about that too. It feels more to me that people just don't like it when they get outplayed and they want something to blame for it. It's sabos, it's genrushing, it's SWF. Or maybe you just did badly?
The fowl perks and items that survivors can use to generally make this game unplayable is why swf are hated among the killer communityThis doesn't really have anything to do with tunneling, which SWFs have the easiest time countering. Also its not really unique to one side, sweatiness goes both ways and either is integral to the game or one of its biggest shortcomings, depending on your point of view.
Also, @GentlemanFridge the above quoted sentence immediately made me think of you.
Using strong toolboxes to make it impossible for killer to hook, especially when the killer deserves the hook from playing well.Why does the killer deserve the hook? Survivors don't deserve a gen just because they got a lot of progress on it and then hit with a regression.
It's also really difficult to make it 'impossible to hook'. More difficult, sure, but if hooking was always guaranteed and there was no possible interactivity, that would be pretty boring.
Using perks likePower Struggleto make it impossible for killers to pick up from a pallet.What does that have to do with tunneling? If a SWF is running this they can use it whether the killer is tunneling or not. And like the above post, if pickups where always safe less interactivity would make for a boring game.
One game a chill team and the next is a fully meta (Powerful perks) swf. Killers simply can't take a chanceAnd survivors don't know whether they'll be hitting a chill killer or a sweaty Nurse.
One more thing to consider before hating the way killers play, in a 4 man swf it is basically 16 perks vs 4 perks.Things can't be compared in isolation. Make gens take 30 seconds and survivors would dominate with zero perks, make them take three minutes and the killer wouldn't need any.
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As @pidgeon mentioned, its no secret why people tunnel anymore than why they gen rush. It's a highly effective strategy while also being incredibly straightforward, but its not very healthy for the game.
I just hook people. Unless you're worried about flashlights or pallet saves there's no real reason not to hook IMO. It's not that big a deal if a survivor has DS. I honestly called DS a troll perk because it gets trolling survivors killed more than it helps them.
This is such a bad take, it must be a troll. For survivors its a party game, so don't blame the killer for the way they play that murders fun. I want the killers to play well, I want them to have success for playing well. Getting tunneled off hook or slugged, or proximity camped until dead, just isn't fun. I don't care if they are strategically sound.
While these strategies exist the meta perks will always be second chance perks. Who care about the other 120 perks, they are irrelevant if they don't help you survive the killers behavior, note I did not say strategy. These behaviors feel like the same disfunctional crap that lead people to spawn camp in first person shooters. Its sadistic players not excellent players that use these strats.
I mean, MomoSeventh tunneled me at 5 gens on Hawkins - I don't know if you would classify him as a bad killer.
But yes, we all know why killers tunnel, slug, and proxy camp. It gets much more prevalent the higher you get in MMR.
I don't have issues with tunneling, slugging, proxy camping, or whatever else you can think of. The only issue I have had is to just own it, I remember versing a comp/winstreak player (I will not say their name) who just wouldn't own up to them tunneling for Remember Me value and outright claiming they two hooked everyone.
Like nah, you tunneled - own it.
Respectfully, I really don’t think it’s that deep. People tunnel often because it’s easier to win that way. People often pick Ghoul or Blight because it’s easier to win that way. People often pick perks like SB or Lithe because it’s easier to win that way. People don’t often pick Nurse or Judgment because it’s harder to win that way. People don’t often pick Weaving Spiders or No Mither because it’s harder to win that way.
People want to win easier. It’s really that simple.
My brother in the mist you are thinking too hard about this.
When survivors say they have a problem with tunneling, slugging, and camping, the bulk of them are reasonable people referring to the unreasonable playstyle of slugging and tunneling from match start right out the gate.
If you slug because of a sabo, most survivors don't mind. The only ones who do mind are bully squads, and their opinions are not valid as they are entering the game with the intent of being cruel to begin with.
If you tunnel because someone rushes you off hook to body block, most survivors don't mind you bodying them for it as they are abusing their protections for toxic or contrary purposes to the protection.
I'm not trying to flame you or anything so much as highlight that you are saying what most people already know. I'm a killer main, and I know it. Most survivors who are worth talking to know it, and much of the forums know it. There are the 'rulebook' survivors, sure, but most people treat those rules contextually. And most people do recognize bully squads will drive killers to do some cruel things in acts of frustration. Most survivors won't blame you for responding to poor sportsmanship with poor sportsmanship.
Its quite refreshing seeing survivors whos acknowledge killers fraustration if i understand correctly you are refering to killers slug or tunnel at 5 gens or when the game is almost already over for survivors i think its just becuz theyve been playing that way all along since they dont know that whether they will face an easy match where survivors make mistake and lead to huge snowball or normal where they can 2k or 8 hooks spread 4 out etc or a miserable match where at most you can get 1k with hard tunnel so they just play the way that they feel like the right play to play which is tunnel or slugging since it works best in these situation and some killers just dont really care that oh its 5 gens let just play a little more and dont tunnel they just want to quickly go next etc so in short they tunnelling doesnt mean they are mean maybe they is or maybe they just dont give af about anything and play the same way that theyve been playing all along so its hard to tell
It's fine if nobody agrees but just play a swf group using 4 Power Struggles or 4 Conviction and see the power of survivor for yourself. All you need to know is the devs do not balance with multiple survivors in mind, just really trying to buff solo queue which is not a problem but stuff like this needs to be looked into just a little bit.
One thing I will say, making it so where increasing MMR by using the emblem system will be great for both sides.